Re: 4D v17 Property List Issues - is this only me?

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

what if you create a new user account on the same Mac,
login as the other user, and use 4D from that Desktop?

I ask, because I've had similar experiences with M. Excel in the past,
where (maybe) the preferences info plist file or some other support file was 
corrupt in my primary account.

2019/10/03 7:42、Guy Algot via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:

Same problem for me. I’m using v17.2 now and its gotten better. The delay has 
varied since v17. v17 was almost unusable for me.



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Re: Foundation Shell

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

James:

I hope that works out.

Please keep us posted. Foundation is part of the 4D ecosystem and it would
be good to know its status.

--
Douglas von Roeder
949-910-4084


On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 2:39 PM James Wright 
wrote:

> Thanks Douglas,
>
> I've reached out to Walt.
>
> Best
>
> James.
>
> On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 20:59, Douglas von Roeder 
> wrote:
>
>> James:
>>
>> Sorry to see that the website is no longer active.
>>
>> The only email address that I’ve got for Walt is Foundation Walt <
>> w...@foundationshell.com>.
>>
>> If Foundation is no longer available on a commercial basis, perhaps Walt
>> would provide you with a license at no charge.
>>
>> --
>> Douglas von Roeder
>> 949-910-4084
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 5:16 AM James Wright via 4D_Tech <
>> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Folks,
>>>
>>> Looking to start a new desktop project (Who would've thought!). In the
>>> past
>>> I used Foundation Shell, it was awesome.
>>>
>>> I noticed the site isn't active anymore, can anyone recommend an
>>> alternative? Or do I have to roll my own?
>>>
>>> v17.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> James.
>>>
>>> --
>>> [image: logo]
>>> *James Wright* C.T.O.*, Drag and Drop*
>>> Tel: 08000 43 22 12 | Suite 6/7 Chichester House, 45 Chichester Road,
>>> Southend-on-Sea, Essex SS1 2JU
>>> supp...@draganddrop.co.uk | www.ezadspro.co.uk | www.draganddrop.co.uk
>>> **
>>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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>>> **
>>
>>
>
> --
> [image: logo]
> *James Wright* C.T.O.*, Drag and Drop*
> Tel: 08000 43 22 12 | Suite 6/7 Chichester House, 45 Chichester Road,
> Southend-on-Sea, Essex SS1 2JU
> supp...@draganddrop.co.uk | www.ezadspro.co.uk | www.draganddrop.co.uk
>
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Re: Foundation Shell

[James Wright via 4D_Tech]

Thanks Douglas,

I've reached out to Walt.

Best

James.

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 20:59, Douglas von Roeder 
wrote:

> James:
>
> Sorry to see that the website is no longer active.
>
> The only email address that I’ve got for Walt is Foundation Walt <
> w...@foundationshell.com>.
>
> If Foundation is no longer available on a commercial basis, perhaps Walt
> would provide you with a license at no charge.
>
> --
> Douglas von Roeder
> 949-910-4084
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 5:16 AM James Wright via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> Looking to start a new desktop project (Who would've thought!). In the
>> past
>> I used Foundation Shell, it was awesome.
>>
>> I noticed the site isn't active anymore, can anyone recommend an
>> alternative? Or do I have to roll my own?
>>
>> v17.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> James.
>>
>> --
>> [image: logo]
>> *James Wright* C.T.O.*, Drag and Drop*
>> Tel: 08000 43 22 12 | Suite 6/7 Chichester House, 45 Chichester Road,
>> Southend-on-Sea, Essex SS1 2JU
>> supp...@draganddrop.co.uk | www.ezadspro.co.uk | www.draganddrop.co.uk
>> **
>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
>> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
>> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
>> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
>> **
>
>

-- 
[image: logo]
*James Wright* C.T.O.*, Drag and Drop*
Tel: 08000 43 22 12 | Suite 6/7 Chichester House, 45 Chichester Road,
Southend-on-Sea, Essex SS1 2JU
supp...@draganddrop.co.uk | www.ezadspro.co.uk | www.draganddrop.co.uk
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Re: Difference between loading a compiled and interpreted component

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

I just finished checking all custom constants for:
duplication between component and host custom constants as well as
checking the custom constants against duplication of 4D constants, host 
and component method names

No duplication was found.

still looking for ideas

CHip


On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 14:35:46 -0400, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech wrote:
> Beat you to that idea
> 
> I have done a check for that.
> symbol tables from both host and component
> cross checked against the other's methods
> 
> On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 20:11:18 +0200, Peter Bozek wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 7:37 PM Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <
>> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Repair, Compact, Repair of Host structure, and Repair of Host data file
>>> Does not solve the problem.
>>> 
>>> Chip
>>> 
>> 
>> This is rather very far-fetched idea, but once I run into similar problems
>> when I had a variable in master database that had identical name as a
>> method in component (or vice versa?) It seem that scope separation between
>> component and master database does not take such possibilities into 
>> account.
>> 
>> However, I got a crash only when I tried to display form containing the
>> variable.
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Peter Bozek
> ---
> Gas is for washing parts
> Alcohol is for drinkin'
> Nitromethane is for racing 
> **
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Re: Foundation Shell

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

James:

Sorry to see that the website is no longer active.

The only email address that I’ve got for Walt is Foundation Walt <
w...@foundationshell.com>.

If Foundation is no longer available on a commercial basis, perhaps Walt
would provide you with a license at no charge.

--
Douglas von Roeder
949-910-4084


On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 5:16 AM James Wright via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> Looking to start a new desktop project (Who would've thought!). In the past
> I used Foundation Shell, it was awesome.
>
> I noticed the site isn't active anymore, can anyone recommend an
> alternative? Or do I have to roll my own?
>
> v17.
>
> Thanks
>
> James.
>
> --
> [image: logo]
> *James Wright* C.T.O.*, Drag and Drop*
> Tel: 08000 43 22 12 | Suite 6/7 Chichester House, 45 Chichester Road,
> Southend-on-Sea, Essex SS1 2JU
> supp...@draganddrop.co.uk | www.ezadspro.co.uk | www.draganddrop.co.uk
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
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Re: v15 - automatted primary key for new tables

[Narinder Chandi via 4D_Tech]

This is standard since v14. From the docs:

"Note: Starting with 4D v14, any new table created in the database contains a 
primary key field by default. For more information about this, refer to Default 
primary key field."
https://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15.6/Creating-and-modifying-tables.300-3836651.en.html

You can control the name of the Primary Key in Preferences -> Structure.

Regards,
 
Narinder Chandi,
ToolBox Systems Ltd.
 
I am available for new consulting opportunities…
http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/ANN-4D-Developer-Available-td5765443.html
-- 

-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com> on behalf of 4D Tech Mailing List 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Reply-To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Date: Wednesday, 2 October 2019 at 20:43
To: 4D Tech Mailing List <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org>
Subject: v15 - automatted primary key for new tables

I am going to ignore the problem I have been having and start a new 
project.

I created a new database, and added a table.
the new table automatically added a primary key field

Where is this setting/option accessed?
maybe this is the issue I am having?

Chip

---
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Alcohol is for drinkin'
Nitromethane is for racing 
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v15 - automatted primary key for new tables

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

I am going to ignore the problem I have been having and start a new 
project.

I created a new database, and added a table.
the new table automatically added a primary key field

Where is this setting/option accessed?
maybe this is the issue I am having?

Chip

---
Gas is for washing parts
Alcohol is for drinkin'
Nitromethane is for racing 
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Re: Difference between loading a compiled and interpreted component

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

Beat you to that idea

I have done a check for that.
symbol tables from both host and component
cross checked against the other's methods

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 20:11:18 +0200, Peter Bozek wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 7:37 PM Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> Repair, Compact, Repair of Host structure, and Repair of Host data file
>> Does not solve the problem.
>> 
>> Chip
>> 
> 
> This is rather very far-fetched idea, but once I run into similar problems
> when I had a variable in master database that had identical name as a
> method in component (or vice versa?) It seem that scope separation between
> component and master database does not take such possibilities into account.
> 
> However, I got a crash only when I tried to display form containing the
> variable.
> 
> --
> 
> Peter Bozek
---
Gas is for washing parts
Alcohol is for drinkin'
Nitromethane is for racing 
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Re: Difference between loading a compiled and interpreted component

[Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech]

On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 7:37 PM Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Repair, Compact, Repair of Host structure, and Repair of Host data file
> Does not solve the problem.
>
> Chip
>

This is rather very far-fetched idea, but once I run into similar problems
when I had a variable in master database that had identical name as a
method in component (or vice versa?) It seem that scope separation between
component and master database does not take such possibilities into account.

However, I got a crash only when I tried to display form containing the
variable.

--

Peter Bozek
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Re: Difference between loading a compiled and interpreted component

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

Repair, Compact, Repair of Host structure, and Repair of Host data file
Does not solve the problem.

Chip


P.S
>and there are no variables in 
> the host which have a host method name.
Should read:
and there are no variables in 
the component which have a host method name.

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 13:23:33 -0400, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech wrote:
> I also created the symbol table for both host and component, and 
> checked that there are no variables which have the same name as any 
> method in both.
> I.E. there are no variables in the Host which have the same name as 
> either the host, or component's methods, and there are no variables in 
> the host which have a host method name.
> 
> I am sure that the issue is not custom constants, as I removed the xlif 
> files and still have the stack overflow error.
> 
> Chip
>  
> On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 14:36:05 +, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech wrote:
>> I don't think the events are relevant in this instance.
>> 
>> what if you create a copy of the component and make all methods 
>> private (don't share with host) ?
>> 
>> would you still get the error?
>> 
>> if the error stops, you know that a shared method is being invoked.
>> 
>> in that case, you can add a trace at the top of every public method.
>> 
>> again, using a copy, just to investigate what's going on.
>> 
>>> I can not figure out what is running, and whatever is running, I 
>>> can't interrupt (debugger)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> **
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Re: Difference between loading a compiled and interpreted component

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

I also created the symbol table for both host and component, and 
checked that there are no variables which have the same name as any 
method in both.
I.E. there are no variables in the Host which have the same name as 
either the host, or component's methods, and there are no variables in 
the host which have a host method name.

I am sure that the issue is not custom constants, as I removed the xlif 
files and still have the stack overflow error.

Chip
 
On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 14:36:05 +, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech wrote:
> I don't think the events are relevant in this instance.
> 
> what if you create a copy of the component and make all methods 
> private (don't share with host) ?
> 
> would you still get the error?
> 
> if the error stops, you know that a shared method is being invoked.
> 
> in that case, you can add a trace at the top of every public method.
> 
> again, using a copy, just to investigate what's going on.
> 
>> I can not figure out what is running, and whatever is running, I 
>> can't interrupt (debugger)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **
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Re: Web aficionados - Not allow user to access file directly

[Tom DeMeo via 4D_Tech]

Hi,


A few commenters have suggested placing a 4D Web server behind a proxy server.

The problem as described can be very easily solved with very little change in 
complexity and without involving other technologies. One of the reasons we all 
use 4D is that it allows us to solve problems with less complexity. I suggest 
that developers should try to use just the 4D web server unless you have a good 
reason not to.  

Most of the time when I’ve encountered more complex web architectures involving 
4D and other technologies, it didn’t solve much of anything and just made 
maintenance and development more difficult.

Can anyone come up with an anecdote of any actual exploited vulnerabilities of 
a well constructed 4D web site?



Tom DeMeo
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Re: v15 - what code runs before On Startup?

[Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech]

Hi chip

This is what I would do I would create a new component. I would open old 
component with problem and move half of the methods in. Try and run with that 
if it works I would quit and move half the remaining methods. Continue to do 
this until you find the offending one

Regards 

Chuck

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 30, 2019, at 5:58 PM, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I have a component which I am trying to debug. The host is interpreted, 
> stand alone.
> 
> When the component is compiled and built the host starts, but of course 
> I can not trace the code in the component - from which I am getting an 
> error message.
> 
> When I swap in the interpreted version of the component, during 
> database startup I get an error not enough memory (obviously stuck in a 
> loop). 
> 
> However, currently the very first line of code in the host ON STARTUP 
> is TRACE.
> The not enough memory error is presented BEFORE the trace is hit.
> 
> The ON STARTUP of the component is empty (no code).
> 
> What code could be running?
> 
> Thanks
> Chip
> ---
> Gas is for washing parts
> Alcohol is for drinkin'
> Nitromethane is for racing 
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Re: v15 - what code runs before On Startup?

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

That occurred to me...
there are no startup method specified for any user.
To insure this - for the user I am logging into the system with, I 
cleared (delete key x ???) the startup method field

Chip

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 14:54:37 +, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech wrote:
> also there can be per-user startup methods defined (see Toolbox, Users)
> 
>> 2019/10/02 23:38、Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>の
>> メール:
>> 
>> deprecated in recent versions,
>> but a project method named "startup" or "debut" is reserved (v3 
>> startup procedure)
>> in legacy databases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: v15 - what code runs before On Startup?

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

I did not think so - but I checked...
There is no method 'Startup', although there are methods in both host 
and component which contain the word 'Startup';
ex: strt_SingleUser_Client_Startup

There are no methods in either host of component which are or contain 
'debut'

Chip



On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 14:38:33 +, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech wrote:
> deprecated in recent versions,
> but a project method named "startup" or "debut" is reserved (v3 
> startup procedure)
> in legacy databases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **
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Re: v15 - what code runs before On Startup?

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

also there can be per-user startup methods defined (see Toolbox, Users)

> 2019/10/02 23:38、Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:
>
> deprecated in recent versions,
> but a project method named "startup" or "debut" is reserved (v3 startup 
> procedure)
> in legacy databases.




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Re: 4D v17 Property List Issues - is this only me?

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

is this in project mode or binary structure mode?

the project mode property list / form editor is still in beta.

> 2019/10/02 0:44、Daniel Solenthaler via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:
>
> In 4D v17R5 I click onto a cell of the property list and nothing happens. It 
> takes 3 seconds and a „slow double click“ to highlight the cell content.




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Re: v15 - what code runs before On Startup?

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

deprecated in recent versions,
but a project method named "startup" or "debut" is reserved (v3 startup 
procedure)
in legacy databases.




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Re: Difference between loading a compiled and interpreted component

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

good idea!
I'll try and report back

THANKS!
On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 14:36:05 +, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech wrote:
> I don't think the events are relevant in this instance.
> 
> what if you create a copy of the component and make all methods 
> private (don't share with host) ?
> 
> would you still get the error?
> 
> if the error stops, you know that a shared method is being invoked.
> 
> in that case, you can add a trace at the top of every public method.
> 
> again, using a copy, just to investigate what's going on.
> 
>> I can not figure out what is running, and whatever is running, I 
>> can't interrupt (debugger)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **
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Re: Difference between loading a compiled and interpreted component

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

I don't think the events are relevant in this instance.

what if you create a copy of the component and make all methods private (don't 
share with host) ?

would you still get the error?

if the error stops, you know that a shared method is being invoked.

in that case, you can add a trace at the top of every public method.

again, using a copy, just to investigate what's going on.

> I can not figure out what is running, and whatever is running, I can't 
> interrupt (debugger)




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Re: v12 and El Capitan ?

[Janie Marlow via 4D_Tech]

Thank you, Chip. That is very helpful to know.

I'm pretty sure that I remember others on this list who have mentioned that 
they have used v12 on 10.11. I would really like to hear from some of them too -

Wonder, has anybody out there done any development with v12 on 10.11, and what 
kinds of issues did you run into?

Thanks!



> On September 25, 2019 at 10:01 AM Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> I mis spoke -
> I'm sorry if this mis-lead anyone.
> 
> I have run v12 on 10.11.9 - but only single user, and have not done any 
> development with it.
> when I said I had/was using v11 - for some reason I conflated v11 and 
> v13.
> 
> Chip
> 
> On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 16:02:24 -0400, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech wrote:
> > well... I am having no issues with v11 on El Capitan (10.11.6)
> > I have no issue with development, and no issues with clients -
> > however, my server is running 10.9.6, as I have to jump through hoops 
> > to update the server OS.
> > 
> > Chip
> > 
> > On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 15:50:41 -0400 (EDT), Janie Marlow via 4D_Tech 
> > wrote:
> >> Occasionally I've read here that some of you have used 4D v12 on El 
> >> Capitan (OS 10.11.6).
> >> 
> >> Software/hardware issues are tempting me to try that --  for a short 
> >> period of time at least --
> >> or is this something you would warn me away from?
> >> 
> >> What kinds of issues can I expect to encounter? 
> >> 
> >> Thank you -
> >> Janie Marlow
> >> **
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Foundation Shell

[James Wright via 4D_Tech]

Hi Folks,

Looking to start a new desktop project (Who would've thought!). In the past
I used Foundation Shell, it was awesome.

I noticed the site isn't active anymore, can anyone recommend an
alternative? Or do I have to roll my own?

v17.

Thanks

James.

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Tel: 08000 43 22 12 | Suite 6/7 Chichester House, 45 Chichester Road,
Southend-on-Sea, Essex SS1 2JU
supp...@draganddrop.co.uk | www.ezadspro.co.uk | www.draganddrop.co.uk
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Re: Difference between loading a compiled and interpreted component

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

> perhaps you can export the symbols file and see if there are any 
> global symbols (process variable, project method) that could be 
> invoked unintentionally.
> 
> it sounds like a method is being called recursively.
I agree with this assessment - except -
the stack overflow error occurs BEFORE either
On Startup (host) and On before Host startup (component)

I can not figure out what is running, and whatever is running, I can't 
interrupt (debugger) 

 
> 
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Hell is other people 
 Jean-Paul Sartre
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Re: Difference between loading a compiled and interpreted component

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

perhaps you can export the symbols file and see if there are any global symbols 
(process variable, project method) that could be invoked unintentionally.

it sounds like a method is being called recursively.



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Re: Web aficionados - Not allow user to access file directly

[Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech]

I place nginx as a proxy in front of 4d. Its very straightforward and can run
on linux and windows. Nginx runs the public port and can serve all static
resources images css etc.  You can use lets encrypt for free ssl. This way
the proxy to 4D can run on http to say port 8080 which is faster and 4D
server is not exposed to internet. There sould be some toer posts on Nug
about this.
Cheers
Paul



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Re: [repost - desperate]What runs before ON STARTUP?

[Bernd Fröhlich via 4D_Tech]

Chip Scheide:

> Thanks!
> I did use MCS to repair both the host and the component.
> I removed both .indy files and tried again...
> 
> Still not luck - still getting the stack space error.

Have you tried as another user / on another computer?
Just to make sure that it is not something in that specific setup that is 
causing the problem.

Greetings from Germany,
Bernd Fröhlich
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