RE: Widget questions

[Piotr Chabot Stadhouders via 4D_Tech]

Hi Miyako,

Thanks for your clear explanation, it is much appreciated.
I must say that when reading all this below, it is no invitation to create 
widgets, but I am not giving up.
I am trying to create a custom dropdown list that I can use wherever I want, on 
every form and every page I want.
I don't understand why this must be so complicated. Is it because of overcoming 
technical problems, or is it designed like this for a reason?

I have put some comments below. I hope you are willing to look at them.
If all of this is already explained in some document I am eager to read it.

Thanks again,

Piotr

> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: Keisuke Miyako [mailto:keisuke.miy...@4d.com]
> Verzonden: maandag 4 september 2017 17:28
> Aan: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Onderwerp: Re: Widget questions
> 
> the challenge is a bit more complex than that.
> 
> the "On Load" event for a widget is fired when a widget is created, which is
> when the page is displayed for any pages other than 0 or 1.
> 
> this is documented.
> 
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15.4/Form-event.301-3274360.en.html

Thanks for pointing this out. When something is documented, it isn't some kind 
of bug. Glad to know!


> 
> > • On Load and On Unload: respectively opening and closing of the subform
> (these events must also have been activated at the parent form level in
> order to be taken into account). Note that these events are generated
> before those of the parent form. Also note that, in accordance with the
> operating principles of form events, if the subform is placed on a page other
> than page 0 or 1, these events will only be generated when that page is
> displayed/closed (and not when the form is displayed/closed.
> 
> the widget is destroyed when you leave the page, but the variables are not,
> because their scope is the form or process.
> so you need to differentiate between the first and subsequent occurrences
> of "On Load".
> you can do that with a "flag" variable, kind of "pragma once" signal inside 
> the
> widget.

OK, I think I know how to set "attributes" in a widget by putting hidden 
objects on the form and setting the values of these objects (I took this by 
example from your widgets)
I am beginning to teach my self not to use variables when not needed. So how 
(in what form) do you store this "flag" variable? Is it a real variable, or an 
object on the form containing the value?

Is this technique also used in one of your widgets?

You say "The widget is destroyed , but the variables are not". What do you mean 
with "The widget is destroyed" this?

> 
> but that is not all.
> 
> normally, when you resize the window, all objects on pages that are not
> currently displayed are also logically resized, so their size and position are
> adjusted according to their resize property (grow or move) when you switch
> to that page.
> 
> however, inner objects of a widget cannot respond to form resize events
> while a different page is displayed, because the parent object (the subform
> container) exists but the inner objects do not.
> 
> so, when you switch pages,
> you need to update the size and position of each inner object of a widget
> according to its container size, which might have changed while a different
> page was being displayed.
> 
> an you might have guessed,
> but this applies to page 1 as well.
> if you move to a second page,
> the widget on page 1 is destroyed (not the variables) and the resizing can go
> out of sync.
> 
> so really, it is not good enough to keep all widgets on page 0 or 1, it is 
> also
> important to not have multiple pages (or otherwise fix the window size).

So what you are saying is better to keep all widgets on page 0 and only 1 page 
forms when using widgets, or else you have a lot of problems to overcome? This 
doesn't sound developer friendly.


> 
> widgets can go any number of levels deep, so I think it is reasonable that 4D
> does not bubble and capture events for all widgets on all levels on all pages.
> 
> to design complex forms on a single page, you could take advantage of
> "object views".
> 
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15.4/Using-object-views.300-3285345.en.html
> 

Thanks for the tip.


> > 2017/09/04 23:48、Piotr Chabot Stadhouders via 4D_Tech
> > <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
> > It looks like a subform on a page is only recognized when this page has
> been fully loaded and drawn?
> 
> 
> 

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Re: Widget questions

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

the challenge is a bit more complex than that.

the "On Load" event for a widget is fired when a widget is created,
which is when the page is displayed for any pages other than 0 or 1.

this is documented.

http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15.4/Form-event.301-3274360.en.html

> • On Load and On Unload: respectively opening and closing of the subform 
> (these events must also have been activated at the parent form level in order 
> to be taken into account). Note that these events are generated before those 
> of the parent form. Also note that, in accordance with the operating 
> principles of form events, if the subform is placed on a page other than page 
> 0 or 1, these events will only be generated when that page is 
> displayed/closed (and not when the form is displayed/closed.

the widget is destroyed when you leave the page,
but the variables are not, because their scope is the form or process.
so you need to differentiate between the first and subsequent occurrences of 
"On Load".
you can do that with a "flag" variable, kind of "pragma once" signal inside the 
widget.

but that is not all.

normally, when you resize the window, all objects on pages that are not 
currently displayed are also logically resized,
so their size and position are adjusted according to their resize property 
(grow or move) when you switch to that page.

however, inner objects of a widget cannot respond to form resize events while a 
different page is displayed,
because the parent object (the subform container) exists but the inner objects 
do not.

so, when you switch pages,
you need to update the size and position of each inner object of a widget 
according to its container size,
which might have changed while a different page was being displayed.

an you might have guessed,
but this applies to page 1 as well.
if you move to a second page,
the widget on page 1 is destroyed (not the variables) and the resizing can go 
out of sync.

so really, it is not good enough to keep all widgets on page 0 or 1,
it is also important to not have multiple pages (or otherwise fix the window 
size).

widgets can go any number of levels deep,
so I think it is reasonable that 4D does not bubble and capture events for all 
widgets on all levels on all pages.

to design complex forms on a single page, you could take advantage of "object 
views".

http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15.4/Using-object-views.300-3285345.en.html

> 2017/09/04 23:48、Piotr Chabot Stadhouders via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> のメール：
> It looks like a subform on a page is only recognized when this page has been 
> fully loaded and drawn?




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RE: Widget questions

[Piotr Chabot Stadhouders via 4D_Tech]

Hi Jim,


Jim Dorrance wrote :
" I put on page 0 and set visible/invisible."


Yes, I noticed that when putting the widget on page 0 it works.
Unfortunately I want to use widgets a lot
In this example I have a form with 9 pages, with on some pages more than 5 
widgets
This will create a lot of mess when putting all on page 0 and set it visible / 
invisible

I am hoping for some other solution

It looks like a subform on a page is only recognized when this page has been 
fully loaded and drawn?

Gr,

Piotr

> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: Piotr Chabot Stadhouders
> Verzonden: maandag 4 september 2017 13:39
> Aan: '4D iNug Technical' <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> CC: Piotr Chabot Stadhouders <p.stadhoud...@timeff.com>
> Onderwerp: RE: Widget questions
> 
> > Do you know of problems when using widgets on pages > 1? Or should
> > there be no problems?
> 
> OK, I narrowed down the problem, and maybe someone can tell me what is
> the best way to handle this:
> I want to enable/disable or set some value to objects / widgets in On load of
> the main form Because my widget (=subform) is on page 2 for example, for
> some reason, 4D doesn't find the pointer to the variable of the object in the
> on load event
> 
> So  $object_ptr:=OBJECT Get pointer(Object
> named;$objectName;$widgetName)  returns Nil
> 
> (Furthermore it seems that the on load of the subform is executed AFTER
> the on load of the form)
> 
> Maybe this is normal standard behavior, but I didn't expect this.
> Now, to initialize the widget (disable + set value) I run the command SET
> TIMER(1) at the end of the on load event (Even CALL FORM did't help me)
> 
> So, what is the best way to initialize widgets that are on page 2, 3 ?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Piotr
> 
> > -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> > Van: Piotr Chabot Stadhouders
> > Verzonden: vrijdag 1 september 2017 20:46
> > Aan: Keisuke Miyako <keisuke.miy...@4d.com>; 4D iNug Technical
> > <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> > CC: Piotr Chabot Stadhouders <p.stadhoud...@timeff.com>
> > Onderwerp: Widget questions
> >
> > Hi Miyako,
> >
> > Since I discovered you are a widget expert (in fact I believe you are
> > an expert on everything concerning 4D) I hope you can answer some
> > other questions 
> >
> > I am developing another widget based on a subform with a vertical
> > scrollbar (i.e. a calendar with 12 vertical months). On this subform I
> > have 3D checkboxes
> > - When the mouse is over the 3D buttons the scrollbar doesn't respond
> > when using the scrollbar. Do you have an answer / solution?
> > - When selecting a date by programming, 5 october for example, I want
> > to scroll down to that date, but I can't find how I can scroll on a
> > input subform by programing. Do you know how this can be done?
> >
> > Do you know of problems when using widgets on pages > 1? Or should
> > there be no problems?
> >
> > Gr,
> >
> > Piotr
> >
> > > -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> > > Van: Piotr Chabot Stadhouders [mailto:p.stadhoud...@timeff.com]
> > > Verzonden: donderdag 31 augustus 2017 9:03
> > > Aan: Keisuke Miyako <keisuke.miy...@4d.com>; 4D iNug Technical
> > > <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> > > Onderwerp: RE: Widget performance
> > >
> > > Hi Miyako,
> > >
> > > Searching for some tips about widgets (subforms) and handling focus,
> > > setting disabled, etc. I found this link on the iNUG:
> > > https://github.com/miyako/4d-widget-custom-picture-button/wiki
> > >
> > > I must say I really like what you have done, and the source code is
> > > really helpful understanding how to implement widgets.
> > > I would advise everybody to have a look at this widget, and others,
> > > you have created.
> > >
> > > These widgets most of the time are created with 4D v14.
> > > Would you do (some) things differently when using v16?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Piotr
> > >
> > > > -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> > > > Van: Keisuke Miyako [mailto:keisuke.miy...@4d.com]
> > > > Verzonden: zaterdag 26 augustus 2017 0:32
> > > > Aan: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> > > > Onderwerp: Re: Widget performance
> > > >
> > > > there is a "duplicate by matrix" menu in the form editor, which
> > > > allows you to quickly experiment with tens of thousands of objects.
> > > > maybe it is the execution code setup code that is taking 2 seconds.
> > > >
> > > > in my experience, a form with thousands of form objects is nothing
> > > > uncommon.
> > > >
> > > > > 2017/08/25 16:39、Piotr Chabot Stadhouders via 4D_Tech
> > > > > <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
> > > > > Opening the form compiled on a quite fast Windows laptop took
> > > > > about
> > > > > 2
> > > > seconds.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >

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Re: Widget questions

[jim.dorrance--- via 4D_Tech]

I put on page 0 and set visible/invisible.

Sent from my iPhone

On 4 Sep 2017, at 13:39, Piotr Chabot Stadhouders via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

>> Do you know of problems when using widgets on pages > 1? Or should there
>> be no problems?
> 
> OK, I narrowed down the problem, and maybe someone can tell me what is the 
> best way to handle this:
> I want to enable/disable or set some value to objects / widgets in On load of 
> the main form
> Because my widget (=subform) is on page 2 for example, for some reason, 4D 
> doesn't find the pointer to the variable of the object in the on load event
> 
> So  $object_ptr:=OBJECT Get pointer(Object named;$objectName;$widgetName)  
> returns Nil
> 
> (Furthermore it seems that the on load of the subform is executed AFTER the 
> on load of the form)
> 
> Maybe this is normal standard behavior, but I didn't expect this.
> Now, to initialize the widget (disable + set value) I run the command SET 
> TIMER(1) at the end of the on load event (Even CALL FORM did't help me)
> 
> So, what is the best way to initialize widgets that are on page 2, 3 ?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Piotr
> 
>> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
>> Van: Piotr Chabot Stadhouders
>> Verzonden: vrijdag 1 september 2017 20:46
>> Aan: Keisuke Miyako ; 4D iNug Technical
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>> CC: Piotr Chabot Stadhouders 
>> Onderwerp: Widget questions
>> 
>> Hi Miyako,
>> 
>> Since I discovered you are a widget expert (in fact I believe you are an 
>> expert
>> on everything concerning 4D) I hope you can answer some other questions 
>> 
>> I am developing another widget based on a subform with a vertical scrollbar
>> (i.e. a calendar with 12 vertical months). On this subform I have 3D
>> checkboxes
>> - When the mouse is over the 3D buttons the scrollbar doesn't respond when
>> using the scrollbar. Do you have an answer / solution?
>> - When selecting a date by programming, 5 october for example, I want to
>> scroll down to that date, but I can't find how I can scroll on a input 
>> subform by
>> programing. Do you know how this can be done?
>> 
>> Do you know of problems when using widgets on pages > 1? Or should there
>> be no problems?
>> 
>> Gr,
>> 
>> Piotr
>> 
>>> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
>>> Van: Piotr Chabot Stadhouders [mailto:p.stadhoud...@timeff.com]
>>> Verzonden: donderdag 31 augustus 2017 9:03
>>> Aan: Keisuke Miyako ; 4D iNug Technical
>>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>>> Onderwerp: RE: Widget performance
>>> 
>>> Hi Miyako,
>>> 
>>> Searching for some tips about widgets (subforms) and handling focus,
>>> setting disabled, etc. I found this link on the iNUG:
>>> https://github.com/miyako/4d-widget-custom-picture-button/wiki
>>> 
>>> I must say I really like what you have done, and the source code is
>>> really helpful understanding how to implement widgets.
>>> I would advise everybody to have a look at this widget, and others,
>>> you have created.
>>> 
>>> These widgets most of the time are created with 4D v14.
>>> Would you do (some) things differently when using v16?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Piotr
>>> 
 -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
 Van: Keisuke Miyako [mailto:keisuke.miy...@4d.com]
 Verzonden: zaterdag 26 augustus 2017 0:32
 Aan: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
 Onderwerp: Re: Widget performance
 
 there is a "duplicate by matrix" menu in the form editor, which
 allows you to quickly experiment with tens of thousands of objects.
 maybe it is the execution code setup code that is taking 2 seconds.
 
 in my experience, a form with thousands of form objects is nothing
 uncommon.
 
> 2017/08/25 16:39、Piotr Chabot Stadhouders via 4D_Tech
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
> Opening the form compiled on a quite fast Windows laptop took
> about
> 2
 seconds.
 
 
 
> 
> **
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RE: Widget questions

[Piotr Chabot Stadhouders via 4D_Tech]

> Do you know of problems when using widgets on pages > 1? Or should there
> be no problems?

OK, I narrowed down the problem, and maybe someone can tell me what is the best 
way to handle this:
I want to enable/disable or set some value to objects / widgets in On load of 
the main form
Because my widget (=subform) is on page 2 for example, for some reason, 4D 
doesn't find the pointer to the variable of the object in the on load event

So  $object_ptr:=OBJECT Get pointer(Object named;$objectName;$widgetName)  
returns Nil

(Furthermore it seems that the on load of the subform is executed AFTER the on 
load of the form)

Maybe this is normal standard behavior, but I didn't expect this.
Now, to initialize the widget (disable + set value) I run the command SET 
TIMER(1) at the end of the on load event (Even CALL FORM did't help me)

So, what is the best way to initialize widgets that are on page 2, 3 ?

Thanks,

Piotr

> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: Piotr Chabot Stadhouders
> Verzonden: vrijdag 1 september 2017 20:46
> Aan: Keisuke Miyako ; 4D iNug Technical
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> CC: Piotr Chabot Stadhouders 
> Onderwerp: Widget questions
> 
> Hi Miyako,
> 
> Since I discovered you are a widget expert (in fact I believe you are an 
> expert
> on everything concerning 4D) I hope you can answer some other questions 
> 
> I am developing another widget based on a subform with a vertical scrollbar
> (i.e. a calendar with 12 vertical months). On this subform I have 3D
> checkboxes
> - When the mouse is over the 3D buttons the scrollbar doesn't respond when
> using the scrollbar. Do you have an answer / solution?
> - When selecting a date by programming, 5 october for example, I want to
> scroll down to that date, but I can't find how I can scroll on a input 
> subform by
> programing. Do you know how this can be done?
> 
> Do you know of problems when using widgets on pages > 1? Or should there
> be no problems?
> 
> Gr,
> 
> Piotr
> 
> > -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> > Van: Piotr Chabot Stadhouders [mailto:p.stadhoud...@timeff.com]
> > Verzonden: donderdag 31 augustus 2017 9:03
> > Aan: Keisuke Miyako ; 4D iNug Technical
> > <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> > Onderwerp: RE: Widget performance
> >
> > Hi Miyako,
> >
> > Searching for some tips about widgets (subforms) and handling focus,
> > setting disabled, etc. I found this link on the iNUG:
> > https://github.com/miyako/4d-widget-custom-picture-button/wiki
> >
> > I must say I really like what you have done, and the source code is
> > really helpful understanding how to implement widgets.
> > I would advise everybody to have a look at this widget, and others,
> > you have created.
> >
> > These widgets most of the time are created with 4D v14.
> > Would you do (some) things differently when using v16?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Piotr
> >
> > > -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> > > Van: Keisuke Miyako [mailto:keisuke.miy...@4d.com]
> > > Verzonden: zaterdag 26 augustus 2017 0:32
> > > Aan: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> > > Onderwerp: Re: Widget performance
> > >
> > > there is a "duplicate by matrix" menu in the form editor, which
> > > allows you to quickly experiment with tens of thousands of objects.
> > > maybe it is the execution code setup code that is taking 2 seconds.
> > >
> > > in my experience, a form with thousands of form objects is nothing
> > > uncommon.
> > >
> > > > 2017/08/25 16:39、Piotr Chabot Stadhouders via 4D_Tech
> > > > <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
> > > > Opening the form compiled on a quite fast Windows laptop took
> > > > about
> > > > 2
> > > seconds.
> > >
> > >
> > >

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RE: Widget questions

[Piotr Chabot Stadhouders via 4D_Tech]

Hi Timothy,

Thanks for your answer!

We are 4D partner but I don't know if I can, and if so how I can vote for your 
bug.

Do you know how I can do that?

Thanks,

Piotr

> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: Timothy Penner [mailto:tpen...@4d.com]
> Verzonden: vrijdag 1 september 2017 21:22
> Aan: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>; Keisuke Miyako
> <keisuke.miy...@4d.com>
> CC: Piotr Chabot Stadhouders <p.stadhoud...@timeff.com>
> Onderwerp: RE: Widget questions
> 
> Hi Piotr,
> 
> > I meant : When the mouse is over the 3D buttons the scrollbar doesn't
> respond when using the SCROLL WHEEL
> 
> Although I don't recall trying with a 3D Button, I am aware of the following
> bug that I filed for a v16 case:
> 
> ACI0096405  [135202] Scrolling a subform stops when the mouse is above an
> enterable object
> 
> Basically, if you had a scrollable subform, and you scrolled it using the 
> mouse
> wheel, it would stop scrolling when the mouse gets positioned above an
> enterable object. This behavior was seen in both v15.x and v16.x plus v13.6
> and v14.6 (I didn't test v12 or older versions) so the behavior has existed 
> for
> at least 4 major versions (13-16).
> 
> The bug is listed as in progress.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> -Tim
> 
> 
> 
> Timothy Penner
> Technical Services Engineer
> 
> 4D Inc
> 95 S. Market Street, Suite #240
> San Jose,CA 95113
> United States
> 
> Telephone: +1-408-557-4600
> Fax:   +1-408-271-5080
> Email: tpen...@4d.com
> Web:   www.4D.com

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RE: Widget questions

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

Hi Piotr,

> I meant : When the mouse is over the 3D buttons the scrollbar doesn't respond 
> when using the SCROLL WHEEL

Although I don't recall trying with a 3D Button, I am aware of the following 
bug that I filed for a v16 case:

ACI0096405  [135202] Scrolling a subform stops when the mouse is above an 
enterable object

Basically, if you had a scrollable subform, and you scrolled it using the mouse 
wheel, it would stop scrolling when the mouse gets positioned above an 
enterable object. This behavior was seen in both v15.x and v16.x plus v13.6 and 
v14.6 (I didn't test v12 or older versions) so the behavior has existed for at 
least 4 major versions (13-16).

The bug is listed as in progress.

Hope this helps!

-Tim



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RE: Widget questions

[Piotr Chabot Stadhouders via 4D_Tech]

Sorry,

I meant : When the mouse is over the 3D buttons the scrollbar doesn't respond 
when using the SCROLL WHEEL

> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: Piotr Chabot Stadhouders
> Verzonden: vrijdag 1 september 2017 20:46
> Aan: Keisuke Miyako ; 4D iNug Technical
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> CC: Piotr Chabot Stadhouders 
> Onderwerp: Widget questions
> 
> Hi Miyako,
> 
> Since I discovered you are a widget expert (in fact I believe you are an 
> expert
> on everything concerning 4D) I hope you can answer some other questions 
> 
> I am developing another widget based on a subform with a vertical scrollbar
> (i.e. a calendar with 12 vertical months). On this subform I have 3D
> checkboxes
> - When the mouse is over the 3D buttons the scrollbar doesn't respond when
> using the scrollbar. Do you have an answer / solution?
> - When selecting a date by programming, 5 october for example, I want to
> scroll down to that date, but I can't find how I can scroll on a input 
> subform by
> programing. Do you know how this can be done?
> 
> Do you know of problems when using widgets on pages > 1? Or should there
> be no problems?
> 
> Gr,
> 
> Piotr
> 
> > -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> > Van: Piotr Chabot Stadhouders [mailto:p.stadhoud...@timeff.com]
> > Verzonden: donderdag 31 augustus 2017 9:03
> > Aan: Keisuke Miyako ; 4D iNug Technical
> > <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> > Onderwerp: RE: Widget performance
> >
> > Hi Miyako,
> >
> > Searching for some tips about widgets (subforms) and handling focus,
> > setting disabled, etc. I found this link on the iNUG:
> > https://github.com/miyako/4d-widget-custom-picture-button/wiki
> >
> > I must say I really like what you have done, and the source code is
> > really helpful understanding how to implement widgets.
> > I would advise everybody to have a look at this widget, and others,
> > you have created.
> >
> > These widgets most of the time are created with 4D v14.
> > Would you do (some) things differently when using v16?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Piotr
> >
> > > -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> > > Van: Keisuke Miyako [mailto:keisuke.miy...@4d.com]
> > > Verzonden: zaterdag 26 augustus 2017 0:32
> > > Aan: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> > > Onderwerp: Re: Widget performance
> > >
> > > there is a "duplicate by matrix" menu in the form editor, which
> > > allows you to quickly experiment with tens of thousands of objects.
> > > maybe it is the execution code setup code that is taking 2 seconds.
> > >
> > > in my experience, a form with thousands of form objects is nothing
> > > uncommon.
> > >
> > > > 2017/08/25 16:39、Piotr Chabot Stadhouders via 4D_Tech
> > > > <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
> > > > Opening the form compiled on a quite fast Windows laptop took
> > > > about
> > > > 2
> > > seconds.
> > >
> > >
> > >

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