Re: [AFMUG] OT I don't get it

2019-08-21 Thread Bill Prince 
i saw this on Vice, and expected to read just one article, but there are 
actually several articles that outline many of the pratfalls in the 
blossoming weed industry,


https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ywag8j/oregon-has-way-too-much-legal-weed-this-is-where-its-going

bp


On 8/21/2019 10:54 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:

Where did you sell cigarettes?

Chuck Hogg wrote:
Stampless tobacco is either counterfeit or sold through places like 
Indian reservations.  Indian Reservations and the big tobacco giants 
love each other.  The reservations will sell to the small gas 
stations with stampless product or counterfeited stamps.  Usually the 
largest part of the price of cigarettes comes in the form of taxes.


I used to sell about 12-14k cartons a month.  The Indian Reservations 
contacted me multiple times to get truckloads of unstamped Philip 
Morris or RJ Reynolds product.


On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 10:16 AM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:


    Yes, the hydropnics is expensive, but the real killer is the
    electricity. If youre growing high potency niche strains, you need
    to control the entire environment. I think cali is a 6 plant state.
    There is still black market booze, huge numbers of black market
    tobacco products. Taxes and regulations are always going to
    produce black markets. Illionois just went to tobacco 21 and
    jacked taxes. Stampless tobacco is all over the place now. I dont
    even know where they get these, packaging looks legit, so maybe
    they just truck ot from manufacturers

    On Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 7:09 AM Jay Weekley
    mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> 
wrote:


    You can grow your own in California can't you?  Is it very
    hard or
    expensive to do so?

    Bill Prince wrote:
    >
    > The black market still exists because they made the taxes so
    high.
    >
    > The cannabis coming from south of the border does not have
    the same
    > (or any) quality/potency controls.
    >
    > Yes. They are worried about losing revenue.
    >
    > What they don't understand (yet) is if they lower the
    duty/taxes on
    > cannabis, the legal volume will go up and make more revenue.
    >
    > bp
    > 
    >
    > On 8/18/2019 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
    >> News article about some pot mixed with peppers being
    intercepted in
    >> San Diego.
    >> Officials said:
    >>
    >> Not only did they prevent the drugs from reaching our
    community,
    >> they also prevented millions of dollars of potential
    profit from
    >> making it into the hands of a transnational criminal
    organization."
    >>
    >> The first half of that does not make any sense to me because
    >> California now has a vested interest in these so called
    “drugs” from
    >> reaching the community via official channels.
    >> The second half seems like it is more about the state
    losing the profit?
    >> How is it worth the risk to import pot into a state that has
    >> recreational pot?  Is there a market for black market pot?
    >>
    >
    >

    --     *Jay Weekley*
    *Cyber Broadband
    *

    ---
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Re: [AFMUG] OT I don't get it

2019-08-21 Thread Jay Weekley 

Where did you sell cigarettes?

Chuck Hogg wrote:
Stampless tobacco is either counterfeit or sold through places like 
Indian reservations.  Indian Reservations and the big tobacco giants 
love each other.  The reservations will sell to the small gas stations 
with stampless product or counterfeited stamps.  Usually the largest 
part of the price of cigarettes comes in the form of taxes.


I used to sell about 12-14k cartons a month.  The Indian Reservations 
contacted me multiple times to get truckloads of unstamped Philip 
Morris or RJ Reynolds product.


On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 10:16 AM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Yes, the hydropnics is expensive, but the real killer is the
electricity. If youre growing high potency niche strains, you need
to control the entire environment. I think cali is a 6 plant state.
There is still black market booze, huge numbers of black market
tobacco products. Taxes and regulations are always going to
produce black markets. Illionois just went to tobacco 21 and
jacked taxes. Stampless tobacco is all over the place now. I dont
even know where they get these, packaging looks legit, so maybe
they just truck ot from manufacturers

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 7:09 AM Jay Weekley
mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:

You can grow your own in California can't you?  Is it very
hard or
expensive to do so?

Bill Prince wrote:
>
> The black market still exists because they made the taxes so
high.
>
> The cannabis coming from south of the border does not have
the same
> (or any) quality/potency controls.
>
> Yes. They are worried about losing revenue.
>
> What they don't understand (yet) is if they lower the
duty/taxes on
> cannabis, the legal volume will go up and make more revenue.
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 8/18/2019 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> News article about some pot mixed with peppers being
intercepted in
>> San Diego.
>> Officials said:
>>
>> Not only did they prevent the drugs from reaching our
community,
>> they also prevented millions of dollars of potential
profit from
>> making it into the hands of a transnational criminal
organization."
>>
>> The first half of that does not make any sense to me because
>> California now has a vested interest in these so called
“drugs” from
>> reaching the community via official channels.
>> The second half seems like it is more about the state
losing the profit?
>> How is it worth the risk to import pot into a state that has
>> recreational pot?  Is there a market for black market pot?
>>
>
>

-- 
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*Cyber Broadband
*

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Re: [AFMUG] OT I don't get it

2019-08-21 Thread Chuck Hogg 
Stampless tobacco is either counterfeit or sold through places like Indian
reservations.  Indian Reservations and the big tobacco giants love each
other.  The reservations will sell to the small gas stations with stampless
product or counterfeited stamps.  Usually the largest part of the price of
cigarettes comes in the form of taxes.

I used to sell about 12-14k cartons a month.  The Indian Reservations
contacted me multiple times to get truckloads of unstamped Philip Morris or
RJ Reynolds product.

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 10:16 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Yes, the hydropnics is expensive, but the real killer is the electricity.
> If youre growing high potency niche strains, you need to control the entire
> environment. I think cali is a 6 plant state.
> There is still black market booze, huge numbers of black market tobacco
> products. Taxes and regulations are always going to produce black markets.
> Illionois just went to tobacco 21 and jacked taxes. Stampless tobacco is
> all over the place now. I dont even know where they get these, packaging
> looks legit, so maybe they just truck ot from manufacturers
>
> On Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 7:09 AM Jay Weekley 
> wrote:
>
>> You can grow your own in California can't you?  Is it very hard or
>> expensive to do so?
>>
>> Bill Prince wrote:
>> >
>> > The black market still exists because they made the taxes so high.
>> >
>> > The cannabis coming from south of the border does not have the same
>> > (or any) quality/potency controls.
>> >
>> > Yes. They are worried about losing revenue.
>> >
>> > What they don't understand (yet) is if they lower the duty/taxes on
>> > cannabis, the legal volume will go up and make more revenue.
>> >
>> > bp
>> > 
>> >
>> > On 8/18/2019 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> >> News article about some pot mixed with peppers being intercepted in
>> >> San Diego.
>> >> Officials said:
>> >>
>> >> Not only did they prevent the drugs from reaching our community,
>> >> they also prevented millions of dollars of potential profit from
>> >> making it into the hands of a transnational criminal organization."
>> >>
>> >> The first half of that does not make any sense to me because
>> >> California now has a vested interest in these so called “drugs” from
>> >> reaching the community via official channels.
>> >> The second half seems like it is more about the state losing the
>> profit?
>> >> How is it worth the risk to import pot into a state that has
>> >> recreational pot?  Is there a market for black market pot?
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> *Jay Weekley*
>> *Cyber Broadband
>> *
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT I don't get it

2019-08-20 Thread Steve Jones 
Its not really complicated, ask any dealer where its legal, its the taxes

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 12:08 PM Dan Parrish  wrote:

> Ah, the old, "If you just lower taxes you make more money in tax revenue
> argument." Armchair policy-making on this isn't so easy. This is a
> complicated issue.
>
> --dan
>
>
>
> On 8/18/2019 7:57 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> The black market still exists because they made the taxes so high.
>
> The cannabis coming from south of the border does not have the same (or
> any) quality/potency controls.
>
> Yes. They are worried about losing revenue.
>
> What they don't understand (yet) is if they lower the duty/taxes on
> cannabis, the legal volume will go up and make more revenue.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 8/18/2019 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> News article about some pot mixed with peppers being intercepted in San
> Diego.
>
> Officials said:
>
> Not only did they prevent the drugs from reaching our community, they also
> prevented millions of dollars of potential profit from making it into the
> hands of a transnational criminal organization."
>
>
> The first half of that does not make any sense to me because California
> now has a vested interest in these so called “drugs” from reaching the
> community via official channels.
>
> The second half seems like it is more about the state losing the profit?
>
> How is it worth the risk to import pot into a state that has recreational
> pot?  Is there a market for black market pot?
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT I don't get it

2019-08-20 Thread Dan Parrish 
Ah, the old, "If you just lower taxes you make more money in tax revenue 
argument." Armchair policy-making on this isn't so easy. This is a complicated 
issue.

--dan



On 8/18/2019 7:57 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

The black market still exists because they made the taxes so high.

The cannabis coming from south of the border does not have the same (or any) 
quality/potency controls.

Yes. They are worried about losing revenue.

What they don't understand (yet) is if they lower the duty/taxes on cannabis, 
the legal volume will go up and make more revenue.

bp




On 8/18/2019 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
News article about some pot mixed with peppers being intercepted in San Diego.

Officials said:
Not only did they prevent the drugs from reaching our community, they also 
prevented millions of dollars of potential profit from making it into the hands 
of a transnational criminal organization."

The first half of that does not make any sense to me because California now has 
a vested interest in these so called “drugs” from reaching the community via 
official channels.

The second half seems like it is more about the state losing the profit?

How is it worth the risk to import pot into a state that has recreational pot?  
Is there a market for black market pot?





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Re: [AFMUG] OT I don't get it

2019-08-19 Thread Adam Moffett 
Yeah, I was gonna mention back when I was a smoker I found I could mail 
order Marlboro's and Camels from other countries to avoid all the 
taxes.  In that case it was apparently cheaper to ship them to another 
country and mail them back than to pay the taxes.


-Adam


On 8/19/2019 10:15 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
Yes, the hydropnics is expensive, but the real killer is the 
electricity. If youre growing high potency niche strains, you need to 
control the entire environment. I think cali is a 6 plant state.
There is still black market booze, huge numbers of black market 
tobacco products. Taxes and regulations are always going to produce 
black markets. Illionois just went to tobacco 21 and jacked taxes. 
Stampless tobacco is all over the place now. I dont even know where 
they get these, packaging looks legit, so maybe they just truck ot 
from manufacturers


On Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 7:09 AM Jay Weekley > wrote:


You can grow your own in California can't you?  Is it very hard or
expensive to do so?

Bill Prince wrote:
>
> The black market still exists because they made the taxes so high.
>
> The cannabis coming from south of the border does not have the same
> (or any) quality/potency controls.
>
> Yes. They are worried about losing revenue.
>
> What they don't understand (yet) is if they lower the duty/taxes on
> cannabis, the legal volume will go up and make more revenue.
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 8/18/2019 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> News article about some pot mixed with peppers being
intercepted in
>> San Diego.
>> Officials said:
>>
>>     Not only did they prevent the drugs from reaching our
community,
>>     they also prevented millions of dollars of potential profit
from
>>     making it into the hands of a transnational criminal
organization."
>>
>> The first half of that does not make any sense to me because
>> California now has a vested interest in these so called “drugs”
from
>> reaching the community via official channels.
>> The second half seems like it is more about the state losing
the profit?
>> How is it worth the risk to import pot into a state that has
>> recreational pot?  Is there a market for black market pot?
>>
>
>

-- 
*Jay Weekley*

*Cyber Broadband
*

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Re: [AFMUG] OT I don't get it

2019-08-19 Thread Mike Delp 
I can only speak on Missouri Law, since I am there.  My disease (MS)
qualifies me for a Certification, once i finish the paperwork.  In MO you
can get a cultivation card (extra 100 per year) and have six flowering
plants, six ready to flower plants and six seedlings so 18 total. This must
be in a locked facility. There is a care giver provision that can have
three patients use him/her to grow for them effectively tripling one grow
site.

Learning a lot about this new frontier down here.

Thanks,

Mike

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 10:02 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> I think you're allowed to grow up to a certain amount. Don't know the
> details.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 8/19/2019 5:08 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
> > You can grow your own in California can't you?  Is it very hard or
> > expensive to do so?
> >
> > Bill Prince wrote:
> >>
> >> The black market still exists because they made the taxes so high.
> >>
> >> The cannabis coming from south of the border does not have the same
> >> (or any) quality/potency controls.
> >>
> >> Yes. They are worried about losing revenue.
> >>
> >> What they don't understand (yet) is if they lower the duty/taxes on
> >> cannabis, the legal volume will go up and make more revenue.
> >>
> >> bp
> >> 
> >>
> >> On 8/18/2019 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> >>> News article about some pot mixed with peppers being intercepted in
> >>> San Diego.
> >>> Officials said:
> >>>
> >>> Not only did they prevent the drugs from reaching our community,
> >>> they also prevented millions of dollars of potential profit from
> >>> making it into the hands of a transnational criminal organization."
> >>>
> >>> The first half of that does not make any sense to me because
> >>> California now has a vested interest in these so called “drugs” from
> >>> reaching the community via official channels.
> >>> The second half seems like it is more about the state losing the
> >>> profit?
> >>> How is it worth the risk to import pot into a state that has
> >>> recreational pot?  Is there a market for black market pot?
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT I don't get it

2019-08-19 Thread Bill Prince 
There is also a huge market for cannabis in "illegal" states. That's 
apparently a giant issue in Colorado, where there are still black market 
growers shipping their product to Florida. Legal growers won't do this 
so they can stay legal.


Things probably won't settle out until the laws are more equal across 
the nation. Don't hold your breath for that to happen (no pun intended).


bp


On 8/19/2019 7:30 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
A friend thought legalized drugs would be the end of people getting in 
trouble with the law.  It's true in some ways but I pointed out there 
would be even more laws to follow and more ways to get in trouble with 
them.


Steve Jones wrote:
Yes, the hydropnics is expensive, but the real killer is the 
electricity. If youre growing high potency niche strains, you need to 
control the entire environment. I think cali is a 6 plant state.
There is still black market booze, huge numbers of black market 
tobacco products. Taxes and regulations are always going to produce 
black markets. Illionois just went to tobacco 21 and jacked taxes. 
Stampless tobacco is all over the place now. I dont even know where 
they get these, packaging looks legit, so maybe they just truck ot 
from manufacturers


On Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 7:09 AM Jay Weekley > wrote:


    You can grow your own in California can't you?  Is it very hard or
    expensive to do so?

    Bill Prince wrote:
    >
    > The black market still exists because they made the taxes so high.
    >
    > The cannabis coming from south of the border does not have the 
same

    > (or any) quality/potency controls.
    >
    > Yes. They are worried about losing revenue.
    >
    > What they don't understand (yet) is if they lower the 
duty/taxes on

    > cannabis, the legal volume will go up and make more revenue.
    >
    > bp
    > 
    >
    > On 8/18/2019 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
    >> News article about some pot mixed with peppers being
    intercepted in
    >> San Diego.
    >> Officials said:
    >>
    >> Not only did they prevent the drugs from reaching our
    community,
    >> they also prevented millions of dollars of potential profit
    from
    >> making it into the hands of a transnational criminal
    organization."
    >>
    >> The first half of that does not make any sense to me because
    >> California now has a vested interest in these so called “drugs”
    from
    >> reaching the community via official channels.
    >> The second half seems like it is more about the state losing
    the profit?
    >> How is it worth the risk to import pot into a state that has
    >> recreational pot?  Is there a market for black market pot?
    >>
    >
    >

    --     *Jay Weekley*
    *Cyber Broadband
    *

    ---
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com


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Re: [AFMUG] OT I don't get it

2019-08-19 Thread Bill Prince 
I think you're allowed to grow up to a certain amount. Don't know the 
details.



bp


On 8/19/2019 5:08 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
You can grow your own in California can't you?  Is it very hard or 
expensive to do so?


Bill Prince wrote:


The black market still exists because they made the taxes so high.

The cannabis coming from south of the border does not have the same 
(or any) quality/potency controls.


Yes. They are worried about losing revenue.

What they don't understand (yet) is if they lower the duty/taxes on 
cannabis, the legal volume will go up and make more revenue.


bp


On 8/18/2019 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
News article about some pot mixed with peppers being intercepted in 
San Diego.

Officials said:

    Not only did they prevent the drugs from reaching our community,
    they also prevented millions of dollars of potential profit from
    making it into the hands of a transnational criminal organization."

The first half of that does not make any sense to me because 
California now has a vested interest in these so called “drugs” from 
reaching the community via official channels.
The second half seems like it is more about the state losing the 
profit?
How is it worth the risk to import pot into a state that has 
recreational pot?  Is there a market for black market pot?









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Re: [AFMUG] OT I don't get it

2019-08-19 Thread Jay Weekley 
A friend thought legalized drugs would be the end of people getting in 
trouble with the law.  It's true in some ways but I pointed out there 
would be even more laws to follow and more ways to get in trouble with 
them.


Steve Jones wrote:
Yes, the hydropnics is expensive, but the real killer is the 
electricity. If youre growing high potency niche strains, you need to 
control the entire environment. I think cali is a 6 plant state.
There is still black market booze, huge numbers of black market 
tobacco products. Taxes and regulations are always going to produce 
black markets. Illionois just went to tobacco 21 and jacked taxes. 
Stampless tobacco is all over the place now. I dont even know where 
they get these, packaging looks legit, so maybe they just truck ot 
from manufacturers


On Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 7:09 AM Jay Weekley > wrote:


You can grow your own in California can't you?  Is it very hard or
expensive to do so?

Bill Prince wrote:
>
> The black market still exists because they made the taxes so high.
>
> The cannabis coming from south of the border does not have the same
> (or any) quality/potency controls.
>
> Yes. They are worried about losing revenue.
>
> What they don't understand (yet) is if they lower the duty/taxes on
> cannabis, the legal volume will go up and make more revenue.
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 8/18/2019 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> News article about some pot mixed with peppers being
intercepted in
>> San Diego.
>> Officials said:
>>
>> Not only did they prevent the drugs from reaching our
community,
>> they also prevented millions of dollars of potential profit
from
>> making it into the hands of a transnational criminal
organization."
>>
>> The first half of that does not make any sense to me because
>> California now has a vested interest in these so called “drugs”
from
>> reaching the community via official channels.
>> The second half seems like it is more about the state losing
the profit?
>> How is it worth the risk to import pot into a state that has
>> recreational pot?  Is there a market for black market pot?
>>
>
>

-- 
*Jay Weekley*

*Cyber Broadband
*

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Re: [AFMUG] OT I don't get it

2019-08-19 Thread Steve Jones 
Yes, the hydropnics is expensive, but the real killer is the electricity.
If youre growing high potency niche strains, you need to control the entire
environment. I think cali is a 6 plant state.
There is still black market booze, huge numbers of black market tobacco
products. Taxes and regulations are always going to produce black markets.
Illionois just went to tobacco 21 and jacked taxes. Stampless tobacco is
all over the place now. I dont even know where they get these, packaging
looks legit, so maybe they just truck ot from manufacturers

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 7:09 AM Jay Weekley  wrote:

> You can grow your own in California can't you?  Is it very hard or
> expensive to do so?
>
> Bill Prince wrote:
> >
> > The black market still exists because they made the taxes so high.
> >
> > The cannabis coming from south of the border does not have the same
> > (or any) quality/potency controls.
> >
> > Yes. They are worried about losing revenue.
> >
> > What they don't understand (yet) is if they lower the duty/taxes on
> > cannabis, the legal volume will go up and make more revenue.
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> > On 8/18/2019 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> >> News article about some pot mixed with peppers being intercepted in
> >> San Diego.
> >> Officials said:
> >>
> >> Not only did they prevent the drugs from reaching our community,
> >> they also prevented millions of dollars of potential profit from
> >> making it into the hands of a transnational criminal organization."
> >>
> >> The first half of that does not make any sense to me because
> >> California now has a vested interest in these so called “drugs” from
> >> reaching the community via official channels.
> >> The second half seems like it is more about the state losing the profit?
> >> How is it worth the risk to import pot into a state that has
> >> recreational pot?  Is there a market for black market pot?
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
> *Jay Weekley*
> *Cyber Broadband
> *
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT I don't get it

2019-08-19 Thread Jay Weekley 
You can grow your own in California can't you?  Is it very hard or 
expensive to do so?


Bill Prince wrote:


The black market still exists because they made the taxes so high.

The cannabis coming from south of the border does not have the same 
(or any) quality/potency controls.


Yes. They are worried about losing revenue.

What they don't understand (yet) is if they lower the duty/taxes on 
cannabis, the legal volume will go up and make more revenue.


bp


On 8/18/2019 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
News article about some pot mixed with peppers being intercepted in 
San Diego.

Officials said:

Not only did they prevent the drugs from reaching our community,
they also prevented millions of dollars of potential profit from
making it into the hands of a transnational criminal organization."

The first half of that does not make any sense to me because 
California now has a vested interest in these so called “drugs” from 
reaching the community via official channels.

The second half seems like it is more about the state losing the profit?
How is it worth the risk to import pot into a state that has 
recreational pot?  Is there a market for black market pot?







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Re: [AFMUG] OT I don't get it

2019-08-18 Thread Bill Prince 

  
  
The black market still exists because they made the taxes so
  high. 

The cannabis coming from south of the border does not have the
  same (or any) quality/potency controls.
Yes. They are worried about losing revenue. 

What they don't understand (yet) is if they lower the duty/taxes
  on cannabis, the legal volume will go up and make more revenue.

bp



On 8/18/2019 5:14 PM, Chuck McCown
  wrote:


  
  

  News article about some pot mixed with peppers being
intercepted in San Diego.
   
  Officials said:
  
Not only did they prevent the drugs from reaching our
  community, they also prevented millions of dollars of
  potential profit from making it into the hands of a
  transnational criminal organization."
 
  
  The first half of that does not make any sense to me
because California now has a vested interest in these so
called “drugs” from reaching the community via official
channels.  
   
  The second half seems like it is more about the state
losing the profit?
   
  How is it worth the risk to import pot into a state that
has recreational pot?  Is there a market for black market
pot?

  
  
  

  


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[AFMUG] OT I don't get it

2019-08-18 Thread Chuck McCown 
News article about some pot mixed with peppers being intercepted in San Diego.

Officials said:
  Not only did they prevent the drugs from reaching our community, they also 
prevented millions of dollars of potential profit from making it into the hands 
of a transnational criminal organization."

The first half of that does not make any sense to me because California now has 
a vested interest in these so called “drugs” from reaching the community via 
official channels.  

The second half seems like it is more about the state losing the profit?

How is it worth the risk to import pot into a state that has recreational pot?  
Is there a market for black market pot?-- 
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