Re: PHP Execute

[Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech]

It works uncompiled what makes you think it wont ? I will check.
Paul



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PHP Execute

[David Ringsmuth via 4D_Tech]

Does PHP Execute work in 4D v15.4 (windows) compiled built app?

(please say yes)

David Ringsmuth

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Re: CROP A PDF DOCUMENT

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

this might work

https://github.com/miyako/4d-plugin-imagemagick

documented here

https://github.com/miyako/4d-plugin-imagemagick/blob/master/ImageMagick/06-32%20ImageMagick.pdf

2017/07/15 6:40、stardata.info via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
I need to take a part of a pdf document and save this as a jpeg or png in one 
folder.
Is possible to do this using a 4D commands on windows?



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Re: Thinking through object/text fields: Findings summarized, advice solicited

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 7:36 AM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

>
> Perhaps this is what you are saying and I'm just reading too narrowly (it's
> been that sort of week).
>

I'm not sure, but I was reading Julio's comment as  something akin to
"David, don't do what you were offering as an example recently."
Specifically, storing a zillion copies of what amounts to a record stuffed
into an object and then an object field. Like, if you've *always* got first
name, middle name, last name, put them in fields! Don't put them in an
object that you then put into an object field. You can end up spending most
of your space storing redundant data, namely the keys.

Now, if you have a bunch of different JSON formats, that's a different
story. Some records might have first name, middle name, last name and
others have interval length, start date, and end date. I don't know, I'm
just making something up.

The other day I started my experimentation on object field with some code
I'd written. It generated zillions of objects, some in an array and some as
summaries of the array. I thought, hey! I'll store these and then can bring
the results back for different sorts of analysis later. Sure, why not? I
stuffed them into object fields and they were absolutely ginormous. So, I'd
have a record with a field with 96 array elements (24 hours broken into 15
minute buckets with stats for that interval)...and most of the data is just
the structure of the data...which is the same for every record. It's
obviously a lot more efficient to store the findings in proper tables,
boiled down to a more compact representation, or boiled down to a more
compact representation and stuffed into a blob as UTF8, or exported and
compressed. Whatever.

So, I was talking about what is called a "stupid example." I believe that
is the correct, contemporary term of art...but it's exactly the sort of
mistake someone else might make, so it's worth thinking about. If you have
an entirely regular structure, why would you store it in an object field? I
have a weird situation where the goal is to store JSON itself, but leave
that out. What is the point of storing your data in an object field?
(Thomas Maul and others also made a point like this on the Forums, unless
I'm mis-paraphrasing.) It doesn't generally make any sense. Here:

{"total":5}

If you store this in every single record in a table, what do you gain?
Well, nothing, so far as I can see. instead, put it in a regular field
named "total". Then you don't need to store the string "total" with every
record (the field name itself is the 'key') and the number is stored
directly as a number (more compact, easier to get into arrays, etc.)

I really have no idea how people are using object fields. 4D has some
demos. I've asked several times in different venues for several months and
have had very little response. So, I suspect that people mostly haven't had
a chance to get to V16 and use them yet. That makes this a good time to
think them through.

More thoughts and comments wanted! It would be helpful to everyone to hear
real-world stories about how you're finding object fields helpful. For my
money, I'm not likely to use them much. But, like any tool, it's good to
know how they work so that you can fit them to purpose. When there's a good
time to use an object field, I'll be glad to have already thought the
subject through enough to recognize the situation immediately.

Just to keep things in one place, here's where I can imagine using object
fields:

* Storing prefs, etc. Don't know if this is "proper" but it sure feels like
a good idea. I often use external JSON files for configuration data anyway.
Very handy.

* Storing messaging data. If I were to write another distributed,
record-based, task or message queue in 4D, I'd stuff the job/message data
into an object field in a heartbeat. That's a perfect use.

Where I won't use them, of don't expect to, is for making what amount to
"repeating fields." You know

Quarter_1_Total
Quarter_2_Total
Quarter_3_Total
Quarter_4_Total

...and then the financial years changes and you have to push figures down,
etc. That's just a bad design. I'm also now terribly likely to use them for
things like "aunt Mildred's phone number." I'd have a related table with a
keyword (key) and whatever the value is (value.) Same idea, different
implementation.

One tricky area that I suspect will come up for people are "type of"
relationships that don't work neatly in the relational model. As an
example, imagine that you've got a bunch of health care facilities. Some
are hospitals, some are clinics:

[Facility]
Type_"Hosptial" or "Clinic"

...now some fields only make sense for a hospital and some only make sense
for a clinic. Then again, a whole bunch of fields are identical for both.
What's the right design? I don't know. I'm not even sure what this
situation is called as a technical design problem. I do know that classical
ERD syntax has no vocabulary for 

Re: Thinking through object/text fields: Findings summarized, advice solicited

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

Right, good point about the SQL goof. I have a little test window for SQL
statements I use regularly for data exploration. Handy!  Double-click a
table name and automatically get a pre-built SELECT, etc. I had to update
it to scan the list of fields for object field types and exclude them. Pity.

This is a good place to mention there's an existing feature request on this
subject. (There may be multiple requests, actually.) Please vote:

Object Field Support in s?QL
http://forums.4d.fr/Post/EN/18268404/1/18268405
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Re: Facial Detection/recognition

[Peter Mew via 4D_Tech]

Thank You
That is really useful.
Could I prevail upon you to do the same for the other Functions.

PY_CROP_FACES

PY_CREATE_RECOGNIZER

PY_NORMALIZE_FACES

PY_PREDICT


Thanks, and good luck if you ever meet Monica


-pm

On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 5:35 PM, Balinder Walia 
wrote:

> Here you go:
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/14QuAxMDfuwBmoriAgTngV2A9vuXIp
> xQLQyEjf5yYZv8/edit?usp=sharing
>
> Let me know if you want more methods :-)
>
> It thinks I am Bill Clinton (at least my eyes are like him)...Perfect
> excuse if Monica Lewinsky stood in front of me. Hi Monica, it's Bal Clinton
> :-)
>
> On 14 July 2017 at 17:16, Peter Mew via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>> Im interested in playing with Facial Detection/Recognition, from within 4D
>> Ive found this demo database kb.4d.com/assetid=77536, in the knowledge
>> base.
>> However, I cant open it in v13.6, and while I can run it in a demo version
>> of v15, I cant open it in designer mode.
>> Could some one please open it and send me the code for one or more of the
>> functions eg
>>
>> PY_DETECT_FACES
>>   so I can see how 4D parameters are passed to and from Python via Launch
>> External Process
>> Thanks very much
>>
>> -pm
>> **
>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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>
>
>
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CROP A PDF DOCUMENT

[stardata.info via 4D_Tech]

Hi all,

I need to take a part of a pdf document and save this as a jpeg or png 
in one folder.

Is possible to do this using a 4D commands on windows?

Thanks
/Ferdinando/
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RE: User environment "List of Tables" Stuck - TeamViewer - Yech!

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

It looks like we also have a similar document on KB:
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77767

-Tim



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Re: Thinking through object/text fields: Findings summarized, advice solicited

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Julio,
I don't think 'variable structure' is necessarily the defining element.
It's certainly good for that but now that we can search on these fields
they're also good for situations where you want to allow each record to
have some large number of fields most of which won't ever be used but need
to be there. It's just sad to see a table in an old db with a hundred
fields, 20 or so marked "unused" and only 5 or 6 of which are actually
populated.

Perhaps this is what you are saying and I'm just reading too narrowly (it's
been that sort of week).

On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 1:49 AM, Julio Carneiro via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> On Jul 14, 2017, at 4:21 AM, David Adams via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Does that all sound about right? Am I missing reasons why I would want to
> > use object fields. vs. text fields? Any other technical details that
> people
> > have learned or figured out?
>
> I’d add that using an object field is only meaningful if your objects have
> a variable structure, that is, objects differ among records not just by
> contents but have a variable internal structure.
> If all objects in all records share a common structure, that is, they all
> have the same attributes (even if some are optional and may be empty/null),
> then go with standard 4D fields. As you pointed out, they take a lot less
> space, can be individually indexed/keyworded, are easier to deal with,
> their usage is syntax checked by compiler, etc..
>

-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing.*

*- Edmund Burke*
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RE: User environment "List of Tables" Stuck - TeamViewer - Yech!

[Randy Engle via 4D_Tech]

Tim,

Cool.  Thanks!

Randy Engle, Director
XC2 Software LLC – XC2LIVE!

-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Timothy Penner 
via 4D_Tech
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:38 PM
To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Timothy Penner 
Subject: RE: User environment "List of Tables" Stuck - TeamViewer - Yech!

I think disabling the "QuickConnect" option in TeamViewwer will correct the 
issue.

Here is a document put out by Sage.com regarding their Timeslips application 
and this issue:
https://support.na.sage.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=30978=1

-Tim



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RE: User environment "List of Tables" Stuck - TeamViewer - Yech!

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

I think disabling the "QuickConnect" option in TeamViewwer will correct the 
issue.

Here is a document put out by Sage.com regarding their Timeslips application 
and this issue:
https://support.na.sage.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=30978=1

-Tim



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Re: User environment "List of Tables" Stuck - TeamViewer - Yech!

[Adam Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Must be my problem too. Though it would only happen on my windows 10
machine.
My mac is unaffected by the issue.

Adam Bevan
Developer & CEO, Argus Productions Inc.



On 13 July 2017 at 21:07, Randy Engle via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> I seem to have found the culprit!:  TeamViewer
>
> A client wanted me to use this to access his system remotely.
>
> I was previously considering buying TeamViewer for our support (over
> Webex).
>
> What a giant PITB!
>
> Randy Engle
> XC2 Software LLC – XC2LIVE!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Randy
> Engle via 4D_Tech
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 7:58 PM
> To: '4D iNug Technical' <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Cc: Randy Engle <4d.l...@xc2.us>
> Subject: User environment "List of Tables" Stuck - Arrrgghhh!!!
>
> Just today in the last hour or two:
>
> When viewing user environment, display the "List of Tables"
>
> It appears in the middle of the screen, small squarish window.
> Can't move it, can't enlarge it.
>
> Cant' scroll through list.
>
> Can select displayed tables, nothing else
>
> "List of Tables" menu item has no effect.
>
> Also, property list for any form is in the same state.
> Exactly Same location as Table List window, can't move it, resize it.
>
> Happens with any 4D DB,
> Created a new one.
> Used another instance of 4D
>
> Restarted machine, threw out "window bounds"  (This is v15r5 - Windows -
> been using this for a few months, no problem) Chanted Krishna, did the
> hokey-pokey, etc.
>
> Currently re-installing.
>
> WTF ???
>
> Any ideas, voodoo?
>
> Thanks
>
> Randy Engle
> XC2 Software LLC – XC2LIVE!
>
>
> **
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Re: Facial Detection/recognition

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

IFTFU:

It thinks I am Bill Clinton (at least my eyes are like him)...Perfect
excuse if Monica Lewinsky stood in front of me. Hi Monica, it's Ball 
Clinton

:)

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 17:35:54 +0100, Balinder Walia via 4D_Tech wrote:
> It thinks I am Bill Clinton (at least my eyes are like him)...Perfect
> excuse if Monica Lewinsky stood in front of me. Hi Monica, it's Bal Clinton
---
Gas is for washing parts
Alcohol is for drinkin'
Nitromethane is for racing 
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Re: Facial Detection/recognition

[Balinder Walia via 4D_Tech]

Here you go:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14QuAxMDfuwBmoriAgTngV2A9vuXIpxQLQyEjf5yYZv8/edit?usp=sharing

Let me know if you want more methods :-)

It thinks I am Bill Clinton (at least my eyes are like him)...Perfect
excuse if Monica Lewinsky stood in front of me. Hi Monica, it's Bal Clinton
:-)

On 14 July 2017 at 17:16, Peter Mew via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> Hi
> Im interested in playing with Facial Detection/Recognition, from within 4D
> Ive found this demo database kb.4d.com/assetid=77536, in the knowledge
> base.
> However, I cant open it in v13.6, and while I can run it in a demo version
> of v15, I cant open it in designer mode.
> Could some one please open it and send me the code for one or more of the
> functions eg
>
> PY_DETECT_FACES
>   so I can see how 4D parameters are passed to and from Python via Launch
> External Process
> Thanks very much
>
> -pm
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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Facial Detection/recognition

[Peter Mew via 4D_Tech]

Hi
Im interested in playing with Facial Detection/Recognition, from within 4D
Ive found this demo database kb.4d.com/assetid=77536, in the knowledge base.
However, I cant open it in v13.6, and while I can run it in a demo version
of v15, I cant open it in designer mode.
Could some one please open it and send me the code for one or more of the
functions eg

PY_DETECT_FACES
  so I can see how 4D parameters are passed to and from Python via Launch
External Process
Thanks very much

-pm
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Re: Getting Computer and OS Info

[Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech]

Canon,

This seems to work, on my MacBook at any rate. Can’t help with Windows.

C_TEXT($in;$out;$pattern;$model;$swVersion)
LAUNCH EXTERNAL PROCESS("/usr/sbin/system_profiler SPHardwareDataType 
SPSoftwareDataType";$in;$out)

ARRAY LONGINT($starts;0)
ARRAY LONGINT($lens;0)

$pattern:="(?m)Model Name: (.*)$(?s:.*)System Version: (.*)"
Match regex($pattern;$out;1;$starts;$lens)

$model:=Substring($out;$starts{1};$lens{1})
$swVersion:=Substring($out;$starts{2};$lens{2})


Jeremy

Jeremy Roussak
j...@mac.com



> On 13 Jul 2017, at 18:11, Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I’d like to programmatically get two pieces of system information from within 
> 4D.
> 
> 1. Model name. Ex. "MacBook Pro" or "Inspiron 24 3000".
> 2. OS Version. Ex. "Windows 7.1 SP2" or "macOS 10.12.5"
> 
> It needs to work for both platforms. Does anyone have some code to do this 
> they wouldn’t mind sharing?
> 
> Thanks!

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RE: Folder separator constant

[David Ringsmuth via 4D_Tech]

Tim,



It seems possible to me that there is another option for the “Folder separator” 
character.

On startup the address for this character is populated with the correct value.

Thereafter it is retrieved as any other constant.

I’m guessing it is determined in runtime, most likely at startup.

I’m glad you think about such things.

David Ringsmuth

From: Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 8:24 PM
To: 4d_tech@lists.4d.com
Cc: Tim Nevels
Subject: Re: Folder separator constant

On Jul 13, 2017, at 6:47 PM,Wayne Stewart wrote:

> Mind you it took me a long time to discover the Folder separator constant!!



Now here is a great feature implemented in the wrong way. It confuses a 
programmers logical sensibility. 

“Folder separator” constant. It is a “constant”. Constants have a single value. 
Right? 

“Folder separator” constant has whatever value it correct depending on the 
platform it is running on. If on macOS it is colon “:”. On Windows is it back 
slash “\”. 

Compile your database. Run a method on macOS and you get one value for “Folder 
constant” and a different value on Windows. Client side, server side, it 
doesn’t matter. Runtime determines the value not compiling. 

But I thought constants were evaluated and resolved at compile time. Isn’t that 
the way it works in all other programming languages? A constant is a single 
value hard coded into the program code by the compiler. 

So 4D Compiler must treat this “constant” differently from other constants. The 
4D compiler must code this as a function that gets evaluated at runtime. 4D 
what were you thinking! 

Was it so terrible to make “Folder separator” into a function like “Application 
type”? Or did some engineer have the intense need and desire to see “Folder 
separator” show up in the method editor as a constant. Damn the semantics of it 
all! It may look like a constant, but it’s not. It is secretly a function.

From a programmers point of view it sure seems like an odd decision to me. 


This has always bugged me. I just had to finally get it off my chest. :)

Tim


Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com


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Re: Thinking through object/text fields: Findings summarized, advice solicited

[Jim Hays via 4D_Tech]

> * Unless you need the object field index & search, there is exactly *no
> reason* to use an object field instead of a text field.
We have a need for customers to create their own fields - dates, numbers,
texts, possibly pictures.
Haven't actually done it yet, but we expect that Object fields will be
ideal for our needs.
Some of the UI capabilities of Object fields look great.

(We have had a nicely normalized, but text data type only version for many
years).

Jim Hays
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Re: Very Simple Way to Access Server with Two Copies of Remote from the Same Machine

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

I assumed same server.

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 14:09:26 +, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech wrote:
> I don't think it is necessary to create copies if you are connecting 
> to different servers.
> 
> just use
> 
> open -n
> 
> 
https://developer.apple.com/legacy/library/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man1/open.1.html
> 
> but you do need to create a copy and give it a ClientLocal folder
> if you need to connect multiple client to the same server.
> 
>> 2017/07/14 22:46、Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> の
>> メール：
>> 
>> on a Mac, assume similar for Windows.
>> Create as many copies of the application as needed,
>> open and 'point' to server.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Very Simple Way to Access Server with Two Copies of Remote from the Same Machine

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

I don't think it is necessary to create copies if you are connecting to 
different servers.

just use

open -n

https://developer.apple.com/legacy/library/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man1/open.1.html

but you do need to create a copy and give it a ClientLocal folder
if you need to connect multiple client to the same server.

> 2017/07/14 22:46、Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
>
> on a Mac, assume similar for Windows.
> Create as many copies of the application as needed,
> open and 'point' to server.




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Re: v13+ - How to do a 'Find in array' with a picture array?

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

Thanks for the pointers to Hashing functions!

Im putting together a file re-namer utility.
drag n drop file from file system to 4D window, allow the user to do 
various renaming functions with the files/folders.  
i.e. add/change/remove an extension, rename, make visible/invisible, 
add/remove characters, Case manipulation etc.

In 4D the file system objects are displayed in an array based list box.
I display a small icon (screen grab of generic file and folder icons) 
to visually show the user what the file system object is.

I thought that since I already had this data tied to the row (file or 
folder) I could use it, the icon/picture, rather then have to 
'duplicate' this data. Some functions pertain only to files - filename 
extensions, and some pertain only to folders -  with content.

It was simpler to just 'duplicate' the data by saving a file system 
object type into another array; then to pursue using the icon/picture 
as the key, especially as  FIND IN ARRAY doesn't work on pictures.

Chip
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 14:00:45 +1000, David Adams via 4D_Tech wrote:
> I don't really understand you're using icons as keys, but if you do go with
> a hashing solution (clever idea!), the HashTools component from some years
> back supports text, blobs, pictures, and documents. It offers a variety of
> hash functions. Instead of an 'expensive' cryptographically oriented hash
> like MD5, the HashTools functions return a simple longint quite quickly.
> This is the sort of hashing you would normally use for calculating what
> "bucket" to put data in within a hash table, for example.
> 
> The HashTools Component
> http://kb.4d.com/assetid=41107
> 
> Optimizing Searches with Hashes
> http://kb.4d.com/assetid=41108
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Re: Very Simple Way to Access Server with Two Copies of Remote from the Same Machine

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

on a Mac, assume similar for Windows.
Create as many copies of the application as needed, 
open and 'point' to server.

My dock has 7 4D icons in it. (3 v13, 2 v12, 2 v11) 


On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 09:13:35 +1000, Wayne Stewart via 4D_Tech wrote:
> Doug,
> 
> I think you've been asleep at the wheel for a while!!  That's dated 2011
> and I'm sure I can remember doing it in v2004.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> [image: --]
> Wayne Stewart
> [image: http://]about.me/waynestewart
> 
> 
> 
> On 14 July 2017 at 09:06, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> kb.4D.com is a wealth of info about 4D and, as much as I try to learn and
>> incorporate new tools and techniques, this one passed under my radar.
>> 
>> I was reading some of Miyako's comments on the Forum a few months ago and
>> he mentioned the ability to run two copies of 4D Remote on the same OS on
>> the same machine. Seeing that I'm working on an app that uses main event
>> loop and opens a small, fixed-size window this tech note was a
>> huge productivity booster.
>> 
>> Check out this tech note - http://kb.4d.com/assetid=76425
>> 
>> --
>> Douglas von Roeder
>> 949-336-2902
>> **
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RE: v13+ - How to do a 'Find in array' with a picture array?

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

this will work, as the icon is the picture.

Thanks

On Thu, 13 Jul 2017 20:26:51 +, Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech wrote:
> Another approach instead of comparing MD5 hashes, could be to compare 
> the pictures directly using the EQUAL PICTURES command (created in 
> v13):
> http://livedoc.4d.com/4Dv15.4/help/Command/en/page2647.html
> 
> if(Equal Pictures (icon{1};pic1;$mask))
> // do something for Pic1
> End if
> if(Equal Pictures (icon{1};pic2;$mask))
> // do something for Pic2
> End if
> 
> However, if the Icon is not actually equal to the Picture then I 
> don’t think either MD5 nor Equal Pictures will help - both of these 
> approaches would depend on it being identical (not a lower resolution 
> icon). If the icon is lower resolution than the original then the 
> hash would be different, so the hash lookup would no longer work.
> 
> -Tim
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Getting Computer and OS Info

[Bruno LEGAY via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

On Windows you can use "wmic" to access this kind of information (LEP).

On Mac OS X you can use "system_profiler" (LEP).

I'll send you some sample code to do this.

HTH
Bruno 
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Re: Wiki software: Confluence

[Bruno LEGAY via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

We have been using wikis for more than 10 years and we love them. I did write 
post on the nug about it.

We use it internally for everything, information on clients, projects, 
application version history, meeting reports/minutes, standard procedures, 
coding practice, naming convention rules, etc...
Basically all the information which we want to share...
And wikis are searchable... 

We managed to convince client to use them for online documentation linked to 
their own knowledge base. And this works great.
We configured each screen of our application to a corresponding url to the 
wiki. Clicking on the help button opens the corresponding wiki page in a window 
with a web area.

We are using an old wiki (we chose it in 2005) : JSPWiki (open source, free as 
in beer). It is now under the Apache foundation but is does not seem that 
active/popular.
In particular there is no graphical interface do editing pages...
But we learnt the basic syntax and it feels natural...
Our wiki runs on Tomcat on a linux box
The wiki syntax is not standard so migrating data from one wiki product to 
another is a bit daunting.

I know of Confluence and Jira, but, to be honest, I did not try them. I know 
that Atlassian products are very good.

We started to use "redmine" (open source, free as in beer) for bug tracking 
(migrating from another bug tracking product Track+ which was a commercial 
product). It is just a beginning with this tool but I like it. 
Again, migrating from one tool to another is daunting. We will slowly migrate 
and keep the old tool for historic data.

Great to hear other people are using wikis and love them :-)

PS : also, take a look at Trello, it is a great online tool (think of agile, 
posit notes, online collaborative tool)...
Trello has been bough by Atlassian beginning of 2017 for $425M.
Trello is free (as in beer, for the time being).

HTH
Bruno


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Re: Thinking through object/text fields: Findings summarized, advice solicited

[Walt Nelson via 4D_Tech]

David,

Given that 4D and Wakanda use the same data engine (from my limited 
understanding of Wakanda, I believe they do), have you spoken to anyone on the 
Wakanda team about your concerns/questions?

Just thought I would throw that into the mix.

Thanks,
Walt Nelson (Seattle)
New stuff coming!
www.foundationshell.com
w...@foundationshell.com

> On Jul 13, 2017, at 10:21 PM, David Adams via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Having just started looking at object fields and learned a few things, I
> have a few thoughts. For background, I've been using 4D's C_OBJECT and
> ARRAY OBJECT for some time, and now I'm looking at object fields. I think
> that I've gotten a grip on some of the details through experimentation,
> help from people on this list, and help from people on the 4D Forums in
> France.

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Re: Thinking through object/text fields: Findings summarized, advice solicited

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

John,

Good point thanks. That could be a meaningful help in a situation where 4D
is being used to generate JSON blocks to pump out to another system. That's
exactly what I'm thinking about. 4D doesn't have built in data analysis or
visualization tools (well, there is sort of graph feature, but it's just a
toy.) Anyway, there are *tons* of amazing visualization tools and platforms
out there now so pumping out CSV/TSV/JSON is sometimes the whole goal.
Saving 50% on the storage space is a big win.

Thanks!
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Re: Thinking through object/text fields: Findings summarized, advice solicited

[John DeSoi via 4D_Tech]

If storage space is a primary constraint and object indexing is not needed, you 
can use a blob to store as UTF-8 text. 

VARIABLE TO BLOB with object uses UTF-8 text (tested 15.4, not 16).

In your example where you basically wanted to store an object array directly, 
you could stringify the array then text to blob field with UTF-8.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.



> On Jul 13, 2017, at 11:21 PM, David Adams via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> * The previous point is _only_ a concern to people (like me) that are
> trying to store and process a lot of data. Also (in my case), I'm storing
> fully prepared JSON for export to/interaction with other systems. So, using
> tables as a JSON repository, not because there is any reason to search the
> JSON. The JSON is an output product. In such a case, it makes sense to push
> the data out to something where you can use a smaller character set
> (Latin1, UTF8), if you can get away with it. If you're storing Chinese
> surnames, you need UTF16 (I think), if you're storing numbers, you may only
> need Latin1.

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Re: Thinking through object/text fields: Findings summarized, advice solicited

[Jim Dorrance via 4D_Tech]

I agree... If the structure is fixed and the values need to be visualised,I:

Store in specific arrays.
Arrays to blob.
Blob to field (or Document).

To visualise:
Blob from Document or field
Blob to arrays
Arrays to Listbox
and my QuerySort component to search etc

On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Julio Carneiro via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> On Jul 14, 2017, at 4:21 AM, David Adams via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Does that all sound about right? Am I missing reasons why I would want to
> > use object fields. vs. text fields? Any other technical details that
> people
> > have learned or figured out?
>
> I’d add that using an object field is only meaningful if your objects have
> a variable structure, that is, objects differ among records not just by
> contents but have a variable internal structure.
> If all objects in all records share a common structure, that is, they all
> have the same attributes (even if some are optional and may be empty/null),
> then go with standard 4D fields. As you pointed out, they take a lot less
> space, can be individually indexed/keyworded, are easier to deal with,
> their usage is syntax checked by compiler, etc..
>
> Just my $.02
> --
> Julio Carneiro
> jjfo...@gmail.com
>
>
>
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-- 
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PS: If you know of anyone that needs an experienced 4D programmer to add
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Re: Thinking through object/text fields: Findings summarized, advice solicited

[Julio Carneiro via 4D_Tech]

On Jul 14, 2017, at 4:21 AM, David Adams via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
wrote:
> 
> Does that all sound about right? Am I missing reasons why I would want to
> use object fields. vs. text fields? Any other technical details that people
> have learned or figured out?

I’d add that using an object field is only meaningful if your objects have a 
variable structure, that is, objects differ among records not just by contents 
but have a variable internal structure.
If all objects in all records share a common structure, that is, they all have 
the same attributes (even if some are optional and may be empty/null), then go 
with standard 4D fields. As you pointed out, they take a lot less space, can be 
individually indexed/keyworded, are easier to deal with, their usage is syntax 
checked by compiler, etc..

Just my $.02
--
Julio Carneiro
jjfo...@gmail.com



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