Re: Kind of solved (Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps))
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:52:54 UTC, John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
[snip]
I've discussed with Jef the idea of merging the jcabc2ps
extensions into abcm2ps. I'd like to use some of his
extensions, too. Maybe we can work on this character-set
issue a bit more, and then look into starting the merger.
I've looked at abcm2ps, and both of us have made some
rather significant changes to the way parts of the code
work. No surprise there. Combining them might bit a bit of
work.
Hello John,
I did some merge in abcm2ps-3.6.2, but I will not change the
command-line options ('+' instead of '-') nor the voice name
separator for many lines ('\\' instead of '\n').
May you check the remaining things to do?
--
Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! **
| http://moinejf.free.fr/
Pépé Jef| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Kind of solved (Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps))
Jean-Francois Moine writes:
| On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:52:54 UTC, John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| wrote:
| [snip]
| I've discussed with Jef the idea of merging the jcabc2ps
| extensions into abcm2ps. I'd like to use some of his
| extensions, too. Maybe we can work on this character-set
| issue a bit more, and then look into starting the merger.
|
| I did some merge in abcm2ps-3.6.2, but I will not change the
| command-line options ('+' instead of '-') nor the voice name
| separator for many lines ('\\' instead of '\n').
|
| May you check the remaining things to do?
I wonder whether we should keep discussing this on
abcusers, or do it in private? A public discussion does
have the advantage of keeping others up to date on what
we've done, and it invites their comments. I can think of
several cases where we might want to bring in the question
of what's the best way to do something, with the idea of
putting it into the standard.
One command-line change that I made, which others might
find useful: I changed the input/output so that jcabc2ps
acts like a conventional unix filter. If there are no
input files, it reads from stdin. If there are no output
options, rather than writing to Out.ps, it writes to
stdout. This way, I can use preprocessors (like abcpp) and
postprocessors (various perl programs I have that munge
postscript), without the mess of creating intermediate
files and then trying to make sure that they're cleaned up.
I found that this really simplified the cleanup job for my
tune finder's conversions. If you don't need to produce
intermediate files, you don't have much cleanup.
Implementing this turned out to be fairly easy. The first
stage was to to through and changed every printf( to
fprintf(stderr,. I verified that the result never wrote
to stdout at all. This is important, because you don't want
to get warning messages mixed with the ps. And to fit in
with other unix software, messages and warnings really
should go to stderr.
The next stage was to find the references to Out.ps, and
change them to deal with stdout instead. This wasn't quite
as trivial, but not terribly difficult. It only took a few
tries before jcabc2ps foo.abc foo.ps produced a foo.ps
that worked ok.
Changing the input to use stdin when there were no input
files was also pretty easy. It mostly consisted of finding
the error messages and changing them to accept a null input
file name as a synonym for stdin.
I did introduce two global flags, use_stdin and use_stdout,
that kept track of what was being done. This wasn't really
necessary, but it made the code a bit simpler and more
readable. A quick check shows that the only C files that
changed were jcabc2ps.c and subs.c, which is probably no
surprise. I could send you the relevant sections, but you
can likely find them just as fast yourself.
I have the impression that, at least on unixoid systems
(which now includes Macs), lots of others have uses for
pre- and post-processors, so many users would find this
useful.
The -o and -O options could be left alone, though I do find
it handy to make -o the default. It's really nice if
the commands
abc2ps foo.abc foo.ps
abc2ps foo.abc foo.ps
do exactly what you expect them to do. This saves me a lot
of Oops! reactions and repeating the command with -o
included.
I suppose you might want another option to suppress ps
output if you don't like the -/+ convention that I adopted.
Or you could use the backwards approach that a lot of
people seem to like, with -o meaning produce ps and +o
meaning don't produce ps output. This strikes me as a bit
perverse, but it's common enough these days.
Of course, true unix geeks would just use /dev/null to
suppress the output.
Anyway, maybe you should set up an alpha release URL for
abcm2ps, and we can create a fast testing loop. I have a
sizable collection of tiny abc test files, most testing
just one feature. I can easily make an abcm2ps test
directory with the same test files, and tell you where I
get failures.
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Re: Kind of solved (Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics(abc2ps))
I wonder whether we should keep discussing this on abcusers, or do it in private? A public discussion does have the advantage of keeping others up to date on what we've done, and it invites their comments. I can think of several cases where we might want to bring in the question of what's the best way to do something, with the idea of putting it into the standard. I for one wouldn't mind if you kept the discussion on the list. I'd be quit interested in seeing the 2 abc2ps descendants converge, if only to save me from having to find out which one I like better ;) I have noticed that both of you have dropped the original abc2ps's transpose function. I guess there's a good reason for that, but I found it quite convenient. One command-line change that I made, which others might find useful: I changed the input/output so that jcabc2ps acts like a conventional unix filter. If there are no input files, it reads from stdin. If there are no output options, rather than writing to Out.ps, it writes to stdout. This way, I can use preprocessors (like abcpp) and postprocessors (various perl programs I have that munge postscript), without the mess of creating intermediate files and then trying to make sure that they're cleaned up. I found that this really simplified the cleanup job for my tune finder's conversions. If you don't need to produce intermediate files, you don't have much cleanup. I have the impression that, at least on unixoid systems (which now includes Macs), lots of others have uses for pre- and post-processors, so many users would find this useful. Being able to use stdin and stdout is nice, yes. At least for stdin, I would have thought however that just givin a filename of '-' would have sufficed to achieve that. Actually, I don't know whether this is a feature of bash, Linux or Unix variants in general, but I guess every environment in which reading from stdin makes sense would provide a similar means!? I've also noticed that with the current version, jcabc2ps ignores the output options and wrtites to stdout in all cases. Is this intended, a bug, or am I doing something wrong? I found especially '-o =' quite useful at times. I suppose you might want another option to suppress ps output if you don't like the -/+ convention that I adopted. Or you could use the backwards approach that a lot of people seem to like, with -o meaning produce ps and +o meaning don't produce ps output. This strikes me as a bit perverse, but it's common enough these days. Actually I wouldn' mind either way, but it would be nice if both programs, while they still exist separately, behaved in the same way in that respect. Greetings, Manuel To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: Kind of solved (Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics(abc2ps))
On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Manuel Reiter wrote: sorry to answer my own post, but I've gotten a bit further after some reading up of Postscript specs and a lot of guesswork. ;-) By modifying 'subs.c' and 'syms.c' modified from the current (08-Apr-2003) version of jcabc2ps jcabc2ps can handle macron (\=), dot (\.), breve (\u) and hacek (\v) accents in what I hope is a fairly portable manner not depending on any special postscript hardware. Thank you for the good work. I hope it'll find its way to abcm2ps as well. Groeten, Irwin Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~* Chazzanut Online: http://www.joods.nl/~chazzanut/ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: Kind of solved ([abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps))
Manuel Reiter writes: | sorry to answer my own post, but I've gotten a bit further after some | reading up of Postscript specs and a lot of guesswork. ;-) I noticed that post, but didn't manage to get around to it yesterday. I just grabbed the latest files and compiled them. After a bit of twiddling to include some recent changes (to make it read from stdin if there are no file names), I tried it and it worked fine. My HP LaserJet4L printer even printed them all very nicely. I'll have to study the code to see how it works. I notice that there is commented-out code for \~x chars. I can understand why this would have to be special, since \~ already has a meaning in w: lines. It would be really nice to make this work. I wonder what the best way to handle the conflict with \~ would be? This is already a bit of a kludge, as it is used to mean a literal tilde. We want to change it to add a tilde to the following char. Maybe a literal tilde would have to be \~~. That would mean a tilde added to itself, which could reasonably be considered a no-op. But I can hear the objection from mathematicians ... | By modifying 'subs.c' and 'syms.c' modified from the current (08-Apr-2003) | version of jcabc2ps found at | | http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/src/jcabc2ps-src.tar.gz I put the modified version at: http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/src/jcabc2ps-20030703-src.tar.gz I've always included a link to a file with such a date. This time, as it's experimental, I'll leave the name jcabc2ps-src.tar.gz as the old version for now, and change it only if the new one looks like it doesn't have any problems. Anyone is welcome to try it and see if they can find old abc that it breaks. | A couple of issues I'm aware of: | ... | | - Placement of the accents works quite well for most characters but is | ugly for high lower-case characters like 'l' and 'b'. One kludge would be to list the tall lower-case letters and treat them as upper case. | I hope anybody besides me finds this helpful. :-) Maybe it will even make | its way into mainstream jcabc2ps when the above issues have been sorted | out. I'll try converting some of my Balkan songs to use this notation, and find out how well it works. One thing I can see missing right now is the cedille that Romanian and Polish use on some letters other than C. I suppose the obvious notation for this would be \,s and \,t. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: Kind of solved ([abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps))
John == John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
John One thing I can see missing right now is the cedille that
John Romanian and Polish use on some letters other than C. I
John suppose the obvious notation for this would be \,s and \,t.
It's called an ogonek (in Polish, anyway), and it's backwards from a
cedilla. That is, a cedilla is like a 5 without the top horizontal
line, and the ogonek is a mirror image of this.
The LaTeX for it is \k{o}, if it's on a lowercase o. You need to
activate T1 encoding for this to work.
--
Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ )
(617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574
233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139
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Re: Kind of solved (Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps))
I. Oppenheim writes: | On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Manuel Reiter wrote: | | sorry to answer my own post, but I've gotten a bit further after some | reading up of Postscript specs and a lot of guesswork. ;-) | | By modifying 'subs.c' and 'syms.c' modified from the | current (08-Apr-2003) version of jcabc2ps jcabc2ps | can handle macron (\=), dot (\.), breve (\u) and | hacek (\v) accents in what I hope is a fairly | portable manner not depending on any special | postscript hardware. | | Thank you for the good work. I hope it'll find its way | to abcm2ps as well. I've discussed with Jef the idea of merging the jcabc2ps extensions into abcm2ps. I'd like to use some of his extensions, too. Maybe we can work on this character-set issue a bit more, and then look into starting the merger. I've looked at abcm2ps, and both of us have made some rather significant changes to the way parts of the code work. No surprise there. Combining them might bit a bit of work. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
Hi John,
| Unfortunately, the hacek and breve accents did not seem to work with my
| versions of either abc2ps or jcabc2ps when I tried them yesterday
| (guessing, then), they were just rendered as 'u' or 'v' preceding the
| would-be-accented letter. I'll have to check versions when I'm back home,
| but if anybody knows off the top of their head which abc2ps clones can
| handle these, I'd be grateful for the hint.
You're right. I've been wanting this from the beginning,
and I've even used notation like \^s and \^c in a few tunes
with the hope that I would eventually learn how to
implement it in my abc2ps clone. It's been a few years, and
I still have no clue whatsoever. On my home printer (HP
LaserJet 4L), I once saw it produce a Polish slash-l
character, which is a hint of a possibility. But I couldn't
reproduce it. The manual doesn't help me.
If looked at it a bit more and came up with what could at least be a
workaround: There are so-called 'combining acccents' in Adobe's
Latin1-Encoding which can be used to produce accented characters. The
following short postscript routine takes a one-lower-case-character string
as an argument and puts a hacek on top of it:
--snip
/hacek {
dup show gsave stringwidth pop dup neg 0 rmoveto
(\237) stringwidth pop sub 2 div 0 rmoveto
(\237) show
grestore
} bind def
--snip
Maybe you can go anywhere from there? A postscript file in which this is
actually used for different letters in different fonts (along with some
remnants of my experimentation) is at
http://www.th.physik.uni-frankfurt.de/~reiter/test.ps
What do you think, would it be feasible to implement this at least for the
combining accents in Adobe's Latin1 Encoding? Could I be of any help?
Greetings,
Manuel
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Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
Hi again, but I'd very much appreciate a list of all (or most ;-) ) available accents. Go to http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/abcyclopedia/view.tpl?kw=Special%20characters Great, thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. Unfortunately, the hacek and breve accents did not seem to work with my versions of either abc2ps or jcabc2ps when I tried them yesterday (guessing, then), they were just rendered as 'u' or 'v' preceding the would-be-accented letter. I'll have to check versions when I'm back home, but if anybody knows off the top of their head which abc2ps clones can handle these, I'd be grateful for the hint. Thanks also to everyone else who answered. Cheers, Manuel To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Jack Campin wrote: : To use accented letter, type the following: : \`a = a with grave [...] : \~n = n with tilde It would be far more partable if ABC software used HTML standards for this and deprecated TeXisms. There's nothing wrong with these TeXisms: they are easy to remember, can be entered on every computer system around the world, are currently implemented in ABC software, and last but not least: they do their job! I prefer typing [\'a] over [aacute;] If you prefer the latter, why not write a preprocessor that converts it back to \'a Groeten, Irwin Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~* To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Bernard Hill wrote: Just no mention of how to get the \ character itself... ? While I can't imagine it being important for too many song lyrics, I'd guess '\\' will or at least should do the trick. Greetings, Manuel To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, I. Oppenheim wrote: I prefer typing [\'a] over [aacute;] If you prefer the latter, why not write a preprocessor that converts it back to \'a it already exists, I wrote it: abcpp (http://abcplus.sourceforge.net/#abcpp) But it's much simpler to use TeX-like sequences. IMHO. Ciao, Guido =8-) -- Guido Gonzato, Ph.D. guido . gonzato at univr . it - Linux System Manager Universita' di Verona (Italy), Facolta' di Scienze MM. FF. NN. Ca' Vignal II, Strada Le Grazie 15, 37134 Verona (Italy) Tel. +39 045 8027990; Fax +39 045 8027928 --- Timeas hominem unius libri To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jack Campin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes I just plop the characters i want in the abc file, like, for example: z D E | G2 G G2 F | E2 E z F G | A2 G (FE) D | F2 E w: v- o et por- que jus- ti- a t- en d'el et de-* rei- tu-ta, I use jcabc2ps to render the file, but any program should be able to handle this. Are we to assume there were some non-ASCII characters in there? My mail client didn't show any, which kinda points to the problem with that... High-bit characters also map onto different things in different systems. : To use accented letter, type the following: : \`a = a with grave [...] : \~n = n with tilde It would be far more partable if ABC software used HTML standards for this and deprecated TeXisms. TeX is never going to get wider use; HTML/XML/XHTML is where all the development is going on and there are far more machines out there with installed software that uses it. And it seems it's increasingly going to be built into the OS with Windows (not in itself any bad thing regardless of the sleazy politics involved). Well I can go with that if we must have an alternative. : What's wrong with simply putting the correct accent in the text? : They're all part of the extended character set, and pretty much a : standard these days. What standard? I got an emailed document from a Word for Windows user today that had a whole pile of n-tildes in it (hex 96, decimal 150). They were presumably typed by that pathetic slave of Satan with the intention that they should be some sort of punctuation or bullet character, but I've no idea what. In that case your user probably used a font which is not in your system, or a version of word later than yours. Many editors (at least on the Mac) can translate the local character set to HTML, so there's no need ever to ship non-portable forms to other people who might have different platforms, however convenient the type-it-straight-in approach might be for you. But this avoids the question of what *is* the character set? For the Americans £ (pound!) and Euro are extended characters yet of course for a European accented characters of all sorts are right there on the keyboard and are typed into the document! To make a Frenchman type \'a when it's a key on the keyboard is pretty strange, if not insulting! ... and what's the \?? code for £ anyway ? Bernard Hill Braeburn Software Author of Music Publisher system Music Software written by musicians for musicians http://www.braeburn.co.uk Selkirk, Scotland To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
Bernard == Bernard Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bernard But this avoids the question of what *is* the character Bernard set? For the Americans £ (pound!) and Euro are extended Bernard characters yet of course for a European accented Bernard characters of all sorts are right there on the keyboard Bernard and are typed into the document! To make a Frenchman type Bernard \'a when it's a key on the keyboard is pretty strange, if Bernard not insulting! I admit to being lazy enough to type á instead of \'a myself, but if I (or your hypothetical Frenchman) really cared about portability, we would either type the \'a or use a system like X-Symbol (for emacsen) that substitutes the correct TeX or HTML for what we type. Speaking of which, do any of the ABC emacs modes play correctly with X-Symbol? -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] uni-frankfurt.de, Manuel Reiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Bernard Hill wrote: Just no mention of how to get the \ character itself... ? While I can't imagine it being important for too many song lyrics, I'd guess '\\' will or at least should do the trick. Certainly... but it must be in the standard. (Could be useful for filenames [titles?] for abc's kept on one's own system) Bernard Hill Braeburn Software Author of Music Publisher system Music Software written by musicians for musicians http://www.braeburn.co.uk Selkirk, Scotland To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
RE: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
-Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] la part de Bernard Hill Envoyé : mardi 1 juillet 2003 09:56 À : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Objet : Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps) [...] But this avoids the question of what *is* the character set? For the Americans £ (pound!) and Euro are extended characters yet of course for a European accented characters of all sorts are right there on the keyboard and are typed into the document! To make a Frenchman type \'a when it's a key on the keyboard is pretty strange, if not insulting! I am a French MS-WINDOWS user but I know that there is several character encoding systems on this planet even for latin alphabets, so I don't find that strange at all. Usage of TeX-like accented characters is in ABC from the beginning. It needs less typing than html so it's OK for me (yes, I'am a TeX/LaTeX user...). Christophe To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
RE: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Christophe Declercq wrote: I am a French MS-WINDOWS user but I know that there is several character encoding systems on this planet even for latin alphabets, so I don't find that strange at all. I'm a Dutch ABC user and also do not find it strange at all. But it seems that English software writers, who do not need those accents themselves, have difficulty understanding the need for a portable transcription system such as [\'a]. Groeten, Irwin Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~* To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, John Chambers wrote: | Unfortunately, the hacek and breve accents did not seem to work with my | versions of either abc2ps or jcabc2ps when I tried them yesterday I believe these hacek and breve accents are only handled by TeX and not by any of the abc2ps clones. I guess that the abc2ps clones can only handle the French, Scandinavian, and German accents. I don't know if there's any way for a program on the computer to know how to make a specific 8-bit byte come out on paper as a particular glyph. You won't like my answer: you will have to embed a suitable font. That is exactly what TeX does. Groeten, Irwin Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~* Chazzanut Online: http://www.joods.nl/~chazzanut/ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Bernard Hill writes: | | ... and what's the \?? code for £ anyway ? \163 ;-) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/list s.html (Actually it's not: it's either 156 or 0163 :-) Bernard Hill Braeburn Software Author of Music Publisher system Music Software written by musicians for musicians http://www.braeburn.co.uk Selkirk, Scotland To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
Jack Campin wrote: I just plop the characters i want in the abc file, like, for example: z D E | G2 G G2 F | E2 E z F G | A2 G (FE) D | F2 E w: v- o et por- que jus- ti- a t- en d'el et de-* rei- tu-ta, I use jcabc2ps to render the file, but any program should be able to handle this. Are we to assume there were some non-ASCII characters in there? My mail client didn't show any, which kinda points to the problem with that... High-bit characters also map onto different things in different systems. Indeed. Nowadays, there are two major standards for (internationalised) text encoding: ISO-8859 and ISO-10646 (Unicode). The former is an 8 bit encoding. That means that every character is encoded with 8 bits, so you can encode 2^8 = 256 characters. The first 128 are the same as in the old ASCII standard, but the others vary. There's a few different ISO-8859 encodings for different languages. ISO-8859-1 (a.k.a. Latin-1) is for Western European languages, ISO-8859-4 for baltic languages, ISO-8859-5 for Cyrillic, etc. This is a problem: you can't put Hebrew text (ISO-8859-8) in the same file as Lithuanian (ISO-8859-4). Furthermore, as we saw in the example above, you can't reliably share the file with other people. A Unicode character is (theoretically) 16 bits, giving 2^16=65536 possible combinations. This is the emerging standard for text encoding, as it is universal: every language can be encoded with Unicode and the file should look the same on *any* computer. : To use accented letter, type the following: : \`a = a with grave [...] : \~n = n with tilde It would be far more partable if ABC software used HTML standards for this and deprecated TeXisms. TeX is never going to get wider use; HTML/XML/XHTML is where all the development is going on and there are far more machines out there with installed software that uses it. And it seems it's increasingly going to be built into the OS with Windows (not in itself any bad thing regardless of the sleazy politics involved). Both the TeX and *ML syntax is fine by me, but you're also limited here! Which characters will you support? How do you encode Cyrillic lyrics? For people that transcribe Russian folksongs, a lyrics line consisting only of stuff like shcha; or \yu (or whatever code you'd define) just doesn't cut mustard. : What's wrong with simply putting the correct accent in the text? : They're all part of the extended character set, and pretty much a : standard these days. What standard? I got an emailed document from a Word for Windows user today that had a whole pile of n-tildes in it (hex 96, decimal 150). They were presumably typed by that pathetic slave of Satan with the intention that they should be some sort of punctuation or bullet character, but I've no idea what. That's *yet* another problem: probably you just don't have the font that the sender used in his document... You can save a font inside a Word document so anyone should be able to read it correctly, but I don't remember how. A printable document should be sent in PDF or PostScript format, at least an open standard. MS Office is neither open, nor a standard. Many editors (at least on the Mac) can translate the local character set to HTML, so there's no need ever to ship non-portable forms to other people who might have different platforms, however convenient the type-it-straight-in approach might be for you. But lyrics in non-latin character sets become totally unreadable. I think the ultimate, definite, best way is supporting Unicode. Mind you, I wouldn't deprecate the TeX codes in the near future and the proposed *ML encoding seems interesting too. cheers, bert -- Bert Van Vreckem Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. -- Dave Barry To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
Hi, could anybody give me any pointers aon how to include accented characters in lyrics with abc2ps or any of its clones? I didnt find anything in the current of drafted abc standards or in the abc2ps documentation. I have a file (found somewhere on the net) which includes \'e and produces an accent aigu in abc2ps, but I'd very much appreciate a list of all (or most ;-) ) available accents. Thanks in advance, Manuel To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Manuel Reiter wrote: could anybody give me any pointers aon how to include accented characters in lyrics with abc2ps This should also be addressed in the upcomming ABC standard... To use accented letter, type the following: \`a = a with grave \'a = a with acute \a = a with umlaut \^o = o with circumflex \~n = n with tilde \,c = c with cedilla Groeten, Irwin Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~* To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], I. Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Manuel Reiter wrote: could anybody give me any pointers aon how to include accented characters in lyrics with abc2ps This should also be addressed in the upcomming ABC standard... To use accented letter, type the following: \`a = a with grave \'a = a with acute \a = a with umlaut \^o = o with circumflex \~n = n with tilde \,c = c with cedilla What's wrong with simply putting the correct accent in the text? à á ä ô ñ ç They're all part of the extended character set, and pretty much a standard these days. Bernard Hill Braeburn Software Author of Music Publisher system Music Software written by musicians for musicians http://www.braeburn.co.uk Selkirk, Scotland To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Alice Corbin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes I just plop the characters i want in the abc file, like, for example: z D E | G2 G G2 F | E2 E z F G | A2 G (FE) D | F2 E w: vê- o et por- que jus- ti- ça tê- en d'el et de-* rei- tu-ta, I use jcabc2ps to render the file, but any program should be able to handle this. (Actually getting the characters into the abc file is dependent on which editor you're using. Sometimes it's easiest to bring up a web page or document with the accented characters and cut and paste them into your file. Oh, and it helps to use a font that can actually display them.) On a PC keyboard you can use the alt key, eg à is alt+0224 and á is Ctrl+alt+a. Have a look at Character Map (StartProgramsAccessoriesSystem ToolsCharacter Map) for the correct sequences. Or install dual-language support. Bernard Hill Braeburn Software Author of Music Publisher system Music Software written by musicians for musicians http://www.braeburn.co.uk Selkirk, Scotland To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
Bernard Hill commented: | In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], I. Oppenheim | To use accented letter, type the following: | \`a = a with grave | \'a = a with acute | \a = a with umlaut | \^o = o with circumflex | \~n = n with tilde | \,c = c with cedilla | | | What's wrong with simply putting the correct accent in the text? | | à á ä ô ñ ç | | They're all part of the extended character set, and pretty much a | standard these days. Yeah; I've done that in a few tunes. The problem is that it only works for people with 8859-1 (Latin-1) software. It'll look really funny to someone in, say, Poland or Thailand. It also leads to complaints from a lot of Americans using Windows, whose software can do some rather imaginitive things with such characters. We've had a few mentions of this problem in the past, but no really good solutions. Putting your abc in unicode form would help a lot, but most people wouldn't know how to do this, and unicode support is still far from universal. A problem I keep coming up with: I have a lot of music with lyrics in several languages. Most of the gimmicks for saying what character set you're using are on a whole-file basis. But what I'd like to do is mix English, Finnish, Russian and Yiddish text in the same tune. I wonder if we can come up with a simple scheme for doing this in abc? To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, I. Oppenheim wrote: This should also be addressed in the upcomming ABC standard... I have already written a paragraph about it. To use accented letter, type the following: \`a = a with grave \'a = a with acute \a = a with umlaut \^o = o with circumflex \~n = n with tilde \,c = c with cedilla and many others. A more complete list will be available in the upcoming ABC 2.0.0 draft. Later, Guido =8-) -- Guido Gonzato, Ph.D. guido . gonzato at univr . it - Linux System Manager Universita' di Verona (Italy), Facolta' di Scienze MM. FF. NN. Ca' Vignal II, Strada Le Grazie 15, 37134 Verona (Italy) Tel. +39 045 8027990; Fax +39 045 8027928 --- Timeas hominem unius libri To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
Manuel Reiter wrote: ... but I'd very much appreciate a list of all (or most ;-) ) available accents. Go to http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/abcyclopedia/view.tpl?kw=Special%20characters (that URL is so long it may be broken up by some email client - if so, copy and paste - or you can go to http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/abcyclopedia/index.tpl and select S and then Special characters) Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
