With regard to two GPSDOs, it is an interesting experiment. I have two
Tbolts, both 2.2 firmware, both fed from the same antenna, both with
factory default settings, and I see differences. They are about 2 feet
apart on my bench and everything is pretty stable, +/- 20 nS or so until
the heat kicks
I don't use what LH says about temperature. I compare the 10 MHz output to
something else. With two Tbolts sitting about 2 feet apart on my bench,
both fed from the same antenna, both with factory settings, when the heat
kicks on, I see a change in the difference between the two. Comparing a
Tbolt
Fascinating! Thanks for posting.
On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 7:19 AM, D. Resor wrote:
> I am sure some have seen this, however.
>
> 16 Khz VLF, Rugby, England
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unlg2gY2Zrs
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
>
> http://hammondorganservice.com
Why has no one mentioned thermocouples?
I had some experience with thermistors a few years back designing thermal
attenuators and equalizers for CATV. NTC thermistors can have a large
change of resistance for a unit change in temperature. They aren't linear,
but there are formulas for computing res
Mark,
Yes, I saw that. My main interest at the moment is just getting the thing
working properly. It isn't.
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 11:39 AM, Mark Sims wrote:
> When I dumped the flash rom from one of the TruePosition units, we found a
> couple of commands that seem related to OCXO learning. T
Thanks to all who replied. You pointed me to a wealth of good information.
Seems lately that I have been getting let down in my Google searches. I
didn't find any of the stuff you led me to, but I should have. Hmmm. it may
be because I have been using Ecosia for searches instead of actually using
G
There is a small, about 3.5" by 4.5", GPSDO board being offered by several
sellers on eBay. I bought one from what looks to be the only US based
source. It is identified as True Position, Inc., and had a small CTS OCXO
and Furuno GT8031 on board. I found hook up information in one of the Asian
vend
When I removed it from storage, communication was gone. It took a very long
while to lock, but did so and maintained lock for a couple of weeks before
going into holdover. It then locked back for a while.
I definitely need to do more trouble shooting on it before I give up
completely. It was the be
Hal, I can't communicate with it. That has been gone for a while now.
On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 9:05 PM, Hal Murray wrote:
> > Mine has quit achieving lock.
> ...
> > After reading about someone else's trouble, i wonder if my OCXO has aged
> > out.
>
> Have you checked the status page? Is the GPS
Mine has quit achieving lock. It goes back a ways. I had it in storage for
a while. When I got it out of storage, It took about 2 weeks to lock. It
would go into holdover sometimes for no reason I could ever discover. I
lost the ability to communicate with it. Then, one of the Lucent DC/DC
converte
I need the part number of the connector that the Motorola Oncore series GPS
receiver plugs into. Does anyone have that info at hand?
Thanks in advance.
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I didn't mean to imply that all Chinese made products are garbage. But,
some of them are. And, has been said, that is because people want to pay
the absolute lowest prices for stuff. The company I recently retired from
has a long history with Chinese competition. We had a product that had but
one A
For those who have been following the saga of the Chinese made, eBay
purchased antenna that failed, I may have an answer as to why it failed.
I had to destructively disassemble it. I just could not get it apart any
other way. I used a Chinese version of a Dremel tool with a metal saw
blade. After m
Maek Sims wrote: I have several Motorola compatible GPS receivers... and
not one of them does a perfect emulation of the Motorola devices. Some are
quite close and not likely to cause problems... others are superiorly
craptastic.
Are there any readily available boards that will substitute for th
Bob wrote: Hi
Just so people don’t get to down on eBay antennas:
I have gotten some deals on eBay I just couldn't have gotten elsewhere.
That is a nice looking antenna. A bit pricey for my budget. I thought just
north of $100 for a used Leica choke ring job was about it. The Trimble
antenna I go
Bob wrote: Sitting here casually reading the data sheets for some of the
modern Trimble
survey receivers - they have gone to 7.2V (just below your 7.5V trigger
point)
as an antenna supply voltage.
Who knows what that might imply relative to this antenna.
After getting my refund, I sent the selle
They have issued a refund. The seller said that my antenna was defective.
This is kind of a strange outfit. They are in Russia selling Chinese goods,
shipped from China. Since I don't have to return it, I will disassemble it
to see what went bad. I replied that if he could assure me that it would
I opened a "Not as listed" case and heard back from the seller. They said
that the antenna is definitely 3.3 to 18 volts and have sold several that
are in operation. They wanted to know specifically how I tested the
antenna, why I thought it shorted, and if I actually ever hooked it to a
GPS receiv
Bob wrote:
Is it labeled 3.3 to 18V on the antenna?
No, the writing on the antenna is all Chinese. The specs published on eBay
state that it is.
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To those who doubted that the antenna was actually a 3.3 to 18 volt design,
it seems you were correct. Today, I hooked it up to a variable power supply
and slowly raised the DC voltage fed to the antenna. It began to pull
current at about 2.9 volts and at 3.3 volts, took about 40 mA. I continued
to
Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
Another RF engineer, who I don't know from working with antennas, said to
me that antennas are a still a charlatan's paradise.
Those words rang true to me. I have yet to see a yagi type antenna that, in
practice actually produced the gain it was specified to produce. True,
I kind of have to believe the specs. The two survey grade antennas I
already have, a Leica and a Trimble, both have regulators in the preamp
sections. The Leica has an 8 volt one and the Trimble has a 5 volt one. I
intend to hook it up to a variable supply and watch the current as I
increase voltag
It should work with a T bolt since its range is 3.3 to 18 volts. I also
have a good bias T and GPS type splitter that only passes power to one port
that I can also use. I hope the gain isn't a problem. I live in the
country, so local RF shouldn't be an issue. I can scrounge up some pads if
need be.
Thanks for the responses. It looks similar to but not exactly like the two
antennas referenced. They say the preamp is 3 to 5.5 volts, whereas the
eBay antenna says its preamp is good from 3.3 to 18 volts, indicating I can
run it off 12 volts. Regarding the internals, I must have somehow missed
the
https://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Precision-L1-L2-GNSS-GPS-GLONASS-BeiDou-RTK-CORS-survey-antenna/162718512935?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
Listed on eBay as a L1/L2 antenna with decent specs. They seem to indicate
it is as good as a choke ring antenna. I suspect it is ju
I have been gone for a good while, but now that I am officially retired, I
thought I would get back into the time/frequency hobby. I recently bought a
Trimble 33429-00 antenna off eBay. I can't seem to find much on the
internet about it. Google has not been my friend. First, I assume the
"micro cen
We make some thick film, plastic molded , plug in attenuators for the cable
TV industry. We have been asked on several occasions to provide MTBF data.
Being a small company with limited resources, we have never been able to
provide that data. The parts we make will easily outlast the equipment they
Joe, I'd be interested in knowing what you find out. My Z3801 is acting a
lot like yours. It is currently locked, but.
On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 8:15 AM, Joseph Gray wrote:
> Dave,
>
> I power cycled it about 20 days ago, which did no good. That is the
> 496 hours holdover time. This time, I did j
The one we have was part of a big DOCSIS rack that came from Scientific
Atlanta.
On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 11:57 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
> Am 02.03.2016 um 19:04 schrieb John C. Westmoreland, P.E.:
>
>> Magnus,
>>
>> This was the best answer I got so far - I am sure this isn't what you're
>> lo
I noticed some US made ones on the auction site for cheap. They say they
offer a 30 day money back guarantee. Hmmm
On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 12:27 AM, gonzo . wrote:
> No - Please don't.
> No more of us need be burnt by that POS.
>
> Once you've bought it, you discover all you can do is send one co
I have a desire to do some data collection and storage from my Racal 1992,
and I need a USB to GPIB converter. We have a National Instruments
converter at work, but I want to do this at home. The SoftMark unit is
considerably less expensive than the NI one. Does it work? Specifically,
would it work
I don't think I would go messing with it just yet. If the reference is
powered as long as it is plugged in, leave it plugged in for a couple of
weeks and then check it. I adjusted the reference on an 8920 once, and best
I remember, it moves in steps. I don't think I ever got it dead on. It
might al
I have been playing with one of those small, 2.75"by 4.5" GPSDOs that are
being sold on that auction site. Most of the ones I have seen any
discussion about have been Trimble, but this Symmetricom one looks similar
but is about half price. I have hooked it up a few times to see how fast it
can find
We have had mixed results with HP/Agilent/Keysight over the years. Our
experience with their repair and customer service has been less favorable.
One area where my experience has been unfavorable has been with the Genesys
software. We bought it back when it was still owned by Randy Rhea, and I
thou
That last one sure looks interesting. I have one that is similar to the
Trimble units that have been discussed, but was made by Symmetricom. About
all I can say right now is that it *seems to work. I'll know more after I
have compared it to the Z3801.*
On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 1:13 AM, Joseph Gray
Charles,
The OCXO has always been pretty warm to the touch. Except now, it is
barely warm. I tried the antenna first with a card sized Symmetricon GPSDO
and it locked up OK. I have a small uBlox GPS that gives the signal levels
of the satellites it sees. I need to hook that up and check. The Ante
;cost' I ask is it work
> let me know.
>
> -pete
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 6:52 AM, John Green wrote:
>
> > After a couple of days of GPS lock, it went into holdover. I briefly
> > powered it down and it attained lock again in abo
After a couple of days of GPS lock, it went into holdover. I briefly
powered it down and it attained lock again in about 15 minutes. But, a
while later, it was back in holdover. I finally coaxed that Sager laptop
into working and after connecting to it with genuine RS232, I still can't
communicate
Charles,
The place isn't out of the way. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if it got
a power interruption sometime. In addition, the temperature isn't stable
either. It will be at least a couple of weeks before I am ready to attempt
to use it for anything, and then it won't matter so much about abs
Tonight I got a GPS Lock light. Bravo!
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I have been reading the posts regarding working with surface mount
components with great interest. One thing I think I should caution against.
That is soldering capacitors with a soldering iron. Some years ago, when
the folks I work for were just changing over to surface mount from through
hole, I
Thanks guys. I'll hook it up to the regular power supply and let it cook
for a while. I have a uBlox board I want to check for jitter, but I'll need
that '3801 to check it against. The fun part will just have to wait.
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After running continuously for about 3 years at work, I stored my Z3801 for
a little over a year. I recently took it out of storage and when I hooked
it up, all I get is a power on light. The front panel LEDs light in
sequence and the 6 inside blink red once and then the last one blinks
continuousl
In reading the posts regarding a TBolt being interfered with by a close by
GPS antenna/preamp/receiver, I don't have experience with Tbolts and
interference but I do have some with the Z3801. I had my Z3801 running for
a couple of years here at work. The antenna was a marine antenna mounted
about a
I've been away for a long time. So, I guess that makes me the new guy, all
over again.
I have long coveted a choke ring GPS antenna. Oh, I have several so called
"timing grade" ones but I have always wanted a choke ring. After watching
them on eBay for a long time and seeing them in the $600 range,
Thanks Chuck. That kind of information was exactly what I was looking for.
"Special" is in the eye of the beholder. It does sound like a watch he would
fancy because it would have probably been the kind of watch an engineer
would have carried. Plus, it is a pretty good watch. I saw it briefly.
Look
I know there are those who have a lot of knowledge about pocket watches and
railroad watches so, I know someone with a 992B Hamilton Railroad Special,
21 jewel, lever set, with a Montgomery dial. He seems to think this is a
special watch. Is it?
___
time-
Just because I don't wear a wristwatch doesn't imply that I think there is
something wrong with wearing one. Quite the contrary, I think it is just
fine to wear one. A couple of guys commented that they didn't carry a
cellphone either. I wish. My dear wife insists that I carry one. I have
spent the
I haven't worn a wristwatch in maybe 30 years. I generally use my cellphone
or whatever timepiece that's handy. Or, I just guess. I don't wear my
wedding ring either. Jewelry of any kind bothers me.
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To unsu
Quote:
That is the "white space" plan. It is still active. It is an attempt to use
wasted TV bandwidth.
TV bandwidth is a waste. It is not a growing business. However, the MS
scheme is kind of dumb. The gear would sniff the ether and automatically use
the spectrum. They should really just refarm t
Yes, what about L5? I thought that was going to be the "new" civilian
frequency that was going to revolutionize GPS. If the FCC is hellbent on
approving Light Squared's request, L5 might be our only option. Of course
the transition would be very nasty and expensive. Regarding nuclear powered
satell
Sorry for the Off Topic nature of this but things haven't been too on topic
of late. Anyway, I digress. I stumbled across an interesting microwave
assembly and I know there are some microwave nuts around here, I think some
of our European friends. It has a Delphi (I could find no trace of them)
DE1
I recently bought an old EF Johnson 900 MHz repeater to try to convert to
Amateur frequencies. It uses, but did not include, a 1.25 MHz reference. I
need a divide by 8 circuit in order to use a LPRO as reference. Phase noise
isn't an issue so a regenerative divider is out. I am not sure if the old
Interesting. I have several Ovenaire OCXOs of differing models. I used to
think they were pretty stable until I compared them to my Z3801. Compared to
a '3801, they stink. But then, a rubidium stinks compared to a 3801. Most
have a voltage input for frequency adjustment but one has a trimmer cap fo
Interesting to read the comments of others who have these. I have one I got
years ago, gave up on. I knew it worked because I could see the 50 something
MHz inside moving around and then locking up. I finally found out how to
hook RS232 up to it and reset the frequency. It couldn't be set to exactl
Doh! Never mind. It was the ERA-5SM I was thinking of. Boy, my age is
beginning to show. Apologies.
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Please excuse the off topic nature of this question, but I knew you guys
would know. Is there, or was there a MAR-5 mmic? I thought I had some but
when I look for specs, everything I am finding seems to skip over the MAR-5.
If not, I'll have to dig into my mmic repository to see just what I do have
I use an International Power IHBCC512 which is overkill but I had it
handy. I also use a cheap switcher on another one that serves as a
reference for a ham repeater. Based on my somewhat limited experience,
they are a long way from a Z3801. They are much cheaper though.
___
I have a GPS jammer I got from China a while back. I would never jam
anyone's GPS. I just got it to play with my own GPS receivers with. It
is a simple sweeper and it devastates my Z3801 but my Garmin Nuvi is
totally immune. So, anyone buying one of these hoping to keep from
being tracked needs to
The timing grade receiver I have, a Z3801 absolutely lays down at the
least possible amount of on frequency signal. My automotive grade
Garmin is immune to even high levels. It may be that the slightest
degradation is unacceptable to the Z3801. More testing is needed. If
these anticipated transmitt
If the FCC weren't a government entity they would be called whores.
This reminds me of the time several years ago when it was taking a
year or more to get a grant for a 800 MHz license. The FCC granted
thousands, yes thousands of requests from the company that would
become Nextel all in one day. Qu
Some time back, I posted my experiments with a cheap Chinese made GPS
jammer and Z3801. Since then, I have been able to check it on a
spectrum analyzer. It sweeps over about 30 MHz centered on GPS L1
frequency. Power looks like about -3 dbM. If I turn it on within 30
feet of the antenna, the Z3801
I bought one and though I haven't done any scientific tests, I can say
that it is very easy to hook up and use. I have not been able to use
the bluetooth function, though. It is also very sensitive and gets a
first fix quickly from cold. The DOP figures look too good to be true,
getting as good as
When a product is sold giving the distinct impression that it is to be
used to navigate to street addresses, then it should be accurate for
the use it is sold for. If the street addresses aren't going to be
accurate, they should just leave them off. Tonight, I tried to use my
Nuvi and it didn't eve
Quote:"
Maybe we should cut these cartographers a little slack. When you consider
that Garmin will sell you a map update of the entire northern hemisphere for
eighty bucks, we perhaps shouldn't get too wadded up if they miss the exact
location of my little bungalow by a couple of hundred feet. Af
I downloaded a topo map from a source not connected with Garmin and
get the same thing. I understand that you get one free update and I
already got it. I have only had it a couple of weeks so this should be
the latest map.
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I just bought a Nuvi 265WT and after I entered my home address, it
says home is .2 miles away. I know this is a map error, but the map
comes from Garmin. To me, this is unacceptable. I will complain, in
vain, I am sure, to Garmin.
Sorry to be off topic but when I saw "Garmin", I couldn't resist
ven
I tried substituting the 1 PPS output from the Z3801 and comparing it
to its own 10 MHz output and find the same jumpy behavior as I get
with the UBLOX boards. Well, not exactly the same but pretty much. Now
I am confused. I expected the 1 PPS to be in lock step with the 10
MHz.
__
Magnus Danielson wrote:"I would let the low-frequency PPS act as start
and the 10 MHz as stop,
unless you want to measure the PPSes directly."
I tried that too. Seemed to work perhaps a little better. I ended up
using the 1 PPS from the Z3801 instead of the 10 MHz. I am going to
have to dig out th
I recently bought 4 older UBLOX GPS boards on eBay for $15 with free
shipping. I hooked one up to my 1992 and comparing it with the Z3801,
I am seeing it jump all over the place. I am using the 10 MHz output
from the 3801 to start and the 1 PPS from the UBLOX to stop. I will
have to bring in a TBol
They have all sold and all but one for over $100. Seems someone
thought they were worth something.
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A few of these are currently on eBay at pretty low prices. I have
never heard of them and was wondering if anyone here has had any
experience with them or knows where some information might be found.
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I read that Phrack article and their jammer is much more sophisticated
than mine. Mine is just a sweeper. I don't even know yet the sweep
rate. I was thinking more along the lines of theirs. Something that
actually put out a signal that contained at least some aspects of the
signal they were intend
Given that this is an extremely sensitive topic and completely illegal
also, let me just state at the outset that I have no interest in
jamming anyone's GPS. A while back, I was looking at one of those
Chinese discount electronics websites, I'm sure we all have, and
noticed a GPS jammer for sale. I
I don't believe there are such things as fairies, etc. Unless you
count the 4 foot 10 Filipino fairy that inhabits my house. I was bad
enough to take my glasses off to work on something only to spend an
hour afterward looking for them. Now, I have someone else to blame.
She puts her glasses in the
Bert,
I for one, would be interested in that.
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I seem to remember someone saying they had actually tried one. I am looking
to put another repeater on the air and while I have another TBOLT, I like
the fact that the CW12-TIM takes a single supply. Of course, I'll have to
have 5 volts to power the antenna but I can get the 3 volts for the CW12
fr
Add me to the list.
Thanks
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I have had my Racal Dana 1992 on continuously for several months now and it
seems to have settled down quite nicely. Its error compared to my Z3801
hasn't changed noticeably in weeks. So, I decided to try to adjust it so
there was little/no error. The fine frequency adjustment seems to have quite
a
The default parameters are a compromise. The thunderbolt was originally used
to provide time and frequency, though I understand not always frequency, for
cellsites. Though heated and air conditioned, I suspect they had pretty good
temperature swings. Also, the sky view was not always optimum. It wa
If you decide to let Agilent repair your instrument be aware that "flat
rate" doesn't necessarily mean what you think it does. We sent a network
analyzer to them under the "flat rate" repair program and we were told that
certain repairs, anything expensive, wasn't covered and that the repair
would
I have a couple of TBOLTs as well as a Z3801. If it were me, I would spend
the extra and get a Z3801 or something similar. There is a Z3805 on eBay
right now for $199. I didn't notice if it was an auction or buy it now.
Z3801s seem to vary widely in price. I have seen them for under $200 but
right
I am a relative outsider to this fine group. I mostly just read the posts. I
have learned a lot since I have subscribed.
So, I don't have a dog in the fight over whether the tight PLL method is all
Warren says it is. I can understand that Warren
has researched this method, discovered its weakness a
Anyone remember the CK722 transistor? As I remember they were about $7.50, a
considerable sum.
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Said,
I assume you are using something like the Coilcraft 0603 LS series which
seem to have ferrite cores. You might want to try a 0805 size part since
that inductance is available in the CS series which are ceramic only. I
don't know if size constraints prohibit using an 0805 but you can try one t
Going to Talladega? I am in Anniston, just a hop, skip away. If you get
time, drop by. I am at 1750 Coleman Rd. We don't have a Time Nuts quality
lab here but do have some interesting stuff.
John Green
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They work very well. I have a LDCBS1X2 I got off eBay for $15 or so. Do have
a look there befor you pay retail. The one I have has one port thru and the
other blocked. Also has a load on the blocked side so some receivers won't
whine about open antennas. There are lots of options, but these are so
Raj wrote:
I must again check with a newer GPS for better coordinate accuracy.
Initially only two SV's lit green, after I set the co-ordinates then all are
green. Now the 10MHz is jumping between <0.1 >0.00 ppb. comparing
with a a FE5680.
I understand that is mostly due to using the default setting
I started out using an oscilloscope and comparing OCXOs to my Z3801 GPSDO.
Later I used it to compare an LPRO 101 to the Z3801 and finally, a TBOLT. I
later acquired a Racal 1992 which makes things a little easier but no more
accurate in my opinion. If you are looking at frequency difference or
fre
Luis,
I noticed that TAPR shows the Reflock2 items as no longer available. Is
there another source?
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I worked for a brief spell for a company that made transformers. We had
several high voltage parts and I came to appreciate making high voltage
stuff is as much an art as a science. One of our products was a 7 kV ferro.
The usual way to test one was to grab the silicone output lead and get it
near
I had a Tbolt and a Z3801 both fed from the same antenna and they indicated
26 meters differenence in altitude. The 3801 seemed closer to right. If
geoid error were the cause, it seems that both would indicate about the
same.
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I am at work so I couldn't commit the time to trying to get in. I did manage
to get something in my cart but could never check out. They didn't answer my
e mail yesterday complaining about their site but I am going to send them
another reminding them that wasting the time of people who are potentia
I was going to try to purchase a Prologix GPIB converter but I can't access
their site. I sent an e mail informing them but have not gotten a reply. Is
it just me?
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As someone relatively new to the precision time/frequency game my viewpoint
is a little different to the more seasoned folk. Your statement that you
wanted to build your own atomic standard leads me to believe that this is
more of a learning experience for you. Even if you want to build it
yourself
"Since the oscillator/inner oven can is sealed," how can you smell it?
Bill Hawkins
The point I was trying to make, perhaps unsuccessfully, was that since the
can containing the inner oven was sealed, the smell had to be coming from
the insulation between the inner and outer ovens.
_
I partially disassembled the reference and the smell is coming from the
inner oven. After looking at the website that shows a complete disassembly,
it looks like the only thing that could be generating the odor is the black
foam insulation between the oscillator can and the outer oven. Since the
os
I lifted the top board and after some sniffing I determined that the smell
is coming from the 10811 reference oscillator can. I don't know if I want to
open it up but I guess at this point, I don't have much choice. Unless it is
normal for them to smell bad. Anyone ever experienced stinky reference
I always thought the microprocessor in a Z3801 had to talk to the GPS
receiver for it to work. Guess not. Anyway, would a Resolution T work to
supply 1 PPS? Would it be better or worse than the existing Oncore? By the
way, my Z3801 is still stinky. I powered it off yesterday and I am going to
remov
I was sitting a couple of feet from the Z3801 when I got a whiff of a very
funky smell. Though my sense of smell is very poor, I sniffed around until I
determined it is coming from the Z3801. It seems to be working OK. I haven't
lifted the lid yet. I know there are 3801 gurus here so, is this somet
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