Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

[Justin Wilson]

Depends on the wording of the lease.  This is why attorneys exist.  LOL.  I had 
a grain leg owner years ago build a new, taller leg right next to the one I was 
and rent space to a competitor.  My lease did not specify the wording of 
“tower” enough so I was advised was all legit. From that point on all my leases 
had more verbage about such things.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

www.mtin.net
www.midwest-ix.com

> On Jun 28, 2017, at 2:52 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
> 
> And your question is?
> 
> 
> On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>> I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue 
>> under any circumstances.
>> 
>> We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site 
>> spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just 
>> not worth the hassle.
>> 
>> I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not 
>> us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I 
>> don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, 
>> Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment.
>> 
>> I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new 
>> stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, 
>> pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do 
>> my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non 
>> compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good 
>> fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one 
>> location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick)
>> 
>> So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum community 
>> Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp 
>> on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him and will be 
>> working on fixing that as of tomorrow)
>> 
>> I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing 
>> when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or 
>> some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower 3/4 
>> miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 feet of 
>> one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side points to 
>> the dirt)
>> 
>> The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the bulk 
>> of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I 
>> suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its 
>> called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) 
>> doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to 
>> fight it?
>> 
>> I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it is. 
>> The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn farts, 
>> unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked.
>> 
>> We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys would 
>> likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I cant 
>> share it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get full 
>> control of the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a lease 
>> handy to see the specific wording) per the site.
>> 
>> I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this 
>> boiling down to contract law, whats to stop us from A. willful interference 
>> (assuming out power doesn't get cut) and B. a cease and desist from a court 
>> for the other ISP, pending the 2 year termination?
>> 
>> I'm handing this to the boss to handle, because my communication will start 
>> with "listen here motherfucker" and I don't see that as conducive to a 
>> positive outcome. I had my boy with me when I came to the site today because 
>> I was just getting accurate AGLs for bringing in a licensed backhaul. If he 
>> hadn't been with me, I probably would have yanked their ghetto enclosure off 
>> the wall and shot their antennas.
>> 
>> Ill tell you what, I'm about to start acting like a lot of these yahoos and 
>> saying fuck the FCC, fuck good stewardship of the spectrum, and fuck general 
>> good manners.
>> 
>> TBH I'm not sure if I'm asking advice here or just venting. probably both. 
>> but FYI, I'm so pissed off right now, if you have an ex old lady who needs 
>> disappeared, I'm your freaking guy
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

[Rory Conaway]

Yea, typo.  Thanks for pointing that out so eloquently.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Andy Trimmell
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 5:41 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

#savage

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 2:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

Rogue vs. rouge

A rogue is (1) a scoundrel, (2) a vicious or solitary animal, or (3) a 
fraudulent piece of software. The word is also an 
adjective<http://grammarist.com/grammar/adjectives/> meaning vicious and 
solitary. Rouge is a pinkish color or a reddish powder. It’s also a 
verb<http://grammarist.com/grammar/verbs/> meaning to put rouge onto. It 
appears surprisingly often in place of rogue.

http://grammarist.com/spelling/rogue-rouge/

Just wanted to let you know.;-)

bp

<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>


On 7/17/2017 9:24 PM, Rory Conaway wrote:
Rouge access point suppression.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 8:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

Just an update on this nonsense. Turns out, this site is the only one who didnt 
sign the new cool beans lease, so im screwed in that regard. This fool has 4 
epmp up in 5.1, same channel, new essids indicate all other sites are 
configured the same. And hes ripped right through thr middle of me. But as he 
says, DFS will take care of it... fucking douche

On Jun 28, 2017 5:10 PM, "Dave" 
<dmilho...@wletc.com<mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:
Depends if hes from out of town :)

On 06/28/2017 02:45 PM, Chris Wright wrote:
All jokes aside, you do NOT want to get into a pissing match with another WISP. 
No one wins.

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

ubnt in test mode

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz 
<fai...@snappytelecom.net<mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net>> wrote:
Let's follow the logic...

Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the 'exclusivity' 
right you may have listed in the contract.

You can exercise your right to complain
You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play somewhere else.
Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who has a better 
relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each other... but at the 
end of the day.. the property owner is going to ask you to just get along !

So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to what you have 
in mind..

You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :)

:)



Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232<tel:%28305%29%20663-5518>

Help-desk: (305)663-5518<tel:%28305%29%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net<mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net>


From: "Steve Jones" 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
is there realistically any recourse?

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep 
<af...@abwisp.com<mailto:af...@abwisp.com>> wrote:
And your question is?



On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue 
under any circumstances.

We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site 
spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just not 
worth the hassle.

I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not us, 
cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't 
smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, Id recall 
a full EPMP and backhaul deployment.

I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new 
stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, pretty 
much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do my best to 
make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non compliant stuff I put 
up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor, ask 
anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one location I collocate where I'm 
a dick, but a legal dick)

So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum community Ive 
tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp on a bad 
choice I made with no follow up, I ow

Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

[Andy Trimmell]

#savage

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 2:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

 


Rogue vs. rouge


A rogue is (1) a scoundrel, (2) a vicious or solitary animal, or (3) a 
fraudulent piece of software. The word is also an adjective 
<http://grammarist.com/grammar/adjectives/>  meaning vicious and solitary. 
Rouge is a pinkish color or a reddish powder. It’s also a verb 
<http://grammarist.com/grammar/verbs/>  meaning to put rouge onto. It appears 
surprisingly often in place of rogue.

http://grammarist.com/spelling/rogue-rouge/

Just wanted to let you know.;-)

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
 

On 7/17/2017 9:24 PM, Rory Conaway wrote:

Rouge access point suppression.

 

Rory

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 8:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

 

Just an update on this nonsense. Turns out, this site is the only one 
who didnt sign the new cool beans lease, so im screwed in that regard. This 
fool has 4 epmp up in 5.1, same channel, new essids indicate all other sites 
are configured the same. And hes ripped right through thr middle of me. But as 
he says, DFS will take care of it... fucking douche

 

On Jun 28, 2017 5:10 PM, "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote:

Depends if hes from out of town :)
 

On 06/28/2017 02:45 PM, Chris Wright wrote:

All jokes aside, you do NOT want to get into a pissing match 
with another WISP. No one wins.

 

Chris Wright

Network Administrator

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
        Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

 

ubnt in test mode

 

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz 
<fai...@snappytelecom.net> wrote:

Let's follow the logic...

 

Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the 
'exclusivity' right you may have listed in the contract.

 

You can exercise your right to complain

You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play 
somewhere else.

Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who 
has a better relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each other... 
but at the end of the day.. the property owner is going to ask you to just get 
along !

 

So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to 
what you have in mind..

 

You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :)

 

:)

 

 

 

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <tel:%28305%29%20663-5518> 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <tel:%28305%29%20663-5518>  Option 2 
or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

 





From: "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM
        Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation 
(5ghz)

is there realistically any recourse?

 

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep 
<af...@abwisp.com> wrote:

And your question is?




On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I 
know this isn't an FCC issue under any circumstances.

We have leases with all our POP landlords, in 
the lease we own the site spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we 
don't collocate, just not worth the hassle.

I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet 
from our POP is a new POP, not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some 
powder with baking soda, I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even t

Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

[Bill Prince]

 Rogue vs. rouge

A*rogue*is (1) a scoundrel, (2) a vicious or solitary animal, or (3) a 
fraudulent piece of software. The word is also anadjective 
<http://grammarist.com/grammar/adjectives/>meaning/vicious and 
solitary/.*Rouge*is a pinkish color or a reddish powder. It’s also averb 
<http://grammarist.com/grammar/verbs/>meaning/to put rouge onto/. It 
appears surprisingly often in place of /rogue/.


http://grammarist.com/spelling/rogue-rouge/

Just wanted to let you know.;-)

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 7/17/2017 9:24 PM, Rory Conaway wrote:


Rouge access point suppression.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2017 8:05 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

Just an update on this nonsense. Turns out, this site is the only one 
who didnt sign the new cool beans lease, so im screwed in that regard. 
This fool has 4 epmp up in 5.1, same channel, new essids indicate all 
other sites are configured the same. And hes ripped right through thr 
middle of me. But as he says, DFS will take care of it... fucking douche


On Jun 28, 2017 5:10 PM, "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com 
<mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:


Depends if hes from out of town :)

On 06/28/2017 02:45 PM, Chris Wright wrote:

All jokes aside, you do NOT want to get into a pissing match with
another WISP. No one wins.

Chris Wright

Network Administrator

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:30 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

ubnt in test mode

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz
<fai...@snappytelecom.net <mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net>> wrote:

Let's follow the logic...

Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the
'exclusivity' right you may have listed in the contract.

You can exercise your right to complain

You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play
somewhere else.

Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who has
a better relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each
other... but at the end of the day.. the property owner is going
to ask you to just get along !

So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to
what you have in mind..

You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :)

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <tel:%28305%29%20663-5518>

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <tel:%28305%29%20663-5518> Option 2 or
Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net <mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net>



*From: *"Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
    *Sent: *Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

is there realistically any recourse?

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep <af...@abwisp.com
<mailto:af...@abwisp.com>> wrote:

And your question is?




On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this
isn't an FCC issue under any circumstances.

We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we
own the site spectrum, with the exception of very few
locations we don't collocate, just not worth the hassle.

I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP
is a new POP, not us, cause though I used to enjoy
spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't smoke
crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same
property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment.

I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time
UBT sent us new stickers for spectrum I made sure we
actually put them out (be honest, pretty much NOBODY did
that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do my
best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to
remove non compliant stuff I put up before I knew better.
For the most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor, ask
anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one location I
collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick)

So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the
spectrum community Ive tried to be (also found out today I
inadvert

Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

[Rory Conaway]

Rouge access point suppression.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 8:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

Just an update on this nonsense. Turns out, this site is the only one who didnt 
sign the new cool beans lease, so im screwed in that regard. This fool has 4 
epmp up in 5.1, same channel, new essids indicate all other sites are 
configured the same. And hes ripped right through thr middle of me. But as he 
says, DFS will take care of it... fucking douche

On Jun 28, 2017 5:10 PM, "Dave" 
<dmilho...@wletc.com<mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:
Depends if hes from out of town :)

On 06/28/2017 02:45 PM, Chris Wright wrote:
All jokes aside, you do NOT want to get into a pissing match with another WISP. 
No one wins.

Chris Wright
Network Administrator

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

ubnt in test mode

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz 
<fai...@snappytelecom.net<mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net>> wrote:
Let's follow the logic...

Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the 'exclusivity' 
right you may have listed in the contract.

You can exercise your right to complain
You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play somewhere else.
Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who has a better 
relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each other... but at the 
end of the day.. the property owner is going to ask you to just get along !

So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to what you have 
in mind..

You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :)

:)



Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232<tel:%28305%29%20663-5518>

Help-desk: (305)663-5518<tel:%28305%29%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net<mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net>


From: "Steve Jones" 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
is there realistically any recourse?

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep 
<af...@abwisp.com<mailto:af...@abwisp.com>> wrote:
And your question is?



On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue 
under any circumstances.

We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site 
spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just not 
worth the hassle.

I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not us, 
cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't 
smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, Id recall 
a full EPMP and backhaul deployment.

I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new 
stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, pretty 
much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do my best to 
make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non compliant stuff I put 
up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor, ask 
anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one location I collocate where I'm 
a dick, but a legal dick)

So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum community Ive 
tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp on a bad 
choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him and will be working on 
fixing that as of tomorrow)

I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing when 
it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or some other 
nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower 3/4 miles away 
with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 feet of one another 
(one link, one side points to the sky the other side points to the dirt)

The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the bulk of 
you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I suspect it 
is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its called and other 
such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) doesn't want to play 
ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to fight it?

I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it is. 
The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn farts, 
unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked.

We 

Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

[Steve Jones]

Just an update on this nonsense. Turns out, this site is the only one who
didnt sign the new cool beans lease, so im screwed in that regard. This
fool has 4 epmp up in 5.1, same channel, new essids indicate all other
sites are configured the same. And hes ripped right through thr middle of
me. But as he says, DFS will take care of it... fucking douche

On Jun 28, 2017 5:10 PM, "Dave" <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote:

> Depends if hes from out of town :)
>
>
> On 06/28/2017 02:45 PM, Chris Wright wrote:
>
> All jokes aside, you do NOT want to get into a pissing match with another
> WISP. No one wins.
>
>
>
> Chris Wright
>
> Network Administrator
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:30 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
>
>
>
> ubnt in test mode
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
> wrote:
>
> Let's follow the logic...
>
>
>
> Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the
> 'exclusivity' right you may have listed in the contract.
>
>
>
> You can exercise your right to complain
>
> You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play somewhere
> else.
>
> Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who has a
> better relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each other...
> but at the end of the day.. the property owner is going to ask you to just
> get along !
>
>
>
> So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to what you
> have in mind..
>
>
>
> You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :)
>
>
>
> :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <%28305%29%20663-5518>
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <%28305%29%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
> supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
>
> is there realistically any recourse?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep <af...@abwisp.com> wrote:
>
> And your question is?
>
>
>
>
> On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue
> under any circumstances.
>
> We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site
> spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just
> not worth the hassle.
>
> I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not
> us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I
> don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property,
> Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment.
>
> I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new
> stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest,
> pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do
> my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non
> compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a
> good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one
> location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick)
>
> So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum
> community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a
> fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him
> and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow)
>
> I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing
> when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or
> some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower
> 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8
> feet of one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side
> points to the dirt)
>
> The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the bulk
> of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I
> suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its
> called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels)
> doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to
> fight it?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

[Dave]

Depends if hes from out of town :)


On 06/28/2017 02:45 PM, Chris Wright wrote:


All jokes aside, you do NOT want to get into a pissing match with 
another WISP. No one wins.


Chris Wright

Network Administrator

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:30 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

ubnt in test mode

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz 
<fai...@snappytelecom.net <mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net>> wrote:


Let's follow the logic...

Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the 
'exclusivity' right you may have listed in the contract.


You can exercise your right to complain

You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play somewhere 
else.


Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who has a 
better relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each 
other... but at the end of the day.. the property owner is going to 
ask you to just get along !


So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to what 
you have in mind..


You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :)

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <tel:%28305%29%20663-5518>

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <tel:%28305%29%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net <mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net>




*From: *"Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
    *Sent: *Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM
    *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

is there realistically any recourse?

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep <af...@abwisp.com
<mailto:af...@abwisp.com>> wrote:

And your question is?




On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't
an FCC issue under any circumstances.

We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own
the site spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we
don't collocate, just not worth the hassle.

I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a
new POP, not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some
powder with baking soda, I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't
ours, even though its on the same property, Id recall a full
EPMP and backhaul deployment.

I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT
sent us new stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put
them out (be honest, pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down
power where we don't need it. I do my best to make sure we are
compliant. I fought bosses to remove non compliant stuff I put
up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good fucking
neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one
location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick)

So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the
spectrum community Ive tried to be (also found out today I
inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with
no follow up, I owned it with him and will be working on
fixing that as of tomorrow)

I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle.
I'm guessing when it gets in the database this backhaul is
going to be UBNT 11ghz, or some other nonsense (probably
affiliated with the over wind loaded tower 3/4 miles away with
3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 feet of
one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other
side points to the dirt)

The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law,
which the bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If the other
operator (if its who I suspect it is, they use fuckery, like
the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its called and other such
garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) doesn't
want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able
to fight it?

I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I
know who it is. The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers
unrealistic unicorn farts, unicorn farts always win, spectrum
gets fucked.

We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you
guys would likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and
though Ive asked, no I cant share it publicly, and yes, it was
drawn up by an attorney) we get full control of the 5, 6, 11,
3, 2, 

Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

[Robert Andrews]

Hence, a contract is not the thing we depend upon for our business, but 
the honesty of the people we deal with.   We survive in a vulnerable 
context and have to be ten times cautious..   Know the people who know 
those you depend upon, their friends attest to their character and by 
association yours...




On 06/28/2017 12:36 PM, James Howard wrote:

Seems to me that the wording of the contract is the key to this.  What
does it define as the �site� that you have exclusive rights to.  I
believe our contract indicates either an address or a specific structure
on an address if we include exclusive rights (which we typically do).
IANAL but I would guess that if your contract doesn�t include specifics
to the amount of area that you have exclusive rights to that you would
not win.  The other WISP does not have any contract with you that they
are violating.  The landlord is the only violator.  The obvious problem
with that if it escalates you end up with a bad relationship with the
landlord and end up pretty much losing either way.



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2017 2:21 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)



that's what I'm wondering, I guess if we got a cease and desist it would
be against the landlord, who would have to stop the tenant?



On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com
<mailto:ch...@lakenetmi.com>> wrote:

Your recourse would be with the landlord. Unfortunately this puts
them in a bad situation since they violated the terms of your lease
with them. I don't think you have any way to make a claim agianst
the other ISP unless you had some non-compete agreement with them or
something.



On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

is there realistically any recourse?



On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep <af...@abwisp.com
<mailto:af...@abwisp.com>> wrote:

And your question is?




On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this
isn't an FCC issue under any circumstances.

We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease
we own the site spectrum, with the exception of very few
locations we don't collocate, just not worth the hassle.

I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP
is a new POP, not us, cause though I used to enjoy
spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't smoke
crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same
property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment.

I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time
UBT sent us new stickers for spectrum I made sure we
actually put them out (be honest, pretty much NOBODY did
that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do my
best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to
remove non compliant stuff I put up before I knew
better. For the most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor,
ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one
location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick)

So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the
spectrum community Ive tried to be (also found out today
I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp on a bad choice I
made with no follow up, I owned it with him and will be
working on fixing that as of tomorrow)

I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a
battle. I'm guessing when it gets in the database this
backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or some other
nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded
tower 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut
shaped airfibers within 8 feet of one another (one link,
one side points to the sky the other side points to the
dirt)

The question I have is about lease rules, and contract
law, which the bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If
the other operator (if its who I suspect it is, they use
fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its called
and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in
DFS channels) doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut
that shit off" will we be able to fight it?

I know what went down, and how it went down, and I
suspe

Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

[Chris Wright]

All jokes aside, you do NOT want to get into a pissing match with another WISP. 
No one wins.

 

Chris Wright

Network Administrator

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

 

ubnt in test mode

 

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net> wrote:

Let's follow the logic...

 

Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the 'exclusivity' 
right you may have listed in the contract.

 

You can exercise your right to complain

You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play somewhere else.

Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who has a better 
relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each other... but at the 
end of the day.. the property owner is going to ask you to just get along !

 

So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to what you have 
in mind..

 

You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :)

 

:)

 

 

 

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <tel:(305)%20663-5518> 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <tel:(305)%20663-5518>  Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net

 

  _  

From: "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

is there realistically any recourse?

 

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep <af...@abwisp.com> wrote:

And your question is?




On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue 
under any circumstances.

We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site 
spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just not 
worth the hassle.

I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not us, 
cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't 
smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, Id recall 
a full EPMP and backhaul deployment.

I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new 
stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, pretty 
much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do my best to 
make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non compliant stuff I put 
up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor, ask 
anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one location I collocate where I'm 
a dick, but a legal dick)

So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum community Ive 
tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp on a bad 
choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him and will be working on 
fixing that as of tomorrow)

I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing when 
it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or some other 
nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower 3/4 miles away 
with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 feet of one another 
(one link, one side points to the sky the other side points to the dirt)

The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the bulk of 
you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I suspect it 
is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its called and other 
such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) doesn't want to play 
ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to fight it?

I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it is. 
The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn farts, 
unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked.

We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys would 
likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I cant share 
it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get full control of 
the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a lease handy to see the 
specific wording) per the site.

I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this boiling 
down to contract law, whats to stop us from A. willful interference (assuming 
out power doesn't get cut) and B. a cease and desist from a court for the other 
ISP, pending the 2 year termination?

I'm handing this to the boss to handle, because my communication will start 
with "listen here motherfucker" and I don't see that as conducive to a positive 
outcome. I had my boy with me when I came to the site today because I was just 
getting accurate AGLs for bringing in a licensed backhaul. If he hadn't been 
with me, 

Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

[James Howard]

Seems to me that the wording of the contract is the key to this.  What does it 
define as the "site" that you have exclusive rights to.  I believe our contract 
indicates either an address or a specific structure on an address if we include 
exclusive rights (which we typically do).  IANAL but I would guess that if your 
contract doesn't include specifics to the amount of area that you have 
exclusive rights to that you would not win.  The other WISP does not have any 
contract with you that they are violating.  The landlord is the only violator.  
The obvious problem with that if it escalates you end up with a bad 
relationship with the landlord and end up pretty much losing either way.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 2:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

that's what I'm wondering, I guess if we got a cease and desist it would be 
against the landlord, who would have to stop the tenant?

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Chris Fabien 
<ch...@lakenetmi.com<mailto:ch...@lakenetmi.com>> wrote:
Your recourse would be with the landlord. Unfortunately this puts them in a bad 
situation since they violated the terms of your lease with them. I don't think 
you have any way to make a claim agianst the other ISP unless you had some 
non-compete agreement with them or something.

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Steve Jones 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
is there realistically any recourse?

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep 
<af...@abwisp.com<mailto:af...@abwisp.com>> wrote:
And your question is?



On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue 
under any circumstances.

We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site 
spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just not 
worth the hassle.

I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not us, 
cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't 
smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, Id recall 
a full EPMP and backhaul deployment.

I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new 
stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, pretty 
much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do my best to 
make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non compliant stuff I put 
up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor, ask 
anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one location I collocate where I'm 
a dick, but a legal dick)

So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum community Ive 
tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp on a bad 
choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him and will be working on 
fixing that as of tomorrow)

I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing when 
it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or some other 
nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower 3/4 miles away 
with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 feet of one another 
(one link, one side points to the sky the other side points to the dirt)

The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the bulk of 
you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I suspect it 
is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its called and other 
such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) doesn't want to play 
ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to fight it?

I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it is. 
The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn farts, 
unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked.

We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys would 
likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I cant share 
it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get full control of 
the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a lease handy to see the 
specific wording) per the site.

I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this boiling 
down to contract law, whats to stop us from A. willful interference (assuming 
out power doesn't get cut) and B. a cease and desist from a court for the other 
ISP, pending the 2 year termination?

I'm handing this to the boss to handle, because my communication will start 
with "listen here motherfucker" and I don't see that as conducive to a positive 
outcome. I had my boy with me when I came to the site today because I was just 
getting accurate AGLs for bringing in a licensed 

Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

[Steve Jones]

ubnt in test mode

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
wrote:

> Let's follow the logic...
>
> Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the
> 'exclusivity' right you may have listed in the contract.
>
> You can exercise your right to complain
> You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play somewhere
> else.
> Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who has a
> better relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each other...
> but at the end of the day.. the property owner is going to ask you to just
> get along !
>
> So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to what you
> have in mind..
>
> You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :)
>
> :)
>
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <(305)%20663-5518>
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
> supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)
>
> is there realistically any recourse?
>
> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep <af...@abwisp.com> wrote:
>
>> And your question is?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>>> I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC
>>> issue under any circumstances.
>>>
>>> We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site
>>> spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just
>>> not worth the hassle.
>>>
>>> I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP,
>>> not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda,
>>> I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same
>>> property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment.
>>>
>>> I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new
>>> stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest,
>>> pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do
>>> my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non
>>> compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a
>>> good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one
>>> location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick)
>>>
>>> So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum
>>> community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a
>>> fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him
>>> and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow)
>>>
>>> I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing
>>> when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or
>>> some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower
>>> 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8
>>> feet of one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side
>>> points to the dirt)
>>>
>>> The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the
>>> bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I
>>> suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its
>>> called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels)
>>> doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to
>>> fight it?
>>>
>>> I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it
>>> is. The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn
>>> farts, unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked.
>>>
>>> We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys
>>> would likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I
>>> cant share it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get
>>> full control of the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a
>>> lease handy to see the specific wording) per the site.
>>>
>>> I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this
>>> boiling dow

Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Let's follow the logic... 

Property Owner wants more $, as such has chosen to ignore the 'exclusivity' 
right you may have listed in the contract. 

You can exercise your right to complain 
You can exercise your right to take your marbles and go play somewhere else. 
Depending on who is paying more to the property owner, and who has a better 
relationship, you or the other guy can complaint on each other... but at the 
end of the day.. the property owner is going to ask you to just get along ! 

So the short answer is . NO, there is realistic recourse to what you have 
in mind.. 

You can always deploy Mimosa gear using 80mhz channels :) 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:10:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

> is there realistically any recourse?

> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep < af...@abwisp.com > wrote:

>> And your question is?

>> On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

>>> I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC issue 
>>> under
>>> any circumstances.

>>> We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site
>>> spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just 
>>> not
>>> worth the hassle.

>>> I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, not 
>>> us,
>>> cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda, I don't
>>> smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same property, Id 
>>> recall
>>> a full EPMP and backhaul deployment.

>>> I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new
>>> stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest, 
>>> pretty
>>> much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do my 
>>> best to
>>> make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non compliant stuff I 
>>> put
>>> up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor, ask
>>> anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one location I collocate where 
>>> I'm
>>> a dick, but a legal dick)

>>> So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum community 
>>> Ive
>>> tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a fellow wisp on a 
>>> bad
>>> choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him and will be working on
>>> fixing that as of tomorrow)

>>> I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing 
>>> when it
>>> gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or some other
>>> nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower 3/4 miles away
>>> with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8 feet of one 
>>> another
>>> (one link, one side points to the sky the other side points to the dirt)

>>> The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the bulk 
>>> of
>>> you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I suspect 
>>> it
>>> is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its called and 
>>> other
>>> such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels) doesn't want to 
>>> play
>>> ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to fight it?

>>> I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it 
>>> is. The
>>> usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn farts, 
>>> unicorn
>>> farts always win, spectrum gets fucked.

>>> We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys would 
>>> likely
>>> cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I cant share it
>>> publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get full control of 
>>> the
>>> 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a lease handy to see the
>>> specific wording) per the site.

>>> I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this 
>>> boiling
>>> down to contract law, whats to stop us from A. willful interference 
>>> (assuming
>>> out power doesn't get cut) and B. a cease and desist from a court for the 
>>> other
>>> ISP, pending th

Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

[Steve Jones]

that's what I'm wondering, I guess if we got a cease and desist it would be
against the landlord, who would have to stop the tenant?

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:

> Your recourse would be with the landlord. Unfortunately this puts them in
> a bad situation since they violated the terms of your lease with them. I
> don't think you have any way to make a claim agianst the other ISP unless
> you had some non-compete agreement with them or something.
>
> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> is there realistically any recourse?
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
>>
>>> And your question is?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>
 I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC
 issue under any circumstances.

 We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site
 spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just
 not worth the hassle.

 I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP,
 not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda,
 I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same
 property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment.

 I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us
 new stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest,
 pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do
 my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non
 compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a
 good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one
 location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick)

 So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum
 community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a
 fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him
 and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow)

 I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm
 guessing when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT
 11ghz, or some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind
 loaded tower 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped
 airfibers within 8 feet of one another (one link, one side points to the
 sky the other side points to the dirt)

 The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the
 bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I
 suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its
 called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels)
 doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to
 fight it?

 I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who
 it is. The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn
 farts, unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked.

 We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys
 would likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I
 cant share it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get
 full control of the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a
 lease handy to see the specific wording) per the site.

 I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this
 boiling down to contract law, whats to stop us from A. willful interference
 (assuming out power doesn't get cut) and B. a cease and desist from a court
 for the other ISP, pending the 2 year termination?

 I'm handing this to the boss to handle, because my communication will
 start with "listen here motherfucker" and I don't see that as conducive to
 a positive outcome. I had my boy with me when I came to the site today
 because I was just getting accurate AGLs for bringing in a licensed
 backhaul. If he hadn't been with me, I probably would have yanked their
 ghetto enclosure off the wall and shot their antennas.

 Ill tell you what, I'm about to start acting like a lot of these yahoos
 and saying fuck the FCC, fuck good stewardship of the spectrum, and fuck
 general good manners.

 TBH I'm not sure if I'm asking advice here or just venting. probably
 both. but FYI, I'm so pissed off right now, if you have an ex old lady who
 needs disappeared, I'm your freaking guy

>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

[Chris Fabien]

Your recourse would be with the landlord. Unfortunately this puts them in a
bad situation since they violated the terms of your lease with them. I
don't think you have any way to make a claim agianst the other ISP unless
you had some non-compete agreement with them or something.

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> is there realistically any recourse?
>
> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
>
>> And your question is?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>>> I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC
>>> issue under any circumstances.
>>>
>>> We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site
>>> spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just
>>> not worth the hassle.
>>>
>>> I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP,
>>> not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda,
>>> I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same
>>> property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment.
>>>
>>> I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new
>>> stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest,
>>> pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do
>>> my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non
>>> compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a
>>> good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one
>>> location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick)
>>>
>>> So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum
>>> community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a
>>> fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him
>>> and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow)
>>>
>>> I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing
>>> when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or
>>> some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower
>>> 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8
>>> feet of one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side
>>> points to the dirt)
>>>
>>> The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the
>>> bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I
>>> suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its
>>> called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels)
>>> doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to
>>> fight it?
>>>
>>> I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it
>>> is. The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn
>>> farts, unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked.
>>>
>>> We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys
>>> would likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I
>>> cant share it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get
>>> full control of the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a
>>> lease handy to see the specific wording) per the site.
>>>
>>> I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this
>>> boiling down to contract law, whats to stop us from A. willful interference
>>> (assuming out power doesn't get cut) and B. a cease and desist from a court
>>> for the other ISP, pending the 2 year termination?
>>>
>>> I'm handing this to the boss to handle, because my communication will
>>> start with "listen here motherfucker" and I don't see that as conducive to
>>> a positive outcome. I had my boy with me when I came to the site today
>>> because I was just getting accurate AGLs for bringing in a licensed
>>> backhaul. If he hadn't been with me, I probably would have yanked their
>>> ghetto enclosure off the wall and shot their antennas.
>>>
>>> Ill tell you what, I'm about to start acting like a lot of these yahoos
>>> and saying fuck the FCC, fuck good stewardship of the spectrum, and fuck
>>> general good manners.
>>>
>>> TBH I'm not sure if I'm asking advice here or just venting. probably
>>> both. but FYI, I'm so pissed off right now, if you have an ex old lady who
>>> needs disappeared, I'm your freaking guy
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

[Steve Jones]

is there realistically any recourse?

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:

> And your question is?
>
>
>
> On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
>> I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC
>> issue under any circumstances.
>>
>> We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site
>> spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just
>> not worth the hassle.
>>
>> I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP,
>> not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda,
>> I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same
>> property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment.
>>
>> I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new
>> stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest,
>> pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do
>> my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non
>> compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a
>> good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one
>> location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick)
>>
>> So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum
>> community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a
>> fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him
>> and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow)
>>
>> I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing
>> when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or
>> some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower
>> 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8
>> feet of one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side
>> points to the dirt)
>>
>> The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the
>> bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I
>> suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its
>> called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels)
>> doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to
>> fight it?
>>
>> I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it
>> is. The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn
>> farts, unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked.
>>
>> We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys would
>> likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I cant
>> share it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get full
>> control of the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a lease
>> handy to see the specific wording) per the site.
>>
>> I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this
>> boiling down to contract law, whats to stop us from A. willful interference
>> (assuming out power doesn't get cut) and B. a cease and desist from a court
>> for the other ISP, pending the 2 year termination?
>>
>> I'm handing this to the boss to handle, because my communication will
>> start with "listen here motherfucker" and I don't see that as conducive to
>> a positive outcome. I had my boy with me when I came to the site today
>> because I was just getting accurate AGLs for bringing in a licensed
>> backhaul. If he hadn't been with me, I probably would have yanked their
>> ghetto enclosure off the wall and shot their antennas.
>>
>> Ill tell you what, I'm about to start acting like a lot of these yahoos
>> and saying fuck the FCC, fuck good stewardship of the spectrum, and fuck
>> general good manners.
>>
>> TBH I'm not sure if I'm asking advice here or just venting. probably
>> both. but FYI, I'm so pissed off right now, if you have an ex old lady who
>> needs disappeared, I'm your freaking guy
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

[Mitch Koep]

And your question is?


On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC 
issue under any circumstances.


We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the 
site spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't 
collocate, just not worth the hassle.


I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP, 
not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking 
soda, I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the 
same property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment.


I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us 
new stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be 
honest, pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't 
need it. I do my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses 
to remove non compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the 
most part, I'm a good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with 
the exception of one location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a 
legal dick)


So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum 
community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked 
a fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it 
with him and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow)


I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm 
guessing when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be 
UBNT 11ghz, or some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over 
wind loaded tower 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut 
shaped airfibers within 8 feet of one another (one link, one side 
points to the sky the other side points to the dirt)


The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the 
bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its 
who I suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or 
whatever its called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered 
in DFS channels) doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" 
will we be able to fight it?


I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who 
it is. The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic 
unicorn farts, unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked.


We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys 
would likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, 
no I cant share it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) 
we get full control of the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I 
don't have a lease handy to see the specific wording) per the site.


I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with 
this boiling down to contract law, whats to stop us from A. willful 
interference (assuming out power doesn't get cut) and B. a cease and 
desist from a court for the other ISP, pending the 2 year termination?


I'm handing this to the boss to handle, because my communication will 
start with "listen here motherfucker" and I don't see that as 
conducive to a positive outcome. I had my boy with me when I came to 
the site today because I was just getting accurate AGLs for bringing 
in a licensed backhaul. If he hadn't been with me, I probably would 
have yanked their ghetto enclosure off the wall and shot their antennas.


Ill tell you what, I'm about to start acting like a lot of these 
yahoos and saying fuck the FCC, fuck good stewardship of the spectrum, 
and fuck general good manners.


TBH I'm not sure if I'm asking advice here or just venting. probably 
both. but FYI, I'm so pissed off right now, if you have an ex old lady 
who needs disappeared, I'm your freaking guy