[libreoffice-accessibility] LibreOffice Writer's read-only mode and screen readers
Using LibreOffice Writer with Orca under Linux, I recently found that I couldn't navigate a read-only document with the usual cursor movement keys. Thus, I couldn't read it without using Ctrl-Shift-M to exit read-only mode. The scenario was straightforward: I opened an e-mail attachment, and the file was treated as read-only. Is there a way to keep the read-only status while allowing normal cursor movement in the editor? The other LibreOffice applications may be similarly affected - I haven't checked. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] some issues with screen reader accessibility
On 13/10/23 03:27, Michael Weghorn wrote: On 2023-10-12 20:27, Jason White wrote: On an unrelated issue, the accessibility of comments in LibreOffice Writer was recently raised on the Orca mailing list. Change tracking (reporting of insertions and deletions) is an associated feature that has not, to my knowledge, been made accessible to screen reader users in LibreOffice. Anyone needing to make effective use of comments and change tracking using a screen reader would likely need to turn to a proprietary office application instead, for which the necessary API support has been in place for some time. Thanks for mentioning that. Thanks for the explanation of the API status of these features (not quoted here for brevity), and for taking up the problem. I've needed to use comments and change tracking in word processor files in the past; it's likely that I will need them again in the future, and the only solution is currently to use a proprietary word processor. As I generally write in a markup language such as LaTeX or Markdown, my interactions with word processor files usually involve reading, editing or reviewing other peoples' documents. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Inserting comments with a screen reader.
On 11/2/24 09:22, V Stuart Foote wrote: The + 4 to land directly on the Navigator deck followed by and Cursor down movements down to the Comments nodes does expose the content of each of the comments. Additionally when focused on a comment in Windows the + will expose the context menu for the comment allowing editing and a go to action. Thank you for the update. The next time I receive an office-file-format document containing comments, I'll try the above-mentioned features. I'm using Linux with Orca. Naturally, I would welcome improvements in this area. I shouldn't have to turn to Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office just to read and respond to comments in a document. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Notes on LibreOffice 24.2 under Linux with Orca, GNOME 45.7
On 21/2/24 12:58, Jason J.G. White wrote: 2. Also in Writer, Shift-Pgdn is supposed to move into the footnote area, but doesn't achieve anything. With apologies, that should be Ctrl-Shift-Pgdn, which is listed in the documentation but isn't working for me. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[libreoffice-accessibility] Notes on LibreOffice 24.2 under Linux with Orca, GNOME 45.7
Thank you for all of the ongoing work on LibreOffice accessibility. I noticed a few issues that may be Orca or LibreOffice-related - I don't know which is responsible. Orca is undergoing extensive development at the moment, which I'm testing by running the latest code from the main branch. 1. In LibreOffice Writer, if I issue the F5 command to start the Navigator, focus moves there, but I can't bring focus to the tree of objects to be navigated, either with Tab/Shift-Tab or with cursor keys. There are unlabelled toggle buttons, but no tree object. 2. Also in Writer, Shift-Pgdn is supposed to move into the footnote area, but doesn't achieve anything. Any insights? -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Saving to any particular location and grammar checker addon
On 14/12/23 12:59, FARHAN ISHRAK Fahim wrote: No, it is not happening on windows. I can write the name of the file. However, I cannot change the location or directory. As far as I know, these dialogues are usually supplied by the operating system rather than the application, so I don't know why you wouldn't be able to specify the directory. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Saving to any particular location and grammar checker addon
On 11/12/23 13:47, FARHAN ISHRAK Fahim wrote: I am using windows 10 22h2, nvda 2023.3 and libreoffice 7.5. If I want to save a word file to any particular directory, I cannot do it. I am using Linux, not Windows, but if I type Ctrl-S to save a file, I am presented with a dialogue that lets me choose the directory and edit the default file name before saving. Is this not what happens for you under Windows? Can you describe the problem in more detail? -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Notes on LibreOffice 24.2 under Linux with Orca, GNOME 45.7
On 23/2/24 10:11, Michael Weghorn wrote: 1) When the Navigator is undocked, i.e. in a separate window, F5 brings focus to it and the focus announcement works as expected. I was able to achieve this result by deleting my LibreOffice configuration (rm -rf ~/.config/libreoffice). 2) When its docked (e.g. to the left side of the Writer window), F5 toggles the navigator on/off, but doesn't bring focus to it. In that case, F6 can be used until you end up at the navigator, then move around there using the tab and arrow keys. At least on the tree, focus announcement works. (With orca main, there's an extra "Navigator" announcement before the actual tree element that I don't get with the version from Debian testing, but it generally works with both.) Another strategy, at least in GNOME, is to use Alt-` to move focus to the Navigator window. There are unlabelled toggle buttons, but no tree object. I can reproduce this for many of the UI elements above the tree view in the navigator with the gtk3 variant of LibreOffice (which uses native Gtk widgets), but not when non-native VCL widgets are used, e.g. when using the qt6 variant. In the latter case, the quick help/tooltip text is used for the accessible name as well (code pointer: VCLXAccessibleToolBoxItem::getAccessibleName and VCLXAccessibleToolBoxItem::GetText). I expect the Arch Linux package I'm running was built with GTK3. 2. Also in Writer, Shift-Pgdn is supposed to move into the footnote area, but doesn't achieve anything. With apologies, that should be Ctrl-Shift-Pgdn, which is listed in the documentation but isn't working for me. I confirm this is mentioned in the help [1], but doesn't do what is described there. For me, Ctrl+Shift+PageDown zooms out of the document (and Ctrl+Shift+PageUp zooms in). However, when I manually assign this shortcut via "Tools" -> "Customize" -> "Keyboard", this works to jump to the footnotes. (I assigned Shift+ Ctrl + PageDown to the "Navigate" -> "Edit Footnote/Endnote" function.) Could you possibly create a bug report in Bugzilla so this can be tracked? (Somebody more knowledgeable will have to decide whether the current behavior is correct and it's a documentation/help bug or whether the help is correct and the behavior is wrong.) Yes, I'll submit a bug report. There's no screen reader output or any other indication after issuing Ctrl-Shift-Pgdn. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Write documents read only.
On 11/4/24 07:04, Michael Weghorn wrote: Do you mean that navigation using the text cursor/caret isn't possible? If so, please see this reply from an earlier question asked here which describes how to enable it: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/msg01076.html Thank you - this just solved a problem that I had noticed with e-mail attachments being loaded in read-only mode, and which I was unable to read or navigate. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Shortcuts on a document opened in Writer.
On 9/5/24 15:17, Gabriele Battaglia wrote: Hi. With NVDA, How can I use the key shortcuts to move along a writer document? Commands like H to jump over headers? I don't know whether this is supported - it isn't in Linux, which is the environment with which I'm familiar, due to LibreOffice limitations. However, I just use the Navigator in LibreOffice, and I don't miss the screen reader navigation commands. Having the feature as part of the application is better, in my opinion. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] New user
On 3/5/24 18:46, Keith Reedy wrote: I am a new user of writer the latest version. I am looking for anything that mite get me up to speed. There's plenty of documentation on the Web at https://documentation.libreoffice.org/en/english-documentation/ A quick Web search will locate lists of keyboard commands. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: Fwd: [libreoffice-accessibility] Shortcuts on a document opened in Writer.
On 13/5/24 03:43, Vivien Palcic wrote: I have the Navigator turned on, but this isn't helpful when trying to navigate within a table - eg between columns or rows etc. It just gets me into the table and NVDA reads off the whole lot, whereas I'm trying to get around within the table without affecting the contents, From memory, Tab and Shift-Tab move cell by cell. Someone more familiar with NVDA and LibreOffice might be able to explain what's happening with the NVDA table navigation commands. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Notes on LibreOffice 24.2 under Linux with Orca, GNOME 45.7
On 23/2/24 11:25, Jason J.G. White wrote: Yes, I'll submit a bug report. There's no screen reader output or any other indication after issuing Ctrl-Shift-Pgdn. I've created https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159863 The bug describes the accessibility-related use cases. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Notes on LibreOffice 24.2 under Linux with Orca, GNOME 45.7
On 23/2/24 10:19, Michael Weghorn wrote: By the way, do you know whether the issues you report are regressions, i.e. whether they were working correctly earlier? And if so: Do you know with what versions of LibreOffice and/or Orca? The source of the footnote keyboard accessibility issue has been tracked down and now appears in the bug entry. For the GTK 3 label problem, I don't know whether there is a regression. However, I think there ought to be tools for detecting this kind of trivial accessibility bug. I'm not a frequent user of LibreOffice, and it's mostly for working with other peoples' documents. My own writing is mostly in LaTeX, Markdown or HTML format, in Git repositories. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] LibreOffice Writer 24.2.1.2 for Windows: Pressing the Alt Key by Itself No Longer Moves Focus to the Menu Bar
On 4/3/24 12:58, David Goldfield wrote: In previous versions pressing the alt key by itself moved focus to the menu bar. While I can still press key combinations such as alt-f to open the File menu pressing just the alt key does nothing. Pressing f10 moves focus to the menu bar but pressing alt is a bit easier. Interestingly, pressing Alt alone never moved focus in any version of LibreOffice that I can recall, under Linux. Thus it seems to be a Windows-specific issue. F10 always worked though, and still does. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[libreoffice-accessibility] menu navigation issue
I noted the following on the Orca mailing list recently, but others were unable to reproduce it. The issue below is not a priority for me at the moment, but I'm reporting it here in case it can be resolved to prevent others from encountering it. Environment: LibreOffice 24.2.4, GNOME 46.2, recent Orca version from the main Git branch, Arch Linux distribution. I also tried the version of LibreOffice available as a flatpak, with the same results. Steps to Reproduce 1. From LibreOffice Calc or LibreOffice Writer (both tested), F10 to move focus to the menus. The File menu item is in focus, and Orca presents it. 2. Right-Arrow. Expected Result: focus should move to the Edit menu, and subsequent left/right-arrow navigation should move among the top-level menu items. Actual result: focus seems to move back into the document. I am unable to navigate the menus reliably. Using the Alt key with various letters does bring focus to the respective top-level menu items. I also tried obliterating my LibreOffice configuration under ~/.config/libreoffice, but with the same outcome. I can perform further testing, if desired. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] menu navigation issue
Adding the Orca list to this discussion, as the bug may be a GTK or Orca issue, as Michael helpfully details below. On 11/6/24 00:39, Michael Weghorn wrote: On 2024-06-10 14:14, Jason J.G. White wrote: I noted the following on the Orca mailing list recently, but others were unable to reproduce it. The issue below is not a priority for me at the moment, but I'm reporting it here in case it can be resolved to prevent others from encountering it. Environment: LibreOffice 24.2.4, GNOME 46.2, recent Orca version from the main Git branch, Arch Linux distribution. I also tried the version of LibreOffice available as a flatpak, with the same results. Steps to Reproduce 1. From LibreOffice Calc or LibreOffice Writer (both tested), F10 to move focus to the menus. The File menu item is in focus, and Orca presents it. 2. Right-Arrow. Expected Result: focus should move to the Edit menu, and subsequent left/right-arrow navigation should move among the top-level menu items. Actual result: focus seems to move back into the document. I am unable to navigate the menus reliably. Using the Alt key with various letters does bring focus to the respective top-level menu items. I can reproduce something similar with gtk3-demo and Orca git main, so it looks like an issue in either GTK or Orca to me, not in LibreOffice: 1) start gtk3-demo 2) start the "Menus" sample app 3) press F10 to put focus on the menu (the first item: "test line") 4) press right arrow Actual result: Keyboard focus visually moves to the next menu item "foo" as expected (visually), but Orca announces "Flip, push button" (which is the button in the sample program that has focus once the menu gets collapsed again) Expected result: The newly focused menu item should get announced: "foo, menu" This isn't 100% reproducible: When further moving back and forth between the menu items using the arrow keys, announcement is usually OK. Versions used, on Debian testing: libgtk-3-0:amd64 3.24.41-1 Orca git main as of commit 9b8d9ffd8793bf3a1176fed77b4ce283a43cefe8 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [orca] Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] menu navigation issue
On 11/6/24 07:38, Joanmarie Diggs wrote: BTW, are you using Wayland and gnome-shell? If so, it sounds like https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/3267. Although that was fixed four months ago. Yes, it's GNOME-Shell under Wayland. I just tried it again under a GNOME-Shell X11 session, and I am unable to reproduce the bug there. The version of Mutter is 46.2. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[libreoffice-accessibility] Accessibility of images with alternative text in LibreOffice Writer
After importing an OOXML (from MS-Word) document into LibreOffice Writer 24.2.4, using Orca as the screen reader I was unable to read the alternative text associated with an image. I don't think I can share the document, but I would be interested to know whether anyone else here can reproduce the issue. To reproduce, it should be sufficient to read a line containing an imge that has alternative text associated with it. Microsoft 365 was able to read it, establishing its presence. I don't know whether the problem was with use of the accessibility API or the conversion from OOXML format. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Accessibility of images with alternative text in LibreOffice Writer
On 18/6/24 02:53, Michael Weghorn wrote:
There is this existing bug report which sounds like it describes the
same issue:
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77679
("[ACCESSIBILITY] Accessibility support for replaced objects is
incomplete")
Orca does however announce the accessible *name* (not the description
by default, at least in my setup) when using the "To Next Frame"
shortcut Shift+F4 to select the image.
This is interesting. My concern is that (as in the example I read
yesterday), I wouldn't even know the image was there if it the text
alternative were not read by default. In that case, it was an
organizational logo at the start of the document.
--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/
Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: [a11y] LibreOffice Calc exposes 2^31 children, freezes on `GetChildren`
On 14/6/24 17:25, Michael Weghorn wrote: Personal preferences aside, Windows/NVDA as the most widely used platform indeed generally has some priority for me, as does Writer over Calc over everything else. There are other factors I also take into account, though, e.g. involvement/contributions from others like people working in certain areas, user requests/tickets, possibilities to cooperate (e.g. the Orca maintainer reworking Orca's LibreOffice support and providing a lot of helpful feedback and input) or productivity (my productivity on Linux is way higher than on Windows, so my take is that putting some extra initial effort in order to be able to do most of the analysis for issues *also* affecting Windows on Linux usually pays off, in particular since the platform APIs IAccessible/AT-SPI2 are fairly similar). A further consideration is that, unlike Windows users, Linux users don't have the option of running Microsoft Office without setting up virtualization, rebooting the machine to a different environment, or using a different machine for the purpose. Of course, some Windows users might not be able to afford it, and they're also an important group to consider, as are those who prefer the LibreOffice interface. I personally have access to Microsoft Office as well at the moment, but, obviously, not in my Linux environment. I think the problem of disclosing large documents to accessibility APIs is real and important. I suspect this explains the extraordinary performance issue that occurs if you try to open a long document in Microsoft Word for Mac with the VoiceOver screen reader enabled - the application can be completely unresponsive for several minutes, even on a fast machine, while the document loads. My limited understanding of the new protocol proposed for Linux by the GNOME Foundation is that it is expected to use pipes for data transfer, giving better performance than DBus calls. So my naive question is: what would be the performance cost of transferring a large document over the proposed API? Could it be partly done in the background, so that the user can at least start to read/edit the document from the top while the data structures are built and sent to the screen reader? My assumption is that once the initial transfer is done, all the remaining updates are incremental, and relatively fast. Other users may disagree, of course, but from my perspective, having the application hang while loading a large document would be unacceptable. However, having to wait a little if I first load a large document, then jump to the end of it (in the worst-case scenario) would be more acceptable. Obviously, loading a large document and then immediately retrieving a list of headings, links etc., is another scenario that would be subject to potential performance issues. It probably depends on what the over-all delays are. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
