Re: [agi] META: A possible re-focusing of this list
Peter, do you think they would be less overwhelmed if they were given the option of looking at the same content through the use of a forum? I think it would be far easier to wade through... - Joseph --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] META: A possible re-focusing of this list
Derek, I am in FULL AGREEMENT. I by far prefer the forum. Frankly I get tired of scrolling through tons and tons of layered quotes, and poor formatting. (just a personal preference though). But if we did move to the forum I would like to see some LaTeX support. I think that would be a blessing! The forum provides a far superior form of organization I think. I don't like having to constantly re-re-re-re-delete uninteresting threads that keep popping up in my inbox. I don't really understand why moving to the forum presents any sort of technical or logistical issues... just personal ones from some of the participants here. --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] META: A possible re-focusing of this list
I do a lot of lurking around here, I read about 60% of what is posted and I would definitely love to see more engineering-specific content. I myself am working on a pet theory and have a substantial amount of code written... so to me, anything testable, downloadable, and provable hits a good chord with me. I too quickly get bored with the "intellectual masturbation" as someone once so eloquently put it. I don't like this hyper-abstract ping pong of inapplicable ideas, but rather the stuff I can translate into real code and results. Don't get me wrong however, there are still a lot of very useful discussions that take place here... but I would like to see a bit of a refocus (that is part of the reason why I lurk). - Joseph --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: FORA versus EMAIL LISTS ... was [agi] META: do we need a stronger "politeness code" on this list?
I really like this idea. I am a much bigger fan of forums than mailing lists. How many of our list members are severely limited by bandwidth concerns? (too much so to move to a forum platform?) --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=108809214-a0d121 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Any further comments from lurkers??? [WAS do we need a stronger "politeness code" on this list?]
Seems reasonable to me. Honestly, it should be up to those proposing their theory to explain it in full detail off-list and then link to it for discussion. But... it seems things are re-explained time after time. If they were properly explained somewhere appropriate I would think they would be more likely to be adopted as something useful. To me, the hostility isn't that big of a deal... I don't really care for it, but I tend to ignore it anyway since those participating in it usually aren't of much use anyway. --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=108809214-a0d121 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Any further comments from lurkers??? [WAS do we need a stronger "politeness code" on this list?]
"I have seen very good and productive threads on this list, but they tend to be the exception. Hence I mostly just delete the items from the list, and follow the occasional thread that looks interesting or involves people who have posted more reasonable items in the past" Yeah, that is typically what I do as well. Only a small number of threads ever make it past the 2-3 day lifespan in my inbox. I like the idea of the centralized FAQ (which I remember seeing the beginning of a while back). Not because I would point people to it, but rather I would find it useful to see others (or myself) pointed to it as I am still playing a long game of catch up. I think the FAQ should also include areas for people like Tintner to explain their theories in FULL detail to prevent any more confusion, arguments, or alienation. (Lets just put that to rest guys...) --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=108809214-a0d121 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Re: pattern definition
Mike, here's your bucket. Circle(0,50,10) Circle(0,45,10) Ring(0,45,6,8) Cylinder(0,50,45,10) Cylinder(0,45,-10,8) Disk(0,-10,8) - Joe --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=101455710-f059c4 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Re: pattern definition
Well, I figured the point of the question would be pretty clear seeing as you were claiming a logical/mathematical description of images would be inadequate, but I don't think that could be further from the truth... You could recreate a large amount of detail in an image using mathematics and it would be a great deal more compact of a description than a bitmap representation. AND, you could store the mathematical properties of the image in a DB of some sort to find similar shapes within a large body of images. When you remember scenes from years ago, it is unlikely that you remember which way the grain of the wood was facing, or how many scratches were on the left side of a corner table's handle... so why not represent them in a similar manner as vector images? Using a mathematical description would allow for a more compact, searchable, and inference-available representation. To me, keeping a little box of mathematical expressions to describe an image is a far better choice of both memory and potential processing power than to lug around a bitmap or any sort, unless you want to store the image in case you find another way to interpret it. Though humans don't remember everyday scenes through mathematical description, we do prune out the irrelevant stuff by only remembering general shapes, common textures, and orientations (unless we make it a priority to remember specific features). Mathematical equations and logical statements might not tell YOU a lot about an image, but if someone were to sit down and carefully describe an image using logical statements, equalities, and mathematical expressions, and if someone were to sit down and carefully read these... with time the image would emerge, though we humans aren't suited for this task, a machine will be more than capable, and it would be a much wiser use of resources. - Joe --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=101455710-f059c4 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Re: pattern definition
Mike, what is your stance on vector images? --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=101455710-f059c4 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Other AGI-like communities
> "You would require visual intelligence to build these nanobots." Not necessarily visual, but spatial. They are not synonymous. > "It is impossible to bootstrap perceptual grounding from a purely symbolic AGI. It does not know how to build 3D robots." Ah-ah-ah... be careful here, remember the big long discussion that transpired a few months back? If you go down far enough, pretty much anything can be represented with a symbol. The fact that the word is relative is often neglected. My entire design rests on this principle. As long as your symbolic ontology permits the representation of data that is CONSISTANT with how spatial data should be treated, you're set... Since my design hinges on this, I am obviously biased towards this line of thinking. Though I can't necessarily prove it is possible so early in my research, you surely can't prove it isn't. The KR lingo I've been working on for the past couple years is based around the ability to encapsulate spatial knowledge with everything else as a side-dish... so I especially find that statement of yours unfounded. I have yet to develop a working POC, but this particular problem was what I spent the majority of my high school days working on. > "Purely symbolic ontologies can produce unsatisfying results." Generalizations... yum. Remember, you can take symbols as far down the rabbit hole as you fancy. - Regards, Joe --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=101455710-f059c4 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] SAFAIRE project
> [susaro.com] > "This development environment goes by the name of SAFAIRE (which stands for 'Safe and Friendly AI Research Environment', and is > pronounced * sapphire*)." Interesting... Sapphire is the name of my project. --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] (video)The Future of Cognitive Computing
Yeah, I think that it is unlikely that the software (primarily commercial) sector will come up with a solution to the problem before dedicated projects will, and I also think that when people say that brain emulation is a viable option that they are ignoring the fact (after they have a way of reading the state of every neuron in the brain) that it would take a pretty sophisticated system to make sense of the raw data, and that at some point they would have to disconnect the scanner from the computer and let it simulate it's own interpretation of the data... so what I am getting at is... you practically have to have an AGI to figure out how to get that recorded data to "continue functioning" or else you have to record every possible action/reaction couple that the brain could experience in the real world which is pretty pathetic... I see brain simulation as the "cop-out" or last resort for creating AI even though I have no doubt it would eventually succeed. BTW: I'm a high school senior, I'm working on my own AGI design, and this is my first post here on the list, I've been watching the list for about two months and finally decided to contribute :) Nice to meet you all! - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?list_id=303
