Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries
I have been looking into how to set up the MorningStar Mppt-60 for
LiFePo2 batteries now that a 12v 200AH is $1000 and makes the price very
equal to doing 6V golf cart batteries from Interstate. Reading about
them says that they want constant current at 40 amps to 80% charge (
some say 60% ) and then the last 20% at constant voltage until full.
But that like most Li batteries it's better to not charge above 80% ( is
that the same loss of capacity as not discharging below 20%? for 100%
)... So for the morningstar they have you use the High voltage
disconnect to stop charging at a certain voltage and leave it at that.
No Float, No Equal, No Absorb...
On 10/29/20 8:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
I don't really know Adam. I know that multi-cell LiFePo batteries need
(and usually include) a BMU to manage the states/flow between cells,
and I know that LiFePo batteries don't want (or need) a bulk or
equalization. Beyond that, I think they just need a different charger,
but I don't know how sophisticated it needs to be.
bp
On 10/28/2020 3:12 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:
Hi Bill
I thought with the drop in replacements the BMU handled the charging?
*From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 28, 2020 12:37 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries
LiFePo (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is considered very safe. Completely
different charge profile vs lead acid though.
bp
On 10/28/2020 12:32 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
my biggest concern with lithium is im a dolt and dont know for
sure which variants arent prone to explode
On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 2:11 PM TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote:
https://batteryhookup.com/
On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 10:11 AM Harold Bledsoe
mailto:hrbled...@outlook.com>> wrote:
I’ve used the Merit Sun batteries for other
applications. They work well and have a BMS. That said,
they cannot be used with a lead-acid charging profile.
Another option would be to disable the charger on the UPS
(if possible?) and use a separate LiFePO4 charger for the
batteries. That will give you more options.
*From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>
*Date: *Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 11:44 AM
*To: *'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries
Is anyone using Lithium replacements for lead acid it
there UPS setups. Our standard setup is 4 12v 100 amp
hour external batteries on APC or Alpha UPSs. I read
that some of the LiFePO4 12v Lithium batteries are drop
in replacements for lead acid. Are all with built in
BMUs considered drop in?
Any one doing this? What make and model have you used.
Price? Also interested to hear if anyone has purchased
though Alibaba? Prices look good, but are they too good
to be true?
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AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries
Yeah the BMUs in the merit sun ones are handling equalization of the cells inside and enforcing limit on over-current etc. It also determines how many series/parallel ones you can have too. The chargers are pretty basic – they are just a single-stage power supply with a fixed current. They do typically shut off after the batteries are charged. The problem with a lead acid charger is that they are doing constant current until a certain voltage is hit and then switches to constant voltage for how long it took to finish the first stage and then switch to float. The BMU would have to do a bit of trickery to make that work and pretend to be a lead acid battery. For reference, the charger for the 48V LiFePO4 system is a single stage, 57.6V/20A power supply. From: AF Date: Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 10:18 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries I don't really know Adam. I know that multi-cell LiFePo batteries need (and usually include) a BMU to manage the states/flow between cells, and I know that LiFePo batteries don't want (or need) a bulk or equalization. Beyond that, I think they just need a different charger, but I don't know how sophisticated it needs to be. bp On 10/28/2020 3:12 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote: Hi Bill I thought with the drop in replacements the BMU handled the charging? From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 12:37 PM To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries LiFePo (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is considered very safe. Completely different charge profile vs lead acid though. bp On 10/28/2020 12:32 PM, Steve Jones wrote: my biggest concern with lithium is im a dolt and dont know for sure which variants arent prone to explode On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 2:11 PM TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote: https://batteryhookup.com/<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbatteryhookup.com%2F=04%7C01%7C%7C2a594395149c49c6172e08d87c1ddaf0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637395814946292325%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=5jvqBPBDQDH%2FVIputDcthcpkZwjxjD2hE81zdaouM9w%3D=0> On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 10:11 AM Harold Bledsoe mailto:hrbled...@outlook.com>> wrote: I’ve used the Merit Sun batteries for other applications. They work well and have a BMS. That said, they cannot be used with a lead-acid charging profile. Another option would be to disable the charger on the UPS (if possible?) and use a separate LiFePO4 charger for the batteries. That will give you more options. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 11:44 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> Subject: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries Is anyone using Lithium replacements for lead acid it there UPS setups. Our standard setup is 4 12v 100 amp hour external batteries on APC or Alpha UPSs. I read that some of the LiFePO4 12v Lithium batteries are drop in replacements for lead acid. Are all with built in BMUs considered drop in? Any one doing this? What make and model have you used. Price? Also interested to hear if anyone has purchased though Alibaba? Prices look good, but are they too good to be true? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.com=04%7C01%7C%7C2a594395149c49c6172e08d87c1ddaf0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637395814946302321%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=KYc7%2FBIDO%2BvA2QW5MqZgYIdE3NkJGEJfQcb7wszRn1Q%3D=0> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.com=04%7C01%7C%7C2a594395149c49c6172e08d87c1ddaf0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637395814946302321%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=KYc7%2FBIDO%2BvA2QW5MqZgYIdE3NkJGEJfQcb7wszRn1Q%3D=0> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries
I don't really know Adam. I know that multi-cell LiFePo batteries
need (and usually include) a BMU to manage the states/flow between
cells, and I know that LiFePo batteries don't want (or need) a
bulk or equalization. Beyond that, I think they just need a
different charger, but I don't know how sophisticated it needs to
be.
bp
On 10/28/2020 3:12 PM, SmarterBroadband
wrote:
Hi Bill
I thought with the drop in replacements the
BMU handled the charging?
From: AF
[mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Prince
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 12:37 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement
batteries
LiFePo (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is considered very safe.
Completely different charge profile vs lead acid though.
bp
On 10/28/2020 12:32 PM, Steve Jones
wrote:
my biggest concern with lithium is im
a dolt and dont know for sure which variants arent prone
to explode
On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 2:11 PM TJ
Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote:
https://batteryhookup.com/
On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 10:11 AM
Harold Bledsoe <hrbled...@outlook.com>
wrote:
I’ve
used the Merit Sun batteries for other
applications. They work well and have a BMS.
That said, they cannot be used with a lead-acid
charging profile. Another option would be to
disable the charger on the UPS (if possible?)
and use a separate LiFePO4 charger for the
batteries. That will give you more options.
From:
AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at
11:44 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group' <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid
replacement batteries
Is
anyone using Lithium replacements for lead acid
it there UPS setups. Our standard setup is 4
12v 100 amp hour external batteries on APC or
Alpha UPSs. I read that some of the LiFePO4
12v Lithium batteries are drop in replacements
for lead acid. Are all with built in BMUs
considered drop in?
Any
one doing this? What make and model have you
used. Price? Also interested to hear if anyone
has purchased though Alibaba? Prices look
good, but are they too good to be true?
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries
Hi Bill I thought with the drop in replacements the BMU handled the charging? From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 12:37 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries LiFePo (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is considered very safe. Completely different charge profile vs lead acid though. bp On 10/28/2020 12:32 PM, Steve Jones wrote: my biggest concern with lithium is im a dolt and dont know for sure which variants arent prone to explode On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 2:11 PM TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com> > wrote: https://batteryhookup.com/ On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 10:11 AM Harold Bledsoe mailto:hrbled...@outlook.com> > wrote: I’ve used the Merit Sun batteries for other applications. They work well and have a BMS. That said, they cannot be used with a lead-acid charging profile. Another option would be to disable the charger on the UPS (if possible?) and use a separate LiFePO4 charger for the batteries. That will give you more options. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 11:44 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries Is anyone using Lithium replacements for lead acid it there UPS setups. Our standard setup is 4 12v 100 amp hour external batteries on APC or Alpha UPSs. I read that some of the LiFePO4 12v Lithium batteries are drop in replacements for lead acid. Are all with built in BMUs considered drop in? Any one doing this? What make and model have you used. Price? Also interested to hear if anyone has purchased though Alibaba? Prices look good, but are they too good to be true? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries
LiFePo (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is considered very safe.
Completely different charge profile vs lead acid though.
bp
On 10/28/2020 12:32 PM, Steve Jones
wrote:
my biggest concern with lithium is im a dolt and
dont know for sure which variants arent prone to explode
On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 2:11
PM TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote:
https://batteryhookup.com/
On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at
10:11 AM Harold Bledsoe <hrbled...@outlook.com>
wrote:
I’ve used the Merit Sun batteries
for other applications. They work well and have a
BMS. That said, they cannot be used with a
lead-acid charging profile. Another option would be
to disable the charger on the UPS (if possible?) and
use a separate LiFePO4 charger for the batteries.
That will give you more options.
From:
AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at
11:44 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
<af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid
replacement batteries
Is anyone using Lithium
replacements for lead acid it there UPS setups.
Our standard setup is 4 12v 100 amp hour external
batteries on APC or Alpha UPSs. I read that some
of the LiFePO4 12v Lithium batteries are drop in
replacements for lead acid. Are all with built in
BMUs considered drop in?
Any one doing this? What make
and model have you used. Price? Also interested to
hear if anyone has purchased though Alibaba?
Prices look good, but are they too good to be true?
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries
my biggest concern with lithium is im a dolt and dont know for sure which variants arent prone to explode On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 2:11 PM TJ Trout wrote: > https://batteryhookup.com/ > > On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 10:11 AM Harold Bledsoe > wrote: > >> I’ve used the Merit Sun batteries for other applications. They work well >> and have a BMS. That said, they cannot be used with a lead-acid charging >> profile. Another option would be to disable the charger on the UPS (if >> possible?) and use a separate LiFePO4 charger for the batteries. That will >> give you more options. >> >> >> >> *From: *AF >> *Date: *Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 11:44 AM >> *To: *'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' >> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries >> >> Is anyone using Lithium replacements for lead acid it there UPS setups. >> Our standard setup is 4 12v 100 amp hour external batteries on APC or Alpha >> UPSs. I read that some of the LiFePO4 12v Lithium batteries are drop in >> replacements for lead acid. Are all with built in BMUs considered drop in? >> >> >> >> Any one doing this? What make and model have you used. Price? Also >> interested to hear if anyone has purchased though Alibaba? Prices look >> good, but are they too good to be true? >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries
https://batteryhookup.com/ On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 10:11 AM Harold Bledsoe wrote: > I’ve used the Merit Sun batteries for other applications. They work well > and have a BMS. That said, they cannot be used with a lead-acid charging > profile. Another option would be to disable the charger on the UPS (if > possible?) and use a separate LiFePO4 charger for the batteries. That will > give you more options. > > > > *From: *AF > *Date: *Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 11:44 AM > *To: *'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' > *Subject: *[AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries > > Is anyone using Lithium replacements for lead acid it there UPS setups. > Our standard setup is 4 12v 100 amp hour external batteries on APC or Alpha > UPSs. I read that some of the LiFePO4 12v Lithium batteries are drop in > replacements for lead acid. Are all with built in BMUs considered drop in? > > > > Any one doing this? What make and model have you used. Price? Also > interested to hear if anyone has purchased though Alibaba? Prices look > good, but are they too good to be true? > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries
I’ve used the Merit Sun batteries for other applications. They work well and have a BMS. That said, they cannot be used with a lead-acid charging profile. Another option would be to disable the charger on the UPS (if possible?) and use a separate LiFePO4 charger for the batteries. That will give you more options. From: AF Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 11:44 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries Is anyone using Lithium replacements for lead acid it there UPS setups. Our standard setup is 4 12v 100 amp hour external batteries on APC or Alpha UPSs. I read that some of the LiFePO4 12v Lithium batteries are drop in replacements for lead acid. Are all with built in BMUs considered drop in? Any one doing this? What make and model have you used. Price? Also interested to hear if anyone has purchased though Alibaba? Prices look good, but are they too good to be true? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries
Is anyone using Lithium replacements for lead acid it there UPS setups. Our standard setup is 4 12v 100 amp hour external batteries on APC or Alpha UPSs. I read that some of the LiFePO4 12v Lithium batteries are drop in replacements for lead acid. Are all with built in BMUs considered drop in? Any one doing this? What make and model have you used. Price? Also interested to hear if anyone has purchased though Alibaba? Prices look good, but are they too good to be true? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
