Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-06 Thread Daniel White 
Honestly, I think the effort is to keep the datasheet to only one page 
front/back.  Easier to print and put in your booth at a show.



BridgeWave was always transparent about the specs… you just had to dig a little 
to find them :-)



Daniel White

Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

ConVergence Technologies

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

 <mailto:dwh...@converge-tech.com> dwh...@converge-tech.com



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 8:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance



If the data is not there they are hiding something/blowing smoke.

More detailed engineering data always makes your product look more legit.  



Remember the radios that used to give you only range?  Good for 25 miles...



From: Daniel White

Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 11:12 PM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance



The entire time I worked for BridgeWave, TX Power was never on the datasheet.  
Only link budget.



Same with Siklu datasheets – only link budget is there.



I’m lazy now with online calculators… but  I like having all of the data 
myself.  I’ve always been bothered by not having RX sensitivity tables and TX 
power information on datasheets as well.  I feel like they are trying to hide 
something :-D



Daniel White

Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

ConVergence Technologies

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

dwh...@converge-tech.com <mailto:dwh...@converge-tech.com>



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 7:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance



No I've never been "let down" by one - there's link budget info there, but up 
until very recently their datasheets didn't have the radio's Tx power in them. 
Whereas the older E-band manufacturers put their Tx power right out there in 
the data table for the radio alongside stuff like the power consumption. Making 
it much easier to manually calculate a predicted link with a typical 30 or 60cm 
antenna rather than using a manufacturer's online web page link estimation tool.

Maybe I'm too old school and remember when it was necessary to manually 
calculate a link because there was no such thing as a GUI HTML5 link budget 
tool on a manufacturer's website, you actually had to think about things like 
transmit power, RSL thresholds in dB for varying modulations, etc.



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Daniel White <afmu...@gmail.com 
<mailto:afmu...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I feel like Siklu let you down in some horrible way Eric.



Siklu has their link budget info right on their datasheets.  Need the extra TX 
power, go with one of the newer radios.



700 – 5dBm

1200 – 7dBm

2200 – 11dBm

2500 – 18.5dBm

5500 – 16dBm (what’s this ;-)



http://lbc.siklu.com/



Back when they only had the 1200 which has that +7dBm TX power is certainly 
limited the radio, and many people mis-deployed it under guidelines they would 
use for BridgeWave.  But that is simply poor engineering.



But also to put into context – lowest average rain rate in North America is 
typically 25 mm/hr for 99.99% operation.  That is 10dB of fade at 1km at 99.99% 
availability.  So your argument is true – that is 1km of distance your leaving 
on the table.  See the chart below I made many moons ago.







Every 60GHz/80GHz (regardless of vendor) I have engineered performs to spec.  
Engineer, engineer, engineer.



Daniel White

Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

ConVergence Technologies

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590 <tel:%2B1%20%28303%29%20746-3590>

dwh...@converge-tech.com <mailto:dwh...@converge-tech.com>



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance



Siklu's sales and marketing department goes to a great deal of effort and fluff 
to obscure the fact that many of their 80 GHz radios are not +18 or +19 Tx 
power, but are more like +7 or +10 coming out of the radio waveguide port.



There's a reason why some of the more expensive 80 GHz products 
(Moseley/Remec/Bridgewave), SIAE, NEC etc are more costly, that's because of 
the total link budget you can achieve with +18 Tx power going into a 52dBi gain 
60cm antenna.



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com <mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > 
wrote:

Their charts on that sheet still seem fairly optimistic to me.



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net 
<mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net> > wrote:

Context !  Context ! Context !





http://www.siklu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Overbuild-tech-note-Final-.pdf



Some interesting suggestions in there !





Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet &

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-06 Thread Mike Hammett 
Ubiquiti's airFiber line is notorious for not giving you all of the information 
you need for proper engineering. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:21:59 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance 




If the data is not there they are hiding something/blowing smoke. 
More detailed engineering data always makes your product look more legit. 

Remember the radios that used to give you only range? Good for 25 miles... 




From: Daniel White 
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 11:12 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance 



The entire time I worked for BridgeWave, TX Power was never on the datasheet. 
Only link budget. 

Same with Siklu datasheets – only link budget is there. 

I’m lazy now with online calculators… but I like having all of the data myself. 
I’ve always been bothered by not having RX sensitivity tables and TX power 
information on datasheets as well. I feel like they are trying to hide 
something :-D 

Daniel White 
Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales 
ConVergence Technologies 
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590 
dwh...@converge-tech.com 




From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 7:46 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance 


No I've never been "let down" by one - there's link budget info there, but up 
until very recently their datasheets didn't have the radio's Tx power in them. 
Whereas the older E-band manufacturers put their Tx power right out there in 
the data table for the radio alongside stuff like the power consumption. Making 
it much easier to manually calculate a predicted link with a typical 30 or 60cm 
antenna rather than using a manufacturer's online web page link estimation 
tool. 

Maybe I'm too old school and remember when it was necessary to manually 
calculate a link because there was no such thing as a GUI HTML5 link budget 
tool on a manufacturer's website, you actually had to think about things like 
transmit power, RSL thresholds in dB for varying modulations, etc. 



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Daniel White < afmu...@gmail.com > wrote: 




I feel like Siklu let you down in some horrible way Eric. 

Siklu has their link budget info right on their datasheets. Need the extra TX 
power, go with one of the newer radios. 

700 – 5dBm 
1200 – 7dBm 
2200 – 11dBm 
2500 – 18.5dBm 
5500 – 16dBm (what’s this ;-) 

http://lbc.siklu.com/ 

Back when they only had the 1200 which has that +7dBm TX power is certainly 
limited the radio, and many people mis-deployed it under guidelines they would 
use for BridgeWave. But that is simply poor engineering. 

But also to put into context – lowest average rain rate in North America is 
typically 25 mm/hr for 99.99% operation. That is 10dB of fade at 1km at 99.99% 
availability. So your argument is true – that is 1km of distance your leaving 
on the table. See the chart below I made many moons ago. 



Every 60GHz/80GHz (regardless of vendor) I have engineered performs to spec. 
Engineer, engineer, engineer. 

Daniel White 
Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales 
ConVergence Technologies 
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590 
dwh...@converge-tech.com 




From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:13 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance 


Siklu's sales and marketing department goes to a great deal of effort and fluff 
to obscure the fact that many of their 80 GHz radios are not +18 or +19 Tx 
power, but are more like +7 or +10 coming out of the radio waveguide port. 




There's a reason why some of the more expensive 80 GHz products 
(Moseley/Remec/Bridgewave), SIAE, NEC etc are more costly, that's because of 
the total link budget you can achieve with +18 Tx power going into a 52dBi gain 
60cm antenna. 





On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Jason McKemie < 
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com > wrote: 



Their charts on that sheet still seem fairly optimistic to me. 



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz < fai...@snappytelecom.net > 
wrote: 





Context ! Context ! Context ! 





http://www.siklu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Overbuild-tech-note-Final-.pdf 



Some interesting suggestions in there ! 





Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 







From: "Jason McKemie" < j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:22:39 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance 






I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer gigabit 
speeds at 8+ miles. This seems dishonest at best. I guess they didn't say where

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-06 Thread chuck 
If the data is not there they are hiding something/blowing smoke.  
More detailed engineering data always makes your product look more legit.  

Remember the radios that used to give you only range?  Good for 25 miles...

From: Daniel White 
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 11:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

The entire time I worked for BridgeWave, TX Power was never on the datasheet.  
Only link budget.

 

Same with Siklu datasheets – only link budget is there.

 

I’m lazy now with online calculators… but  I like having all of the data 
myself.  I’ve always been bothered by not having RX sensitivity tables and TX 
power information on datasheets as well.  I feel like they are trying to hide 
something :-D

 

Daniel White

Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

ConVergence Technologies

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

dwh...@converge-tech.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 7:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

 

No I've never been "let down" by one - there's link budget info there, but up 
until very recently their datasheets didn't have the radio's Tx power in them. 
Whereas the older E-band manufacturers put their Tx power right out there in 
the data table for the radio alongside stuff like the power consumption. Making 
it much easier to manually calculate a predicted link with a typical 30 or 60cm 
antenna rather than using a manufacturer's online web page link estimation 
tool.  

Maybe I'm too old school and remember when it was necessary to manually 
calculate a link because there was no such thing as a GUI HTML5 link budget 
tool on a manufacturer's website, you actually had to think about things like 
transmit power, RSL thresholds in dB for varying modulations, etc.

 

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Daniel White <afmu...@gmail.com> wrote:

  I feel like Siklu let you down in some horrible way Eric.

   

  Siklu has their link budget info right on their datasheets.  Need the extra 
TX power, go with one of the newer radios.

   

  700 – 5dBm

  1200 – 7dBm

  2200 – 11dBm

  2500 – 18.5dBm

  5500 – 16dBm (what’s this ;-)

   

  http://lbc.siklu.com/

   

  Back when they only had the 1200 which has that +7dBm TX power is certainly 
limited the radio, and many people mis-deployed it under guidelines they would 
use for BridgeWave.  But that is simply poor engineering.

   

  But also to put into context – lowest average rain rate in North America is 
typically 25 mm/hr for 99.99% operation.  That is 10dB of fade at 1km at 99.99% 
availability.  So your argument is true – that is 1km of distance your leaving 
on the table.  See the chart below I made many moons ago.

   



   

  Every 60GHz/80GHz (regardless of vendor) I have engineered performs to spec.  
Engineer, engineer, engineer.

   

  Daniel White

  Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

  ConVergence Technologies

  Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

  dwh...@converge-tech.com

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
  Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:13 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

   

  Siklu's sales and marketing department goes to a great deal of effort and 
fluff to obscure the fact that many of their 80 GHz radios are not +18 or +19 
Tx power, but are more like +7 or +10 coming out of the radio waveguide port.



  There's a reason why some of the more expensive 80 GHz products 
(Moseley/Remec/Bridgewave), SIAE, NEC etc are more costly, that's because of 
the total link budget you can achieve with +18 Tx power going into a 52dBi gain 
60cm antenna. 

   

  On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

Their charts on that sheet still seem fairly optimistic to me.

 

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net> 
wrote:

  Context !  Context ! Context !

   

   

  
http://www.siklu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Overbuild-tech-note-Final-.pdf

   

  Some interesting suggestions in there !

   

   

  Faisal Imtiaz
  Snappy Internet & Telecom
  7266 SW 48 Street
  Miami, FL 33155
  Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

  Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

   


--

From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:22:39 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer 
gigabit speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they didn't 
say where the link had to be located to get this distance...

 

 

   

   


   Virus-free. www.avast.com 
   

 


 Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-06 Thread Jaime Solorza 
Sure.. Sure... Whatever...

On Oct 5, 2016 11:09 PM, "Daniel White" <afmu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ha I said I engineered it.  Never said I went onsite :-D
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
>
> ConVergence Technologies
>
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>
> dwh...@converge-tech.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 5, 2016 7:28 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm <af@afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance
>
>
>
> So you come to my neighborhood and didn't let me know?   You missed some
> great food and fun...
>
>
>
> On Oct 5, 2016 7:20 PM, "Daniel White" <afmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Problem is your only thinking in the context of five nines wireless.
>
>
>
> No one with any common sense thinks “five nines wireless” and long range
> millimeter wave.  Period.  I agree with you 100%.  But…
>
>
>
> For instance – I engineered a BridgeWave link at 10 miles for the US Air
> Force at White Sand Missile Range that was for a remote area that needed
> 1Gbps (no microwave solutions at that time could do it).  Since they were
> playing with lasers, they told me they would never be onsite if there was
> so much as a cloud in the sky.  To them, it worked “five nines”.
>
>
>
> Travis Johnson also had an 18GHz link at 35 miles that worked great for
> him for a number of years in his WISP.  That would be against the book
> too.  Proper engineering and understanding the mission requirements are
> critical to great engineering.
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
>
> ConVergence Technologies
>
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>
> dwh...@converge-tech.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 5, 2016 12:14 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance
>
>
>
> ha ha, maybe in ITU rain zone A (arabian desert) and with 60cm dishes, and
> allowing for "uptime" in nines to include QPSK modulation at very low data
> rates during rain events...
>
> There is a big difference between marketing materials and production
> reality with five nines 80 GHz.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
> I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer gigabit
> speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they didn't say
> where the link had to be located to get this distance...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/en-us/lp-safe-emailing-2270-c?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2270-c>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/en-us/lp-safe-emailing-2270-c?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2270-c>
>
>
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/en-us/lp-safe-emailing-2270-c?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2270-c>
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/en-us/lp-safe-emailing-2270-c?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2270-c>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Daniel White 
The entire time I worked for BridgeWave, TX Power was never on the datasheet.  
Only link budget.



Same with Siklu datasheets – only link budget is there.



I’m lazy now with online calculators… but  I like having all of the data 
myself.  I’ve always been bothered by not having RX sensitivity tables and TX 
power information on datasheets as well.  I feel like they are trying to hide 
something :-D



Daniel White

Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

ConVergence Technologies

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

 <mailto:dwh...@converge-tech.com> dwh...@converge-tech.com



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 7:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance



No I've never been "let down" by one - there's link budget info there, but up 
until very recently their datasheets didn't have the radio's Tx power in them. 
Whereas the older E-band manufacturers put their Tx power right out there in 
the data table for the radio alongside stuff like the power consumption. Making 
it much easier to manually calculate a predicted link with a typical 30 or 60cm 
antenna rather than using a manufacturer's online web page link estimation tool.

Maybe I'm too old school and remember when it was necessary to manually 
calculate a link because there was no such thing as a GUI HTML5 link budget 
tool on a manufacturer's website, you actually had to think about things like 
transmit power, RSL thresholds in dB for varying modulations, etc.



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Daniel White <afmu...@gmail.com 
<mailto:afmu...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I feel like Siklu let you down in some horrible way Eric.



Siklu has their link budget info right on their datasheets.  Need the extra TX 
power, go with one of the newer radios.



700 – 5dBm

1200 – 7dBm

2200 – 11dBm

2500 – 18.5dBm

5500 – 16dBm (what’s this ;-)



http://lbc.siklu.com/



Back when they only had the 1200 which has that +7dBm TX power is certainly 
limited the radio, and many people mis-deployed it under guidelines they would 
use for BridgeWave.  But that is simply poor engineering.



But also to put into context – lowest average rain rate in North America is 
typically 25 mm/hr for 99.99% operation.  That is 10dB of fade at 1km at 99.99% 
availability.  So your argument is true – that is 1km of distance your leaving 
on the table.  See the chart below I made many moons ago.







Every 60GHz/80GHz (regardless of vendor) I have engineered performs to spec.  
Engineer, engineer, engineer.



Daniel White

Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

ConVergence Technologies

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590 <tel:%2B1%20%28303%29%20746-3590>

 <mailto:dwh...@converge-tech.com> dwh...@converge-tech.com



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> ] On Behalf 
Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance



Siklu's sales and marketing department goes to a great deal of effort and fluff 
to obscure the fact that many of their 80 GHz radios are not +18 or +19 Tx 
power, but are more like +7 or +10 coming out of the radio waveguide port.



There's a reason why some of the more expensive 80 GHz products 
(Moseley/Remec/Bridgewave), SIAE, NEC etc are more costly, that's because of 
the total link budget you can achieve with +18 Tx power going into a 52dBi gain 
60cm antenna.



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com <mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > 
wrote:

Their charts on that sheet still seem fairly optimistic to me.



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net 
<mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net> > wrote:

Context !  Context ! Context !





http://www.siklu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Overbuild-tech-note-Final-.pdf



Some interesting suggestions in there !





Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <tel:305%20663%205518%20x%20232>

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <tel:%28305%29663-5518>  Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net <mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net>




  _


From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com 
<mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:22:39 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer gigabit 
speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they didn't say 
where the link had to be located to get this distance...










 
<https://www.avast.com/en-us/lp-safe-emailing-2270-c?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2270-c>

 
<https://www.avast.com/en-us/lp-safe-emailing-2270-c?utm_medium=

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Daniel White 
Ha I said I engineered it.  Never said I went onsite :-D



Daniel White

Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

ConVergence Technologies

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

 <mailto:dwh...@converge-tech.com> dwh...@converge-tech.com



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 7:28 PM
To: Animal Farm <af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance



So you come to my neighborhood and didn't let me know?   You missed some great 
food and fun...



On Oct 5, 2016 7:20 PM, "Daniel White" <afmu...@gmail.com 
<mailto:afmu...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Problem is your only thinking in the context of five nines wireless.



No one with any common sense thinks “five nines wireless” and long range 
millimeter wave.  Period.  I agree with you 100%.  But…



For instance – I engineered a BridgeWave link at 10 miles for the US Air Force 
at White Sand Missile Range that was for a remote area that needed 1Gbps (no 
microwave solutions at that time could do it).  Since they were playing with 
lasers, they told me they would never be onsite if there was so much as a cloud 
in the sky.  To them, it worked “five nines”.



Travis Johnson also had an 18GHz link at 35 miles that worked great for him for 
a number of years in his WISP.  That would be against the book too.  Proper 
engineering and understanding the mission requirements are critical to great 
engineering.



Daniel White

Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

ConVergence Technologies

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590 <tel:%2B1%20%28303%29%20746-3590>

 <mailto:dwh...@converge-tech.com> dwh...@converge-tech.com



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> ] On Behalf 
Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 12:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance



ha ha, maybe in ITU rain zone A (arabian desert) and with 60cm dishes, and 
allowing for "uptime" in nines to include QPSK modulation at very low data 
rates during rain events...

There is a big difference between marketing materials and production reality 
with five nines 80 GHz.



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com <mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > 
wrote:

I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer gigabit 
speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they didn't say 
where the link had to be located to get this distance...






 
<https://www.avast.com/en-us/lp-safe-emailing-2270-c?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2270-c>

Virus-free.  
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Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Eric Kuhnke 
No I've never been "let down" by one - there's link budget info there, but
up until very recently their datasheets didn't have the radio's Tx power in
them. Whereas the older E-band manufacturers put their Tx power right out
there in the data table for the radio alongside stuff like the power
consumption. Making it much easier to manually calculate a predicted link
with a typical 30 or 60cm antenna rather than using a manufacturer's online
web page link estimation tool.

Maybe I'm too old school and remember when it was necessary to manually
calculate a link because there was no such thing as a GUI HTML5 link budget
tool on a manufacturer's website, you actually had to think about things
like transmit power, RSL thresholds in dB for varying modulations, etc.

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Daniel White <afmu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I feel like Siklu let you down in some horrible way Eric.
>
>
>
> Siklu has their link budget info right on their datasheets.  Need the
> extra TX power, go with one of the newer radios.
>
>
>
> 700 – 5dBm
>
> 1200 – 7dBm
>
> 2200 – 11dBm
>
> 2500 – 18.5dBm
>
> 5500 – 16dBm (what’s this ;-)
>
>
>
> http://lbc.siklu.com/
>
>
>
> Back when they only had the 1200 which has that +7dBm TX power is
> certainly limited the radio, and many people mis-deployed it under
> guidelines they would use for BridgeWave.  But that is simply poor
> engineering.
>
>
>
> But also to put into context – lowest average rain rate in North America
> is typically 25 mm/hr for 99.99% operation.  That is 10dB of fade at 1km at
> 99.99% availability.  So your argument is true – that is 1km of distance
> your leaving on the table.  See the chart below I made many moons ago.
>
>
>
>
>
> Every 60GHz/80GHz (regardless of vendor) I have engineered performs to
> spec.  Engineer, engineer, engineer.
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
>
> ConVergence Technologies
>
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>
> dwh...@converge-tech.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:13 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance
>
>
>
> Siklu's sales and marketing department goes to a great deal of effort and
> fluff to obscure the fact that many of their 80 GHz radios are not +18 or
> +19 Tx power, but are more like +7 or +10 coming out of the radio waveguide
> port.
>
>
> There's a reason why some of the more expensive 80 GHz products
> (Moseley/Remec/Bridgewave), SIAE, NEC etc are more costly, that's because
> of the total link budget you can achieve with +18 Tx power going into a
> 52dBi gain 60cm antenna.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
> Their charts on that sheet still seem fairly optimistic to me.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
> wrote:
>
> Context !  Context ! Context !
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.siklu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/
> Overbuild-tech-note-Final-.pdf
>
>
>
> Some interesting suggestions in there !
>
>
>
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:22:39 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Siklu Distance
>
> I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer gigabit
> speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they didn't say
> where the link had to be located to get this distance...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/en-us/lp-safe-emailing-2270-c?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2270-c>
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/en-us/lp-safe-emailing-2270-c?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2270-c>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Daniel White 
I feel like Siklu let you down in some horrible way Eric.



Siklu has their link budget info right on their datasheets.  Need the extra TX 
power, go with one of the newer radios.



700 – 5dBm

1200 – 7dBm

2200 – 11dBm

2500 – 18.5dBm

5500 – 16dBm (what’s this ;-)



http://lbc.siklu.com/



Back when they only had the 1200 which has that +7dBm TX power is certainly 
limited the radio, and many people mis-deployed it under guidelines they would 
use for BridgeWave.  But that is simply poor engineering.



But also to put into context – lowest average rain rate in North America is 
typically 25 mm/hr for 99.99% operation.  That is 10dB of fade at 1km at 99.99% 
availability.  So your argument is true – that is 1km of distance your leaving 
on the table.  See the chart below I made many moons ago.







Every 60GHz/80GHz (regardless of vendor) I have engineered performs to spec.  
Engineer, engineer, engineer.



Daniel White

Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

ConVergence Technologies

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

 <mailto:dwh...@converge-tech.com> dwh...@converge-tech.com



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance



Siklu's sales and marketing department goes to a great deal of effort and fluff 
to obscure the fact that many of their 80 GHz radios are not +18 or +19 Tx 
power, but are more like +7 or +10 coming out of the radio waveguide port.

There's a reason why some of the more expensive 80 GHz products 
(Moseley/Remec/Bridgewave), SIAE, NEC etc are more costly, that's because of 
the total link budget you can achieve with +18 Tx power going into a 52dBi gain 
60cm antenna.



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com <mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > 
wrote:

Their charts on that sheet still seem fairly optimistic to me.



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net 
<mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net> > wrote:

Context !  Context ! Context !





http://www.siklu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Overbuild-tech-note-Final-.pdf



Some interesting suggestions in there !





Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <tel:305%20663%205518%20x%20232>

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <tel:%28305%29663-5518>  Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net <mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net>




  _


From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com 
<mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:22:39 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer gigabit 
speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they didn't say 
where the link had to be located to get this distance...









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Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Eric Kuhnke 
I agree with you 100% that different usages will have different uptime
requirements. I'm thinking of 80 GHz from the logical perspective as a
replacement for a singlemode fiber patch cable between two routers' SFP or
SFP+ interfaces speaking BGP and OSPF with each other.

In the Seattle area we have done up to 2.5 km at five nines 60cm dishes and
high powered 80 GHz radios that were specifically configured to *not*
reduce data rates below 1 Gbps. In the case of a severe rain fade event
that would take out the link, the routers did the job of moving traffic
onto backup paths or moving traffic the other direction around a ring.

You can definitely go a for longer distances if your usage scenario is
designed to tolerate things like dropping from 1Gbps to 100Mbps, or failing
over onto a parallel backup 5 GHz link, or something like that.

For ISP usage with TCP/IP and traffic flows this is inextricably linked to
the layer 3 IP routing and network traffic management design - if you have
a link that is constantly pushing 400-550Mbps in a sine wave pattern across
a 80 GHz backbone link, and it fails over onto a 150Mbps backup parallel 5
GHz link, you're going to have a bad time. If that same link's average peak
hour data flows will fit in the 150 Mbps backup link, it's a totally
different situation. It's necessary to look at simultaneous occurrences of
two possible events: If a major rain fade event happens during peak evening
hours netflix watching time, what happens to the traffic?

As Daniel said, very much dependent on usage scenario.




On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 6:20 PM, Daniel White <afmu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Problem is your only thinking in the context of five nines wireless.
>
>
>
> No one with any common sense thinks “five nines wireless” and long range
> millimeter wave.  Period.  I agree with you 100%.  But…
>
>
>
> For instance – I engineered a BridgeWave link at 10 miles for the US Air
> Force at White Sand Missile Range that was for a remote area that needed
> 1Gbps (no microwave solutions at that time could do it).  Since they were
> playing with lasers, they told me they would never be onsite if there was
> so much as a cloud in the sky.  To them, it worked “five nines”.
>
>
>
> Travis Johnson also had an 18GHz link at 35 miles that worked great for
> him for a number of years in his WISP.  That would be against the book
> too.  Proper engineering and understanding the mission requirements are
> critical to great engineering.
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
>
> ConVergence Technologies
>
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>
> dwh...@converge-tech.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 5, 2016 12:14 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance
>
>
>
> ha ha, maybe in ITU rain zone A (arabian desert) and with 60cm dishes, and
> allowing for "uptime" in nines to include QPSK modulation at very low data
> rates during rain events...
>
> There is a big difference between marketing materials and production
> reality with five nines 80 GHz.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
> I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer gigabit
> speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they didn't say
> where the link had to be located to get this distance...
>
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/en-us/lp-safe-emailing-2270-c?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2270-c>
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/en-us/lp-safe-emailing-2270-c?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2270-c>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Jaime Solorza 
So you come to my neighborhood and didn't let me know?   You missed some
great food and fun...

On Oct 5, 2016 7:20 PM, "Daniel White" <afmu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Problem is your only thinking in the context of five nines wireless.
>
>
>
> No one with any common sense thinks “five nines wireless” and long range
> millimeter wave.  Period.  I agree with you 100%.  But…
>
>
>
> For instance – I engineered a BridgeWave link at 10 miles for the US Air
> Force at White Sand Missile Range that was for a remote area that needed
> 1Gbps (no microwave solutions at that time could do it).  Since they were
> playing with lasers, they told me they would never be onsite if there was
> so much as a cloud in the sky.  To them, it worked “five nines”.
>
>
>
> Travis Johnson also had an 18GHz link at 35 miles that worked great for
> him for a number of years in his WISP.  That would be against the book
> too.  Proper engineering and understanding the mission requirements are
> critical to great engineering.
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
>
> ConVergence Technologies
>
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>
> dwh...@converge-tech.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 5, 2016 12:14 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance
>
>
>
> ha ha, maybe in ITU rain zone A (arabian desert) and with 60cm dishes, and
> allowing for "uptime" in nines to include QPSK modulation at very low data
> rates during rain events...
>
> There is a big difference between marketing materials and production
> reality with five nines 80 GHz.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
> I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer gigabit
> speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they didn't say
> where the link had to be located to get this distance...
>
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/en-us/lp-safe-emailing-2270-c?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2270-c>
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/en-us/lp-safe-emailing-2270-c?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2270-c>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Daniel White 
Problem is your only thinking in the context of five nines wireless.



No one with any common sense thinks “five nines wireless” and long range 
millimeter wave.  Period.  I agree with you 100%.  But…



For instance – I engineered a BridgeWave link at 10 miles for the US Air Force 
at White Sand Missile Range that was for a remote area that needed 1Gbps (no 
microwave solutions at that time could do it).  Since they were playing with 
lasers, they told me they would never be onsite if there was so much as a cloud 
in the sky.  To them, it worked “five nines”.



Travis Johnson also had an 18GHz link at 35 miles that worked great for him for 
a number of years in his WISP.  That would be against the book too.  Proper 
engineering and understanding the mission requirements are critical to great 
engineering.



Daniel White

Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

ConVergence Technologies

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

 <mailto:dwh...@converge-tech.com> dwh...@converge-tech.com



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 12:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance



ha ha, maybe in ITU rain zone A (arabian desert) and with 60cm dishes, and 
allowing for "uptime" in nines to include QPSK modulation at very low data 
rates during rain events...

There is a big difference between marketing materials and production reality 
with five nines 80 GHz.



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com <mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > 
wrote:

I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer gigabit 
speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they didn't say 
where the link had to be located to get this distance...





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Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Daniel White 
When I was at BridgeWave I did a few 8+ mile shots with 80GHz.  All were the 
situation outlined by this whitepaper or to otherwise close fiber rings.



Most were in the Southwest USA.



Daniel White

Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

ConVergence Technologies

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

dwh...@converge-tech.com <mailto:dwh...@converge-tech.com>



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 11:45 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance



Context !  Context ! Context !





http://www.siklu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Overbuild-tech-note-Final-.pdf



Some interesting suggestions in there !





Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 
<mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net>



  _

From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com 
<mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:22:39 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer gigabit 
speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they didn't say 
where the link had to be located to get this distance...





---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Mathew Howard 
What is the realistic distance you can do with 80ghz (in rain zone K, in my
case)? I'm wondering how it compares to 24ghz... at say, 2 miles, would it
be better or worse?

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> Siklu's sales and marketing department goes to a great deal of effort and
> fluff to obscure the fact that many of their 80 GHz radios are not +18 or
> +19 Tx power, but are more like +7 or +10 coming out of the radio waveguide
> port.
>
> There's a reason why some of the more expensive 80 GHz products
> (Moseley/Remec/Bridgewave), SIAE, NEC etc are more costly, that's because
> of the total link budget you can achieve with +18 Tx power going into a
> 52dBi gain 60cm antenna.
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> Their charts on that sheet still seem fairly optimistic to me.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Context !  Context ! Context !
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.siklu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Overbuild-te
>>> ch-note-Final-.pdf
>>>
>>> Some interesting suggestions in there !
>>>
>>>
>>> Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>>> Miami, FL 33155
>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>>>
>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *From: *"Jason McKemie" 
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:22:39 PM
>>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Siklu Distance
>>>
>>> I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer
>>> gigabit speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they
>>> didn't say where the link had to be located to get this distance...
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Ken Hohhof 
I fought the law and the law won?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgtQj8O92eI


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 2:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

I thought it was Shannons Law

On 10/5/16 10:47 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> Vote for Steve.  On his first day in office, he promises to repeal the laws 
> of physics, and end the failed policies of Marconi and Shannon.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
> Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 12:37 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance
>
> On 10/5/16 10:22, Jason McKemie wrote:
>> I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer 
>> gigabit speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess 
>> they didn't say where the link had to be located to get this distance...
>
>
> The moon?
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Robert 

I thought it was Shannons Law

On 10/5/16 10:47 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Vote for Steve.  On his first day in office, he promises to repeal the laws of 
physics, and end the failed policies of Marconi and Shannon.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 12:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

On 10/5/16 10:22, Jason McKemie wrote:

I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer
gigabit speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess
they didn't say where the link had to be located to get this distance...



The moon?

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Eric Kuhnke 
Siklu's sales and marketing department goes to a great deal of effort and
fluff to obscure the fact that many of their 80 GHz radios are not +18 or
+19 Tx power, but are more like +7 or +10 coming out of the radio waveguide
port.

There's a reason why some of the more expensive 80 GHz products
(Moseley/Remec/Bridgewave), SIAE, NEC etc are more costly, that's because
of the total link budget you can achieve with +18 Tx power going into a
52dBi gain 60cm antenna.

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Their charts on that sheet still seem fairly optimistic to me.
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz 
> wrote:
>
>> Context !  Context ! Context !
>>
>>
>> http://www.siklu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Overbuild-
>> tech-note-Final-.pdf
>>
>> Some interesting suggestions in there !
>>
>>
>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>> Miami, FL 33155
>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>>
>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Jason McKemie" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:22:39 PM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Siklu Distance
>>
>> I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer gigabit
>> speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they didn't say
>> where the link had to be located to get this distance...
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Jason McKemie 
Their charts on that sheet still seem fairly optimistic to me.

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz 
wrote:

> Context !  Context ! Context !
>
>
> http://www.siklu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/
> Overbuild-tech-note-Final-.pdf
>
> Some interesting suggestions in there !
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Jason McKemie" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:22:39 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Siklu Distance
>
> I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer gigabit
> speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they didn't say
> where the link had to be located to get this distance...
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Jaime Solorza 
2.2 miles is furthest I have done with 8O  ghz siklu

On Oct 5, 2016 12:14 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:

> ha ha, maybe in ITU rain zone A (arabian desert) and with 60cm dishes, and
> allowing for "uptime" in nines to include QPSK modulation at very low data
> rates during rain events...
>
> There is a big difference between marketing materials and production
> reality with five nines 80 GHz.
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer gigabit
>> speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they didn't say
>> where the link had to be located to get this distance...
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Eric Kuhnke 
ha ha, maybe in ITU rain zone A (arabian desert) and with 60cm dishes, and
allowing for "uptime" in nines to include QPSK modulation at very low data
rates during rain events...

There is a big difference between marketing materials and production
reality with five nines 80 GHz.

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer gigabit
> speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they didn't say
> where the link had to be located to get this distance...
>

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
I've heard 5 miles with 2' dishes.

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

> On Oct 5, 2016, at 1:53 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
> 
> If it's on the interwebs then it must be true.
> 
> - Sean 
> 
>> On Wednesday, October 5, 2016, Jason McKemie 
>>  wrote:
>> I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer gigabit 
>> speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they didn't say 
>> where the link had to be located to get this distance...

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Ken Hohhof 
Vote for Steve.  On his first day in office, he promises to repeal the laws of 
physics, and end the failed policies of Marconi and Shannon.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 12:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

On 10/5/16 10:22, Jason McKemie wrote:
> I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer 
> gigabit speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess 
> they didn't say where the link had to be located to get this distance...


The moon?

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Sean Heskett 
If it's on the interwebs then it must be true.

- Sean

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer gigabit
> speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they didn't say
> where the link had to be located to get this distance...
>

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Faisal Imtiaz 
Context ! Context ! Context ! 

http://www.siklu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Overbuild-tech-note-Final-.pdf 

Some interesting suggestions in there ! 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Jason McKemie" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:22:39 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

> I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer gigabit 
> speeds
> at 8+ miles. This seems dishonest at best. I guess they didn't say where the
> link had to be located to get this distance...

Re: [AFMUG] Siklu Distance

2016-10-05 Thread Seth Mattinen 

On 10/5/16 10:22, Jason McKemie wrote:

I received an email from Siklu saying their equipment could offer
gigabit speeds at 8+ miles.  This seems dishonest at best.  I guess they
didn't say where the link had to be located to get this distance...



The moon?