subject:"\[AFMUG\] ePMP voltages again \- specifically 2ghz"

But the down side is that a lot of messages don't make it to the list,
because somebody forgets to use reply all... I know this to be true,
because I did it several times just today :P

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018, 5:35 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> The list was changed so that the reply email address was the person that
> sent the message.
>
> This means when (not if because we all know someone here has and will do
> it) someone sets a vacation auto responder it doesn't blast the list.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
>> I don't know if it's how the list is sending out or something that
>> changed with Thunderbird but "reply-list" is now only reply-all for this
>> message, but on the topic of 48v vs 24v there are a lot more solutions in
>> ac-dc for 24v consumer level than 48v.   and when 48v comes up most
>> manufacturers instantly do 4x pricing it seems...
>>
>> On 06/21/2018 01:14 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>
>>> Just think how small of wire you could use with 5K...
>>>
>>> Okay, yeah, there would be some other problems that would kind of make
>>> that not worth it. 48V seems to be a pretty good compromise, there aren't
>>> really any different safety concerns between 24v and 48v, so I don't really
>>> see a good argument for anything less than 48v, other than that it's what
>>> we've been using for years... which isn't really that good of an argument,
>>> when you think about it.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 3:02 PM, >> ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well my solar string inverters are 1K DC.
>>>
>>> Yep, if efficiency is the concern 5K would be good if you are
>>> hauling the energy any distance at all.
>>> Long distance transmission lines go up to 1 MV.
>>>
>>> But safety comes into play at some point.  48 volts is still
>>> considered low voltage, less rules and regs and almost zero shock
>>> hazard.  I cannot feel 48.  Some can.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 1:59 PM
>>> To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>>>
>>>
>>> Ok, 5K volt then..
>>>
>>> On 06/21/2018 11:20 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Higher is always better.
>>>     Wires are smaller.
>>> Everything is more efficient.
>>> Everything runs cooler.
>>> Less voltage drop.
>>> Less power loss in conductors.
>>> Sometimes simplifies the design of the load device.
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:17 PM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Cc:* Mathew Howard ; AFMUG
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>>> In a perfect world it would all be 100% 48v (or hell even 100%
>>> 24v) but the only rule of standards is that there are no
>>> standards.
>>> See XKCD 927 - https://xkcd.com/927/
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>     Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:10 PM, >> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Nice to see the smaller players learning how to put on
>>> their big boy
>>>  pants and join the ranks of carrier grade vendors.
>>>  *From:* Mathew Howard
>>>  *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:08 PM
>>>  *To:* Josh Luthman
>>>  *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AFMUG
>>>  *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically
>>> 2ghz
>>>  Well, MikroTik does have 48v now (the hEX PoE/PowerBox Pro
>>> will take
>>>  up to 57 volts), but it's only one or the other, it doesn't
>>> do any
>>>  voltage conversion. But what I've been doing at some sites
>>> is
>>>  something like using one PowerBox Pro to feed all the 24v
>>> only gear,
>>&g

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

The list was changed so that the reply email address was the person that
sent the message.

This means when (not if because we all know someone here has and will do
it) someone sets a vacation auto responder it doesn't blast the list.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> I don't know if it's how the list is sending out or something that changed
> with Thunderbird but "reply-list" is now only reply-all for this message,
> but on the topic of 48v vs 24v there are a lot more solutions in ac-dc for
> 24v consumer level than 48v.   and when 48v comes up most manufacturers
> instantly do 4x pricing it seems...
>
> On 06/21/2018 01:14 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
>> Just think how small of wire you could use with 5K...
>>
>> Okay, yeah, there would be some other problems that would kind of make
>> that not worth it. 48V seems to be a pretty good compromise, there aren't
>> really any different safety concerns between 24v and 48v, so I don't really
>> see a good argument for anything less than 48v, other than that it's what
>> we've been using for years... which isn't really that good of an argument,
>> when you think about it.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 3:02 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Well my solar string inverters are 1K DC.
>>
>> Yep, if efficiency is the concern 5K would be good if you are
>> hauling the energy any distance at all.
>> Long distance transmission lines go up to 1 MV.
>>
>> But safety comes into play at some point.  48 volts is still
>> considered low voltage, less rules and regs and almost zero shock
>> hazard.  I cannot feel 48.  Some can.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
>> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 1:59 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>>
>>
>> Ok, 5K volt then..
>>
>> On 06/21/2018 11:20 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Higher is always better.
>> Wires are smaller.
>> Everything is more efficient.
>> Everything runs cooler.
>> Less voltage drop.
>>     Less power loss in conductors.
>> Sometimes simplifies the design of the load device.
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:17 PM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>> *Cc:* Mathew Howard ; AFMUG
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>> In a perfect world it would all be 100% 48v (or hell even 100%
>> 24v) but the only rule of standards is that there are no
>> standards.
>> See XKCD 927 - https://xkcd.com/927/
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:10 PM, > <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
>>
>>      Nice to see the smaller players learning how to put on
>> their big boy
>>  pants and join the ranks of carrier grade vendors.
>>  *From:* Mathew Howard
>>  *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:08 PM
>>  *To:* Josh Luthman
>>  *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AFMUG
>>  *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically
>> 2ghz
>>  Well, MikroTik does have 48v now (the hEX PoE/PowerBox Pro
>> will take
>>  up to 57 volts), but it's only one or the other, it doesn't
>> do any
>>  voltage conversion. But what I've been doing at some sites is
>>  something like using one PowerBox Pro to feed all the 24v
>> only gear,
>>  and a second one to feed the 48v gear.
>>  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Josh Luthman
>>  > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
>>
>>  Agreed.
>>  EdgePoint does 48v only but has the outdoor part.
>>  Netonix does 24v and 48v but doesn't have any outdoor
>> capability
>>  (enclosures would have to be ridiculous for the 12 port+)
>>  Mikrotik only has 4 ports and 24v only.
>>
>>  Josh Luthman
>>

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

I don't know if it's how the list is sending out or something that 
changed with Thunderbird but "reply-list" is now only reply-all for this 
message, but on the topic of 48v vs 24v there are a lot more solutions 
in ac-dc for 24v consumer level than 48v.   and when 48v comes up most 
manufacturers instantly do 4x pricing it seems...


On 06/21/2018 01:14 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

Just think how small of wire you could use with 5K...

Okay, yeah, there would be some other problems that would kind of make 
that not worth it. 48V seems to be a pretty good compromise, there 
aren't really any different safety concerns between 24v and 48v, so I 
don't really see a good argument for anything less than 48v, other than 
that it's what we've been using for years... which isn't really that 
good of an argument, when you think about it.


On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 3:02 PM, <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:


Well my solar string inverters are 1K DC.

Yep, if efficiency is the concern 5K would be good if you are
hauling the energy any distance at all.
Long distance transmission lines go up to 1 MV.

But safety comes into play at some point.  48 volts is still
considered low voltage, less rules and regs and almost zero shock
hazard.  I cannot feel 48.  Some can.

-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 1:59 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz


Ok, 5K volt then..

On 06/21/2018 11:20 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Higher is always better.
Wires are smaller.
Everything is more efficient.
Everything runs cooler.
Less voltage drop.
Less power loss in conductors.
Sometimes simplifies the design of the load device.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:17 PM
*To:* Chuck McCown
*Cc:* Mathew Howard ; AFMUG
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
In a perfect world it would all be 100% 48v (or hell even 100%
24v) but the only rule of standards is that there are no standards.
See XKCD 927 - https://xkcd.com/927/
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:10 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

 Nice to see the smaller players learning how to put on
their big boy
 pants and join the ranks of carrier grade vendors.
 *From:* Mathew Howard
 *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:08 PM
 *To:* Josh Luthman
 *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AFMUG
     *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
 Well, MikroTik does have 48v now (the hEX PoE/PowerBox Pro
will take
 up to 57 volts), but it's only one or the other, it doesn't
do any
 voltage conversion. But what I've been doing at some sites is
 something like using one PowerBox Pro to feed all the 24v
only gear,
 and a second one to feed the 48v gear.
 On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Josh Luthman
 mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:

 Agreed.
 EdgePoint does 48v only but has the outdoor part.
 Netonix does 24v and 48v but doesn't have any outdoor
capability
 (enclosures would have to be ridiculous for the 12 port+)
 Mikrotik only has 4 ports and 24v only.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St


<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>>
 Suite 1337


<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>>
 Troy, OH 45373


<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>>

 On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Mathew Howard
 mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

 Yeah, that's the easiest compromise at this point.
 What I'd like, is a box that I can connect a power
supply to
 (whether that's 48v, or 24v, I don't care) that
gives my a
 48v and a 24v output, and has another connection for
 batteries and it deals with

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

2018-06-21 Thread Adam Moffett

I think there's some truth to that.  There are real reasons for phone 
lines to run at -48V, and they've been doing so for a long time.  So the 
logical assumption from a manufacturer would be that a -48v device is 
for a phone company.  A phone company needs reliability and probably has 
the money to pay for it, so the price has two reasons to go up: once to 
pay for the reliability, and again because they know the buyer has big 
pockets.


The reason for people who aren't phone companies to run -48v is that 
they want to access the ecosystem of power products that was made for 
phone companies.  And yeah, I think you do pay more to play in the -48v 
sandbox.


-Adam



-- Original Message --
From: "Robert Andrews" 
To: af@af.afmug.com
Sent: 6/21/2018 3:55:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

Oh..   the "Real Telecom Players"...   vs all those that have provided 
internet all over the place that the "Real Telecom Players" thumbed 
their noses at...   Sorry that concept doesn't mean sweet thoughts to 
me...   But yes 48V is the sweet spot, I just can't get behind -48v... 
Even when  scienceTo me it just means a way to jack prices...


On 06/21/2018 10:59 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

It was always 48 for the real telecom players.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:52 AM
*To:* Mathew Howard
*Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AFMUG
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
It was 48v
Then it was mostly 24v
Now it's going 48v
Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.
I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my problem in 2 minutes 
than start changing things to 48v which would blow so much stuff up 
(epmp non gps, ubnt M gear, half the Mikrotiks)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Mathew Howard  
wrote:


   No, there's not really a good reason, it just means you have an
   extra part to deal with.
   We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but those are the only
   radios that won't run off 48v on most of our new sites, so I've 
done

   some that are 48v only and just use those things on the radios that
   need them. But if you have more than 1 or 2 things that need 24v,
   it's generally more practical to just use a bigger voltage 
converter

   and run multiple radios off it.
   On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM,  wrote:

   Yep, that was what I was thinking.
   So, looks to me like there is no reason not to do 48 volts.
   *From:* Mathew Howard
   *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:56 AM
   *To:* Chuck McCown
   *Cc:* Dave ; AFMUG
   *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
   You mean like this?
https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/
   <https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/>
   Or do you have something better in mind?
   On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM,  wrote:

   Me too...
   So, what appetite is there for an inline POE regulator that
   would convert 48 to 24?
   *From:* Mathew Howard
   *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:50 AM
   *To:* Dave
   *Cc:* AFMUG
   *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 
2ghz

   ugh... I keep forgetting to use reply-to-all...
   Not every single UBNT radio... all the airfibers will
   happily take 48v. Mikrotik is finally starting to make most
   of the new stuff handle 48v (including the PowerBox Pro),
   but yeah. UBNT is the reason I still have to use 24v on 
most

   of our towers... they make a converter you can stick on in
   line with the radios, but that's kind of a pain if you have
   more than one or two, and it's an extra part to fail.
   On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Dave 


   wrote:

   They make dental floss for that  :)


   On 06/21/2018 11:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

   Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of
   Mikrotiks
   Josh Luthman
   Office: 937-552-2340
   Direct: 937-552-2343
   1100 Wayne St
   
<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+%0D%0A45373=gmail=g>

   Suite 1337
   
<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+%0D%0A45373=gmail=g>

   Troy, OH 45373
   
<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+%0D%0A++Wayne+St+Suite+%0D%0A++1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>

   On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird
wrote:

   I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V. 
 :)

   On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman
wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

They'll either work or they won't on 24v - you won't get reduced power out
of them, or anything like that (although sometimes you can temporarily fix
voltage related issues by turning the TX power down).
The kind of issues that you'll see with ePMP's on too low of voltage are
going to be things like the AP randomly rebooting, or not powering up at
all.

All ePMP GPS radios will run on 48v, whether they be 2.4ghz or 5ghz (and
the ePMP 2000 will only run on 5ghz), and no ePMP non-GPS radios will run
on 48v (they're all 30v max, but they'll also run on lower voltage than the
GPS units).

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:56 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller  wrote:

>
> 4 2.4 epmp access points with about 20 feet of cable on top of a firetower.
> they are all gps.
>
>  did i not just read somewhere here the gps 2.4 epmp access points were
> 48v?
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *To:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
> *Cc:* Josh Baird  ; AFMUG 
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 2:47 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>
> What exactly are you powering?
>
> Epmp comes with a 24v poe and if you've got say 100 feetish? you're at 23
> volts..that's minimum boot for warm weather.  If it loses power in cold
> (20F?) it won't come back on until it warms up.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 3:45 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> so - theoretically if i'm powering with 24v and i need to be powering
>> with 48v, what kind of trouble am i in?
>> are my radios putting out a fraction of the power they should be?
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
>> *To:* Josh Baird  ; Josh Luthman
>> 
>> *Cc:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 1:30 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>>
>>
>> hm.  i guess i better follow this closely.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Josh Baird 
>> *To:* Josh Luthman 
>> *Cc:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:51 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>>
>> All UBNT devices that we use are 48V (AF) and all MT devices that we use
>> are also 48V now.  You could always throw a small PoE switch (Netonix or
>> whatever) that can do both 24V and 48V.  I realize this may not be the most
>> convenient thing for you to do..
>>
>> I'm just saying - a lot of our problems with ePMP went away when we
>> switched to 48V.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>> Suite 1337
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs.  The 5 GHz
>>>>> is just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are
>>>>> getting 23 volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?
>>>>>
>>>>> Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5 ghz) and
>>>>> the other doesn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>> Suite 1337
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz


My problem with Netonix outdoors ( and we are using them there ) is

FANS

On 06/21/2018 11:38 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

Enclosures don't have to be -that- ridiculous for the 12 ports.

A couple of examples:









On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:02 PM, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


Agreed.

EdgePoint does 48v only but has the outdoor part.
Netonix does 24v and 48v but doesn't have any outdoor capability
(enclosures would have to be ridiculous for the 12 port+)
Mikrotik only has 4 ports and 24v only.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yeah, that's the easiest compromise at this point.

What I'd like, is a box that I can connect a power supply to
(whether that's 48v, or 24v, I don't care) that gives my a 48v
and a 24v output, and has another connection for batteries and
it deals with feeding the batteries the correct voltages and
current. Whether that's 12v, 24v or 48v batteries, I don't
really care... although I'd prefer 12v or 24v so can use a
smaller number of bigger batteries, if I want to.

Ideally, Forrest would build this, so I could just plug it into
the SiteMonitors that are already there, and be able to monitor
and control it as well.

Of course I can buy all the parts separately to do the same
thing, but having a pre-built box to do the job would be a lot
cleaner.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Josh Luthman
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:

It was 48v
Then it was mostly 24v
Now it's going 48v
Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.

I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my problem in
2 minutes than start changing things to 48v which would blow
so much stuff up (epmp non gps, ubnt M gear, half the Mikrotiks)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Suite 1337

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Troy, OH 45373

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Mathew Howard
mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

No, there's not really a good reason, it just means you
have an extra part to deal with.

We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but those are
the only radios that won't run off 48v on most of our
new sites, so I've done some that are 48v only and just
use those things on the radios that need them. But if
you have more than 1 or 2 things that need 24v, it's
generally more practical to just use a bigger voltage
converter and run multiple radios off it.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Yep, that was what I was thinking.
So, looks to me like there is no reason not to do 48
volts.
*From:* Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:56 AM
*To:* Chuck McCown
*Cc:* Dave ; AFMUG
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again -
specifically 2ghz
You mean like this?
https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/
<https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/>
Or do you have something better in mind?
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM, 
wrote:

Me too...
So, what appetite is there for an inline POE
regulator that would convert 48 to 24?
*From:* Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:50 AM
*To:* Dave
    *Cc:* AFMUG
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again -
specifically 2ghz
ugh... I keep forgetting to use reply-to-all...
Not every single UBNT radio... all the airfibers
will happily take 48v. Mikrotik is finally
starting to make most of the new stuff handle
48v (including the PowerBox Pro), but yeah. UBNT

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz


Ok, 5K volt then..

On 06/21/2018 11:20 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Higher is always better.
Wires are smaller.
Everything is more efficient.
Everything runs cooler.
Less voltage drop.
Less power loss in conductors.
Sometimes simplifies the design of the load device.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:17 PM
*To:* Chuck McCown
*Cc:* Mathew Howard ; AFMUG
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
In a perfect world it would all be 100% 48v (or hell even 100% 24v) but 
the only rule of standards is that there are no standards.

See XKCD 927 - https://xkcd.com/927/
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:

Nice to see the smaller players learning how to put on their big boy
pants and join the ranks of carrier grade vendors.
*From:* Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:08 PM
*To:* Josh Luthman
*Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AFMUG
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
Well, MikroTik does have 48v now (the hEX PoE/PowerBox Pro will take
up to 57 volts), but it's only one or the other, it doesn't do any
voltage conversion. But what I've been doing at some sites is
something like using one PowerBox Pro to feed all the 24v only gear,
and a second one to feed the 48v gear.
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:

Agreed.
EdgePoint does 48v only but has the outdoor part.
Netonix does 24v and 48v but doesn't have any outdoor capability
(enclosures would have to be ridiculous for the 12 port+)
Mikrotik only has 4 ports and 24v only.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Suite 1337

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Troy, OH 45373

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Mathew Howard
 wrote:

Yeah, that's the easiest compromise at this point.
What I'd like, is a box that I can connect a power supply to
(whether that's 48v, or 24v, I don't care) that gives my a
48v and a 24v output, and has another connection for
batteries and it deals with feeding the batteries the
correct voltages and current. Whether that's 12v, 24v or 48v
batteries, I don't really care... although I'd prefer 12v or
24v so can use a smaller number of bigger batteries, if I
want to.
Ideally, Forrest would build this, so I could just plug it
into the SiteMonitors that are already there, and be able to
monitor and control it as well.
Of course I can buy all the parts separately to do the same
thing, but having a pre-built box to do the job would be a
lot cleaner.
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:

It was 48v
Then it was mostly 24v
Now it's going 48v
Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.
I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my
problem in 2 minutes than start changing things to 48v
which would blow so much stuff up (epmp non gps, ubnt M
gear, half the Mikrotiks)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Suite 1337

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Troy, OH 45373

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Mathew Howard
 wrote:

No, there's not really a good reason, it just means
you have an extra part to deal with.
We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but those
are the only radios that won't run off 48v on most
of our new sites, so I've done some that are 48v
only and just use those things on the radios that
need them. But if you have more than 1 or 2 things
that need 24v, it's generally more practical to just
use a bigger voltage converter and run multiple
radios off it.
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM, 
wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

I think that's more that MT likes solar compatibility than playing with 
the "Big Boys"...


On 06/21/2018 11:10 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Nice to see the smaller players learning how to put on their big boy 
pants and join the ranks of carrier grade vendors.

*From:* Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:08 PM
*To:* Josh Luthman
*Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AFMUG
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
Well, MikroTik does have 48v now (the hEX PoE/PowerBox Pro will take up 
to 57 volts), but it's only one or the other, it doesn't do any voltage 
conversion. But what I've been doing at some sites is something like 
using one PowerBox Pro to feed all the 24v only gear, and a second one 
to feed the 48v gear.
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:


Agreed.
EdgePoint does 48v only but has the outdoor part.
Netonix does 24v and 48v but doesn't have any outdoor capability
(enclosures would have to be ridiculous for the 12 port+)
Mikrotik only has 4 ports and 24v only.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Suite 1337

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Troy, OH 45373

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Mathew Howard
 wrote:

Yeah, that's the easiest compromise at this point.
What I'd like, is a box that I can connect a power supply to
(whether that's 48v, or 24v, I don't care) that gives my a 48v
and a 24v output, and has another connection for batteries and
it deals with feeding the batteries the correct voltages and
current. Whether that's 12v, 24v or 48v batteries, I don't
really care... although I'd prefer 12v or 24v so can use a
smaller number of bigger batteries, if I want to.
Ideally, Forrest would build this, so I could just plug it into
the SiteMonitors that are already there, and be able to monitor
and control it as well.
Of course I can buy all the parts separately to do the same
thing, but having a pre-built box to do the job would be a lot
cleaner.
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:

It was 48v
Then it was mostly 24v
Now it's going 48v
Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.
I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my problem in
2 minutes than start changing things to 48v which would blow
so much stuff up (epmp non gps, ubnt M gear, half the Mikrotiks)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Suite 1337

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
Troy, OH 45373

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Mathew Howard
 wrote:

No, there's not really a good reason, it just means you
have an extra part to deal with.
We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but those are
the only radios that won't run off 48v on most of our
new sites, so I've done some that are 48v only and just
use those things on the radios that need them. But if
you have more than 1 or 2 things that need 24v, it's
generally more practical to just use a bigger voltage
converter and run multiple radios off it.
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM,  wrote:

Yep, that was what I was thinking.
So, looks to me like there is no reason not to do 48
volts.
*From:* Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:56 AM
*To:* Chuck McCown
*Cc:* Dave ; AFMUG
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again -
specifically 2ghz
You mean like this?
https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/
<https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/>
Or do you have something better in mind?
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM, 
wrote:

Me too...
So, what appetite is there for an inline POE
regulator that would convert 48 to 24?
*From:* Mathew H

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

4 2.4 epmp access points with about 20 feet of cable on top of a firetower.
they are all gps.

 did i not just read somewhere here the gps 2.4 epmp access points were 48v?

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: CBB - Jay Fuller 
  Cc: Josh Baird ; AFMUG 
  Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 2:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

  What exactly are you powering?

  Epmp comes with a 24v poe and if you've got say 100 feetish? you're at 23 
volts..that's minimum boot for warm weather.  If it loses power in cold (20F?) 
it won't come back on until it warms up.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 3:45 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller  
wrote:

so - theoretically if i'm powering with 24v and i need to be powering with 
48v, what kind of trouble am i in?
are my radios putting out a fraction of the power they should be?

  - Original Message - 
  From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
  To: Josh Baird ; Josh Luthman 
  Cc: af@af.afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 1:30 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

  hm.  i guess i better follow this closely.

- Original Message - 
From: Josh Baird 
To: Josh Luthman 
Cc: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

All UBNT devices that we use are 48V (AF) and all MT devices that we 
use are also 48V now.  You could always throw a small PoE switch (Netonix or 
whatever) that can do both 24V and 48V.  I realize this may not be the most 
convenient thing for you to do.. 

I'm just saying - a lot of our problems with ePMP went away when we 
switched to 48V.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

  Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird  
wrote:

I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

  I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs.  The 5 
GHz is just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are 
getting 23 volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).

  Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?

  Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5 
ghz) and the other doesn't.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  -- 
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  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

Oh.. the "Real Telecom Players"... vs all those that have provided
internet all over the place that the "Real Telecom Players" thumbed
their noses at... Sorry that concept doesn't mean sweet thoughts to
me... But yes 48V is the sweet spot, I just can't get behind -48v...
Even when scienceTo me it just means a way to jack prices...

On 06/21/2018 10:59 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

It was always 48 for the real telecom players.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:52 AM
*To:* Mathew Howard
*Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AFMUG
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
It was 48v
Then it was mostly 24v
Now it's going 48v
Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.
I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my problem in 2 minutes
than start changing things to 48v which would blow so much stuff up
(epmp non gps, ubnt M gear, half the Mikrotiks)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

No, there's not really a good reason, it just means you have an
extra part to deal with.
We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but those are the only
radios that won't run off 48v on most of our new sites, so I've done
some that are 48v only and just use those things on the radios that
need them. But if you have more than 1 or 2 things that need 24v,
it's generally more practical to just use a bigger voltage converter
and run multiple radios off it.
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM, wrote:

Yep, that was what I was thinking.
So, looks to me like there is no reason not to do 48 volts.
*From:* Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:56 AM
*To:* Chuck McCown
*Cc:* Dave ; AFMUG
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
You mean like this?
https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/
<https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/>
Or do you have something better in mind?
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM, wrote:

Me too...
So, what appetite is there for an inline POE regulator that
would convert 48 to 24?
*From:* Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:50 AM
*To:* Dave
*Cc:* AFMUG
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
ugh... I keep forgetting to use reply-to-all...
Not every single UBNT radio... all the airfibers will
happily take 48v. Mikrotik is finally starting to make most
of the new stuff handle 48v (including the PowerBox Pro),
but yeah. UBNT is the reason I still have to use 24v on most
of our towers... they make a converter you can stick on in
line with the radios, but that's kind of a pain if you have
more than one or two, and it's an extra part to fail.
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Dave
wrote:

They make dental floss for that :)

On 06/21/2018 11:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of
Mikrotiks
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+%0D%0A45373=gmail=g>
Suite 1337

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+%0D%0A45373=gmail=g>
Troy, OH 45373

<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+%0D%0A++Wayne+St+Suite+%0D%0A++1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird
wrote:

I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V. :)
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman
wrote:

I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up
two epmp APs. The 5 GHz is just fine but the
2 GHz is saying current too low. Both ports
are getting 23 volts and the cables are <10
feet (from the Powerbox Pro).
Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more
voltage possibly?
Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's
weird one powers (5 ghz) and the other doesn't.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St

<https://maps.google.com/

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

What exactly are you powering?

Epmp comes with a 24v poe and if you've got say 100 feetish? you're at 23
volts..that's minimum boot for warm weather.  If it loses power in cold
(20F?) it won't come back on until it warms up.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 3:45 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller  wrote:

>
> so - theoretically if i'm powering with 24v and i need to be powering with
> 48v, what kind of trouble am i in?
> are my radios putting out a fraction of the power they should be?
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
> *To:* Josh Baird  ; Josh Luthman
> 
> *Cc:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 1:30 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>
>
> hm.  i guess i better follow this closely.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Josh Baird 
> *To:* Josh Luthman 
> *Cc:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:51 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>
> All UBNT devices that we use are 48V (AF) and all MT devices that we use
> are also 48V now.  You could always throw a small PoE switch (Netonix or
> whatever) that can do both 24V and 48V.  I realize this may not be the most
> convenient thing for you to do..
>
> I'm just saying - a lot of our problems with ePMP went away when we
> switched to 48V.
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
>> Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>> Suite 1337
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>>> I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs.  The 5 GHz
>>>> is just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are
>>>> getting 23 volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?
>>>>
>>>> Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5 ghz) and
>>>> the other doesn't.
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>> Suite 1337
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
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>
>
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AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

so - theoretically if i'm powering with 24v and i need to be powering with 48v, 
what kind of trouble am i in?
are my radios putting out a fraction of the power they should be?

  - Original Message - 
  From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
  To: Josh Baird ; Josh Luthman 
  Cc: af@af.afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 1:30 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

  hm.  i guess i better follow this closely.

- Original Message - 
From: Josh Baird 
To: Josh Luthman 
Cc: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

All UBNT devices that we use are 48V (AF) and all MT devices that we use 
are also 48V now.  You could always throw a small PoE switch (Netonix or 
whatever) that can do both 24V and 48V.  I realize this may not be the most 
convenient thing for you to do.. 

I'm just saying - a lot of our problems with ePMP went away when we 
switched to 48V.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

  Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:

I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

  I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs.  The 5 GHz 
is just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are getting 
23 volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).

  Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?

  Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5 ghz) 
and the other doesn't.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

Netonix is perfect with the exception you can't really put them outdoors or
in a reasonably sized enclosure.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:29 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller  wrote:

>
> so, i'm 99% sure we use a netonix to power ours and they're 24 v
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *To:* Josh Baird 
> *Cc:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:39 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>
> Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+%0D%0A++45373=gmail=g>
> Suite 1337
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+%0D%0A++45373=gmail=g>
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs.  The 5 GHz is
>>> just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are getting
>>> 23 volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).
>>>
>>> Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?
>>>
>>> Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5 ghz) and
>>> the other doesn't.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>> Suite 1337
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>
> --
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

we use quite a few of the 8 port netonix.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: Mathew Howard 
  Cc: AFMUG 
  Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 1:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

  Agreed.

  EdgePoint does 48v only but has the outdoor part.
  Netonix does 24v and 48v but doesn't have any outdoor capability (enclosures 
would have to be ridiculous for the 12 port+)
  Mikrotik only has 4 ports and 24v only.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

Yeah, that's the easiest compromise at this point.

What I'd like, is a box that I can connect a power supply to (whether 
that's 48v, or 24v, I don't care) that gives my a 48v and a 24v output, and has 
another connection for batteries and it deals with feeding the batteries the 
correct voltages and current. Whether that's 12v, 24v or 48v batteries, I don't 
really care... although I'd prefer 12v or 24v so can use a smaller number of 
bigger batteries, if I want to.

Ideally, Forrest would build this, so I could just plug it into the 
SiteMonitors that are already there, and be able to monitor and control it as 
well.

Of course I can buy all the parts separately to do the same thing, but 
having a pre-built box to do the job would be a lot cleaner.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

  It was 48v 
  Then it was mostly 24v
  Now it's going 48v
  Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.

  I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my problem in 2 minutes 
than start changing things to 48v which would blow so much stuff up (epmp non 
gps, ubnt M gear, half the Mikrotiks)

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Mathew Howard  
wrote:

No, there's not really a good reason, it just means you have an extra 
part to deal with.

We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but those are the only radios 
that won't run off 48v on most of our new sites, so I've done some that are 48v 
only and just use those things on the radios that need them. But if you have 
more than 1 or 2 things that need 24v, it's generally more practical to just 
use a bigger voltage converter and run multiple radios off it.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM,  wrote:

  Yep, that was what I was thinking.
  So, looks to me like there is no reason not to do 48 volts.  

  From: Mathew Howard 
  Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:56 AM
  To: Chuck McCown 
  Cc: Dave ; AFMUG 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

  You mean like this? 

  https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/

  Or do you have something better in mind?

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM,  wrote:

Me too...
So, what appetite is there for an inline POE regulator that would 
convert 48 to 24?

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:50 AM
To: Dave 
Cc: AFMUG 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

ugh... I keep forgetting to use reply-to-all...

Not every single UBNT radio... all the airfibers will happily take 
48v. Mikrotik is finally starting to make most of the new stuff handle 48v 
(including the PowerBox Pro), but yeah. UBNT is the reason I still have to use 
24v on most of our towers... they make a converter you can stick on in line 
with the radios, but that's kind of a pain if you have more than one or two, 
and it's an extra part to fail.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Dave  wrote:

  They make dental floss for that  :)

  On 06/21/2018 11:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of 
Mikrotiks

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird 
 wrote:

  I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs.  
The 5 GHz is just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are 
getting 23 volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).

Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?

Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers 
(5 ghz) and the other does

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

True, at this point there's enough stuff that's 24v or 48v, or 48v, that I
think it's best to just start moving to 48v for everything.

The only stuff that we're still using on towers that won't run on 48v is
non-airfiber UBNT radios (which is getting less common for us anyway), and
a few models of Mikrotiks (the 3011, specifically... there's not a good
alternative for those yet), but I can deal with voltage converters for that
stuff.


On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:20 PM,  wrote:

> Higher is always better.
>
> Wires are smaller.
> Everything is more efficient.
> Everything runs cooler.
> Less voltage drop.
> Less power loss in conductors.
> Sometimes simplifies the design of the load device.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:17 PM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Cc:* Mathew Howard ; AFMUG
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>
> In a perfect world it would all be 100% 48v (or hell even 100% 24v) but
> the only rule of standards is that there are no standards.
>
> See XKCD 927 - https://xkcd.com/927/
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
> Suite 1337
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
> Troy, OH 45373
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Nice to see the smaller players learning how to put on their big boy
>> pants and join the ranks of carrier grade vendors.
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:08 PM
>> *To:* Josh Luthman
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AFMUG
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>>
>> Well, MikroTik does have 48v now (the hEX PoE/PowerBox Pro will take up
>> to 57 volts), but it's only one or the other, it doesn't do any voltage
>> conversion. But what I've been doing at some sites is something like using
>> one PowerBox Pro to feed all the 24v only gear, and a second one to feed
>> the 48v gear.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed.
>>>
>>> EdgePoint does 48v only but has the outdoor part.
>>> Netonix does 24v and 48v but doesn't have any outdoor capability
>>> (enclosures would have to be ridiculous for the 12 port+)
>>> Mikrotik only has 4 ports and 24v only.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>> Suite 1337
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Mathew Howard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah, that's the easiest compromise at this point.
>>>>
>>>> What I'd like, is a box that I can connect a power supply to (whether
>>>> that's 48v, or 24v, I don't care) that gives my a 48v and a 24v output, and
>>>> has another connection for batteries and it deals with feeding the
>>>> batteries the correct voltages and current. Whether that's 12v, 24v or 48v
>>>> batteries, I don't really care... although I'd prefer 12v or 24v so can use
>>>> a smaller number of bigger batteries, if I want to.
>>>>
>>>> Ideally, Forrest would build this, so I could just plug it into the
>>>> SiteMonitors that are already there, and be able to monitor and control it
>>>> as well.
>>>>
>>>> Of course I can buy all the parts separately to do the same thing, but
>>>> having a pre-built box to do the job would be a lot cleaner.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It was 48v
>>>>> Then it was mostly 24v
>>>>> Now it's going 48v
>>>>> Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my problem in 2 minutes
>>>>> than start changing things to 48v which would blow so much stuff up (epmp
>>>>> non gps, ubnt M gear, half the Mikrotiks)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>&

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

so, i'm 99% sure we use a netonix to power ours and they're 24 v

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: Josh Baird 
  Cc: af@af.afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:39 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

  Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:

I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

  I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs.  The 5 GHz is 
just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are getting 23 
volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).

  Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?

  Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5 ghz) and 
the other doesn't.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

Higher is always better.

Wires are smaller.
Everything is more efficient.
Everything runs cooler.
Less voltage drop.
Less power loss in conductors.  
Sometimes simplifies the design of the load device. 

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:17 PM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: Mathew Howard ; AFMUG 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

In a perfect world it would all be 100% 48v (or hell even 100% 24v) but the 
only rule of standards is that there are no standards. 

See XKCD 927 - https://xkcd.com/927/


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:

  Nice to see the smaller players learning how to put on their big boy pants 
and join the ranks of carrier grade vendors.  

  From: Mathew Howard 
  Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:08 PM
  To: Josh Luthman 
  Cc: Chuck McCown ; AFMUG 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

  Well, MikroTik does have 48v now (the hEX PoE/PowerBox Pro will take up to 57 
volts), but it's only one or the other, it doesn't do any voltage conversion. 
But what I've been doing at some sites is something like using one PowerBox Pro 
to feed all the 24v only gear, and a second one to feed the 48v gear. 


  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

Agreed. 

EdgePoint does 48v only but has the outdoor part.
Netonix does 24v and 48v but doesn't have any outdoor capability 
(enclosures would have to be ridiculous for the 12 port+)
Mikrotik only has 4 ports and 24v only.



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

  Yeah, that's the easiest compromise at this point.

  What I'd like, is a box that I can connect a power supply to (whether 
that's 48v, or 24v, I don't care) that gives my a 48v and a 24v output, and has 
another connection for batteries and it deals with feeding the batteries the 
correct voltages and current. Whether that's 12v, 24v or 48v batteries, I don't 
really care... although I'd prefer 12v or 24v so can use a smaller number of 
bigger batteries, if I want to.

  Ideally, Forrest would build this, so I could just plug it into the 
SiteMonitors that are already there, and be able to monitor and control it as 
well.

  Of course I can buy all the parts separately to do the same thing, but 
having a pre-built box to do the job would be a lot cleaner.


  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

It was 48v  
Then it was mostly 24v
Now it's going 48v
Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.

I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my problem in 2 minutes 
than start changing things to 48v which would blow so much stuff up (epmp non 
gps, ubnt M gear, half the Mikrotiks)



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Mathew Howard  
wrote:

  No, there's not really a good reason, it just means you have an extra 
part to deal with.

  We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but those are the only radios 
that won't run off 48v on most of our new sites, so I've done some that are 48v 
only and just use those things on the radios that need them. But if you have 
more than 1 or 2 things that need 24v, it's generally more practical to just 
use a bigger voltage converter and run multiple radios off it.


  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM,  wrote:

Yep, that was what I was thinking.
So, looks to me like there is no reason not to do 48 volts.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:56 AM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: Dave ; AFMUG 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

You mean like this? 

https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/

Or do you have something better in mind?


On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM,  wrote:

  Me too...
  So, what appetite is there for an inline POE regulator that would 
convert 48 to 24?


  From: Mathew Howard 
  Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:50 AM
  To: Dave 
  Cc: AFMUG 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

  ugh... I keep forgetting to use reply-to-all...

  Not every single UBNT radio... all the airfibers will happily 
take 48v. Mikrotik is finally starting to make most of the new stuff handle 48v 
(including the PowerBox Pro), but yeah. UBNT is the reason I still have to use 
24v on most of our towers... they make a converter you can stick on in line

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

Well, you just take one of those UBNT things I posted earlier, plug that
into one of the ports on the 48v PowerBox, then you plug that into the PoE
in on the second PowerBox...

(Don't do that. Bad things will happen)

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:16 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> That would be really nice if we didn't have to run two power sources up
> the tower...
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
> Suite 1337
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
> Troy, OH 45373
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> Well, MikroTik does have 48v now (the hEX PoE/PowerBox Pro will take up
>> to 57 volts), but it's only one or the other, it doesn't do any voltage
>> conversion. But what I've been doing at some sites is something like using
>> one PowerBox Pro to feed all the 24v only gear, and a second one to feed
>> the 48v gear.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed.
>>>
>>> EdgePoint does 48v only but has the outdoor part.
>>> Netonix does 24v and 48v but doesn't have any outdoor capability
>>> (enclosures would have to be ridiculous for the 12 port+)
>>> Mikrotik only has 4 ports and 24v only.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>> Suite 1337
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Mathew Howard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah, that's the easiest compromise at this point.
>>>>
>>>> What I'd like, is a box that I can connect a power supply to (whether
>>>> that's 48v, or 24v, I don't care) that gives my a 48v and a 24v output, and
>>>> has another connection for batteries and it deals with feeding the
>>>> batteries the correct voltages and current. Whether that's 12v, 24v or 48v
>>>> batteries, I don't really care... although I'd prefer 12v or 24v so can use
>>>> a smaller number of bigger batteries, if I want to.
>>>>
>>>> Ideally, Forrest would build this, so I could just plug it into the
>>>> SiteMonitors that are already there, and be able to monitor and control it
>>>> as well.
>>>>
>>>> Of course I can buy all the parts separately to do the same thing, but
>>>> having a pre-built box to do the job would be a lot cleaner.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It was 48v
>>>>> Then it was mostly 24v
>>>>> Now it's going 48v
>>>>> Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my problem in 2 minutes
>>>>> than start changing things to 48v which would blow so much stuff up (epmp
>>>>> non gps, ubnt M gear, half the Mikrotiks)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>> Suite 1337
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Mathew Howard 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> No, there's not really a good reason, it just means you have an extra
>>>>>> part to deal with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but those are the only radios
>>>>>> that won't run off 48v on most of our new sites, so I've done some that 
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> 48v only and just use those things

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

In a perfect world it would all be 100% 48v (or hell even 100% 24v) but the
only rule of standards is that there are no standards.

See XKCD 927 - https://xkcd.com/927/


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:

> Nice to see the smaller players learning how to put on their big boy pants
> and join the ranks of carrier grade vendors.
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:08 PM
> *To:* Josh Luthman
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AFMUG
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>
> Well, MikroTik does have 48v now (the hEX PoE/PowerBox Pro will take up to
> 57 volts), but it's only one or the other, it doesn't do any voltage
> conversion. But what I've been doing at some sites is something like using
> one PowerBox Pro to feed all the 24v only gear, and a second one to feed
> the 48v gear.
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> EdgePoint does 48v only but has the outdoor part.
>> Netonix does 24v and 48v but doesn't have any outdoor capability
>> (enclosures would have to be ridiculous for the 12 port+)
>> Mikrotik only has 4 ports and 24v only.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>> Suite 1337
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, that's the easiest compromise at this point.
>>>
>>> What I'd like, is a box that I can connect a power supply to (whether
>>> that's 48v, or 24v, I don't care) that gives my a 48v and a 24v output, and
>>> has another connection for batteries and it deals with feeding the
>>> batteries the correct voltages and current. Whether that's 12v, 24v or 48v
>>> batteries, I don't really care... although I'd prefer 12v or 24v so can use
>>> a smaller number of bigger batteries, if I want to.
>>>
>>> Ideally, Forrest would build this, so I could just plug it into the
>>> SiteMonitors that are already there, and be able to monitor and control it
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> Of course I can buy all the parts separately to do the same thing, but
>>> having a pre-built box to do the job would be a lot cleaner.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It was 48v
>>>> Then it was mostly 24v
>>>> Now it's going 48v
>>>> Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.
>>>>
>>>> I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my problem in 2 minutes
>>>> than start changing things to 48v which would blow so much stuff up (epmp
>>>> non gps, ubnt M gear, half the Mikrotiks)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>> Suite 1337
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Mathew Howard 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No, there's not really a good reason, it just means you have an extra
>>>>> part to deal with.
>>>>>
>>>>> We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but those are the only radios
>>>>> that won't run off 48v on most of our new sites, so I've done some that 
>>>>> are
>>>>> 48v only and just use those things on the radios that need them. But if 
>>>>> you
>>>>> have more than 1 or 2 things that need 24v, it's generally more practical
>>>>> to just use a bigger voltage converter and run multiple radios off it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM,  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep, that was what I was thinking.
>>>>>> So, looks to me like there is no reason not to do 48 volts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>&g

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

That would be really nice if we didn't have to run two power sources up the
tower...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Well, MikroTik does have 48v now (the hEX PoE/PowerBox Pro will take up to
> 57 volts), but it's only one or the other, it doesn't do any voltage
> conversion. But what I've been doing at some sites is something like using
> one PowerBox Pro to feed all the 24v only gear, and a second one to feed
> the 48v gear.
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> EdgePoint does 48v only but has the outdoor part.
>> Netonix does 24v and 48v but doesn't have any outdoor capability
>> (enclosures would have to be ridiculous for the 12 port+)
>> Mikrotik only has 4 ports and 24v only.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>> Suite 1337
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, that's the easiest compromise at this point.
>>>
>>> What I'd like, is a box that I can connect a power supply to (whether
>>> that's 48v, or 24v, I don't care) that gives my a 48v and a 24v output, and
>>> has another connection for batteries and it deals with feeding the
>>> batteries the correct voltages and current. Whether that's 12v, 24v or 48v
>>> batteries, I don't really care... although I'd prefer 12v or 24v so can use
>>> a smaller number of bigger batteries, if I want to.
>>>
>>> Ideally, Forrest would build this, so I could just plug it into the
>>> SiteMonitors that are already there, and be able to monitor and control it
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> Of course I can buy all the parts separately to do the same thing, but
>>> having a pre-built box to do the job would be a lot cleaner.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It was 48v
>>>> Then it was mostly 24v
>>>> Now it's going 48v
>>>> Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.
>>>>
>>>> I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my problem in 2 minutes
>>>> than start changing things to 48v which would blow so much stuff up (epmp
>>>> non gps, ubnt M gear, half the Mikrotiks)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>> Suite 1337
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Mathew Howard 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No, there's not really a good reason, it just means you have an extra
>>>>> part to deal with.
>>>>>
>>>>> We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but those are the only radios
>>>>> that won't run off 48v on most of our new sites, so I've done some that 
>>>>> are
>>>>> 48v only and just use those things on the radios that need them. But if 
>>>>> you
>>>>> have more than 1 or 2 things that need 24v, it's generally more practical
>>>>> to just use a bigger voltage converter and run multiple radios off it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM,  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep, that was what I was thinking.
>>>>>> So, looks to me like there is no reason not to do 48 volts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:56 AM
>>>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>>>>> *Cc:* Dave ; AFMUG
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You mean like this?
>>>>>> https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

Nice to see the smaller players learning how to put on their big boy pants and 
join the ranks of carrier grade vendors.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:08 PM
To: Josh Luthman 
Cc: Chuck McCown ; AFMUG 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

Well, MikroTik does have 48v now (the hEX PoE/PowerBox Pro will take up to 57 
volts), but it's only one or the other, it doesn't do any voltage conversion. 
But what I've been doing at some sites is something like using one PowerBox Pro 
to feed all the 24v only gear, and a second one to feed the 48v gear. 

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  Agreed. 

  EdgePoint does 48v only but has the outdoor part.
  Netonix does 24v and 48v but doesn't have any outdoor capability (enclosures 
would have to be ridiculous for the 12 port+)
  Mikrotik only has 4 ports and 24v only.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

Yeah, that's the easiest compromise at this point.

What I'd like, is a box that I can connect a power supply to (whether 
that's 48v, or 24v, I don't care) that gives my a 48v and a 24v output, and has 
another connection for batteries and it deals with feeding the batteries the 
correct voltages and current. Whether that's 12v, 24v or 48v batteries, I don't 
really care... although I'd prefer 12v or 24v so can use a smaller number of 
bigger batteries, if I want to.

Ideally, Forrest would build this, so I could just plug it into the 
SiteMonitors that are already there, and be able to monitor and control it as 
well.

Of course I can buy all the parts separately to do the same thing, but 
having a pre-built box to do the job would be a lot cleaner.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

  It was 48v  
  Then it was mostly 24v
  Now it's going 48v
  Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.

  I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my problem in 2 minutes 
than start changing things to 48v which would blow so much stuff up (epmp non 
gps, ubnt M gear, half the Mikrotiks)

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Mathew Howard  
wrote:

No, there's not really a good reason, it just means you have an extra 
part to deal with.

We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but those are the only radios 
that won't run off 48v on most of our new sites, so I've done some that are 48v 
only and just use those things on the radios that need them. But if you have 
more than 1 or 2 things that need 24v, it's generally more practical to just 
use a bigger voltage converter and run multiple radios off it.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM,  wrote:

  Yep, that was what I was thinking.
  So, looks to me like there is no reason not to do 48 volts.  

  From: Mathew Howard 
  Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:56 AM
  To: Chuck McCown 
  Cc: Dave ; AFMUG 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

  You mean like this? 

  https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/

  Or do you have something better in mind?

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM,  wrote:

Me too...
So, what appetite is there for an inline POE regulator that would 
convert 48 to 24?

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:50 AM
To: Dave 
Cc: AFMUG 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

ugh... I keep forgetting to use reply-to-all...

Not every single UBNT radio... all the airfibers will happily take 
48v. Mikrotik is finally starting to make most of the new stuff handle 48v 
(including the PowerBox Pro), but yeah. UBNT is the reason I still have to use 
24v on most of our towers... they make a converter you can stick on in line 
with the radios, but that's kind of a pain if you have more than one or two, 
and it's an extra part to fail.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Dave  wrote:

  They make dental floss for that  :)

  On 06/21/2018 11:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of 
Mikrotiks

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird 
 wrote:

  I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

I'm

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

Well, MikroTik does have 48v now (the hEX PoE/PowerBox Pro will take up to
57 volts), but it's only one or the other, it doesn't do any voltage
conversion. But what I've been doing at some sites is something like using
one PowerBox Pro to feed all the 24v only gear, and a second one to feed
the 48v gear.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Agreed.
>
> EdgePoint does 48v only but has the outdoor part.
> Netonix does 24v and 48v but doesn't have any outdoor capability
> (enclosures would have to be ridiculous for the 12 port+)
> Mikrotik only has 4 ports and 24v only.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
> Suite 1337
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
> Troy, OH 45373
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, that's the easiest compromise at this point.
>>
>> What I'd like, is a box that I can connect a power supply to (whether
>> that's 48v, or 24v, I don't care) that gives my a 48v and a 24v output, and
>> has another connection for batteries and it deals with feeding the
>> batteries the correct voltages and current. Whether that's 12v, 24v or 48v
>> batteries, I don't really care... although I'd prefer 12v or 24v so can use
>> a smaller number of bigger batteries, if I want to.
>>
>> Ideally, Forrest would build this, so I could just plug it into the
>> SiteMonitors that are already there, and be able to monitor and control it
>> as well.
>>
>> Of course I can buy all the parts separately to do the same thing, but
>> having a pre-built box to do the job would be a lot cleaner.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It was 48v
>>> Then it was mostly 24v
>>> Now it's going 48v
>>> Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.
>>>
>>> I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my problem in 2 minutes
>>> than start changing things to 48v which would blow so much stuff up (epmp
>>> non gps, ubnt M gear, half the Mikrotiks)
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>> Suite 1337
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Mathew Howard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, there's not really a good reason, it just means you have an extra
>>>> part to deal with.
>>>>
>>>> We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but those are the only radios
>>>> that won't run off 48v on most of our new sites, so I've done some that are
>>>> 48v only and just use those things on the radios that need them. But if you
>>>> have more than 1 or 2 things that need 24v, it's generally more practical
>>>> to just use a bigger voltage converter and run multiple radios off it.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM,  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yep, that was what I was thinking.
>>>>> So, looks to me like there is no reason not to do 48 volts.
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:56 AM
>>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>>>> *Cc:* Dave ; AFMUG
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>>>>>
>>>>> You mean like this?
>>>>> https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/
>>>>>
>>>>> Or do you have something better in mind?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM,  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Me too...
>>>>>> So, what appetite is there for an inline POE regulator that would
>>>>>> convert 48 to 24?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:50 AM
>>>>>> *To:* Dave
>>>>>> *Cc:* AFMUG
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages ag

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

Just because Tommy jumped off the bridge doesn't mean we have to.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:59 PM,  wrote:

> It was always 48 for the real telecom players.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:52 AM
> *To:* Mathew Howard
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AFMUG
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>
> It was 48v
> Then it was mostly 24v
> Now it's going 48v
> Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.
>
> I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my problem in 2 minutes
> than start changing things to 48v which would blow so much stuff up (epmp
> non gps, ubnt M gear, half the Mikrotiks)
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
> Suite 1337
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
> Troy, OH 45373
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> No, there's not really a good reason, it just means you have an extra
>> part to deal with.
>>
>> We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but those are the only radios
>> that won't run off 48v on most of our new sites, so I've done some that are
>> 48v only and just use those things on the radios that need them. But if you
>> have more than 1 or 2 things that need 24v, it's generally more practical
>> to just use a bigger voltage converter and run multiple radios off it.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Yep, that was what I was thinking.
>>> So, looks to me like there is no reason not to do 48 volts.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:56 AM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Cc:* Dave ; AFMUG
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>>>
>>> You mean like this?
>>> https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/
>>>
>>> Or do you have something better in mind?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM,  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Me too...
>>>> So, what appetite is there for an inline POE regulator that would
>>>> convert 48 to 24?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:50 AM
>>>> *To:* Dave
>>>> *Cc:* AFMUG
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>>>>
>>>> ugh... I keep forgetting to use reply-to-all...
>>>>
>>>> Not every single UBNT radio... all the airfibers will happily take 48v.
>>>> Mikrotik is finally starting to make most of the new stuff handle 48v
>>>> (including the PowerBox Pro), but yeah. UBNT is the reason I still have to
>>>> use 24v on most of our towers... they make a converter you can stick on in
>>>> line with the radios, but that's kind of a pain if you have more than one
>>>> or two, and it's an extra part to fail.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Dave  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> They make dental floss for that  :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 06/21/2018 11:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+%0D%0A45373=gmail=g>
>>>>> Suite 1337
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+%0D%0A45373=gmail=g>
>>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+%0D%0A++Wayne+St+Suite+%0D%0A++1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>>>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two e

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

Yeah, that's the easiest compromise at this point.

What I'd like, is a box that I can connect a power supply to (whether
that's 48v, or 24v, I don't care) that gives my a 48v and a 24v output, and
has another connection for batteries and it deals with feeding the
batteries the correct voltages and current. Whether that's 12v, 24v or 48v
batteries, I don't really care... although I'd prefer 12v or 24v so can use
a smaller number of bigger batteries, if I want to.

Ideally, Forrest would build this, so I could just plug it into the
SiteMonitors that are already there, and be able to monitor and control it
as well.

Of course I can buy all the parts separately to do the same thing, but
having a pre-built box to do the job would be a lot cleaner.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> It was 48v
> Then it was mostly 24v
> Now it's going 48v
> Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.
>
> I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my problem in 2 minutes
> than start changing things to 48v which would blow so much stuff up (epmp
> non gps, ubnt M gear, half the Mikrotiks)
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
> Suite 1337
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
> Troy, OH 45373
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> No, there's not really a good reason, it just means you have an extra
>> part to deal with.
>>
>> We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but those are the only radios
>> that won't run off 48v on most of our new sites, so I've done some that are
>> 48v only and just use those things on the radios that need them. But if you
>> have more than 1 or 2 things that need 24v, it's generally more practical
>> to just use a bigger voltage converter and run multiple radios off it.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Yep, that was what I was thinking.
>>> So, looks to me like there is no reason not to do 48 volts.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:56 AM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Cc:* Dave ; AFMUG
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>>>
>>> You mean like this?
>>> https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/
>>>
>>> Or do you have something better in mind?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM,  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Me too...
>>>> So, what appetite is there for an inline POE regulator that would
>>>> convert 48 to 24?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:50 AM
>>>> *To:* Dave
>>>> *Cc:* AFMUG
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>>>>
>>>> ugh... I keep forgetting to use reply-to-all...
>>>>
>>>> Not every single UBNT radio... all the airfibers will happily take 48v.
>>>> Mikrotik is finally starting to make most of the new stuff handle 48v
>>>> (including the PowerBox Pro), but yeah. UBNT is the reason I still have to
>>>> use 24v on most of our towers... they make a converter you can stick on in
>>>> line with the radios, but that's kind of a pain if you have more than one
>>>> or two, and it's an extra part to fail.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Dave  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> They make dental floss for that  :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 06/21/2018 11:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+%0D%0A45373=gmail=g>
>>>>> Suite 1337
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+%0D%0A45373=gmail=g>
>>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+%0D%0A++Wayne+St+Suite+%0D%0A++1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

It was always 48 for the real telecom players.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:52 AM
To: Mathew Howard 
Cc: Chuck McCown ; AFMUG 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

It was 48v  
Then it was mostly 24v
Now it's going 48v
Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.

I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my problem in 2 minutes than 
start changing things to 48v which would blow so much stuff up (epmp non gps, 
ubnt M gear, half the Mikrotiks)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

  No, there's not really a good reason, it just means you have an extra part to 
deal with.

  We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but those are the only radios that 
won't run off 48v on most of our new sites, so I've done some that are 48v only 
and just use those things on the radios that need them. But if you have more 
than 1 or 2 things that need 24v, it's generally more practical to just use a 
bigger voltage converter and run multiple radios off it.

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM,  wrote:

Yep, that was what I was thinking.
So, looks to me like there is no reason not to do 48 volts.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:56 AM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: Dave ; AFMUG 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

You mean like this? 

https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/

Or do you have something better in mind?

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM,  wrote:

  Me too...
  So, what appetite is there for an inline POE regulator that would convert 
48 to 24?

  From: Mathew Howard 
  Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:50 AM
  To: Dave 
  Cc: AFMUG 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

  ugh... I keep forgetting to use reply-to-all...

  Not every single UBNT radio... all the airfibers will happily take 48v. 
Mikrotik is finally starting to make most of the new stuff handle 48v 
(including the PowerBox Pro), but yeah. UBNT is the reason I still have to use 
24v on most of our towers... they make a converter you can stick on in line 
with the radios, but that's kind of a pain if you have more than one or two, 
and it's an extra part to fail.

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Dave  wrote:

They make dental floss for that  :)

On 06/21/2018 11:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird  
wrote:

I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

  I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs.  The 5 
GHz is just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are 
getting 23 volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).

  Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?

  Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5 
ghz) and the other doesn't.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

It was 48v
Then it was mostly 24v
Now it's going 48v
Just give it a little bit, it'll go back to 24v.

I'd rather get a power supply doing 26v to fix my problem in 2 minutes than
start changing things to 48v which would blow so much stuff up (epmp non
gps, ubnt M gear, half the Mikrotiks)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

> No, there's not really a good reason, it just means you have an extra part
> to deal with.
>
> We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but those are the only radios that
> won't run off 48v on most of our new sites, so I've done some that are 48v
> only and just use those things on the radios that need them. But if you
> have more than 1 or 2 things that need 24v, it's generally more practical
> to just use a bigger voltage converter and run multiple radios off it.
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM,  wrote:
>
>> Yep, that was what I was thinking.
>> So, looks to me like there is no reason not to do 48 volts.
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:56 AM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>> *Cc:* Dave ; AFMUG
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>>
>> You mean like this?
>> https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/
>>
>> Or do you have something better in mind?
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Me too...
>>> So, what appetite is there for an inline POE regulator that would
>>> convert 48 to 24?
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:50 AM
>>> *To:* Dave
>>> *Cc:* AFMUG
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>>>
>>> ugh... I keep forgetting to use reply-to-all...
>>>
>>> Not every single UBNT radio... all the airfibers will happily take 48v.
>>> Mikrotik is finally starting to make most of the new stuff handle 48v
>>> (including the PowerBox Pro), but yeah. UBNT is the reason I still have to
>>> use 24v on most of our towers... they make a converter you can stick on in
>>> line with the radios, but that's kind of a pain if you have more than one
>>> or two, and it's an extra part to fail.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Dave  wrote:
>>>
>>>> They make dental floss for that  :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 06/21/2018 11:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+%0D%0A45373=gmail=g>
>>>> Suite 1337
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+%0D%0A45373=gmail=g>
>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+%0D%0A++Wayne+St+Suite+%0D%0A++1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs.  The 5 GHz
>>>>>> is just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are
>>>>>> getting 23 volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5 ghz)
>>>>>> and the other doesn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>>> Suite 1337
>>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

No, there's not really a good reason, it just means you have an extra part
to deal with.

We still use UBNT for our 2.4ghz stuff, but those are the only radios that
won't run off 48v on most of our new sites, so I've done some that are 48v
only and just use those things on the radios that need them. But if you
have more than 1 or 2 things that need 24v, it's generally more practical
to just use a bigger voltage converter and run multiple radios off it.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM,  wrote:

> Yep, that was what I was thinking.
> So, looks to me like there is no reason not to do 48 volts.
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:56 AM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Cc:* Dave ; AFMUG
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>
> You mean like this?
> https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/
>
> Or do you have something better in mind?
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM,  wrote:
>
>> Me too...
>> So, what appetite is there for an inline POE regulator that would convert
>> 48 to 24?
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:50 AM
>> *To:* Dave
>> *Cc:* AFMUG
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>>
>> ugh... I keep forgetting to use reply-to-all...
>>
>> Not every single UBNT radio... all the airfibers will happily take 48v.
>> Mikrotik is finally starting to make most of the new stuff handle 48v
>> (including the PowerBox Pro), but yeah. UBNT is the reason I still have to
>> use 24v on most of our towers... they make a converter you can stick on in
>> line with the radios, but that's kind of a pain if you have more than one
>> or two, and it's an extra part to fail.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Dave  wrote:
>>
>>> They make dental floss for that  :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On 06/21/2018 11:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
>>> Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+%0D%0A45373=gmail=g>
>>> Suite 1337
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+%0D%0A45373=gmail=g>
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+%0D%0A++Wayne+St+Suite+%0D%0A++1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs.  The 5 GHz
>>>>> is just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are
>>>>> getting 23 volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?
>>>>>
>>>>> Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5 ghz) and
>>>>> the other doesn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>> Suite 1337
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
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AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

Yep, that was what I was thinking.
So, looks to me like there is no reason not to do 48 volts.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:56 AM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: Dave ; AFMUG 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

You mean like this? 

https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/

Or do you have something better in mind?

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM,  wrote:

  Me too...
  So, what appetite is there for an inline POE regulator that would convert 48 
to 24?

  From: Mathew Howard 
  Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:50 AM
  To: Dave 
  Cc: AFMUG 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

  ugh... I keep forgetting to use reply-to-all...

  Not every single UBNT radio... all the airfibers will happily take 48v. 
Mikrotik is finally starting to make most of the new stuff handle 48v 
(including the PowerBox Pro), but yeah. UBNT is the reason I still have to use 
24v on most of our towers... they make a converter you can stick on in line 
with the radios, but that's kind of a pain if you have more than one or two, 
and it's an extra part to fail.

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Dave  wrote:

They make dental floss for that  :)

On 06/21/2018 11:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:

I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

  I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs.  The 5 GHz 
is just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are getting 
23 volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).

  Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?

  Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5 ghz) 
and the other doesn't.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

You mean like this?
https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/instant-8023af-adapters/

Or do you have something better in mind?

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM,  wrote:

> Me too...
> So, what appetite is there for an inline POE regulator that would convert
> 48 to 24?
>
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:50 AM
> *To:* Dave
> *Cc:* AFMUG
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz
>
> ugh... I keep forgetting to use reply-to-all...
>
> Not every single UBNT radio... all the airfibers will happily take 48v.
> Mikrotik is finally starting to make most of the new stuff handle 48v
> (including the PowerBox Pro), but yeah. UBNT is the reason I still have to
> use 24v on most of our towers... they make a converter you can stick on in
> line with the radios, but that's kind of a pain if you have more than one
> or two, and it's an extra part to fail.
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Dave  wrote:
>
>> They make dental floss for that  :)
>>
>>
>> On 06/21/2018 11:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+%0D%0A45373=gmail=g>
>> Suite 1337
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+%0D%0A45373=gmail=g>
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>>> I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs.  The 5 GHz
>>>> is just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are
>>>> getting 23 volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?
>>>>
>>>> Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5 ghz) and
>>>> the other doesn't.
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>> Suite 1337
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373=gmail=g>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

2018-06-21 Thread Dave

I do feel your pain on this subject though because we have most 
everything running on 48v and at sites that require it
depending on space requirement that I have there I just remove old 24v 
system and add dcdc converter to take care of whats left on 24v. 
Otherwise I just leave old supply.
We do have a condo complex with 25 2.4Ghz epmp 1000 hot spots all have 
to have 24v which had us scrounging for a

switch that would do that passive poe for 4 locations.
It may have worked better with 48v due to the longer runs we had for 
this project.

So yes, I agree 48v is where everything is headed.



On 06/21/2018 11:35 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs. The 5 GHz 
is just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are 
getting 23 volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).


Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?

Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5 ghz) and 
the other doesn't.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373




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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

Me too...
So, what appetite is there for an inline POE regulator that would convert 48 to 
24?

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:50 AM
To: Dave 
Cc: AFMUG 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

ugh... I keep forgetting to use reply-to-all...

Not every single UBNT radio... all the airfibers will happily take 48v. 
Mikrotik is finally starting to make most of the new stuff handle 48v 
(including the PowerBox Pro), but yeah. UBNT is the reason I still have to use 
24v on most of our towers... they make a converter you can stick on in line 
with the radios, but that's kind of a pain if you have more than one or two, 
and it's an extra part to fail.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Dave  wrote:

  They make dental floss for that  :)

  On 06/21/2018 11:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:

  I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)

  On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs.  The 5 GHz 
is just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are getting 
23 volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).

Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?

Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5 ghz) and 
the other doesn't.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

2018-06-21 Thread Josh Baird

All UBNT devices that we use are 48V (AF) and all MT devices that we use
are also 48V now.  You could always throw a small PoE switch (Netonix or
whatever) that can do both 24V and 48V.  I realize this may not be the most
convenient thing for you to do..

I'm just saying - a lot of our problems with ePMP went away when we
switched to 48V.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> 
> Suite 1337
> 
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs.  The 5 GHz is
>>> just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are getting
>>> 23 volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).
>>>
>>> Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?
>>>
>>> Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5 ghz) and
>>> the other doesn't.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> 
>>> Suite 1337
>>> 
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> 
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

There's that too =P


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Jason Wilson 
wrote:

> 48vdc would be really bad if that ePMP is NOT a GPS radio.
>
>
> Jason Wilson
> Remotely Located
> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
> 530-651-1736
> 530-748-9608 Cell
> www.remotelylocated.com
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 9:39 AM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> 
>> Suite 1337
>> 
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>>> I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
 I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs.  The 5 GHz
 is just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are
 getting 23 volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).

 Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?

 Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5 ghz) and
 the other doesn't.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 
 Suite 1337
 
 Troy, OH 45373
 

 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


>>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

ugh... I keep forgetting to use reply-to-all...

Not every single UBNT radio... all the airfibers will happily take 48v.
Mikrotik is finally starting to make most of the new stuff handle 48v
(including the PowerBox Pro), but yeah. UBNT is the reason I still have to
use 24v on most of our towers... they make a converter you can stick on in
line with the radios, but that's kind of a pain if you have more than one
or two, and it's an extra part to fail.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Dave  wrote:

> They make dental floss for that  :)
>
>
> On 06/21/2018 11:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs.  The 5 GHz is
>>> just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are getting
>>> 23 volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).
>>>
>>> Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?
>>>
>>> Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5 ghz) and
>>> the other doesn't.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> 
>>> Suite 1337
>>> 
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> 
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

2018-06-21 Thread Dave


They make dental floss for that  :)


On 06/21/2018 11:39 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird > wrote:


I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
wrote:

I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs. 
The 5 GHz is just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too
low.  Both ports are getting 23 volts and the cables are <10
feet (from the Powerbox Pro).

Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?

Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5
ghz) and the other doesn't.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St


Suite 1337


Troy, OH 45373



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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz

2018-06-21 Thread Jason Wilson

48vdc would be really bad if that ePMP is NOT a GPS radio.


Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 9:39 AM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Except for every single Ubnt device and a majority of Mikrotiks
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> I promise life will be easier if you just use 48V.  :)
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying to use a Powerbox Pro to power up two epmp APs.  The 5 GHz is
>>> just fine but the 2 GHz is saying current too low.  Both ports are getting
>>> 23 volts and the cables are <10 feet (from the Powerbox Pro).
>>>
>>> Does anyone know if the 2ghz requires more voltage possibly?
>>>
>>> Spec sheet does say 23 volts min but it's weird one powers (5 ghz) and
>>> the other doesn't.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> 
>>> Suite 1337
>>> 
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> 
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP voltages again - specifically 2ghz