Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux
Linux version 5.6 implemented a 64-bit patch that supports 32-bit architectures. This has been in use for 4 years. My boss hyperventilated a lot about Y2k and I kept telling him the problem was not going to happen and to stop getting butt-aches over it. News media wouldn't have a story if they can't drum up fear. On 2/12/24 18:14, Bill Prince wrote: Bigger question is if a monkey would kiss Ken. bp On 2/12/2024 5:10 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Would you kiss a monkey though? *From:* Ken Hohhof *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2024 5:48 PM *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux Had to look that up, but yes. But from a less selfish standpoint, with all the stuff going on in the world right now, it seems like there are bigger problems that need solving between now and 2038. If my kids are still around in 2038 (and apes or cockroaches or space aliens don’t rule the world), I hope the worst problem they face is whether Linux has a date rollover problem. Rather than being like Charlton Heston shouting you bastards, you finally did it, you blew it up! *From:*AF *On Behalf Of *Robert *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2024 5:59 PM *To:* af@af.afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux i.e. you are raising your SEP field... On 2/12/24 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I’m not President or a Senator or Supreme Court Justice, so in 2038 I plan to be retired or dead. It will be somebody else’s problem. *From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2024 1:02 PM *To:* af@af.afmug.com *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux "The latest time which can be represented like this is 03:14:07 UTC on January 19, 2038," said Zimmie. "Once the timer is incremented from this second, the value 'overflows' and goes from being a large positive number to being a large negative number. The next second this counter can represent is 20:45:52 UTC on December 13, 1901. This is called the Year 2038 Problem." -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux
Bigger question is if a monkey would kiss Ken. bp On 2/12/2024 5:10 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Would you kiss a monkey though? *From:* Ken Hohhof *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2024 5:48 PM *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux Had to look that up, but yes. But from a less selfish standpoint, with all the stuff going on in the world right now, it seems like there are bigger problems that need solving between now and 2038. If my kids are still around in 2038 (and apes or cockroaches or space aliens don’t rule the world), I hope the worst problem they face is whether Linux has a date rollover problem. Rather than being like Charlton Heston shouting you bastards, you finally did it, you blew it up! *From:*AF *On Behalf Of *Robert *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2024 5:59 PM *To:* af@af.afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux i.e. you are raising your SEP field... On 2/12/24 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I’m not President or a Senator or Supreme Court Justice, so in 2038 I plan to be retired or dead. It will be somebody else’s problem. *From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2024 1:02 PM *To:* af@af.afmug.com *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux "The latest time which can be represented like this is 03:14:07 UTC on January 19, 2038," said Zimmie. "Once the timer is incremented from this second, the value 'overflows' and goes from being a large positive number to being a large negative number. The next second this counter can represent is 20:45:52 UTC on December 13, 1901. This is called the Year 2038 Problem." -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux
Would you kiss a monkey though? From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 5:48 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux Had to look that up, but yes. But from a less selfish standpoint, with all the stuff going on in the world right now, it seems like there are bigger problems that need solving between now and 2038. If my kids are still around in 2038 (and apes or cockroaches or space aliens don’t rule the world), I hope the worst problem they face is whether Linux has a date rollover problem. Rather than being like Charlton Heston shouting you bastards, you finally did it, you blew it up! From: AF On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 5:59 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux i.e. you are raising your SEP field... On 2/12/24 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I’m not President or a Senator or Supreme Court Justice, so in 2038 I plan to be retired or dead. It will be somebody else’s problem. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 1:02 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux "The latest time which can be represented like this is 03:14:07 UTC on January 19, 2038," said Zimmie. "Once the timer is incremented from this second, the value 'overflows' and goes from being a large positive number to being a large negative number. The next second this counter can represent is 20:45:52 UTC on December 13, 1901. This is called the Year 2038 Problem." -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux
Had to look that up, but yes. But from a less selfish standpoint, with all the stuff going on in the world right now, it seems like there are bigger problems that need solving between now and 2038. If my kids are still around in 2038 (and apes or cockroaches or space aliens don’t rule the world), I hope the worst problem they face is whether Linux has a date rollover problem. Rather than being like Charlton Heston shouting you bastards, you finally did it, you blew it up! From: AF On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 5:59 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux i.e. you are raising your SEP field... On 2/12/24 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I’m not President or a Senator or Supreme Court Justice, so in 2038 I plan to be retired or dead. It will be somebody else’s problem. From: AF <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 1:02 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> Subject: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux "The latest time which can be represented like this is 03:14:07 UTC on January 19, 2038," said Zimmie. "Once the timer is incremented from this second, the value 'overflows' and goes from being a large positive number to being a large negative number. The next second this counter can represent is 20:45:52 UTC on December 13, 1901. This is called the Year 2038 Problem." -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux
i.e. you are raising your SEP field... On 2/12/24 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I’m not President or a Senator or Supreme Court Justice, so in 2038 I plan to be retired or dead. It will be somebody else’s problem. *From:*AF *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2024 1:02 PM *To:* af@af.afmug.com *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux "The latest time which can be represented like this is 03:14:07 UTC on January 19, 2038," said Zimmie. "Once the timer is incremented from this second, the value 'overflows' and goes from being a large positive number to being a large negative number. The next second this counter can represent is 20:45:52 UTC on December 13, 1901. This is called the Year 2038 Problem." -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux
Well that was a bit shortsighted... From: Bill Prince Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 4:06 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux When I worked for Tandem back in the 80s, around 1985, they ran a project they called Grandfather, where they decided to use the Julian date in a 64-bit integer representing the number of microseconds since 4713 BC. Since there are only 31,556,952,000,000 microseconds per year, that means their clock would not roll over for around 580,000 years. Good enough for me. bp On 2/12/2024 2:38 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_time#Operating_systems Fun chart here. Linux kernels after 5.10 support dates up to July 2486. The 2038 thing affects older kernels. It also may impact a variety of other things that might have stored dates as a 32 bit integer. File system time stamps, database time fields, etc. The time data type in C was originally 32 bit, and changing it to 64 bit creates compatibility problems for code which assumed a 32 bit value. If it’s C compiled recently for a 64 bit system then it maybe probably has a 64 bit time data type already, but old software may run for a long time. People are already coding for dates farther into the future than 2038 so the issue would be with embedded systems that never get replaced or updated. I’m sure there are innumerable examples, but I suspect most of them are systems that don’t really care what year it is. If a negative value breaks it, then reset the clock to 1978 and buy yourself another 50 years to get your upgrade budget approved. Interestingly, according to that chart, Windows supports dates past the year 30,000, but the IBM PC BIOS only counts up to 2079. I suppose the next panic will be when 2079 approaches. -Adam From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 3:54 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux Someone explain to me why the system clock is a signed integer? We need the IPV6 version of the system clock. Also please note that David Mills; the inventor of NTP passed away January 17, 2024. He was known as "Father Time". bpOn 2/12/2024 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I’m not President or a Senator or Supreme Court Justice, so in 2038 I plan to be retired or dead. It will be somebody else’s problem. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 1:02 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux "The latest time which can be represented like this is 03:14:07 UTC on January 19, 2038," said Zimmie. "Once the timer is incremented from this second, the value 'overflows' and goes from being a large positive number to being a large negative number. The next second this counter can represent is 20:45:52 UTC on December 13, 1901. This is called the Year 2038 Problem." -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux
When I worked for Tandem back in the 80s, around 1985, they ran a project they called Grandfather, where they decided to use the Julian date in a 64-bit integer representing the number of microseconds since 4713 BC. Since there are only 31,556,952,000,000 microseconds per year, that means their clock would not roll over for around 580,000 years. Good enough for me. bp On 2/12/2024 2:38 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_time#Operating_systems Fun chart here. Linux kernels after 5.10 support dates up to July 2486. The 2038 thing affects older kernels. It also may impact a variety of other things that might have stored dates as a 32 bit integer. File system time stamps, database time fields, etc. The time data type in C was originally 32 bit, and changing it to 64 bit creates compatibility problems for code which assumed a 32 bit value. If it’s C compiled recently for a 64 bit system then it maybe probably has a 64 bit time data type already, but old software may run for a long time. People are already coding for dates farther into the future than 2038 so the issue would be with embedded systems that never get replaced or updated. I’m sure there are innumerable examples, but I suspect most of them are systems that don’t really care what year it is. If a negative value breaks it, then reset the clock to 1978 and buy yourself another 50 years to get your upgrade budget approved. Interestingly, according to that chart, Windows supports dates past the year 30,000, but the IBM PC BIOS only counts up to 2079. I suppose the next panic will be when 2079 approaches. -Adam *From:*AF *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2024 3:54 PM *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux Someone explain to me why the system clock is a signed integer? We need the IPV6 version of the system clock. Also please note that David Mills; the inventor of NTP passed away January 17, 2024. He was known as "Father Time". bp On 2/12/2024 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I’m not President or a Senator or Supreme Court Justice, so in 2038 I plan to be retired or dead. It will be somebody else’s problem. *From:*AF <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>*On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2024 1:02 PM *To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux "The latest time which can be represented like this is 03:14:07 UTC on January 19, 2038," said Zimmie. "Once the timer is incremented from this second, the value 'overflows' and goes from being a large positive number to being a large negative number. The next second this counter can represent is 20:45:52 UTC on December 13, 1901. This is called the Year 2038 Problem." -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_time#Operating_systems Fun chart here. Linux kernels after 5.10 support dates up to July 2486. The 2038 thing affects older kernels. It also may impact a variety of other things that might have stored dates as a 32 bit integer. File system time stamps, database time fields, etc. The time data type in C was originally 32 bit, and changing it to 64 bit creates compatibility problems for code which assumed a 32 bit value. If it’s C compiled recently for a 64 bit system then it maybe probably has a 64 bit time data type already, but old software may run for a long time. People are already coding for dates farther into the future than 2038 so the issue would be with embedded systems that never get replaced or updated. I’m sure there are innumerable examples, but I suspect most of them are systems that don’t really care what year it is. If a negative value breaks it, then reset the clock to 1978 and buy yourself another 50 years to get your upgrade budget approved. Interestingly, according to that chart, Windows supports dates past the year 30,000, but the IBM PC BIOS only counts up to 2079. I suppose the next panic will be when 2079 approaches. -Adam From: AF On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 3:54 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux Someone explain to me why the system clock is a signed integer? We need the IPV6 version of the system clock. Also please note that David Mills; the inventor of NTP passed away January 17, 2024. He was known as "Father Time". bp On 2/12/2024 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I’m not President or a Senator or Supreme Court Justice, so in 2038 I plan to be retired or dead. It will be somebody else’s problem. From: AF <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 1:02 PM To: <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> af@af.afmug.com Cc: <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux "The latest time which can be represented like this is 03:14:07 UTC on January 19, 2038," said Zimmie. "Once the timer is incremented from this second, the value 'overflows' and goes from being a large positive number to being a large negative number. The next second this counter can represent is 20:45:52 UTC on December 13, 1901. This is called the Year 2038 Problem." -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux
So will this be now be called Y2.038K? Thank you, Brian Webster From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 2:54 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux I'm not President or a Senator or Supreme Court Justice, so in 2038 I plan to be retired or dead. It will be somebody else's problem. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 1:02 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux "The latest time which can be represented like this is 03:14:07 UTC on January 19, 2038," said Zimmie. "Once the timer is incremented from this second, the value 'overflows' and goes from being a large positive number to being a large negative number. The next second this counter can represent is 20:45:52 UTC on December 13, 1901. This is called the Year 2038 Problem." -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux
Someone explain to me why the system clock is a signed integer? We need the IPV6 version of the system clock. Also please note that David Mills; the inventor of NTP passed away January 17, 2024. He was known as "Father Time". bp On 2/12/2024 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I’m not President or a Senator or Supreme Court Justice, so in 2038 I plan to be retired or dead. It will be somebody else’s problem. *From:*AF *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2024 1:02 PM *To:* af@af.afmug.com *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux "The latest time which can be represented like this is 03:14:07 UTC on January 19, 2038," said Zimmie. "Once the timer is incremented from this second, the value 'overflows' and goes from being a large positive number to being a large negative number. The next second this counter can represent is 20:45:52 UTC on December 13, 1901. This is called the Year 2038 Problem." -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux
I'm not President or a Senator or Supreme Court Justice, so in 2038 I plan to be retired or dead. It will be somebody else's problem. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 1:02 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux "The latest time which can be represented like this is 03:14:07 UTC on January 19, 2038," said Zimmie. "Once the timer is incremented from this second, the value 'overflows' and goes from being a large positive number to being a large negative number. The next second this counter can represent is 20:45:52 UTC on December 13, 1901. This is called the Year 2038 Problem." -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
