Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[raingloom]

On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:24:36 +
Giacomo Tesio  wrote:

> Hi raingloom, mycroftiv and 9fans,
> 
> As you might know I'm pretty heretic in Plan 9 (as much that my for
> is called Jehanne) and I'm also very sympathetic with SJW victims,
> mostly because SJW basically try to impose worldwide a US-workplace
> ethos that is compatible with US-styled corporate management.
> 
> More often than not, they are in good faith.
> But ultimately they become tools of US colonialism, spreading their
> cultural hegemony. The trick is basically: convince everybody that
> they have your problems (eg, systemic racism, lgtqmi+ phobics, gender
> bias and so on) so that they will accept your corporate-friendly
> solutions (eg CoCs...)
> 
> In Europe being inclusive doesn't mean to be hypocrital, and that's
> why I'd really like to know what "sin" Nemo did to cause all this
> debate.
> 
> More often than not, SJW raise their swords after fictional issues
> that amount to nothing and could be basically settled with a honest
> conversation between openminded adults.
> 
> More often than not, what a SJW consider outragous and evil, is said
> in a completely different cultural context and environment, so much
> that they simply can't (or don't care to) interpret it as intended
> and understood in that context.
> 
> Finally, more often than not, SJW inclusiveness stops before weird
> people, (like hackers often are) that do NOT belong to the
> demographic groups that populate US's remorse, like blacks, women and
> so on.
> 
> Not to mention that often they are plain blind with the harm their
> corporations cause worldwide (think of the Facebook's SJW that
> obtained the removal of RMS from GCC Steering Committee).
> 
> On January 27, 2022 4:35:16 AM UTC, raingloom 
> wrote:
> > 
> > Side note: technology is political. Deal with it. Software that
> > helps no one is of no use and who you choose to help with software
> > and count as a stakeholder (which includes but is not limited to
> > users) is an inherently political question. Ignoring that just
> > means that you prefer the status quo.  
> 
> I totally agree with this. [1]
> 
> Since neolithic, technology is a prosecution of politics by other
> means.
> 
> I agree so much that all my free software projects include a
> POLITICS.txt that explicitly declares the political goals they have.
> 
> 
> However, thanks God, not all politics is based on cancel culture, yet.
> Hackers do not cancel, we create.
> 
> If you feel the need to cancel Nemo's great influence over Plan 9,
> I'm not interested.
> 
> If you want to update his great books, eg to describe 9front, I'd
> really like to help. But I'd love to work WITH Nemo, not against him.
> 
> I might disagree with Nemo's view on general politics (I really do
> not know his takes on anything) but I think I might well work with
> him on a well defined political goal (say "document 9front internals
> so that anybody can more easily hack it").
> 
> Or maybe he doesn't like 9front and prefer to stick to
> plan9foundation's code, in which case I would't partecipate because I
> can't trust several of the founders [2].
> 
> 
> Sure, as you say, deciding who your project serves and how is a
> political choice. But it has nothing to do with who you cancel.
> 
> 
> Technology is Politics.
> 
> But Politics, to me, is to build bridges, not walls.
> Cancelling Nemo is not a political achievement.
> 
> Building on the great work he donated to this community, is.
> 
> 
> My 2 cents.
> 
> 
> 
> Giacomo
> 
> [1] http://www.tesio.it/2019/06/03/what-is-informatics.html
> 
> [2]
> http://www.tesio.it/2018/02/14/what-i-wish-i-knew-before-contributing-to-open-source.html

I'll just note that you addressed this to me and mycroftiv instead of
that guy who said that trans people must hide their identity on the
list. And I'm not from the US.

I'm offering help in reaching out to new demographics who currently do
not feel welcome in 9fans circles. That is the opposite of exclusion. I
actually don't care much about whatever nemo did or said, I just want
to see Plan 9 getting better docs and becoming more accessible to
people who aren't unix greybeards.
Feel free to ignore my rather milquetoast political reasoning behind my
motivation for helping.

If my help is not wanted, I have other libre projects to contribute to.

ps.: Nice work on Jehanne btw, I floated the GCC port announcement by
the Guix mailing list. Would be cool to see a package/config manager
inspired by it running on Plan 9 or Jehanne.

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation:

[hiro]

> Imagine I post that you are a fascist and that because of that we
> need another git client. I'm sure the same people that have been
> trolling in this thread would be defending you.

No need to imagine, as this has already happened.
No big deal, as the mob (on twitter/hitlernews/etc.) calmed down again
soon after.
4chan is probably real mad  and avoids 9front which now must seem like
a one in a kind jewish conspiracist operating system. I think it's
funny after all, and the statements made, the resolution, offended
just the right people.

> The only explanation I see here is a tribal one.

explanation for what?

> I don't like that.

Of course, tribal behaviors should be below us all. We're gonna harm
only your soul, not your body.

> I'll keep myself out of it, I've only made a fool of myself.

no need for such compensation, all people who responded to this thread
share the same kind of blame, if there has to be any at all.

> PS. If you want to stop a discussion, don't put more fire on it.
> You are not the moderator, people don't like being told to shut up
> by another member. Russ said us to shut up and look at us...

I think Russ plainly followed his responsibility as a human to remind
us there are basic rules of respect. Should this urge anyway weigh
more than an admin's word? Hell yeah.

So be better next time everybody. Be excellent, or however they call it.

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation:

[adr]

ori wrote:

All too often, the only post with technical content
is the first post in a thread.  The technical content
is drowned in the bullshit.

As a result, help is given off-list if it's given at
all.  It protects the questioner from the deluge of
noise, but hides any debugging steps from anyone who
could learn from them.


This is just surreal.

The _questioner_ used the list to denounce politically another
member (well, I don't think nemo is here anymore), but instead of
a warning by the administrator it gets a pat on the back by other
members. Ah! and the bullshit is in the ones who got outraged.

Imagine I post that you are a fascist and that because of that we
need another git client. I'm sure the same people that have been
trolling in this thread would be defending you.

The only explanation I see here is a tribal one.

I don't like that.

I'll keep myself out of it, I've only made a fool of myself.

PS. If you want to stop a discussion, don't put more fire on it.
You are not the moderator, people don't like being told to shut up
by another member. Russ said us to shut up and look at us...

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[hiro]

> It's important to discuss politics.
>
> Elsewhere.

Since everything is political, it has to be discussed everywhere. At
least until everybody gets tired and resumes their non-political
boring everyday stupors.

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Giacomo Tesio]

Hi hiro.

History is full of counter examples that contraddict your thesis.

At least since neolithic, human organization has been determinated by 
technology.
The most recent (and most directly related to informatics) were Gutemberg's 
movable-type
printing press, Meucci's telephone, the general purpose CPU and obviously 
the Internet.

But ancient sailing tech, the steam engine, the car, the H bomb, are few among 
thousands of examples of technological innovation that enabled new (and
always more complex) kind of human organizations.

Actually one could argue that technology is the most powerful political force 
in human society.

On January 27, 2022 9:02:29 PM UTC, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> the majority of "hackers" have already failed to be political, when
> they sold their souls to the big corps like google and amazon.

You are confusing hackers with engineers.

Most hackers ARE politically aware.
They pursuit knowledge instead of power, money or prestige, but they are aware 
of
the consequences of their hack.

Yet they might align with power anyway.
Some are blind enough or careless enough or individualistic enough to only care 
about 
their own fun hacks.


Take Pike or Thompson: they were pioneers, invented C, Plan9 and all the stuff 
we love
but now they work in Google (afaik).

Were they hacker?

I can't say if they were or they were just great engineers, but for sure they 
now align 
with Google interests and approve its business model based on surveillance 
capitalism.


On the other hand, RMS, Terry A. Davis or Phineas Fisher, Ola Bini are all very 
politically aware hackers, each in his own way.


Sure, since ever, Power system try to get control of hackers.
Sometime they manage to jail us. Sometime we escape. [1]


Giacomo

[1] http://www.tesio.it/2020/09/03/not_all_hackers_are_americans.html

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[ori]

Quoth hiro <23h...@gmail.com>:
> > Side note: technology is political. Deal with it.
> 
> I disagree.

Can you please disagree off-list?


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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Wes Kussmaul]

On 1/27/22 16:02, hiro wrote:

the majority of "hackers" have already failed to be political, when
they sold their souls to the big corps like google and amazon.



You mean like https://silibandia.com?



*Wes Kussmaul*

*Reliable Identities, Inc.*
an Authenticity Enterprise
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451 USA
t: +1 781 790 1674
m: +1 781 330 1881
e: w...@reliableid.com

Learn About Authenticity 

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise 
protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have 
received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it 
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unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with 
an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.





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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[hiro]

> Side note: technology is political. Deal with it.

I disagree.
Most of the time the forces in power will survive the changes in
technology or even use it for their own benefit, possibly against you
or against your philosophy you came up for in support of your
technology.

Of course there could be a phantastic exception where you use
technology to create a revolution to overcome the status quo, but
that's highly unlikely.

the majority of "hackers" have already failed to be political, when
they sold their souls to the big corps like google and amazon.

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[ori]

Quoth raingloom :
> Side note: technology is political. Deal with it.

Everything is political, but allowing posts on a
topic to become explicitly political generally ends
up completely derailing the technical topic.

All too often, the only post with technical content
is the first post in a thread.  The technical content
is drowned in the bullshit.

As a result, help is given off-list if it's given at
all.  It protects the questioner from the deluge of
noise, but hides any debugging steps from anyone who
could learn from them.

This kills the list.

It's important to discuss politics.

Elsewhere.

If you don't have anything technical to say about
plan 9, don't hit the send button.


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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Giacomo Tesio]

Hi raingloom, mycroftiv and 9fans,

As you might know I'm pretty heretic in Plan 9 (as much that my for is called 
Jehanne) 
and I'm also very sympathetic with SJW victims, mostly because SJW basically
try to impose worldwide a US-workplace ethos that is compatible with US-styled 
corporate management.

More often than not, they are in good faith.
But ultimately they become tools of US colonialism, spreading their cultural 
hegemony.
The trick is basically: convince everybody that they have your problems 
(eg, systemic racism, lgtqmi+ phobics, gender bias and so on) so that they
will accept your corporate-friendly solutions (eg CoCs...)

In Europe being inclusive doesn't mean to be hypocrital, and that's why I'd 
really like 
to know what "sin" Nemo did to cause all this debate.

More often than not, SJW raise their swords after fictional issues that amount 
to nothing
and could be basically settled with a honest conversation between openminded 
adults.

More often than not, what a SJW consider outragous and evil, is said
in a completely different cultural context and environment, so much that they
simply can't (or don't care to) interpret it as intended and understood in that 
context.

Finally, more often than not, SJW inclusiveness stops before weird people,
(like hackers often are) that do NOT belong to the demographic groups that
populate US's remorse, like blacks, women and so on.

Not to mention that often they are plain blind with the harm their corporations 
cause worldwide (think of the Facebook's SJW that obtained the removal of RMS 
from GCC Steering Committee).

On January 27, 2022 4:35:16 AM UTC, raingloom  wrote:
> 
> Side note: technology is political. Deal with it. Software that helps
> no one is of no use and who you choose to help with software and count
> as a stakeholder (which includes but is not limited to users) is an
> inherently political question. Ignoring that just means that you prefer
> the status quo.

I totally agree with this. [1]

Since neolithic, technology is a prosecution of politics by other means.

I agree so much that all my free software projects include a POLITICS.txt that 
explicitly declares the political goals they have.


However, thanks God, not all politics is based on cancel culture, yet.
Hackers do not cancel, we create.

If you feel the need to cancel Nemo's great influence over Plan 9, I'm not 
interested.

If you want to update his great books, eg to describe 9front, I'd really like 
to help.
But I'd love to work WITH Nemo, not against him.

I might disagree with Nemo's view on general politics (I really do not know his 
takes 
on anything) but I think I might well work with him on a well defined political 
goal
(say "document 9front internals so that anybody can more easily hack it").

Or maybe he doesn't like 9front and prefer to stick to plan9foundation's code, 
in 
which case I would't partecipate because I can't trust several of the founders 
[2].


Sure, as you say, deciding who your project serves and how is a political 
choice.
But it has nothing to do with who you cancel.


Technology is Politics.

But Politics, to me, is to build bridges, not walls.
Cancelling Nemo is not a political achievement.

Building on the great work he donated to this community, is.


My 2 cents.



Giacomo

[1] http://www.tesio.it/2019/06/03/what-is-informatics.html

[2] 
http://www.tesio.it/2018/02/14/what-i-wish-i-knew-before-contributing-to-open-source.html

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[raingloom]

(this sat in my queue for a few days, I originally wrote it when there
were just 1-2 replies, then saw Russ's message and I held off, but it
looks like the thread is still going, so I might as well fix it
up a bit and send it.)

On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 05:12:10 -0600
mycroftiv 9gridchan  wrote:

> Hi 9fans, Got some new ideas im excited about right now.
> Apparently the author of the well-known 'intro to OS abstractions'
> book has political views that are not cool and support oppression
> maybe I have heard secondhand.
> We need a better book to introduce people to 9.
> I'd like to see something created that talks about all forms of 9 and
> of the ANTS variant especially since if im bipolar and spending my
> money to try to help plan 9, im obviously also gonna be hyping my
> stuff along with trying to fight against right wing ideas.
> The cause to make plan 9 an accepting welcoming community for all
> humans requires good information resources and support.
> The funny-named organization I just thought up, The Flan 9 Poundation,
> offers a bounty from me personally of at least $200 for producing this
> content. The name is an obvious namespace pun. We want to work in a
> friendly way with everyone but we also want good stuff and peace and
> support for minority trans disabled mentally wacked out
> counterculture.
> 
> Peace and love and lets make Plan 9 amazing and full of rainbow love,
> JenBen

I like the idea of making Plan 9 more accepting, the techbro saturation
is too high here. I say that as someone who could rightly be classified
as such.
Not sure if rewriting the whole book just to put a different name on
the cover is the best way to go about it. Making a better book
definitely sounds good though.

Side note: technology is political. Deal with it. Software that helps
no one is of no use and who you choose to help with software and count
as a stakeholder (which includes but is not limited to users) is an
inherently political question. Ignoring that just means that you prefer
the status quo.

At the very least with more inclusivity games/memo should be easier to
play in 10 years. ;)

Side note 2: I'd really like to see a bigger emphasis on accessibility
in Plan 9 software. Keyboard navigation would be a good step forward. I
think high contrast and font sizing are already taken care of, more or
less. Internationalization would be cool to support too.
I hope I'm not too much of an SJW heretic for saying that people with
imperfect motor skills (or even just different hardware) should still
be able to use computers. :)
If someone wants to reply that those people should implement those
features themselves, I recommend that they think for 2 seconds first.

As for the book, I haven't been very active in Plan 9 in a while, but
I'm up for proofreading and writing about whatever parts of Plan 9 I do
know. I can also do some illustrations in Blender.
I also volunteer my notes for possible inclusion, I have a pretty
detailed shared 9p root tutorial. It's currently not publicly available
since I took down my wiki, but I can send it here.

Peace and love. UwU

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Clout Tolstoy]

It's actually Mr. Tolstoy. Mr. Clout Tolstoy, and to be frank if you're not
useful or
have interest in helping, why waste your time? I have interest in helping
if I can.

What do you have to offer? Really? I have plenty of time to offer.

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 10:19 AM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:

> no regards at all. stop spamming mr. clout.
>
> On 1/25/22, Clout Tolstoy  wrote:
> > Yo! Work with them if you want to, don't work with them if you don't want
> > to.
> > So, please stop spamming the list with useless infos. Where are all the
> > adults here?
> > Most of you have posted NOTHING useful and probably feel proud of
> yourself,
> > perhaps angry at others?
> >
> > If you can't control what triggers you, maybe you shouldn't go out in
> > public so freely?
> > Or do some self-work, so what triggers you doesn't affect others.  I for
> > one, am  happy
> > for when people announce themselves as allies, or non-allies. Saves me
> > time.
> >
> > adding "+1" is a joke of a comment and 10,000% useless data. STOP with it
> > please.
> > You don't care about their opinions, why should others care about your
> > stupid "+1"?
> >
> > The latest vandel is just an idiot with a keyboard, please don't be that
> > person.
> >
> > I'm here to learn about Plan 9, C coding and hopefully find like minded
> > people to
> > do so with. EVeryone that has opposed this topic here is just a
> > conserivtive snowflake
> > melting with rage in the heat? Is that what I am understanding correctly?
> >
> > If this list isn't about how Plan9 can be the best it could ever be,
> > especially with new
> > people, then get off it please?
> >
> > Now, I'll go back to making popcorn, and watching all the snowflakes
> piled
> > up, melting
> > away. Please  stop being the oppressors of information.
> >
> > Cheers and my best regards!
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:29 AM Wes Kussmaul  wrote:
> >
> >> On 1/25/22 03:58, hiro wrote:
> >> >> A decade ago this list was still a pleasant space
> >> > not really. but i guess you weren't around to truly experience it?
> >> > haven't seen your name in older archives.
> >>
> >> Back then we had discordians disrupting things for sport.
> >>
> >> The latest vandal version is the social justice warrior.
> >>
> >> There will always be unhappy people who have a need to spread their
> >> unhappiness.
> >>
> >> > Sorry Rux Cox, last reply.
> >> > excellent. thanks for leaving after all.
> >>
> >> +1
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> *Wes Kussmaul*
> >>
> >> *Reliable Identities, Inc.*
> >> an Authenticity Enterprise
> >> 738 Main Street
> >> Waltham, MA 02451 USA
> >> t: +1 781 790 1674
> >> m: +1 781 330 1881
> >> e: w...@reliableid.com
> >>
> >> Learn About Authenticity 
> >>
> >> This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise
> >> protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have
> >> received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it
> >> from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents
> >> to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured
> >> unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with
> >> an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.
> >>

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[hiro]

no regards at all. stop spamming mr. clout.

On 1/25/22, Clout Tolstoy  wrote:
> Yo! Work with them if you want to, don't work with them if you don't want
> to.
> So, please stop spamming the list with useless infos. Where are all the
> adults here?
> Most of you have posted NOTHING useful and probably feel proud of yourself,
> perhaps angry at others?
>
> If you can't control what triggers you, maybe you shouldn't go out in
> public so freely?
> Or do some self-work, so what triggers you doesn't affect others.  I for
> one, am  happy
> for when people announce themselves as allies, or non-allies. Saves me
> time.
>
> adding "+1" is a joke of a comment and 10,000% useless data. STOP with it
> please.
> You don't care about their opinions, why should others care about your
> stupid "+1"?
>
> The latest vandel is just an idiot with a keyboard, please don't be that
> person.
>
> I'm here to learn about Plan 9, C coding and hopefully find like minded
> people to
> do so with. EVeryone that has opposed this topic here is just a
> conserivtive snowflake
> melting with rage in the heat? Is that what I am understanding correctly?
>
> If this list isn't about how Plan9 can be the best it could ever be,
> especially with new
> people, then get off it please?
>
> Now, I'll go back to making popcorn, and watching all the snowflakes piled
> up, melting
> away. Please  stop being the oppressors of information.
>
> Cheers and my best regards!
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:29 AM Wes Kussmaul  wrote:
>
>> On 1/25/22 03:58, hiro wrote:
>> >> A decade ago this list was still a pleasant space
>> > not really. but i guess you weren't around to truly experience it?
>> > haven't seen your name in older archives.
>>
>> Back then we had discordians disrupting things for sport.
>>
>> The latest vandal version is the social justice warrior.
>>
>> There will always be unhappy people who have a need to spread their
>> unhappiness.
>>
>> > Sorry Rux Cox, last reply.
>> > excellent. thanks for leaving after all.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Wes Kussmaul*
>>
>> *Reliable Identities, Inc.*
>> an Authenticity Enterprise
>> 738 Main Street
>> Waltham, MA 02451 USA
>> t: +1 781 790 1674
>> m: +1 781 330 1881
>> e: w...@reliableid.com
>>
>> Learn About Authenticity 
>>
>> This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise
>> protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have
>> received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it
>> from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents
>> to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured
>> unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with
>> an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.
>>

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Clout Tolstoy]

Yo! Work with them if you want to, don't work with them if you don't want
to.
So, please stop spamming the list with useless infos. Where are all the
adults here?
Most of you have posted NOTHING useful and probably feel proud of yourself,
perhaps angry at others?

If you can't control what triggers you, maybe you shouldn't go out in
public so freely?
Or do some self-work, so what triggers you doesn't affect others.  I for
one, am  happy
for when people announce themselves as allies, or non-allies. Saves me time.

adding "+1" is a joke of a comment and 10,000% useless data. STOP with it
please.
You don't care about their opinions, why should others care about your
stupid "+1"?

The latest vandel is just an idiot with a keyboard, please don't be that
person.

I'm here to learn about Plan 9, C coding and hopefully find like minded
people to
do so with. EVeryone that has opposed this topic here is just a
conserivtive snowflake
melting with rage in the heat? Is that what I am understanding correctly?

If this list isn't about how Plan9 can be the best it could ever be,
especially with new
people, then get off it please?

Now, I'll go back to making popcorn, and watching all the snowflakes piled
up, melting
away. Please  stop being the oppressors of information.

Cheers and my best regards!



On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:29 AM Wes Kussmaul  wrote:

> On 1/25/22 03:58, hiro wrote:
> >> A decade ago this list was still a pleasant space
> > not really. but i guess you weren't around to truly experience it?
> > haven't seen your name in older archives.
>
> Back then we had discordians disrupting things for sport.
>
> The latest vandal version is the social justice warrior.
>
> There will always be unhappy people who have a need to spread their
> unhappiness.
>
> > Sorry Rux Cox, last reply.
> > excellent. thanks for leaving after all.
> 
> +1
> 
> --
> 
> *Wes Kussmaul*
> 
> *Reliable Identities, Inc.*
> an Authenticity Enterprise
> 738 Main Street
> Waltham, MA 02451 USA
> t: +1 781 790 1674
> m: +1 781 330 1881
> e: w...@reliableid.com
> 
> Learn About Authenticity 
> 
> This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise
> protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have
> received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it
> from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents
> to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured
> unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with
> an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.
> 

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Wes Kussmaul]

On 1/25/22 03:58, hiro wrote:

A decade ago this list was still a pleasant space

not really. but i guess you weren't around to truly experience it?
haven't seen your name in older archives.


Back then we had discordians disrupting things for sport.

The latest vandal version is the social justice warrior.

There will always be unhappy people who have a need to spread their 
unhappiness.



Sorry Rux Cox, last reply.
excellent. thanks for leaving after all.


+1


--



*Wes Kussmaul*

*Reliable Identities, Inc.*
an Authenticity Enterprise
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451 USA
t: +1 781 790 1674
m: +1 781 330 1881
e: w...@reliableid.com

Learn About Authenticity 

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise 
protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have 
received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it 
from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents 
to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured 
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an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.





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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[hiro]

> Insulting people... First this moron that is polluting the mailing
> list with his stupid bot. It can be funny to you now, wait some
> time when you'll try to search the archives.

Are you now trying to casually create the impression that you must
have confused mycroftiv with said bot?

> Then this person starts with this social justice hunting crap,

"social justice hunting" is not descriptive at all.

maybe the term you're searching for is denunciation. and maybe you got
"triggered" (oh the irony) by him not clarifying or backing up with
any kind of evidence.

otoh 9fans has proven itself to be very resistant to general public
opining. which i think we both agree is indeed a good thing. one
single mail (not spamming in my books if it only happens ~once per
year)

> attributing political views to a plan9 contributor because "maybe
> I have heard secondhand..." and then trying to censor his book
> "[...]support oppression[...]", the most complete introductory book
> to plan9 (language faults apart) that exists nowadays. For those
> who don't know, he wrote also an extensive commentary to the Plan
> 9 source code following John Lions' style, there is nothing like
> that anywhere else.
>
> And now he is a victim.

is he? he got accused of one thing by one man. does that make him a
victim? is there a mob, pounding on him, like they do on twitter?

> And all the trolling around... give me a break.

i promise there will be a break in trolling once you learn to make a
coherent argument.


> I don't know J. Ballesteros. I don't know what are his political
> views. I don't bloody care.

I don't bloody care that you don't bloody care.

> This is not a twitter morons'
> group.

In any case 9fans is not twitter, it's up to you to keep your
"morons'" groupies out of this list.

> Just for curiosity

so you're not here to stand for some of your important political
opinions after all? it's all just funny to you?

> in what thread people has been harassed here

every mac os thread is harassment.

> for race, sexual orientation, disablility or whatever you want to

it happens that fashion and disability isn't supported by plan 9. we
discriminate hostowners though.

> add to the list social champion?

social champion? where do you learn terms like this? twitter again?
can i not take part in this conversation without knowing twitter
culture?

> A decade ago this list was still a pleasant space

not really. but i guess you weren't around to truly experience it?
haven't seen your name in older archives.

> with the typical well known trolls vomiting now and then, yes, but still full 
> of
> knowledge and good spirits.

now you are afraid to call the names? or are you just too lazy to
actually read 10 years of emails so you're trying your luck with
unbacked claims, too?

> I don't think there is a point to be subscribed to what is left of
> 9fans anymore.

do us the favour then.

> Sorry Rux Cox, last reply.

(while clearly not addressed to me)
excellent. thanks for leaving after all.

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Alexandr Babic]

genoeg is genoeg
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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Keith Gibbs]

> On 25. Jan 2022, at 9.23, adr  wrote:
> 
> Just for curiosity, in what thread people has been harassed here
> for race, sexual orientation, disablility or whatever you want to
> add to the list social champion?
> 

Perhaps when you said, quote, "I think you are not bipolar, you are just 
another piece of Mr. Hankey.” 

That is an instance that comes to mind. You literally telling a kind, creative 
person who is manages his own mental health/neurodivergence (and is open about 
it), that is he not in fact bipolar, but is instead a talking piece of faeces.

I think we have a kinder space than that here, rather, I think we *should* have 
a kinder space than this.

-pixelheresy
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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Alexandr Babic]

@adr +10
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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[adr]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022, Lucio De Re wrote:


Microftiv deserves the same kind of respect as Nemo and I think - he
can correct me in private if I'm mistaken, I'll publish the correction
if requested to - the former meant to express that respect, but his
subconscious nabbed him.

I also feel the pressure of wanting to work with like minded people,
it's a strong emotional challenge and isn't exactly unjustified. In
fact, this mailing list comes closest to my comfort zone precisely
because Plan 9 is a choice, not a fashionable one.

One could be even more materialistic, but that's not necessary, just
accept that Microftiv was being defensive, without realising he verged
beyond the offensive.

As for everyone else needing to voice an opinion - including myself -
what is your excuse for insulting people of whom you know only one
facet of their personality?

Lucio.


Insulting people... First this moron that is polluting the mailing
list with his stupid bot. It can be funny to you now, wait some
time when you'll try to search the archives.

Then this person starts with this social justice hunting crap,
attributing political views to a plan9 contributor because "maybe
I have heard secondhand..." and then trying to censor his book
"[...]support oppression[...]", the most complete introductory book
to plan9 (language faults apart) that exists nowadays. For those
who don't know, he wrote also an extensive commentary to the Plan
9 source code following John Lions' style, there is nothing like
that anywhere else.

And now he is a victim.

And all the trolling around... give me a break.

I don't know J. Ballesteros. I don't know what are his political
views. I don't bloody care. This is not a twitter morons'
group.

Just for curiosity, in what thread people has been harassed here
for race, sexual orientation, disablility or whatever you want to
add to the list social champion?

A decade ago this list was still a pleasant space, with the typical
well known trolls vomiting now and then, yes, but still full of
knowledge and good spirits.

I don't think there is a point to be subscribed to what is left of
9fans anymore.

Sorry Rux Cox, last reply.

Bye.

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Alexandr Babic]

censorship, very heroistic :-D :-(
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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[hiro]

i reported your mail to the admin, too.

On 1/25/22, adr  wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022, hiro wrote:
>
>> adr, you seem overly invested only judging from the amount of text,
>> where you counter politics, with more politics, and shitty extremely
>> uninformed rhetorics.
> 
> Can you at least respect the administrator of the list and wait to
> another threat to troll as usual?

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[adr]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022, hiro wrote:


adr, you seem overly invested only judging from the amount of text,
where you counter politics, with more politics, and shitty extremely
uninformed rhetorics.


Can you at least respect the administrator of the list and wait to
another threat to troll as usual?

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Russ Cox]

This thread has stopped being respectful and productive. Let's stop here.
Thanks.

Best,
Russ

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Marshall Conover]

Hi mycroftiv!

I'd be happy to lend some support and at least match your bounty. There's a
lot to explore in the 9 universe beyond what has been covered so far, and I
think the work you've done with ants and grid has been fantastic - and
shows your dedication to growing the ecosystem and welcoming new people.

For those who haven't, I'd recommend trying out the grid. It's connectable
from any 9 system, instructions are here:
http://wiki.9gridchan.org/Connecting/index.html
For those who would like to check out the grid's discussion but run linux
like myself, Sigrid created a client '9gc' that's able to access the
gridchat. It's here: https://git.sr.ht/~ft/9pro

I've found the community to be welcoming, helpful, knowledgeable - and,
unlike my lurker self, very active.

Thank you mycroftiv,

Marshall
a_mistake


On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 06:14 mycroftiv 9gridchan <
mycrof...@sphericalharmony.com> wrote:

> Hi 9fans, Got some new ideas im excited about right now.
> Apparently the author of the well-known 'intro to OS abstractions'
> book has political views that are not cool and support oppression
> maybe I have heard secondhand.
> We need a better book to introduce people to 9.
> I'd like to see something created that talks about all forms of 9 and
> of the ANTS variant especially since if im bipolar and spending my
> money to try to help plan 9, im obviously also gonna be hyping my
> stuff along with trying to fight against right wing ideas.
> The cause to make plan 9 an accepting welcoming community for all
> humans requires good information resources and support.
> The funny-named organization I just thought up, The Flan 9 Poundation,
> offers a bounty from me personally of at least $200 for producing this
> content. The name is an obvious namespace pun. We want to work in a
> friendly way with everyone but we also want good stuff and peace and
> support for minority trans disabled mentally wacked out
> counterculture.
> 
> Peace and love and lets make Plan 9 amazing and full of rainbow love,
> JenBen

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Keith Gibbs]

Oh no. Someone doesn’t like Intro to OS abstractions! Someone on the internet 
has an opinion about someone that you may not agree with!

*clutches pearls* *swoons*

You are an adult, right? You can understand people have different opinions and 
motivations. He and others don’t like Mr. Ballesteros’ position. Others happy 
to “death of the author” 9intro and appreciate the work as a text. Others don’t 
care.

Even if you don’t agree with his motivations, I think we do need efforts for 
additional documentation, monograph-length books, and introductory material. 
We, as a point of fact, have a diverse community.

Whether is it specifically about ANTS [which is a very cool project, but 
perhaps a more limited circle than necessary], documentation and enabling new 
people to discover and graduate CS students to continue working on projects 
exploring the Plan 9 system is kind of a good thing. We don’t just need one 
book. We can have lots of books.

-pixelheresy

> On 24. Jan 2022, at 20.33, Alexandr Babic  wrote:
> 
> keith, nice analysis, but what would you think about original post:
> 
> >>Apparently the author of the well-known 'intro to OS abstractions' book has 
> >>political views that are not cool and support oppression maybe I have heard 
> >>secondhand.
> 
> this insult to author of 'intro to OS abstractions' is worse than all 
> vulgarities in this thread :-(
> 
> this link is the 'intro to os abstractions' book 
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web==2ahUKEwjyxsD-gcv1AhWDsKQKHYgFBloQFnoECAUQAQ=http%3A%2F%2Fdoc.cat-v.org%2Fplan_9%2F9.intro.pdf=AOvVaw3V31IcFr5AdwkH5d_JXrVu
>  
> 
> 
> a.b.
> 
> 9fans  / 9fans / see discussions 
>  + participants 
>  + delivery options 
> Permalink 
> 

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Keith Gibbs]

+1 

Instead of responding to an idea that would potentially benefit the whole of 
the community, several people got *personally offended* about the fact that the 
original author wanted to make sure that the effort was inclusive [as there 
*are* LGBTQ+, differently abled, and neurodivergent developers in this 
community]. 

Mr. Babic: “Snowflake" has long changed from being a reference to the 
stereotype of over-sensitive liberals, but has become more apropos for 
conservative types who lose their mind and become verbally abusive [“garbage”, 
“Fuck you”, “9f*gs”], because there is even the most casual reference to 
non-heterosexual, non-cisgendered people *existing*. Which they do, by the way. 
Including in this mailing list.

If that cannot be countenanced without abuse, I guess you and Mr. Normandin are 
in the wrong place. I take personal offence to mycroftiv being called 
“garbage”, as he is a demonstrably valuable member of the Plan 9 community.

-pixelheresy

> On 24. Jan 2022, at 20.02, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 06:55:27PM +0100, Alexandr Babic wrote:
 I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking bizarro 
 for my taste.
>>> If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
>>> safe space, snowflake.
>> 
>> khm, you are using snowflake here in wrong context :-(
>> 
>> first letter from original author was snowflakish,
>> there's no need to use words like "not cool political views, support 
>> oppression, amazing and full of rainbow love"
>> in technical forum.
>> 
>> document "intro to OS abstractions" is great and  i don't what are political 
>> views of author.
>> so tell me who is a snowflake now :-D
> 
> definitely you.  Someone wants to write a book about a technical topic,
> and all you and that other idiot can talk about are the motivations,
> because you are intellectually incapable of contributing to technical
>   work.
> 
> If you don't want to or are incapable of helping with the book, just
> archive/delete the email and move on, instead of pissing and moaning
> about the rest.
> 
> I swear, you snowflakes are the most entitled people.  Not only does
> everyone have to talk about what YOU want to talk about, but they cannot
> deviate from the topic EVEN SLIGHTLY or you start cramping up.  Get a
> life.
> 
> khm

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Lucas Francesco]

khm is absolutely right, some of you are entirely missing the point.
If you REALLY want 9fans to be about "no politics"  y'all shall
discuss what should be done or should be avoided in a new book, what
other books got wrong and maybe if theres something to save about the
one op is paying to substitute, maybe then you'll stop being a
dretiment noise on the ML and help the next introduction of a nice
book.

this "no politics discussion" is bullshit btw, 9fans has always been a
politics mess, plan9-adjacent communities conflicting, some not
getting the respect they deserve and whatnot

I don't care if some of the bigots in here are internalising the fact
that the OP is paying up for other people to literally write a
technical book due to reasons that currently affect the wellbeing of a
lot of contributors of some of those 9 projects, the fact is:
mycroftiv is paying for a technical book about 9, don't care about the
political motivations? don't discuss that aspect. Better plan9
material is good even for you "snowflakes".

On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 at 15:08, Jeremy Jackins  wrote:
> > Fuck you asshole!  It’s garbage like you that morphs pleasant venues into 
> > fucking cesspools.
>
> The lack of self awareness is just stunning.
>
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 at 10:03, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 06:55:27PM +0100, Alexandr Babic wrote:
>> > >> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking 
>> > >> bizarro for my taste.
>> > > If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
>> > > safe space, snowflake.
>> >
>> > khm, you are using snowflake here in wrong context :-(
>> >
>> > first letter from original author was snowflakish,
>> > there's no need to use words like "not cool political views, support 
>> > oppression, amazing and full of rainbow love"
>> > in technical forum.
>> >
>> > document "intro to OS abstractions" is great and  i don't what are 
>> > political views of author.
>> > so tell me who is a snowflake now :-D
>> 
>> definitely you.  Someone wants to write a book about a technical topic,
>> and all you and that other idiot can talk about are the motivations,
>> because you are intellectually incapable of contributing to technical
>> work.
>> 
>> If you don't want to or are incapable of helping with the book, just
>> archive/delete the email and move on, instead of pissing and moaning
>> about the rest.
>> 
>> I swear, you snowflakes are the most entitled people.  Not only does
>> everyone have to talk about what YOU want to talk about, but they cannot
>> deviate from the topic EVEN SLIGHTLY or you start cramping up.  Get a
>> life.
>> 
>> khm
>
> 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Jeremy Jackins]

> Fuck you asshole!  It’s garbage like you that morphs pleasant venues into
fucking cesspools.

The lack of self awareness is just stunning.

On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 at 10:03, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 06:55:27PM +0100, Alexandr Babic wrote:
> > >> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking
> bizarro for my taste.
> > > If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
> > > safe space, snowflake.
> >
> > khm, you are using snowflake here in wrong context :-(
> >
> > first letter from original author was snowflakish,
> > there's no need to use words like "not cool political views, support
> oppression, amazing and full of rainbow love"
> > in technical forum.
> >
> > document "intro to OS abstractions" is great and  i don't what are
> political views of author.
> > so tell me who is a snowflake now :-D
> 
> definitely you.  Someone wants to write a book about a technical topic,
> and all you and that other idiot can talk about are the motivations,
> because you are intellectually incapable of contributing to technical
> work.
> 
> If you don't want to or are incapable of helping with the book, just
> archive/delete the email and move on, instead of pissing and moaning
> about the rest.
> 
> I swear, you snowflakes are the most entitled people.  Not only does
> everyone have to talk about what YOU want to talk about, but they cannot
> deviate from the topic EVEN SLIGHTLY or you start cramping up.  Get a
> life.
> 
> khm

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Thaddeus Woskowiak]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 1:06 PM Thaddeus Woskowiak 
wrote:

> All of you throwing around curse words and other defamation should be
> ashamed of yourselves. You want peace yet you cast the first stones. Grow
> up.
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 12:58 PM Clout Tolstoy 
> wrote:
>
>> Can we be mindful of posting useful information? The original author,
>> albeit has an opinion, but also offered resources for work. I would put
>> that on the useful side of things. Simply lamenting an opinion because it
>> doesn't align with yours is edging on spamming. They have been forward with
>> themselves and are looking for like minded people to work with. I suppose
>> half of you all are doing them a favor by opting out.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 9:55 AM Pablo Tesari 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> did I subscribe to 9fags ? 樂
>>>
>>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 at 14:51, Duke Normandin  wrote:
>>>
 Fuck you asshole!  It’s garbage like you that morphs pleasant venues
 into fucking cesspools.

 > On Jan 24, 2022, at 10:42 AM, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
 wrote:
 >
 > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 05:38:19AM -0700, Duke Normandin wrote:
 >>
 >>
  On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic  wrote:
 
  hello.
 
  please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political
 opinion, but
  discuss it elsewhere.
  sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when
 talking
  about computers :-) :-)
 
  thanx, a.b.
 >>
 >> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking
 bizarro for my taste.
 >
 > If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you
 a
 > safe space, snowflake.
 >
 > khm
>>> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
>>  + participants
>>  + delivery options
>>  Permalink
>> 
>>

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Thaddeus Woskowiak]

All of you throwing around curse words and other defamation should be
ashamed of yourselves. You want peace yet you cast the first stones. Grow
up.


On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 12:58 PM Clout Tolstoy  wrote:

> Can we be mindful of posting useful information? The original author,
> albeit has an opinion, but also offered resources for work. I would put
> that on the useful side of things. Simply lamenting an opinion because it
> doesn't align with yours is edging on spamming. They have been forward with
> themselves and are looking for like minded people to work with. I suppose
> half of you all are doing them a favor by opting out.
>
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 9:55 AM Pablo Tesari 
> wrote:
>
>> did I subscribe to 9fags ? 樂
>>
>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 at 14:51, Duke Normandin  wrote:
>>
>>> Fuck you asshole!  It’s garbage like you that morphs pleasant venues
>>> into fucking cesspools.
>>>
>>> > On Jan 24, 2022, at 10:42 AM, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 05:38:19AM -0700, Duke Normandin wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>  On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  hello.
>>> 
>>>  please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political
>>> opinion, but
>>>  discuss it elsewhere.
>>>  sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when
>>> talking
>>>  about computers :-) :-)
>>> 
>>>  thanx, a.b.
>>> >>
>>> >> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking
>>> bizarro for my taste.
>>> >
>>> > If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
>>> > safe space, snowflake.
>>> >
>>> > khm
>> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
>  + participants
>  + delivery options
>  Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Kurt H Maier via 9fans]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 06:55:27PM +0100, Alexandr Babic wrote:
> >> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking bizarro 
> >> for my taste.
> > If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
> > safe space, snowflake.
> 
> khm, you are using snowflake here in wrong context :-(
> 
> first letter from original author was snowflakish,
> there's no need to use words like "not cool political views, support 
> oppression, amazing and full of rainbow love"
> in technical forum.
> 
> document "intro to OS abstractions" is great and  i don't what are political 
> views of author.
> so tell me who is a snowflake now :-D

definitely you.  Someone wants to write a book about a technical topic,
and all you and that other idiot can talk about are the motivations,
because you are intellectually incapable of contributing to technical
work.  

If you don't want to or are incapable of helping with the book, just
archive/delete the email and move on, instead of pissing and moaning
about the rest.

I swear, you snowflakes are the most entitled people.  Not only does
everyone have to talk about what YOU want to talk about, but they cannot
deviate from the topic EVEN SLIGHTLY or you start cramping up.  Get a
life.

khm

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Clout Tolstoy]

Can we be mindful of posting useful information? The original author,
albeit has an opinion, but also offered resources for work. I would put
that on the useful side of things. Simply lamenting an opinion because it
doesn't align with yours is edging on spamming. They have been forward with
themselves and are looking for like minded people to work with. I suppose
half of you all are doing them a favor by opting out.

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 9:55 AM Pablo Tesari  wrote:

> did I subscribe to 9fags ? 樂
>
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 at 14:51, Duke Normandin  wrote:
>
>> Fuck you asshole!  It’s garbage like you that morphs pleasant venues into
>> fucking cesspools.
>>
>> > On Jan 24, 2022, at 10:42 AM, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 05:38:19AM -0700, Duke Normandin wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>>  On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic  wrote:
>> 
>>  hello.
>> 
>>  please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political
>> opinion, but
>>  discuss it elsewhere.
>>  sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when
>> talking
>>  about computers :-) :-)
>> 
>>  thanx, a.b.
>> >>
>> >> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking
>> bizarro for my taste.
>> >
>> > If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
>> > safe space, snowflake.
>> >
>> > khm
> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
>  + participants
>  + delivery options
>  Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Pablo Tesari]

did I subscribe to 9fags ? 樂

On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 at 14:51, Duke Normandin  wrote:

> Fuck you asshole!  It’s garbage like you that morphs pleasant venues into
> fucking cesspools.
>
> > On Jan 24, 2022, at 10:42 AM, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 05:38:19AM -0700, Duke Normandin wrote:
> >>
> >>
>  On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic  wrote:
> 
>  hello.
> 
>  please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political
> opinion, but
>  discuss it elsewhere.
>  sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when
> talking
>  about computers :-) :-)
> 
>  thanx, a.b.
> >>
> >> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking
> bizarro for my taste.
> >
> > If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
> > safe space, snowflake.
> >
> > khm

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Duke Normandin]

Fuck you asshole!  It’s garbage like you that morphs pleasant venues into 
fucking cesspools.

> On Jan 24, 2022, at 10:42 AM, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 05:38:19AM -0700, Duke Normandin wrote:
>> 
>> 
 On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic  wrote:
 
 hello.
 
 please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political opinion, but
 discuss it elsewhere.
 sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when talking
 about computers :-) :-)
 
 thanx, a.b.
>> 
>> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking bizarro 
>> for my taste. 
>> 
> 
> If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
> safe space, snowflake.
> 
> khm

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Kurt H Maier via 9fans]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 05:38:19AM -0700, Duke Normandin wrote:
> 
> 
> >> On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic  wrote:
> >> 
> >> hello.
> >> 
> >> please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political opinion, but
> >> discuss it elsewhere.
> >> sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when talking
> >> about computers :-) :-)
> >> 
> >> thanx, a.b.
> 
> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking bizarro 
> for my taste. 
> 

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.  Nobody owes you a
safe space, snowflake.

khm

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Duke Normandin]

Maybe so! However it’s all the other bullshit that this list and Plan 9 doesn’t 
need. 

Too many opinions! Remember! Opinions are like assholes - everybody has one. 
And you know what comes out of both more often than not!

Let’s play with Plan 9 and friends and keep the bizarro bullshit at home. 

> On Jan 24, 2022, at 7:44 AM, Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 1:38 PM Duke Normandin  wrote:
 On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic  wrote:
 
 hello.
 
 please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political opinion, but
 discuss it elsewhere.
 sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when talking
 about computers :-) :-)
 
 thanx, a.b.
>> 
>> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking bizarro 
>> for my taste.
>> 
>> Is there a bloody moderator here that not “tripping” most of the time?
>> 
>> Let’s get the garbage off this frigging list and get down to the business of 
>> using/improving Plan 9 and friends.
> 
> The author suggested writing a book on Plan 9 and the potential author
> getting paid for doing so. That would certainly improve the situation,
> in my opinion.

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 1:38 PM Duke Normandin  wrote:
> >> On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic  wrote:
> >>
> >> hello.
> >>
> >> please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political opinion, but
> >> discuss it elsewhere.
> >> sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when talking
> >> about computers :-) :-)
> >>
> >> thanx, a.b.
>
> I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking bizarro 
> for my taste.
>
> Is there a bloody moderator here that not “tripping” most of the time?
>
> Let’s get the garbage off this frigging list and get down to the business of 
> using/improving Plan 9 and friends.

The author suggested writing a book on Plan 9 and the potential author
getting paid for doing so. That would certainly improve the situation,
in my opinion.

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Alexandr Babic]

back to C and 9 :-)
shouldn't we write:
int i=0; ++i;

instead of +1

:-D
-- 
Odesláno aplikací K-9 Mail ze systému Android. Omluvte prosím moji stručnost.
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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Federico Benavento]

> On 24 Jan 2022, at 09:45, Steve Simon  wrote:
> 
> i suggest first you check your facts carefully before publicly accusing 
> anyone of anything.
> 
> throwing unchecked accusations around is a good way to start an angry mob, 
> and we all know how inclusive those tend to be.
> 
> -Steve
> 
> 

+1

—-
Federico G. Benavento
benave...@gmail.com

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Steve Simon]

i suggest first you check your facts carefully before publicly accusing anyone 
of anything.

throwing unchecked accusations around is a good way to start an angry mob, and 
we all know how inclusive those tend to be.

-Steve



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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Duke Normandin]

>> On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic  wrote:
>> 
>> hello.
>> 
>> please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political opinion, but
>> discuss it elsewhere.
>> sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when talking
>> about computers :-) :-)
>> 
>> thanx, a.b.

I agree.  This mailing list is turning out to be a bit too fucking bizarro for 
my taste. 

Is there a bloody moderator here that not “tripping” most of the time?

Let’s get the garbage off this frigging list and get down to the business of 
using/improving Plan 9 and friends. 

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[hiro]

it wouldn't be called *poli*tics if it was just "everyone own's", just fyi.

On 1/24/22, Alexandr Babic  wrote:
> 
> hello.
> 
> please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political opinion, but
> discuss it elsewhere.
> sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when talking
> about computers :-) :-)
> 
> thanx, a.b.
> 
> - Původní zpráva -
> Odesilatel: mycroftiv 9gridchan (mycrof...@sphericalharmony.com)
> Datum: 01/24/22 12:14
> Příjemce: 9fans@9fans.net
> Předmět: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation
> 
> Hi 9fans, Got some new ideas im excited about right now.
> Apparently the author of the well-known 'intro to OS abstractions'
> book has political views that are not cool and support oppression
> maybe I have heard secondhand.
> We need a better book to introduce people to 9.
> I'd like to see something created that talks about all forms of 9 and
> of the ANTS variant especially since if im bipolar and spending my
> money to try to help plan 9, im obviously also gonna be hyping my
> stuff along with trying to fight against right wing ideas.
> The cause to make plan 9 an accepting welcoming community for all
> humans requires good information resources and support.
> The funny-named organization I just thought up, The Flan 9 Poundation,
> offers a bounty from me personally of at least $200 for producing this
> content. The name is an obvious namespace pun. We want to work in a
> friendly way with everyone but we also want good stuff and peace and
> support for minority trans disabled mentally wacked out
> counterculture.
> 
> Peace and love and lets make Plan 9 amazing and full of rainbow love,
> JenBen
> 

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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Alexandr Babic]

hello.

please don't put any politics here, everyone has own political opinion, but 
discuss it elsewhere.
sub-word "trans" should be used only inside "transpiler" word when talking 
about computers :-) :-)

thanx, a.b.
 

 
- Původní zpráva -
Odesilatel: mycroftiv 9gridchan (mycrof...@sphericalharmony.com)
Datum: 01/24/22 12:14
Příjemce: 9fans@9fans.net
Předmět: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

Hi 9fans, Got some new ideas im excited about right now.
Apparently the author of the well-known 'intro to OS abstractions'
book has political views that are not cool and support oppression
maybe I have heard secondhand.
We need a better book to introduce people to 9.
I'd like to see something created that talks about all forms of 9 and
of the ANTS variant especially since if im bipolar and spending my
money to try to help plan 9, im obviously also gonna be hyping my
stuff along with trying to fight against right wing ideas.
The cause to make plan 9 an accepting welcoming community for all
humans requires good information resources and support.
The funny-named organization I just thought up, The Flan 9 Poundation,
offers a bounty from me personally of at least $200 for producing this
content. The name is an obvious namespace pun. We want to work in a
friendly way with everyone but we also want good stuff and peace and
support for minority trans disabled mentally wacked out
counterculture.

Peace and love and lets make Plan 9 amazing and full of rainbow love,
JenBen


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