>>>>> "Russ" == Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org> writes:
Russ> Martin Steigerwald <mar...@lichtvoll.de> writes: >> Russ Allbery - 28.10.17, 16:13: >>> There wasn't *anything* "left out" of that discussion. >> In my opinion this is a pretty bold statement. >> If everyone has been heard, noticed, felt and valued, if >> everything has been covered, then why are we discussing it… yet >> again now? Russ> Those are not equivalent statements. In that sort of Russ> discussion, it is literally impossible to make everyone feel Russ> valued, since at least some people on each side will only feel Russ> valued if their preferred option is chosen. That's therefore Russ> not a reasonable thing to attempt to achieve; we can try to Russ> maximize the number of people who feel valued, but there are Russ> usually at least some people involved in this large and Russ> sprawling of a decision for whom "valued" is synonymous with Russ> "agreed with." For myself, I've found that if I work with people I can often get to a point where they feel valued even when there is disagreement. As you point out that's not true for some people and it is difficult even when it is possible. I was not planning on discussing systemd again. I am discussing how we handle conflict because I hope we can do a better job of helping people feel valued even when we do not agree with their technical positions. In the limit, I hope to do your literally impossible:-) Fortunately, I'd be thrilled and filled with joy to simply get closer to that limit. Helping create a culture where we have mechanisms to help ourselves separate value from agreement, and where we value using those mechanisms would delight me. I think even that is a hard ask, but I do not think it is literally impossible. --Sam