Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

> For the record, listmaster@ did not moderate you. I'm sorry if you felt > that you were being unfairly maligned, but this was addressed > previously: > https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/20141201002812.gj25...@teltox.donarmstrong.com I have been "moderated" by you (AFAIR) in the same way,

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

Le samedi, 4 novembre 2017, 01.39:31 h CET Scott Kitterman a écrit : > On November 3, 2017 9:09:31 PM EDT, Sam Hartman wrote: > > I think that Debian does need a decision making body of last resort. > > I personally think these communication skills are critical for such a > >

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

> The last time I was involved with an issue brought to the TC, it had > been brought after zero discussion between the person filing the bug > and the relevant team. Complaining to the TC about a bug that's been > dormant for years only a few days after resurrecting discussion about > it (AIUI)

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

> Steve> Better skills for handling interpersonal conflict can > never > Steve> be a bad thing. However, the Technical Committee exists > as a > Steve> decision-making body of last resort, when consensus is not > Steve> possible (because two parties have incompatible goals, or >

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

On November 3, 2017 9:09:31 PM EDT, Sam Hartman wrote: >> "Steve" == Steve Langasek writes: > >Steve> Hi Diane, >Steve> On Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 11:48:05AM -0700, Diane Trout wrote: >>> I only just subscribed and only have read some of the

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

> "Steve" == Steve Langasek writes: Steve> Hi Diane, Steve> On Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 11:48:05AM -0700, Diane Trout wrote: >> I only just subscribed and only have read some of the discussion >> so this may be a bit off topic or already discussed. >> But

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

Hi Diane, On Thu, Nov 02, 2017 at 11:48:05AM -0700, Diane Trout wrote: > I only just subscribed and only have read some of the discussion so > this may be a bit off topic or already discussed. > But I was wondering if the project has thought about explicitly > encouraging mentoring in techniques

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

> "Ian" == Ian Jackson writes: Ian> Thanks for your mail. I have trimmed vigorously the parts I Ian> agreed with :-). Thanks again for your mail. I also trim parts where I think we understand each other and seem to be in general agreement. I want to

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

Hi, I only just subscribed and only have read some of the discussion so this may be a bit off topic or already discussed. But I was wondering if the project has thought about explicitly encouraging mentoring in techniques for handling interpersonal conflict and helping members develop

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

Thanks for your mail. I have trimmed vigorously the parts I agreed with :-). Sam Hartman writes ("Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee"): > That said, I actually think in some cases we need to spend more energy > rather than l

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

> "Ian" == Ian Jackson writes: Ian> Sam Hartman writes ("Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Ian> Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee"): >> I am discussing how we handle conflict because I hope we can do a >> better job of

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

Sam Hartman writes ("Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee"): > I am discussing how we handle conflict because I hope we can do a better > job of helping people feel valued even when we do not agree with their > technical

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

> "Russ" == Russ Allbery writes: Russ> Martin Steigerwald writes: >> Russ Allbery - 28.10.17, 16:13: >>> There wasn't *anything* "left out" of that discussion. >> In my opinion this is a pretty bold statement. >> If everyone has

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

Martin Steigerwald writes: > Russ Allbery - 28.10.17, 16:13: >> There wasn't *anything* "left out" of that discussion. > In my opinion this is a pretty bold statement. > If everyone has been heard, noticed, felt and valued, if everything has > been covered, then why are we

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

Dear Russ, dear Sam, dear people involved with Debian, Russ Allbery - 28.10.17, 16:13: > Martin Steigerwald writes: > > I always found that just focusing on the technical aspects of the Init > > system discussion left out… everything else. Even the issue in itself > > was

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

Gunnar Wolf writes: > It's easy to reach a technically sound decision, but it's hard to uphold > it without someone somehow getting sore about it. I don't know how > inevitable this is, but I recognize it happens in many different > areas. And a few sore people "hurt" more than

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

Martin Steigerwald writes: > I always found that just focusing on the technical aspects of the Init > system discussion left out… everything else. Even the issue in itself > was not purely technical, although back then I had the a feeling that > almost no one agreed with me

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

On Sat, 28 Oct 2017, Martin Steigerwald wrote: > During posting in those endless mailing list threads back then and > then being moderated by listmasters… asking myself "why me? … and not > everyone else as well?" For the record, listmaster@ did not moderate you. I'm sorry if you felt that you

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

Sam Hartman dijo [Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 08:18:48PM -0400]: > > As a member of the technical committee, I've grown increasingly alarmed > as I think about the impact of the issues that come to us. > Yes, we're giving answers. However, I think we are doing a lot of harm > to the members of our

Re: Let's Stop Getting Torn Apart by Disagreement: Concerns about the Technical Committee

Hello Sam. Sam Hartman - 27.10.17, 20:18: > As a member of the technical committee, I've grown increasingly alarmed > as I think about the impact of the issues that come to us. > Yes, we're giving answers. However, I think we are doing a lot of harm > to the members of our community in the