Re: Worker and UI

2020-03-27 Thread Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech 
Peter:

I’ve been using Call worker to display a large ALP Area - 3k to 30k rows
and 115 columns. The UI supports a palette that communicates with all of
the windows and the windows communicate with each other so that when a
value is changed in one window, Call form is used to initiate the update of
the display in the other windows. Some of the windows are array-based
AreaList Pro areas, others use AreaList Pro displaying records.

"But will try to do a simple test database to check it out.”
Sounds like a good idea.

--
Douglas von Roeder
949-910-4084


On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 2:19 PM Peter Bozek  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 9:14 PM Douglas von Roeder 
> wrote:
>
>> Peter:
>>
>>  "My understanding of a worker is a process that can (potentially) run on
>> different core or processor - what means, communicating with other
>> processes with messages only, limited ability to share data, no
>> interprocess variables, no GET / SET PROCESS VARIABLE and no UI.”
>> I don’t see anything that indicates that the means by which a process is
>> created impacts whether or not that process runs preemptively. Most UI
>> commands are not preemptive.
>>
>
> I believe that above commands cannot be used with workers even if worker
> does not run preemptive method.
>
>
>> "However, thinking about it, as user process is a worker, and it should
>> be able to display UI, collaborative workers may be able to display UI.”
>> Process 1 will display UI in V18, compiled.
>>
>> "But all 4D examples of worker's code use CALL FORM to display UI, so I
>> would not try to display UI from a worker."
>> Call form is a means of communicating with a form. It doesn’t tie back to
>> how a process is invoked.
>>
>
> In the examples, worker never displays UI, rather uses CALL FORM to
> display its status in form displayed in another process. As I understand
> it, it is not just because examples wanted to demonstrate communication
> between worker and another process, but a feature of worker - it needs
> another process to display UI. But will try to do a simple test database to
> check it out.
>
> Peter Bozek
>
>
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Re: Worker and UI

2020-03-27 Thread Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech 
On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 9:14 PM Douglas von Roeder 
wrote:

> Peter:
>
>  "My understanding of a worker is a process that can (potentially) run on
> different core or processor - what means, communicating with other
> processes with messages only, limited ability to share data, no
> interprocess variables, no GET / SET PROCESS VARIABLE and no UI.”
> I don’t see anything that indicates that the means by which a process is
> created impacts whether or not that process runs preemptively. Most UI
> commands are not preemptive.
>

I believe that above commands cannot be used with workers even if worker
does not run preemptive method.


> "However, thinking about it, as user process is a worker, and it should be
> able to display UI, collaborative workers may be able to display UI.”
> Process 1 will display UI in V18, compiled.
>
> "But all 4D examples of worker's code use CALL FORM to display UI, so I
> would not try to display UI from a worker."
> Call form is a means of communicating with a form. It doesn’t tie back to
> how a process is invoked.
>

In the examples, worker never displays UI, rather uses CALL FORM to display
its status in form displayed in another process. As I understand it, it is
not just because examples wanted to demonstrate communication between
worker and another process, but a feature of worker - it needs another
process to display UI. But will try to do a simple test database to check
it out.

Peter Bozek
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Re: Worker and UI

2020-03-27 Thread Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech 
Peter:

 "My understanding of a worker is a process that can (potentially) run on
different core or processor - what means, communicating with other
processes with messages only, limited ability to share data, no
interprocess variables, no GET / SET PROCESS VARIABLE and no UI.”
I don’t see anything that indicates that the means by which a process is
created impacts whether or not that process runs preemptively. Most UI
commands are not preemptive.

"However, thinking about it, as user process is a worker, and it should be
able to display UI, collaborative workers may be able to display UI.”
Process 1 will display UI in V18, compiled.

"But all 4D examples of worker's code use CALL FORM to display UI, so I
would not try to display UI from a worker."
Call form is a means of communicating with a form. It doesn’t tie back to
how a process is invoked.

 The fact that a given command can be used to create a preemptive process
doesn’t mean that it can’t be used to launch a process that supports a user
interface. The New process command can also run code in a preemptive
process.

--
Douglas von Roeder
949-910-4084


On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 12:30 PM Peter Bozek  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 8:01 PM Douglas von Roeder 
> wrote:
>
>> Peter:
>>
>> "Worker cannot display anything.”
>> Why do you say that?
>>
>
> My understanding of a worker is a process that can (potentially) run on
> different core or processor - what means, communicating with other
> processes with messages only, limited ability to share data, no
> interprocess variables, no GET / SET PROCESS VARIABLE and no UI.
>
> However, thinking about it, as user process is a worker, and it should be
> able to display UI, collaborative workers may be able to display UI. But
> all 4D examples of worker's code use CALL FORM to display UI, so I would
> not try to display UI from a worker.
>
> Peter Bozek
>
>
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Re: Worker and UI

2020-03-27 Thread Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech 
On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 8:01 PM Douglas von Roeder 
wrote:

> Peter:
>
> "Worker cannot display anything.”
> Why do you say that?
>

My understanding of a worker is a process that can (potentially) run on
different core or processor - what means, communicating with other
processes with messages only, limited ability to share data, no
interprocess variables, no GET / SET PROCESS VARIABLE and no UI.

However, thinking about it, as user process is a worker, and it should be
able to display UI, collaborative workers may be able to display UI. But
all 4D examples of worker's code use CALL FORM to display UI, so I would
not try to display UI from a worker.

Peter Bozek
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Re: Worker and UI

2020-03-27 Thread Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech 
Peter:

"Worker cannot display anything.”
Why do you say that?

--
Douglas von Roeder
949-910-4084


On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 11:50 AM Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 5:29 PM Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
> > v18.1, Mac
> >
> > What can a worker process do by way of UI? Are there any restrictions?
> >
>
> I am not sure what you want to achieve, but yes, there is a restriction: no
> UI for worker. None.  Worker cannot display anything.
>
> Peter Bozek
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Re: Worker and UI

2020-03-27 Thread Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech 
I’ve used Call worker with the dialog command. Call worker seems to be "yet
another way" to open a process but it doesn’t return a process ID. Similar
to New process, you can name the process and pass parameters. If you’re
closing the dialog and want the process to terminate, just call Kill worker
after the Dialog or Close window command.


--
Douglas von Roeder
949-910-4084


On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 9:29 AM Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> v18.1, Mac
>
> What can a worker process do by way of UI? Are there any restrictions?
>
> Situation: I have a task which takes a while to set up but which, once set
> up, runs swiftly, perhaps quite often. At present, I just wait for the
> setup to complete, but while it’s only a few seconds, it’s boring.
> Initialisation involves opening a window offscreen, containing a View Pro
> area for use in importing Excel spreadsheets. Getting data involves
> importing the spreadsheet and extracting and analysing the data, and is
> very fast.
>
> So, I thought this might do. At startup, CALL WORKER to get the window
> opened (using DIALOG(…; *).
>
> When data import is wanted, CALL WORKER with the path to the spreadsheet.
> The worker then does the “getting data” bit of the task.
>
> It then has to pass the data back to the waiting caller, which may then
> show it in a dialog. If before calling the worker, the caller has opened a
> window, there’s no problem: the worker can use CALL FORM. But sometimes,
> there will be no data to display and it will look ugly if the window opens
> and then closes.
>
> One solution would be for the caller process to be hidden until it has
> data to show in the window, and then to call SHOW PROCESS on itself.
>
> But it might be easier if the worker process simply did the display
> itself, if it opened the window and interacted with the user, avoiding the
> need to pass anything back to the caller. The caller could simply issue the
> CALL WORKER message and exit.
>
> Is there any objection to that method of doing things? The documentation
> doesn’t suggest that workers can’t have a UI. Maybe I’m stretching the use
> of a worker process past that which was intended.
>
> Any thoughts, or indeed comments on the idiocy of my thinking and my
> foolishness in having missed an obviously easy solution, gratefully
> received.
>
> Jeremy
>
> PS: why does it take 4D nearly 3 seconds between showing a form after a
> call to DIALOG, a form which has no form method and contains only a View
> Pro area, and the On VP Ready event?
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Re: Worker and UI

2020-03-27 Thread Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech 
On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 5:29 PM Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> v18.1, Mac
>
> What can a worker process do by way of UI? Are there any restrictions?
>

I am not sure what you want to achieve, but yes, there is a restriction: no
UI for worker. None.  Worker cannot display anything.

Peter Bozek
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Re: Display entity selection time fields in a list box?

2020-03-27 Thread John DeSoi via 4D_Tech 
No, that is a compatibility setting for older 4D versions where time values 
were converted to milliseconds instead of seconds. Hoping some day there will 
be an option to just use time values instead of numbers. That was done for 
dates (instead of strings), seems like it should be possible for time. The type 
conversion rules for objects and collections seem crazy and inconsistent. 

John DeSoi, Ph.D.


> On Mar 27, 2020, at 1:19 PM, kculotta via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Would this affect the display?  
> https://doc.4d.com/4Dv18/4D/18/Database-Parameters.302-4504404.en.html 
> section "Times inside objects "

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Re: Display entity selection time fields in a list box?

2020-03-27 Thread kculotta via 4D_Tech 
Would this affect the display?  
https://doc.4d.com/4Dv18/4D/18/Database-Parameters.302-4504404.en.html section 
"Times inside objects "

> On Mar 27, 2020, at 11:51 AM, John DeSoi via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I'm replacing some record based list boxes with entity selection list boxes. 
> I want to see HH MM SS format which was easy and the default with selection 
> list boxes. But since ORDA treats time as a number, the only way I see to do 
> that is to wrap the field property path with the Time function, e.g. 
> Time(This.time_field). Without that, any time format set with OBJECT SET 
> FORMAT just displays the number of seconds.
> 
> Is this really the only way to display time fields or have I missed 
> something? Seems like a step backwards. I'm using 18.1 Mac.
> 
> John DeSoi, Ph.D.
> 

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Re: Worker and UI

2020-03-27 Thread John DeSoi via 4D_Tech 
I don't see why it would not work. I'm not aware of any real difference between 
a worker and a regular 4D process except that a worker has queue of requests 
and lives until killed whereas a regular process executes one request and 
exists.

I tend to use the 4D progress component with some wrappers that allow it to be 
used by any process or worker including hidden and preemptive. It can also 
monitor and cancel jobs executing on the server. A lot of work to set up, but 
usable for almost anything once it is in place.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.


> On Mar 27, 2020, at 11:29 AM, Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Is there any objection to that method of doing things? The documentation 
> doesn’t suggest that workers can’t have a UI. Maybe I’m stretching the use of 
> a worker process past that which was intended.

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Re: Display entity selection time fields in a list box?

2020-03-27 Thread Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech 
John, I had the same issue recently. I couldn’t think of any other way.

Jeremy
On 27 Mar 2020, 16:52 +, John DeSoi via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>, 
wrote:
> I'm replacing some record based list boxes with entity selection list boxes. 
> I want to see HH MM SS format which was easy and the default with selection 
> list boxes. But since ORDA treats time as a number, the only way I see to do 
> that is to wrap the field property path with the Time function, e.g. 
> Time(This.time_field). Without that, any time format set with OBJECT SET 
> FORMAT just displays the number of seconds.
>
> Is this really the only way to display time fields or have I missed 
> something? Seems like a step backwards. I'm using 18.1 Mac.
>
> John DeSoi, Ph.D.
>
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Display entity selection time fields in a list box?

2020-03-27 Thread John DeSoi via 4D_Tech 
I'm replacing some record based list boxes with entity selection list boxes. I 
want to see HH MM SS format which was easy and the default with selection list 
boxes. But since ORDA treats time as a number, the only way I see to do that is 
to wrap the field property path with the Time function, e.g. 
Time(This.time_field). Without that, any time format set with OBJECT SET FORMAT 
just displays the number of seconds.

Is this really the only way to display time fields or have I missed something? 
Seems like a step backwards. I'm using 18.1 Mac.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.

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Worker and UI

2020-03-27 Thread Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech 
v18.1, Mac

What can a worker process do by way of UI? Are there any restrictions?

Situation: I have a task which takes a while to set up but which, once set up, 
runs swiftly, perhaps quite often. At present, I just wait for the setup to 
complete, but while it’s only a few seconds, it’s boring. Initialisation 
involves opening a window offscreen, containing a View Pro area for use in 
importing Excel spreadsheets. Getting data involves importing the spreadsheet 
and extracting and analysing the data, and is very fast.

So, I thought this might do. At startup, CALL WORKER to get the window opened 
(using DIALOG(…; *).

When data import is wanted, CALL WORKER with the path to the spreadsheet. The 
worker then does the “getting data” bit of the task.

It then has to pass the data back to the waiting caller, which may then show it 
in a dialog. If before calling the worker, the caller has opened a window, 
there’s no problem: the worker can use CALL FORM. But sometimes, there will be 
no data to display and it will look ugly if the window opens and then closes.

One solution would be for the caller process to be hidden until it has data to 
show in the window, and then to call SHOW PROCESS on itself.

But it might be easier if the worker process simply did the display itself, if 
it opened the window and interacted with the user, avoiding the need to pass 
anything back to the caller. The caller could simply issue the CALL WORKER 
message and exit.

Is there any objection to that method of doing things? The documentation 
doesn’t suggest that workers can’t have a UI. Maybe I’m stretching the use of a 
worker process past that which was intended.

Any thoughts, or indeed comments on the idiocy of my thinking and my 
foolishness in having missed an obviously easy solution, gratefully received.

Jeremy

PS: why does it take 4D nearly 3 seconds between showing a form after a call to 
DIALOG, a form which has no form method and contains only a View Pro area, and 
the On VP Ready event?
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Re: v17.4 and UUIDs

2020-03-27 Thread Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech 


> On Mar 27, 2020, at 11:58 AM, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> not 100% sure, but maybe the duplicates are actually nulls.
I assume you are correct

> 
> if you display the UUID fields in a list form, and resize the window, do the 
> values change?


> 
> if yes, what you see are phantom UUIDs, there are actually null.
> 
> I assume you added auto-generating UUIDs, 
Yes I do
> I assume you did this in a v17.4 structure file, 
Yes I do
> I assume you opened a v13.x datafile,
> expecting that the newly created UUId filed would automatically be populated.
Yes I do
> 
> my question is, did the primary key wizard show up?
No it does not
> 
> or maybe I should ask, is the UUID also a primary key?
Yes it is


Additionally,
I have the following code to fix the problem. Only the tables which 4D tells me 
have duplicates are updated

READ WRITE(*)
C_LONGINT($TableNumber_L;$Primary_key_field_id_L)

For ($TableNumber_L;1;Get last table number)
If (Is table number valid($TableNumber_L))
$Primary_key_field_id_L:=0
C_POINTER($Table_ptr;$Field_ptr)
$Table_ptr:=Table($TableNumber_L)
C_TEXT($ConstraintID_txt)

Begin SQL

SELECT CONSTRAINT_ID
FROM _USER_CONSTRAINTS
WHERE TABLE_ID = :$TableNumber_L AND CONSTRAINT_TYPE = 
'P'
INTO :$ConstraintID_txt;

SELECT COLUMN_ID
FROM _USER_CONS_COLUMNS
WHERE CONSTRAINT_ID = :$ConstraintID_txt
INTO :$Primary_key_field_id_L;
End SQL

$Field_ptr:=Field($TableNumber_L;$Primary_key_field_id_L)
ALL RECORDS($Table_ptr->)
ARRAY TEXT($UUIDKeys_atxt;0)

DISTINCT VALUES($Field_ptr->;$UUIDKeys_atxt)
If (Records in selection($Table_ptr->)#Size of 
array($UUIDKeys_atxt))

APPLY TO SELECTION($Table_ptr->;$Field_ptr->:=Generate 
UUID)
End if 
End if 


End for 



 Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306
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Re: Text Editor Which Knows 4D Tags?

2020-03-27 Thread Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech 
just so you know,

language-4dm is for 4D method code (project mode, or METHOD GET CODE with 
tokens).

it is a "tree-sitter" parser, a relatively new type of syntax highlighting.

language-4dtag is for 4D code embedded in XML or HTML. this one is a regular 
type of parser. (regex based).

---

ideally, I should use tree-sitter for both, but I have not found the time to 
get that done.

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Re: v17.4 and UUIDs

2020-03-27 Thread Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech 
not 100% sure, but maybe the duplicates are actually nulls.

if you display the UUID fields in a list form, and resize the window, do the 
values change?

if yes, what you see are phantom UUIDs, there are actually null.

I assume you added auto-generating UUIDs, 
I assume you did this in a v17.4 structure file, 
I assume you opened a v13.x datafile,
expecting that the newly created UUId filed would automatically be populated.

my question is, did the primary key wizard show up?

or maybe I should ask, is the UUID also a primary key?

> 2020/03/28 0:44、Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:
> I have code that added a UUID to all tables. I then restored from backup from 
> a v13 database.
> I would have assumed that all UUIDs would be filled. Indeed, most of them 
> were, but there were a few tables where there were duplicate values. Any 
> ideas as to why

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Re: v17.4 and UUIDs

2020-03-27 Thread Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech 
It is not my code. It is 4D that fills in the UUIDs in this circumstance. The 
question is why does 4D fill in some but not all UUIDs

Chuck

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This message and any attached documents contain information which may be 
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privilege or exemption from disclosure as to this communication. 

> On Mar 27, 2020, at 11:56 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Bug in your code?

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Re: v17.4 and UUIDs

2020-03-27 Thread Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech 
Bug in your code?

> On Mar 27, 2020, at 11:44 AM, Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I would have assumed that all UUIDs would be filled. Indeed, most of them 
> were, but there were a few tables where there were duplicate values. Any 
> ideas as to why

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v17.4 and UUIDs

2020-03-27 Thread Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech 
Hi All,

I have code that added a UUID to all tables. I then restored from backup from a 
v13 database.

I would have assumed that all UUIDs would be filled. Indeed, most of them were, 
but there were a few tables where there were duplicate values. Any ideas as to 
why

Regards

Chuck

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Re: Text Editor Which Knows 4D Tags?

2020-03-27 Thread Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech 
Thanks for pointing this out Milan. Also, here’s the link to Miyako’s Atom 
page…  https://atom.io/users/miyako  , although I 
see that there is a UI within Atom for installing Packages where you can lookup 
all his 4D stuff.

Tom Benedict 

> On Mar 27, 2020, at 04:22, Milan Adamov via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>> On Mar 27, 2020, at 3:34 AM, Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Neil. I”ll check out Atom. I have a MacOS, but do all my 4D work in 
>> Windows via Parallels. This kind of thing I need to do infrequently so I 
>> will just copy the file to the MacOS and view it there.
> 
> Atom is multiplatfrom, you can use it on Windows too.
> 
> Milan
> 

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Re: Text Editor Which Knows 4D Tags?

2020-03-27 Thread Milan Adamov via 4D_Tech 


> On Mar 27, 2020, at 3:34 AM, Tom Benedict via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Neil. I”ll check out Atom. I have a MacOS, but do all my 4D work in 
> Windows via Parallels. This kind of thing I need to do infrequently so I will 
> just copy the file to the MacOS and view it there.

Atom is multiplatfrom, you can use it on Windows too.

Milan

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