Re: [AFMUG] windows 10 reinstall

[Brett A Mansfield]

I recently discovered that when I replace a clients computer and the new hard 
drive isn't much better than the old one, i can just move the old drive to the 
new computer and boot it. Windows 10 will install all the new drivers. Then all 
I have to do (if necessary) is activate Windows 10 and viola. No more needing 
to transfer all the clients data and settings because they're already there.

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

> On Dec 10, 2016, at 9:07 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
>  wrote:
> 
> holy cow. the old man has a cheap gateway laptop from best bu thats a few 
> years old. so of course the hard drive is cheap. its a windows 8 machine that 
> went through the free upgrade.
> i used the microsoft tool to make a windows 10 install usb
> this has been the cleanest OS reinstall ive ever done. its fairly elegant for 
> keyboard only install, like they knew the native drivers wouldnt make cheap 
> touchpads work, little to no tab arrowing on base install, skip microsoft 
> sign in and it was already activated on the hardware ID, sweet
> Now just updating drivers, painless stuff. Way to go Microsoft
> 
> -- 
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

[AFMUG] windows 10 reinstall

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

holy cow. the old man has a cheap gateway laptop from best bu thats a few
years old. so of course the hard drive is cheap. its a windows 8 machine
that went through the free upgrade.
i used the microsoft tool to make a windows 10 install usb
this has been the cleanest OS reinstall ive ever done. its fairly elegant
for keyboard only install, like they knew the native drivers wouldnt make
cheap touchpads work, little to no tab arrowing on base install, skip
microsoft sign in and it was already activated on the hardware ID, sweet
Now just updating drivers, painless stuff. Way to go Microsoft

-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Mike Hammett]

Things are only getting more complex. ;-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: "Animal Farm"  
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 9:22:42 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 



I did read your set framing idea. 

In theory that should work as long as you have some central controller so that 
all GPS grouped APs are accounted for and so that they all only change until 
they all know they should. Then you have to decide what APs are in what group. 
I. Guess they could all be in one group. Might be an issue with a large number. 


There would have to be some kind of flapping routine to make sure APs don't 
flip back and forth. 


I am not sure all the complexity is worth it. 


On Dec 10, 2016 8:22 PM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Say you have 9 settings from 10/90 up to 90/10. All APs are reporting frame 
utilization back to a central controller. When half+1 of them are maxed on 
upload or download, the controller tells them all to move up or down one 
setting at some time slot well enough after all APs should have gotten the 
message (or maybe require a confirmation). They all change ratios at that same 
time slot. The controller waits some amount of time before deciding to move 
again if necessary. It doesn't need to change per packet or even per second. If 
it changed once a minute or once every five minutes, that would be far more 
granularity than we have now. 

If you're friendly with another WISP and you want to interconnect controllers 
for the purpose of sharing ratio information, then great. Otherwise, rock on. 


Implementation surely isn't easy, but the concept shouldn't be difficult. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 7:23:32 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 



This reminds me of the reversible express lanes on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago. 
It depends on knowing that more people want to go one way in the morning and 
the other way in the evening. Globally. The only predictable pattern like that 
in our business might be to make the up/down ratio more asymmetric in the 
evening when the residential customers are watching video, and more symmetric 
during the day for business customers and in the middle of the night for cloud 
backup. But it really doesn’t matter except at peak usage times (again, 
globally, not just one tower with atypical customer traffic), so you might as 
well set your up/down ratio for 7-10 pm. 

PTP is different, some links don’t interfere with any other links and don’t 
need sync, so they can use dynamic up/down ratio. Cambium PTP500/600/650 has 
that mode, I’m surprised airFiber-X doesn’t. I end up setting mine at 50% 
because they are mostly in rings and you want the traffic to be able to go 
either way around the ring in case of a failure. 


From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 5:47 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

Syncing requires everything working together. Dynamic allocation requires 
everything working as each AP sees is best. The two are at opposition. Making 
them work together likely means sacrificing so much of one or maybe both of 
them as to make them almost useless. 
In no engineer and notably ignorant but that is how I see it. 



On Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 5:30 PM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Why? 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 









From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:50:23 PM 




Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 




Seems like fool’s gold, the concept is fundamentally flawed, not just waiting 
for someone to do it right. 







From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Bill Prince 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:22 PM 







To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 





I'm not throwing vinegar. Just being an honest skeptic. ;-) bp 



 





On 12/10/2016 2:20 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



That's fine. It's not something I'm holding my breath on, but if someone does 
it, great. 

Throwing vinegar on it won't help, though. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:19:00 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 
Great in theory. I'll believe it when I see it. bp  

On 12/10/2016 2:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Lewis Bergman]

I did read your set framing idea.

In theory that should work as long as you have some central controller so
that all GPS grouped APs are accounted for and so that they all only change
until they all know they should.  Then you have to decide what APs are in
what group. I. Guess they could all be in one group.  Might be an issue
with a large number.

There would have to be some kind of flapping routine to make sure APs don't
flip back and forth.

I am not sure all the complexity is worth it.

On Dec 10, 2016 8:22 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> Say you have 9 settings from 10/90 up to 90/10. All APs are reporting
> frame utilization back to a central controller. When half+1 of them are
> maxed on upload or download, the controller tells them all to move up or
> down one setting at some time slot well enough after all APs should have
> gotten the message (or maybe require a confirmation). They all change
> ratios at that same time slot. The controller waits some amount of time
> before deciding to move again if necessary. It doesn't need to change per
> packet or even per second. If it changed once a minute or once every five
> minutes, that would be far more granularity than we have now.
>
> If you're friendly with another WISP and you want to interconnect
> controllers for the purpose of sharing ratio information, then great.
> Otherwise, rock on.
>
>
> Implementation surely isn't easy, but the concept shouldn't be difficult.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 7:23:32 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?
>
> This reminds me of the reversible express lanes on Lake Shore Drive in
> Chicago.  It depends on knowing that more people want to go one way in the
> morning and the other way in the evening.  Globally.  The only predictable
> pattern like that in our business might be to make the up/down ratio more
> asymmetric in the evening when the residential customers are watching
> video, and more symmetric during the day for business customers and in the
> middle of the night for cloud backup.  But it really doesn’t matter except
> at peak usage times (again, globally, not just one tower with atypical
> customer traffic), so you  might as well set your up/down ratio for 7-10 pm.
>
>
>
> PTP is different, some links don’t interfere with any other links and
> don’t need sync, so they can use dynamic up/down ratio.  Cambium
> PTP500/600/650 has that mode, I’m surprised airFiber-X doesn’t.  I end up
> setting mine at 50% because they are mostly in rings and you want the
> traffic to be able to go either way around the ring in case of a failure.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 10, 2016 5:47 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?
>
>
>
> Syncing requires everything working together.  Dynamic allocation requires
> everything working as each AP sees is best. The two are at opposition.
> Making them work together likely means sacrificing so much of one or maybe
> both of them as to make them almost useless.
>
> In no engineer and notably ignorant but that is how I see it.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 5:30 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> Why?
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:50:23 PM
>
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?
>
> Seems like fool’s gold, the concept is fundamentally flawed, not just
> waiting for someone to do it right.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Ken Hohhof]

Yeah, funny how you can see dinner time on the traffic graphs.  When I was a 
kid, my dad got home at 5:30 and we ate at 6:00.  Apparently everyone in rural 
America still eats at precisely 6:00.

 

I miss the days when we watched All in the Family, then Walter Cronkite, then 
Johnny Carson, then bedtime.  Life had order.  You didn’t start binge watching 
some show on Netflix until the sun comes up and it’s time to go to work.  You 
would wake up at 2am to the National Anthem and a test pattern if you left the 
TV on.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 8:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

 

7-10pm? Man, you got it easy. People around here go from 4pm (when the kids get 
home from school), slight lull around 6pm (dinner time) and then right back up 
until midnight when the kids are forced to go to bed, and then the parents (and 
probably still some of the kids) finally quit around 1-1:30am.

Next week I fear school closings due to snow and/or sub-zero wind chill. Back 
in my school days, we still had to go when it was 0F, without wind chill. So 
did my parents in their day, plus "up hill both ways" but at least they had 
alcohol to warm them up, and a hit of acid and a joint on their trek.

On 12/10/2016 7:23 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

This reminds me of the reversible express lanes on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago. 
 It depends on knowing that more people want to go one way in the morning and 
the other way in the evening.  Globally.  The only predictable pattern like 
that in our business might be to make the up/down ratio more asymmetric in the 
evening when the residential customers are watching video, and more symmetric 
during the day for business customers and in the middle of the night for cloud 
backup.  But it really doesn’t matter except at peak usage times (again, 
globally, not just one tower with atypical customer traffic), so you  might as 
well set your up/down ratio for 7-10 pm.

 

PTP is different, some links don’t interfere with any other links and don’t 
need sync, so they can use dynamic up/down ratio.  Cambium PTP500/600/650 has 
that mode, I’m surprised airFiber-X doesn’t.  I end up setting mine at 50% 
because they are mostly in rings and you want the traffic to be able to go 
either way around the ring in case of a failure.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 5:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

 

Syncing requires everything working together.  Dynamic allocation requires 
everything working as each AP sees is best. The two are at opposition.  Making 
them work together likely means sacrificing so much of one or maybe both of 
them as to make them almost useless. 

In no engineer and notably ignorant but that is how I see it. 

 

On Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 5:30 PM Mike Hammett  > wrote:

Why?

 



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Ken Hohhof"  >
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:50:23 PM


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

Seems like fool’s gold, the concept is fundamentally flawed, not just waiting 
for someone to do it right.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On Behalf 
Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:22 PM


To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

 

I'm not throwing vinegar. Just being an honest skeptic. ;-)

bp

 

On 12/10/2016 2:20 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

That's fine. It's not something I'm holding my breath on, but if someone does 
it, great.

Throwing vinegar on it won't help, though.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Mike Hammett]

Say you have 9 settings from 10/90 up to 90/10. All APs are reporting frame 
utilization back to a central controller. When half+1 of them are maxed on 
upload or download, the controller tells them all to move up or down one 
setting at some time slot well enough after all APs should have gotten the 
message (or maybe require a confirmation). They all change ratios at that same 
time slot. The controller waits some amount of time before deciding to move 
again if necessary. It doesn't need to change per packet or even per second. If 
it changed once a minute or once every five minutes, that would be far more 
granularity than we have now. 

If you're friendly with another WISP and you want to interconnect controllers 
for the purpose of sharing ratio information, then great. Otherwise, rock on. 


Implementation surely isn't easy, but the concept shouldn't be difficult. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 7:23:32 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 



This reminds me of the reversible express lanes on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago. 
It depends on knowing that more people want to go one way in the morning and 
the other way in the evening. Globally. The only predictable pattern like that 
in our business might be to make the up/down ratio more asymmetric in the 
evening when the residential customers are watching video, and more symmetric 
during the day for business customers and in the middle of the night for cloud 
backup. But it really doesn’t matter except at peak usage times (again, 
globally, not just one tower with atypical customer traffic), so you might as 
well set your up/down ratio for 7-10 pm. 

PTP is different, some links don’t interfere with any other links and don’t 
need sync, so they can use dynamic up/down ratio. Cambium PTP500/600/650 has 
that mode, I’m surprised airFiber-X doesn’t. I end up setting mine at 50% 
because they are mostly in rings and you want the traffic to be able to go 
either way around the ring in case of a failure. 


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 5:47 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

Syncing requires everything working together. Dynamic allocation requires 
everything working as each AP sees is best. The two are at opposition. Making 
them work together likely means sacrificing so much of one or maybe both of 
them as to make them almost useless. 
In no engineer and notably ignorant but that is how I see it. 



On Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 5:30 PM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Why? 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 









From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:50:23 PM 




Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 




Seems like fool’s gold, the concept is fundamentally flawed, not just waiting 
for someone to do it right. 







From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Bill Prince 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:22 PM 







To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 





I'm not throwing vinegar. Just being an honest skeptic. ;-) bp 



 





On 12/10/2016 2:20 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



That's fine. It's not something I'm holding my breath on, but if someone does 
it, great. 

Throwing vinegar on it won't help, though. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:19:00 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 
Great in theory. I'll believe it when I see it. bp  

On 12/10/2016 2:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



It's system-wide. The controller is in your NOC. Perhaps one of the SDN 
technologies could manage the ratios. I'll admit that I haven't done much with 
OpenDayLight, but something like this fits into it's hype wheelhouse. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:13:38 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 
That's OK for maybe one POP. How do you make sure the 6 POPs around you do the 
same thing? 
bp  

On 12/10/2016 2:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



Controller knows system-wide what's up and sends out updates every so often to 
change at a certain time slot. It doesn't have to be real-time. Once a minute? 
Once every five minutes? It doesn't even need to be infinitely variable. Maybe 
there's four to 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[George Skorup]

7-10pm? Man, you got it easy. People around here go from 4pm (when the 
kids get home from school), slight lull around 6pm (dinner time) and 
then right back up until midnight when the kids are forced to go to bed, 
and then the parents (and probably still some of the kids) finally quit 
around 1-1:30am.


Next week I fear school closings due to snow and/or sub-zero wind chill. 
Back in my school days, we still had to go when it was 0F, without wind 
chill. So did my parents in their day, plus "up hill both ways" but at 
least they had alcohol to warm them up, and a hit of acid and a joint on 
their trek.


On 12/10/2016 7:23 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


This reminds me of the reversible express lanes on Lake Shore Drive in 
Chicago.  It depends on knowing that more people want to go one way in 
the morning and the other way in the evening.  Globally.  The only 
predictable pattern like that in our business might be to make the 
up/down ratio more asymmetric in the evening when the residential 
customers are watching video, and more symmetric during the day for 
business customers and in the middle of the night for cloud backup.  
But it really doesn’t matter except at peak usage times (again, 
globally, not just one tower with atypical customer traffic), so you  
might as well set your up/down ratio for 7-10 pm.


PTP is different, some links don’t interfere with any other links and 
don’t need sync, so they can use dynamic up/down ratio.  Cambium 
PTP500/600/650 has that mode, I’m surprised airFiber-X doesn’t.  I end 
up setting mine at 50% because they are mostly in rings and you want 
the traffic to be able to go either way around the ring in case of a 
failure.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Saturday, December 10, 2016 5:47 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

Syncing requires everything working together.  Dynamic allocation 
requires everything working as each AP sees is best. The two are at 
opposition.  Making them work together likely means sacrificing so 
much of one or maybe both of them as to make them almost useless.


In no engineer and notably ignorant but that is how I see it.

On Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 5:30 PM Mike Hammett > wrote:


Why?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 







*From: *"Ken Hohhof" >
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:50:23 PM


*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

Seems like fool’s gold, the concept is fundamentally flawed, not
just waiting for someone to do it right.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:22 PM


*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

I'm not throwing vinegar. Just being an honest skeptic. ;-)

bp



On 12/10/2016 2:20 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

That's fine. It's not something I'm holding my breath on, but
if someone does it, great.

Throwing vinegar on it won't help, though.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 







*From: *"Bill Prince" 

*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:19:00 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

Great in theory. I'll 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Mike Hammett]

Did you read what I said to do? What's with that? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 5:46:42 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 


Syncing requires everything working together. Dynamic allocation requires 
everything working as each AP sees is best. The two are at opposition. Making 
them work together likely means sacrificing so much of one or maybe both of 
them as to make them almost useless. 
In no engineer and notably ignorant but that is how I see it. 


On Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 5:30 PM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Why? 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 








From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:50:23 PM 



Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 






Seems like fool’s gold, the concept is fundamentally flawed, not just waiting 
for someone to do it right. 







From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Bill Prince 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:22 PM 







To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 








I'm not throwing vinegar. Just being an honest skeptic. ;-) bp 



 





On 12/10/2016 2:20 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



That's fine. It's not something I'm holding my breath on, but if someone does 
it, great. 

Throwing vinegar on it won't help, though. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:19:00 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 
Great in theory. I'll believe it when I see it. bp  

On 12/10/2016 2:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



It's system-wide. The controller is in your NOC. Perhaps one of the SDN 
technologies could manage the ratios. I'll admit that I haven't done much with 
OpenDayLight, but something like this fits into it's hype wheelhouse. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:13:38 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 
That's OK for maybe one POP. How do you make sure the 6 POPs around you do the 
same thing? 
bp  

On 12/10/2016 2:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



Controller knows system-wide what's up and sends out updates every so often to 
change at a certain time slot. It doesn't have to be real-time. Once a minute? 
Once every five minutes? It doesn't even need to be infinitely variable. Maybe 
there's four to eight settings that it goes among? Maybe you mark some devices 
as priority so their needs weighted more greatly, but otherwise if half the 
system is hitting contention in a given direction, move up to the next ratio at 
that next time slot. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Chuck McCown"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 3:48:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

I suppose if you negotiate ratio on every single transmission, you could 
come up with a terribly inefficient protocol that would be synced and 
dynamic. 

-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 2:46 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

Synced dynamic ratio is pure fairy dust. 


bp 
 

On 12/10/2016 1:36 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> attempting to have a synced dynamic ratio platform, though. Hopefully 
> someone gets this some day. 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

if every radio, base station, and subscriber had gps on it, knowing the 3
dimensional playing field of an entire network could give an operator a
bajillion options for syncing it all up, but when all thats known is the
base stations reletive position to x number subs with now knowledge of the
other nodes its a pipe dream

On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 7:52 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> im throwing vinegar, vinegar is just wine that became useless. I wouldnt
> throw booze on it, because im going to heaven and that would be a sin.
> worshiping false idols, thats another one, thats why the ubnt vinegar
>
> On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 4:21 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> I'm not throwing vinegar. Just being an honest skeptic. ;-)
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 12/10/2016 2:20 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>> That's fine. It's not something I'm holding my breath on, but if someone
>> does it, great.
>>
>> Throwing vinegar on it won't help, though.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Bill Prince"  
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:19:00 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?
>>
>> Great in theory. I'll believe it when I see it.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 12/10/2016 2:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>> It's system-wide. The controller is in your NOC. Perhaps one of the SDN
>> technologies could manage the ratios. I'll admit that I haven't done much
>> with OpenDayLight, but something like this fits into it's hype wheelhouse.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Bill Prince"  
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:13:38 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?
>>
>> That's OK for maybe one POP. How do you make sure the 6 POPs around you
>> do the same thing?
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 12/10/2016 2:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>> Controller knows system-wide what's up and sends out updates every so
>> often to change at a certain time slot. It doesn't have to be real-time.
>> Once a minute? Once every five minutes? It doesn't even need to be
>> infinitely variable. Maybe there's four to eight settings that it goes
>> among? Maybe you mark some devices as priority so their needs weighted more
>> greatly, but otherwise if half the system is hitting contention in a given
>> direction, move up to the next ratio at that next time slot.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Chuck McCown"  
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 3:48:15 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?
>>
>> I suppose if you negotiate ratio on every single transmission, you could
>> come up with a terribly inefficient protocol that would be synced and
>> dynamic.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Bill Prince
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

im throwing vinegar, vinegar is just wine that became useless. I wouldnt
throw booze on it, because im going to heaven and that would be a sin.
worshiping false idols, thats another one, thats why the ubnt vinegar

On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 4:21 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> I'm not throwing vinegar. Just being an honest skeptic. ;-)
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 12/10/2016 2:20 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> That's fine. It's not something I'm holding my breath on, but if someone
> does it, great.
>
> Throwing vinegar on it won't help, though.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Bill Prince"  
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:19:00 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?
>
> Great in theory. I'll believe it when I see it.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 12/10/2016 2:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> It's system-wide. The controller is in your NOC. Perhaps one of the SDN
> technologies could manage the ratios. I'll admit that I haven't done much
> with OpenDayLight, but something like this fits into it's hype wheelhouse.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Bill Prince"  
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:13:38 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?
>
> That's OK for maybe one POP. How do you make sure the 6 POPs around you do
> the same thing?
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 12/10/2016 2:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> Controller knows system-wide what's up and sends out updates every so
> often to change at a certain time slot. It doesn't have to be real-time.
> Once a minute? Once every five minutes? It doesn't even need to be
> infinitely variable. Maybe there's four to eight settings that it goes
> among? Maybe you mark some devices as priority so their needs weighted more
> greatly, but otherwise if half the system is hitting contention in a given
> direction, move up to the next ratio at that next time slot.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Chuck McCown"  
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 3:48:15 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?
>
> I suppose if you negotiate ratio on every single transmission, you could
> come up with a terribly inefficient protocol that would be synced and
> dynamic.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 2:46 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?
>
> Synced dynamic ratio is pure fairy dust.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 12/10/2016 1:36 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > attempting to have a synced dynamic ratio platform, though. Hopefully
> > someone gets this some day.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Ken Hohhof]

This reminds me of the reversible express lanes on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago. 
 It depends on knowing that more people want to go one way in the morning and 
the other way in the evening.  Globally.  The only predictable pattern like 
that in our business might be to make the up/down ratio more asymmetric in the 
evening when the residential customers are watching video, and more symmetric 
during the day for business customers and in the middle of the night for cloud 
backup.  But it really doesn’t matter except at peak usage times (again, 
globally, not just one tower with atypical customer traffic), so you  might as 
well set your up/down ratio for 7-10 pm.

 

PTP is different, some links don’t interfere with any other links and don’t 
need sync, so they can use dynamic up/down ratio.  Cambium PTP500/600/650 has 
that mode, I’m surprised airFiber-X doesn’t.  I end up setting mine at 50% 
because they are mostly in rings and you want the traffic to be able to go 
either way around the ring in case of a failure.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 5:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

 

Syncing requires everything working together.  Dynamic allocation requires 
everything working as each AP sees is best. The two are at opposition.  Making 
them work together likely means sacrificing so much of one or maybe both of 
them as to make them almost useless. 

In no engineer and notably ignorant but that is how I see it. 

 

On Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 5:30 PM Mike Hammett  > wrote:

Why?

 



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Ken Hohhof"  >
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:50:23 PM


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

Seems like fool’s gold, the concept is fundamentally flawed, not just waiting 
for someone to do it right.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On Behalf 
Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:22 PM


To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

 

I'm not throwing vinegar. Just being an honest skeptic. ;-)

bp

 

On 12/10/2016 2:20 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

That's fine. It's not something I'm holding my breath on, but if someone does 
it, great.

Throwing vinegar on it won't help, though.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Bill Prince"   
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:19:00 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

Great in theory. I'll believe it when I see it.

bp

 

On 12/10/2016 2:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

It's system-wide. The controller is in your NOC. Perhaps one of the SDN 
technologies could manage the ratios. I'll admit that I haven't done much with 
OpenDayLight, but something like this fits into it's hype wheelhouse.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Bill Prince"  

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Lewis Bergman]

Syncing requires everything working together.  Dynamic allocation requires
everything working as each AP sees is best. The two are at opposition.
Making them work together likely means sacrificing so much of one or maybe
both of them as to make them almost useless.

In no engineer and notably ignorant but that is how I see it.

On Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 5:30 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Why?
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:50:23 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?
>
> Seems like fool’s gold, the concept is fundamentally flawed, not just
> waiting for someone to do it right.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:22 PM
>
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?
>
>
>
> I'm not throwing vinegar. Just being an honest skeptic. ;-)
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 12/10/2016 2:20 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> That's fine. It's not something I'm holding my breath on, but if someone
> does it, great.
>
> Throwing vinegar on it won't help, though.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Bill Prince"  
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:19:00 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?
>
> Great in theory. I'll believe it when I see it.
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 12/10/2016 2:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> It's system-wide. The controller is in your NOC. Perhaps one of the SDN
> technologies could manage the ratios. I'll admit that I haven't done much
> with OpenDayLight, but something like this fits into it's hype wheelhouse.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Bill Prince"  
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:13:38 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?
>
> That's OK for maybe one POP. How do you make sure the 6 POPs around you do
> the same thing?
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 12/10/2016 2:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> Controller knows system-wide what's up and sends out updates every so
> often to change at a certain time slot. It doesn't have to be real-time.
> Once a minute? Once every five minutes? It doesn't even need to be
> infinitely variable. Maybe there's four to eight settings that it goes
> among? Maybe you mark some devices as priority so their needs weighted more
> greatly, but otherwise if half the system is hitting contention in a given
> direction, move up to the next ratio at that next time slot.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Mike Hammett]

Why? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:50:23 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 



Seems like fool’s gold, the concept is fundamentally flawed, not just waiting 
for someone to do it right. 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:22 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

I'm not throwing vinegar. Just being an honest skeptic. ;-) bp 
 

On 12/10/2016 2:20 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



That's fine. It's not something I'm holding my breath on, but if someone does 
it, great. 

Throwing vinegar on it won't help, though. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:19:00 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 
Great in theory. I'll believe it when I see it. bp  

On 12/10/2016 2:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



It's system-wide. The controller is in your NOC. Perhaps one of the SDN 
technologies could manage the ratios. I'll admit that I haven't done much with 
OpenDayLight, but something like this fits into it's hype wheelhouse. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:13:38 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 
That's OK for maybe one POP. How do you make sure the 6 POPs around you do the 
same thing? 
bp  

On 12/10/2016 2:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



Controller knows system-wide what's up and sends out updates every so often to 
change at a certain time slot. It doesn't have to be real-time. Once a minute? 
Once every five minutes? It doesn't even need to be infinitely variable. Maybe 
there's four to eight settings that it goes among? Maybe you mark some devices 
as priority so their needs weighted more greatly, but otherwise if half the 
system is hitting contention in a given direction, move up to the next ratio at 
that next time slot. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Chuck McCown"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 3:48:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

I suppose if you negotiate ratio on every single transmission, you could 
come up with a terribly inefficient protocol that would be synced and 
dynamic. 

-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 2:46 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

Synced dynamic ratio is pure fairy dust. 


bp 
 

On 12/10/2016 1:36 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> attempting to have a synced dynamic ratio platform, though. Hopefully 
> someone gets this some day. 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Ken Hohhof]

Seems like fool’s gold, the concept is fundamentally flawed, not just waiting 
for someone to do it right.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

 

I'm not throwing vinegar. Just being an honest skeptic. ;-)

bp

 

On 12/10/2016 2:20 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

That's fine. It's not something I'm holding my breath on, but if someone does 
it, great.

Throwing vinegar on it won't help, though.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Bill Prince"   
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:19:00 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

Great in theory. I'll believe it when I see it.

bp

 

On 12/10/2016 2:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

It's system-wide. The controller is in your NOC. Perhaps one of the SDN 
technologies could manage the ratios. I'll admit that I haven't done much with 
OpenDayLight, but something like this fits into it's hype wheelhouse.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Bill Prince"   
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:13:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

That's OK for maybe one POP. How do you make sure the 6 POPs around you do the 
same thing?

 

bp

 

On 12/10/2016 2:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Controller knows system-wide what's up and sends out updates every so often to 
change at a certain time slot. It doesn't have to be real-time. Once a minute? 
Once every five minutes? It doesn't even need to be infinitely variable. Maybe 
there's four to eight settings that it goes among? Maybe you mark some devices 
as priority so their needs weighted more greatly, but otherwise if half the 
system is hitting contention in a given direction, move up to the next ratio at 
that next time slot.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Chuck McCown"   
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 3:48:15 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

I suppose if you negotiate ratio on every single transmission, you could 
come up with a terribly inefficient protocol that would be synced and 
dynamic.

-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 2:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

Synced dynamic ratio is pure fairy dust.


bp


On 12/10/2016 1:36 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> attempting to have a synced dynamic ratio platform, though. Hopefully 
> someone gets this some day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Bill Prince]

I'm not throwing vinegar. Just being an honest skeptic. ;-)

bp


On 12/10/2016 2:20 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
That's fine. It's not something I'm holding my breath on, but if 
someone does it, great.


Throwing vinegar on it won't help, though.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Bill Prince" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:19:00 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

Great in theory. I'll believe it when I see it.

bp


On 12/10/2016 2:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

It's system-wide. The controller is in your NOC. Perhaps one of
the SDN technologies could manage the ratios. I'll admit that I
haven't done much with OpenDayLight, but something like this fits
into it's hype wheelhouse.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Bill Prince" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:13:38 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

That's OK for maybe one POP. How do you make sure the 6 POPs
around you do the same thing?


bp


On 12/10/2016 2:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Controller knows system-wide what's up and sends out updates
every so often to change at a certain time slot. It doesn't
have to be real-time. Once a minute? Once every five minutes?
It doesn't even need to be infinitely variable. Maybe there's
four to eight settings that it goes among? Maybe you mark some
devices as priority so their needs weighted more greatly, but
otherwise if half the system is hitting contention in a given
direction, move up to the next ratio at that next time slot.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Chuck McCown" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 3:48:15 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

I suppose if you negotiate ratio on every single transmission,
you could
come up with a terribly inefficient protocol that would be
synced and
dynamic.

-Original Message-
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 2:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

Synced dynamic ratio is pure fairy dust.


bp


On 12/10/2016 1:36 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> attempting to have a synced dynamic ratio platform, though.
Hopefully
> someone gets this some day.

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Mike Hammett]

That's fine. It's not something I'm holding my breath on, but if someone does 
it, great. 

Throwing vinegar on it won't help, though. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:19:00 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 


Great in theory. I'll believe it when I see it. 
bp
 
On 12/10/2016 2:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



It's system-wide. The controller is in your NOC. Perhaps one of the SDN 
technologies could manage the ratios. I'll admit that I haven't done much with 
OpenDayLight, but something like this fits into it's hype wheelhouse. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:13:38 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 


That's OK for maybe one POP. How do you make sure the 6 POPs around you do the 
same thing? 

bp
 
On 12/10/2016 2:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



Controller knows system-wide what's up and sends out updates every so often to 
change at a certain time slot. It doesn't have to be real-time. Once a minute? 
Once every five minutes? It doesn't even need to be infinitely variable. Maybe 
there's four to eight settings that it goes among? Maybe you mark some devices 
as priority so their needs weighted more greatly, but otherwise if half the 
system is hitting contention in a given direction, move up to the next ratio at 
that next time slot. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 3:48:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

I suppose if you negotiate ratio on every single transmission, you could 
come up with a terribly inefficient protocol that would be synced and 
dynamic. 

-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 2:46 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

Synced dynamic ratio is pure fairy dust. 


bp 
 

On 12/10/2016 1:36 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> attempting to have a synced dynamic ratio platform, though. Hopefully 
> someone gets this some day. 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Bill Prince]

Great in theory. I'll believe it when I see it.

bp


On 12/10/2016 2:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
It's system-wide. The controller is in your NOC. Perhaps one of the 
SDN technologies could manage the ratios. I'll admit that I haven't 
done much with OpenDayLight, but something like this fits into it's 
hype wheelhouse.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Bill Prince" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:13:38 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

That's OK for maybe one POP. How do you make sure the 6 POPs around 
you do the same thing?



bp


On 12/10/2016 2:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Controller knows system-wide what's up and sends out updates every
so often to change at a certain time slot. It doesn't have to be
real-time. Once a minute? Once every five minutes? It doesn't even
need to be infinitely variable. Maybe there's four to eight
settings that it goes among? Maybe you mark some devices as
priority so their needs weighted more greatly, but otherwise if
half the system is hitting contention in a given direction, move
up to the next ratio at that next time slot.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Chuck McCown" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 3:48:15 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

I suppose if you negotiate ratio on every single transmission, you
could
come up with a terribly inefficient protocol that would be synced and
dynamic.

-Original Message-
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 2:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

Synced dynamic ratio is pure fairy dust.


bp


On 12/10/2016 1:36 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> attempting to have a synced dynamic ratio platform, though.
Hopefully
> someone gets this some day.

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Mike Hammett]

It's system-wide. The controller is in your NOC. Perhaps one of the SDN 
technologies could manage the ratios. I'll admit that I haven't done much with 
OpenDayLight, but something like this fits into it's hype wheelhouse. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:13:38 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 


That's OK for maybe one POP. How do you make sure the 6 POPs around you do the 
same thing? 

bp
 
On 12/10/2016 2:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



Controller knows system-wide what's up and sends out updates every so often to 
change at a certain time slot. It doesn't have to be real-time. Once a minute? 
Once every five minutes? It doesn't even need to be infinitely variable. Maybe 
there's four to eight settings that it goes among? Maybe you mark some devices 
as priority so their needs weighted more greatly, but otherwise if half the 
system is hitting contention in a given direction, move up to the next ratio at 
that next time slot. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 3:48:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

I suppose if you negotiate ratio on every single transmission, you could 
come up with a terribly inefficient protocol that would be synced and 
dynamic. 

-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 2:46 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

Synced dynamic ratio is pure fairy dust. 


bp 
 

On 12/10/2016 1:36 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> attempting to have a synced dynamic ratio platform, though. Hopefully 
> someone gets this some day. 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Mike Hammett]

The same thing. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 4:13:38 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 


That's OK for maybe one POP. How do you make sure the 6 POPs around you do the 
same thing? 

bp
 
On 12/10/2016 2:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 



Controller knows system-wide what's up and sends out updates every so often to 
change at a certain time slot. It doesn't have to be real-time. Once a minute? 
Once every five minutes? It doesn't even need to be infinitely variable. Maybe 
there's four to eight settings that it goes among? Maybe you mark some devices 
as priority so their needs weighted more greatly, but otherwise if half the 
system is hitting contention in a given direction, move up to the next ratio at 
that next time slot. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 3:48:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

I suppose if you negotiate ratio on every single transmission, you could 
come up with a terribly inefficient protocol that would be synced and 
dynamic. 

-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 2:46 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

Synced dynamic ratio is pure fairy dust. 


bp 
 

On 12/10/2016 1:36 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> attempting to have a synced dynamic ratio platform, though. Hopefully 
> someone gets this some day. 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Bill Prince]

That's OK for maybe one POP. How do you make sure the 6 POPs around you 
do the same thing?



bp


On 12/10/2016 2:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Controller knows system-wide what's up and sends out updates every so 
often to change at a certain time slot. It doesn't have to be 
real-time. Once a minute? Once every five minutes? It doesn't even 
need to be infinitely variable. Maybe there's four to eight settings 
that it goes among? Maybe you mark some devices as priority so their 
needs weighted more greatly, but otherwise if half the system is 
hitting contention in a given direction, move up to the next ratio at 
that next time slot.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Chuck McCown" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Saturday, December 10, 2016 3:48:15 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

I suppose if you negotiate ratio on every single transmission, you could
come up with a terribly inefficient protocol that would be synced and
dynamic.

-Original Message-
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 2:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

Synced dynamic ratio is pure fairy dust.


bp


On 12/10/2016 1:36 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> attempting to have a synced dynamic ratio platform, though. Hopefully
> someone gets this some day.

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Mike Hammett]

Controller knows system-wide what's up and sends out updates every so often to 
change at a certain time slot. It doesn't have to be real-time. Once a minute? 
Once every five minutes? It doesn't even need to be infinitely variable. Maybe 
there's four to eight settings that it goes among? Maybe you mark some devices 
as priority so their needs weighted more greatly, but otherwise if half the 
system is hitting contention in a given direction, move up to the next ratio at 
that next time slot. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 3:48:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

I suppose if you negotiate ratio on every single transmission, you could 
come up with a terribly inefficient protocol that would be synced and 
dynamic. 

-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 2:46 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

Synced dynamic ratio is pure fairy dust. 


bp 
 

On 12/10/2016 1:36 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> attempting to have a synced dynamic ratio platform, though. Hopefully 
> someone gets this some day. 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Bill Prince]

When I first saw a  prototype of the alleged beam-forming air-whatever 
back in 2006?, 2007?,2008? Animal Farm, the UBNT engineers were touting 
the dynamic sync capability (in addition to the beam forming). I told 
them way back then that the dynamic sync was great "sizzle", but I was 
more interested in some "steak".



bp


On 12/10/2016 1:48 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I suppose if you negotiate ratio on every single transmission, you 
could come up with a terribly inefficient protocol that would be 
synced and dynamic.


-Original Message- From: Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 2:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

Synced dynamic ratio is pure fairy dust.


bp


On 12/10/2016 1:36 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
attempting to have a synced dynamic ratio platform, though. Hopefully 
someone gets this some day.

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Mike Hammett]

It could be done, but I don't expect it to be. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 3:46:08 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

Synced dynamic ratio is pure fairy dust. 


bp 
 

On 12/10/2016 1:36 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> attempting to have a synced dynamic ratio platform, though. Hopefully 
> someone gets this some day. 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Chuck McCown]

I suppose if you negotiate ratio on every single transmission, you could 
come up with a terribly inefficient protocol that would be synced and 
dynamic.


-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince

Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 2:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

Synced dynamic ratio is pure fairy dust.


bp


On 12/10/2016 1:36 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
attempting to have a synced dynamic ratio platform, though. Hopefully 
someone gets this some day.

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Bill Prince]

Synced dynamic ratio is pure fairy dust.


bp


On 12/10/2016 1:36 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
attempting to have a synced dynamic ratio platform, though. Hopefully 
someone gets this some day.

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Mike Hammett]

1) This is largely the team that made Canopy and airFiber. They're some smart 
fellers. 
2) M series GPS *DID* work and I know people that were using it at least 
somewhat recently, maybe still are. It just didn't work as "we" expected it to 
and it had a 50% bandwidth hit. I applaud them for attempting to have a synced 
dynamic ratio platform, though. Hopefully someone gets this some day. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "That One Guy /sarcasm"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 3:24:31 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 


exact same thing they said about m series gps 


On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 6:59 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




They said they have it running now, just not on customer's networks yet. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Luthman" < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 10:55:11 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 


In picture form it is. 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 11:51 AM, Tushar Patel < tpa...@ecpi.com > wrote: 


Oh wow. Is the silicon out yet? 

Tushar 


> On Dec 9, 2016, at 10:48 AM, Adam Moffett < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 
> 
> New radio platform from the air fiber team. In a nutshell: 
> FDD or HDD 
> PTMP 
> 4096QAM 
> Custom silicon rather than COTS chipset 
> 2 million PPS 
> channel sizes up to 100mhz 
> The speaker makes an allusion to copying the useful features from LTE but 
> leaving the mobility baggage. 
> 
> It's powerpointware / vaporware at the moment. 
> 
> -- Original Message -- 
> From: "Bill Prince" < part15...@gmail.com > 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Sent: 12/9/2016 11:43:07 AM 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 
> 


>> OK. I'm not familiar with the LTU thing, and I try to avoid marketing hype 
>> from UBNT. LTE is Long Term Evolution, and is capable under ideal 
>> circumstances of pushing ~~ 17 bits/Hz. 
>> 
>> What pray tell is LTU? 
>> 
>> 
>> bp 
>>  
>> 
>>> On 12/9/2016 4:55 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
>>> The confusion between LTE and LTU has to be intentional on UBNT's side. If 
>>> not to ride on something else's coattails, why would you use a very similar 
>>> acronym? 
>> 
> 











-- 




If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. 

Re: [AFMUG] Looking for custom cable for power plugs

[Colin Stanners]

What are the exact specs? Male/female/length/etc? I was looking at some for
some of my projects and found many sources (including the rare polarity -
reversal ones).
On Dec 10, 2016 12:41 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> I need some 2.5/5.5mm to 2.5mm/5.5mm jumpers.  I would appreciate a lead
> in a company that can make those up.
>
>
>
> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>
> *4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>
> *602-426-0542 <(602)%20426-0542>*
>
> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>
> *www.triadwireless.net *
>
>
>
> “One thing you learned as a Cubs fan, when you bought a ticket, you could
> always bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth.” – Joe Garagiola
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

exact same thing they said about m series gps

On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 6:59 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> They said they have it running now, just not on customer's networks yet.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Luthman" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, December 9, 2016 10:55:11 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?
>
> In picture form it is.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 11:51 AM, Tushar Patel  wrote:
>
>> Oh wow. Is the silicon out yet?
>>
>> Tushar
>>
>>
>> > On Dec 9, 2016, at 10:48 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>> >
>> > New radio platform from the air fiber team.  In a nutshell:
>> > FDD or HDD
>> > PTMP
>> > 4096QAM
>> > Custom silicon rather than COTS chipset
>> > 2 million PPS
>> > channel sizes up to 100mhz
>> > The speaker makes an allusion to copying the useful features from LTE
>> but leaving the mobility baggage.
>> >
>> > It's powerpointware / vaporware at the moment.
>> >
>> > -- Original Message --
>> > From: "Bill Prince" 
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Sent: 12/9/2016 11:43:07 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?
>> >
>> >> OK. I'm not familiar with the LTU thing, and I try to avoid marketing
>> hype from UBNT. LTE is Long Term Evolution, and is capable under ideal
>> circumstances of pushing ~~ 17 bits/Hz.
>> >>
>> >> What pray tell is LTU?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> bp
>> >> 
>> >>
>> >>> On 12/9/2016 4:55 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>> >>> The confusion between LTE and LTU has to be intentional on UBNT's
>> side. If not to ride on something else's coattails, why would you use a
>> very similar acronym?
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] high class place, act respectable

[Jaime Solorza]

AFMUG -small drinking blog/list with a wireless engineering problem.  Ajuaaa

On Dec 10, 2016 1:57 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> Reminds me of the sign at the town in Paint Your Wagon.  Population: Drunk
> The Hell-thiest place in the West (or something like that).
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 10, 2016 9:25 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] high class place, act respectable
>
>
> I went to the tire store today and saw this on the wall.  Somehow reminded
> me of this list.  Can we post it at the entrance?
>

Re: [AFMUG] high class place, act respectable

[Chuck McCown]

Reminds me of the sign at the town in Paint Your Wagon.  Population: Drunk
The Hell-thiest place in the West (or something like that).

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 9:25 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] high class place, act respectable

I went to the tire store today and saw this on the wall.  Somehow reminded me 
of this list.  Can we post it at the entrance?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Directv Now

[Mike Hammett]

and you can watch The Grand Tour. ;-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 11:50:31 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Directv Now 


Everything you just described is also available on the Amazon FireTV 


On Dec 10, 2016 9:21 AM, "Travis Johnson" < t...@ida.net > wrote: 



Ya... Amazon is not available on Apple TV... they are competing for users at 
this point. LOL 

The cool thing about Apple's service (music, movies, apps) is you can do their 
Family Share plan that is $14.95/month and up to 5 family members (using their 
own Apple ID) can all share any music, movies or apps that you pay for and have 
access to. 

So, I can buy a movie on my Apple TV for $9.99 and then all of my kids have 
access to it on all of their devices (iphones, ipads, Apple TV) for free. 

With Apple TV you can also download apps like TnT and NFL and if you have a 
satellite or cable account (with username/login and access to those channels), 
you get access to them on Apple TV as well. :) 

Travis 



On 12/9/2016 11:32 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: 





OK, after my son taught me how to use the remote (you swipe the upper half, it 
is pretty cool) I like the remote. 
I taught it to control the volume of the TV and you can search with voice. I 
really like the remote better than Roku once I got used to it. 
Just swipe to skip ahead etc. 

The video quality is the best of all the devices I am currently trying. Gold 
Rush never looked so good. 

It took some time for the Directv app to initialize and load the guide etc. I 
left it on for an hour and came back to it mostly working. 
I did have to upgrade the Apple TV software. 

I tried to watched some old episodes of The Profit and it would stop part way 
through with an apologetic error code on the screen. 
So, a bit buggy for archived content. Once they get the DVR function working, I 
think I will cancel SlingTV and Sony Playstation Vue. 

I really like using the voice command for usernames and passwords. Loaded up 
Netflix, Hulu, Showtime. 
Oddly, no Amazon app. Must be some bad blood between companies or something. 

Oh well, keeping the Tivo, it does Amazon and all my locals. Did not see any 
locals on Apple. 




From: can...@believewireless.net 
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 5:18 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Directv Now 



Received mine yesterday. I couldn't tell the difference between it and the HD 
FiOS TV I have. But haven't 
moved it to my 4k TV yet. 

Although, I hate the remote. The Roku remote is so ergonomically friendly, just 
not happy with the Apple TV 
remote. 


On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 5:21 PM, < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






FedEx says my apple tv is waiting on my doorstep when I get home. 
Be interesting to see the difference in the user experience as compared to 
viewing on the PC. 

Re: [AFMUG] Cisco config?

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Butch,

What you are trying to do is called q-in-q vlans  or dot1q-tunnel

Depending on the version of IOS, it may or may not be supported.
Quick google will get you more info... or you can try to find more info in 
these docs

http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/switches/datacenter/sw/5_x/nx-os/interfaces/configuration/guide/if_cli/if_qinq_tunnel.pdf


FYI, if your switch does not support it, then you can always do it manually...
  ... define them as trunk ports
  remove / disable the vlans you don't want to pass
  change the pvid to some other vlan (than 1)
  

Regards.


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

- Original Message -
> From: "Butch Evans" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 1:57:45 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Cisco config?

> I have a scenario where I need some "special" handling for vlans and am
> not sure how to configure this switch to handle it.  Software is:
> 
> IOS (tm) C3550 Software (C3550-I9Q3L2-M), Version 12.1(9)EA1c
> 
> Switch model is WS-C3550-24.  Here is the scenario I need to configure:
> 
> Most ports are configured as trunk mode, so any vlans I add to gear outside 
> the
> switch just pass through as I configure them.
> I have 4 ports (13-16) that need to be separate.  Currently, these are set up 
> as
> "switchport access vlan20".  This configuration
> effectively creates a separate "switch", which is what I need.  What I would
> LIKE to do, is have the ability to have those 4 ports allow
> me to create vlan configuration on gear plugged into these ports as well.  In
> other words, I want to create "2 switches" and have
> any port that is part of "switch 1" pass vlans unhindered between those ports
> and "switch 2" do the same.
> 
> I hope this is clear.  I only need a quick example, as I am somewhat familiar
> with the configs, just not sure how to overcome the
> single vlan limit on the access port.  The problem I have is that SOME gear on
> some of these ports are vlan unaware (and it needs to
> stay that way).  Here is a portion of the config showing the 3 port
> configuration types:
> 
> 
> !
> interface FastEthernet0/9
> description Kelly Office
> switchport trunk encapsulation dot1q
> switchport mode trunk
> no ip address
> !
> interface FastEthernet0/10
> no ip address
> 
> 
> !
> interface FastEthernet0/13
> description Accounting switch
> switchport access vlan 20
> switchport mode access
> no ip address
> !
> 
> 
> In practice, port 13 (14-16 are exactly like 13) cannot see traffic on either
> port 9 or 10.  Ports 9 and 10 can see each other (which is what I need)  Any
> vlan that
> I configure on gear plugged into ports 9 or 10 are simply passed through.  
> Ports
> 13-16 do not permit the vlan on the gear to pass.
> 
> --
> Butch Evans
> Training and Support for WISPs
> 702-537-0979
> http://store.wispgear.net/
> http://www.butchevans.com/

Re: [AFMUG] Cisco config?

[Butch Evans]

On Sat, 2016-12-10 at 19:03 +, Paul Stewart wrote:
> Really old switch ….. not sure if I follow what you’re trying to do
> …  if you had other switches in place, I’d start to suggest q-in-q
> but really what you’re looking for is logical switches inside the
> physical switch to keep the separation you are referring to.  So next
> obvious question, why not add a second physical switch maybe?
> 

It is, as you said, logical switches that I am needing (the vlan20).  I
can add a second switch, but that is what I am wanting to avoid if
possible.  I am growing more convinced that this is what I will have to
do.  Maybe an easier way to say what I need is that I need 2 logical
switches, each having the ability to pass vlan tags created OUTSIDE the
switch.  I'm just not sure that is possible in a cisco switch.


-- 
Butch Evans
Training and Support for WISPs
702-537-0979
http://store.wispgear.net/
http://www.butchevans.com/

Re: [AFMUG] Cisco config?

[Paul Stewart]

Really old switch ….. not sure if I follow what you’re trying to do …  if you 
had other switches in place, I’d start to suggest q-in-q but really what you’re 
looking for is logical switches inside the physical switch to keep the 
separation you are referring to.  So next obvious question, why not add a 
second physical switch maybe?

Paul



> On Dec 10, 2016, at 1:57 PM, Butch Evans  wrote:
> 
> I have a scenario where I need some "special" handling for vlans and am
> not sure how to configure this switch to handle it.  Software is:
> 
> IOS (tm) C3550 Software (C3550-I9Q3L2-M), Version 12.1(9)EA1c
> 
> Switch model is WS-C3550-24.  Here is the scenario I need to configure:
> 
> Most ports are configured as trunk mode, so any vlans I add to gear outside 
> the switch just pass through as I configure them.  
> I have 4 ports (13-16) that need to be separate.  Currently, these are set up 
> as "switchport access vlan20".  This configuration 
> effectively creates a separate "switch", which is what I need.  What I would 
> LIKE to do, is have the ability to have those 4 ports allow 
> me to create vlan configuration on gear plugged into these ports as well.  In 
> other words, I want to create "2 switches" and have
> any port that is part of "switch 1" pass vlans unhindered between those ports 
> and "switch 2" do the same.  
> 
> I hope this is clear.  I only need a quick example, as I am somewhat familiar 
> with the configs, just not sure how to overcome the 
> single vlan limit on the access port.  The problem I have is that SOME gear 
> on some of these ports are vlan unaware (and it needs to 
> stay that way).  Here is a portion of the config showing the 3 port 
> configuration types:
> 
> 
> !
> interface FastEthernet0/9
> description Kelly Office
> switchport trunk encapsulation dot1q
> switchport mode trunk
> no ip address
> ! 
> interface FastEthernet0/10
> no ip address
> 
> 
> ! 
> interface FastEthernet0/13
> description Accounting switch
> switchport access vlan 20
> switchport mode access
> no ip address
> ! 
> 
> 
> In practice, port 13 (14-16 are exactly like 13) cannot see traffic on either 
> port 9 or 10.  Ports 9 and 10 can see each other (which is what I need)  Any 
> vlan that
> I configure on gear plugged into ports 9 or 10 are simply passed through.  
> Ports 13-16 do not permit the vlan on the gear to pass.
> 
> -- 
> Butch Evans
> Training and Support for WISPs
> 702-537-0979
> http://store.wispgear.net/
> http://www.butchevans.com/

[AFMUG] Cisco config?

[Butch Evans]

I have a scenario where I need some "special" handling for vlans and am
not sure how to configure this switch to handle it.  Software is:

IOS (tm) C3550 Software (C3550-I9Q3L2-M), Version 12.1(9)EA1c

Switch model is WS-C3550-24.  Here is the scenario I need to configure:

Most ports are configured as trunk mode, so any vlans I add to gear outside the 
switch just pass through as I configure them.  
I have 4 ports (13-16) that need to be separate.  Currently, these are set up 
as "switchport access vlan20".  This configuration 
effectively creates a separate "switch", which is what I need.  What I would 
LIKE to do, is have the ability to have those 4 ports allow 
me to create vlan configuration on gear plugged into these ports as well.  In 
other words, I want to create "2 switches" and have
any port that is part of "switch 1" pass vlans unhindered between those ports 
and "switch 2" do the same.  

I hope this is clear.  I only need a quick example, as I am somewhat familiar 
with the configs, just not sure how to overcome the 
single vlan limit on the access port.  The problem I have is that SOME gear on 
some of these ports are vlan unaware (and it needs to 
stay that way).  Here is a portion of the config showing the 3 port 
configuration types:


!
interface FastEthernet0/9
 description Kelly Office
 switchport trunk encapsulation dot1q
 switchport mode trunk
 no ip address
! 
interface FastEthernet0/10
 no ip address


! 
interface FastEthernet0/13
 description Accounting switch
 switchport access vlan 20
 switchport mode access
 no ip address
! 


In practice, port 13 (14-16 are exactly like 13) cannot see traffic on either 
port 9 or 10.  Ports 9 and 10 can see each other (which is what I need)  Any 
vlan that
I configure on gear plugged into ports 9 or 10 are simply passed through.  
Ports 13-16 do not permit the vlan on the gear to pass.

-- 
Butch Evans
Training and Support for WISPs
702-537-0979
http://store.wispgear.net/
http://www.butchevans.com/

[AFMUG] Looking for custom cable for power plugs

[Rory Conaway]

I need some 2.5/5.5mm to 2.5mm/5.5mm jumpers.  I would appreciate a lead in a 
company that can make those up.

Rory Conaway * Triad Wireless * CEO
4226 S. 37th Street * Phoenix * AZ 85040
602-426-0542
r...@triadwireless.net
www.triadwireless.net

"One thing you learned as a Cubs fan, when you bought a ticket, you could 
always bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

Re: [AFMUG] Mounting sectors to 80ft self supporter

[Bill Prince]

Forever is a really, really long time. In only about 4 billion years (or 
so), the earth will be engulfed by an expanding red giant sun. We should 
stick around to watch that propane tank.



bp


On 12/10/2016 9:52 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I wonder if some scrap company is supposed to pick it up, or if it 
will sit there rusting forever.

Re: [AFMUG] Mounting sectors to 80ft self supporter

[Ken Hohhof]

Cellular carriers put up 3 and 4 sector frames all the time, I assume they also 
take them down when they do upgrades.  I wonder what happens to the old ones?  
Scrapped by the tower crews for the steel?  It might be interesting to contact 
some local tower work companies to see if they have a  bunch of them sitting in 
their yard, or if they could arrange for some to fall off a truck in the near 
future.  I seriously doubt the big cellcos get them back.  They typically buy 
stuff for a site, have it kitted and drop shipped to the site for a contract 
tower crew.

 

I know where there’s one sitting outside the fence at an AT cell tower along 
with some sector antennas, I figured it was a new one going up soon, but maybe 
it’s an old one they just took down.  Maybe it’s like the Sprint tower by me 
that got a new propane tank, the old one is still sitting outside the fence, I 
wonder if some scrap company is supposed to pick it up, or if it will sit there 
rusting forever.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 1:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Mounting sectors to 80ft self supporter

 

I need to install many sectors to a ~3 inch leg on a self supporter , I think 
the leg is too large for the sectors and I also need more sectors than I have 
leg , Chuck's 3 x mtow thing looks nice but I need all of the sectors to face 
the same direction. 

 

Any ideas on a way to make or buy some type of stand off that can accommodate 
many sectors ? I see the ones that have 4 vertical pipes but they are very 
expensive. 

 

Could you upload a pic if you have done this before ?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Directv Now

[Josh Reynolds]

Everything you just described is also available on the Amazon FireTV

On Dec 10, 2016 9:21 AM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:

> Ya... Amazon is not available on Apple TV... they are competing for users
> at this point. LOL
>
> The cool thing about Apple's service (music, movies, apps) is you can do
> their Family Share plan that is $14.95/month and up to 5 family members
> (using their own Apple ID) can all share any music, movies or apps that you
> pay for and have access to.
>
> So, I can buy a movie on my Apple TV for $9.99 and then all of my kids
> have access to it on all of their devices (iphones, ipads, Apple TV) for
> free.
>
> With Apple TV you can also download apps like TnT and NFL and if you have
> a satellite or cable account (with username/login and access to those
> channels), you get access to them on Apple TV as well. :)
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 12/9/2016 11:32 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> OK, after my son taught me how to use the remote (you swipe the upper
> half, it is pretty cool) I like the remote.
> I taught it to control the volume of the TV and you can search with
> voice.  I really like the remote better than Roku once I got used to it.
> Just swipe to skip ahead etc.
>
> The video quality is the best of all the devices I am currently trying.
> Gold Rush never looked so good.
>
> It took some time for the Directv app to initialize and load the guide
> etc.  I left it on for an hour and came back to it mostly working.
> I did have to upgrade the Apple TV software.
>
> I tried to watched some old episodes of The Profit and it would stop part
> way through with an apologetic error code on the screen.
> So, a bit buggy for archived content.  Once they get the DVR function
> working, I think I will cancel SlingTV and Sony Playstation Vue.
>
> I really like using the voice command for usernames and passwords.  Loaded
> up Netflix, Hulu, Showtime.
> Oddly, no Amazon app.  Must be some bad blood between companies or
> something.
>
> Oh well, keeping the Tivo, it does Amazon and all my locals.  Did not see
> any locals on Apple.
>
> *From:* can...@believewireless.net
> *Sent:* Friday, December 09, 2016 5:18 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Directv Now
>
> Received mine yesterday. I couldn't tell the difference between it and the
> HD FiOS TV I have. But haven't
> moved it to my 4k TV yet.
>
> Although, I hate the remote. The Roku remote is so ergonomically friendly,
> just not happy with the Apple TV
> remote.
>
> On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 5:21 PM,  wrote:
>
>> FedEx says my apple tv is waiting on my doorstep when I get home.
>> Be interesting to see the difference in the user experience as compared
>> to viewing on the PC.
>>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Directv Now

[Seth Mattinen]

On 12/10/16 8:21 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I get customers complaining about grandkids coming to visit for the
holidays and not being able to watch movies on their iPads because of
the grandparents crappy Internet (6+ Mbps) out in the country.  My
suspicion is they are trying to watch the iTunes videos you refer to,
and I notice you say that you “buy” it for $9.99, you  don’t say stream
it.  I’m suspecting that unlike Netflix which is oriented to streaming
and has many stream rates to adapt to the connection speed, that Apple
may be sending you the raw BluRay quality or something close.  Just a
hunch, because I have people watching 3 simultaneous Netflix streams on
the same service these people say is insufficient for one stream.



Yeah when you buy something off iTunes it downloads the file.

~Seth

[AFMUG] high class place, act respectable

[Ken Hohhof]

I went to the tire store today and saw this on the wall.  Somehow reminded
me of this list.  Can we post it at the entrance?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Directv Now

[Ken Hohhof]

I get customers complaining about grandkids coming to visit for the holidays 
and not being able to watch movies on their iPads because of the grandparents 
crappy Internet (6+ Mbps) out in the country.  My suspicion is they are trying 
to watch the iTunes videos you refer to, and I notice you say that you “buy” it 
for $9.99, you  don’t say stream it.  I’m suspecting that unlike Netflix which 
is oriented to streaming and has many stream rates to adapt to the connection 
speed, that Apple may be sending you the raw BluRay quality or something close. 
 Just a hunch, because I have people watching 3 simultaneous Netflix streams on 
the same service these people say is insufficient for one stream.

 

Do you know what the minimum Internet connection speed is for Apple video?  Not 
Netflix on an Apple TV, but content bought through Apple.

 

If that doesn’t explain it, my next theory would be the kids have their iPads 
set up to watch content from their home cable connection like Comcast.  It’s no 
use asking the grandparents, it’s like asking them if their computer has DDR3 
or DDR4 SDRAM.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 9:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Directv Now

 

Ya... Amazon is not available on Apple TV... they are competing for users at 
this point. LOL

The cool thing about Apple's service (music, movies, apps) is you can do their 
Family Share plan that is $14.95/month and up to 5 family members (using their 
own Apple ID) can all share any music, movies or apps that you pay for and have 
access to.

So, I can buy a movie on my Apple TV for $9.99 and then all of my kids have 
access to it on all of their devices (iphones, ipads, Apple TV) for free.

With Apple TV you can also download apps like TnT and NFL and if you have a 
satellite or cable account (with username/login and access to those channels), 
you get access to them on Apple TV as well. :)

Travis



On 12/9/2016 11:32 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

OK, after my son taught me how to use the remote (you swipe the upper half, it 
is pretty cool) I like the remote.

I taught it to control the volume of the TV and you can search with voice.  I 
really like the remote better than Roku once I got used to it.

Just swipe to skip ahead etc.

 

The video quality is the best of all the devices I am currently trying.  Gold 
Rush never looked so good.  

 

It took some time for the Directv app to initialize and load the guide etc.  I 
left it on for an hour and came back to it mostly working.

I did have to upgrade the Apple TV software.

 

I tried to watched some old episodes of The Profit and it would stop part way 
through with an apologetic error code on the screen.

So, a bit buggy for archived content.  Once they get the DVR function working, 
I think I will cancel SlingTV and Sony Playstation Vue. 

 

I really like using the voice command for usernames and passwords.  Loaded up 
Netflix, Hulu, Showtime.  

Oddly, no Amazon app.  Must be some bad blood between companies or something. 

 

Oh well, keeping the Tivo, it does Amazon and all my locals.  Did not see any 
locals on Apple.   

 

From: can...@believewireless.net   

Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 5:18 PM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Directv Now

 

Received mine yesterday. I couldn't tell the difference between it and the HD 
FiOS TV I have. But haven't

moved it to my 4k TV yet. 

 

Although, I hate the remote. The Roku remote is so ergonomically friendly, just 
not happy with the Apple TV

remote.

 

On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 5:21 PM,  > 
wrote:

FedEx says my apple tv is waiting on my doorstep when I get home.

Be interesting to see the difference in the user experience as compared to 
viewing on the PC.

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: 2001 space odyssey

[Ken Hohhof]

Almost every day, something happens that reminds me of the scene with the apes 
and the monolith.  I’m not sure we’ve evolved all that much.  Look, a monolith. 
 Hoot, hoot, hoot, hoot …..

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 12:41 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: 2001 space odyssey

 

Well... impressive at the time it was made. Also a great way to make a load of 
money with a movie with no discernable plot. Kind of like modern art.  In the 
end, it seemed more about evolution of some kind and making you think about it 
and maybe our purpose in it. Obviously was stating we had help in major 
evolutionary jumps. 

But back to your question. As a movie for enjoyment...I found it a bit tedious. 

 

On Fri, Dec 9, 2016, 11:40 PM Nate Burke  > wrote:

Is that a positive or negative for the movie?  I forced myself to watch
it twice, I still have no clue what was happening, and probably won't
try again.

On 12/9/2016 11:34 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> Just watched again for the first time in maybe 35 years or so.  WTF?!
> Maybe 2 more glasses  of bourbon and I can go to bed.

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Bill Prince]

What?!? No pony?


bp


On 12/9/2016 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

PMP.  5 GHz unlicensed.  4096QAM.  100 MHz channel.  And world peace.

Seriously, how much trouble do you have getting a 40 MHz airFiber PTP link to 
run at 10X?  And where are you going to find 100 MHz of 5 GHz spectrum for PMP?

The acronym LTU almost seems like a play on LTE-U, but that makes no sense, as 
LTE-U talks directly to handsets.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 10:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com; af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

New radio platform from the air fiber team.  In a nutshell:
FDD or HDD
PTMP
4096QAM
Custom silicon rather than COTS chipset
2 million PPS
channel sizes up to 100mhz
The speaker makes an allusion to copying the useful features from LTE but 
leaving the mobility baggage.

It's powerpointware / vaporware at the moment.

-- Original Message --
From: "Bill Prince" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/9/2016 11:43:07 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?


OK. I'm not familiar with the LTU thing, and I try to avoid marketing
hype from UBNT. LTE is Long Term Evolution, and is capable under ideal
circumstances of pushing ~~ 17 bits/Hz.

What pray tell is LTU?


bp


On 12/9/2016 4:55 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

The confusion between LTE and LTU has to be intentional on UBNT's
side. If not to ride on something else's coattails, why would you use
a very similar acronym?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Directv Now

[Travis Johnson]

Ya... Amazon is not available on Apple TV... they are competing for 
users at this point. LOL


The cool thing about Apple's service (music, movies, apps) is you can do 
their Family Share plan that is $14.95/month and up to 5 family members 
(using their own Apple ID) can all share any music, movies or apps that 
you pay for and have access to.


So, I can buy a movie on my Apple TV for $9.99 and then all of my kids 
have access to it on all of their devices (iphones, ipads, Apple TV) for 
free.


With Apple TV you can also download apps like TnT and NFL and if you 
have a satellite or cable account (with username/login and access to 
those channels), you get access to them on Apple TV as well. :)


Travis


On 12/9/2016 11:32 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
OK, after my son taught me how to use the remote (you swipe the upper 
half, it is pretty cool) I like the remote.
I taught it to control the volume of the TV and you can search with 
voice.  I really like the remote better than Roku once I got used to it.

Just swipe to skip ahead etc.
The video quality is the best of all the devices I am currently 
trying.  Gold Rush never looked so good.
It took some time for the Directv app to initialize and load the guide 
etc.  I left it on for an hour and came back to it mostly working.

I did have to upgrade the Apple TV software.
I tried to watched some old episodes of The Profit and it would stop 
part way through with an apologetic error code on the screen.
So, a bit buggy for archived content.  Once they get the DVR function 
working, I think I will cancel SlingTV and Sony Playstation Vue.
I really like using the voice command for usernames and passwords.  
Loaded up Netflix, Hulu, Showtime.
Oddly, no Amazon app.  Must be some bad blood between companies or 
something.
Oh well, keeping the Tivo, it does Amazon and all my locals.  Did not 
see any locals on Apple.

*From:* can...@believewireless.net
*Sent:* Friday, December 09, 2016 5:18 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Directv Now
Received mine yesterday. I couldn't tell the difference between it and 
the HD FiOS TV I have. But haven't

moved it to my 4k TV yet.
Although, I hate the remote. The Roku remote is so ergonomically 
friendly, just not happy with the Apple TV

remote.
On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 5:21 PM,  wrote:

FedEx says my apple tv is waiting on my doorstep when I get home.
Be interesting to see the difference in the user experience as
compared to viewing on the PC.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: 2001 space odyssey

[Jaime Solorza]

Watch and read Epilogue 3001 YouTube video...the monoliths were left by the
First Born to monitor and advance their experiments across the galaxies as
they evolved.  When humans achieved space travel and discovered TMA1 on
moon, that signaled one of Jupiter curious man just like curious
MoonWatcher (your distant African cousin) takes next step
..for ape-man ,it as killing to get control of water a source, for man it
was mission to Monolith on Jupiter and thus StarGate eventually we
would evolve beyond the tyranny of matter while not yet God's,they were
ethereal and eternal...
In all their travels, they never found anything more precious than mind

On Dec 9, 2016 11:40 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

Well... impressive at the time it was made. Also a great way to make a load
of money with a movie with no discernable plot. Kind of like modern art.
In the end, it seemed more about evolution of some kind and making you
think about it and maybe our purpose in it. Obviously was stating we had
help in major evolutionary jumps.

But back to your question. As a movie for enjoyment...I found it a bit
tedious.

On Fri, Dec 9, 2016, 11:40 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Is that a positive or negative for the movie?  I forced myself to watch
> it twice, I still have no clue what was happening, and probably won't
> try again.
>
> On 12/9/2016 11:34 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> > Just watched again for the first time in maybe 35 years or so.  WTF?!
> > Maybe 2 more glasses  of bourbon and I can go to bed.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] microwave pricing

[Gino Villarini]

SWG has some nice deals on refub Dragonwave Compacts , $3k IIRC with 2ft 
antennas

From: Af > on behalf of Eric 
Muehleisen >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Friday, December 9, 2016 at 3:31 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: [AFMUG] microwave pricing

2 mile 18ghz link. Only needing about 150mb/s speeds. 2ft. dish maximum. 
Five9's. Rainzone K.

Need a quick and dirty, ballpark idea of costs including licensing and spare 
radio/dish.

Need to price it against an AirFiber24 install.



Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

Re: [AFMUG] Mounting sectors to 80ft self supporter

[Lewis Bergman]

There is nothing that has multiple vertical mounts to a single leg, is very
stable, and is inexpensive.

If you look at sitepro1.com the cheapest one is about $600. And $600 is a
lot cheaper than I remember them going for. My guess is that you can't
really load that one up.

On Dec 10, 2016 1:08 AM, "TJ Trout"  wrote:

> I need to install many sectors to a ~3 inch leg on a self supporter , I
> think the leg is too large for the sectors and I also need more sectors
> than I have leg , Chuck's 3 x mtow thing looks nice but I need all of the
> sectors to face the same direction.
>
> Any ideas on a way to make or buy some type of stand off that can
> accommodate many sectors ? I see the ones that have 4 vertical pipes but
> they are very expensive.
>
> Could you upload a pic if you have done this before ?
>

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Mike Hammett]

It's all about your margins. Moar signal, tighter APs, etc. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 11:30:14 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

PMP. 5 GHz unlicensed. 4096QAM. 100 MHz channel. And world peace. 

Seriously, how much trouble do you have getting a 40 MHz airFiber PTP link to 
run at 10X? And where are you going to find 100 MHz of 5 GHz spectrum for PMP? 

The acronym LTU almost seems like a play on LTE-U, but that makes no sense, as 
LTE-U talks directly to handsets. 


-Original Message- 
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett 
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 10:49 AM 
To: af@afmug.com; af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

New radio platform from the air fiber team. In a nutshell: 
FDD or HDD 
PTMP 
4096QAM 
Custom silicon rather than COTS chipset 
2 million PPS 
channel sizes up to 100mhz 
The speaker makes an allusion to copying the useful features from LTE but 
leaving the mobility baggage. 

It's powerpointware / vaporware at the moment. 

-- Original Message -- 
From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 12/9/2016 11:43:07 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

>OK. I'm not familiar with the LTU thing, and I try to avoid marketing 
>hype from UBNT. LTE is Long Term Evolution, and is capable under ideal 
>circumstances of pushing ~~ 17 bits/Hz. 
> 
>What pray tell is LTU? 
> 
> 
>bp 
> 
> 
>On 12/9/2016 4:55 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
>>The confusion between LTE and LTU has to be intentional on UBNT's 
>>side. If not to ride on something else's coattails, why would you use 
>>a very similar acronym? 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Mike Hammett]

They said they have it running now, just not on customer's networks yet. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Luthman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 10:55:11 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 


In picture form it is. 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 11:51 AM, Tushar Patel < tpa...@ecpi.com > wrote: 


Oh wow. Is the silicon out yet? 

Tushar 


> On Dec 9, 2016, at 10:48 AM, Adam Moffett < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 
> 
> New radio platform from the air fiber team. In a nutshell: 
> FDD or HDD 
> PTMP 
> 4096QAM 
> Custom silicon rather than COTS chipset 
> 2 million PPS 
> channel sizes up to 100mhz 
> The speaker makes an allusion to copying the useful features from LTE but 
> leaving the mobility baggage. 
> 
> It's powerpointware / vaporware at the moment. 
> 
> -- Original Message -- 
> From: "Bill Prince" < part15...@gmail.com > 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Sent: 12/9/2016 11:43:07 AM 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 
> 


>> OK. I'm not familiar with the LTU thing, and I try to avoid marketing hype 
>> from UBNT. LTE is Long Term Evolution, and is capable under ideal 
>> circumstances of pushing ~~ 17 bits/Hz. 
>> 
>> What pray tell is LTU? 
>> 
>> 
>> bp 
>>  
>> 
>>> On 12/9/2016 4:55 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
>>> The confusion between LTE and LTU has to be intentional on UBNT's side. If 
>>> not to ride on something else's coattails, why would you use a very similar 
>>> acronym? 
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Mike Hammett]

Watch the video I made of their presentation on it. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 10:43:07 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

OK. I'm not familiar with the LTU thing, and I try to avoid marketing 
hype from UBNT. LTE is Long Term Evolution, and is capable under ideal 
circumstances of pushing ~~ 17 bits/Hz. 

What pray tell is LTU? 


bp 
 

On 12/9/2016 4:55 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> The confusion between LTE and LTU has to be intentional on UBNT's 
> side. If not to ride on something else's coattails, why would you use 
> a very similar acronym? 

Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News?

[Mike Hammett]

and SFP ports 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Adam Moffett"  
To: af@afmug.com, af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 10:48:38 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

New radio platform from the air fiber team. In a nutshell: 
FDD or HDD 
PTMP 
4096QAM 
Custom silicon rather than COTS chipset 
2 million PPS 
channel sizes up to 100mhz 
The speaker makes an allusion to copying the useful features from LTE 
but leaving the mobility baggage. 

It's powerpointware / vaporware at the moment. 

-- Original Message -- 
From: "Bill Prince"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 12/9/2016 11:43:07 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m , No News is Good News? 

>OK. I'm not familiar with the LTU thing, and I try to avoid marketing 
>hype from UBNT. LTE is Long Term Evolution, and is capable under ideal 
>circumstances of pushing ~~ 17 bits/Hz. 
> 
>What pray tell is LTU? 
> 
> 
>bp 
> 
> 
>On 12/9/2016 4:55 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
>>The confusion between LTE and LTU has to be intentional on UBNT's 
>>side. If not to ride on something else's coattails, why would you use 
>>a very similar acronym? 
>