Re: [AFMUG] Security System

2021-11-09 Thread Josh Luthman 
Right now I'm looking at Axis cameras and Xeoma software.  Haven't gotten
around to setting it up, but it's got a Linux installer so I'm pretty happy
just having that.

Looking at https://www.dpstele.com/ for fire/smoke/contacts/LP/etc sensor
for our CO.  Haven't bought, they are clearly telco focused, which is good
and bad.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 8:45 PM Robert  wrote:

> Hmmm, almost like someone there worked at Apple or something...
>
> On 11/9/21 4:31 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I was burned by AirVision.  It had some wizbang features, but essentially
> it was not fit for purpose.  It was like they were so focused on their
> new/cool/glossy features they forgot that it had to also have the basic
> functionality of any other NVR.
>
>
>
> We still have UniFi Video at the office and still getting burned by
> Ubiquiti’s practice of abandoning hardware.  Our current generation of
> cameras doesn’t work with the current version of the DVR, and the older DVR
> version isn’t updated anymore.  Neither our older DVR or the current ones
> support the older generation of cameras.
>
>
>
> I guess it’s ok if you either never want to add a camera or if you’re
> willing to replace the entire system every few years.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Ryan Ray
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 09, 2021 5:05 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Security System
>
>
>
> lol, I will never use Ubiquiti.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 12:54 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
> Have you looked at ubiquiti?
>
> On 11/9/21 12:12, Ryan Ray wrote:
>
> Anyone have any recommendations for a new Camera, Access Control +
> Security for approx 40 sites? Including smaller CO buildings.
>
>
>
> Subscribed to ipvm.com trying to get some insights into the industry, and
> it seems extremely locked down unless we can find a company who is
> partnered with DSC, alarm.com, whoever, but then they want to do all the
> installations as well, until they hear they'll have to travel 2000+km to
> remote sites, then they don't want to work with us anymore and things get
> stalled out.
>
>
>
> We can do the installations ourselves, just need a good solution.
> Preferably on prem, integrated with AD.
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Security System

2021-11-09 Thread Robert 

Hmmm, almost like someone there worked at Apple or something...

On 11/9/21 4:31 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:


I was burned by AirVision.  It had some wizbang features, but 
essentially it was not fit for purpose. It was like they were so 
focused on their new/cool/glossy features they forgot that it had to 
also have the basic functionality of any other NVR.


We still have UniFi Video at the office and still getting burned by 
Ubiquiti’s practice of abandoning hardware.  Our current generation of 
cameras doesn’t work with the current version of the DVR, and the 
older DVR version isn’t updated anymore.  Neither our older DVR or the 
current ones support the older generation of cameras.


I guess it’s ok if you either never want to add a camera or if you’re 
willing to replace the entire system every few years.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Ryan Ray
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 09, 2021 5:05 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Security System

lol, I will never use Ubiquiti.

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 12:54 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

Have you looked at ubiquiti?

On 11/9/21 12:12, Ryan Ray wrote:

Anyone have any recommendations for a new Camera, Access
Control + Security for approx 40 sites? Including smaller CO
buildings.

Subscribed to ipvm.com  trying to get some
insights into the industry, and it seems extremely locked down
unless we can find a company who is partnered with DSC,
alarm.com , whoever, but then they want to
do all the installations as well, until they hear they'll have
to travel 2000+km to remote sites, then they don't want to
work with us anymore and things get stalled out.

We can do the installations ourselves, just need a good
solution. Preferably on prem, integrated with AD.

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] Security System

2021-11-09 Thread Jaime Solorza 
We replaced all the Air vision gear with Hikvisionhave never looked
back...it works.

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 5:32 PM  wrote:

> I was burned by AirVision.  It had some wizbang features, but essentially
> it was not fit for purpose.  It was like they were so focused on their
> new/cool/glossy features they forgot that it had to also have the basic
> functionality of any other NVR.
>
>
>
> We still have UniFi Video at the office and still getting burned by
> Ubiquiti’s practice of abandoning hardware.  Our current generation of
> cameras doesn’t work with the current version of the DVR, and the older DVR
> version isn’t updated anymore.  Neither our older DVR or the current ones
> support the older generation of cameras.
>
>
>
> I guess it’s ok if you either never want to add a camera or if you’re
> willing to replace the entire system every few years.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Ryan Ray
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 09, 2021 5:05 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Security System
>
>
>
> lol, I will never use Ubiquiti.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 12:54 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
> Have you looked at ubiquiti?
>
> On 11/9/21 12:12, Ryan Ray wrote:
>
> Anyone have any recommendations for a new Camera, Access Control +
> Security for approx 40 sites? Including smaller CO buildings.
>
>
>
> Subscribed to ipvm.com trying to get some insights into the industry, and
> it seems extremely locked down unless we can find a company who is
> partnered with DSC, alarm.com, whoever, but then they want to do all the
> installations as well, until they hear they'll have to travel 2000+km to
> remote sites, then they don't want to work with us anymore and things get
> stalled out.
>
>
>
> We can do the installations ourselves, just need a good solution.
> Preferably on prem, integrated with AD.
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Security System

2021-11-09 Thread Nate Burke 
I still have a bunch of MFI units new in box  on the shelf.  I really 
feel sorry for the guys that were using the UBNT Solar stuff.


On 11/9/2021 6:31 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:


I was burned by AirVision. Â It had some wizbang features, but 
essentially it was not fit for purpose.  It was like they were so 
focused on their new/cool/glossy features they forgot that it had to 
also have the basic functionality of any other NVR.


We still have UniFi Video at the office and still getting burned by 
Ubiquiti’s practice of abandoning hardware.  Our current generation 
of cameras doesn’t work with the current version of the DVR, and the 
older DVR version isn’t updated anymore.  Neither our older DVR or 
the current ones support the older generation of cameras.


I guess it’s ok if you either never want to add a camera or if 
you’re willing to replace the entire system every few years.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Ryan Ray
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 09, 2021 5:05 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Security System

lol, I will never use Ubiquiti.

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 12:54 PM Jan-GAMs > wrote:


Have you looked at ubiquiti?

On 11/9/21 12:12, Ryan Ray wrote:

Anyone have any recommendations for a new Camera, Access
Control + Security for approx 40 sites? Including smaller CO
buildings.

Subscribed to ipvm.com  trying to get some
insights into the industry, and it seems extremely locked down
unless we can find a company who is partnered with DSC,
alarm.com , whoever, but then they want to
do all the installations as well, until they hear they'll have
to travel 2000+km to remote sites, then they don't want to
work with us anymore and things get stalled out.

We can do the installations ourselves, just need a good
solution. Preferably on prem, integrated with AD.

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] Security System

2021-11-09 Thread dmmoffett 
I was burned by AirVision.  It had some wizbang features, but essentially it 
was not fit for purpose.  It was like they were so focused on their 
new/cool/glossy features they forgot that it had to also have the basic 
functionality of any other NVR.

 

We still have UniFi Video at the office and still getting burned by Ubiquiti’s 
practice of abandoning hardware.  Our current generation of cameras doesn’t 
work with the current version of the DVR, and the older DVR version isn’t 
updated anymore.  Neither our older DVR or the current ones support the older 
generation of cameras.

 

I guess it’s ok if you either never want to add a camera or if you’re willing 
to replace the entire system every few years.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Ryan Ray
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2021 5:05 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security System

 

lol, I will never use Ubiquiti. 

 

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 12:54 PM Jan-GAMs mailto:j.vank...@grnacres.net> > wrote:

Have you looked at ubiquiti?

On 11/9/21 12:12, Ryan Ray wrote:

Anyone have any recommendations for a new Camera, Access Control + Security for 
approx 40 sites? Including smaller CO buildings.  

 

Subscribed to ipvm.com   trying to get some insights into the 
industry, and it seems extremely locked down unless we can find a company who 
is partnered with DSC, alarm.com  , whoever, but then they 
want to do all the installations as well, until they hear they'll have to 
travel 2000+km to remote sites, then they don't want to work with us anymore 
and things get stalled out.

 

We can do the installations ourselves, just need a good solution. Preferably on 
prem, integrated with AD. 

 

-- 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Security System

2021-11-09 Thread Ryan Ray 
lol, I will never use Ubiquiti.

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 12:54 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> Have you looked at ubiquiti?
> On 11/9/21 12:12, Ryan Ray wrote:
>
> Anyone have any recommendations for a new Camera, Access Control +
> Security for approx 40 sites? Including smaller CO buildings.
>
> Subscribed to ipvm.com trying to get some insights into the industry, and
> it seems extremely locked down unless we can find a company who is
> partnered with DSC, alarm.com, whoever, but then they want to do all the
> installations as well, until they hear they'll have to travel 2000+km to
> remote sites, then they don't want to work with us anymore and things get
> stalled out.
>
> We can do the installations ourselves, just need a good solution.
> Preferably on prem, integrated with AD.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Security System

2021-11-09 Thread Jan-GAMs 

Have you looked at ubiquiti?

On 11/9/21 12:12, Ryan Ray wrote:
Anyone have any recommendations for a new Camera, Access Control + 
Security for approx 40 sites? Including smaller CO buildings.


Subscribed to ipvm.com  trying to get some insights 
into the industry, and it seems extremely locked down unless we can 
find a company who is partnered with DSC, alarm.com 
, whoever, but then they want to do all the 
installations as well, until they hear they'll have to travel 2000+km 
to remote sites, then they don't want to work with us anymore and 
things get stalled out.


We can do the installations ourselves, just need a good solution. 
Preferably on prem, integrated with AD.
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] Security System

2021-11-09 Thread Ryan Ray 
Anyone have any recommendations for a new Camera, Access Control + Security
for approx 40 sites? Including smaller CO buildings.

Subscribed to ipvm.com trying to get some insights into the industry, and
it seems extremely locked down unless we can find a company who is
partnered with DSC, alarm.com, whoever, but then they want to do all the
installations as well, until they hear they'll have to travel 2000+km to
remote sites, then they don't want to work with us anymore and things get
stalled out.

We can do the installations ourselves, just need a good solution.
Preferably on prem, integrated with AD.
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Licensed Dish RF Pattern

2021-11-09 Thread Peter Kranz via AF 
I think what these spec sheets do not do a good job of explaining, is that
there is a bullseye pattern situated around the main lobe. This means that
if you scan left and right, or up and down.. you should find a secondary
peak about -10db lower in each of the 4 directions when properly aligned.
Inexperienced installers can easily get mis-led by peaking to this side-lobe
ring and miss the center of the bulls eye entirely by being too high or too
low.

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2021 7:56 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Licensed Dish RF Pattern

We were aligning an RFS 18ghz dish, and the climber said that he found a
bunch of Sidelobes as he was moving it around.  I went looking for the RF
pattern of the dish to see what they looked like, with the Centerline and
the peaks and valleys going away from it, but I don't find the RF pattern on
the RFS Website.  Is that something that the licensed dishes don't do or
have I just not found it yet?

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Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit

2021-11-09 Thread Chuck McCown via AF 
Right, so we limit it to 200 PSI to keep from blowing up the pipe.  If the dart 
gets good and stuck it can go that high and we know what happened.
Conversely if the pressure drops and things stop moving, we know a coupling has 
blown apart.  Either way sequentials let us wheel it off and dig it up.  

From: Jan-GAMs 
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 11:17 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit

Why would you want that much pressure when it's flow doing the work, not 
pressure.  You don't want to blow up the pipe do you?


On 11/9/21 10:04, Carl Peterson wrote:

  Can this duct hold 200 psi?   


  On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:50 AM Chris Fabien  wrote:

Chuck, Interesting idea. Does this scale up to long distances like
blowing does? Water seems like it would have a lot more resistance in
a mile of 1.25" pipe but perhaps with 200psi behind it that's no
issue?

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 3:46 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> Right, they are always full of water.
> I made a proofing dart with a cup seal at the end.
> 20 GPM 200 PSI moves it along at about 5 feet per second.  The pump was 
remarkably cheap to build.
>
> The cable or mule tape is buoyant so that reduces friction and the water 
does too.  I have read about this for years but never tried it.
>
> From: TJ Trout
> Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 1:37 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>
> Underground condit gets filled with water from condensation anyway, so 
I'm sure he doesn't clean it out. I'm assuming he's using a dart and pushing it 
with water to pull cable in?
>
> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 12:34 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>> I don't understand how that works (with water). Seems like it would be a
>> pain to get it out? or do you just leave it in there?
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 11/8/2021 11:59 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> > Cheap is a selling point for me.  We have started to put stuff down
>> > conduit with water rather than air.  So far it is much better than air.
>> >
>> > -Original Message- From: Chris Fabien
>> > Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 10:33 AM
>> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >
>> > I would just use normal duct of whatever size is appropriate . That
>> > just doesn't look as sturdy as solid wall of plastic. Looks like being
>> > more flexible is the key selling point.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 7:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> No, not smurf tube.  It is corrugated micro duct.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> On Nov 4, 2021, at 4:02 PM, Josh Luthman
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> 
>> >> The cheap stuff from Home Depot?  That sounds like a nightmare.
>> >>
>> >> Josh Luthman
>> >> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> >> 1100 Wayne St
>> >> Suite 1337
>> >> Troy, OH 45373
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 4:08 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> There is HDPE versions that are designed for direct burial.
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Bill Prince
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 2:04 PM
>> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> That orange stuff? I would not think it is outdoor rated, nor would
>> >>> it hold up if buried.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> bp
>> >>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> On 11/4/2021 12:56 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Conduit.  Like 1/2” corrugated microduct.
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Bill Prince
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 1:41 PM
>> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> You talking about conduit or culvert?
>> >>>
>> >>> We replaced all of our old corrugated (galvanized)  culvert(s) with
>> >>> the plastic stuff that's corrugated on the outside and smooth wall
>> >>> on the inside. Way better stuff because it doesn't trap stuff.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> bp
>> >>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> On 11/4/2021 12:30 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Anyone have any opinions about using cheap corrugated conduit for
>> >>> areas where the ditch is already open?
>> >>> I have never used it.  I worry it is not terribly strong and you
>> >>> probably can’t blow it.
>> >>>
>> >>> 
>> >>> --
>> >>> AF mailing list
>> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >>>
>> >>> 
>> >>> --
>> >>> AF mailing list
>> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >>>

Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit

2021-11-09 Thread Chuck McCown via AF 
It is rated for 160 but stuff will always do twice what it is rated for.  
Normally the pressure sits about 50 PSI unless there is some kind of pinch.  

From: Carl Peterson 
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 11:04 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit

Can this duct hold 200 psi?   


On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:50 AM Chris Fabien  wrote:

  Chuck, Interesting idea. Does this scale up to long distances like
  blowing does? Water seems like it would have a lot more resistance in
  a mile of 1.25" pipe but perhaps with 200psi behind it that's no
  issue?

  On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 3:46 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
  >
  > Right, they are always full of water.
  > I made a proofing dart with a cup seal at the end.
  > 20 GPM 200 PSI moves it along at about 5 feet per second.  The pump was 
remarkably cheap to build.
  >
  > The cable or mule tape is buoyant so that reduces friction and the water 
does too.  I have read about this for years but never tried it.
  >
  > From: TJ Trout
  > Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 1:37 PM
  > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
  >
  > Underground condit gets filled with water from condensation anyway, so I'm 
sure he doesn't clean it out. I'm assuming he's using a dart and pushing it 
with water to pull cable in?
  >
  > On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 12:34 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
  >>
  >> I don't understand how that works (with water). Seems like it would be a
  >> pain to get it out? or do you just leave it in there?
  >>
  >>
  >> bp
  >> 
  >>
  >> On 11/8/2021 11:59 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
  >> > Cheap is a selling point for me.  We have started to put stuff down
  >> > conduit with water rather than air.  So far it is much better than air.
  >> >
  >> > -Original Message- From: Chris Fabien
  >> > Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 10:33 AM
  >> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  >> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
  >> >
  >> > I would just use normal duct of whatever size is appropriate . That
  >> > just doesn't look as sturdy as solid wall of plastic. Looks like being
  >> > more flexible is the key selling point.
  >> >
  >> > On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 7:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
  >> > wrote:
  >> >>
  >> >> No, not smurf tube.  It is corrugated micro duct.
  >> >>
  >> >> Sent from my iPhone
  >> >>
  >> >> On Nov 4, 2021, at 4:02 PM, Josh Luthman
  >> >>  wrote:
  >> >>
  >> >> 
  >> >> The cheap stuff from Home Depot?  That sounds like a nightmare.
  >> >>
  >> >> Josh Luthman
  >> >> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  >> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
  >> >> 1100 Wayne St
  >> >> Suite 1337
  >> >> Troy, OH 45373
  >> >>
  >> >>
  >> >> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 4:08 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
  >> >> wrote:
  >> >>>
  >> >>> There is HDPE versions that are designed for direct burial.
  >> >>>
  >> >>> From: Bill Prince
  >> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 2:04 PM
  >> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
  >> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
  >> >>>
  >> >>>
  >> >>> That orange stuff? I would not think it is outdoor rated, nor would
  >> >>> it hold up if buried.
  >> >>>
  >> >>>
  >> >>>
  >> >>> bp
  >> >>> 
  >> >>>
  >> >>> On 11/4/2021 12:56 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
  >> >>>
  >> >>> Conduit.  Like 1/2” corrugated microduct.
  >> >>>
  >> >>> From: Bill Prince
  >> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 1:41 PM
  >> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
  >> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
  >> >>>
  >> >>>
  >> >>> You talking about conduit or culvert?
  >> >>>
  >> >>> We replaced all of our old corrugated (galvanized)  culvert(s) with
  >> >>> the plastic stuff that's corrugated on the outside and smooth wall
  >> >>> on the inside. Way better stuff because it doesn't trap stuff.
  >> >>>
  >> >>>
  >> >>>
  >> >>> bp
  >> >>> 
  >> >>>
  >> >>> On 11/4/2021 12:30 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
  >> >>>
  >> >>> Anyone have any opinions about using cheap corrugated conduit for
  >> >>> areas where the ditch is already open?
  >> >>> I have never used it.  I worry it is not terribly strong and you
  >> >>> probably can’t blow it.
  >> >>>
  >> >>> 
  >> >>> --
  >> >>> AF mailing list
  >> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
  >> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  >> >>>
  >> >>> 
  >> >>> --
  >> >>> AF mailing list
  >> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
  >> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  >> >>>
  >> >>> --
  >> >>> AF mailing list
  >> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
  >> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  >> >>
  >> >> --
  >> >> AF mailing list
  >> >> AF@af.afmug.com
  >> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  >> >
  >>
  >> --
  >> AF mailing list
  >> AF@af.afmug.com
  >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  >
  > 
  > --
  > AF mailing list
  > AF@af.afmug.com
  >

Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit

2021-11-09 Thread Jan-GAMs 
Why would you want that much pressure when it's flow doing the work, not 
pressure.  You don't want to blow up the pipe do you?


On 11/9/21 10:04, Carl Peterson wrote:

Can this duct hold 200 psi?


On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:50 AM Chris Fabien  wrote:

Chuck, Interesting idea. Does this scale up to long distances like
blowing does? Water seems like it would have a lot more resistance in
a mile of 1.25" pipe but perhaps with 200psi behind it that's no
issue?

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 3:46 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:
>
> Right, they are always full of water.
> I made a proofing dart with a cup seal at the end.
> 20 GPM 200 PSI moves it along at about 5 feet per second.  The
pump was remarkably cheap to build.
>
> The cable or mule tape is buoyant so that reduces friction and
the water does too.  I have read about this for years but never
tried it.
>
> From: TJ Trout
> Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 1:37 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>
> Underground condit gets filled with water from condensation
anyway, so I'm sure he doesn't clean it out. I'm assuming he's
using a dart and pushing it with water to pull cable in?
>
> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 12:34 PM Bill Prince
 wrote:
>>
>> I don't understand how that works (with water). Seems like it
would be a
>> pain to get it out? or do you just leave it in there?
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 11/8/2021 11:59 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> > Cheap is a selling point for me.  We have started to put
stuff down
>> > conduit with water rather than air.  So far it is much better
than air.
>> >
>> > -Original Message- From: Chris Fabien
>> > Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 10:33 AM
>> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >
>> > I would just use normal duct of whatever size is appropriate
. That
>> > just doesn't look as sturdy as solid wall of plastic. Looks
like being
>> > more flexible is the key selling point.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 7:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF

>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> No, not smurf tube.  It is corrugated micro duct.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> On Nov 4, 2021, at 4:02 PM, Josh Luthman
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> 
>> >> The cheap stuff from Home Depot?  That sounds like a nightmare.
>> >>
>> >> Josh Luthman
>> >> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> >> 1100 Wayne St
>> >> Suite 1337
>> >> Troy, OH 45373
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 4:08 PM Chuck McCown via AF

>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> There is HDPE versions that are designed for direct burial.
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Bill Prince
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 2:04 PM
>> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> That orange stuff? I would not think it is outdoor rated,
nor would
>> >>> it hold up if buried.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> bp
>> >>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> On 11/4/2021 12:56 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Conduit.  Like 1/2” corrugated microduct.
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Bill Prince
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 1:41 PM
>> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> You talking about conduit or culvert?
>> >>>
>> >>> We replaced all of our old corrugated (galvanized) 
culvert(s) with
>> >>> the plastic stuff that's corrugated on the outside and
smooth wall
>> >>> on the inside. Way better stuff because it doesn't trap stuff.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> bp
>> >>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> On 11/4/2021 12:30 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Anyone have any opinions about using cheap corrugated
conduit for
>> >>> areas where the ditch is already open?
>> >>> I have never used it.  I worry it is not terribly strong
and you
>> >>> probably can’t blow it.
>> >>>
>> >>> 
>> >>> --
>> >>> AF mailing list
>> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >>>
>> >>> 
>> >>> --
>> >>> AF mailing list
>> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> AF mailing list
>> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> AF mailing list
>> >> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >
>>
>> --

Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit

2021-11-09 Thread Carl Peterson 
Can this duct hold 200 psi?


On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:50 AM Chris Fabien  wrote:

> Chuck, Interesting idea. Does this scale up to long distances like
> blowing does? Water seems like it would have a lot more resistance in
> a mile of 1.25" pipe but perhaps with 200psi behind it that's no
> issue?
>
> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 3:46 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
> >
> > Right, they are always full of water.
> > I made a proofing dart with a cup seal at the end.
> > 20 GPM 200 PSI moves it along at about 5 feet per second.  The pump was
> remarkably cheap to build.
> >
> > The cable or mule tape is buoyant so that reduces friction and the water
> does too.  I have read about this for years but never tried it.
> >
> > From: TJ Trout
> > Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 1:37 PM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
> >
> > Underground condit gets filled with water from condensation anyway, so
> I'm sure he doesn't clean it out. I'm assuming he's using a dart and
> pushing it with water to pull cable in?
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 12:34 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't understand how that works (with water). Seems like it would be a
> >> pain to get it out? or do you just leave it in there?
> >>
> >>
> >> bp
> >> 
> >>
> >> On 11/8/2021 11:59 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >> > Cheap is a selling point for me.  We have started to put stuff down
> >> > conduit with water rather than air.  So far it is much better than
> air.
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message- From: Chris Fabien
> >> > Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 10:33 AM
> >> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
> >> >
> >> > I would just use normal duct of whatever size is appropriate . That
> >> > just doesn't look as sturdy as solid wall of plastic. Looks like being
> >> > more flexible is the key selling point.
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 7:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> No, not smurf tube.  It is corrugated micro duct.
> >> >>
> >> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> >>
> >> >> On Nov 4, 2021, at 4:02 PM, Josh Luthman
> >> >>  wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> 
> >> >> The cheap stuff from Home Depot?  That sounds like a nightmare.
> >> >>
> >> >> Josh Luthman
> >> >> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> >> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
> >> >> 1100 Wayne St
> >> >> Suite 1337
> >> >> Troy, OH 45373
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 4:08 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> There is HDPE versions that are designed for direct burial.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> From: Bill Prince
> >> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 2:04 PM
> >> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
> >> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> That orange stuff? I would not think it is outdoor rated, nor would
> >> >>> it hold up if buried.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> bp
> >> >>> 
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 11/4/2021 12:56 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Conduit.  Like 1/2” corrugated microduct.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> From: Bill Prince
> >> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 1:41 PM
> >> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
> >> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> You talking about conduit or culvert?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> We replaced all of our old corrugated (galvanized)  culvert(s) with
> >> >>> the plastic stuff that's corrugated on the outside and smooth wall
> >> >>> on the inside. Way better stuff because it doesn't trap stuff.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> bp
> >> >>> 
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 11/4/2021 12:30 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Anyone have any opinions about using cheap corrugated conduit for
> >> >>> areas where the ditch is already open?
> >> >>> I have never used it.  I worry it is not terribly strong and you
> >> >>> probably can’t blow it.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> AF mailing list
> >> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >> >>>
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> AF mailing list
> >> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> AF mailing list
> >> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> AF mailing list
> >> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> > 
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E

Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit

2021-11-09 Thread Chuck McCown via AF 
Positive displacement pumps don't care.  A gallon goes in and pushes it a fixed 
distance.  Non compressible water is magic. 
We have done 3000' so far.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt4aEn8cliQ_channel=GMPlastA%2FS


One site says:
Advantages of blowing compared to pulling:

  a.. Longer installation distances can be reached 
  b.. Installation distance less dependent on bends and undulations in duct 
  c.. Forces exerted on the cable are lower 
  d.. Easier use blowing in tandem operation 
  e.. The step of installing a winch rope is avoided 
  f.. Equipment is needed only at one end of the duct route
And you can use your same blowing machine, just don’t need compressors.
Compressors are a pain, you need 400 CFM, they get hot, they break down and 
they can get the air hot enough to make the duct soft in the summertime.  

-Original Message- 
From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 6:48 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit 

Chuck, Interesting idea. Does this scale up to long distances like
blowing does? Water seems like it would have a lot more resistance in
a mile of 1.25" pipe but perhaps with 200psi behind it that's no
issue?

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 3:46 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> Right, they are always full of water.
> I made a proofing dart with a cup seal at the end.
> 20 GPM 200 PSI moves it along at about 5 feet per second.  The pump was 
> remarkably cheap to build.
>
> The cable or mule tape is buoyant so that reduces friction and the water does 
> too.  I have read about this for years but never tried it.
>
> From: TJ Trout
> Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 1:37 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>
> Underground condit gets filled with water from condensation anyway, so I'm 
> sure he doesn't clean it out. I'm assuming he's using a dart and pushing it 
> with water to pull cable in?
>
> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 12:34 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>> I don't understand how that works (with water). Seems like it would be a
>> pain to get it out? or do you just leave it in there?
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 11/8/2021 11:59 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> > Cheap is a selling point for me.  We have started to put stuff down
>> > conduit with water rather than air.  So far it is much better than air.
>> >
>> > -Original Message- From: Chris Fabien
>> > Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 10:33 AM
>> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >
>> > I would just use normal duct of whatever size is appropriate . That
>> > just doesn't look as sturdy as solid wall of plastic. Looks like being
>> > more flexible is the key selling point.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 7:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> No, not smurf tube.  It is corrugated micro duct.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> On Nov 4, 2021, at 4:02 PM, Josh Luthman
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> 
>> >> The cheap stuff from Home Depot?  That sounds like a nightmare.
>> >>
>> >> Josh Luthman
>> >> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> >> 1100 Wayne St
>> >> Suite 1337
>> >> Troy, OH 45373
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 4:08 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> There is HDPE versions that are designed for direct burial.
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Bill Prince
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 2:04 PM
>> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> That orange stuff? I would not think it is outdoor rated, nor would
>> >>> it hold up if buried.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> bp
>> >>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> On 11/4/2021 12:56 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Conduit.  Like 1/2” corrugated microduct.
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Bill Prince
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 1:41 PM
>> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> You talking about conduit or culvert?
>> >>>
>> >>> We replaced all of our old corrugated (galvanized)  culvert(s) with
>> >>> the plastic stuff that's corrugated on the outside and smooth wall
>> >>> on the inside. Way better stuff because it doesn't trap stuff.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> bp
>> >>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> On 11/4/2021 12:30 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Anyone have any opinions about using cheap corrugated conduit for
>> >>> areas where the ditch is already open?
>> >>> I have never used it.  I worry it is not terribly strong and you
>> >>> probably can’t blow it.
>> >>>
>> >>> 
>> >>> --
>> >>> AF mailing list
>> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >>>
>> >>> 
>> >>> --
>> >>> AF mailing list
>> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> AF mailing list
>> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >>>

Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit

2021-11-09 Thread Chris Fabien 
Chuck, Interesting idea. Does this scale up to long distances like
blowing does? Water seems like it would have a lot more resistance in
a mile of 1.25" pipe but perhaps with 200psi behind it that's no
issue?

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 3:46 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> Right, they are always full of water.
> I made a proofing dart with a cup seal at the end.
> 20 GPM 200 PSI moves it along at about 5 feet per second.  The pump was 
> remarkably cheap to build.
>
> The cable or mule tape is buoyant so that reduces friction and the water does 
> too.  I have read about this for years but never tried it.
>
> From: TJ Trout
> Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 1:37 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>
> Underground condit gets filled with water from condensation anyway, so I'm 
> sure he doesn't clean it out. I'm assuming he's using a dart and pushing it 
> with water to pull cable in?
>
> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 12:34 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>> I don't understand how that works (with water). Seems like it would be a
>> pain to get it out? or do you just leave it in there?
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 11/8/2021 11:59 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> > Cheap is a selling point for me.  We have started to put stuff down
>> > conduit with water rather than air.  So far it is much better than air.
>> >
>> > -Original Message- From: Chris Fabien
>> > Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 10:33 AM
>> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >
>> > I would just use normal duct of whatever size is appropriate . That
>> > just doesn't look as sturdy as solid wall of plastic. Looks like being
>> > more flexible is the key selling point.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 7:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> No, not smurf tube.  It is corrugated micro duct.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> On Nov 4, 2021, at 4:02 PM, Josh Luthman
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> 
>> >> The cheap stuff from Home Depot?  That sounds like a nightmare.
>> >>
>> >> Josh Luthman
>> >> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> >> 1100 Wayne St
>> >> Suite 1337
>> >> Troy, OH 45373
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 4:08 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> There is HDPE versions that are designed for direct burial.
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Bill Prince
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 2:04 PM
>> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> That orange stuff? I would not think it is outdoor rated, nor would
>> >>> it hold up if buried.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> bp
>> >>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> On 11/4/2021 12:56 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Conduit.  Like 1/2” corrugated microduct.
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Bill Prince
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 1:41 PM
>> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] corrugated conduit
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> You talking about conduit or culvert?
>> >>>
>> >>> We replaced all of our old corrugated (galvanized)  culvert(s) with
>> >>> the plastic stuff that's corrugated on the outside and smooth wall
>> >>> on the inside. Way better stuff because it doesn't trap stuff.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> bp
>> >>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> On 11/4/2021 12:30 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Anyone have any opinions about using cheap corrugated conduit for
>> >>> areas where the ditch is already open?
>> >>> I have never used it.  I worry it is not terribly strong and you
>> >>> probably can’t blow it.
>> >>>
>> >>> 
>> >>> --
>> >>> AF mailing list
>> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >>>
>> >>> 
>> >>> --
>> >>> AF mailing list
>> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> AF mailing list
>> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> AF mailing list
>> >> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> 
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com