Re: [AFMUG] OT: Weird Amazon Package return

[Nate Burke]

On Amazon, Reno 911 (one of my favorite shows), The Complete series, on 
DVD $17.   Digital Purchase, $1.99/episode, not all episodes available, 
120 episodes * $1.99=$238.80  How is streaming a good deal?


Plus Extra features, episode commentary, behind the scenes

On 11/13/2017 11:21 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:

Not everything is on demand.

Josh Reynolds wrote:

Both.

On Nov 13, 2017 10:09 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> wrote:


Are you more amazed about DVD's (vs Blu Ray) or amazed that
physical media is still a thing?

There are some tv shows which a Blu Ray transfer isn't likely to
happen anytime soon since the program was recorded using SD TV
cameras instead of film.  For those, DVD is just as good as Blu-Ray.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Josh Reynolds
> wrote:

I'm more amazed that in (almost) 2018 people are still buying
DVDs.

On Nov 13, 2017 8:59 AM, "Nate Burke" > wrote:

I ordered a DVD from Amazon that came cracked (Prime,
shipped from Amazon), so I returned it and they sent me a
new one.  The UPS return label for the damaged disk had it
being sent to a PO Box at the post office of a town of
1200 people in rural Illinois. When I checked the tracking
info from UPS, I saw that the package had been re-routed
once in UPS's possession to Lexington Ky, where I normally
see Amazon returns go. I'm perplexed as to why it was
initially going to be sent to this small town.  It's like
Amazon was trying to Game UPS for cheaper shipping, but I
can't imagine with the size of the contract they surely
have with UPS, it would be worth while to play games like
that.




-- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT
59602

forre...@imach.com  |
http://www.packetflux.com 

 




 
Virus-free. www.avg.com 
 



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Re: [AFMUG] Solar companies need polysilicon

[Chuck McCown]

Well that sucks.

-Original Message- 
From: Josh Reynolds

Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:59 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Solar companies need polysilicon

from: 
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-13/solar-companies-grapple-with-unexpected-shortage-of-key-material


Solar manufacturers are being battered by higher costs and smaller
margins, after an unexpected shortage of a critical raw material.

Prices of polysilicon, the main component of photovoltaic cells,
spiked as much as 35 percent in the past four months after
environmental regulators in China shut down several factories.

That’s driving up production costs as panel prices continue to
decline, and dragging down earnings for manufacturers in China, the
world’s biggest supplier.

“There’s just not enough polysilicon in China,” said Carter Driscoll,
an analyst who covers solar companies for FBR & Co. “If prices don’t
come down, it will crush margins.” 

[AFMUG] Solar companies need polysilicon

[Josh Reynolds]

from: 
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-13/solar-companies-grapple-with-unexpected-shortage-of-key-material

Solar manufacturers are being battered by higher costs and smaller
margins, after an unexpected shortage of a critical raw material.

Prices of polysilicon, the main component of photovoltaic cells,
spiked as much as 35 percent in the past four months after
environmental regulators in China shut down several factories.

That’s driving up production costs as panel prices continue to
decline, and dragging down earnings for manufacturers in China, the
world’s biggest supplier.

“There’s just not enough polysilicon in China,” said Carter Driscoll,
an analyst who covers solar companies for FBR & Co. “If prices don’t
come down, it will crush margins.”

Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

[Mike Hammett]

I've heard of them for many years. They've had booths at MUM shows for quite a 
while. They're at most WISPA shows in one form or another. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Luthman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 10:00:39 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs 


I don't understand why you wouldn't just use a consultant within our industry, 
that's part of WISPA, that's knows their stuff, that other people use... 


I've never even heard of the IPA guys, never seen them at any show. 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Paul McCall < pa...@pdmnet.net > wrote: 





Good info. I agree with the network assessment time, etc. We had spoken with 
IPA about doing this, and didn’t pull the trigger because we had bigger fish to 
fry at the time. So, I re-asked the question. I hear specific to IPA that they 
really don’t have a high satisfaction record among this group. So, while this 
discussion morphed into charges for assessing the network, it wasn’t really the 
question, and I think people on here that are credible have described IPA as 
not quite having their act together at this time 



From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson 
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2017 11:53 PM 


To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs 





Speaking from a consultant side it can be a little tricky with a new client. I 
have been burned more than once thinking I was going to “hop in and fix it real 
quick”. Anymore, I want to build relationships with my clients. One of the last 
ones was a guy calls me at midnight having a traffic issue. He has two upstream 
pipes he wants to try and utilize and needs some BGP help. It’s an emergency 
situation because he is maxing out one pipe and the other is barely being used. 
So, I talk with him for 45 minutes on his drive home before he can give me 
remote access. I then spend the next hour or so writing out diagrams on paper 
trying to learn his network as quickly as I can. 



I then make some BGP changes and see traffic change and watch it for another 15 
minutes or so. By this time his prime time is starting to wind down a little so 
I can’t tell if it’s normal traffic utilization or I actually fixed it. I tell 
client I made changes, spent 15 minutes typing up said changes, and say I 
*think* I fixed it but don’t really know enough about the network to say I did. 
Send client invoice and say let me know and we can look again at no charge. 



Three days later I get a nasty e-mail saying I didn’t fix it, goes on and on 
how he can prove I didn’t fix it blah blah. Oh, and by the way his normal 
consultant logged in and fixed it. Well yeah because the normal guy knows a 
whole lot more about the network than I did. 



Another off the street client had me look at some drop out issues. Again, same 
story. I have never touched the network and he calls me saying traffic just 
randomly stops for a second or two at a time. Start looking at things, start 
from the easiest things to look at. Spend 3 hours or so making sure configs are 
correct, etc. Bill client and say get back to me. Sends me a nasty gram 3 
months later saying it was the switch the routers were hooked into and they had 
buffer issues. Why did I not tell him to replace the switch within the first 
hour?!?!?! 



These are just a few examples. Us WISP consultants are a small bunch and we all 
know each other. My advice is you need to find a consultant you can build a 
relationship with that works for BOTH of you. My regular clients know I pick up 
the phone in a pinch and am fair with them. However, they have taken the time 
and effort to build the relationship on their side too. Anyone new who calls me 
that is looking for someone to answer the phone in that pinch automatically 
starts out with a 3-5 network evaluation. I don’t go as far as labbing 
everything up, but I make sure the documentation is spot on. I still do the 
small break fixes, etc. but I am much more cautious about things. We all have 
our own way of doing stuff. Some people and I don’t click. Some do. I am sure 
that is the same with any other consultant. 







Justin Wilson 

j...@mtin.net 



j2sw.com 

www.mtin.net 

www.midwest-ix.com 







On Nov 9, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Sterling Jacobson < sterl...@avative.net > wrote: 



Similar case with me which I kind of already pointed out. 



They couldn’t figure out a BGP issue and wanted to virtualize and put in a lab 
and spend hours on top of hours analyzing. 



I stopped them right there and said no thanks to that. 



Then I called Dennis and he took a few minutes, found out it likely wasn’t my 
problem, and worked with my upstream provider to fix it. 



And it was fixed after some emails back and 

Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

[Cameron Crum]

They are one of the largest if not the largest MT consultancy in the world
with offices in multiple countries. That is not to say they don't support
other technologies, but that is one of their big ones. They don't do booths
at Wispa because supporting wisps in general is not really a huge market
for them, and they are probably out of the price range of most small wisps.
I know they are always AT the shows even if they don't have a booth. Heck
in Louisville they rented out a bar and gave away free drinks. As far as I
know, they require the lab set up so that they can get your network right.
Justin probably hit the nail on the head with his description. If you are a
big company and you hire one of the big 3 to come in to advise you on your
business, they are most certainly going to charge you to analyze your
business before ever making any recommendations. Do you really want a
company that doesn't fully understand your network making decisions on how
to change that network if they don't know how it is running? If's one thing
if you need help understanding a concept or how to change one setting, but
totally different if you are going from something like a flat network to
fully routed, or from static routes to OSPF/BGP, etc. As is true more often
that not, you get what you pay for.

Cameron

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:29 PM, Adair Winter 
wrote:

> IMHO, that is exactly back words
> Kevin and the guys at IPA are good at what they do and they share a lot of
> info with the community.
> That said, use someone you are comfortable with.
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
>
>> Good info.  I agree with the network assessment time, etc.  We had spoken
>> with IPA about doing this, and didn’t pull the trigger because we had
>> bigger fish to fry at the time.  So, I re-asked the question.  I hear
>> specific to IPA that they really don’t have a high satisfaction record
>> among this group.   So, while this discussion morphed into charges for
>> assessing the network, it wasn’t really the question, and I think people on
>> here that are credible have described IPA as not quite having their act
>> together at this time
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Justin Wilson
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 12, 2017 11:53 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs
>>
>>
>>
>> Speaking from a consultant side it can be a little tricky with a new
>> client.  I have been burned more than once thinking I was going to “hop in
>> and fix it real quick”. Anymore, I want to build relationships with my
>> clients.  One of the last ones was a guy calls me at midnight having a
>> traffic issue.  He has two upstream pipes he wants to try and utilize and
>> needs some BGP help.  It’s an emergency situation because he is maxing out
>> one pipe and the other is barely being used. So, I talk with him for 45
>> minutes on his drive home before he can give me remote access.  I then
>> spend the next hour or so writing out diagrams on paper trying to learn his
>> network as quickly as I can.
>>
>>
>>
>> I then make some BGP changes and see traffic change and watch it for
>> another 15 minutes or so. By this time his prime time is starting to wind
>> down a little so I can’t tell if it’s normal traffic utilization or I
>> actually fixed it. I tell client I made changes, spent 15 minutes typing up
>> said changes, and say I *think* I fixed it but don’t really know enough
>> about the network to say I did.  Send client invoice and say let me know
>> and we can look again at no charge.
>>
>>
>>
>> Three days later I get a nasty e-mail saying I didn’t fix it, goes on and
>> on how he can prove I didn’t fix it blah blah.  Oh, and by the way his
>> normal consultant logged in and fixed it. Well yeah because the normal guy
>> knows a whole lot more about the network than I did.
>>
>>
>>
>> Another off the street client had me look at some drop out issues.
>> Again, same story.  I have never touched the network and he calls me saying
>> traffic just randomly stops for a second or two at a time.  Start looking
>> at things, start from the easiest things to look at.  Spend 3 hours or so
>> making sure configs are correct, etc.  Bill client and say get back to me.
>> Sends me a nasty gram 3 months later saying it was the switch the routers
>> were hooked into and they had buffer issues.  Why did I not tell him to
>> replace the switch within the first hour?!?!?!
>>
>>
>>
>> These are just a few examples.  Us WISP consultants are a small bunch and
>> we all know each other.  My advice is you need to find a consultant you can
>> build a relationship with that works for BOTH of you.  My regular clients
>> know I pick up the phone in a pinch and am fair with them.  However, they
>> have taken the time and effort to build the relationship on their side
>> too.  Anyone new who calls me that is looking for someone to answer the
>> phone in that 

[AFMUG] Anyone used one of these?

[Jaime Solorza]

Friend from Bolivia asking me for lowdown on these products...I have never
used the Sidekick series.  Anyone?
https://www.ekahau.com/products/sidekick/overview/

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi packetsniffer

[Steve Jones]

thin client is the second choice here, but all advice is appreciated

to youre question adam, i need the whole network traffic, not only the pbx
traffic. I think its a hardware issue, but the vendor will try to blame the
vlan configuration on the switch or some such madness

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Josh Reynolds 
wrote:

> Used thin clients running Linux can work well for this. You can catch
> quad-core boxes on eBay with power supplies for $25-$50 with a little
> luck.
>
> Just make sure you can replace the internal storage with whatever meets
> your needs.
>
> Note: NICs on this are sometimes great, and sometimes shit. YMMV, and
> could influence the quality of your packet captures.
>
> On Nov 13, 2017 12:06 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
>> The Pi will probably work fine if the traffic is light.
>>
>> Dumb question though for Steve:  Is the VoIP system the only machine in
>> the room?  Why not mirror the port to a secondary ethernet port on one of
>> the other servers nearby?
>>
>> Eric may seem like kind of a killjoy today, but he's right that you'll
>> have more uses for a mini-itx box.
>> http://www.mini-box.com
>> For a couple hundred bucks you can get an 8" square computer that runs on
>> 12V DC.  You can slap in internal SATA disks or external USB disks to your
>> hearts' content and it will have several times the balls of a Rasberry Pi.
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Sent: 11/13/2017 12:56:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi packetsniffer
>>
>> IMHO if you want a 100/1000 Mbps Ethernet port that you can actually rely
>> on for production use you don't hang it off a USB2 bus...  First,
>> latency/jitter issues with timestamping and logging (as compared to
>> something on a PCI-Express x8 2.0/3.0 bus), which can be crucial when
>> diagnosing voip/SIP issues. Also reliability and speed. Others have
>> commented that it's a quick way to kill the "disk" on a microSDHC card by
>> writing a lot of logging/debug data on a raspberry pi. You could connect a
>> cheap real SSD or 2.5" HDD in a USB3 external enclosure and use it for
>> logs, or send logs offsite (NFS, sshfs, etc) to another system, but at that
>> point you're better off with a "real" server.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> as a mirrored port capture though that shouldnt be an issue
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Eric Kuhnke 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 People keep using raspberry Pi for things they're not suited for. The
 100 Mbps Ethernet interface is attached to a USB2 bus. And it only has one
 ethernet port. Yes I suppose you could add a second interface by another
 USB dongle. If you really want to run wireshark and other stuff you're much
 better off with a really 1RU small x86-64 system that has two real Intel
 1000BaseT NICs on board, and a couple of PCI-Express slots. Or a really
 small desktop thing if it's a non rack environment, like a mini-itx
 motherboard in a cube shaped case with an Intel-chipset 4x1000BaseT port
 card.


 On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Steve Jones  wrote:

> I have a voip  pbx system issue im going to have to drop a long term
> packet sniffer onto the network to catch an issue that only happens like
> once in a month. So thats going to be alot of traffic (we have to capture
> everything to see if the issue has to do with other network traffic, so I
> cant even filter it out.
> I was thinking about making a pi a sniffer and just hang a  usb drive
> off of it for the archive.
>
> I dont see running a sniffer would be all that great a resource drain.
>
> Any reason this would be a bad idea, i could see it being a good tool
> to keep in our toolset. I just envision a little binder full of SD cards
> with purpose builds and a handful of pis for a handy toolbox
>


>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Tower erection and solar system installs

[Bill Prince]

This is what I had in mind.

   https://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/pq/casestudy/a6137/a6137.html

bp


On 11/11/2017 10:31 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:


I never let ignorance get in the way of having and offering an opinion.


On Sat, Nov 11, 2017, 11:10 AM > wrote:


Halo

-Original Message-
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2017 10:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tower erection and solar system installs

Would not be a bad idea to bond the individual rods with copper
inter-ties. This makes sure they provide the maximum
same-potential ground.


bp


On 11/10/2017 5:45 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
> Going to Lubbock area on 27th to erect a 50ft. tower and three solar
> systems with Ubiquiti radios.  My question is lightning
related.  Our
> sop as many of you know is to install air terminal at highest
point of
> tower and run ground wire to a rod buried 8 ft. deep. Since this
area
> is on edge of tornado alley, I am thinking of installing three rods
> spaced out in a ring.  It will be next to a well.  Any tips or
better
> suggestions? Tak

Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

[Adair Winter]

IMHO, that is exactly back words
Kevin and the guys at IPA are good at what they do and they share a lot of
info with the community.
That said, use someone you are comfortable with.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> Good info.  I agree with the network assessment time, etc.  We had spoken
> with IPA about doing this, and didn’t pull the trigger because we had
> bigger fish to fry at the time.  So, I re-asked the question.  I hear
> specific to IPA that they really don’t have a high satisfaction record
> among this group.   So, while this discussion morphed into charges for
> assessing the network, it wasn’t really the question, and I think people on
> here that are credible have described IPA as not quite having their act
> together at this time
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Justin Wilson
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 12, 2017 11:53 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs
>
>
>
> Speaking from a consultant side it can be a little tricky with a new
> client.  I have been burned more than once thinking I was going to “hop in
> and fix it real quick”. Anymore, I want to build relationships with my
> clients.  One of the last ones was a guy calls me at midnight having a
> traffic issue.  He has two upstream pipes he wants to try and utilize and
> needs some BGP help.  It’s an emergency situation because he is maxing out
> one pipe and the other is barely being used. So, I talk with him for 45
> minutes on his drive home before he can give me remote access.  I then
> spend the next hour or so writing out diagrams on paper trying to learn his
> network as quickly as I can.
>
>
>
> I then make some BGP changes and see traffic change and watch it for
> another 15 minutes or so. By this time his prime time is starting to wind
> down a little so I can’t tell if it’s normal traffic utilization or I
> actually fixed it. I tell client I made changes, spent 15 minutes typing up
> said changes, and say I *think* I fixed it but don’t really know enough
> about the network to say I did.  Send client invoice and say let me know
> and we can look again at no charge.
>
>
>
> Three days later I get a nasty e-mail saying I didn’t fix it, goes on and
> on how he can prove I didn’t fix it blah blah.  Oh, and by the way his
> normal consultant logged in and fixed it. Well yeah because the normal guy
> knows a whole lot more about the network than I did.
>
>
>
> Another off the street client had me look at some drop out issues.  Again,
> same story.  I have never touched the network and he calls me saying
> traffic just randomly stops for a second or two at a time.  Start looking
> at things, start from the easiest things to look at.  Spend 3 hours or so
> making sure configs are correct, etc.  Bill client and say get back to me.
> Sends me a nasty gram 3 months later saying it was the switch the routers
> were hooked into and they had buffer issues.  Why did I not tell him to
> replace the switch within the first hour?!?!?!
>
>
>
> These are just a few examples.  Us WISP consultants are a small bunch and
> we all know each other.  My advice is you need to find a consultant you can
> build a relationship with that works for BOTH of you.  My regular clients
> know I pick up the phone in a pinch and am fair with them.  However, they
> have taken the time and effort to build the relationship on their side
> too.  Anyone new who calls me that is looking for someone to answer the
> phone in that pinch automatically starts out with a 3-5 network evaluation.
> I don’t go as far as labbing everything up, but I make sure the
> documentation is spot on.  I still do the small break fixes, etc. but I am
> much more cautious about things.  We all have our own way of doing stuff.
> Some people and I don’t click.  Some do.  I am sure that is the same with
> any other consultant.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Justin Wilson
>
> j...@mtin.net
>
>
>
> j2sw.com
>
> www.mtin.net
>
> www.midwest-ix.com
>
>
>
> On Nov 9, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Similar case with me which I kind of already pointed out.
>
>
>
> They couldn’t figure out a BGP issue and wanted to virtualize and put in a
> lab and spend hours on top of hours analyzing.
>
>
>
> I stopped them right there and said no thanks to that.
>
>
>
> Then I called Dennis and he took a few minutes, found out it likely wasn’t
> my problem, and worked with my upstream provider to fix it.
>
>
>
> And it was fixed after some emails back and forth between all of us.
>
>
>
> I asked IPArchitechs to refund me since they had charged me hundreds of
> dollars to get nowhere.
>
> One of their sales guys made out a personal check to me for some reason,
> claiming his reputation was on the line or something like that.
>
> I think it was a shady play at emotions, but I don’t have many emotions,
> so it didn’t work with me, lol!
>
>
>
> I took whatever little money they could refund me, 

Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

[Adair Winter]

IPA was at the last two MUM's I was at. (Dallas and Denver)
Kevin and the guys are good at what they do. Suspect that they operate at a
level higher than most can understand.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:00 AM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> I don't understand why you wouldn't just use a consultant within our
> industry, that's part of WISPA, that's knows their stuff, that other people
> use...
>
> I've never even heard of the IPA guys, never seen them at any show.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> 
> Suite 1337
> 
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
>
>> Good info.  I agree with the network assessment time, etc.  We had spoken
>> with IPA about doing this, and didn’t pull the trigger because we had
>> bigger fish to fry at the time.  So, I re-asked the question.  I hear
>> specific to IPA that they really don’t have a high satisfaction record
>> among this group.   So, while this discussion morphed into charges for
>> assessing the network, it wasn’t really the question, and I think people on
>> here that are credible have described IPA as not quite having their act
>> together at this time
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Justin Wilson
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 12, 2017 11:53 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs
>>
>>
>>
>> Speaking from a consultant side it can be a little tricky with a new
>> client.  I have been burned more than once thinking I was going to “hop in
>> and fix it real quick”. Anymore, I want to build relationships with my
>> clients.  One of the last ones was a guy calls me at midnight having a
>> traffic issue.  He has two upstream pipes he wants to try and utilize and
>> needs some BGP help.  It’s an emergency situation because he is maxing out
>> one pipe and the other is barely being used. So, I talk with him for 45
>> minutes on his drive home before he can give me remote access.  I then
>> spend the next hour or so writing out diagrams on paper trying to learn his
>> network as quickly as I can.
>>
>>
>>
>> I then make some BGP changes and see traffic change and watch it for
>> another 15 minutes or so. By this time his prime time is starting to wind
>> down a little so I can’t tell if it’s normal traffic utilization or I
>> actually fixed it. I tell client I made changes, spent 15 minutes typing up
>> said changes, and say I *think* I fixed it but don’t really know enough
>> about the network to say I did.  Send client invoice and say let me know
>> and we can look again at no charge.
>>
>>
>>
>> Three days later I get a nasty e-mail saying I didn’t fix it, goes on and
>> on how he can prove I didn’t fix it blah blah.  Oh, and by the way his
>> normal consultant logged in and fixed it. Well yeah because the normal guy
>> knows a whole lot more about the network than I did.
>>
>>
>>
>> Another off the street client had me look at some drop out issues.
>> Again, same story.  I have never touched the network and he calls me saying
>> traffic just randomly stops for a second or two at a time.  Start looking
>> at things, start from the easiest things to look at.  Spend 3 hours or so
>> making sure configs are correct, etc.  Bill client and say get back to me.
>> Sends me a nasty gram 3 months later saying it was the switch the routers
>> were hooked into and they had buffer issues.  Why did I not tell him to
>> replace the switch within the first hour?!?!?!
>>
>>
>>
>> These are just a few examples.  Us WISP consultants are a small bunch and
>> we all know each other.  My advice is you need to find a consultant you can
>> build a relationship with that works for BOTH of you.  My regular clients
>> know I pick up the phone in a pinch and am fair with them.  However, they
>> have taken the time and effort to build the relationship on their side
>> too.  Anyone new who calls me that is looking for someone to answer the
>> phone in that pinch automatically starts out with a 3-5 network evaluation.
>> I don’t go as far as labbing everything up, but I make sure the
>> documentation is spot on.  I still do the small break fixes, etc. but I am
>> much more cautious about things.  We all have our own way of doing stuff.
>> Some people and I don’t click.  Some do.  I am sure that is the same with
>> any other consultant.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Justin Wilson
>>
>> j...@mtin.net
>>
>>
>>
>> j2sw.com
>>
>> www.mtin.net
>>
>> www.midwest-ix.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 9, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Similar case with me which I kind of already pointed out.
>>
>>
>>
>> They couldn’t figure out a 

Re: [AFMUG] rentipv4.com

[Adair Winter]

buy them on ipv4auctions.com

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> Has anyone worked with these folks and have an opinion on their worth?
>
> Best,
> Robert
>



-- 

Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
C: 806.231.7180
http://www.amarillowireless.net

Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux RackInjector

[Matt]

>>>What will for sure help is moving to cambium sync when we have a board
ready for it in the next month or so.  But that's a different discussion.

Will you have a module trade in plan?  I doubt it but does not hurt to ask.

Out of curiosity did they release the specs and how Cambium Sync works vs
Canopy sync?

Thanks.


On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Maybe, maybe not.How's that for an answer?
>
> Generally when radios have problems maintaining 1 gig w/sync over power
> it's related to either a surge supressor tripping, or an oversensitive
> switch.   It's hard to tell without knowing exactly the cause of the link
> dropping to 10/100 whether moving to a 4 pin power arrangement will help.
>
> What will for sure help is moving to cambium sync when we have a board
> ready for it in the next month or so.  But that's a different discussion.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:25 AM, Matt  wrote:
>
>> Looking at page 3:
>>
>> http://products.packetflux.com/rackinjector/RI-PIPS-Appendix-20170911.pdf
>>
>> Will port 2 POE jumper settings have a better chance of maintaining
>> 1gbps with sync over power on a PTP450i then port 1 jumper settings?
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> 
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi packetsniffer

[Eric Kuhnke]

If you're doing this around your office and not in a colo or somewhere, it
can be way less than a couple hundred bucks. Maybe it's my location or I'm
biased by having access to "free" gear, but people throw away things like
Dell Precision (not optiplex, the better-spec workstation class desktops)
Core 2 Duo with 4/8GB RAM and 250GB HDDs all the time. They have nice Intel
chipset NICs on board, run 64-bit kernels and have perfect driver support
in any recent Linux kernel. Putting the latest Debian or CentOS on one is
pretty quick.

free > $35 raspberry pi + $10 card



On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:06 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> The Pi will probably work fine if the traffic is light.
>
> Dumb question though for Steve:  Is the VoIP system the only machine in
> the room?  Why not mirror the port to a secondary ethernet port on one of
> the other servers nearby?
>
> Eric may seem like kind of a killjoy today, but he's right that you'll
> have more uses for a mini-itx box.
> http://www.mini-box.com
> For a couple hundred bucks you can get an 8" square computer that runs on
> 12V DC.  You can slap in internal SATA disks or external USB disks to your
> hearts' content and it will have several times the balls of a Rasberry Pi.
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Sent: 11/13/2017 12:56:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi packetsniffer
>
> IMHO if you want a 100/1000 Mbps Ethernet port that you can actually rely
> on for production use you don't hang it off a USB2 bus...  First,
> latency/jitter issues with timestamping and logging (as compared to
> something on a PCI-Express x8 2.0/3.0 bus), which can be crucial when
> diagnosing voip/SIP issues. Also reliability and speed. Others have
> commented that it's a quick way to kill the "disk" on a microSDHC card by
> writing a lot of logging/debug data on a raspberry pi. You could connect a
> cheap real SSD or 2.5" HDD in a USB3 external enclosure and use it for
> logs, or send logs offsite (NFS, sshfs, etc) to another system, but at that
> point you're better off with a "real" server.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> as a mirrored port capture though that shouldnt be an issue
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Eric Kuhnke 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> People keep using raspberry Pi for things they're not suited for. The
>>> 100 Mbps Ethernet interface is attached to a USB2 bus. And it only has one
>>> ethernet port. Yes I suppose you could add a second interface by another
>>> USB dongle. If you really want to run wireshark and other stuff you're much
>>> better off with a really 1RU small x86-64 system that has two real Intel
>>> 1000BaseT NICs on board, and a couple of PCI-Express slots. Or a really
>>> small desktop thing if it's a non rack environment, like a mini-itx
>>> motherboard in a cube shaped case with an Intel-chipset 4x1000BaseT port
>>> card.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I have a voip  pbx system issue im going to have to drop a long term
 packet sniffer onto the network to catch an issue that only happens like
 once in a month. So thats going to be alot of traffic (we have to capture
 everything to see if the issue has to do with other network traffic, so I
 cant even filter it out.
 I was thinking about making a pi a sniffer and just hang a  usb drive
 off of it for the archive.

 I dont see running a sniffer would be all that great a resource drain.

 Any reason this would be a bad idea, i could see it being a good tool
 to keep in our toolset. I just envision a little binder full of SD cards
 with purpose builds and a handful of pis for a handy toolbox

>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi packetsniffer

[Josh Reynolds]

Used thin clients running Linux can work well for this. You can catch
quad-core boxes on eBay with power supplies for $25-$50 with a little luck.

Just make sure you can replace the internal storage with whatever meets
your needs.

Note: NICs on this are sometimes great, and sometimes shit. YMMV, and could
influence the quality of your packet captures.

On Nov 13, 2017 12:06 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> The Pi will probably work fine if the traffic is light.
>
> Dumb question though for Steve:  Is the VoIP system the only machine in
> the room?  Why not mirror the port to a secondary ethernet port on one of
> the other servers nearby?
>
> Eric may seem like kind of a killjoy today, but he's right that you'll
> have more uses for a mini-itx box.
> http://www.mini-box.com
> For a couple hundred bucks you can get an 8" square computer that runs on
> 12V DC.  You can slap in internal SATA disks or external USB disks to your
> hearts' content and it will have several times the balls of a Rasberry Pi.
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Sent: 11/13/2017 12:56:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi packetsniffer
>
> IMHO if you want a 100/1000 Mbps Ethernet port that you can actually rely
> on for production use you don't hang it off a USB2 bus...  First,
> latency/jitter issues with timestamping and logging (as compared to
> something on a PCI-Express x8 2.0/3.0 bus), which can be crucial when
> diagnosing voip/SIP issues. Also reliability and speed. Others have
> commented that it's a quick way to kill the "disk" on a microSDHC card by
> writing a lot of logging/debug data on a raspberry pi. You could connect a
> cheap real SSD or 2.5" HDD in a USB3 external enclosure and use it for
> logs, or send logs offsite (NFS, sshfs, etc) to another system, but at that
> point you're better off with a "real" server.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> as a mirrored port capture though that shouldnt be an issue
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Eric Kuhnke 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> People keep using raspberry Pi for things they're not suited for. The
>>> 100 Mbps Ethernet interface is attached to a USB2 bus. And it only has one
>>> ethernet port. Yes I suppose you could add a second interface by another
>>> USB dongle. If you really want to run wireshark and other stuff you're much
>>> better off with a really 1RU small x86-64 system that has two real Intel
>>> 1000BaseT NICs on board, and a couple of PCI-Express slots. Or a really
>>> small desktop thing if it's a non rack environment, like a mini-itx
>>> motherboard in a cube shaped case with an Intel-chipset 4x1000BaseT port
>>> card.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I have a voip  pbx system issue im going to have to drop a long term
 packet sniffer onto the network to catch an issue that only happens like
 once in a month. So thats going to be alot of traffic (we have to capture
 everything to see if the issue has to do with other network traffic, so I
 cant even filter it out.
 I was thinking about making a pi a sniffer and just hang a  usb drive
 off of it for the archive.

 I dont see running a sniffer would be all that great a resource drain.

 Any reason this would be a bad idea, i could see it being a good tool
 to keep in our toolset. I just envision a little binder full of SD cards
 with purpose builds and a handful of pis for a handy toolbox

>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi packetsniffer

[Adam Moffett]

The Pi will probably work fine if the traffic is light.

Dumb question though for Steve:  Is the VoIP system the only machine in 
the room?  Why not mirror the port to a secondary ethernet port on one 
of the other servers nearby?


Eric may seem like kind of a killjoy today, but he's right that you'll 
have more uses for a mini-itx box.

http://www.mini-box.com
For a couple hundred bucks you can get an 8" square computer that runs 
on 12V DC.  You can slap in internal SATA disks or external USB disks to 
your hearts' content and it will have several times the balls of a 
Rasberry Pi.


-- Original Message --
From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 11/13/2017 12:56:26 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi packetsniffer

IMHO if you want a 100/1000 Mbps Ethernet port that you can actually 
rely on for production use you don't hang it off a USB2 bus...  First, 
latency/jitter issues with timestamping and logging (as compared to 
something on a PCI-Express x8 2.0/3.0 bus), which can be crucial when 
diagnosing voip/SIP issues. Also reliability and speed. Others have 
commented that it's a quick way to kill the "disk" on a microSDHC card 
by writing a lot of logging/debug data on a raspberry pi. You could 
connect a cheap real SSD or 2.5" HDD in a USB3 external enclosure and 
use it for logs, or send logs offsite (NFS, sshfs, etc) to another 
system, but at that point you're better off with a "real" server.



On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Steve Jones 
 wrote:

as a mirrored port capture though that shouldnt be an issue

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Eric Kuhnke  
wrote:
People keep using raspberry Pi for things they're not suited for. The 
100 Mbps Ethernet interface is attached to a USB2 bus. And it only 
has one ethernet port. Yes I suppose you could add a second interface 
by another USB dongle. If you really want to run wireshark and other 
stuff you're much better off with a really 1RU small x86-64 system 
that has two real Intel 1000BaseT NICs on board, and a couple of 
PCI-Express slots. Or a really small desktop thing if it's a non rack 
environment, like a mini-itx motherboard in a cube shaped case with 
an Intel-chipset 4x1000BaseT port card.



On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Steve Jones 
 wrote:
I have a voip  pbx system issue im going to have to drop a long term 
packet sniffer onto the network to catch an issue that only happens 
like once in a month. So thats going to be alot of traffic (we have 
to capture everything to see if the issue has to do with other 
network traffic, so I cant even filter it out.
I was thinking about making a pi a sniffer and just hang a  usb 
drive off of it for the archive.


I dont see running a sniffer would be all that great a resource 
drain.


Any reason this would be a bad idea, i could see it being a good 
tool to keep in our toolset. I just envision a little binder full of 
SD cards with purpose builds and a handful of pis for a handy 
toolbox

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi packetsniffer

[Josh Reynolds]

You will be filling up memory faster than you can flush ram to "disk", if
you are trying to look at wide traffic patterns to diagnose an issue.

On Nov 13, 2017 11:38 AM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

> Ive always set wireshark to buffer 100mb and white incremental pcaps. are
> you talking about the sd write for memory usage?
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:31 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> Recording traffic (headers) could easily exceed the write capability of
>> the media.
>>
>> On Nov 13, 2017 11:28 AM, "Steve Jones" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a voip  pbx system issue im going to have to drop a long term
>>> packet sniffer onto the network to catch an issue that only happens like
>>> once in a month. So thats going to be alot of traffic (we have to capture
>>> everything to see if the issue has to do with other network traffic, so I
>>> cant even filter it out.
>>> I was thinking about making a pi a sniffer and just hang a  usb drive
>>> off of it for the archive.
>>>
>>> I dont see running a sniffer would be all that great a resource drain.
>>>
>>> Any reason this would be a bad idea, i could see it being a good tool to
>>> keep in our toolset. I just envision a little binder full of SD cards with
>>> purpose builds and a handful of pis for a handy toolbox
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] rentipv4.com

[Josh Reynolds]

1 out of 10 comments about renting IPs on NANOG are positive.

On Nov 13, 2017 12:03 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:

> Has anyone worked with these folks and have an opinion on their worth?
>
> Best,
> Robert
>

[AFMUG] rentipv4.com

[Robert Andrews]

Has anyone worked with these folks and have an opinion on their worth?

Best,
Robert

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi packetsniffer

[Eric Kuhnke]

IMHO if you want a 100/1000 Mbps Ethernet port that you can actually rely
on for production use you don't hang it off a USB2 bus...  First,
latency/jitter issues with timestamping and logging (as compared to
something on a PCI-Express x8 2.0/3.0 bus), which can be crucial when
diagnosing voip/SIP issues. Also reliability and speed. Others have
commented that it's a quick way to kill the "disk" on a microSDHC card by
writing a lot of logging/debug data on a raspberry pi. You could connect a
cheap real SSD or 2.5" HDD in a USB3 external enclosure and use it for
logs, or send logs offsite (NFS, sshfs, etc) to another system, but at that
point you're better off with a "real" server.


On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> as a mirrored port capture though that shouldnt be an issue
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Eric Kuhnke 
> wrote:
>
>> People keep using raspberry Pi for things they're not suited for. The 100
>> Mbps Ethernet interface is attached to a USB2 bus. And it only has one
>> ethernet port. Yes I suppose you could add a second interface by another
>> USB dongle. If you really want to run wireshark and other stuff you're much
>> better off with a really 1RU small x86-64 system that has two real Intel
>> 1000BaseT NICs on board, and a couple of PCI-Express slots. Or a really
>> small desktop thing if it's a non rack environment, like a mini-itx
>> motherboard in a cube shaped case with an Intel-chipset 4x1000BaseT port
>> card.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a voip  pbx system issue im going to have to drop a long term
>>> packet sniffer onto the network to catch an issue that only happens like
>>> once in a month. So thats going to be alot of traffic (we have to capture
>>> everything to see if the issue has to do with other network traffic, so I
>>> cant even filter it out.
>>> I was thinking about making a pi a sniffer and just hang a  usb drive
>>> off of it for the archive.
>>>
>>> I dont see running a sniffer would be all that great a resource drain.
>>>
>>> Any reason this would be a bad idea, i could see it being a good tool to
>>> keep in our toolset. I just envision a little binder full of SD cards with
>>> purpose builds and a handful of pis for a handy toolbox
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi packetsniffer

[Steve Jones]

as a mirrored port capture though that shouldnt be an issue

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> People keep using raspberry Pi for things they're not suited for. The 100
> Mbps Ethernet interface is attached to a USB2 bus. And it only has one
> ethernet port. Yes I suppose you could add a second interface by another
> USB dongle. If you really want to run wireshark and other stuff you're much
> better off with a really 1RU small x86-64 system that has two real Intel
> 1000BaseT NICs on board, and a couple of PCI-Express slots. Or a really
> small desktop thing if it's a non rack environment, like a mini-itx
> motherboard in a cube shaped case with an Intel-chipset 4x1000BaseT port
> card.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> I have a voip  pbx system issue im going to have to drop a long term
>> packet sniffer onto the network to catch an issue that only happens like
>> once in a month. So thats going to be alot of traffic (we have to capture
>> everything to see if the issue has to do with other network traffic, so I
>> cant even filter it out.
>> I was thinking about making a pi a sniffer and just hang a  usb drive off
>> of it for the archive.
>>
>> I dont see running a sniffer would be all that great a resource drain.
>>
>> Any reason this would be a bad idea, i could see it being a good tool to
>> keep in our toolset. I just envision a little binder full of SD cards with
>> purpose builds and a handful of pis for a handy toolbox
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Weird Amazon Package return

[Seth Mattinen]

On 11/13/17 08:09, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
Are you more amazed about DVD's (vs Blu Ray) or amazed that physical 
media is still a thing?



I still use blu-rays because streaming usually skimps on the audio 
codec, like Dolby Digital Plus 5.1. Blah.

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi packetsniffer

[Eric Kuhnke]

People keep using raspberry Pi for things they're not suited for. The 100
Mbps Ethernet interface is attached to a USB2 bus. And it only has one
ethernet port. Yes I suppose you could add a second interface by another
USB dongle. If you really want to run wireshark and other stuff you're much
better off with a really 1RU small x86-64 system that has two real Intel
1000BaseT NICs on board, and a couple of PCI-Express slots. Or a really
small desktop thing if it's a non rack environment, like a mini-itx
motherboard in a cube shaped case with an Intel-chipset 4x1000BaseT port
card.


On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I have a voip  pbx system issue im going to have to drop a long term
> packet sniffer onto the network to catch an issue that only happens like
> once in a month. So thats going to be alot of traffic (we have to capture
> everything to see if the issue has to do with other network traffic, so I
> cant even filter it out.
> I was thinking about making a pi a sniffer and just hang a  usb drive off
> of it for the archive.
>
> I dont see running a sniffer would be all that great a resource drain.
>
> Any reason this would be a bad idea, i could see it being a good tool to
> keep in our toolset. I just envision a little binder full of SD cards with
> purpose builds and a handful of pis for a handy toolbox
>

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi packetsniffer

[Steve Jones]

Ive always set wireshark to buffer 100mb and white incremental pcaps. are
you talking about the sd write for memory usage?

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:31 AM, Josh Reynolds 
wrote:

> Recording traffic (headers) could easily exceed the write capability of
> the media.
>
> On Nov 13, 2017 11:28 AM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:
>
>> I have a voip  pbx system issue im going to have to drop a long term
>> packet sniffer onto the network to catch an issue that only happens like
>> once in a month. So thats going to be alot of traffic (we have to capture
>> everything to see if the issue has to do with other network traffic, so I
>> cant even filter it out.
>> I was thinking about making a pi a sniffer and just hang a  usb drive off
>> of it for the archive.
>>
>> I dont see running a sniffer would be all that great a resource drain.
>>
>> Any reason this would be a bad idea, i could see it being a good tool to
>> keep in our toolset. I just envision a little binder full of SD cards with
>> purpose builds and a handful of pis for a handy toolbox
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Weird Amazon Package return

[Steve Jones]

my kids like the cds and dvds in the basement, they zip through the air
pretty well. they dont shatter like my mom and dads vinyl did when they hit
the pavement, but they still shatter some. physical media will always have
its place. Especially now that the kids are getting into firearms, those
disks will make great targets. The daughter is taking up archery, so that
hole in the center will be an ideal target

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Josh Reynolds 
wrote:

> I think the last time I bought physical media of something was 2004. I'll
> buy a digital version and then store it in 2 or 3 places.
>
> I don't think my youngest two kids have ever touched an actual DVD or blue
> ray, and the eldest of those is 10 years old.
>
> On Nov 13, 2017 11:21 AM, "Jay Weekley"  wrote:
>
>> Not everything is on demand.
>>
>> Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>>> Both.
>>>
>>> On Nov 13, 2017 10:09 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
>>> li...@packetflux.com > wrote:
>>>
>>> Are you more amazed about DVD's (vs Blu Ray) or amazed that
>>> physical media is still a thing?
>>>
>>> There are some tv shows which a Blu Ray transfer isn't likely to
>>> happen anytime soon since the program was recorded using SD TV
>>> cameras instead of film.  For those, DVD is just as good as Blu-Ray.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Josh Reynolds
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm more amazed that in (almost) 2018 people are still buying
>>> DVDs.
>>>
>>> On Nov 13, 2017 8:59 AM, "Nate Burke" >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> I ordered a DVD from Amazon that came cracked (Prime,
>>> shipped from Amazon), so I returned it and they sent me a
>>> new one.  The UPS return label for the damaged disk had it
>>> being sent to a PO Box at the post office of a town of
>>> 1200 people in rural Illinois. When I checked the tracking
>>> info from UPS, I saw that the package had been re-routed
>>> once in UPS's possession to Lexington Ky, where I normally
>>> see Amazon returns go. I'm perplexed as to why it was
>>> initially going to be sent to this small town.  It's like
>>> Amazon was trying to Game UPS for cheaper shipping, but I
>>> can't imagine with the size
>>> 
>>> of the contract they surely
>>> have with UPS, it would be worth while to play games like
>>> that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
>>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT
>>> 
>>> 59602
>>> >> T+59602=gmail=g>
>>> forre...@imach.com  |
>>> http://www.packetflux.com 
>>> 
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >> rce=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>Virus-free.
>>> www.avg.com >> rce=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>>>
>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi packetsniffer

[Josh Reynolds]

Recording traffic (headers) could easily exceed the write capability of the
media.

On Nov 13, 2017 11:28 AM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

> I have a voip  pbx system issue im going to have to drop a long term
> packet sniffer onto the network to catch an issue that only happens like
> once in a month. So thats going to be alot of traffic (we have to capture
> everything to see if the issue has to do with other network traffic, so I
> cant even filter it out.
> I was thinking about making a pi a sniffer and just hang a  usb drive off
> of it for the archive.
>
> I dont see running a sniffer would be all that great a resource drain.
>
> Any reason this would be a bad idea, i could see it being a good tool to
> keep in our toolset. I just envision a little binder full of SD cards with
> purpose builds and a handful of pis for a handy toolbox
>

Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

[Steve Jones]

what did happen to butch?

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> They were highly recommended by Butch Evans, when Butch was entering into
> to a very busy time in his work life.
>
>
>
> Our initial talks with them were excellent, and maybe if we had pulled the
> trigger with them at the time, and gleamed the benefits of what they offer,
> I wouldn’t be asking now.
>
>
>
> We really appreciated Butch when he was available.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, November 13, 2017 11:01 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs
>
>
>
> I don't understand why you wouldn't just use a consultant within our
> industry, that's part of WISPA, that's knows their stuff, that other people
> use...
>
>
>
> I've never even heard of the IPA guys, never seen them at any show.
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> 
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
>
> Good info.  I agree with the network assessment time, etc.  We had spoken
> with IPA about doing this, and didn’t pull the trigger because we had
> bigger fish to fry at the time.  So, I re-asked the question.  I hear
> specific to IPA that they really don’t have a high satisfaction record
> among this group.   So, while this discussion morphed into charges for
> assessing the network, it wasn’t really the question, and I think people on
> here that are credible have described IPA as not quite having their act
> together at this time
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Justin Wilson
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 12, 2017 11:53 PM
>
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs
>
>
>
> Speaking from a consultant side it can be a little tricky with a new
> client.  I have been burned more than once thinking I was going to “hop in
> and fix it real quick”. Anymore, I want to build relationships with my
> clients.  One of the last ones was a guy calls me at midnight having a
> traffic issue.  He has two upstream pipes he wants to try and utilize and
> needs some BGP help.  It’s an emergency situation because he is maxing out
> one pipe and the other is barely being used. So, I talk with him for 45
> minutes on his drive home before he can give me remote access.  I then
> spend the next hour or so writing out diagrams on paper trying to learn his
> network as quickly as I can.
>
>
>
> I then make some BGP changes and see traffic change and watch it for
> another 15 minutes or so. By this time his prime time is starting to wind
> down a little so I can’t tell if it’s normal traffic utilization or I
> actually fixed it. I tell client I made changes, spent 15 minutes typing up
> said changes, and say I *think* I fixed it but don’t really know enough
> about the network to say I did.  Send client invoice and say let me know
> and we can look again at no charge.
>
>
>
> Three days later I get a nasty e-mail saying I didn’t fix it, goes on and
> on how he can prove I didn’t fix it blah blah.  Oh, and by the way his
> normal consultant logged in and fixed it. Well yeah because the normal guy
> knows a whole lot more about the network than I did.
>
>
>
> Another off the street client had me look at some drop out issues.  Again,
> same story.  I have never touched the network and he calls me saying
> traffic just randomly stops for a second or two at a time.  Start looking
> at things, start from the easiest things to look at.  Spend 3 hours or so
> making sure configs are correct, etc.  Bill client and say get back to me.
> Sends me a nasty gram 3 months later saying it was the switch the routers
> were hooked into and they had buffer issues.  Why did I not tell him to
> replace the switch within the first hour?!?!?!
>
>
>
> These are just a few examples.  Us WISP consultants are a small bunch and
> we all know each other.  My advice is you need to find a consultant you can
> build a relationship with that works for BOTH of you.  My regular clients
> know I pick up the phone in a pinch and am fair with them.  However, they
> have taken the time and effort to build the relationship on their side
> too.  Anyone new who calls me that is looking for someone to answer the
> phone in that pinch automatically starts out with a 3-5 network evaluation.
> I don’t go as far as labbing everything up, but I make sure the
> documentation is spot on.  I still do the small break fixes, etc. but I am
> much more cautious about things.  We all have our own way of doing stuff.
> Some people and I don’t click.  Some do.  I am sure that is the same with
> any other consultant.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Justin Wilson
>
> j...@mtin.net
>
>
>
> j2sw.com
>
> www.mtin.net
>
> www.midwest-ix.com
>
>
>
> On Nov 9, 

[AFMUG] rasberry pi packetsniffer

[Steve Jones]

I have a voip  pbx system issue im going to have to drop a long term packet
sniffer onto the network to catch an issue that only happens like once in a
month. So thats going to be alot of traffic (we have to capture everything
to see if the issue has to do with other network traffic, so I cant even
filter it out.
I was thinking about making a pi a sniffer and just hang a  usb drive off
of it for the archive.

I dont see running a sniffer would be all that great a resource drain.

Any reason this would be a bad idea, i could see it being a good tool to
keep in our toolset. I just envision a little binder full of SD cards with
purpose builds and a handful of pis for a handy toolbox

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Weird Amazon Package return

[Josh Reynolds]

I think the last time I bought physical media of something was 2004. I'll
buy a digital version and then store it in 2 or 3 places.

I don't think my youngest two kids have ever touched an actual DVD or blue
ray, and the eldest of those is 10 years old.

On Nov 13, 2017 11:21 AM, "Jay Weekley"  wrote:

> Not everything is on demand.
>
> Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
>> Both.
>>
>> On Nov 13, 2017 10:09 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
>> li...@packetflux.com > wrote:
>>
>> Are you more amazed about DVD's (vs Blu Ray) or amazed that
>> physical media is still a thing?
>>
>> There are some tv shows which a Blu Ray transfer isn't likely to
>> happen anytime soon since the program was recorded using SD TV
>> cameras instead of film.  For those, DVD is just as good as Blu-Ray.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Josh Reynolds
>> > wrote:
>>
>> I'm more amazed that in (almost) 2018 people are still buying
>> DVDs.
>>
>> On Nov 13, 2017 8:59 AM, "Nate Burke" > > wrote:
>>
>> I ordered a DVD from Amazon that came cracked (Prime,
>> shipped from Amazon), so I returned it and they sent me a
>> new one.  The UPS return label for the damaged disk had it
>> being sent to a PO Box at the post office of a town of
>> 1200 people in rural Illinois. When I checked the tracking
>> info from UPS, I saw that the package had been re-routed
>> once in UPS's possession to Lexington Ky, where I normally
>> see Amazon returns go. I'm perplexed as to why it was
>> initially going to be sent to this small town.  It's like
>> Amazon was trying to Game UPS for cheaper shipping, but I
>> can't imagine with the size
>> 
>> of the contract they surely
>> have with UPS, it would be worth while to play games like
>> that.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT
>> 59602
>> > MT+59602=gmail=g>
>> forre...@imach.com  |
>> http://www.packetflux.com 
>> 
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>> Virus-free. www.avg.com > ature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-
>> email_content=emailclient>
>>
>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Weird Amazon Package return

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

especially in rural america

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jay Weekley 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 11:21 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Weird Amazon Package return


  Not everything is on demand.

  Josh Reynolds wrote:
  > Both.
  >
  > On Nov 13, 2017 10:09 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
  > > wrote:
  >
  > Are you more amazed about DVD's (vs Blu Ray) or amazed that
  > physical media is still a thing?
  >
  > There are some tv shows which a Blu Ray transfer isn't likely to
  > happen anytime soon since the program was recorded using SD TV
  > cameras instead of film.  For those, DVD is just as good as Blu-Ray.
  >
  > On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Josh Reynolds
  > > wrote:
  >
  > I'm more amazed that in (almost) 2018 people are still buying
  > DVDs.
  >
  > On Nov 13, 2017 8:59 AM, "Nate Burke"  > wrote:
  >
  > I ordered a DVD from Amazon that came cracked (Prime,
  > shipped from Amazon), so I returned it and they sent me a
  > new one.  The UPS return label for the damaged disk had it
  > being sent to a PO Box at the post office of a town of
  > 1200 people in rural Illinois. When I checked the tracking
  > info from UPS, I saw that the package had been re-routed
  > once in UPS's possession to Lexington Ky, where I normally
  > see Amazon returns go. I'm perplexed as to why it was
  > initially going to be sent to this small town.  It's like
  > Amazon was trying to Game UPS for cheaper shipping, but I
  > can't imagine with the size of the contract they surely
  > have with UPS, it would be worth while to play games like
  > that.
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > -- 
  > *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
  > Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT
  > 59602
  > 

  > forre...@imach.com  |
  > http://www.packetflux.com 
  > 
  >  
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > 

 
  > Virus-free. www.avg.com 
  > 

 
  >
  >
  > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Weird Amazon Package return

[Jay Weekley]

Not everything is on demand.

Josh Reynolds wrote:

Both.

On Nov 13, 2017 10:09 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> wrote:


Are you more amazed about DVD's (vs Blu Ray) or amazed that
physical media is still a thing?

There are some tv shows which a Blu Ray transfer isn't likely to
happen anytime soon since the program was recorded using SD TV
cameras instead of film.  For those, DVD is just as good as Blu-Ray.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Josh Reynolds
> wrote:

I'm more amazed that in (almost) 2018 people are still buying
DVDs.

On Nov 13, 2017 8:59 AM, "Nate Burke" > wrote:

I ordered a DVD from Amazon that came cracked (Prime,
shipped from Amazon), so I returned it and they sent me a
new one.  The UPS return label for the damaged disk had it
being sent to a PO Box at the post office of a town of
1200 people in rural Illinois. When I checked the tracking
info from UPS, I saw that the package had been re-routed
once in UPS's possession to Lexington Ky, where I normally
see Amazon returns go. I'm perplexed as to why it was
initially going to be sent to this small town.  It's like
Amazon was trying to Game UPS for cheaper shipping, but I
can't imagine with the size of the contract they surely
have with UPS, it would be worth while to play games like
that.




-- 
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT
59602


forre...@imach.com  |
http://www.packetflux.com 

 




 
	Virus-free. www.avg.com 
 



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Weird Amazon Package return

[Josh Reynolds]

Both.

On Nov 13, 2017 10:09 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

Are you more amazed about DVD's (vs Blu Ray) or amazed that physical media
is still a thing?

There are some tv shows which a Blu Ray transfer isn't likely to happen
anytime soon since the program was recorded using SD TV cameras instead of
film.  For those, DVD is just as good as Blu-Ray.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> I'm more amazed that in (almost) 2018 people are still buying DVDs.
>
> On Nov 13, 2017 8:59 AM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:
>
>> I ordered a DVD from Amazon that came cracked (Prime, shipped from
>> Amazon), so I returned it and they sent me a new one.  The UPS return label
>> for the damaged disk had it being sent to a PO Box at the post office of a
>> town of 1200 people in rural Illinois.  When I checked the tracking info
>> from UPS, I saw that the package had been re-routed once in UPS's
>> possession to Lexington Ky, where I normally see Amazon returns go.  I'm
>> perplexed as to why it was initially going to be sent to this small town.
>> It's like Amazon was trying to Game UPS for cheaper shipping, but I can't
>> imagine with the size of the contract they surely have with UPS, it would
>> be worth while to play games like that.
>>
>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602

forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux RackInjector

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Maybe, maybe not.How's that for an answer?

Generally when radios have problems maintaining 1 gig w/sync over power
it's related to either a surge supressor tripping, or an oversensitive
switch.   It's hard to tell without knowing exactly the cause of the link
dropping to 10/100 whether moving to a 4 pin power arrangement will help.

What will for sure help is moving to cambium sync when we have a board
ready for it in the next month or so.  But that's a different discussion.





On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:25 AM, Matt  wrote:

> Looking at page 3:
>
> http://products.packetflux.com/rackinjector/RI-PIPS-Appendix-20170911.pdf
>
> Will port 2 POE jumper settings have a better chance of maintaining
> 1gbps with sync over power on a PTP450i then port 1 jumper settings?
>



-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

[Paul McCall]

They were highly recommended by Butch Evans, when Butch was entering into to a 
very busy time in his work life.

Our initial talks with them were excellent, and maybe if we had pulled the 
trigger with them at the time, and gleamed the benefits of what they offer, I 
wouldn’t be asking now.

We really appreciated Butch when he was available.

Paul

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 11:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

I don't understand why you wouldn't just use a consultant within our industry, 
that's part of WISPA, that's knows their stuff, that other people use...

I've never even heard of the IPA guys, never seen them at any show.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Paul McCall 
> wrote:
Good info.  I agree with the network assessment time, etc.  We had spoken with 
IPA about doing this, and didn’t pull the trigger because we had bigger fish to 
fry at the time.  So, I re-asked the question.  I hear specific to IPA that 
they really don’t have a high satisfaction record among this group.   So, while 
this discussion morphed into charges for assessing the network, it wasn’t 
really the question, and I think people on here that are credible have 
described IPA as not quite having their act together at this time

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Justin Wilson
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2017 11:53 PM

To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

Speaking from a consultant side it can be a little tricky with a new client.  I 
have been burned more than once thinking I was going to “hop in and fix it real 
quick”. Anymore, I want to build relationships with my clients.  One of the 
last ones was a guy calls me at midnight having a traffic issue.  He has two 
upstream pipes he wants to try and utilize and needs some BGP help.  It’s an 
emergency situation because he is maxing out one pipe and the other is barely 
being used. So, I talk with him for 45 minutes on his drive home before he can 
give me remote access.  I then spend the next hour or so writing out diagrams 
on paper trying to learn his network as quickly as I can.

I then make some BGP changes and see traffic change and watch it for another 15 
minutes or so. By this time his prime time is starting to wind down a little so 
I can’t tell if it’s normal traffic utilization or I actually fixed it. I tell 
client I made changes, spent 15 minutes typing up said changes, and say I 
*think* I fixed it but don’t really know enough about the network to say I did. 
 Send client invoice and say let me know and we can look again at no charge.

Three days later I get a nasty e-mail saying I didn’t fix it, goes on and on 
how he can prove I didn’t fix it blah blah.  Oh, and by the way his normal 
consultant logged in and fixed it. Well yeah because the normal guy knows a 
whole lot more about the network than I did.

Another off the street client had me look at some drop out issues.  Again, same 
story.  I have never touched the network and he calls me saying traffic just 
randomly stops for a second or two at a time.  Start looking at things, start 
from the easiest things to look at.  Spend 3 hours or so making sure configs 
are correct, etc.  Bill client and say get back to me.  Sends me a nasty gram 3 
months later saying it was the switch the routers were hooked into and they had 
buffer issues.  Why did I not tell him to replace the switch within the first 
hour?!?!?!

These are just a few examples.  Us WISP consultants are a small bunch and we 
all know each other.  My advice is you need to find a consultant you can build 
a relationship with that works for BOTH of you.  My regular clients know I pick 
up the phone in a pinch and am fair with them.  However, they have taken the 
time and effort to build the relationship on their side too.  Anyone new who 
calls me that is looking for someone to answer the phone in that pinch 
automatically starts out with a 3-5 network evaluation. I don’t go as far as 
labbing everything up, but I make sure the documentation is spot on.  I still 
do the small break fixes, etc. but I am much more cautious about things.  We 
all have our own way of doing stuff.  Some people and I don’t click.  Some do.  
I am sure that is the same with any other consultant.



Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

j2sw.com
www.mtin.net
www.midwest-ix.com

On Nov 9, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:

Similar case with me which I kind of already pointed out.

They couldn’t figure out a BGP issue and wanted to virtualize and put in a lab 
and spend hours on top of hours analyzing.

I stopped them right 

[AFMUG] PacketFlux RackInjector

[Matt]

Looking at page 3:

http://products.packetflux.com/rackinjector/RI-PIPS-Appendix-20170911.pdf

Will port 2 POE jumper settings have a better chance of maintaining
1gbps with sync over power on a PTP450i then port 1 jumper settings?

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Weird Amazon Package return

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Are you more amazed about DVD's (vs Blu Ray) or amazed that physical media
is still a thing?

There are some tv shows which a Blu Ray transfer isn't likely to happen
anytime soon since the program was recorded using SD TV cameras instead of
film.  For those, DVD is just as good as Blu-Ray.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> I'm more amazed that in (almost) 2018 people are still buying DVDs.
>
> On Nov 13, 2017 8:59 AM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:
>
>> I ordered a DVD from Amazon that came cracked (Prime, shipped from
>> Amazon), so I returned it and they sent me a new one.  The UPS return label
>> for the damaged disk had it being sent to a PO Box at the post office of a
>> town of 1200 people in rural Illinois.  When I checked the tracking info
>> from UPS, I saw that the package had been re-routed once in UPS's
>> possession to Lexington Ky, where I normally see Amazon returns go.  I'm
>> perplexed as to why it was initially going to be sent to this small town.
>> It's like Amazon was trying to Game UPS for cheaper shipping, but I can't
>> imagine with the size of the contract they surely have with UPS, it would
>> be worth while to play games like that.
>>
>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

[Josh Luthman]

I don't understand why you wouldn't just use a consultant within our
industry, that's part of WISPA, that's knows their stuff, that other people
use...

I've never even heard of the IPA guys, never seen them at any show.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> Good info.  I agree with the network assessment time, etc.  We had spoken
> with IPA about doing this, and didn’t pull the trigger because we had
> bigger fish to fry at the time.  So, I re-asked the question.  I hear
> specific to IPA that they really don’t have a high satisfaction record
> among this group.   So, while this discussion morphed into charges for
> assessing the network, it wasn’t really the question, and I think people on
> here that are credible have described IPA as not quite having their act
> together at this time
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Justin Wilson
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 12, 2017 11:53 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs
>
>
>
> Speaking from a consultant side it can be a little tricky with a new
> client.  I have been burned more than once thinking I was going to “hop in
> and fix it real quick”. Anymore, I want to build relationships with my
> clients.  One of the last ones was a guy calls me at midnight having a
> traffic issue.  He has two upstream pipes he wants to try and utilize and
> needs some BGP help.  It’s an emergency situation because he is maxing out
> one pipe and the other is barely being used. So, I talk with him for 45
> minutes on his drive home before he can give me remote access.  I then
> spend the next hour or so writing out diagrams on paper trying to learn his
> network as quickly as I can.
>
>
>
> I then make some BGP changes and see traffic change and watch it for
> another 15 minutes or so. By this time his prime time is starting to wind
> down a little so I can’t tell if it’s normal traffic utilization or I
> actually fixed it. I tell client I made changes, spent 15 minutes typing up
> said changes, and say I *think* I fixed it but don’t really know enough
> about the network to say I did.  Send client invoice and say let me know
> and we can look again at no charge.
>
>
>
> Three days later I get a nasty e-mail saying I didn’t fix it, goes on and
> on how he can prove I didn’t fix it blah blah.  Oh, and by the way his
> normal consultant logged in and fixed it. Well yeah because the normal guy
> knows a whole lot more about the network than I did.
>
>
>
> Another off the street client had me look at some drop out issues.  Again,
> same story.  I have never touched the network and he calls me saying
> traffic just randomly stops for a second or two at a time.  Start looking
> at things, start from the easiest things to look at.  Spend 3 hours or so
> making sure configs are correct, etc.  Bill client and say get back to me.
> Sends me a nasty gram 3 months later saying it was the switch the routers
> were hooked into and they had buffer issues.  Why did I not tell him to
> replace the switch within the first hour?!?!?!
>
>
>
> These are just a few examples.  Us WISP consultants are a small bunch and
> we all know each other.  My advice is you need to find a consultant you can
> build a relationship with that works for BOTH of you.  My regular clients
> know I pick up the phone in a pinch and am fair with them.  However, they
> have taken the time and effort to build the relationship on their side
> too.  Anyone new who calls me that is looking for someone to answer the
> phone in that pinch automatically starts out with a 3-5 network evaluation.
> I don’t go as far as labbing everything up, but I make sure the
> documentation is spot on.  I still do the small break fixes, etc. but I am
> much more cautious about things.  We all have our own way of doing stuff.
> Some people and I don’t click.  Some do.  I am sure that is the same with
> any other consultant.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Justin Wilson
>
> j...@mtin.net
>
>
>
> j2sw.com
>
> www.mtin.net
>
> www.midwest-ix.com
>
>
>
> On Nov 9, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Similar case with me which I kind of already pointed out.
>
>
>
> They couldn’t figure out a BGP issue and wanted to virtualize and put in a
> lab and spend hours on top of hours analyzing.
>
>
>
> I stopped them right there and said no thanks to that.
>
>
>
> Then I called Dennis and he took a few minutes, found out it likely wasn’t
> my problem, and worked with my upstream provider to fix it.
>
>
>
> And it was fixed after some emails back and forth between all of us.
>
>
>
> I asked IPArchitechs to refund me since they had charged me hundreds of
> dollars to get nowhere.
>
> One of their sales guys made out a personal check to me for some reason,
> claiming his reputation was on the line or something like that.
>
> I think it was a shady play 

Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

[Paul McCall]

Good info.  I agree with the network assessment time, etc.  We had spoken with 
IPA about doing this, and didn’t pull the trigger because we had bigger fish to 
fry at the time.  So, I re-asked the question.  I hear specific to IPA that 
they really don’t have a high satisfaction record among this group.   So, while 
this discussion morphed into charges for assessing the network, it wasn’t 
really the question, and I think people on here that are credible have 
described IPA as not quite having their act together at this time

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2017 11:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

Speaking from a consultant side it can be a little tricky with a new client.  I 
have been burned more than once thinking I was going to “hop in and fix it real 
quick”. Anymore, I want to build relationships with my clients.  One of the 
last ones was a guy calls me at midnight having a traffic issue.  He has two 
upstream pipes he wants to try and utilize and needs some BGP help.  It’s an 
emergency situation because he is maxing out one pipe and the other is barely 
being used. So, I talk with him for 45 minutes on his drive home before he can 
give me remote access.  I then spend the next hour or so writing out diagrams 
on paper trying to learn his network as quickly as I can.

I then make some BGP changes and see traffic change and watch it for another 15 
minutes or so. By this time his prime time is starting to wind down a little so 
I can’t tell if it’s normal traffic utilization or I actually fixed it. I tell 
client I made changes, spent 15 minutes typing up said changes, and say I 
*think* I fixed it but don’t really know enough about the network to say I did. 
 Send client invoice and say let me know and we can look again at no charge.

Three days later I get a nasty e-mail saying I didn’t fix it, goes on and on 
how he can prove I didn’t fix it blah blah.  Oh, and by the way his normal 
consultant logged in and fixed it. Well yeah because the normal guy knows a 
whole lot more about the network than I did.

Another off the street client had me look at some drop out issues.  Again, same 
story.  I have never touched the network and he calls me saying traffic just 
randomly stops for a second or two at a time.  Start looking at things, start 
from the easiest things to look at.  Spend 3 hours or so making sure configs 
are correct, etc.  Bill client and say get back to me.  Sends me a nasty gram 3 
months later saying it was the switch the routers were hooked into and they had 
buffer issues.  Why did I not tell him to replace the switch within the first 
hour?!?!?!

These are just a few examples.  Us WISP consultants are a small bunch and we 
all know each other.  My advice is you need to find a consultant you can build 
a relationship with that works for BOTH of you.  My regular clients know I pick 
up the phone in a pinch and am fair with them.  However, they have taken the 
time and effort to build the relationship on their side too.  Anyone new who 
calls me that is looking for someone to answer the phone in that pinch 
automatically starts out with a 3-5 network evaluation. I don’t go as far as 
labbing everything up, but I make sure the documentation is spot on.  I still 
do the small break fixes, etc. but I am much more cautious about things.  We 
all have our own way of doing stuff.  Some people and I don’t click.  Some do.  
I am sure that is the same with any other consultant.



Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

j2sw.com
www.mtin.net
www.midwest-ix.com


On Nov 9, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:

Similar case with me which I kind of already pointed out.

They couldn’t figure out a BGP issue and wanted to virtualize and put in a lab 
and spend hours on top of hours analyzing.

I stopped them right there and said no thanks to that.

Then I called Dennis and he took a few minutes, found out it likely wasn’t my 
problem, and worked with my upstream provider to fix it.

And it was fixed after some emails back and forth between all of us.

I asked IPArchitechs to refund me since they had charged me hundreds of dollars 
to get nowhere.
One of their sales guys made out a personal check to me for some reason, 
claiming his reputation was on the line or something like that.
I think it was a shady play at emotions, but I don’t have many emotions, so it 
didn’t work with me, lol!

I took whatever little money they could refund me, however they wanted to 
refund and ‘play’ that.
Then they gave me credit which I still have, to use.

Likely I’ll not be doing BGP stuff with them, but maybe they will do something 
more benign, like standard server work.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
can...@believewireless.net
Sent: 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Weird Amazon Package return

[Josh Reynolds]

I'm more amazed that in (almost) 2018 people are still buying DVDs.

On Nov 13, 2017 8:59 AM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:

> I ordered a DVD from Amazon that came cracked (Prime, shipped from
> Amazon), so I returned it and they sent me a new one.  The UPS return label
> for the damaged disk had it being sent to a PO Box at the post office of a
> town of 1200 people in rural Illinois.  When I checked the tracking info
> from UPS, I saw that the package had been re-routed once in UPS's
> possession to Lexington Ky, where I normally see Amazon returns go.  I'm
> perplexed as to why it was initially going to be sent to this small town.
> It's like Amazon was trying to Game UPS for cheaper shipping, but I can't
> imagine with the size of the contract they surely have with UPS, it would
> be worth while to play games like that.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Weird Amazon Package return

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Was looking for an order that I sent back which was similar to see if it
had been re-routed.  Somehow I suspect it migt have been that UPS didn't
know how to deliver to a PO box so amazon re-routed it.   BTW, a re-route
by UPS is definitely not cheaper, unless amazon has negotiated that fee
away.



On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Was it *sold* by amazon or *shipped* by amazon.   Subtle difference, which
> may explain the difference here (I've had various returns go back to the
> seller if they are just being fulfilled by amazon).
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> I ordered a DVD from Amazon that came cracked (Prime, shipped from
>> Amazon), so I returned it and they sent me a new one.  The UPS return label
>> for the damaged disk had it being sent to a PO Box at the post office of a
>> town of 1200 people in rural Illinois.  When I checked the tracking info
>> from UPS, I saw that the package had been re-routed once in UPS's
>> possession to Lexington Ky, where I normally see Amazon returns go.  I'm
>> perplexed as to why it was initially going to be sent to this small town.
>> It's like Amazon was trying to Game UPS for cheaper shipping, but I can't
>> imagine with the size of the contract they surely have with UPS, it would
>> be worth while to play games like that.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> 
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Weird Amazon Package return

[Adam Moffett]

Reminds me of when I was looking at ATA's from a company called Tiger 
Net.  It was clearly a Chinese company, but they had an Ithaca, NY 
address on the website which isn't that far from me, so I drove over 
thinking "how convenient".  It was just some guy's apartment near the 
Cornell campus.  He was a relative of somebody at the company and they 
used his address to ship packages back and forth because some US 
companies wouldn't ship internationally.


Anyway, I imagine the opposite of you.  The size of their contract with 
UPS might actually make it worthwhile to play games.  Maybe there's a 
regular UPS truck going down the interstate to Lexington and passing 
through that small town, then maybe hitting that PO Box first with USPS 
saves them a nickel with UPS.  Maybe a nickel times 10,000 packages 
makes a difference.


Maybe it's not playing games so much as intensely well thought 
logistics.


-- Original Message --
From: "Nate Burke" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Sent: 11/13/2017 9:59:15 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Weird Amazon Package return

I ordered a DVD from Amazon that came cracked (Prime, shipped from 
Amazon), so I returned it and they sent me a new one.  The UPS return 
label for the damaged disk had it being sent to a PO Box at the post 
office of a town of 1200 people in rural Illinois.  When I checked the 
tracking info from UPS, I saw that the package had been re-routed once 
in UPS's possession to Lexington Ky, where I normally see Amazon 
returns go.  I'm perplexed as to why it was initially going to be sent 
to this small town.  It's like Amazon was trying to Game UPS for 
cheaper shipping, but I can't imagine with the size of the contract 
they surely have with UPS, it would be worth while to play games like 
that.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Weird Amazon Package return

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Was it *sold* by amazon or *shipped* by amazon.   Subtle difference, which
may explain the difference here (I've had various returns go back to the
seller if they are just being fulfilled by amazon).


On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:

> I ordered a DVD from Amazon that came cracked (Prime, shipped from
> Amazon), so I returned it and they sent me a new one.  The UPS return label
> for the damaged disk had it being sent to a PO Box at the post office of a
> town of 1200 people in rural Illinois.  When I checked the tracking info
> from UPS, I saw that the package had been re-routed once in UPS's
> possession to Lexington Ky, where I normally see Amazon returns go.  I'm
> perplexed as to why it was initially going to be sent to this small town.
> It's like Amazon was trying to Game UPS for cheaper shipping, but I can't
> imagine with the size of the contract they surely have with UPS, it would
> be worth while to play games like that.
>



-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

[AFMUG] OT: Weird Amazon Package return

[Nate Burke]

I ordered a DVD from Amazon that came cracked (Prime, shipped from 
Amazon), so I returned it and they sent me a new one.  The UPS return 
label for the damaged disk had it being sent to a PO Box at the post 
office of a town of 1200 people in rural Illinois.  When I checked the 
tracking info from UPS, I saw that the package had been re-routed once 
in UPS's possession to Lexington Ky, where I normally see Amazon returns 
go.  I'm perplexed as to why it was initially going to be sent to this 
small town.  It's like Amazon was trying to Game UPS for cheaper 
shipping, but I can't imagine with the size of the contract they surely 
have with UPS, it would be worth while to play games like that.

Re: [AFMUG] Handhole hook

[Chuck McCown]

That is  the purpose of this road trip.  Find out where an empty conduit 
terminates.  

From: can...@believewireless.net 
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2017 4:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Handhole hook

You feel like opening up handholes while on road trips?

On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  On a road trip today and realized I left my hand hole hook behind.
  Went to a Flying J truck stop and got a 5th wheel pin checker.  Opened the 
hook a bit and it is a perfect too.  Chrome plated too!
  $19.95

Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

[Steve Jones]

After a couple months our consultant that did the bgp still hadnt sent an
invoice, afaik still hasnt. He never sent a bill for the pre labor
consultation where we discussed what was needed, what our expectations
were, and review of the documentation. The actual labor was maybe an hour,
plus one emergency breakfix call.
I was super satisfied, and emailed a few times asking for the bill. The
only times we dont bill for consultation is when we are writing off a
customer we dont want to deal with. Maybe they dont want to deal with us
again, but thats a few grand of coin.
I add this, because i think hiring consultants is just a ymmv situation for
everyone.

On Nov 13, 2017 7:30 AM, "Adair Winter"  wrote:

> Well said, Justin.
>
> The little bit of consulting I've done has shown me that it's hard to take
> in to account everything about a network if it's not decently  documented.
> Otherwise it does take time. Sometimes without labbing stuff your taking a
> gamble with your production network.
>
> On Nov 12, 2017 10:53 PM, "Justin Wilson"  wrote:
>
>> Speaking from a consultant side it can be a little tricky with a new
>> client.  I have been burned more than once thinking I was going to “hop in
>> and fix it real quick”. Anymore, I want to build relationships with my
>> clients.  One of the last ones was a guy calls me at midnight having a
>> traffic issue.  He has two upstream pipes he wants to try and utilize and
>> needs some BGP help.  It’s an emergency situation because he is maxing out
>> one pipe and the other is barely being used. So, I talk with him for 45
>> minutes on his drive home before he can give me remote access.  I then
>> spend the next hour or so writing out diagrams on paper trying to learn his
>> network as quickly as I can.
>>
>> I then make some BGP changes and see traffic change and watch it for
>> another 15 minutes or so. By this time his prime time is starting to wind
>> down a little so I can’t tell if it’s normal traffic utilization or I
>> actually fixed it. I tell client I made changes, spent 15 minutes typing up
>> said changes, and say I *think* I fixed it but don’t really know enough
>> about the network to say I did.  Send client invoice and say let me know
>> and we can look again at no charge.
>>
>> Three days later I get a nasty e-mail saying I didn’t fix it, goes on and
>> on how he can prove I didn’t fix it blah blah.  Oh, and by the way his
>> normal consultant logged in and fixed it. Well yeah because the normal guy
>> knows a whole lot more about the network than I did.
>>
>> Another off the street client had me look at some drop out issues.
>> Again, same story.  I have never touched the network and he calls me saying
>> traffic just randomly stops for a second or two at a time.  Start looking
>> at things, start from the easiest things to look at.  Spend 3 hours or so
>> making sure configs are correct, etc.  Bill client and say get back to me.
>> Sends me a nasty gram 3 months later saying it was the switch the routers
>> were hooked into and they had buffer issues.  Why did I not tell him to
>> replace the switch within the first hour?!?!?!
>>
>> These are just a few examples.  Us WISP consultants are a small bunch and
>> we all know each other.  My advice is you need to find a consultant you can
>> build a relationship with that works for BOTH of you.  My regular clients
>> know I pick up the phone in a pinch and am fair with them.  However, they
>> have taken the time and effort to build the relationship on their side
>> too.  Anyone new who calls me that is looking for someone to answer the
>> phone in that pinch automatically starts out with a 3-5 network evaluation.
>> I don’t go as far as labbing everything up, but I make sure the
>> documentation is spot on.  I still do the small break fixes, etc. but I am
>> much more cautious about things.  We all have our own way of doing stuff.
>> Some people and I don’t click.  Some do.  I am sure that is the same with
>> any other consultant.
>>
>>
>>
>> Justin Wilson
>> j...@mtin.net
>>
>> j2sw.com
>> www.mtin.net
>> www.midwest-ix.com
>>
>> On Nov 9, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Similar case with me which I kind of already pointed out.
>>
>> They couldn’t figure out a BGP issue and wanted to virtualize and put in
>> a lab and spend hours on top of hours analyzing.
>>
>> I stopped them right there and said no thanks to that.
>>
>> Then I called Dennis and he took a few minutes, found out it likely
>> wasn’t my problem, and worked with my upstream provider to fix it.
>>
>> And it was fixed after some emails back and forth between all of us.
>>
>> I asked IPArchitechs to refund me since they had charged me hundreds of
>> dollars to get nowhere.
>> One of their sales guys made out a personal check to me for some reason,
>> claiming his reputation was on the line or something like that.
>> I think it was a shady play at emotions, 

Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

[Adair Winter]

Well said, Justin.

The little bit of consulting I've done has shown me that it's hard to take
in to account everything about a network if it's not decently  documented.
Otherwise it does take time. Sometimes without labbing stuff your taking a
gamble with your production network.

On Nov 12, 2017 10:53 PM, "Justin Wilson"  wrote:

> Speaking from a consultant side it can be a little tricky with a new
> client.  I have been burned more than once thinking I was going to “hop in
> and fix it real quick”. Anymore, I want to build relationships with my
> clients.  One of the last ones was a guy calls me at midnight having a
> traffic issue.  He has two upstream pipes he wants to try and utilize and
> needs some BGP help.  It’s an emergency situation because he is maxing out
> one pipe and the other is barely being used. So, I talk with him for 45
> minutes on his drive home before he can give me remote access.  I then
> spend the next hour or so writing out diagrams on paper trying to learn his
> network as quickly as I can.
>
> I then make some BGP changes and see traffic change and watch it for
> another 15 minutes or so. By this time his prime time is starting to wind
> down a little so I can’t tell if it’s normal traffic utilization or I
> actually fixed it. I tell client I made changes, spent 15 minutes typing up
> said changes, and say I *think* I fixed it but don’t really know enough
> about the network to say I did.  Send client invoice and say let me know
> and we can look again at no charge.
>
> Three days later I get a nasty e-mail saying I didn’t fix it, goes on and
> on how he can prove I didn’t fix it blah blah.  Oh, and by the way his
> normal consultant logged in and fixed it. Well yeah because the normal guy
> knows a whole lot more about the network than I did.
>
> Another off the street client had me look at some drop out issues.  Again,
> same story.  I have never touched the network and he calls me saying
> traffic just randomly stops for a second or two at a time.  Start looking
> at things, start from the easiest things to look at.  Spend 3 hours or so
> making sure configs are correct, etc.  Bill client and say get back to me.
> Sends me a nasty gram 3 months later saying it was the switch the routers
> were hooked into and they had buffer issues.  Why did I not tell him to
> replace the switch within the first hour?!?!?!
>
> These are just a few examples.  Us WISP consultants are a small bunch and
> we all know each other.  My advice is you need to find a consultant you can
> build a relationship with that works for BOTH of you.  My regular clients
> know I pick up the phone in a pinch and am fair with them.  However, they
> have taken the time and effort to build the relationship on their side
> too.  Anyone new who calls me that is looking for someone to answer the
> phone in that pinch automatically starts out with a 3-5 network evaluation.
> I don’t go as far as labbing everything up, but I make sure the
> documentation is spot on.  I still do the small break fixes, etc. but I am
> much more cautious about things.  We all have our own way of doing stuff.
> Some people and I don’t click.  Some do.  I am sure that is the same with
> any other consultant.
>
>
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> j2sw.com
> www.mtin.net
> www.midwest-ix.com
>
> On Nov 9, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
> Similar case with me which I kind of already pointed out.
>
> They couldn’t figure out a BGP issue and wanted to virtualize and put in a
> lab and spend hours on top of hours analyzing.
>
> I stopped them right there and said no thanks to that.
>
> Then I called Dennis and he took a few minutes, found out it likely wasn’t
> my problem, and worked with my upstream provider to fix it.
>
> And it was fixed after some emails back and forth between all of us.
>
> I asked IPArchitechs to refund me since they had charged me hundreds of
> dollars to get nowhere.
> One of their sales guys made out a personal check to me for some reason,
> claiming his reputation was on the line or something like that.
> I think it was a shady play at emotions, but I don’t have many emotions,
> so it didn’t work with me, lol!
>
> I took whatever little money they could refund me, however they wanted to
> refund and ‘play’ that.
> Then they gave me credit which I still have, to use.
>
> Likely I’ll not be doing BGP stuff with them, but maybe they will do
> something more benign, like standard server work.
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *can...@believewireless.net
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 9, 2017 10:01 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs
>
> We used them once and we weren't happy. I wanted to give them a try to see
> how they compared to others.
> What I thought was a simple BGP issue that could have been handled with a
> 15-30 minute phone call ended
> up taking over two weeks. They "needed" 

Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

[Lewis Bergman]

Yea. I had some guy from Canada call me once asking me to fix his network.
Ask for docs and he said his Dude server had perfect network docs. OK, no
dumb switches anywhere huh? First segment I log into and start pulling
bridge tables to check the layout I find that things don't add up. Found
two switches he had "forgotten about" and OSPF was all hosed up, some
routes were distribute connected some were not. Timeouts were different so
flapping was a real issue. Hey, pick one so you can get a method going you
know?

Anyway, I burned through $1k just on this one little segment but learned
enough to basically document that segment, how it was, how I changed it,
and its current status. Then told him he couldn't afford for me to do the
whole thing. I could basically train him for a few more hours on how I did
what I did and what to look for but that he needed to find someone, learn
it himself, hire someone. I just knew I didn't have the patience for that
kind of work.

I have no idea if he ever got things under control. Hope so as I doubt he
is still in business if not.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 3:27 AM Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> Agree with this method 100%.
>
> Rarely can you hop in a fix something with little info. Spending time to
> learn about the customer and not just their current needs goes a long way
> toward creating a good business relationship. Both parties end up happier.
>
> On Nov 12, 2017 10:53 PM, "Justin Wilson"  wrote:
>
> Speaking from a consultant side it can be a little tricky with a new
> client.  I have been burned more than once thinking I was going to “hop in
> and fix it real quick”. Anymore, I want to build relationships with my
> clients.  One of the last ones was a guy calls me at midnight having a
> traffic issue.  He has two upstream pipes he wants to try and utilize and
> needs some BGP help.  It’s an emergency situation because he is maxing out
> one pipe and the other is barely being used. So, I talk with him for 45
> minutes on his drive home before he can give me remote access.  I then
> spend the next hour or so writing out diagrams on paper trying to learn his
> network as quickly as I can.
>
> I then make some BGP changes and see traffic change and watch it for
> another 15 minutes or so. By this time his prime time is starting to wind
> down a little so I can’t tell if it’s normal traffic utilization or I
> actually fixed it. I tell client I made changes, spent 15 minutes typing up
> said changes, and say I *think* I fixed it but don’t really know enough
> about the network to say I did.  Send client invoice and say let me know
> and we can look again at no charge.
>
> Three days later I get a nasty e-mail saying I didn’t fix it, goes on and
> on how he can prove I didn’t fix it blah blah.  Oh, and by the way his
> normal consultant logged in and fixed it. Well yeah because the normal guy
> knows a whole lot more about the network than I did.
>
> Another off the street client had me look at some drop out issues.  Again,
> same story.  I have never touched the network and he calls me saying
> traffic just randomly stops for a second or two at a time.  Start looking
> at things, start from the easiest things to look at.  Spend 3 hours or so
> making sure configs are correct, etc.  Bill client and say get back to me.
> Sends me a nasty gram 3 months later saying it was the switch the routers
> were hooked into and they had buffer issues.  Why did I not tell him to
> replace the switch within the first hour?!?!?!
>
> These are just a few examples.  Us WISP consultants are a small bunch and
> we all know each other.  My advice is you need to find a consultant you can
> build a relationship with that works for BOTH of you.  My regular clients
> know I pick up the phone in a pinch and am fair with them.  However, they
> have taken the time and effort to build the relationship on their side
> too.  Anyone new who calls me that is looking for someone to answer the
> phone in that pinch automatically starts out with a 3-5 network evaluation.
> I don’t go as far as labbing everything up, but I make sure the
> documentation is spot on.  I still do the small break fixes, etc. but I am
> much more cautious about things.  We all have our own way of doing stuff.
> Some people and I don’t click.  Some do.  I am sure that is the same with
> any other consultant.
>
>
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> j2sw.com
> www.mtin.net
> www.midwest-ix.com
>
> On Nov 9, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
> Similar case with me which I kind of already pointed out.
>
> They couldn’t figure out a BGP issue and wanted to virtualize and put in a
> lab and spend hours on top of hours analyzing.
>
> I stopped them right there and said no thanks to that.
>
> Then I called Dennis and he took a few minutes, found out it likely wasn’t
> my problem, and worked with my upstream provider to fix it.
>
> And it was fixed after some emails back 

Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

[Josh Reynolds]

Agree with this method 100%.

Rarely can you hop in a fix something with little info. Spending time to
learn about the customer and not just their current needs goes a long way
toward creating a good business relationship. Both parties end up happier.

On Nov 12, 2017 10:53 PM, "Justin Wilson"  wrote:

Speaking from a consultant side it can be a little tricky with a new
client.  I have been burned more than once thinking I was going to “hop in
and fix it real quick”. Anymore, I want to build relationships with my
clients.  One of the last ones was a guy calls me at midnight having a
traffic issue.  He has two upstream pipes he wants to try and utilize and
needs some BGP help.  It’s an emergency situation because he is maxing out
one pipe and the other is barely being used. So, I talk with him for 45
minutes on his drive home before he can give me remote access.  I then
spend the next hour or so writing out diagrams on paper trying to learn his
network as quickly as I can.

I then make some BGP changes and see traffic change and watch it for
another 15 minutes or so. By this time his prime time is starting to wind
down a little so I can’t tell if it’s normal traffic utilization or I
actually fixed it. I tell client I made changes, spent 15 minutes typing up
said changes, and say I *think* I fixed it but don’t really know enough
about the network to say I did.  Send client invoice and say let me know
and we can look again at no charge.

Three days later I get a nasty e-mail saying I didn’t fix it, goes on and
on how he can prove I didn’t fix it blah blah.  Oh, and by the way his
normal consultant logged in and fixed it. Well yeah because the normal guy
knows a whole lot more about the network than I did.

Another off the street client had me look at some drop out issues.  Again,
same story.  I have never touched the network and he calls me saying
traffic just randomly stops for a second or two at a time.  Start looking
at things, start from the easiest things to look at.  Spend 3 hours or so
making sure configs are correct, etc.  Bill client and say get back to me.
Sends me a nasty gram 3 months later saying it was the switch the routers
were hooked into and they had buffer issues.  Why did I not tell him to
replace the switch within the first hour?!?!?!

These are just a few examples.  Us WISP consultants are a small bunch and
we all know each other.  My advice is you need to find a consultant you can
build a relationship with that works for BOTH of you.  My regular clients
know I pick up the phone in a pinch and am fair with them.  However, they
have taken the time and effort to build the relationship on their side
too.  Anyone new who calls me that is looking for someone to answer the
phone in that pinch automatically starts out with a 3-5 network evaluation.
I don’t go as far as labbing everything up, but I make sure the
documentation is spot on.  I still do the small break fixes, etc. but I am
much more cautious about things.  We all have our own way of doing stuff.
Some people and I don’t click.  Some do.  I am sure that is the same with
any other consultant.



Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

j2sw.com
www.mtin.net
www.midwest-ix.com

On Nov 9, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Sterling Jacobson  wrote:

Similar case with me which I kind of already pointed out.

They couldn’t figure out a BGP issue and wanted to virtualize and put in a
lab and spend hours on top of hours analyzing.

I stopped them right there and said no thanks to that.

Then I called Dennis and he took a few minutes, found out it likely wasn’t
my problem, and worked with my upstream provider to fix it.

And it was fixed after some emails back and forth between all of us.

I asked IPArchitechs to refund me since they had charged me hundreds of
dollars to get nowhere.
One of their sales guys made out a personal check to me for some reason,
claiming his reputation was on the line or something like that.
I think it was a shady play at emotions, but I don’t have many emotions, so
it didn’t work with me, lol!

I took whatever little money they could refund me, however they wanted to
refund and ‘play’ that.
Then they gave me credit which I still have, to use.

Likely I’ll not be doing BGP stuff with them, but maybe they will do
something more benign, like standard server work.

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On Behalf
Of *can...@believewireless.net
*Sent:* Thursday, November 9, 2017 10:01 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IPArchitechs

We used them once and we weren't happy. I wanted to give them a try to see
how they compared to others.
What I thought was a simple BGP issue that could have been handled with a
15-30 minute phone call ended
up taking over two weeks. They "needed" to get our router configs and
virtualize them in their network. Then
figure out which interfaces were backhaul links, etc.

They then came up with a crazy network design that, to me, made no sense.