Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-11 Thread chuck 

The jawbone of an ass can be pretty lethal.

But so can a properly planted fist to side of your jaw.

-Original Message- 
From: Robert Andrews

Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2018 11:43 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

Trees,  Ban Trees,  They are the root of all evil...

On 08/11/2018 09:51 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
There is a guy with a you tube channel that does crazy stuff like wooden 
cylinder heads on lawn mower engines.

He should make an all wooden gun.
Use just the normal tools found in a high school wood shop.
Publish those plans.
(If you used ironwood for the barrel it might work.  )
Then, what are they going to ban?  High school wood shops?
Purchase of wood.
All plans for things made of wood.
*From:* can...@believewireless.net
*Sent:* Saturday, August 11, 2018 10:36 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
The printers aren't the problem, it's the CAD software. Ban that. Wait... 
but without computers,

CAD software can't run. Ban computers! We'll fix this mess right up.
On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:25 PM,  wrote:

ban 3d printers
they make defective guns
*From:* justsumname
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 10:31 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
yep be careful:

https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/08/10/watch-man-tests-democrats-claims-pulls-trigger-on-all-plastic-gun-it-blows-up/

<https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/08/10/watch-man-tests-democrats-claims-pulls-trigger-on-all-plastic-gun-it-blows-up/>
On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 11:05 AM,  wrote:

No, we restrict SMTP transmission to only stateside IPs
*From:* can...@believewireless.net
*Sent:* Thursday, August 2, 2018 8:58 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
Chuck, I hope this list isn't international... expect a knock on
your door from the FBI from what you just published.
On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 10:29 AM,  wrote:

But you don’t need a 3D printer.
When I was a kid:  I put a shotgun shell in a vise, held a
nail with pliers and used the nail and a ball peen hammer to
set it off.
I put shotgun shells in pipes and did similar things.
As young as 5 years old I crammed a 22 cal cartridge into
the holes in a chunk of lava rock and hammered it with
another rock until it went off.
As previously mentioned here, zip guns have been made for
decades.  I recently crammed a 22 cal into a soda straw and
threw it up in the air to come down on concrete.  It did not
go off as promised.
Tape a ball bearing or marble on the bottom of a shotgun
shell and do the same thing.
Lots of fun to be had without a 3D printer.
*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:53 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
My biggest real concern about this is idiots, particularly
young idiots, like most of us on this list probably were.
Printing up the gun on a cheap printer and blowing their
hands off because they don't understand the plastic quality
matters. Granted, dumb kids like us blew things up with
other stuff and manages to keep most of our fingers and a
percentage of our hearing. Maybe I'm just getting old and
worry about the consequences of dumb kids.
And what happens to some kid who loads the file into one of
the school printers, his life is effectively over for being
a dumb kid.
I find the hype humorous since you could download anarchist
cookbook from almost day one of the public interwebs. Meth
recipes and instruction, ricin production from castor beans,
this krocodile fake heroin, napalm recipes, etc.
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 8:57 PM Seth Mattinen
 wrote:

On 8/1/18 6:48 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
 > Yep. There is a reason guns essential parts are made
of metal instead of
 > plastic. They will still shoot metal bullets.


Print some plastic ones. Problem solved.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-11 Thread Robert Andrews 

Trees,  Ban Trees,  They are the root of all evil...

On 08/11/2018 09:51 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
There is a guy with a you tube channel that does crazy stuff like wooden 
cylinder heads on lawn mower engines.

He should make an all wooden gun.
Use just the normal tools found in a high school wood shop.
Publish those plans.
(If you used ironwood for the barrel it might work.  )
Then, what are they going to ban?  High school wood shops?
Purchase of wood.
All plans for things made of wood.
*From:* can...@believewireless.net
*Sent:* Saturday, August 11, 2018 10:36 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
The printers aren't the problem, it's the CAD software. Ban that. 
Wait... but without computers,

CAD software can't run. Ban computers! We'll fix this mess right up.
On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:25 PM,  wrote:

ban 3d printers
they make defective guns
*From:* justsumname
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 10:31 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
yep be careful:

https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/08/10/watch-man-tests-democrats-claims-pulls-trigger-on-all-plastic-gun-it-blows-up/

<https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/08/10/watch-man-tests-democrats-claims-pulls-trigger-on-all-plastic-gun-it-blows-up/>
On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 11:05 AM,  wrote:

No, we restrict SMTP transmission to only stateside IPs
*From:* can...@believewireless.net
*Sent:* Thursday, August 2, 2018 8:58 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
Chuck, I hope this list isn't international... expect a knock on
your door from the FBI from what you just published.
On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 10:29 AM,  wrote:

But you don’t need a 3D printer.
When I was a kid:  I put a shotgun shell in a vise, held a
nail with pliers and used the nail and a ball peen hammer to
set it off.
I put shotgun shells in pipes and did similar things.
As young as 5 years old I crammed a 22 cal cartridge into
the holes in a chunk of lava rock and hammered it with
another rock until it went off.
As previously mentioned here, zip guns have been made for
decades.  I recently crammed a 22 cal into a soda straw and
threw it up in the air to come down on concrete.  It did not
go off as promised.
Tape a ball bearing or marble on the bottom of a shotgun
shell and do the same thing.
Lots of fun to be had without a 3D printer.
*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:53 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
My biggest real concern about this is idiots, particularly
young idiots, like most of us on this list probably were.
Printing up the gun on a cheap printer and blowing their
hands off because they don't understand the plastic quality
matters. Granted, dumb kids like us blew things up with
other stuff and manages to keep most of our fingers and a
percentage of our hearing. Maybe I'm just getting old and
worry about the consequences of dumb kids.
And what happens to some kid who loads the file into one of
the school printers, his life is effectively over for being
a dumb kid.
I find the hype humorous since you could download anarchist
cookbook from almost day one of the public interwebs. Meth
recipes and instruction, ricin production from castor beans,
this krocodile fake heroin, napalm recipes, etc.
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 8:57 PM Seth Mattinen
 wrote:

On 8/1/18 6:48 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
 > Yep. There is a reason guns essential parts are made
of metal instead of
 > plastic. They will still shoot metal bullets.


Print some plastic ones. Problem solved.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-11 Thread chuck 
There is a guy with a you tube channel that does crazy stuff like wooden 
cylinder heads on lawn mower engines.
He should make an all wooden gun.  

Use just the normal tools found in a high school wood shop.  
Publish those plans.

(If you used ironwood for the barrel it might work.  )

Then, what are they going to ban?  High school wood shops?
Purchase of wood.
All plans for things made of wood.  

From: can...@believewireless.net 
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2018 10:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

The printers aren't the problem, it's the CAD software. Ban that. Wait... but 
without computers,
CAD software can't run. Ban computers! We'll fix this mess right up.

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:25 PM,  wrote:

  ban 3d printers
  they make defective guns

  From: justsumname 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:31 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

  yep be careful: 

  
https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/08/10/watch-man-tests-democrats-claims-pulls-trigger-on-all-plastic-gun-it-blows-up/



  On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 11:05 AM,  wrote:

No, we restrict SMTP transmission to only stateside IPs

From: can...@believewireless.net 
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2018 8:58 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

Chuck, I hope this list isn't international... expect a knock on your door 
from the FBI from what you just published.

On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 10:29 AM,  wrote:

  But you don’t need a 3D printer.

  When I was a kid:  I put a shotgun shell in a vise, held a nail with 
pliers and used the nail and a ball peen hammer to set it off.

  I put shotgun shells in pipes and did similar things.

  As young as 5 years old I crammed a 22 cal cartridge into the holes in a 
chunk of lava rock and hammered it with another rock until it went off.  

  As previously mentioned here, zip guns have been made for decades.  I 
recently crammed a 22 cal into a soda straw and threw it up in the air to come 
down on concrete.  It did not go off as promised.  

  Tape a ball bearing or marble on the bottom of a shotgun shell and do the 
same thing.  
  Lots of fun to be had without a 3D printer.  

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:53 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

  My biggest real concern about this is idiots, particularly young idiots, 
like most of us on this list probably were. Printing up the gun on a cheap 
printer and blowing their hands off because they don't understand the plastic 
quality matters. Granted, dumb kids like us blew things up with other stuff and 
manages to keep most of our fingers and a percentage of our hearing. Maybe I'm 
just getting old and worry about the consequences of dumb kids. 

  And what happens to some kid who loads the file into one of the school 
printers, his life is effectively over for being a dumb kid.

  I find the hype humorous since you could download anarchist cookbook from 
almost day one of the public interwebs. Meth recipes and instruction, ricin 
production from castor beans, this krocodile fake heroin, napalm recipes, etc. 

  On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 8:57 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

On 8/1/18 6:48 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
> Yep. There is a reason guns essential parts are made of metal instead 
of 
> plastic. They will still shoot metal bullets.


Print some plastic ones. Problem solved.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-11 Thread Mathew Howard 
Get rid of electricity, and none of it's a problem!

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 11:37 AM can...@believewireless.net <
p...@believewireless.net> wrote:

> The printers aren't the problem, it's the CAD software. Ban that. Wait...
> but without computers,
> CAD software can't run. Ban computers! We'll fix this mess right up.
>
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:25 PM,  wrote:
>
>> ban 3d printers
>> they make defective guns
>>
>> *From:* justsumname
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 10:31 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
>>
>> yep be careful:
>>
>>
>> https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/08/10/watch-man-tests-democrats-claims-pulls-trigger-on-all-plastic-gun-it-blows-up/
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 11:05 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> No, we restrict SMTP transmission to only stateside IPs
>>>
>>> *From:* can...@believewireless.net
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 2, 2018 8:58 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
>>>
>>> Chuck, I hope this list isn't international... expect a knock on your
>>> door from the FBI from what you just published.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 10:29 AM,  wrote:
>>>
>>>> But you don’t need a 3D printer.
>>>>
>>>> When I was a kid:  I put a shotgun shell in a vise, held a nail with
>>>> pliers and used the nail and a ball peen hammer to set it off.
>>>>
>>>> I put shotgun shells in pipes and did similar things.
>>>>
>>>> As young as 5 years old I crammed a 22 cal cartridge into the holes in
>>>> a chunk of lava rock and hammered it with another rock until it went off.
>>>>
>>>> As previously mentioned here, zip guns have been made for decades.  I
>>>> recently crammed a 22 cal into a soda straw and threw it up in the air to
>>>> come down on concrete.  It did not go off as promised.
>>>>
>>>> Tape a ball bearing or marble on the bottom of a shotgun shell and do
>>>> the same thing.
>>>> Lots of fun to be had without a 3D printer.
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:53 PM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
>>>>
>>>> My biggest real concern about this is idiots, particularly young
>>>> idiots, like most of us on this list probably were. Printing up the gun on
>>>> a cheap printer and blowing their hands off because they don't understand
>>>> the plastic quality matters. Granted, dumb kids like us blew things up with
>>>> other stuff and manages to keep most of our fingers and a percentage of our
>>>> hearing. Maybe I'm just getting old and worry about the consequences of
>>>> dumb kids.
>>>>
>>>> And what happens to some kid who loads the file into one of the school
>>>> printers, his life is effectively over for being a dumb kid.
>>>>
>>>> I find the hype humorous since you could download anarchist cookbook
>>>> from almost day one of the public interwebs. Meth recipes and instruction,
>>>> ricin production from castor beans, this krocodile fake heroin, napalm
>>>> recipes, etc.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 8:57 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/1/18 6:48 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>>>>> > Yep. There is a reason guns essential parts are made of metal
>>>>> instead of
>>>>> > plastic. They will still shoot metal bullets.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Print some plastic ones. Problem solved.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --
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>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> --
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-11 Thread can...@believewireless.net 
The printers aren't the problem, it's the CAD software. Ban that. Wait...
but without computers,
CAD software can't run. Ban computers! We'll fix this mess right up.

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:25 PM,  wrote:

> ban 3d printers
> they make defective guns
>
> *From:* justsumname
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 10:31 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
>
> yep be careful:
>
> https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/08/10/watch-
> man-tests-democrats-claims-pulls-trigger-on-all-plastic-gun-it-blows-up/
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 11:05 AM,  wrote:
>
>> No, we restrict SMTP transmission to only stateside IPs
>>
>> *From:* can...@believewireless.net
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 2, 2018 8:58 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
>>
>> Chuck, I hope this list isn't international... expect a knock on your
>> door from the FBI from what you just published.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 10:29 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> But you don’t need a 3D printer.
>>>
>>> When I was a kid:  I put a shotgun shell in a vise, held a nail with
>>> pliers and used the nail and a ball peen hammer to set it off.
>>>
>>> I put shotgun shells in pipes and did similar things.
>>>
>>> As young as 5 years old I crammed a 22 cal cartridge into the holes in a
>>> chunk of lava rock and hammered it with another rock until it went off.
>>>
>>> As previously mentioned here, zip guns have been made for decades.  I
>>> recently crammed a 22 cal into a soda straw and threw it up in the air to
>>> come down on concrete.  It did not go off as promised.
>>>
>>> Tape a ball bearing or marble on the bottom of a shotgun shell and do
>>> the same thing.
>>> Lots of fun to be had without a 3D printer.
>>>
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:53 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
>>>
>>> My biggest real concern about this is idiots, particularly young idiots,
>>> like most of us on this list probably were. Printing up the gun on a cheap
>>> printer and blowing their hands off because they don't understand the
>>> plastic quality matters. Granted, dumb kids like us blew things up with
>>> other stuff and manages to keep most of our fingers and a percentage of our
>>> hearing. Maybe I'm just getting old and worry about the consequences of
>>> dumb kids.
>>>
>>> And what happens to some kid who loads the file into one of the school
>>> printers, his life is effectively over for being a dumb kid.
>>>
>>> I find the hype humorous since you could download anarchist cookbook
>>> from almost day one of the public interwebs. Meth recipes and instruction,
>>> ricin production from castor beans, this krocodile fake heroin, napalm
>>> recipes, etc.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 8:57 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/1/18 6:48 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>>>> > Yep. There is a reason guns essential parts are made of metal instead
>>>> of
>>>> > plastic. They will still shoot metal bullets.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Print some plastic ones. Problem solved.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
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>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-11 Thread chuck 
ban 3d printers
they make defective guns

From: justsumname 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:31 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

yep be careful: 

https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/08/10/watch-man-tests-democrats-claims-pulls-trigger-on-all-plastic-gun-it-blows-up/



On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 11:05 AM,  wrote:

  No, we restrict SMTP transmission to only stateside IPs

  From: can...@believewireless.net 
  Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2018 8:58 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

  Chuck, I hope this list isn't international... expect a knock on your door 
from the FBI from what you just published.

  On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 10:29 AM,  wrote:

But you don’t need a 3D printer.

When I was a kid:  I put a shotgun shell in a vise, held a nail with pliers 
and used the nail and a ball peen hammer to set it off.

I put shotgun shells in pipes and did similar things.

As young as 5 years old I crammed a 22 cal cartridge into the holes in a 
chunk of lava rock and hammered it with another rock until it went off.  

As previously mentioned here, zip guns have been made for decades.  I 
recently crammed a 22 cal into a soda straw and threw it up in the air to come 
down on concrete.  It did not go off as promised.  

Tape a ball bearing or marble on the bottom of a shotgun shell and do the 
same thing.  
Lots of fun to be had without a 3D printer.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

My biggest real concern about this is idiots, particularly young idiots, 
like most of us on this list probably were. Printing up the gun on a cheap 
printer and blowing their hands off because they don't understand the plastic 
quality matters. Granted, dumb kids like us blew things up with other stuff and 
manages to keep most of our fingers and a percentage of our hearing. Maybe I'm 
just getting old and worry about the consequences of dumb kids. 

And what happens to some kid who loads the file into one of the school 
printers, his life is effectively over for being a dumb kid.

I find the hype humorous since you could download anarchist cookbook from 
almost day one of the public interwebs. Meth recipes and instruction, ricin 
production from castor beans, this krocodile fake heroin, napalm recipes, etc. 

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 8:57 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

  On 8/1/18 6:48 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
  > Yep. There is a reason guns essential parts are made of metal instead 
of 
  > plastic. They will still shoot metal bullets.


  Print some plastic ones. Problem solved.

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  AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-10 Thread justsumname 
yep be careful:

https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/08/10/watch-man-tests-democrats-claims-pulls-trigger-on-all-plastic-gun-it-blows-up/


On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 11:05 AM,  wrote:

> No, we restrict SMTP transmission to only stateside IPs
>
> *From:* can...@believewireless.net
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 2, 2018 8:58 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
>
> Chuck, I hope this list isn't international... expect a knock on your door
> from the FBI from what you just published.
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 10:29 AM,  wrote:
>
>> But you don’t need a 3D printer.
>>
>> When I was a kid:  I put a shotgun shell in a vise, held a nail with
>> pliers and used the nail and a ball peen hammer to set it off.
>>
>> I put shotgun shells in pipes and did similar things.
>>
>> As young as 5 years old I crammed a 22 cal cartridge into the holes in a
>> chunk of lava rock and hammered it with another rock until it went off.
>>
>> As previously mentioned here, zip guns have been made for decades.  I
>> recently crammed a 22 cal into a soda straw and threw it up in the air to
>> come down on concrete.  It did not go off as promised.
>>
>> Tape a ball bearing or marble on the bottom of a shotgun shell and do the
>> same thing.
>> Lots of fun to be had without a 3D printer.
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:53 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
>>
>> My biggest real concern about this is idiots, particularly young idiots,
>> like most of us on this list probably were. Printing up the gun on a cheap
>> printer and blowing their hands off because they don't understand the
>> plastic quality matters. Granted, dumb kids like us blew things up with
>> other stuff and manages to keep most of our fingers and a percentage of our
>> hearing. Maybe I'm just getting old and worry about the consequences of
>> dumb kids.
>>
>> And what happens to some kid who loads the file into one of the school
>> printers, his life is effectively over for being a dumb kid.
>>
>> I find the hype humorous since you could download anarchist cookbook from
>> almost day one of the public interwebs. Meth recipes and instruction, ricin
>> production from castor beans, this krocodile fake heroin, napalm recipes,
>> etc.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 8:57 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/1/18 6:48 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>>> > Yep. There is a reason guns essential parts are made of metal instead
>>> of
>>> > plastic. They will still shoot metal bullets.
>>>
>>>
>>> Print some plastic ones. Problem solved.
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-02 Thread chuck 
No, we restrict SMTP transmission to only stateside IPs

From: can...@believewireless.net 
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2018 8:58 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

Chuck, I hope this list isn't international... expect a knock on your door from 
the FBI from what you just published.

On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 10:29 AM,  wrote:

  But you don’t need a 3D printer.

  When I was a kid:  I put a shotgun shell in a vise, held a nail with pliers 
and used the nail and a ball peen hammer to set it off.

  I put shotgun shells in pipes and did similar things.

  As young as 5 years old I crammed a 22 cal cartridge into the holes in a 
chunk of lava rock and hammered it with another rock until it went off.  

  As previously mentioned here, zip guns have been made for decades.  I 
recently crammed a 22 cal into a soda straw and threw it up in the air to come 
down on concrete.  It did not go off as promised.  

  Tape a ball bearing or marble on the bottom of a shotgun shell and do the 
same thing.  
  Lots of fun to be had without a 3D printer.  

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:53 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

  My biggest real concern about this is idiots, particularly young idiots, like 
most of us on this list probably were. Printing up the gun on a cheap printer 
and blowing their hands off because they don't understand the plastic quality 
matters. Granted, dumb kids like us blew things up with other stuff and manages 
to keep most of our fingers and a percentage of our hearing. Maybe I'm just 
getting old and worry about the consequences of dumb kids. 

  And what happens to some kid who loads the file into one of the school 
printers, his life is effectively over for being a dumb kid.

  I find the hype humorous since you could download anarchist cookbook from 
almost day one of the public interwebs. Meth recipes and instruction, ricin 
production from castor beans, this krocodile fake heroin, napalm recipes, etc. 

  On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 8:57 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

On 8/1/18 6:48 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
> Yep. There is a reason guns essential parts are made of metal instead of 
> plastic. They will still shoot metal bullets.


Print some plastic ones. Problem solved.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-02 Thread can...@believewireless.net 
Chuck, I hope this list isn't international... expect a knock on your door
from the FBI from what you just published.

On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 10:29 AM,  wrote:

> But you don’t need a 3D printer.
>
> When I was a kid:  I put a shotgun shell in a vise, held a nail with
> pliers and used the nail and a ball peen hammer to set it off.
>
> I put shotgun shells in pipes and did similar things.
>
> As young as 5 years old I crammed a 22 cal cartridge into the holes in a
> chunk of lava rock and hammered it with another rock until it went off.
>
> As previously mentioned here, zip guns have been made for decades.  I
> recently crammed a 22 cal into a soda straw and threw it up in the air to
> come down on concrete.  It did not go off as promised.
>
> Tape a ball bearing or marble on the bottom of a shotgun shell and do the
> same thing.
> Lots of fun to be had without a 3D printer.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:53 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
>
> My biggest real concern about this is idiots, particularly young idiots,
> like most of us on this list probably were. Printing up the gun on a cheap
> printer and blowing their hands off because they don't understand the
> plastic quality matters. Granted, dumb kids like us blew things up with
> other stuff and manages to keep most of our fingers and a percentage of our
> hearing. Maybe I'm just getting old and worry about the consequences of
> dumb kids.
>
> And what happens to some kid who loads the file into one of the school
> printers, his life is effectively over for being a dumb kid.
>
> I find the hype humorous since you could download anarchist cookbook from
> almost day one of the public interwebs. Meth recipes and instruction, ricin
> production from castor beans, this krocodile fake heroin, napalm recipes,
> etc.
>
> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 8:57 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
>> On 8/1/18 6:48 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>> > Yep. There is a reason guns essential parts are made of metal instead
>> of
>> > plastic. They will still shoot metal bullets.
>>
>>
>> Print some plastic ones. Problem solved.
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-02 Thread chuck 

amen

-Original Message- 
From: Jay Weekley 
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2018 7:54 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns 


I'm lucky that the internet wasn't around when I was a kid.

Steve Jones wrote:
My biggest real concern about this is idiots, particularly young 
idiots, like most of us on this list probably were. Printing up the 
gun on a cheap printer and blowing their hands off because they don't 
understand the plastic quality matters. Granted, dumb kids like us 
blew things up with other stuff and manages to keep most of our 
fingers and a percentage of our hearing. Maybe I'm just getting old 
and worry about the consequences of dumb kids.


And what happens to some kid who loads the file into one of the school 
printers, his life is effectively over for being a dumb kid.


I find the hype humorous since you could download anarchist cookbook 
from almost day one of the public interwebs. Meth recipes and 
instruction, ricin production from castor beans, this krocodile fake 
heroin, napalm recipes, etc.


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 8:57 PM Seth Mattinen <mailto:se...@rollernet.us>> wrote:


On 8/1/18 6:48 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
> Yep. There is a reason guns essential parts are made of metal
instead of
> plastic. They will still shoot metal bullets.


Print some plastic ones. Problem solved.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-02 Thread chuck 
But you don’t need a 3D printer.

When I was a kid:  I put a shotgun shell in a vise, held a nail with pliers and 
used the nail and a ball peen hammer to set it off.

I put shotgun shells in pipes and did similar things.

As young as 5 years old I crammed a 22 cal cartridge into the holes in a chunk 
of lava rock and hammered it with another rock until it went off.  

As previously mentioned here, zip guns have been made for decades.  I recently 
crammed a 22 cal into a soda straw and threw it up in the air to come down on 
concrete.  It did not go off as promised.  

Tape a ball bearing or marble on the bottom of a shotgun shell and do the same 
thing.  
Lots of fun to be had without a 3D printer.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

My biggest real concern about this is idiots, particularly young idiots, like 
most of us on this list probably were. Printing up the gun on a cheap printer 
and blowing their hands off because they don't understand the plastic quality 
matters. Granted, dumb kids like us blew things up with other stuff and manages 
to keep most of our fingers and a percentage of our hearing. Maybe I'm just 
getting old and worry about the consequences of dumb kids. 

And what happens to some kid who loads the file into one of the school 
printers, his life is effectively over for being a dumb kid.

I find the hype humorous since you could download anarchist cookbook from 
almost day one of the public interwebs. Meth recipes and instruction, ricin 
production from castor beans, this krocodile fake heroin, napalm recipes, etc. 

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 8:57 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

  On 8/1/18 6:48 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
  > Yep. There is a reason guns essential parts are made of metal instead of 
  > plastic. They will still shoot metal bullets.


  Print some plastic ones. Problem solved.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-02 Thread Jay Weekley 

I'd be dead or missing things like eyes, fingers etc.

can...@believewireless.net wrote:

+1 Jay. I'd definitely be in prison for life.

On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 9:54 AM, Jay Weekley > wrote:


I'm lucky that the internet wasn't around when I was a kid.

Steve Jones wrote:

My biggest real concern about this is idiots, particularly
young idiots, like most of us on this list probably were.
Printing up the gun on a cheap printer and blowing their hands
off because they don't understand the plastic quality matters.
Granted, dumb kids like us blew things up with other stuff and
manages to keep most of our fingers and a percentage of our
hearing. Maybe I'm just getting old and worry about the
consequences of dumb kids.

And what happens to some kid who loads the file into one of
the school printers, his life is effectively over for being a
dumb kid.

I find the hype humorous since you could download anarchist
cookbook from almost day one of the public interwebs. Meth
recipes and instruction, ricin production from castor beans,
this krocodile fake heroin, napalm recipes, etc.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 8:57 PM Seth Mattinen mailto:se...@rollernet.us> >> wrote:

On 8/1/18 6:48 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
> Yep. There is a reason guns essential parts are made of
metal
instead of
> plastic. They will still shoot metal bullets.


Print some plastic ones. Problem solved.

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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-02 Thread can...@believewireless.net 
+1 Jay. I'd definitely be in prison for life.

On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 9:54 AM, Jay Weekley 
wrote:

> I'm lucky that the internet wasn't around when I was a kid.
>
> Steve Jones wrote:
>
>> My biggest real concern about this is idiots, particularly young idiots,
>> like most of us on this list probably were. Printing up the gun on a cheap
>> printer and blowing their hands off because they don't understand the
>> plastic quality matters. Granted, dumb kids like us blew things up with
>> other stuff and manages to keep most of our fingers and a percentage of our
>> hearing. Maybe I'm just getting old and worry about the consequences of
>> dumb kids.
>>
>> And what happens to some kid who loads the file into one of the school
>> printers, his life is effectively over for being a dumb kid.
>>
>> I find the hype humorous since you could download anarchist cookbook from
>> almost day one of the public interwebs. Meth recipes and instruction, ricin
>> production from castor beans, this krocodile fake heroin, napalm recipes,
>> etc.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 8:57 PM Seth Mattinen > se...@rollernet.us>> wrote:
>>
>> On 8/1/18 6:48 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>> > Yep. There is a reason guns essential parts are made of metal
>> instead of
>> > plastic. They will still shoot metal bullets.
>>
>>
>> Print some plastic ones. Problem solved.
>>
>> -- AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com 
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-02 Thread Dave 
Im just sayin... Who the hell would want a plastic one when you would 
only get a few shots of before the barrel melted.
Also, I prefer the real deal.. It just feels good to squeeze down on a 
M4 and put the crosshairs of my Akog on a target at more than 400m and 
squeeze off a round.


Mind u this is in an environment that is deemed hostile and your 
survival and others around you depend on your marksmanship :)


I do agree with the accessibility to those with no understanding and 
respect of a weapon designed to kill.




On 08/01/2018 10:53 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
My biggest real concern about this is idiots, particularly young 
idiots, like most of us on this list probably were. Printing up the 
gun on a cheap printer and blowing their hands off because they don't 
understand the plastic quality matters. Granted, dumb kids like us 
blew things up with other stuff and manages to keep most of our 
fingers and a percentage of our hearing. Maybe I'm just getting old 
and worry about the consequences of dumb kids.


And what happens to some kid who loads the file into one of the school 
printers, his life is effectively over for being a dumb kid.


I find the hype humorous since you could download anarchist cookbook 
from almost day one of the public interwebs. Meth recipes and 
instruction, ricin production from castor beans, this krocodile fake 
heroin, napalm recipes, etc.


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 8:57 PM Seth Mattinen > wrote:


On 8/1/18 6:48 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
> Yep. There is a reason guns essential parts are made of metal
instead of
> plastic. They will still shoot metal bullets.


Print some plastic ones. Problem solved.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-01 Thread Steve Jones 
My biggest real concern about this is idiots, particularly young idiots,
like most of us on this list probably were. Printing up the gun on a cheap
printer and blowing their hands off because they don't understand the
plastic quality matters. Granted, dumb kids like us blew things up with
other stuff and manages to keep most of our fingers and a percentage of our
hearing. Maybe I'm just getting old and worry about the consequences of
dumb kids.

And what happens to some kid who loads the file into one of the school
printers, his life is effectively over for being a dumb kid.

I find the hype humorous since you could download anarchist cookbook from
almost day one of the public interwebs. Meth recipes and instruction, ricin
production from castor beans, this krocodile fake heroin, napalm recipes,
etc.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 8:57 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 8/1/18 6:48 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
> > Yep. There is a reason guns essential parts are made of metal instead of
> > plastic. They will still shoot metal bullets.
>
>
> Print some plastic ones. Problem solved.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-01 Thread Seth Mattinen 

On 8/1/18 6:48 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
Yep. There is a reason guns essential parts are made of metal instead of 
plastic. They will still shoot metal bullets.



Print some plastic ones. Problem solved.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-01 Thread Jay Weekley 
Yep. There is a reason guns essential parts are made of metal instead of 
plastic. They will still shoot metal bullets.


justsumname wrote:

In response to OP:
“Regardless of what a person may be able to publish on the 
Internet, undetectable plastic guns have been illegal for 30 years. 
Federal law passed in 1988, crafted with the NRA’s support, makes it 
unlawful to manufacture, import, sell, ship, deliver, possess, 
transfer, or receive an undetectable firearm.”


In response to my Nanny State comment:   I am offended by victimless 
felonies.   They trigger me.   And when I think about them, I feel 
micro-aggressed.


My understanding is that there is NO "plastic gun" even in question.  
 Even a 3-D printed 'firearm' will not function without a few metal 
parts, such as, a chamber.   Or maybe perhaps a trigger spring.   Or a 
barrel.


Ya know, if you make a gun wrongly, you might discover how to make a 
bomb.   And that's illegal already, too.


--Damn It






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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-01 Thread Mathew Howard 
>From what I've heard (which really isn't much), it sounds like the judge's
order was actually based on export restrictions, but I certainly got the
impression that it was about restricting it inside the US. It seems to me
that it will be difficult to keep a ban like that in place. I'm not trying
to get into the question of whether or not things like that should be
restricted, I just don't see how it can be under current law.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 6:46 PM  wrote:

> I get ITAR.  I have built software that was restricted.
> I remember not being able to sell to Vietnam.
>
> But if they really want to restrict knowledge of gun designs, they would
> have to bar the viewing of patents too.
>
> I think the judge was being emotional and political rather than logical
> and legal minded.
>
> *From:* Chuck Macenski
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 1, 2018 5:40 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
>
> If the "law" in question is that the export of a 3D printed design is an
> ITAR violation, then that's what the discussion (in the courts) should be
> about. Having said that, it is my limited understanding that the judge in
> the case was more worried about its use inside the US. To me, that seems
> like a stretch. You should not read my personal position on whether this is
> a good idea into this comment; I just wish people would argue about
> controversial issues honestly rather than, as an example, using an ITAR
> restriction to control distribution within the US. This is far from the
> only issue where people argue their position based on one set of facts when
> their real concern is something quite different.
>
> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 3:22 PM justsumname  wrote:
>
>> In response to OP:
>> “Regardless of what a person may be able to publish on the Internet,
>> undetectable plastic guns have been illegal for 30 years.  Federal law
>> passed in 1988, crafted with the NRA’s support, makes it unlawful to
>> manufacture, import, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive an
>> undetectable firearm.”
>>
>> In response to my Nanny State comment:   I am offended by victimless
>> felonies.   They trigger me.   And when I think about them, I feel
>> micro-aggressed.
>>
>> My understanding is that there is NO "plastic gun" even in question.
>> Even a 3-D printed 'firearm' will not function without a few metal parts,
>> such as, a chamber.   Or maybe perhaps a trigger spring.   Or a barrel.
>>
>> Ya know, if you make a gun wrongly, you might discover how to make a
>> bomb.   And that's illegal already, too.
>>
>> --Damn It
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-01 Thread chuck 
I get ITAR.  I have built software that was restricted.  
I remember not being able to sell to Vietnam.  

But if they really want to restrict knowledge of gun designs, they would have 
to bar the viewing of patents too.  

I think the judge was being emotional and political rather than logical and 
legal minded.  

From: Chuck Macenski 
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 5:40 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

If the "law" in question is that the export of a 3D printed design is an ITAR 
violation, then that's what the discussion (in the courts) should be about. 
Having said that, it is my limited understanding that the judge in the case was 
more worried about its use inside the US. To me, that seems like a stretch. You 
should not read my personal position on whether this is a good idea into this 
comment; I just wish people would argue about controversial issues honestly 
rather than, as an example, using an ITAR restriction to control distribution 
within the US. This is far from the only issue where people argue their 
position based on one set of facts when their real concern is something quite 
different. 

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 3:22 PM justsumname  wrote:

  In response to OP: 
  “Regardless of what a person may be able to publish on the Internet, 
undetectable plastic guns have been illegal for 30 years.  Federal law passed 
in 1988, crafted with the NRA’s support, makes it unlawful to manufacture, 
import, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive an undetectable 
firearm.” 


  In response to my Nanny State comment:   I am offended by victimless 
felonies.   They trigger me.   And when I think about them, I feel 
micro-aggressed.

  My understanding is that there is NO "plastic gun" even in question.   Even a 
3-D printed 'firearm' will not function without a few metal parts, such as, a 
chamber.   Or maybe perhaps a trigger spring.   Or a barrel.

  Ya know, if you make a gun wrongly, you might discover how to make a bomb.   
And that's illegal already, too.

  --Damn It


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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-01 Thread Chuck Macenski 
If the "law" in question is that the export of a 3D printed design is an
ITAR violation, then that's what the discussion (in the courts) should be
about. Having said that, it is my limited understanding that the judge in
the case was more worried about its use inside the US. To me, that seems
like a stretch. You should not read my personal position on whether this is
a good idea into this comment; I just wish people would argue about
controversial issues honestly rather than, as an example, using an ITAR
restriction to control distribution within the US. This is far from the
only issue where people argue their position based on one set of facts when
their real concern is something quite different.

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 3:22 PM justsumname  wrote:

> In response to OP:
> “Regardless of what a person may be able to publish on the Internet,
> undetectable plastic guns have been illegal for 30 years.  Federal law
> passed in 1988, crafted with the NRA’s support, makes it unlawful to
> manufacture, import, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive an
> undetectable firearm.”
>
> In response to my Nanny State comment:   I am offended by victimless
> felonies.   They trigger me.   And when I think about them, I feel
> micro-aggressed.
>
> My understanding is that there is NO "plastic gun" even in question.
>  Even a 3-D printed 'firearm' will not function without a few metal parts,
> such as, a chamber.   Or maybe perhaps a trigger spring.   Or a barrel.
>
> Ya know, if you make a gun wrongly, you might discover how to make a
> bomb.   And that's illegal already, too.
>
> --Damn It
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-01 Thread Sean Heskett 
It’s more about export laws governing weapons.  Just like you can’t export
strong encryption etc.

And also it is still LENT -Stay klassy San Diego ;)

-sean




On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:36 AM  wrote:

> Sorry, I guess we are actually getting into politics.  But it is just
> files, and the rights to own and share files.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 1, 2018 11:31 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
> I am out of here for now ...you open the door I don't want to go in...you
> will not like my response
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 10:36 AM  wrote:
>
>> No, bicycle spoke drawings are not forbidden
>>
>> There are 3D metal printers.  But for really good ones you are probably
>> taking 6 figures.
>>
>> But a manual lathe and mill can be purchased for $1K and you can buy
>> metal...
>>
>> I don’t think they are going to be able to draw a line, but let’s assume
>> for a moment Nancy Pelosi and Maxine Waters are queens of the world.  What
>> would they say I wonder...  We can only rent sporks from the restaurant
>> while dining.  No sharp pencils allowed?
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 1, 2018 10:29 AM
>> *To:* AFMUG
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
>>
>> Yeah... most people seem to have a very unrealistic idea of what a 3D
>> printer actually does.  I'm pretty sure I can't go buy a cheap 3D printer,
>> download that file, and have it spit out a functional gun 10 minutes later.
>>
>> If I post instructions on the internet for building a gun out of an old
>> bicycle, using a file and a hacksaw, would that be illegal? it's really no
>> different...
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:12 AM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/1/18 8:56 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> > I had all of the 3D files for an AR-15 years ago.
>>> > Widely available for download.
>>> > Easy to send to a 3D printer or a CNC milling machine.
>>> > The news is hyping this as something new.  I’ll bet those files I
>>> > downloaded are at least 10 years old.
>>> > Give me a gun, micrometer, calipers, height gauge and I will re-create
>>> > those files in a day.
>>> > What is the difference between thick walled tubing and a barrel?
>>> > Is a file that gives the design for a trigger or hammer going to be
>>> > outlawed.
>>> > But what if you make cap guns...  Squire guns... airsoft or paint ball
>>> > guns
>>> > And are they going to outlaw just certain gun part files or
>>> combinations
>>> > of files this seems totally impossible to outlaw.
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> It seems like people think anyone can go buy a $90 entry level 3D
>>> printer and crank out a fully functional weapon instantly. Well,
>>> something for stabbing could be done in one print. I have to assume that
>>> everyone who is freaking out has never seen a real 3D printer.
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-01 Thread Mathew Howard 
The obvious difference there is that it's going to take a certain amount of
skill to use a manual lathe and mill. They're making it sound like any
idiot can just print out a complete, fully functional gun. Even with one of
those really good 6 figure printers, I'm assuming you're still going to at
least have to assemble the thing (not that it's really matters anyway, if
you can afford to spend that kind of money, you're going to be able to get
as many untraceable guns as you want). Anyway, if somebody actually did
manage to make a gun with a $90 3D printer, what are the chances it won't
blow up in their face when they try to use it?

Pencils do seem pretty dangerous... and do we really need them, when safe,
soft tipped sharpies are so easily available? It would probably be best if
all just lived in padded cells, and were only allowed to use our sporks at
meal times, under proper supervision...

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:36 AM  wrote:

> No, bicycle spoke drawings are not forbidden
>
> There are 3D metal printers.  But for really good ones you are probably
> taking 6 figures.
>
> But a manual lathe and mill can be purchased for $1K and you can buy
> metal...
>
> I don’t think they are going to be able to draw a line, but let’s assume
> for a moment Nancy Pelosi and Maxine Waters are queens of the world.  What
> would they say I wonder...  We can only rent sporks from the restaurant
> while dining.  No sharp pencils allowed?
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 1, 2018 10:29 AM
> *To:* AFMUG
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns
>
> Yeah... most people seem to have a very unrealistic idea of what a 3D
> printer actually does.  I'm pretty sure I can't go buy a cheap 3D printer,
> download that file, and have it spit out a functional gun 10 minutes later.
>
> If I post instructions on the internet for building a gun out of an old
> bicycle, using a file and a hacksaw, would that be illegal? it's really no
> different...
>
> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:12 AM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
>> On 8/1/18 8:56 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> > I had all of the 3D files for an AR-15 years ago.
>> > Widely available for download.
>> > Easy to send to a 3D printer or a CNC milling machine.
>> > The news is hyping this as something new.  I’ll bet those files I
>> > downloaded are at least 10 years old.
>> > Give me a gun, micrometer, calipers, height gauge and I will re-create
>> > those files in a day.
>> > What is the difference between thick walled tubing and a barrel?
>> > Is a file that gives the design for a trigger or hammer going to be
>> > outlawed.
>> > But what if you make cap guns...  Squire guns... airsoft or paint ball
>> > guns
>> > And are they going to outlaw just certain gun part files or
>> combinations
>> > of files this seems totally impossible to outlaw.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> It seems like people think anyone can go buy a $90 entry level 3D
>> printer and crank out a fully functional weapon instantly. Well,
>> something for stabbing could be done in one print. I have to assume that
>> everyone who is freaking out has never seen a real 3D printer.
>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-01 Thread chuck 
No, bicycle spoke drawings are not forbidden

There are 3D metal printers.  But for really good ones you are probably taking 
6 figures.  

But a manual lathe and mill can be purchased for $1K and you can buy metal...  

I don’t think they are going to be able to draw a line, but let’s assume for a 
moment Nancy Pelosi and Maxine Waters are queens of the world.  What would they 
say I wonder...  We can only rent sporks from the restaurant while dining.  No 
sharp pencils allowed?

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 10:29 AM
To: AFMUG 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

Yeah... most people seem to have a very unrealistic idea of what a 3D printer 
actually does.  I'm pretty sure I can't go buy a cheap 3D printer, download 
that file, and have it spit out a functional gun 10 minutes later.

If I post instructions on the internet for building a gun out of an old 
bicycle, using a file and a hacksaw, would that be illegal? it's really no 
different... 


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:12 AM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

  On 8/1/18 8:56 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
  > I had all of the 3D files for an AR-15 years ago.
  > Widely available for download.
  > Easy to send to a 3D printer or a CNC milling machine.
  > The news is hyping this as something new.  I’ll bet those files I 
  > downloaded are at least 10 years old.
  > Give me a gun, micrometer, calipers, height gauge and I will re-create 
  > those files in a day.
  > What is the difference between thick walled tubing and a barrel?
  > Is a file that gives the design for a trigger or hammer going to be 
  > outlawed.
  > But what if you make cap guns...  Squire guns... airsoft or paint ball 
  > guns
  > And are they going to outlaw just certain gun part files or combinations 
  > of files this seems totally impossible to outlaw.
  > 
  > 

  It seems like people think anyone can go buy a $90 entry level 3D 
  printer and crank out a fully functional weapon instantly. Well, 
  something for stabbing could be done in one print. I have to assume that 
  everyone who is freaking out has never seen a real 3D printer.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-01 Thread Mathew Howard 
Yeah... most people seem to have a very unrealistic idea of what a 3D
printer actually does.  I'm pretty sure I can't go buy a cheap 3D printer,
download that file, and have it spit out a functional gun 10 minutes later.

If I post instructions on the internet for building a gun out of an old
bicycle, using a file and a hacksaw, would that be illegal? it's really no
different...

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 11:12 AM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 8/1/18 8:56 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> > I had all of the 3D files for an AR-15 years ago.
> > Widely available for download.
> > Easy to send to a 3D printer or a CNC milling machine.
> > The news is hyping this as something new.  I’ll bet those files I
> > downloaded are at least 10 years old.
> > Give me a gun, micrometer, calipers, height gauge and I will re-create
> > those files in a day.
> > What is the difference between thick walled tubing and a barrel?
> > Is a file that gives the design for a trigger or hammer going to be
> > outlawed.
> > But what if you make cap guns...  Squire guns... airsoft or paint ball
> > guns
> > And are they going to outlaw just certain gun part files or combinations
> > of files this seems totally impossible to outlaw.
> >
> >
>
> It seems like people think anyone can go buy a $90 entry level 3D
> printer and crank out a fully functional weapon instantly. Well,
> something for stabbing could be done in one print. I have to assume that
> everyone who is freaking out has never seen a real 3D printer.
>
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[AFMUG] OT 3d printing and guns

2018-08-01 Thread chuck 
I had all of the 3D files for an AR-15 years ago.  
Widely available for download.  
Easy to send to a 3D printer or a CNC milling machine.  

The news is hyping this as something new.  I’ll bet those files I downloaded 
are at least 10 years old.
Give me a gun, micrometer, calipers, height gauge and I will re-create those 
files in a day.  

What is the difference between thick walled tubing and a barrel?
Is a file that gives the design for a trigger or hammer going to be outlawed.  
But what if you make cap guns...  Squire guns... airsoft or paint ball guns

And are they going to outlaw just certain gun part files or combinations of 
files this seems totally impossible to outlaw.  -- 
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