Re: [9fans] _xinc vs ainc
On Sun May 8 02:01:57 EDT 2011, rminn...@gmail.com wrote: The type signature reveals all: ainc returns a long, and xinc is void. You really can't test the value of the long * after you call xinc because somebody else might have done an xinc after your xinc but before you test the value. sorry ron, i don't see the motivation. the thread library does not use the return value. if it did then clearly it would have been wrong before. i would think that to change the code we would need a good reason. and i see no reason at all yet. - erik
[9fans] Plan 9 IRL
Hi, I've have some curiosity about a few things for a while. The thread about the web and Plan 9 got me rethinking… It's often touted that Plan 9 is a research OS, and I believe that, and I understand some of the implications of that (could swear I went to a NYC USENIX(?) meeting at the foot of the Brooklyn Bridge (Pratt?) to hear Ken and somebody else describe it around what must have been circa 1987?). But I also believe there was also commercial undertones to Plan 9 at some points. Plus, as well, I'm certain that Plan 9 is obviously not just being used by hobbyists and schools and would probably be surprised to here some of the places and some of the things it is being used at/on/with. So, is there is a good sampling provided somewhere of Plan 9 in the real world (commercial or otherwise), notable projects using Plan 9, etc? Although I do see the Bell Labs site mentioning some applications ported to Plan 9 and a short list of organizations using it, I haven't run across much else. For instance, one thing I always like about what Stroustrup did re C++ was to provide a good representational sampling of C++ via say: http://www2.research.att.com/~bs/applications.html and of compilers via say: http://www2.research.att.com/~bs/compilers.html As he writes it is incomplete, but nonetheless still helpful documents IMO. Does something exist to that level in regards to Plan 9? -- Greg Comeau / 4.3.10.1 with C++0xisms now in beta! Comeau C/C++ ONLINE == http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90. Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 IRL
Coraid uses plan 9 in a few places; I think firmware that ships with their hardware is a stripped down plan 9. I know there's other companies that use plan 9, but I'm drawing a blank on them right now.
Re: [9fans] Compiling 9atom kernel WAS: Re: spaces in filenames
On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 09:54:28AM +, Greg Comeau wrote: Some more food for thought: Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, definition, not smart enough to debug it. --Brian Kernighan With a caveat: when one is really clever, one finds the shortest path to the truth i.e. the simplicity; this means that really clever guys make programs easy to debug because these are the simplest ones doing the job. In Brian Kernighan's sentence, s/cleverly/sophisticatedly/ (this is probably a barbarism, but in french sophistiqué is pejorative: obfuscation, convoluted etc.). -- Thierry Laronde tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com http://www.kergis.com/ Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C
Re: [9fans] Compiling 9atom kernel WAS: Re: spaces in filenames
In Brian Kernighan's sentence, s/cleverly/sophisticatedly/ (this is probably a barbarism, but in french sophistiqué is pejorative: obfuscation, convoluted etc.). Sorry, but it's not. it just means complex, and is not usually employed to make any value judgment. Just look it up in any dictionary.
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 IRL
On Sun May 8 11:58:29 EDT 2011, jaketodd...@gmail.com wrote: Coraid uses plan 9 in a few places; I think firmware that ships with their hardware is a stripped down plan 9. I know there's other companies that use plan 9, but I'm drawing a blank on them right now. if you want to participate in this first hand and are willing to move to the athens, ga or redwood city, ca areas, send along those resumes. - erik
Re: [9fans] Compiling 9atom kernel WAS: Re: spaces in filenames
On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 2:27 PM, tlaro...@polynum.com wrote: On Thu, May 05, 2011 at 09:54:28AM +, Greg Comeau wrote: Some more food for thought: Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, definition, not smart enough to debug it. --Brian Kernighan With a caveat: when one is really clever, one finds the shortest path to the truth i.e. the simplicity; this means that really clever guys make programs easy to debug because these are the simplest ones doing the job. In Brian Kernighan's sentence, s/cleverly/sophisticatedly/ (this is probably a barbarism, but in french sophistiqué is pejorative: obfuscation, convoluted etc.). I think one can usually read things into such phrases, sometimes validly sometime invalidly. I also think it is often easy to disprove such phrases, and so to instead to often just try to find the spirit of the phrase even if it is found to be problematic. For instance, easy to debug could mean the program is so riddled with problems just opening to a random part of it will yield a problem with little effort it could also mean to the contrary that it was written so well that any bugs could be easy to find, but equally on the contrary the program could be such a bleeping mess that even though bug riddled getting through the logic etc could be tormenting at best while at the same time a clean program with few bugs can sometimes make finding the long bug harder because it is the lone last one. In the end there is often no pure bug cause or pure bug resolution mechanism but something in the middle that is contextual. All IMO. -- Greg Comeau / 4.3.10.1 with C++0xisms now in beta! Comeau C/C++ ONLINE == http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90. Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?
Re: [9fans] Compiling 9atom kernel WAS: Re: spaces in filenames
On Sun, May 08, 2011 at 08:27:53PM +0200, tlaro...@polynum.com wrote: (this is probably a barbarism, but in french sophistiqué is pejorative: obfuscation, convoluted etc.). In Italian in 1969, sofisticato meant adulterated. I'm not sure if that is still the case. I think I see what you mean. But as for clever, there are shades of meaning there, there's a clever beyond clever that is what you suggest would discover simplicity. Arguing around subtleties in different languages is sophistic at best. ++L
