Re: [AFMUG] SAS/CBRS Questions
I guess 6 is moot. I thought GAA operated under SAS as well. Is that verified? I guess the better question, having that knowledge, is what recourse is there in GAA? under the N license when we did the webinar with FCC, FCCs response was to contact rick harnish if there was a conflict that couldnt be resolved. in other words, thanks for your 200 bucks. If this is the case, the LTE is pretty much a terrible idea long term anywhere there is more than one provider since it doesnt handle noise well. Do you know if there is a map of where the test deployments are in general? Im assuming NDA type stuff says no. One thing that came up today was the potential of cellco usage in 48, is there going to be prohibited use of consumer grade systems in this band like the Wilson amplifiers? On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 2:55 PM Mark Radabaugh wrote: > Answers (at least the ones I have) are inline. > > On Sep 17, 2019, at 11:30 AM, Steve Jones > wrote: > > I dont know if anybody here is involved in the trial, or knows anyone who > is, or if anybody who is is allowed to answer any of these questions. I get > alot of answers from people not in the trials, its all guesswork though, Id > like to her something definitive. The answers are driving a 100k difference > in product decisions. If any of you degenerates are involved or can > forward to people who are involved, Id give my first born for clear answers > > >1. Are you overlapped with other CBRS/SAS trial operators? > > > No > > >1. Is the overlap same county/neighboring county? > > > Not in a test environment > > >1. What are the SAS controls looking like. EIRP alterations, channel > changes, channel size decreases, etc? > > > The experimental versions of all the SAS’s as far as I am aware were not > actually doing anything other than checking for incumbents. I don’t think > any of them were doing actual RF propagation modeling. > > >1. How often are SAS commands being issued? (constantly, hourly, > daily, weekly, rarely, etc?) > > > The database between the SAS’es only updates once per day. You likely > won’t see updates other than overnight (at least initially). > > >1. Is there any site/POP colocation with other CBRS/SAS trial > operators? > > > Not for us > > >1. Are you able to effectively operate ABAB/ABCD within the band > effectively while overlapping, and in what channel size? > > > We currently do in Part 90z. There is no reason you can’t in CBRS. > > > >1. Have you come across a scenario where your operations were ceased > by SAS? > > > Not so far. > > > >i. Example > being, all CBRS channels in use and a temporary outage occurs, during which > time another operator is granted access to the silent channel. > > > >1. Does SAS impact your operation among your own cells. > > > It’s not supposed to - this is something Winnforum and the SAS’s are > working on. > > >1. Are you able to allow overlap in your own cells that would not be > an option with another operator present on the license region? > > > should be > > >1. Is the predeployment modelling available from any of the SAS >vendors for site planning? > > > There are hooks in the SAS where you can request frequencies, but you > can’t necessarily query what is in use. It’s a stupid security thing the > telcos insisted on. So you can ask “can I have 3550 in 10Mhz” and it will > tell you it’s not in use. And then you can ask about 3560 and it will > tell you. But it won’t answer “What is available”. > > >1. Are there real time tools for monitoring your regional CBRS >environment? >2. How have you dealt with non CBRS/SAS trial operators still >operating under the N license? > > > Just our own stuff > > >1. Has the mechanism for recourse been defined should SAS not resolve >conflicting CBRS operations amongst operators. > > > That question needs clarification. SAS is not supposed to deconflict > GAA, it’s the wild west. > > >1. Is there a tool for obtaining a contact when there is a discrepancy > to self resolve amongst operators? > > > yes > > >1. When operating near a county line, assuming it is PAL operation, >are you able to place a subscriber onto that base station that resides in >the neighboring county? > > > Nothing prevents it as long as that subscriber doesn’t create excessive > interference for the PAL operator. > > >1. If operating in GAA in this environment, does the neighboring > county GAA supersede the ability to install a subscriber to the > neighboring > county base station? If so, how does SAS calculate the Instruction set > to > the base station? > > > The SAS protects PAL’s, not GAA. > > > > > I don’t know if anyone is able to provide any of these answers due to NDA > or not > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com >
Re: [AFMUG] SAS/CBRS Questions
Answers (at least the ones I have) are inline. > On Sep 17, 2019, at 11:30 AM, Steve Jones wrote: > > I dont know if anybody here is involved in the trial, or knows anyone who is, > or if anybody who is is allowed to answer any of these questions. I get alot > of answers from people not in the trials, its all guesswork though, Id like > to her something definitive. The answers are driving a 100k difference in > product decisions. If any of you degenerates are involved or can forward to > people who are involved, Id give my first born for clear answers > > Are you overlapped with other CBRS/SAS trial operators? No > Is the overlap same county/neighboring county? Not in a test environment > What are the SAS controls looking like. EIRP alterations, channel changes, > channel size decreases, etc? The experimental versions of all the SAS’s as far as I am aware were not actually doing anything other than checking for incumbents. I don’t think any of them were doing actual RF propagation modeling. > How often are SAS commands being issued? (constantly, hourly, daily, weekly, > rarely, etc?) The database between the SAS’es only updates once per day. You likely won’t see updates other than overnight (at least initially). > Is there any site/POP colocation with other CBRS/SAS trial operators? Not for us > Are you able to effectively operate ABAB/ABCD within the band effectively > while overlapping, and in what channel size? We currently do in Part 90z. There is no reason you can’t in CBRS. > Have you come across a scenario where your operations were ceased by SAS? Not so far. >i. > Example being, all CBRS channels in use and a temporary outage occurs, during > which time another operator is granted access to the silent channel. > Does SAS impact your operation among your own cells. It’s not supposed to - this is something Winnforum and the SAS’s are working on. > Are you able to allow overlap in your own cells that would not be an option > with another operator present on the license region? should be > Is the predeployment modelling available from any of the SAS vendors for site > planning? There are hooks in the SAS where you can request frequencies, but you can’t necessarily query what is in use. It’s a stupid security thing the telcos insisted on. So you can ask “can I have 3550 in 10Mhz” and it will tell you it’s not in use. And then you can ask about 3560 and it will tell you. But it won’t answer “What is available”. > Are there real time tools for monitoring your regional CBRS environment? > How have you dealt with non CBRS/SAS trial operators still operating under > the N license? Just our own stuff > Has the mechanism for recourse been defined should SAS not resolve > conflicting CBRS operations amongst operators. That question needs clarification. SAS is not supposed to deconflict GAA, it’s the wild west. > Is there a tool for obtaining a contact when there is a discrepancy to self > resolve amongst operators? yes > When operating near a county line, assuming it is PAL operation, are you able > to place a subscriber onto that base station that resides in the neighboring > county? Nothing prevents it as long as that subscriber doesn’t create excessive interference for the PAL operator. > If operating in GAA in this environment, does the neighboring county GAA > supersede the ability to install a subscriber to the neighboring county base > station? If so, how does SAS calculate the Instruction set to the base > station? The SAS protects PAL’s, not GAA. > > I don’t know if anyone is able to provide any of these answers due to NDA or > not > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] SAS/CBRS Questions
thats one of the things im trying to find out, do we have the choice in the matter On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 11:35 AM Adam Moffett wrote: > Could be something like that. or not. > > Telrad engineers advised us during our LTE rollout that we should arrange > that perfect ABCD channel plan and that subscribers should only be > installed to the sector they're intentionally in, even if another sector > was stronger due to terrain/tree/distance. I told them we're not doing > that because we would have literally half as many customers if we > restricted ourselves like that, but maybe AT is willing to make that kind > of sacrifice. > > > On 9/17/2019 12:03 PM, Steve Jones wrote: > > We got a customer who ATT did a cobbled fixed wireless that didnt pan out. > they said when the tech was there, they had to install them to a far site > instead of one that was very close with a good signal. I couldnt figure out > why, but I looked at the guy after The CBRS stuff was clarified and he is > ina different county than the better site, I wonder if their licensing is > similar and thats what the issue was > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 10:49 AM Ken Hohhof wrote: > >> We have 2 tower sites (each with 4 sectors of Cambium 3.65) on County >> Line Rd. I worry about the issue of serving customers across county >> lines. Oh, and PALs are out of the question, one of the counties has much >> higher population and we are only on the far (rural) edge of it. But even >> using GAA, not sure if there is a solution for crossing county lines. What >> really sucks is that the tower with the most subs actually sits a few feet >> into the more populous county. Even if we moved the subscribers in that >> county to another band, would we not be allowed to serve our subscribers on >> the other side of the road? >> >> >> >> Maybe this is not really a problem if counties are mainly an issue for >> PAL licenses. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones >> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 17, 2019 10:31 AM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> *Subject:* [AFMUG] SAS/CBRS Questions >> >> >> >> I dont know if anybody here is involved in the trial, or knows anyone who >> is, or if anybody who is is allowed to answer any of these questions. I get >> alot of answers from people not in the trials, its all guesswork though, Id >> like to her something definitive. The answers are driving a 100k difference >> in product decisions. If any of you degenerates are involved or can >> forward to people who are involved, Id give my first born for clear answers >> >> >> >>1. Are you overlapped with other CBRS/SAS trial operators? >> >> >>1. Is the overlap same county/neighboring county? >> 2. What are the SAS controls looking like. EIRP alterations, >> channel changes, channel size decreases, etc? >> 3. How often are SAS commands being issued? (constantly, hourly, >> daily, weekly, rarely, etc?) >> 4. Is there any site/POP colocation with other CBRS/SAS trial >> operators? >> 5. Are you able to effectively operate ABAB/ABCD within the band >> effectively while overlapping, and in what channel size? >> 6. Have you come across a scenario where your operations were >> ceased by SAS? >> >>i. >> Example >> being, all CBRS channels in use and a temporary outage occurs, during which >> time another operator is granted access to the silent channel. >> >>1. Does SAS impact your operation among your own cells. >> >> >>1. Are you able to allow overlap in your own cells that would not be >> an option with another operator present on the license region? >> >> >>1. Is the predeployment modelling available from any of the SAS >>vendors for site planning? >>2. Are there real time tools for monitoring your regional CBRS >>environment? >>3. How have you dealt with non CBRS/SAS trial operators still >>operating under the N license? >>4. Has the mechanism for recourse been defined should SAS not resolve >>conflicting CBRS operations amongst operators. >> >> >>1. Is there a tool for obtaining a contact when there is a >> discrepancy to self resolve amongst operators? >> >> >>1. When operating near a county line, assuming it is PAL operation, >>are you able to place a subscriber onto that base station that resides in >>the n
Re: [AFMUG] SAS/CBRS Questions
Could be something like that. or not.
Telrad engineers advised us during our LTE rollout that we should
arrange that perfect ABCD channel plan and that subscribers should only
be installed to the sector they're intentionally in, even if another
sector was stronger due to terrain/tree/distance. I told them we're not
doing that because we would have literally half as many customers if we
restricted ourselves like that, but maybe AT is willing to make that
kind of sacrifice.
On 9/17/2019 12:03 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
We got a customer who ATT did a cobbled fixed wireless that didnt pan
out. they said when the tech was there, they had to install them to a
far site instead of one that was very close with a good signal. I
couldnt figure out why, but I looked at the guy after The CBRS stuff
was clarified and he is ina different county than the better site, I
wonder if their licensing is similar and thats what the issue was
On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 10:49 AM Ken Hohhof <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
We have 2 tower sites (each with 4 sectors of Cambium 3.65) on
County Line Rd. I worry about the issue of serving customers
across county lines. Oh, and PALs are out of the question, one
of the counties has much higher population and we are only on the
far (rural) edge of it. But even using GAA, not sure if there is
a solution for crossing county lines. What really sucks is that
the tower with the most subs actually sits a few feet into the
more populous county. Even if we moved the subscribers in that
county to another band, would we not be allowed to serve our
subscribers on the other side of the road?
Maybe this is not really a problem if counties are mainly an issue
for PAL licenses.
*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 17, 2019 10:31 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] SAS/CBRS Questions
I dont know if anybody here is involved in the trial, or knows
anyone who is, or if anybody who is is allowed to answer any of
these questions. I get alot of answers from people not in the
trials, its all guesswork though, Id like to her something
definitive. The answers are driving a 100k difference in product
decisions. If any of you degenerates are involved or can forward
to people who are involved, Id give my first born for clear answers
1. Are you overlapped with other CBRS/SAS trial operators?
1. Is the overlap same county/neighboring county?
2. What are the SAS controls looking like. EIRP alterations,
channel changes, channel size decreases, etc?
3. How often are SAS commands being issued? (constantly,
hourly, daily, weekly, rarely, etc?)
4. Is there any site/POP colocation with other CBRS/SAS trial
operators?
5. Are you able to effectively operate ABAB/ABCD within the
band effectively while overlapping, and in what channel size?
6. Have you come across a scenario where your operations were
ceased by SAS?
i.Example being, all CBRS channels in use and a temporary outage
occurs, during which time another operator is granted access to
the silent channel.
2. Does SAS impact your operation among your own cells.
1. Are you able to allow overlap in your own cells that would
not be an option with another operator present on the
license region?
3. Is the predeployment modelling available from any of the SAS
vendors for site planning?
4. Are there real time tools for monitoring your regional CBRS
environment?
5. How have you dealt with non CBRS/SAS trial operators still
operating under the N license?
6. Has the mechanism for recourse been defined should SAS not
resolve conflicting CBRS operations amongst operators.
1. Is there a tool for obtaining a contact when there is a
discrepancy to self resolve amongst operators?
7. When operating near a county line, assuming it is PAL
operation, are you able to place a subscriber onto that base
station that resides in the neighboring county?
1. If operating in GAA in this environment, does the
neighboring county GAA supersede the ability to install a
subscriber to the neighboring county base station? If so,
how does SAS calculate the Instruction set to the base
station?
I don’t know if anyone is able to provide any of these answers due
to NDA or not
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] SAS/CBRS Questions
We got a customer who ATT did a cobbled fixed wireless that didnt pan out. they said when the tech was there, they had to install them to a far site instead of one that was very close with a good signal. I couldnt figure out why, but I looked at the guy after The CBRS stuff was clarified and he is ina different county than the better site, I wonder if their licensing is similar and thats what the issue was On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 10:49 AM Ken Hohhof wrote: > We have 2 tower sites (each with 4 sectors of Cambium 3.65) on County Line > Rd. I worry about the issue of serving customers across county lines. > Oh, and PALs are out of the question, one of the counties has much higher > population and we are only on the far (rural) edge of it. But even using > GAA, not sure if there is a solution for crossing county lines. What > really sucks is that the tower with the most subs actually sits a few feet > into the more populous county. Even if we moved the subscribers in that > county to another band, would we not be allowed to serve our subscribers on > the other side of the road? > > > > Maybe this is not really a problem if counties are mainly an issue for PAL > licenses. > > > > > > *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 17, 2019 10:31 AM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* [AFMUG] SAS/CBRS Questions > > > > I dont know if anybody here is involved in the trial, or knows anyone who > is, or if anybody who is is allowed to answer any of these questions. I get > alot of answers from people not in the trials, its all guesswork though, Id > like to her something definitive. The answers are driving a 100k difference > in product decisions. If any of you degenerates are involved or can > forward to people who are involved, Id give my first born for clear answers > > > >1. Are you overlapped with other CBRS/SAS trial operators? > > >1. Is the overlap same county/neighboring county? > 2. What are the SAS controls looking like. EIRP alterations, > channel changes, channel size decreases, etc? > 3. How often are SAS commands being issued? (constantly, hourly, > daily, weekly, rarely, etc?) > 4. Is there any site/POP colocation with other CBRS/SAS trial > operators? > 5. Are you able to effectively operate ABAB/ABCD within the band > effectively while overlapping, and in what channel size? > 6. Have you come across a scenario where your operations were > ceased by SAS? > >i. Example > being, all CBRS channels in use and a temporary outage occurs, during which > time another operator is granted access to the silent channel. > >1. Does SAS impact your operation among your own cells. > > >1. Are you able to allow overlap in your own cells that would not be > an option with another operator present on the license region? > > >1. Is the predeployment modelling available from any of the SAS >vendors for site planning? >2. Are there real time tools for monitoring your regional CBRS >environment? >3. How have you dealt with non CBRS/SAS trial operators still >operating under the N license? >4. Has the mechanism for recourse been defined should SAS not resolve >conflicting CBRS operations amongst operators. > > >1. Is there a tool for obtaining a contact when there is a discrepancy > to self resolve amongst operators? > > >1. When operating near a county line, assuming it is PAL operation, >are you able to place a subscriber onto that base station that resides in >the neighboring county? > > >1. If operating in GAA in this environment, does the neighboring > county GAA supersede the ability to install a subscriber to the > neighboring > county base station? If so, how does SAS calculate the Instruction set > to > the base station? > > > > I don’t know if anyone is able to provide any of these answers due to NDA > or not > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] SAS/CBRS Questions
We have 2 tower sites (each with 4 sectors of Cambium 3.65) on County Line Rd. I worry about the issue of serving customers across county lines. Oh, and PALs are out of the question, one of the counties has much higher population and we are only on the far (rural) edge of it. But even using GAA, not sure if there is a solution for crossing county lines. What really sucks is that the tower with the most subs actually sits a few feet into the more populous county. Even if we moved the subscribers in that county to another band, would we not be allowed to serve our subscribers on the other side of the road? Maybe this is not really a problem if counties are mainly an issue for PAL licenses. From: AF On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 10:31 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: [AFMUG] SAS/CBRS Questions I dont know if anybody here is involved in the trial, or knows anyone who is, or if anybody who is is allowed to answer any of these questions. I get alot of answers from people not in the trials, its all guesswork though, Id like to her something definitive. The answers are driving a 100k difference in product decisions. If any of you degenerates are involved or can forward to people who are involved, Id give my first born for clear answers 1. Are you overlapped with other CBRS/SAS trial operators? a. Is the overlap same county/neighboring county? b. What are the SAS controls looking like. EIRP alterations, channel changes, channel size decreases, etc? c. How often are SAS commands being issued? (constantly, hourly, daily, weekly, rarely, etc?) d. Is there any site/POP colocation with other CBRS/SAS trial operators? e. Are you able to effectively operate ABAB/ABCD within the band effectively while overlapping, and in what channel size? f. Have you come across a scenario where your operations were ceased by SAS? i. Example being, all CBRS channels in use and a temporary outage occurs, during which time another operator is granted access to the silent channel. 2. Does SAS impact your operation among your own cells. a. Are you able to allow overlap in your own cells that would not be an option with another operator present on the license region? 3. Is the predeployment modelling available from any of the SAS vendors for site planning? 4. Are there real time tools for monitoring your regional CBRS environment? 5. How have you dealt with non CBRS/SAS trial operators still operating under the N license? 6. Has the mechanism for recourse been defined should SAS not resolve conflicting CBRS operations amongst operators. a. Is there a tool for obtaining a contact when there is a discrepancy to self resolve amongst operators? 7. When operating near a county line, assuming it is PAL operation, are you able to place a subscriber onto that base station that resides in the neighboring county? a. If operating in GAA in this environment, does the neighboring county GAA supersede the ability to install a subscriber to the neighboring county base station? If so, how does SAS calculate the Instruction set to the base station? I don’t know if anyone is able to provide any of these answers due to NDA or not -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] SAS/CBRS Questions
I dont know if anybody here is involved in the trial, or knows anyone who is, or if anybody who is is allowed to answer any of these questions. I get alot of answers from people not in the trials, its all guesswork though, Id like to her something definitive. The answers are driving a 100k difference in product decisions. If any of you degenerates are involved or can forward to people who are involved, Id give my first born for clear answers 1. Are you overlapped with other CBRS/SAS trial operators? 1. Is the overlap same county/neighboring county? 2. What are the SAS controls looking like. EIRP alterations, channel changes, channel size decreases, etc? 3. How often are SAS commands being issued? (constantly, hourly, daily, weekly, rarely, etc?) 4. Is there any site/POP colocation with other CBRS/SAS trial operators? 5. Are you able to effectively operate ABAB/ABCD within the band effectively while overlapping, and in what channel size? 6. Have you come across a scenario where your operations were ceased by SAS? i. Example being, all CBRS channels in use and a temporary outage occurs, during which time another operator is granted access to the silent channel. 1. Does SAS impact your operation among your own cells. 1. Are you able to allow overlap in your own cells that would not be an option with another operator present on the license region? 2. Is the predeployment modelling available from any of the SAS vendors for site planning? 3. Are there real time tools for monitoring your regional CBRS environment? 4. How have you dealt with non CBRS/SAS trial operators still operating under the N license? 5. Has the mechanism for recourse been defined should SAS not resolve conflicting CBRS operations amongst operators. 1. Is there a tool for obtaining a contact when there is a discrepancy to self resolve amongst operators? 6. When operating near a county line, assuming it is PAL operation, are you able to place a subscriber onto that base station that resides in the neighboring county? 1. If operating in GAA in this environment, does the neighboring county GAA supersede the ability to install a subscriber to the neighboring county base station? If so, how does SAS calculate the Instruction set to the base station? I don’t know if anyone is able to provide any of these answers due to NDA or not -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
