RE: v15.3 seems to be crashing on MACOS 10.12.1 & the new MBP

[Timothy Penner]

Hi Kirk,

Actually it looks like I gave you incorrect information this morning; I had 
originally said you needed a paid Developer account with Apple to get the Beta 
of 10.12.2:

> Here is the latest download from Apple, but it requires a paid Developer 
> account to download:
> https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=11142016b

But actually it looks like all you need to do is signup here:
https://beta.apple.com/

Once you have signed up, then you can enroll the machine by downloading and 
running the "public beta access utility" from here:
https://beta.apple.com/sp/betaprogram/redemption 

Once the "public beta access utility" is installed you should see an update in 
the Mac App Store for macOS 10.12.2 Public Beta 3.

I hope this helps!

Kind Regards,

Tim PENNER
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Re: 4D backup

[Arnaud de Montard]

> Le 19 nov. 2016 à 00:10, Peter Mew  a écrit :
> 
> Hi
> I have a v13 standalone app, to which I would like to add the ability for the 
> user to schedule their own 4D backups.
> I can't find anything in the language to make this possible.
> I want to Create a form where the user can choose when the backup happens, 
> how often, where the backup is stored etc. Basically all the things that the 
> designer can set up in the design environment.

Backup settings are in the xml file located here:
  ..DBfolder/Preferences/Backup/Backup.xml
You just have to use XML command to read / write this file. 
Full description of the options are here:


In C/S configuration, Backup.xml is on the server but a method with the 
"execute on server" (EoS) attribute allows to read or write the file easily, 
see here (old example):

Even if it's for a standalone app now, EoS will be useable if needed in C/S… 

-- 
Arnaud de Montard 


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Re: 4D backup

[Douglas von Roeder]

Peter:

Interesting idea but the only thing that I've been able to find in that
vein is the command OPEN SETTINGS WINDOW

Try these:

OPEN SETTINGS WINDOW("/Database/BACKUP/Scheduler";True)
OPEN SETTINGS WINDOW("/Database/BACKUP/Configuration";True)
OPEN SETTINGS WINDOW("/Database/BACKUP/Backup and restore";True)

Those would allow the user to set the backup but opening multiple windows
isn't very elegant. :-(



--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 3:10 PM, Peter Mew  wrote:

> Hi
> I have a v13 standalone app, to which I would like to add the ability for
> the user to schedule their own 4D backups.
> I can't find anything in the language to make this possible.
> I want to Create a form where the user can choose when the backup happens,
> how often, where the backup is stored etc. Basically all the things that
> the designer can set up in the design environment.
> Is this possible?
> A pointer in the right direction would be most helpful
> Thanks
> -pm
>
> Sent from my iPad
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Re: 4D backup

[Keisuke Miyako]

the backup schedule is stored in an xml file (on the server side) so the idea 
is to present a dialog which can modify the file.

there is a v2004 how-do-I that illustrates that point, maybe the one named 
"BackupRestore"

ftp://ftp.4d.com/SAMPLE_DATABASES/4D/2004_Samples/demo_dbs_hdi/MacOS/Misc/BackupRestore.hqx
ftp://ftp.4d.com/SAMPLE_DATABASES/4D/2004_Samples/demo_dbs_hdi/Windows/Misc/BackupRestore.exe

the code is a bit sophisticated, it resolves process variables with the same 
name as the xml element names.



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Tel: 03-6427-8441
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www.4D.com/JP

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4D backup

[Peter Mew]

Hi
I have a v13 standalone app, to which I would like to add the ability for the 
user to schedule their own 4D backups.
I can't find anything in the language to make this possible.
I want to Create a form where the user can choose when the backup happens, how 
often, where the backup is stored etc. Basically all the things that the 
designer can set up in the design environment.
Is this possible?
A pointer in the right direction would be most helpful
Thanks
-pm

Sent from my iPad
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RE: Can Mac version compile for Mac & Windows server client ?

[Tai Bui]

Hi, 

Yes, this is still the case up to the most recent builds. 

Initially you will need to create the double clickable app on their respective 
platforms, but if you are allowing clients from both platforms to connect to a 
server, you can enable the "Allow automatic update of {platform name} client 
application" during the build of the server and allow the server to update each 
client without the need of going to each platform and rebuilding each client.

Best Regards,
-Tai B. 
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Re: Pluggers Software releases NTK Plugin 3.0

[Tom Swenson]

Oops

Included time in the link to save all the tedious drudgery of scrolling to the 
indicated time ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Dv2jVt7Mw#t=51m40s



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RE: 4D Web Application

[Timothy Penner]

That's correct.

> It's worth noting that if you use the NTK solution you are still obliged to 
> purchase the web server license.

If you want to serve web clients from 4D, you are supposed to have a Web Server 
license for 4D, even if you are using NTK to do the serving.

Kind Regards,

Tim PENNER
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RE: 4D Web Application

[Timothy Penner]

Hi Ferdinando,

> I can use 4D Web Application Expansion even with a stand alone compiled 4d 
> application?

If it is not merged (double-clickable) then you could use the "4D Web 
Application Server" license:
http://www.4d.com/products/4dv15/4dwebappserver.html
^ This license allows a 4D (single user) application to run in compiled mode 
with access to the 4D Web Server (unlimited connections)

If you need it to run a merged (double-clickable) application then you need OEM 
Desktop:
http://www.4d.com/products/4dv15/4doemdesktop.html 

Here is a comparison chart for deployment licenses:
http://www.4d.com/products/4dv15/deployment.html

-Tim
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Re: v15.3 seems to be crashing on MACOS 10.12.1 & the new MBP

[Kirk Brooks]

Hey Tim,
Thanks for the reply. Rolling back isn't an option as this is one of the
new machines and it's not going to roll anywhere but forward I think. I'm
trying out VMware Fusion. I created a vm on my old laptop (10.10) and am
moving it over to my new one now. With luck that will offer me an option
while this sorts itself out.

It's funny - I was unboxing and setting this one up yesterday within
minutes of the time you all were releasing 15.3.

I suspected I'd be dealing with some of this sort of stuff buying into
brand new Apple hardware. Haven't done that in a while. Have to say, it's a
pretty sweet machine.

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 9:07 AM, Timothy Penner  wrote:

> Indeed, the 16B2657 build of Sierra does not play well with 4D, while the
> older and newer builds of Sierra seem to be much better.
>

-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===
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RE: v15.3 seems to be crashing on MACOS 10.12.1 & the new MBP

[Timothy Penner]

Hi Kirk,

Indeed, the 16B2657 build of Sierra does not play well with 4D, while the older 
and newer builds of Sierra seem to be much better.

Quote Douglas von Roeder:
> I was just reading the release notes on 15.3  and 
> I think you're wise to roll back to 15.2.

If you are using Sierra 10.12.1 (16B2657) then rolling back to an older version 
of 4D will not help because the issue is not in 4D but in the build of Sierra 
16B2657. Both older and newer releases of 4D also have issues on 16B2657. 

The solution is to get off of that build of Sierra 16B2657, either go back to 
El Capitan or forward to one of the betas of 10.12.2, as suggested by Spencer:

Quote Spencer Hinsdale:
> if you are a developer, you can get beta 10.12.2 which per release notes 
> fixes the 16b257 issue.

Here is the latest download from Apple, but it requires a paid Developer 
account to download:
https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=11142016b

I hope this helps!

Kind Regards,

Tim PENNER
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Re: Date Question...

[Kirk Brooks]

Neil,

A solution I've used for a long time now is to convert date/time values
into a string:

MMDDHHmmSS


​I started this before 4D made it easy to get essentially the same string
with

String(current date;ISO date;current time) = -MM-DDTHH:mm:SS

​
Here are my pros and cons:
PROS

   - having the date & time in a single field makes queries and sorting easy
   - it's completely un-ambiguous
   - you can elect to support partial dates without loosing the ability to
   sort or query
   - human readable and even looks nice with a simple display filter
   - the methods to support it are fast and straightforward

​CONS

   - it's an extra step on every date & time field
   - if you make the query editor directly available users have to
   understand
   - same with quick reports​

​I've encountered a lot of this sort of issue doing genealogical databases
- especially the partial date issue. However, since my convention is the
first 14 chars to the date/time string (or DTS) it's easy to add qualifiers
after that string such as "about", "circa", "before" etc., time zone data
and even another date as:

2016110100 to 2016120100

​
​That, of course, doesn't go to resolving the question of how to interpret
​"15-03-11" if you have no other data. The solution is in the context and
you'd need to know something about that. I suppose you could store it as:

2015031100 or 2011031500

​starting with you best guess first and sort it out later. ​


On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 7:19 AM, Dennis, Neil  wrote:

> > I guess it just affirms the point that date constants are too ambiguous
> and not worth your while.
>
> What do you use instead of date constants to specify a specific date in
> code?
>


-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===
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4D Web Application

[stardata.info]

Hi,

I can use 4D Web Application Expansion even with a stand alone compiled 
4d application?


Thanks
Ferdinando
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RE: encapsulate HTML

[davidinug]

Ferdinando,

If my memory is right, you may have a problem using 4D’s Web server in a 
stand-alone compiled, built application.

Please ask this question to 4D.

David Ringsmuth

From: stardata.info
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 12:19 AM
To: 4d_tech@lists.4d.com
Subject: RE: encapsulate HTML

Hi,

I can use 4D Web Application Expansion even with a stand alone compiled 
4d application?

Thanks
/Ferdinando

/
Il 17/11/2016 16:24, 4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com ha scritto:
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 08:50:54 -0600
> From:
> To: stardata.info,"4d_tech@lists.4d.com"
>   <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Subject: RE: encapsulate HTML
> Message-ID:<582dc3ce.cf086b0a.41a42.5...@mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Ferdinando,
>
> There will have to be some web server involved, unless you want to have them 
> complete an email, and return it.
>
> David Ringsmuth
>
> From: stardata.info
> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 3:12 PM
> To:davidi...@gmail.com;4d_tech@lists.4d.com
> Subject: Re: encapsulate HTML
>
> David,
> I have received the email.
> Tomorrow i do some tests.
>
> I suppose that you use the web server part of 4D for do this, one possible 
> problem is that in the my application is one server that are not opened on 
> Internet.
>
> Thanks
> Ferdinando
> Il 16/11/2016 21:09,davidi...@gmail.com  ha scritto:
> Ferdinando,
>   
> Please let me know when you have received the email with the link, and tested 
> it.
>   
> Thanks!
>   
> David Ringsmuth

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RE: Date Question...

[Dennis, Neil]

> I guess it just affirms the point that date constants are too ambiguous and 
> not worth your while.

What do you use instead of date constants to specify a specific date in code?


Neil











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Re: web serving from 4D client

[Bill Weale]

If you need significant 4D Client (not web serving) involvement with 4D Server 
or if the need of the web server for 4D data and functionality is non-trivial, 
I would forget the cloud as an option. Only solution in that direction I could 
think of would be to put 4D Server and 4D Client/webserver on the same cloud 
(you know what I mean) and hope that or arrange to have the 4D Clients on 
low-latency connections to  4D Server. This can be done with dedicated routed 
circuits but can be really expensive. We do have at least one setup like Arnaud 
describes, everything in-house with webserver/client in a DMZ. 

As he suggests, one way to avoid the expense under this last scenario is to 
design your db for higher latency connections with 4D Client. I just can’t get 
my head around the concept of putting 4D Server (as server to 4D Clients) in 
the cloud. Why deny your customer much of 4D’s potential? Why deny yourself the 
chance to provide it? Sure, you can whip something up that works ok at first, 
but unless you and your customer go into the project agreeing that it’s just 
going to be a short-term throw-away…

—Bill




> On Nov 18, 2016, at 5:18 AM, Paul Dennis  wrote:
> 
> Hello Scott, Bill, Tim
> 
> I'm trying to decide where to host the 4Dserver application. The options are
> 
> 1. 4D server inhouse and 4D Client web serving in cloud on a dedicated
> server. The limitation here is the speed of our connection as this is a
> consumer site and could be busy.
> 2. 4D server and 4D Client in cloud on same windows server
> 3. 4D server and 4D Client in cloud on with client running under hyper V on
> same machine ie isolate the server and the client.
> 
> At the moment I'm will be going with option 2.
> 
> Any thoughts
> Thanks
> Paul
> 
> 

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Re: web serving from 4D client

[Arnaud de Montard]

> Le 18 nov. 2016 à 11:18, Paul Dennis  a écrit :
> 
> I'm trying to decide where to host the 4Dserver application. The options are
> [...]

Another option: we use 4D server and client-as-web-server both in-house, with 
the client in a DMZ. Connection to wan is fiber. It is enough for us, the web 
traffic is not huge. 

I've been working a while on a dedicated server on cloud. It works, great, but 
very often 4D application written in lan environment will need deep changes to 
be useable. 

-- 
Arnaud de Montard 



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RE: web serving from 4D client

[Paul Dennis]

Hello Scott, Bill, Tim

I'm trying to decide where to host the 4Dserver application. The options are

1. 4D server inhouse and 4D Client web serving in cloud on a dedicated
server. The limitation here is the speed of our connection as this is a
consumer site and could be busy.
2. 4D server and 4D Client in cloud on same windows server
3. 4D server and 4D Client in cloud on with client running under hyper V on
same machine ie isolate the server and the client.

At the moment I'm will be going with option 2.

Any thoughts
Thanks
Paul




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Re: Follow Up Request: Automatic Variable Assignment and Web Get Variables - Bad usage of pointer or pointer to an unknown variable

[David Adams]

> I feel so stupid David for not thinking of just using the lowercase
command to change everything.

Don't feel bad! That's a trick I have to rediscover pretty much every time
I need it. 4D spoils us with case-insensitive names and (in most cases)
comparisons. I didn't follow your example closely, but if you're working
with JSON, then names *are* case-sensitive. While 4D's native JSON isn't
exactly JSON, it's more JSON than it isn't, so they ought to observe
case-sensitivity as required by JSON. Not sure if that applies in your
case...
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RE: Saving a backup to a network share when running as a service

[Epperlein, Lutz (agendo)]

A Windows service runs usually under the system account, mapped drives are not 
available there.

So this recommendation is the best:
> We have recommended exactly what Tom suggests: backup locally and copy to
> another location as separate operations.

Regards 
Lutz
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RE: Server Backup when running as a Service

[Epperlein, Lutz (agendo)]

I wouldn't let 4D backup to an external drive. Too many problems may arise.
A recommendation: Let 4D backup to a local path, maybe on a daily basis. Then 
use the Windows built-in services for backup or use a reliable third party 
software to backup the by 4D generated backup files to an external location. 
This Windows backup part is a task of IT admin people usually.

When we install our software we inform the admins usually about the location of 
the 4D backup files and recommend them to backup these files with their own 
tools.

HTH

Regards
Lutz
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Re: Pluggers Software releases NTK Plugin 3.0

[Rob Laveaux]

> On 18 Nov 2016, at 08:19, Paul Dennis  wrote:
> 
> Blimey, that is a major update Rob, Framework looks very interesting. For
> anyone else trying the demo its v13 on port 8080. With the web demo I
> couldnt get past the web login page or create account. Bit more info on demo
> would be useful.

Hi Paul,

Thank you for the kind words.

When you choose the menu item “HTTP Server Demo”, you will see a message that 
includes the username and password:

"You can login as user 'John Doe' with password 'john’.

HTH,

- Rob Laveaux


Pluggers Software
Scholekstersingel 48
2496 MP  Den Haag
The Netherlands

Email: rob.lave...@pluggers.nl 
Website: http://www.pluggers.nl 





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