Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Forrest, 

That’s exactly what we are looking for. No sun all week and batteries are 
getting low we can give them a boost. Your also right with the 1k cost target. 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 10:33 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

 

The target is the very small sites.   The ones where you're really only needing 
the $500 generator, if it would only start itself, and you're lucky to pull 20A.

 

The other target are off-grid sites where you need to start a generator based 
not on grid loss but on things like battery getting low.

 

With the generator controller, you could effectively hit the sub-$1k price.  
But you're right, part of the issue is that the guardian is getting cheaper and 
cheaper, and this I'm sure affects people.

 

 

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

I might be thinking of this wrongly, so I welcome input.

 

We got a 16kw Generac Guardian for under $5k.  That included a transfer switch, 
"cold weather kit" (which is basically a block heater and battery heater), and 
a precast base to put it on.  I think there are models as small as 8kw, but I 
don't have a price for that.  I'm sure it's less than $5k.  When we set up 
propane service the fuel company provided the tank and we only pay for the fuel.

 

This starts automatically when the power is off, and turns off when power comes 
back on.  This is what we want, right? A truck crashed into a pole one morning, 
and we lost power for more than 8 hours. That one incident paid for the 
Generac.  We certainly would have lost $5k worth of labor and service credits 
if we were down for that whole time so this system is worth every penny.

 

So what is it we're trying to achieve that the above product doesn't do?  I'm 
happy with my packetflux stuff, but if the generator board didn't sell, there's 
probably a reason.  If we're just trying to make it cheaper, isn't that the 
so-called "race to the bottom"?

 

Maybe there are points I'm overlooking, so again, I do welcome input.

 

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com>

To: af@afmug.com

Sent: 12/21/2017 9:40:02 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

 

Forrest,
 We had a discussion about this as we now have 4 generators and I have 3 of 
your standby controllers taking care of 
these sites without issue since we installed them. 
 Would it be feasible to just remove the Transformers and just give a link for 
separate purchase ?
My issue as with many would like to see a box with many inputs to monitor 
different things like AC,DC voltages, tempatures 
make and brake contacts. Also, the need for active outputs to turn on off 
things or just for a cycle with timer.
A nice gui would be ok to be able to log in for manual control or configuration.

There are some very expensive things out there to do all of this but I know 
with a little work it can be done with out much money involved.

I have a very specific need to integrate a 26vDC generator with a site that is 
a 48v plant. I have everything installed and connected but I need some
automation to start and stop when needed. 
The generator has a voltage sense on its output to detect if the battery bank 
is below 22vdc and if so it will kick on for an amount of time to restore 
charge. The problem with this is there is a 1000W converter between it and the 
48v battery bank.

Anyone with suggestions is welcome
Dave



On 12/21/2017 03:18 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

The short version:  I never sold that many, and this particular product came up 
in discussions about product liablity insurance.  Not that it was unsafe, just 
that there was some discomfort with the fact that I was monitoring the AC power 
line.To remedy this I would have either had to redesign to remove the AC 
monitoring hardware, or send the whole thing through UL listing.   Based on the 
volume, I didn't really see any reason to spend a lot of R time or money 
doing either.

 

I do expect the functionality in the generator controller will be able to be 
replicated as a side effect of planned technology to be incorporated in an 
upcoming product.  

 

 

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Bummer. Guess there was not enough demand or to make variants? 

 

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:18 PM George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:

Yeahbut Forrest doesn't make the generator control board anymore.

 

On 12/20/2017 5:01 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

I think packetflux is likely the easiest with the most to offer our of the box. 
I know if one other out of the box solution that cost about 3 times as much. 
First can not only start it but he can use his shunt to make sure it is 
actually started and producing curre

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Robert Andrews]

Makes me think of a caption for under his year book photo...

On 12/22/2017 12:24 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

You should know better than to lick chinese components by now...

On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 12:44 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com 
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:


Sometimes if I lick the chinese components my tummy gets upset...

-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 11:41 AM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

Not a lot of pure hardware products that have virus problems...

On 12/21/2017 03:22 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

That is always a problem.  And much more so if your product has
software inside.  My products I can put them into production,
take them out, advertise, not advertise pretty much on a whim.
When  you have software you always have features, oddities,
perhaps bugs, anomalies that need to be hunted down and killed.
Software is born, lives and dies but is never done.
When I was doing software dependent products I spent all my
spare time adding features and killing bugs.  I like this much
better the way I do them now...
*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 4:03 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?
Of course, that might lead Forrest back to the initial place in
this thread which was "I didn't sell that many of them". Not
saying he wouldn't, but he has mouths to feed and only one of
him. As a result he tries to gauge interest before taking on
projects. I'll bet he could tell you pretty quick if it seems
like something he would be interested in.
On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 4:06 PM Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com
<mailto:darr...@ecpi.com>> wrote:

 Well, I certainly understand that cheap and flexible tend to be
 opposites, which is why I would think the best way to do what I
 suggested would be to make the module a pricier option, not a
 default. A multi-purpose tool has the potential to be more
useful to
 a wider range of people than something which is practically a
 uni-tasker. Having to shut off all the APs on a RackInjector to
 replace one is not fun – having to perform surgery on a
deployed
 RackInjector while 7 fully-functional APs have to be shut
off during
 the process is even less so.

 

 Even as an internal add-on card with a bunch of cables to
each of
 the jumper blocks could be a major factor in deciding how to
 build-out a new site. Front-swappable might also work
(maybe each
 card could be in a drawer-like setting with a
front-accessible screw
 or two to lock it down most of the time) if we’re keeping the
 jumpers for cost. Just brainstorming…

 

 

 *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
 *Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 3:32 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>


     *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options
packetflux?

 

 Do you want PacketFlux injectors to cost what CMMs and CTMs
do? No.
 And neither does Forrest.

 We've done several radio swaps year after year. I take a spare
 SyncInjector/PowerInjector/RackInjector/whatever and swap it.

 Yes, it would have been cool to see the cards for the
RackInjector
 be easily front swappable like storage on a server. Again,
 complexity and cost.

 On 12/21/2017 2:40 PM, Darren Shea wrote:

 Forrest,

 That’s really interesting – am I jumping to
conclusions, or does
 that modular design of the underlying architecture mean
it would
 be possible to design a module which would replace the
jumper
 options on the current RackInjector with a fully
controllable,
 web-accessible, interface? Honestly, that’s the only
reason we
 haven’t deployed ours – the fact we are mixing PMP450 and
 450i/450m APs and ePMP 1000 and 2000 APs means that
having to
 partially disassemble the RackInjector to change an AP is a
 statistically likely and pretty daunting task. Having a
module
 to give the programmable flexibility of a

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Mathew Howard]

You should know better than to lick chinese components by now...

On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 12:44 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Sometimes if I lick the chinese components my tummy gets upset...
>
> -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 11:41 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?
>
> Not a lot of pure hardware products that have virus problems...
>
> On 12/21/2017 03:22 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
>> That is always a problem.  And much more so if your product has software
>> inside.  My products I can put them into production, take them out,
>> advertise, not advertise pretty much on a whim.
>> When  you have software you always have features, oddities, perhaps bugs,
>> anomalies that need to be hunted down and killed.
>> Software is born, lives and dies but is never done.
>> When I was doing software dependent products I spent all my spare time
>> adding features and killing bugs.  I like this much better the way I do
>> them now...
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 4:03 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?
>> Of course, that might lead Forrest back to the initial place in this
>> thread which was "I didn't sell that many of them". Not saying he wouldn't,
>> but he has mouths to feed and only one of him. As a result he tries to
>> gauge interest before taking on projects. I'll bet he could tell you pretty
>> quick if it seems like something he would be interested in.
>> On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 4:06 PM Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well, I certainly understand that cheap and flexible tend to be
>> opposites, which is why I would think the best way to do what I
>> suggested would be to make the module a pricier option, not a
>> default. A multi-purpose tool has the potential to be more useful to
>> a wider range of people than something which is practically a
>> uni-tasker. Having to shut off all the APs on a RackInjector to
>> replace one is not fun – having to perform surgery on a deployed
>> RackInjector while 7 fully-functional APs have to be shut off during
>> the process is even less so.
>>
>> 
>>
>> Even as an internal add-on card with a bunch of cables to each of
>> the jumper blocks could be a major factor in deciding how to
>> build-out a new site. Front-swappable might also work (maybe each
>> card could be in a drawer-like setting with a front-accessible screw
>> or two to lock it down most of the time) if we’re keeping the
>>     jumpers for cost. Just brainstorming…
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 3:32 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?
>>
>> 
>>
>> Do you want PacketFlux injectors to cost what CMMs and CTMs do? No.
>> And neither does Forrest.
>>
>> We've done several radio swaps year after year. I take a spare
>> SyncInjector/PowerInjector/RackInjector/whatever and swap it.
>>
>> Yes, it would have been cool to see the cards for the RackInjector
>> be easily front swappable like storage on a server. Again,
>> complexity and cost.
>>
>> On 12/21/2017 2:40 PM, Darren Shea wrote:
>>
>> Forrest,
>>
>> That’s really interesting – am I jumping to conclusions, or does
>> that modular design of the underlying architecture mean it would
>> be possible to design a module which would replace the jumper
>> options on the current RackInjector with a fully controllable,
>> web-accessible, interface? Honestly, that’s the only reason we
>> haven’t deployed ours – the fact we are mixing PMP450 and
>> 450i/450m APs and ePMP 1000 and 2000 APs means that having to
>> partially disassemble the RackInjector to change an AP is a
>> statistically likely and pretty daunting task. Having a module
>> to give the programmable flexibility of a LMG CTM-2M, for
>>     instance, without having to remove the unit from the rack, open
>> up the case, and move around jumpers when switching AP types
>> would be a big thing…
>>
>> 
>>
>> Thanks,
&

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[chuck]

Sometimes if I lick the chinese components my tummy gets upset...

-Original Message- 
From: Robert Andrews

Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 11:41 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

Not a lot of pure hardware products that have virus problems...

On 12/21/2017 03:22 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
That is always a problem.  And much more so if your product has software 
inside.  My products I can put them into production, take them out, 
advertise, not advertise pretty much on a whim.
When  you have software you always have features, oddities, perhaps bugs, 
anomalies that need to be hunted down and killed.

Software is born, lives and dies but is never done.
When I was doing software dependent products I spent all my spare time 
adding features and killing bugs.  I like this much better the way I do 
them now...

*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 4:03 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?
Of course, that might lead Forrest back to the initial place in this 
thread which was "I didn't sell that many of them". Not saying he 
wouldn't, but he has mouths to feed and only one of him. As a result he 
tries to gauge interest before taking on projects. I'll bet he could tell 
you pretty quick if it seems like something he would be interested in.

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 4:06 PM Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com> wrote:

Well, I certainly understand that cheap and flexible tend to be
opposites, which is why I would think the best way to do what I
suggested would be to make the module a pricier option, not a
default. A multi-purpose tool has the potential to be more useful to
a wider range of people than something which is practically a
uni-tasker. Having to shut off all the APs on a RackInjector to
replace one is not fun – having to perform surgery on a deployed
RackInjector while 7 fully-functional APs have to be shut off during
the process is even less so.



Even as an internal add-on card with a bunch of cables to each of
the jumper blocks could be a major factor in deciding how to
build-out a new site. Front-swappable might also work (maybe each
card could be in a drawer-like setting with a front-accessible screw
or two to lock it down most of the time) if we’re keeping the
jumpers for cost. Just brainstorming…





*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
*Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 3:32 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com


*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?



Do you want PacketFlux injectors to cost what CMMs and CTMs do? No.
And neither does Forrest.

We've done several radio swaps year after year. I take a spare
SyncInjector/PowerInjector/RackInjector/whatever and swap it.

Yes, it would have been cool to see the cards for the RackInjector
be easily front swappable like storage on a server. Again,
complexity and cost.

On 12/21/2017 2:40 PM, Darren Shea wrote:

Forrest,

That’s really interesting – am I jumping to conclusions, or does
that modular design of the underlying architecture mean it would
be possible to design a module which would replace the jumper
options on the current RackInjector with a fully controllable,
web-accessible, interface? Honestly, that’s the only reason we
haven’t deployed ours – the fact we are mixing PMP450 and
450i/450m APs and ePMP 1000 and 2000 APs means that having to
partially disassemble the RackInjector to change an AP is a
statistically likely and pretty daunting task. Having a module
to give the programmable flexibility of a LMG CTM-2M, for
instance, without having to remove the unit from the rack, open
up the case, and move around jumpers when switching AP types
would be a big thing…



Thanks,

__n__Darren



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Forrest
Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 9:57 AM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options
    packetflux?



I'd like to explain where we are in the grand scheme of
things.Getting the rackinjector out the door took pretty
much all of our R engineering for the last year or so. BUT...
there's a reason for this, and it is related to the technology
which is underpinning the web interface on that device.   And
which is related to our fairly near-term future as far as
packetflux goes...



The architecture underneath the rackinjector control system is
far more layered and abstracted th

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Robert Andrews]

Not a lot of pure hardware products that have virus problems...

On 12/21/2017 03:22 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
That is always a problem.  And much more so if your product has software 
inside.  My products I can put them into production, take them out, 
advertise, not advertise pretty much on a whim.
When  you have software you always have features, oddities, perhaps 
bugs, anomalies that need to be hunted down and killed.

Software is born, lives and dies but is never done.
When I was doing software dependent products I spent all my spare time 
adding features and killing bugs.  I like this much better the way I do 
them now...

*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 4:03 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?
Of course, that might lead Forrest back to the initial place in this 
thread which was "I didn't sell that many of them". Not saying he 
wouldn't, but he has mouths to feed and only one of him. As a result he 
tries to gauge interest before taking on projects. I'll bet he could 
tell you pretty quick if it seems like something he would be interested in.

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 4:06 PM Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com> wrote:

Well, I certainly understand that cheap and flexible tend to be
opposites, which is why I would think the best way to do what I
suggested would be to make the module a pricier option, not a
default. A multi-purpose tool has the potential to be more useful to
a wider range of people than something which is practically a
uni-tasker. Having to shut off all the APs on a RackInjector to
replace one is not fun – having to perform surgery on a deployed
RackInjector while 7 fully-functional APs have to be shut off during
the process is even less so.



Even as an internal add-on card with a bunch of cables to each of
the jumper blocks could be a major factor in deciding how to
build-out a new site. Front-swappable might also work (maybe each
card could be in a drawer-like setting with a front-accessible screw
or two to lock it down most of the time) if we’re keeping the
jumpers for cost. Just brainstorming…





*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
*Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 3:32 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com


*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?



Do you want PacketFlux injectors to cost what CMMs and CTMs do? No.
And neither does Forrest.

We've done several radio swaps year after year. I take a spare
SyncInjector/PowerInjector/RackInjector/whatever and swap it.

Yes, it would have been cool to see the cards for the RackInjector
be easily front swappable like storage on a server. Again,
complexity and cost.

On 12/21/2017 2:40 PM, Darren Shea wrote:

Forrest,

That’s really interesting – am I jumping to conclusions, or does
that modular design of the underlying architecture mean it would
be possible to design a module which would replace the jumper
options on the current RackInjector with a fully controllable,
web-accessible, interface? Honestly, that’s the only reason we
haven’t deployed ours – the fact we are mixing PMP450 and
450i/450m APs and ePMP 1000 and 2000 APs means that having to
partially disassemble the RackInjector to change an AP is a
statistically likely and pretty daunting task. Having a module
to give the programmable flexibility of a LMG CTM-2M, for
instance, without having to remove the unit from the rack, open
up the case, and move around jumpers when switching AP types
would be a big thing…



Thanks,

__n__Darren



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Forrest
Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 9:57 AM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options
    packetflux?



I'd like to explain where we are in the grand scheme of
things.Getting the rackinjector out the door took pretty
much all of our R engineering for the last year or so. BUT...
there's a reason for this, and it is related to the technology
which is underpinning the web interface on that device.   And
which is related to our fairly near-term future as far as
packetflux goes...



The architecture underneath the rackinjector control system is
far more layered and abstracted than it would need to be to
provide just the web interface.   Every piece of data is
abstracted into a generic data format inside the unit, and the
system is designed in a way to greatly simplify the addition of
add

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Brian Webster]

Nice! Put a propane conversion kit on it and you are in business!

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:15 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

 

Just slap one of these on your DC sites:

http://www.wholesale-smallengineparts.com/3kw-dc-battery-charging-generator
-48v60v72v-for-evehicles-p-3372.html


Its auto starts and stops depending on your batt voltageŠ also, it doesn¹t
need a external battery for auto start, it uses your battery for thatŠ.




On 12/22/17, 1:42 AM, "Af on behalf of Robert" <af-boun...@afmug.com on


 

Gino A. Villarini


President


Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968



behalf of i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:

>Not from the manufacturer and _NOT_ cheap, but...
>
>
>http://www.genconnexdirect.net/honda_propane_modified_generators.htm
>
>
>
>On 12/21/17 9:31 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
>> On 12/21/17 8:33 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>> The target is the very small sites.   The ones where you're really
>>> only needing the $500 generator, if it would only start itself, and
>>> you're lucky to pull 20A.
>>>
>>
>>
>> The other problem is that there really doesn't seem to be many small
>> propane generators with electric start.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Gino A. Villarini]

Just slap one of these on your DC sites:

http://www.wholesale-smallengineparts.com/3kw-dc-battery-charging-generator
-48v60v72v-for-evehicles-p-3372.html


Its auto starts and stops depending on your batt voltageŠ also, it doesn¹t
need a external battery for auto start, it uses your battery for thatŠ.




On 12/22/17, 1:42 AM, "Af on behalf of Robert"  wrote:

>Not from the manufacturer and _NOT_ cheap, but...
>
>
>http://www.genconnexdirect.net/honda_propane_modified_generators.htm
>
>
>
>On 12/21/17 9:31 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
>> On 12/21/17 8:33 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>> The target is the very small sites.   The ones where you're really
>>> only needing the $500 generator, if it would only start itself, and
>>> you're lucky to pull 20A.
>>>
>>
>>
>> The other problem is that there really doesn't seem to be many small
>> propane generators with electric start.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Robert]

Not from the manufacturer and _NOT_ cheap, but...


http://www.genconnexdirect.net/honda_propane_modified_generators.htm



On 12/21/17 9:31 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 12/21/17 8:33 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
The target is the very small sites.   The ones where you're really 
only needing the $500 generator, if it would only start itself, and 
you're lucky to pull 20A.





The other problem is that there really doesn't seem to be many small 
propane generators with electric start.

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Seth Mattinen]

On 12/21/17 8:33 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
The target is the very small sites.   The ones where you're really only 
needing the $500 generator, if it would only start itself, and you're 
lucky to pull 20A.





The other problem is that there really doesn't seem to be many small 
propane generators with electric start.

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[George Skorup]

I think the generator control board was intended for those cheap 
electric start get sets (gas, propane/convertible to popane, tri-fuel, 
etc) you can get on ebay and other places. Not something like a 
commercial Generac, Onan, etc. that have controllers built in.


OTOH, sometimes the included controllers and transfer switches can be 
pretty stupid. Like not starting and transferring when utility voltage 
sags below 90VAC per leg, and some power supplies wanting 96-100VAC 
minimum. Hmm, reminds me of some UPSes.


I had this crazy complicated idea when we were putting in the Generac at 
the office. I put in a second transfer switch fed from the first (as a 
sub-panel) for critical loads so that we can roll out a backup 7kw 
portable if the Generac is/needs to be taken down. I was going to use 
the PacketFlux controller for the second switch. And then thinking about 
it, I was way, way overthinking it. Instead I simply used a relay with a 
240VAC coil fed by the portable gen to make the switch transfer. Yes, 
the coil is always energized while the portable is making voltage. But I 
have yet to use it. And I have spare relays. I did this because if I 
have to roll into the NOC at 2am to bring up the portable because the 
Generac didn't start, at least when the portable runs out of gas, the 
switch will go back to normal position when the utility is restored. 
Good enough. With the PacketFlux controller, I would've had to build a 
DC UPS and all kinds of wiring and stuff. And it would probably never be 
used. But I bought one anyway while going through my overthinking stage, 
and then ended up giving it to Gino.


Chuck brought up another good point for DC applications. A simple 
voltage controlled relay and 2-wire start. Which of course assumes a 
genset with auto choke and all that. Forrest's controller was designed 
to do more complex sequencing. Turn on fuel, choke, crank. Monitor 
various conditions. Cool down, shutdown, turn off fuel.


On 12/21/2017 10:19 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

I might be thinking of this wrongly, so I welcome input.

We got a 16kw Generac Guardian for under $5k.  That included a 
transfer switch, "cold weather kit" (which is basically a block heater 
and battery heater), and a precast base to put it on.  I think there 
are models as small as 8kw, but I don't have a price for that.  I'm 
sure it's less than $5k.  When we set up propane service the fuel 
company provided the tank and we only pay for the fuel.


This starts automatically when the power is off, and turns off when 
power comes back on.  This is what we want, right? A truck crashed 
into a pole one morning, and we lost power for more than 8 hours. That 
one incident paid for the Generac.  We certainly would have lost $5k 
worth of labor and service credits if we were down for that whole 
time so this system is worth every penny.


So what is it we're trying to achieve that the above product doesn't 
do?  I'm happy with my packetflux stuff, but if the generator board 
didn't sell, there's probably a reason.  If we're just trying to make 
it cheaper, isn't that the so-called "race to the bottom"?


Maybe there are points I'm overlooking, so again, I do welcome input.



-- Original Message --
From: "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com <mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>>
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 12/21/2017 9:40:02 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?


Forrest,
 We had a discussion about this as we now have 4 generators and I 
have 3 of your standby controllers taking care of

these sites without issue since we installed them.
 Would it be feasible to just remove the Transformers and just give a 
link for separate purchase ?
My issue as with many would like to see a box with many inputs to 
monitor different things like AC,DC voltages, tempatures
make and brake contacts. Also, the need for active outputs to turn on 
off things or just for a cycle with timer.
A nice gui would be ok to be able to log in for manual control or 
configuration.


There are some very expensive things out there to do all of this but 
I know with a little work it can be done with out much money involved.


I have a very specific need to integrate a 26vDC generator with a 
site that is a 48v plant. I have everything installed and connected 
but I need some

automation to start and stop when needed.
The generator has a voltage sense on its output to detect if the 
battery bank is below 22vdc and if so it will kick on for an amount 
of time to restore
charge. The problem with this is there is a 1000W converter between 
it and the 48v battery bank.


Anyone with suggestions is welcome
Dave


On 12/21/2017 03:18 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
The short version:  I never sold that many, and this particular 
product came up in discussions about product liablity insurance.  
Not that it was unsafe, just that there was some discomfort with t

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The target is the very small sites.   The ones where you're really only
needing the $500 generator, if it would only start itself, and you're lucky
to pull 20A.

The other target are off-grid sites where you need to start a generator
based not on grid loss but on things like battery getting low.

With the generator controller, you could effectively hit the sub-$1k
price.  But you're right, part of the issue is that the guardian is getting
cheaper and cheaper, and this I'm sure affects people.


On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I might be thinking of this wrongly, so I welcome input.
>
> We got a 16kw Generac Guardian for under $5k.  That included a transfer
> switch, "cold weather kit" (which is basically a block heater and battery
> heater), and a precast base to put it on.  I think there are models as
> small as 8kw, but I don't have a price for that.  I'm sure it's less than
> $5k.  When we set up propane service the fuel company provided the tank and
> we only pay for the fuel.
>
> This starts automatically when the power is off, and turns off when power
> comes back on.  This is what we want, right? A truck crashed into a pole
> one morning, and we lost power for more than 8 hours. That one incident
> paid for the Generac.  We certainly would have lost $5k worth of labor and
> service credits if we were down for that whole time so this system is worth
> every penny.
>
> So what is it we're trying to achieve that the above product doesn't do?
> I'm happy with my packetflux stuff, but if the generator board didn't sell,
> there's probably a reason.  If we're just trying to make it cheaper, isn't
> that the so-called "race to the bottom"?
>
> Maybe there are points I'm overlooking, so again, I do welcome input.
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 12/21/2017 9:40:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?
>
> Forrest,
>  We had a discussion about this as we now have 4 generators and I have 3
> of your standby controllers taking care of
> these sites without issue since we installed them.
>  Would it be feasible to just remove the Transformers and just give a link
> for separate purchase ?
> My issue as with many would like to see a box with many inputs to monitor
> different things like AC,DC voltages, tempatures
> make and brake contacts. Also, the need for active outputs to turn on off
> things or just for a cycle with timer.
> A nice gui would be ok to be able to log in for manual control or
> configuration.
>
> There are some very expensive things out there to do all of this but I
> know with a little work it can be done with out much money involved.
>
> I have a very specific need to integrate a 26vDC generator with a site
> that is a 48v plant. I have everything installed and connected but I need
> some
> automation to start and stop when needed.
> The generator has a voltage sense on its output to detect if the battery
> bank is below 22vdc and if so it will kick on for an amount of time to
> restore
> charge. The problem with this is there is a 1000W converter between it and
> the 48v battery bank.
>
> Anyone with suggestions is welcome
> Dave
>
>
> On 12/21/2017 03:18 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> The short version:  I never sold that many, and this particular product
> came up in discussions about product liablity insurance.  Not that it was
> unsafe, just that there was some discomfort with the fact that I was
> monitoring the AC power line.To remedy this I would have either had to
> redesign to remove the AC monitoring hardware, or send the whole thing
> through UL listing.   Based on the volume, I didn't really see any reason
> to spend a lot of R time or money doing either.
>
> I do expect the functionality in the generator controller will be able to
> be replicated as a side effect of planned technology to be incorporated in
> an upcoming product.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Bummer. Guess there was not enough demand or to make variants?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:18 PM George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeahbut Forrest doesn't make the generator control board anymore.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/20/2017 5:01 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>>
>>> I think packetflux is likely the easiest with the most to offer our of
>>> the box. I know if one other out of the box solution that cost about 3
>>> times as much. First can not only start it but he can use his shun

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Adam Moffett]

I might be thinking of this wrongly, so I welcome input.

We got a 16kw Generac Guardian for under $5k.  That included a transfer 
switch, "cold weather kit" (which is basically a block heater and 
battery heater), and a precast base to put it on.  I think there are 
models as small as 8kw, but I don't have a price for that.  I'm sure 
it's less than $5k.  When we set up propane service the fuel company 
provided the tank and we only pay for the fuel.


This starts automatically when the power is off, and turns off when 
power comes back on.  This is what we want, right? A truck crashed into 
a pole one morning, and we lost power for more than 8 hours. That one 
incident paid for the Generac.  We certainly would have lost $5k worth 
of labor and service credits if we were down for that whole time so this 
system is worth every penny.


So what is it we're trying to achieve that the above product doesn't do? 
 I'm happy with my packetflux stuff, but if the generator board didn't 
sell, there's probably a reason.  If we're just trying to make it 
cheaper, isn't that the so-called "race to the bottom"?


Maybe there are points I'm overlooking, so again, I do welcome input.



-- Original Message --
From: "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/21/2017 9:40:02 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?


Forrest,
 We had a discussion about this as we now have 4 generators and I have 
3 of your standby controllers taking care of

these sites without issue since we installed them.
 Would it be feasible to just remove the Transformers and just give a 
link for separate purchase ?
My issue as with many would like to see a box with many inputs to 
monitor different things like AC,DC voltages, tempatures
make and brake contacts. Also, the need for active outputs to turn on 
off things or just for a cycle with timer.
A nice gui would be ok to be able to log in for manual control or 
configuration.


There are some very expensive things out there to do all of this but I 
know with a little work it can be done with out much money involved.


I have a very specific need to integrate a 26vDC generator with a site 
that is a 48v plant. I have everything installed and connected but I 
need some

automation to start and stop when needed.
The generator has a voltage sense on its output to detect if the 
battery bank is below 22vdc and if so it will kick on for an amount of 
time to restore
charge. The problem with this is there is a 1000W converter between it 
and the 48v battery bank.


Anyone with suggestions is welcome
Dave


On 12/21/2017 03:18 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
The short version:  I never sold that many, and this particular 
product came up in discussions about product liablity insurance.  Not 
that it was unsafe, just that there was some discomfort with the fact 
that I was monitoring the AC power line.To remedy this I would 
have either had to redesign to remove the AC monitoring hardware, or 
send the whole thing through UL listing.   Based on the volume, I 
didn't really see any reason to spend a lot of R time or money doing 
either.


I do expect the functionality in the generator controller will be able 
to be replicated as a side effect of planned technology to be 
incorporated in an upcoming product.



On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Lewis Bergman 
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Bummer. Guess there was not enough demand or to make variants?


On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:18 PM George Skorup 
<george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:

Yeahbut Forrest doesn't make the generator control board anymore.


On 12/20/2017 5:01 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
I think packetflux is likely the easiest with the most to offer our 
of the box. I know if one other out of the box solution that cost 
about 3 times as much. First can not only start it but he can use 
his shunt to make sure it is actually started and producing 
current.


If you want to do it yourself you could work some coding and such 
but it doesn't sound like that is what you want to do. Arduino, 
raspberry pi, etc. Could do this but you have to build it all 
yourself. Not really fast but fun if you like that kind of thing.


You would need some electronics knowledge if you don't want to 
spend a few days googling. I guess you still have to know enough to 
make Google work.


Again, see Forest for his genset setup. I know a lot of people in 
this list use it.



On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 4:39 PM Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> 
wrote:
assuming you have a generator that does auto-choke and is wired 
for electrical remote start, like the small generac units sold for 
RV use and similar... where all you need to do is turn on a relay 
for 4-5 seconds to crank a starter, then turn off the relay again.


one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/lan-controller/ 
<http://tinycontrol.pl/en/lan-controller/>


and one of these: http://tinycontrol.

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Seth Mattinen]

On 12/21/17 3:22 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
That is always a problem.  And much more so if your product has software 
inside.  My products I can put them into production, take them out, 
advertise, not advertise pretty much on a whim.
When  you have software you always have features, oddities, perhaps 
bugs, anomalies that need to be hunted down and killed.

Software is born, lives and dies but is never done.
When I was doing software dependent products I spent all my spare time 
adding features and killing bugs.  I like this much better the way I do 
them now...



For me, I don't need it to do everything and the kitchen sink. I can 
build logic based on conditions I poll from the sitemonitor and snmp set 
actions. For example, the generator controller can easily be duplicated 
with existing sitemonitor hardware. It's just a matter of reading inputs 
and setting outputs in the right order. I love the sitemonitor for its 
simplicity. It doesn't try to do all the things but I can make it be 
everything I need.


But I get that most people don't know how to or want to do that, so they 
need the product to do it for them with a pretty interface. Which makes 
the product more complicated, longer development cycle, more effort to 
support, etc.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Sort of replying backwards:

All of the radios you've mentioend are ok with the 450i pinout and 48V,
except the 450.

In addition, if you jumper all of the ports to that pinout, and then mix
the power source between the 3 sources (say the first 4 ports on the first
source, the next 4 on the second source, etc), then you can actually 'swap'
between the power needs just by changing the voltage input on the front of
the rackinjector with no need to open the enclosure.   Each chunk of ports
can be either voltage just by swapping the power supply for that chunk of
ports.



On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com> wrote:

> Forrest,
>
>  That’s really interesting – am I jumping to conclusions, or does that
> modular design of the underlying architecture mean it would be possible to
> design a module which would replace the jumper options on the current
> RackInjector with a fully controllable, web-accessible, interface?
> Honestly, that’s the only reason we haven’t deployed ours – the fact we are
> mixing PMP450 and 450i/450m APs and ePMP 1000 and 2000 APs means that
> having to partially disassemble the RackInjector to change an AP is a
> statistically likely and pretty daunting task. Having a module to give the
> programmable flexibility of a LMG CTM-2M, for instance, without having to
> remove the unit from the rack, open up the case, and move around jumpers
> when switching AP types would be a big thing…
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> n  Darren
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
> (List Account)
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 9:57 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?
>
>
>
> I'd like to explain where we are in the grand scheme of things.Getting
> the rackinjector out the door took pretty much all of our R engineering
> for the last year or so.   BUT... there's a reason for this, and it is
> related to the technology which is underpinning the web interface on that
> device.   And which is related to our fairly near-term future as far as
> packetflux goes...
>
>
>
> The architecture underneath the rackinjector control system is far more
> layered and abstracted than it would need to be to provide just the web
> interface.   Every piece of data is abstracted into a generic data format
> inside the unit, and the system is designed in a way to greatly simplify
> the addition of additional features.The overriding idea is an on-site
> system which is able to gather up status from the entire site and also be
> able to control an entire site.
>
>
>
> To sort of give you a glimpse, in the rackinjector, there is a module for
> gathering up data from a NMEA GPS stream (GPS lock status, etc), a separate
> module for measuring the timing of the PPS pulses, a separate module for
> the analog digital controllers, another module to pull data from
> sitemonitor expansions (the expansion cards in the rackinjector are running
> the same underlying protocol as the sitemonitor expansion cards are today),
> and so on.Each of these modules pull data from their information source
> and makes it available in a generic manner to the system.   For instance,
> the number of satellites in view is accessed in exactly the same way
> internally as a voltage reading.   This abstraction allows me to add
> additional modules to pull data quickly - all I have to do is to create a
> chunk of code to pull data from say a solar charge controller or pull
> values via SNMP from a radio.The difficulty varies of course based on
> how hard it is to access the data, but it's a lot easier than writing an
> entire stack for each device.
>
>
>
> Today the rackinjector is running what we call internally the
> "DeviceManager" code on top of this.  Generally what this is is a
> purpose-built web interface which is built on the underlying architecture.
>  The web-interface actually pulls the data it needs from the underlying
> system using another generic chunk of code so it is relatively easy for us
> to add additional fields and support for additional devices.  The
> "DeviceManager SNMP" module allows quick development of SNMP mibs again for
> specific purpose appliances.   There's a few other tricks coming as well.
> Our  intent with this code base is to build a set of specific-purpose
> appliances to pull data largely from one device or a couple of devices and
> provide it in a simplified manner to the user.   For instance a Solar
> Charge controller monitor.  Or a RackInjector controller.  The key point
> here is that the DeviceManager codebase is designed largely to hide all of
> this from the end-user, while making it easy for us to build these products

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

A lot of the reason why it took us so long to get even started on the
rackinjector was trying to find a way to do what everyone knows they want,
and what I'd like to sell.   Which is largely the items which keep coming
up, specifically the front side swappable cards and the software
configuration.

We looked at front side changeable.   In order to do that at the volumes we
were talking about, just the chassis would have been around $250 in
reasonable quantities.  No electronics other than the chassis, and a
passive backplane card.   And there was the whole mismatch between what we
thought a reasonable quantity was and what the enclosure manufacturer
thought was a reasonable quantity, so we would have been forced to buy
(based on current rackinjector shipping volumes) around 2-3 years worth
upfront of the chassis to make this work.

In relation to the software configurable issue, it's a lot of the same
thing:   If you take every single possible jumper position and add a
software switch,  you need to add somewhere between $1-2 per jumper of
electronics cost.   By the time you get it on the board you have to figure
about $2-4 per jumper.   A single port on a powerinjector has 11 jumper
positions, so $22-$44 added cost per port.Then there's the space, so
you'd probably need a bigger board and/or a double sided load or multiple
stacked boards to fit it all on.   Generally you're now looking at a 4 port
board which is easily $200 more expensive.   Would you pay $350 for a 4
port port injection card, and then still have to pay for a chassis and
control board?  Probably not.   And the level of engineering on this board
would require us to sell thousands before we got a return on investment,
which isn't likely based on the cost.   Not to factor in that the first
port-configuration software bug would likely cost us lots more in paying
for radios we cooked.

I am *absolutely* not saying that this isn't going to happen.  I continue
to spend a few hours every once in a while trying to crack this nut and get
the costs down.   There are ways to do it on the cheap but then you end up
with ports which fall over during the slightest provocation.   Although I
try very hard not to overengineer things, I also refuse to ship a product
which won't survive most common fault conditions.

We also looked at putting a DC-DC converter on each port to provide
individually settable power.   Back when radios were 7W/each that was
doable.  Now they're 50+ watts, not so much.

The whole need for different configurations for radios is going away
anyways.  Almost every modern shipping radio today needs 48V and is
polarity agnostic.   If you see 802.3af or 802.3at or similar, that means
you're pretty much guaranteed that it will handle 48V and the polarity
doesn't care.  The jumpers are there to support older radios which need
something other than 48V on some reasonably standard set of pins.   In the
cambium world, this pretty much is confined to the 450 and earlier radios,
and a few newer SM's.You could set all of the jumpers in the
rackinjector to power a 450i and pretty much any modern AP will receive
power just fine off of it.   The higher power radios (medusa, airfiber,
etc), would need all 4 pairs jumpered, but there again, all modern 4 pair
powered radios will work off of this.  In fact, most 2 pair powered radios
will work off of it as well.

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com> wrote:

> Well, I certainly understand that cheap and flexible tend to be opposites,
> which is why I would think the best way to do what I suggested would be to
> make the module a pricier option, not a default. A multi-purpose tool has
> the potential to be more useful to a wider range of people than something
> which is practically a uni-tasker. Having to shut off all the APs on a
> RackInjector to replace one is not fun – having to perform surgery on a
> deployed RackInjector while 7 fully-functional APs have to be shut off
> during the process is even less so.
>
>
>
> Even as an internal add-on card with a bunch of cables to each of the
> jumper blocks could be a major factor in deciding how to build-out a new
> site. Front-swappable might also work (maybe each card could be in a
> drawer-like setting with a front-accessible screw or two to lock it down
> most of the time) if we’re keeping the jumpers for cost. Just brainstorming…
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 3:32 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?
>
>
>
> Do you want PacketFlux injectors to cost what CMMs and CTMs do? No. And
> neither does Forrest.
>
> We've done several radio swaps year after year. I take a spare
> SyncInjector/PowerInjector/RackInjector/whatever and swap it.
>
> Yes, it would have been coo

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Chuck McCown]

That is always a problem.  And much more so if your product has software 
inside.  My products I can put them into production, take them out, advertise, 
not advertise pretty much on a whim.

When  you have software you always have features, oddities, perhaps bugs, 
anomalies that need to be hunted down and killed.
Software is born, lives and dies but is never done.  

When I was doing software dependent products I spent all my spare time adding 
features and killing bugs.  I like this much better the way I do them now...

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 4:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

Of course, that might lead Forrest back to the initial place in this thread 
which was "I didn't sell that many of them". Not saying he wouldn't, but he has 
mouths to feed and only one of him. As a result he tries to gauge interest 
before taking on projects. I'll bet he could tell you pretty quick if it seems 
like something he would be interested in.

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 4:06 PM Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com> wrote:

  Well, I certainly understand that cheap and flexible tend to be opposites, 
which is why I would think the best way to do what I suggested would be to make 
the module a pricier option, not a default. A multi-purpose tool has the 
potential to be more useful to a wider range of people than something which is 
practically a uni-tasker. Having to shut off all the APs on a RackInjector to 
replace one is not fun – having to perform surgery on a deployed RackInjector 
while 7 fully-functional APs have to be shut off during the process is even 
less so.



  Even as an internal add-on card with a bunch of cables to each of the jumper 
blocks could be a major factor in deciding how to build-out a new site. 
Front-swappable might also work (maybe each card could be in a drawer-like 
setting with a front-accessible screw or two to lock it down most of the time) 
if we’re keeping the jumpers for cost. Just brainstorming…





  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
  Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 3:32 PM
  To: af@afmug.com


  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?



  Do you want PacketFlux injectors to cost what CMMs and CTMs do? No. And 
neither does Forrest.

  We've done several radio swaps year after year. I take a spare 
SyncInjector/PowerInjector/RackInjector/whatever and swap it.

  Yes, it would have been cool to see the cards for the RackInjector be easily 
front swappable like storage on a server. Again, complexity and cost.

  On 12/21/2017 2:40 PM, Darren Shea wrote:

Forrest,

 That’s really interesting – am I jumping to conclusions, or does that 
modular design of the underlying architecture mean it would be possible to 
design a module which would replace the jumper options on the current 
RackInjector with a fully controllable, web-accessible, interface? Honestly, 
that’s the only reason we haven’t deployed ours – the fact we are mixing PMP450 
and 450i/450m APs and ePMP 1000 and 2000 APs means that having to partially 
disassemble the RackInjector to change an AP is a statistically likely and 
pretty daunting task. Having a module to give the programmable flexibility of a 
LMG CTM-2M, for instance, without having to remove the unit from the rack, open 
up the case, and move around jumpers when switching AP types would be a big 
thing…



Thanks,

n  Darren



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 9:57 AM
To: af
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?



I'd like to explain where we are in the grand scheme of things.Getting 
the rackinjector out the door took pretty much all of our R engineering for 
the last year or so.   BUT... there's a reason for this, and it is related to 
the technology which is underpinning the web interface on that device.   And 
which is related to our fairly near-term future as far as packetflux goes...



The architecture underneath the rackinjector control system is far more 
layered and abstracted than it would need to be to provide just the web 
interface.   Every piece of data is abstracted into a generic data format 
inside the unit, and the system is designed in a way to greatly simplify the 
addition of additional features.The overriding idea is an on-site system 
which is able to gather up status from the entire site and also be able to 
control an entire site.  



To sort of give you a glimpse, in the rackinjector, there is a module for 
gathering up data from a NMEA GPS stream (GPS lock status, etc), a separate 
module for measuring the timing of the PPS pulses, a separate module for the 
analog digital controllers, another module to pull data from sitemonitor 
expansions (the expansion cards in the rackinjector are running the same 
und

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Lewis Bergman]

Of course, that might lead Forrest back to the initial place in this thread
which was "I didn't sell that many of them". Not saying he wouldn't, but he
has mouths to feed and only one of him. As a result he tries to gauge
interest before taking on projects. I'll bet he could tell you pretty quick
if it seems like something he would be interested in.

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 4:06 PM Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com> wrote:

> Well, I certainly understand that cheap and flexible tend to be opposites,
> which is why I would think the best way to do what I suggested would be to
> make the module a pricier option, not a default. A multi-purpose tool has
> the potential to be more useful to a wider range of people than something
> which is practically a uni-tasker. Having to shut off all the APs on a
> RackInjector to replace one is not fun – having to perform surgery on a
> deployed RackInjector while 7 fully-functional APs have to be shut off
> during the process is even less so.
>
>
>
> Even as an internal add-on card with a bunch of cables to each of the
> jumper blocks could be a major factor in deciding how to build-out a new
> site. Front-swappable might also work (maybe each card could be in a
> drawer-like setting with a front-accessible screw or two to lock it down
> most of the time) if we’re keeping the jumpers for cost. Just brainstorming…
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 3:32 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?
>
>
>
> Do you want PacketFlux injectors to cost what CMMs and CTMs do? No. And
> neither does Forrest.
>
> We've done several radio swaps year after year. I take a spare
> SyncInjector/PowerInjector/RackInjector/whatever and swap it.
>
> Yes, it would have been cool to see the cards for the RackInjector be
> easily front swappable like storage on a server. Again, complexity and cost.
>
> On 12/21/2017 2:40 PM, Darren Shea wrote:
>
> Forrest,
>
>  That’s really interesting – am I jumping to conclusions, or does that
> modular design of the underlying architecture mean it would be possible to
> design a module which would replace the jumper options on the current
> RackInjector with a fully controllable, web-accessible, interface?
> Honestly, that’s the only reason we haven’t deployed ours – the fact we are
> mixing PMP450 and 450i/450m APs and ePMP 1000 and 2000 APs means that
> having to partially disassemble the RackInjector to change an AP is a
> statistically likely and pretty daunting task. Having a module to give the
> programmable flexibility of a LMG CTM-2M, for instance, without having to
> remove the unit from the rack, open up the case, and move around jumpers
> when switching AP types would be a big thing…
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> n  Darren
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 9:57 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?
>
>
>
> I'd like to explain where we are in the grand scheme of things.Getting
> the rackinjector out the door took pretty much all of our R engineering
> for the last year or so.   BUT... there's a reason for this, and it is
> related to the technology which is underpinning the web interface on that
> device.   And which is related to our fairly near-term future as far as
> packetflux goes...
>
>
>
> The architecture underneath the rackinjector control system is far more
> layered and abstracted than it would need to be to provide just the web
> interface.   Every piece of data is abstracted into a generic data format
> inside the unit, and the system is designed in a way to greatly simplify
> the addition of additional features.The overriding idea is an on-site
> system which is able to gather up status from the entire site and also be
> able to control an entire site.
>
>
>
> To sort of give you a glimpse, in the rackinjector, there is a module for
> gathering up data from a NMEA GPS stream (GPS lock status, etc), a separate
> module for measuring the timing of the PPS pulses, a separate module for
> the analog digital controllers, another module to pull data from
> sitemonitor expansions (the expansion cards in the rackinjector are running
> the same underlying protocol as the sitemonitor expansion cards are today),
> and so on.Each of these modules pull data from their information source
> and makes it available in a generic manner to the system.   For instance,
> the number of satellites in view is accessed in exactly

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Darren Shea]

Well, I certainly understand that cheap and flexible tend to be opposites, 
which is why I would think the best way to do what I suggested would be to make 
the module a pricier option, not a default. A multi-purpose tool has the 
potential to be more useful to a wider range of people than something which is 
practically a uni-tasker. Having to shut off all the APs on a RackInjector to 
replace one is not fun – having to perform surgery on a deployed RackInjector 
while 7 fully-functional APs have to be shut off during the process is even 
less so.

 

Even as an internal add-on card with a bunch of cables to each of the jumper 
blocks could be a major factor in deciding how to build-out a new site. 
Front-swappable might also work (maybe each card could be in a drawer-like 
setting with a front-accessible screw or two to lock it down most of the time) 
if we’re keeping the jumpers for cost. Just brainstorming…

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 3:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

 

Do you want PacketFlux injectors to cost what CMMs and CTMs do? No. And neither 
does Forrest.

We've done several radio swaps year after year. I take a spare 
SyncInjector/PowerInjector/RackInjector/whatever and swap it.

Yes, it would have been cool to see the cards for the RackInjector be easily 
front swappable like storage on a server. Again, complexity and cost.

On 12/21/2017 2:40 PM, Darren Shea wrote:

Forrest,

 That’s really interesting – am I jumping to conclusions, or does that 
modular design of the underlying architecture mean it would be possible to 
design a module which would replace the jumper options on the current 
RackInjector with a fully controllable, web-accessible, interface? Honestly, 
that’s the only reason we haven’t deployed ours – the fact we are mixing PMP450 
and 450i/450m APs and ePMP 1000 and 2000 APs means that having to partially 
disassemble the RackInjector to change an AP is a statistically likely and 
pretty daunting task. Having a module to give the programmable flexibility of a 
LMG CTM-2M, for instance, without having to remove the unit from the rack, open 
up the case, and move around jumpers when switching AP types would be a big 
thing…

 

Thanks,

n  Darren

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 9:57 AM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

 

I'd like to explain where we are in the grand scheme of things.Getting the 
rackinjector out the door took pretty much all of our R engineering for the 
last year or so.   BUT... there's a reason for this, and it is related to the 
technology which is underpinning the web interface on that device.   And which 
is related to our fairly near-term future as far as packetflux goes...

 

The architecture underneath the rackinjector control system is far more layered 
and abstracted than it would need to be to provide just the web interface.   
Every piece of data is abstracted into a generic data format inside the unit, 
and the system is designed in a way to greatly simplify the addition of 
additional features.The overriding idea is an on-site system which is able 
to gather up status from the entire site and also be able to control an entire 
site.  

 

To sort of give you a glimpse, in the rackinjector, there is a module for 
gathering up data from a NMEA GPS stream (GPS lock status, etc), a separate 
module for measuring the timing of the PPS pulses, a separate module for the 
analog digital controllers, another module to pull data from sitemonitor 
expansions (the expansion cards in the rackinjector are running the same 
underlying protocol as the sitemonitor expansion cards are today), and so on.   
 Each of these modules pull data from their information source and makes it 
available in a generic manner to the system.   For instance, the number of 
satellites in view is accessed in exactly the same way internally as a voltage 
reading.   This abstraction allows me to add additional modules to pull data 
quickly - all I have to do is to create a chunk of code to pull data from say a 
solar charge controller or pull values via SNMP from a radio.The difficulty 
varies of course based on how hard it is to access the data, but it's a lot 
easier than writing an entire stack for each device.

 

Today the rackinjector is running what we call internally the "DeviceManager" 
code on top of this.  Generally what this is is a purpose-built web interface 
which is built on the underlying architecture.   The web-interface actually 
pulls the data it needs from the underlying system using another generic chunk 
of code so it is relatively easy for us to add additional fields and support 
for additional devices.  The "DeviceManager SNMP" module allows quick 
developmen

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[George Skorup]

Do you want PacketFlux injectors to cost what CMMs and CTMs do? No. And 
neither does Forrest.


We've done several radio swaps year after year. I take a spare 
SyncInjector/PowerInjector/RackInjector/whatever and swap it.


Yes, it would have been cool to see the cards for the RackInjector be 
easily front swappable like storage on a server. Again, complexity and cost.


On 12/21/2017 2:40 PM, Darren Shea wrote:


Forrest,

That’s really interesting – am I jumping to conclusions, or does that 
modular design of the underlying architecture mean it would be 
possible to design a module which would replace the jumper options on 
the current RackInjector with a fully controllable, web-accessible, 
interface? Honestly, that’s the only reason we haven’t deployed ours – 
the fact we are mixing PMP450 and 450i/450m APs and ePMP 1000 and 2000 
APs means that having to partially disassemble the RackInjector to 
change an AP is a statistically likely and pretty daunting task. 
Having a module to give the programmable flexibility of a LMG CTM-2M, 
for instance, without having to remove the unit from the rack, open up 
the case, and move around jumpers when switching AP types would be a 
big thing…


Thanks,

nDarren

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Forrest 
Christian (List Account)

*Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 9:57 AM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

I'd like to explain where we are in the grand scheme of things.    
Getting the rackinjector out the door took pretty much all of our R 
engineering for the last year or so.   BUT... there's a reason for 
this, and it is related to the technology which is underpinning the 
web interface on that device.   And which is related to our fairly 
near-term future as far as packetflux goes...


The architecture underneath the rackinjector control system is far 
more layered and abstracted than it would need to be to provide just 
the web interface.   Every piece of data is abstracted into a generic 
data format inside the unit, and the system is designed in a way to 
greatly simplify the addition of additional features.    The 
overriding idea is an on-site system which is able to gather up status 
from the entire site and also be able to control an entire site.


To sort of give you a glimpse, in the rackinjector, there is a module 
for gathering up data from a NMEA GPS stream (GPS lock status, etc), a 
separate module for measuring the timing of the PPS pulses, a separate 
module for the analog digital controllers, another module to pull data 
from sitemonitor expansions (the expansion cards in the rackinjector 
are running the same underlying protocol as the sitemonitor expansion 
cards are today), and so on.    Each of these modules pull data from 
their information source and makes it available in a generic manner to 
the system.   For instance, the number of satellites in view is 
accessed in exactly the same way internally as a voltage reading.  
 This abstraction allows me to add additional modules to pull data 
quickly - all I have to do is to create a chunk of code to pull data 
from say a solar charge controller or pull values via SNMP from a 
radio.    The difficulty varies of course based on how hard it is to 
access the data, but it's a lot easier than writing an entire stack 
for each device.


Today the rackinjector is running what we call internally the 
"DeviceManager" code on top of this.  Generally what this is is a 
purpose-built web interface which is built on the underlying 
architecture.  The web-interface actually pulls the data it needs from 
the underlying system using another generic chunk of code so it is 
relatively easy for us to add additional fields and support for 
additional devices.  The "DeviceManager SNMP" module allows quick 
development of SNMP mibs again for specific purpose appliances.  
 There's a few other tricks coming as well.  Our  intent with this 
code base is to build a set of specific-purpose appliances to pull 
data largely from one device or a couple of devices and provide it in 
a simplified manner to the user.   For instance a Solar Charge 
controller monitor.  Or a RackInjector controller.  The key point here 
is that the DeviceManager codebase is designed largely to hide all of 
this from the end-user, while making it easy for us to build these 
products quickly.


Now, back to the main point:  This same flexible architecture permits 
us to also build various automated control systems on top of the same 
underlying architecture.  If you replace the fixed-function 
devicemanager interface with a programmable, scriptable, flexible 
interface, all sorts of things start to happen.  Including all of the 
items we're discussing in this thread.   We already sell all of the 
physical interfaces needed to get a generator controller running - you 
can plug a unregulated power supply into a voltage input to get a 
rough idea of the AC

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Darren Shea]

Forrest,

 That’s really interesting – am I jumping to conclusions, or does that 
modular design of the underlying architecture mean it would be possible to 
design a module which would replace the jumper options on the current 
RackInjector with a fully controllable, web-accessible, interface? Honestly, 
that’s the only reason we haven’t deployed ours – the fact we are mixing PMP450 
and 450i/450m APs and ePMP 1000 and 2000 APs means that having to partially 
disassemble the RackInjector to change an AP is a statistically likely and 
pretty daunting task. Having a module to give the programmable flexibility of a 
LMG CTM-2M, for instance, without having to remove the unit from the rack, open 
up the case, and move around jumpers when switching AP types would be a big 
thing…

 

Thanks,

n  Darren

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 9:57 AM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

 

I'd like to explain where we are in the grand scheme of things.Getting the 
rackinjector out the door took pretty much all of our R engineering for the 
last year or so.   BUT... there's a reason for this, and it is related to the 
technology which is underpinning the web interface on that device.   And which 
is related to our fairly near-term future as far as packetflux goes...

 

The architecture underneath the rackinjector control system is far more layered 
and abstracted than it would need to be to provide just the web interface.   
Every piece of data is abstracted into a generic data format inside the unit, 
and the system is designed in a way to greatly simplify the addition of 
additional features.The overriding idea is an on-site system which is able 
to gather up status from the entire site and also be able to control an entire 
site.  

 

To sort of give you a glimpse, in the rackinjector, there is a module for 
gathering up data from a NMEA GPS stream (GPS lock status, etc), a separate 
module for measuring the timing of the PPS pulses, a separate module for the 
analog digital controllers, another module to pull data from sitemonitor 
expansions (the expansion cards in the rackinjector are running the same 
underlying protocol as the sitemonitor expansion cards are today), and so on.   
 Each of these modules pull data from their information source and makes it 
available in a generic manner to the system.   For instance, the number of 
satellites in view is accessed in exactly the same way internally as a voltage 
reading.   This abstraction allows me to add additional modules to pull data 
quickly - all I have to do is to create a chunk of code to pull data from say a 
solar charge controller or pull values via SNMP from a radio.The difficulty 
varies of course based on how hard it is to access the data, but it's a lot 
easier than writing an entire stack for each device.

 

Today the rackinjector is running what we call internally the "DeviceManager" 
code on top of this.  Generally what this is is a purpose-built web interface 
which is built on the underlying architecture.   The web-interface actually 
pulls the data it needs from the underlying system using another generic chunk 
of code so it is relatively easy for us to add additional fields and support 
for additional devices.  The "DeviceManager SNMP" module allows quick 
development of SNMP mibs again for specific purpose appliances.   There's a few 
other tricks coming as well.  Our  intent with this code base is to build a set 
of specific-purpose appliances to pull data largely from one device or a couple 
of devices and provide it in a simplified manner to the user.   For instance a 
Solar Charge controller monitor.  Or a RackInjector controller.  The key point 
here is that the DeviceManager codebase is designed largely to hide all of this 
from the end-user, while making it easy for us to build these products quickly.

 

Now, back to the main point:  This same flexible architecture permits us to 
also build various automated control systems on top of the same underlying 
architecture.  If you replace the fixed-function devicemanager interface with a 
programmable, scriptable, flexible interface, all sorts of things start to 
happen.   Including all of the items we're discussing in this thread.   We 
already sell all of the physical interfaces needed to get a generator 
controller running - you can plug a unregulated power supply into a voltage 
input to get a rough idea of the AC voltage, or can get the DC voltage using 
another voltage input.   You have contact closures in the form of another 
sitemonitor expansion module.   And so on.   What is missing is some sort of 
on-site automation, and that's where we've been heading with this entire 
architecture for about 2 years now.

 

I don't know how quickly this is going to happen.   The next 30 days I'm 
focused on 'finishing' the ra

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I'd like to explain where we are in the grand scheme of things.Getting
the rackinjector out the door took pretty much all of our R engineering
for the last year or so.   BUT... there's a reason for this, and it is
related to the technology which is underpinning the web interface on that
device.   And which is related to our fairly near-term future as far as
packetflux goes...

The architecture underneath the rackinjector control system is far more
layered and abstracted than it would need to be to provide just the web
interface.   Every piece of data is abstracted into a generic data format
inside the unit, and the system is designed in a way to greatly simplify
the addition of additional features.The overriding idea is an on-site
system which is able to gather up status from the entire site and also be
able to control an entire site.

To sort of give you a glimpse, in the rackinjector, there is a module for
gathering up data from a NMEA GPS stream (GPS lock status, etc), a separate
module for measuring the timing of the PPS pulses, a separate module for
the analog digital controllers, another module to pull data from
sitemonitor expansions (the expansion cards in the rackinjector are running
the same underlying protocol as the sitemonitor expansion cards are today),
and so on.Each of these modules pull data from their information source
and makes it available in a generic manner to the system.   For instance,
the number of satellites in view is accessed in exactly the same way
internally as a voltage reading.   This abstraction allows me to add
additional modules to pull data quickly - all I have to do is to create a
chunk of code to pull data from say a solar charge controller or pull
values via SNMP from a radio.The difficulty varies of course based on
how hard it is to access the data, but it's a lot easier than writing an
entire stack for each device.

Today the rackinjector is running what we call internally the
"DeviceManager" code on top of this.  Generally what this is is a
purpose-built web interface which is built on the underlying architecture.
 The web-interface actually pulls the data it needs from the underlying
system using another generic chunk of code so it is relatively easy for us
to add additional fields and support for additional devices.  The
"DeviceManager SNMP" module allows quick development of SNMP mibs again for
specific purpose appliances.   There's a few other tricks coming as well.
Our  intent with this code base is to build a set of specific-purpose
appliances to pull data largely from one device or a couple of devices and
provide it in a simplified manner to the user.   For instance a Solar
Charge controller monitor.  Or a RackInjector controller.  The key point
here is that the DeviceManager codebase is designed largely to hide all of
this from the end-user, while making it easy for us to build these products
quickly.

Now, back to the main point:  This same flexible architecture permits us to
also build various automated control systems on top of the same underlying
architecture.  If you replace the fixed-function devicemanager interface
with a programmable, scriptable, flexible interface, all sorts of things
start to happen.   Including all of the items we're discussing in this
thread.   We already sell all of the physical interfaces needed to get a
generator controller running - you can plug a unregulated power supply into
a voltage input to get a rough idea of the AC voltage, or can get the DC
voltage using another voltage input.   You have contact closures in the
form of another sitemonitor expansion module.   And so on.   What is
missing is some sort of on-site automation, and that's where we've been
heading with this entire architecture for about 2 years now.

I don't know how quickly this is going to happen.   The next 30 days I'm
focused on 'finishing' the rackinjector - meaning shipping the cambium sync
cards and the new 'either polarity' cards, and getting a new firmware out
for it which has the "Devicemanager SNMP" code running in it.   Once that
is done we can re-focus on how to prioritize the future of this
architecture.



On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Dave  wrote:

> Forrest,
>  We had a discussion about this as we now have 4 generators and I have 3
> of your standby controllers taking care of
> these sites without issue since we installed them.
>  Would it be feasible to just remove the Transformers and just give a link
> for separate purchase ?
> My issue as with many would like to see a box with many inputs to monitor
> different things like AC,DC voltages, tempatures
> make and brake contacts. Also, the need for active outputs to turn on off
> things or just for a cycle with timer.
> A nice gui would be ok to be able to log in for manual control or
> configuration.
>
> There are some very expensive things out there to do all of this but I
> know with a little work it can be done with out much money involved.
>
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Lewis Bergman]

Yes. That is the one I have but they won't sell you the hall effect. They
make you but their whole deal. If you have notes I would appreciate it. I
think I found one but don't know much about them.
It looks like you kind of have to poor then into a mold for each
application.

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 9:05 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> The propane tank is actually easy google 'rochester remote ready'...
> http://www.rochestergauges.com/products/R3D.html
>
> You can plug this into an analog input on the sitemonitor system, or any
> remote system.  The sensors are actually rather inexpensive.  I'm sure
> specific support for this is somewhere on a list somewhere, but it's been a
> while since I even thought about this.
>
> On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 3:25 AM, Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes. I am not happy with the case solutions available but other than that
>> it is great. Forests liability thing has me thinking though. I was going to
>> try a hall effect sensor to monitor my propane tank level and call and
>> email my provider when it gets low.
>>
>> Ok for my use but I likely would have to have it UIL listed for hazardous
>> locations if I was to try to sell it. Probably why the available products
>> do so little and coat so much. A pi zero seems great for such a thing. I
>> might have to buy a 3d printer to make my own cases though. What is out
>> there doesn't seem great.
>>
>> Maybe Forest would make me one. I think he has a pretty high dollar one.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 3:20 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
> If you've got something which is remote startable with a switch contact,
>>> just use either a sitemonitor base unit (my product) , or some other
>>> product which provides a remote contactor.
>>>
>>> If this is mid-year or late-year, you may be able to get a more
>>> automated solution from packetflux.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Brandon Yuchasz >> > wrote:
>>>
 We are looking at adding a remote start to a generator at an off grid
 site we have and I am gathering information  on options at this point.



 Right now we are all Solar at the site.  It’s a new site and if / when
 we draw down batteries beyond where we are comfortable we turn go to the
 site turn off the PV and start a generator manually and run a 48v battery
 charger on the bank. It’s a fairly low tech solution right now. We log in
 turn off the PV array and a guy goes out and pulls the rope on the
 generator and batteries start to charge. He then leaves and in three hours
 generator runs out of fuel and charging stops. Log back in turn the PV back
 on and that’s the end of the process.



 We are considering a few different options at the site and I don’t want
 to complicate this to much by offering to much information to start. Ill go
 into more details later but for now I am looking for a way to start a
 (different) propane generator remotely during the dark months. Most likely
 once a week in December and January.



 So assuming electric start is an options on the generator. What options
 do I have for throwing that “switch” from the office. I am positive I am
 not the first one of us to want to do this.



 Thoughts everyone? I want to KISS so when I am not around others can do
 this with minimal training.



 Thanks,

 Brandon





>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>>> 
>>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>>> 
>>>   
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> 
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The propane tank is actually easy google 'rochester remote ready'...
http://www.rochestergauges.com/products/R3D.html

You can plug this into an analog input on the sitemonitor system, or any
remote system.  The sensors are actually rather inexpensive.  I'm sure
specific support for this is somewhere on a list somewhere, but it's been a
while since I even thought about this.

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 3:25 AM, Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> Yes. I am not happy with the case solutions available but other than that
> it is great. Forests liability thing has me thinking though. I was going to
> try a hall effect sensor to monitor my propane tank level and call and
> email my provider when it gets low.
>
> Ok for my use but I likely would have to have it UIL listed for hazardous
> locations if I was to try to sell it. Probably why the available products
> do so little and coat so much. A pi zero seems great for such a thing. I
> might have to buy a 3d printer to make my own cases though. What is out
> there doesn't seem great.
>
> Maybe Forest would make me one. I think he has a pretty high dollar one.
>
> On Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 3:20 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> If you've got something which is remote startable with a switch contact,
>> just use either a sitemonitor base unit (my product) , or some other
>> product which provides a remote contactor.
>>
>> If this is mid-year or late-year, you may be able to get a more automated
>> solution from packetflux.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Brandon Yuchasz 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We are looking at adding a remote start to a generator at an off grid
>>> site we have and I am gathering information  on options at this point.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Right now we are all Solar at the site.  It’s a new site and if / when
>>> we draw down batteries beyond where we are comfortable we turn go to the
>>> site turn off the PV and start a generator manually and run a 48v battery
>>> charger on the bank. It’s a fairly low tech solution right now. We log in
>>> turn off the PV array and a guy goes out and pulls the rope on the
>>> generator and batteries start to charge. He then leaves and in three hours
>>> generator runs out of fuel and charging stops. Log back in turn the PV back
>>> on and that’s the end of the process.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We are considering a few different options at the site and I don’t want
>>> to complicate this to much by offering to much information to start. Ill go
>>> into more details later but for now I am looking for a way to start a
>>> (different) propane generator remotely during the dark months. Most likely
>>> once a week in December and January.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So assuming electric start is an options on the generator. What options
>>> do I have for throwing that “switch” from the office. I am positive I am
>>> not the first one of us to want to do this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thoughts everyone? I want to KISS so when I am not around others can do
>>> this with minimal training.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>> 
>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>> 
>>   
>>
>>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Dave]

Forrest,
 We had a discussion about this as we now have 4 generators and I have 
3 of your standby controllers taking care of

these sites without issue since we installed them.
 Would it be feasible to just remove the Transformers and just give a 
link for separate purchase ?
My issue as with many would like to see a box with many inputs to 
monitor different things like AC,DC voltages, tempatures
make and brake contacts. Also, the need for active outputs to turn on 
off things or just for a cycle with timer.
A nice gui would be ok to be able to log in for manual control or 
configuration.


There are some very expensive things out there to do all of this but I 
know with a little work it can be done with out much money involved.


I have a very specific need to integrate a 26vDC generator with a site 
that is a 48v plant. I have everything installed and connected but I 
need some

automation to start and stop when needed.
The generator has a voltage sense on its output to detect if the battery 
bank is below 22vdc and if so it will kick on for an amount of time to 
restore
charge. The problem with this is there is a 1000W converter between it 
and the 48v battery bank.


Anyone with suggestions is welcome
Dave


On 12/21/2017 03:18 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
The short version:  I never sold that many, and this particular 
product came up in discussions about product liablity insurance.  Not 
that it was unsafe, just that there was some discomfort with the fact 
that I was monitoring the AC power line.    To remedy this I would 
have either had to redesign to remove the AC monitoring hardware, or 
send the whole thing through UL listing.   Based on the volume, I 
didn't really see any reason to spend a lot of R time or money doing 
either.


I do expect the functionality in the generator controller will be able 
to be replicated as a side effect of planned technology to be 
incorporated in an upcoming product.



On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:


Bummer. Guess there was not enough demand or to make variants?


On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:18 PM George Skorup
> wrote:

Yeahbut Forrest doesn't make the generator control board anymore.


On 12/20/2017 5:01 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:


I think packetflux is likely the easiest with the most to
offer our of the box. I know if one other out of the box
solution that cost about 3 times as much. First can not only
start it but he can use his shunt to make sure it is actually
started and producing current.

If you want to do it yourself you could work some coding and
such but it doesn't sound like that is what you want to do.
Arduino, raspberry pi, etc. Could do this but you have to
build it all yourself. Not really fast but fun if you like
that kind of thing.

You would need some electronics knowledge if you don't want
to spend a few days googling. I guess you still have to know
enough to make Google work.

Again, see Forest for his genset setup. I know a lot of
people in this list use it.


On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 4:39 PM Eric Kuhnke
> wrote:

assuming you have a generator that does auto-choke and is
wired for electrical remote start, like the small generac
units sold for RV use and similar... where all you need
to do is turn on a relay for 4-5 seconds to crank a
starter, then turn off the relay again.

one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/lan-controller/


and one of these:
http://tinycontrol.pl/en/relays-board-10a-v3/


or a thing like this:

http://denkovi.com/ethernet-relay-card-5-channels-snmp-http-xml-real-time-clock-din-box




there are quite a few different DIN mount
relay-controllers with basic http interfaces to turn on
and off things. Some support things like receiving an
snmp trap to trigger a relay for automated scripting.

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Brandon Yuchasz
>
wrote:

We are looking at adding a remote start to a
generator at an off grid site we have and I am
gathering information  on options at this point.

Right now we are all Solar at the site.  It’s a new
site and if / when we draw down batteries beyond
where we 

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Lewis Bergman]

Yes. I am not happy with the case solutions available but other than that
it is great. Forests liability thing has me thinking though. I was going to
try a hall effect sensor to monitor my propane tank level and call and
email my provider when it gets low.

Ok for my use but I likely would have to have it UIL listed for hazardous
locations if I was to try to sell it. Probably why the available products
do so little and coat so much. A pi zero seems great for such a thing. I
might have to buy a 3d printer to make my own cases though. What is out
there doesn't seem great.

Maybe Forest would make me one. I think he has a pretty high dollar one.

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 3:20 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> If you've got something which is remote startable with a switch contact,
> just use either a sitemonitor base unit (my product) , or some other
> product which provides a remote contactor.
>
> If this is mid-year or late-year, you may be able to get a more automated
> solution from packetflux.
>
> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Brandon Yuchasz 
> wrote:
>
>> We are looking at adding a remote start to a generator at an off grid
>> site we have and I am gathering information  on options at this point.
>>
>>
>>
>> Right now we are all Solar at the site.  It’s a new site and if / when we
>> draw down batteries beyond where we are comfortable we turn go to the site
>> turn off the PV and start a generator manually and run a 48v battery
>> charger on the bank. It’s a fairly low tech solution right now. We log in
>> turn off the PV array and a guy goes out and pulls the rope on the
>> generator and batteries start to charge. He then leaves and in three hours
>> generator runs out of fuel and charging stops. Log back in turn the PV back
>> on and that’s the end of the process.
>>
>>
>>
>> We are considering a few different options at the site and I don’t want
>> to complicate this to much by offering to much information to start. Ill go
>> into more details later but for now I am looking for a way to start a
>> (different) propane generator remotely during the dark months. Most likely
>> once a week in December and January.
>>
>>
>>
>> So assuming electric start is an options on the generator. What options
>> do I have for throwing that “switch” from the office. I am positive I am
>> not the first one of us to want to do this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thoughts everyone? I want to KISS so when I am not around others can do
>> this with minimal training.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> 
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

If you've got something which is remote startable with a switch contact,
just use either a sitemonitor base unit (my product) , or some other
product which provides a remote contactor.

If this is mid-year or late-year, you may be able to get a more automated
solution from packetflux.

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Brandon Yuchasz 
wrote:

> We are looking at adding a remote start to a generator at an off grid site
> we have and I am gathering information  on options at this point.
>
>
>
> Right now we are all Solar at the site.  It’s a new site and if / when we
> draw down batteries beyond where we are comfortable we turn go to the site
> turn off the PV and start a generator manually and run a 48v battery
> charger on the bank. It’s a fairly low tech solution right now. We log in
> turn off the PV array and a guy goes out and pulls the rope on the
> generator and batteries start to charge. He then leaves and in three hours
> generator runs out of fuel and charging stops. Log back in turn the PV back
> on and that’s the end of the process.
>
>
>
> We are considering a few different options at the site and I don’t want to
> complicate this to much by offering to much information to start. Ill go
> into more details later but for now I am looking for a way to start a
> (different) propane generator remotely during the dark months. Most likely
> once a week in December and January.
>
>
>
> So assuming electric start is an options on the generator. What options do
> I have for throwing that “switch” from the office. I am positive I am not
> the first one of us to want to do this.
>
>
>
> Thoughts everyone? I want to KISS so when I am not around others can do
> this with minimal training.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The short version:  I never sold that many, and this particular product
came up in discussions about product liablity insurance.  Not that it was
unsafe, just that there was some discomfort with the fact that I was
monitoring the AC power line.To remedy this I would have either had to
redesign to remove the AC monitoring hardware, or send the whole thing
through UL listing.   Based on the volume, I didn't really see any reason
to spend a lot of R time or money doing either.

I do expect the functionality in the generator controller will be able to
be replicated as a side effect of planned technology to be incorporated in
an upcoming product.


On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> Bummer. Guess there was not enough demand or to make variants?
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:18 PM George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
>> Yeahbut Forrest doesn't make the generator control board anymore.
>>
>>
>> On 12/20/2017 5:01 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>
>> I think packetflux is likely the easiest with the most to offer our of
>> the box. I know if one other out of the box solution that cost about 3
>> times as much. First can not only start it but he can use his shunt to make
>> sure it is actually started and producing current.
>>
>> If you want to do it yourself you could work some coding and such but it
>> doesn't sound like that is what you want to do. Arduino, raspberry pi, etc.
>> Could do this but you have to build it all yourself. Not really fast but
>> fun if you like that kind of thing.
>>
>> You would need some electronics knowledge if you don't want to spend a
>> few days googling. I guess you still have to know enough to make Google
>> work.
>>
>> Again, see Forest for his genset setup. I know a lot of people in this
>> list use it.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 4:39 PM Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>>
>> assuming you have a generator that does auto-choke and is wired for
>>> electrical remote start, like the small generac units sold for RV use and
>>> similar... where all you need to do is turn on a relay for 4-5 seconds to
>>> crank a starter, then turn off the relay again.
>>>
>>> one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/lan-controller/
>>>
>>> and one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/relays-board-10a-v3/
>>>
>>> or a thing like this: http://denkovi.com/ethernet-relay-card-5-
>>> channels-snmp-http-xml-real-time-clock-din-box
>>>
>>>
>>> there are quite a few different DIN mount relay-controllers with basic
>>> http interfaces to turn on and off things. Some support things like
>>> receiving an snmp trap to trigger a relay for automated scripting.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Brandon Yuchasz >> > wrote:
>>>
 We are looking at adding a remote start to a generator at an off grid
 site we have and I am gathering information  on options at this point.



 Right now we are all Solar at the site.  It’s a new site and if / when
 we draw down batteries beyond where we are comfortable we turn go to the
 site turn off the PV and start a generator manually and run a 48v battery
 charger on the bank. It’s a fairly low tech solution right now. We log in
 turn off the PV array and a guy goes out and pulls the rope on the
 generator and batteries start to charge. He then leaves and in three hours
 generator runs out of fuel and charging stops. Log back in turn the PV back
 on and that’s the end of the process.



 We are considering a few different options at the site and I don’t want
 to complicate this to much by offering to much information to start. Ill go
 into more details later but for now I am looking for a way to start a
 (different) propane generator remotely during the dark months. Most likely
 once a week in December and January.



 So assuming electric start is an options on the generator. What options
 do I have for throwing that “switch” from the office. I am positive I am
 not the first one of us to want to do this.



 Thoughts everyone? I want to KISS so when I am not around others can do
 this with minimal training.



 Thanks,

 Brandon





>>>
>>>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Bill Prince]

I've done 4 or 5 little hobby-type projects on a pi now, and it all goes 
amazingly smoothly.



bp


On 12/20/2017 7:27 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:


I was really surprised how fast my first pi project was. 5 hours from 
opening the box to a working prototype. Took another 5 hours to clean 
it up, put in logging, and make sure it starts on Boot.


I would think you could build something for this in about 3 times that 
many hours.



On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 9:23 PM Lewis Bergman > wrote:


Bummer. Guess there was not enough demand or to make variants?

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:18 PM George Skorup
> wrote:

Yeahbut Forrest doesn't make the generator control board anymore.


On 12/20/2017 5:01 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:


I think packetflux is likely the easiest with the most to
offer our of the box. I know if one other out of the box
solution that cost about 3 times as much. First can not only
start it but he can use his shunt to make sure it is actually
started and producing current.

If you want to do it yourself you could work some coding and
such but it doesn't sound like that is what you want to do.
Arduino, raspberry pi, etc. Could do this but you have to
build it all yourself. Not really fast but fun if you like
that kind of thing.

You would need some electronics knowledge if you don't want
to spend a few days googling. I guess you still have to know
enough to make Google work.

Again, see Forest for his genset setup. I know a lot of
people in this list use it.


On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 4:39 PM Eric Kuhnke
> wrote:

assuming you have a generator that does auto-choke and is
wired for electrical remote start, like the small generac
units sold for RV use and similar... where all you need
to do is turn on a relay for 4-5 seconds to crank a
starter, then turn off the relay again.

one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/lan-controller/

and one of these:
http://tinycontrol.pl/en/relays-board-10a-v3/

or a thing like this:

http://denkovi.com/ethernet-relay-card-5-channels-snmp-http-xml-real-time-clock-din-box


there are quite a few different DIN mount
relay-controllers with basic http interfaces to turn on
and off things. Some support things like receiving an
snmp trap to trigger a relay for automated scripting.

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Brandon Yuchasz
>
wrote:

We are looking at adding a remote start to a
generator at an off grid site we have and I am
gathering information  on options at this point.

Right now we are all Solar at the site.  It’s a new
site and if / when we draw down batteries beyond
where we are comfortable we turn go to the site turn
off the PV and start a generator manually and run a
48v battery charger on the bank. It’s a fairly low
tech solution right now. We log in turn off the PV
array and a guy goes out and pulls the rope on the
generator and batteries start to charge. He then
leaves and in three hours generator runs out of fuel
and charging stops. Log back in turn the PV back on
and that’s the end of the process.

We are considering a few different options at the
site and I don’t want to complicate this to much by
offering to much information to start. Ill go into
more details later but for now I am looking for a way
to start a (different) propane generator remotely
during the dark months. Most likely once a week in
December and January.

So assuming electric start is an options on the
generator. What options do I have for throwing that
“switch” from the office. I am positive I am not the
first one of us to want to do this.

Thoughts everyone? I want to KISS so when I am not
around others can do this with minimal training.

Thanks,

Brandon

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Lewis Bergman]

I was really surprised how fast my first pi project was. 5 hours from
opening the box to a working prototype. Took another 5 hours to clean it
up, put in logging, and make sure it starts on Boot.

I would think you could build something for this in about 3 times that many
hours.

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 9:23 PM Lewis Bergman  wrote:

> Bummer. Guess there was not enough demand or to make variants?
>
> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:18 PM George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
>> Yeahbut Forrest doesn't make the generator control board anymore.
>>
>>
>> On 12/20/2017 5:01 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>
>> I think packetflux is likely the easiest with the most to offer our of
>> the box. I know if one other out of the box solution that cost about 3
>> times as much. First can not only start it but he can use his shunt to make
>> sure it is actually started and producing current.
>>
>> If you want to do it yourself you could work some coding and such but it
>> doesn't sound like that is what you want to do. Arduino, raspberry pi, etc.
>> Could do this but you have to build it all yourself. Not really fast but
>> fun if you like that kind of thing.
>>
>> You would need some electronics knowledge if you don't want to spend a
>> few days googling. I guess you still have to know enough to make Google
>> work.
>>
>> Again, see Forest for his genset setup. I know a lot of people in this
>> list use it.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 4:39 PM Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>>
>> assuming you have a generator that does auto-choke and is wired for
>>> electrical remote start, like the small generac units sold for RV use and
>>> similar... where all you need to do is turn on a relay for 4-5 seconds to
>>> crank a starter, then turn off the relay again.
>>>
>>> one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/lan-controller/
>>>
>>> and one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/relays-board-10a-v3/
>>>
>>> or a thing like this:
>>> http://denkovi.com/ethernet-relay-card-5-channels-snmp-http-xml-real-time-clock-din-box
>>>
>>>
>>> there are quite a few different DIN mount relay-controllers with basic
>>> http interfaces to turn on and off things. Some support things like
>>> receiving an snmp trap to trigger a relay for automated scripting.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Brandon Yuchasz >> > wrote:
>>>
 We are looking at adding a remote start to a generator at an off grid
 site we have and I am gathering information  on options at this point.



 Right now we are all Solar at the site.  It’s a new site and if / when
 we draw down batteries beyond where we are comfortable we turn go to the
 site turn off the PV and start a generator manually and run a 48v battery
 charger on the bank. It’s a fairly low tech solution right now. We log in
 turn off the PV array and a guy goes out and pulls the rope on the
 generator and batteries start to charge. He then leaves and in three hours
 generator runs out of fuel and charging stops. Log back in turn the PV back
 on and that’s the end of the process.



 We are considering a few different options at the site and I don’t want
 to complicate this to much by offering to much information to start. Ill go
 into more details later but for now I am looking for a way to start a
 (different) propane generator remotely during the dark months. Most likely
 once a week in December and January.



 So assuming electric start is an options on the generator. What options
 do I have for throwing that “switch” from the office. I am positive I am
 not the first one of us to want to do this.



 Thoughts everyone? I want to KISS so when I am not around others can do
 this with minimal training.



 Thanks,

 Brandon





>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Lewis Bergman]

Bummer. Guess there was not enough demand or to make variants?

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:18 PM George Skorup 
wrote:

> Yeahbut Forrest doesn't make the generator control board anymore.
>
>
> On 12/20/2017 5:01 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> I think packetflux is likely the easiest with the most to offer our of the
> box. I know if one other out of the box solution that cost about 3 times as
> much. First can not only start it but he can use his shunt to make sure it
> is actually started and producing current.
>
> If you want to do it yourself you could work some coding and such but it
> doesn't sound like that is what you want to do. Arduino, raspberry pi, etc.
> Could do this but you have to build it all yourself. Not really fast but
> fun if you like that kind of thing.
>
> You would need some electronics knowledge if you don't want to spend a few
> days googling. I guess you still have to know enough to make Google work.
>
> Again, see Forest for his genset setup. I know a lot of people in this
> list use it.
>
> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 4:39 PM Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>
> assuming you have a generator that does auto-choke and is wired for
>> electrical remote start, like the small generac units sold for RV use and
>> similar... where all you need to do is turn on a relay for 4-5 seconds to
>> crank a starter, then turn off the relay again.
>>
>> one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/lan-controller/
>>
>> and one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/relays-board-10a-v3/
>>
>> or a thing like this:
>> http://denkovi.com/ethernet-relay-card-5-channels-snmp-http-xml-real-time-clock-din-box
>>
>>
>> there are quite a few different DIN mount relay-controllers with basic
>> http interfaces to turn on and off things. Some support things like
>> receiving an snmp trap to trigger a relay for automated scripting.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Brandon Yuchasz 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We are looking at adding a remote start to a generator at an off grid
>>> site we have and I am gathering information  on options at this point.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Right now we are all Solar at the site.  It’s a new site and if / when
>>> we draw down batteries beyond where we are comfortable we turn go to the
>>> site turn off the PV and start a generator manually and run a 48v battery
>>> charger on the bank. It’s a fairly low tech solution right now. We log in
>>> turn off the PV array and a guy goes out and pulls the rope on the
>>> generator and batteries start to charge. He then leaves and in three hours
>>> generator runs out of fuel and charging stops. Log back in turn the PV back
>>> on and that’s the end of the process.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We are considering a few different options at the site and I don’t want
>>> to complicate this to much by offering to much information to start. Ill go
>>> into more details later but for now I am looking for a way to start a
>>> (different) propane generator remotely during the dark months. Most likely
>>> once a week in December and January.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So assuming electric start is an options on the generator. What options
>>> do I have for throwing that “switch” from the office. I am positive I am
>>> not the first one of us to want to do this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thoughts everyone? I want to KISS so when I am not around others can do
>>> this with minimal training.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Chuck McCown]

If the gen has 2 wire start, you can have a voltage activated relay turn it on 
and off.  

From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 4:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

Ot buy a DC generador that start and stops At predetermined voltages...


Gino A. Villarini 
@gvillarini






  Gino A. Villarini
 
  President 
  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 




On Dec 20, 2017, at 7:18 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:


  Yeahbut Forrest doesn't make the generator control board anymore.


  On 12/20/2017 5:01 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

I think packetflux is likely the easiest with the most to offer our of the 
box. I know if one other out of the box solution that cost about 3 times as 
much. First can not only start it but he can use his shunt to make sure it is 
actually started and producing current.

If you want to do it yourself you could work some coding and such but it 
doesn't sound like that is what you want to do. Arduino, raspberry pi, etc. 
Could do this but you have to build it all yourself. Not really fast but fun if 
you like that kind of thing.

You would need some electronics knowledge if you don't want to spend a few 
days googling. I guess you still have to know enough to make Google work.

Again, see Forest for his genset setup. I know a lot of people in this list 
use it.




On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 4:39 PM Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote:

  assuming you have a generator that does auto-choke and is wired for 
electrical remote start, like the small generac units sold for RV use and 
similar... where all you need to do is turn on a relay for 4-5 seconds to crank 
a starter, then turn off the relay again. 

  one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/lan-controller/

  and one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/relays-board-10a-v3/

  or a thing like this: 
http://denkovi.com/ethernet-relay-card-5-channels-snmp-http-xml-real-time-clock-din-box


  there are quite a few different DIN mount relay-controllers with basic 
http interfaces to turn on and off things. Some support things like receiving 
an snmp trap to trigger a relay for automated scripting. 

  On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Brandon Yuchasz <li...@gogebicrange.net> 
wrote:

We are looking at adding a remote start to a generator at an off grid 
site we have and I am gathering information  on options at this point. 



Right now we are all Solar at the site.  It’s a new site and if / when 
we draw down batteries beyond where we are comfortable we turn go to the site 
turn off the PV and start a generator manually and run a 48v battery charger on 
the bank. It’s a fairly low tech solution right now. We log in turn off the PV 
array and a guy goes out and pulls the rope on the generator and batteries 
start to charge. He then leaves and in three hours generator runs out of fuel 
and charging stops. Log back in turn the PV back on and that’s the end of the 
process. 



We are considering a few different options at the site and I don’t want 
to complicate this to much by offering to much information to start. Ill go 
into more details later but for now I am looking for a way to start a 
(different) propane generator remotely during the dark months. Most likely once 
a week in December and January.  



So assuming electric start is an options on the generator. What options 
do I have for throwing that “switch” from the office. I am positive I am not 
the first one of us to want to do this.



Thoughts everyone? I want to KISS so when I am not around others can do 
this with minimal training.



Thanks,

Brandon

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Jesse DuPont]

  
  
We are working on integrating this right now with our propane
generator (it uses 2-wire start so for our Generac, we had to order
the 2-wire start kit and code from Generac to enable, but it was
free).

http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/auto-generator-start-stand-alone

Caveat - this doesn't meet you requirement of remotely starting it,
but it will start it automatically when the battery voltage drops
below a threshold.

If you PV panels are through a charge controller, you should not
have to turn them off when you're running your AC charger - they can
be on simultaneously, even if the sun comes out.


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Jesse DuPont

  Network
  Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC
  Celerity
  Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
  

  

On 12/20/17 3:30 PM, Brandon Yuchasz
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
We are looking at adding a remote start to
  a generator at an off grid site we have and I am gathering
  information  on options at this point. 
 
Right now we are all Solar at the site. 
  It’s a new site and if / when we draw down batteries beyond
  where we are comfortable we turn go to the site turn off the
  PV and start a generator manually and run a 48v battery
  charger on the bank. It’s a fairly low tech solution right
  now. We log in turn off the PV array and a guy goes out and
  pulls the rope on the generator and batteries start to charge.
  He then leaves and in three hours generator runs out of fuel
  and charging stops. Log back in turn the PV back on and that’s
  the end of the process. 
 
We are considering a few different options
  at the site and I don’t want to complicate this to much by
  offering to much information to start. Ill go into more
  details later but for now I am looking for a way to start a
  (different) propane generator remotely during the dark months.
  Most likely once a week in December and January.  
 
So assuming electric start is an options on
  the generator. What options do I have for throwing that
  “switch” from the office. I am positive I am not the first one
  of us to want to do this.
 
Thoughts everyone? I want to KISS so when I
  am not around others can do this with minimal training.
 
Thanks,
Brandon
 
 
  


  

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Gino A. Villarini]

Ot buy a DC generador that start and stops At predetermined voltages...

Gino A. Villarini
@gvillarini






Gino A. Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Dec 20, 2017, at 7:18 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:

Yeahbut Forrest doesn't make the generator control board anymore.

On 12/20/2017 5:01 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

I think packetflux is likely the easiest with the most to offer our of the box. 
I know if one other out of the box solution that cost about 3 times as much. 
First can not only start it but he can use his shunt to make sure it is 
actually started and producing current.

If you want to do it yourself you could work some coding and such but it 
doesn't sound like that is what you want to do. Arduino, raspberry pi, etc. 
Could do this but you have to build it all yourself. Not really fast but fun if 
you like that kind of thing.

You would need some electronics knowledge if you don't want to spend a few days 
googling. I guess you still have to know enough to make Google work.

Again, see Forest for his genset setup. I know a lot of people in this list use 
it.

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 4:39 PM Eric Kuhnke 
> wrote:
assuming you have a generator that does auto-choke and is wired for electrical 
remote start, like the small generac units sold for RV use and similar... where 
all you need to do is turn on a relay for 4-5 seconds to crank a starter, then 
turn off the relay again.

one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/lan-controller/

and one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/relays-board-10a-v3/

or a thing like this: 
http://denkovi.com/ethernet-relay-card-5-channels-snmp-http-xml-real-time-clock-din-box


there are quite a few different DIN mount relay-controllers with basic http 
interfaces to turn on and off things. Some support things like receiving an 
snmp trap to trigger a relay for automated scripting.

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Brandon Yuchasz 
> wrote:
We are looking at adding a remote start to a generator at an off grid site we 
have and I am gathering information  on options at this point.

Right now we are all Solar at the site.  It’s a new site and if / when we draw 
down batteries beyond where we are comfortable we turn go to the site turn off 
the PV and start a generator manually and run a 48v battery charger on the 
bank. It’s a fairly low tech solution right now. We log in turn off the PV 
array and a guy goes out and pulls the rope on the generator and batteries 
start to charge. He then leaves and in three hours generator runs out of fuel 
and charging stops. Log back in turn the PV back on and that’s the end of the 
process.

We are considering a few different options at the site and I don’t want to 
complicate this to much by offering to much information to start. Ill go into 
more details later but for now I am looking for a way to start a (different) 
propane generator remotely during the dark months. Most likely once a week in 
December and January.

So assuming electric start is an options on the generator. What options do I 
have for throwing that “switch” from the office. I am positive I am not the 
first one of us to want to do this.

Thoughts everyone? I want to KISS so when I am not around others can do this 
with minimal training.

Thanks,
Brandon

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[George Skorup]

Yeahbut Forrest doesn't make the generator control board anymore.

On 12/20/2017 5:01 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:


I think packetflux is likely the easiest with the most to offer our of 
the box. I know if one other out of the box solution that cost about 3 
times as much. First can not only start it but he can use his shunt to 
make sure it is actually started and producing current.


If you want to do it yourself you could work some coding and such but 
it doesn't sound like that is what you want to do. Arduino, raspberry 
pi, etc. Could do this but you have to build it all yourself. Not 
really fast but fun if you like that kind of thing.


You would need some electronics knowledge if you don't want to spend a 
few days googling. I guess you still have to know enough to make 
Google work.


Again, see Forest for his genset setup. I know a lot of people in this 
list use it.



On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 4:39 PM Eric Kuhnke > wrote:


assuming you have a generator that does auto-choke and is wired
for electrical remote start, like the small generac units sold for
RV use and similar... where all you need to do is turn on a relay
for 4-5 seconds to crank a starter, then turn off the relay again.

one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/lan-controller/

and one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/relays-board-10a-v3/

or a thing like this:

http://denkovi.com/ethernet-relay-card-5-channels-snmp-http-xml-real-time-clock-din-box


there are quite a few different DIN mount relay-controllers with
basic http interfaces to turn on and off things. Some support
things like receiving an snmp trap to trigger a relay for
automated scripting.

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Brandon Yuchasz
> wrote:

We are looking at adding a remote start to a generator at an
off grid site we have and I am gathering information  on
options at this point.

Right now we are all Solar at the site.  It’s a new site and
if / when we draw down batteries beyond where we are
comfortable we turn go to the site turn off the PV and start a
generator manually and run a 48v battery charger on the bank.
It’s a fairly low tech solution right now. We log in turn off
the PV array and a guy goes out and pulls the rope on the
generator and batteries start to charge. He then leaves and in
three hours generator runs out of fuel and charging stops. Log
back in turn the PV back on and that’s the end of the process.

We are considering a few different options at the site and I
don’t want to complicate this to much by offering to much
information to start. Ill go into more details later but for
now I am looking for a way to start a (different) propane
generator remotely during the dark months. Most likely once a
week in December and January.

So assuming electric start is an options on the generator.
What options do I have for throwing that “switch” from the
office. I am positive I am not the first one of us to want to
do this.

Thoughts everyone? I want to KISS so when I am not around
others can do this with minimal training.

Thanks,

Brandon

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Lewis Bergman]

I think packetflux is likely the easiest with the most to offer our of the
box. I know if one other out of the box solution that cost about 3 times as
much. First can not only start it but he can use his shunt to make sure it
is actually started and producing current.

If you want to do it yourself you could work some coding and such but it
doesn't sound like that is what you want to do. Arduino, raspberry pi, etc.
Could do this but you have to build it all yourself. Not really fast but
fun if you like that kind of thing.

You would need some electronics knowledge if you don't want to spend a few
days googling. I guess you still have to know enough to make Google work.

Again, see Forest for his genset setup. I know a lot of people in this list
use it.

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 4:39 PM Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> assuming you have a generator that does auto-choke and is wired for
> electrical remote start, like the small generac units sold for RV use and
> similar... where all you need to do is turn on a relay for 4-5 seconds to
> crank a starter, then turn off the relay again.
>
> one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/lan-controller/
>
> and one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/relays-board-10a-v3/
>
> or a thing like this:
> http://denkovi.com/ethernet-relay-card-5-channels-snmp-http-xml-real-time-clock-din-box
>
>
> there are quite a few different DIN mount relay-controllers with basic
> http interfaces to turn on and off things. Some support things like
> receiving an snmp trap to trigger a relay for automated scripting.
>
> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Brandon Yuchasz 
> wrote:
>
>> We are looking at adding a remote start to a generator at an off grid
>> site we have and I am gathering information  on options at this point.
>>
>>
>>
>> Right now we are all Solar at the site.  It’s a new site and if / when we
>> draw down batteries beyond where we are comfortable we turn go to the site
>> turn off the PV and start a generator manually and run a 48v battery
>> charger on the bank. It’s a fairly low tech solution right now. We log in
>> turn off the PV array and a guy goes out and pulls the rope on the
>> generator and batteries start to charge. He then leaves and in three hours
>> generator runs out of fuel and charging stops. Log back in turn the PV back
>> on and that’s the end of the process.
>>
>>
>>
>> We are considering a few different options at the site and I don’t want
>> to complicate this to much by offering to much information to start. Ill go
>> into more details later but for now I am looking for a way to start a
>> (different) propane generator remotely during the dark months. Most likely
>> once a week in December and January.
>>
>>
>>
>> So assuming electric start is an options on the generator. What options
>> do I have for throwing that “switch” from the office. I am positive I am
>> not the first one of us to want to do this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thoughts everyone? I want to KISS so when I am not around others can do
>> this with minimal training.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Eric Kuhnke]

assuming you have a generator that does auto-choke and is wired for
electrical remote start, like the small generac units sold for RV use and
similar... where all you need to do is turn on a relay for 4-5 seconds to
crank a starter, then turn off the relay again.

one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/lan-controller/

and one of these: http://tinycontrol.pl/en/relays-board-10a-v3/

or a thing like this:
http://denkovi.com/ethernet-relay-card-5-channels-snmp-http-xml-real-time-clock-din-box


there are quite a few different DIN mount relay-controllers with basic http
interfaces to turn on and off things. Some support things like receiving an
snmp trap to trigger a relay for automated scripting.

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Brandon Yuchasz 
wrote:

> We are looking at adding a remote start to a generator at an off grid site
> we have and I am gathering information  on options at this point.
>
>
>
> Right now we are all Solar at the site.  It’s a new site and if / when we
> draw down batteries beyond where we are comfortable we turn go to the site
> turn off the PV and start a generator manually and run a 48v battery
> charger on the bank. It’s a fairly low tech solution right now. We log in
> turn off the PV array and a guy goes out and pulls the rope on the
> generator and batteries start to charge. He then leaves and in three hours
> generator runs out of fuel and charging stops. Log back in turn the PV back
> on and that’s the end of the process.
>
>
>
> We are considering a few different options at the site and I don’t want to
> complicate this to much by offering to much information to start. Ill go
> into more details later but for now I am looking for a way to start a
> (different) propane generator remotely during the dark months. Most likely
> once a week in December and January.
>
>
>
> So assuming electric start is an options on the generator. What options do
> I have for throwing that “switch” from the office. I am positive I am not
> the first one of us to want to do this.
>
>
>
> Thoughts everyone? I want to KISS so when I am not around others can do
> this with minimal training.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
>
>

[AFMUG] Remote generator start options packetflux?

[Brandon Yuchasz]

We are looking at adding a remote start to a generator at an off grid site
we have and I am gathering information  on options at this point. 

 

Right now we are all Solar at the site.  It's a new site and if / when we
draw down batteries beyond where we are comfortable we turn go to the site
turn off the PV and start a generator manually and run a 48v battery charger
on the bank. It's a fairly low tech solution right now. We log in turn off
the PV array and a guy goes out and pulls the rope on the generator and
batteries start to charge. He then leaves and in three hours generator runs
out of fuel and charging stops. Log back in turn the PV back on and that's
the end of the process. 

 

We are considering a few different options at the site and I don't want to
complicate this to much by offering to much information to start. Ill go
into more details later but for now I am looking for a way to start a
(different) propane generator remotely during the dark months. Most likely
once a week in December and January.  

 

So assuming electric start is an options on the generator. What options do I
have for throwing that "switch" from the office. I am positive I am not the
first one of us to want to do this.

 

Thoughts everyone? I want to KISS so when I am not around others can do this
with minimal training.

 

Thanks,

Brandon