Re: [agi] Google aims for AGI (purportedly).. Performance is what counts..
Most of the AI's listed today and being worked on by groups, even Google, are not in any sense True AI's, and are merely algorithms that are tweaked for performance results. Question Ansering requires no True intelligence, but employs AI and lots of different algorithms to come up with a simple answer (See Project Halo) True AI, on the other hand is a much, much deeper entity, able to reason about itself, make goals, and plans to achieve those goals.Now I have a real world question I have been haggling over recently. The definition of AI and intelligence is constantly being fought over, but I aim to pass that debate over and go strait for the heart of it. In a simple set of statements I need to have a concise goal, or description of what this True AI is being built for, what it can accomplish. I have had quite a few thoughts along this line, but am unhappy with any s ingular instance of them. Also, What general tasks should an AI be able to do, and where shoudl my efforts be best applied. I know AI is an extensive field unfort it entails Robotics, and Machine Vision, and man other fields that I cannot easily incorporate with my AI programming. Mainly I need a better goal of features to be looking at other than, "Yeah it can do everything a human can" But not limited to something as simple as, It can Play Chess, CHeckers Etc, or IT can answer any question in Chemistry.James RatcliffCharles D Hixson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It probably wouldn't do very well at such a test...no better than Delphi, say.OTOH, how well do human experts in the field do on such tests?The question might be, how is it developed from a sophisticated Delphi+fi lter system. The answer to that isn't obvious, and probably isn't singular.This approach looks like a natural one for Google to take, but you can bet that other groups are taking other approaches. E.g., already biology people are talking about modeling the methylization of DNA as a result of life experiences. This will inevitably expand in multiple ways. One way (the one I saw written up) was investigating, shades of lysenko, the heritability of life experiences. Appearantly the grandsons along the paternal line of men who started smoking before they were nine tend to be heavier than average, and the suspected cause is heritable methylization of DNA. But this will inevitably expand to tracking molecular changes throughout the body in response to experiences. Including the mind. This will probably tackled by some successor of Blue Gene (my wild guess!).Then there are the groups intentionally setting out to create a human scale AI, with creating the AI as the main goal, and what they are creating it for as secondary.Then there are the groups searching for ways to send messages without being detected (and to detect any such attempts). Some of these command an immense range of resources, and I can easily envision an awareness (inadvertently?) developing out of that arms race, though it would probably be a late entry, and as such not show up until it would result in a hard take-off.There are many endeavors in process that look to me as if they might eventually result in an AI. In many of them it would be an unplanned accident. In almost all of those scenarios it would be delayed until the result was a hard take-off. It wouldn't always be designed to have much interest in the welfare of humans. But sometimes it would. Presumably the Google attempt would result in a very slow take-off, as the original AI wouldn't be all that intelligent, but merely very fast at searching, and it would be relatively well disposed towards people. At least it would want to answer their questions. This could be one of the more hopeful scenarios. I wish it well, and hope the designers read Friendly AI.On Saturday 14 January 2006 05:00 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you think the Google AGI entity would answer if you ask "what stocks are going up tomorrow and with what level of accuracy or probability"? How about asking where and when the big earthquake will hit in California. Gauging AI's performance is going to be one of the major test of AI. Dan Goe From : Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To : agi@v2.listbox.com Subject : Re: [agi] Google aims for AGI (purportedly) Date : Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:15:20 -0500 Peter Norvig (one of Google's AI leaders) shed some light onto this at his talk at the ACC05 conference. What he alluded to there was a goal, in 5+ years from how, of having a system that can answer any natural language query whose answer exists somewhere on the Internet. E.g. if asked "Who was the first President of the US" it would answer "George Washington" because somewhere there is a web page with a sentence such as "George Washington, the first President of the United States, blah blah." This would be Step 1. He didn't talk about it, but it's obvious the next step would be something that could answer
Re: Re: [agi] Google aims for AGI (purportedly).. Performance is what counts..
Do you think the Google AGI entity would answer if you ask what stocks are going up tomorrow and with what level of accuracy or probability? How about asking where and when the big earthquake will hit in California. Gauging AI's performance is going to be one of the major test of AI. Dan Goe From : Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To : agi@v2.listbox.com Subject : Re: [agi] Google aims for AGI (purportedly) Date : Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:15:20 -0500 Peter Norvig (one of Google's AI leaders) shed some light onto this at his talk at the ACC05 conference. What he alluded to there was a goal, in 5+ years from how, of having a system that can answer any natural language query whose answer exists somewhere on the Internet. E.g. if asked Who was the first President of the US it would answer George Washington because somewhere there is a web page with a sentence such as George Washington, the first President of the United States, blah blah. This would be Step 1. He didn't talk about it, but it's obvious the next step would be something that could answer questions whose answers are not contained on any single Web page. This is not exactly a direct approach at AGI in the sense that it has no focus on self-understanding, creativity, and so forth. However, I can see how proceeding in this direction could in time create a system that could (with appropriate expenditure of additional effort) be turned into an AGI. -- Ben On 1/13/06, Martin Striz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/13/06, Eugen Leitl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.economist.com/business/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5382048 But some people think they detect an even more grandiose design. Google is already working on a massive and global computing grid. Eventually, says Mr Saffo, .they're trying to build the machine that will pass the Turing test.. The New Turing Test will be the ability to detect spam as obviously as a human mind. :) Martin --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [agi] Google aims for AGI (purportedly).. Performance is what counts..
It probably wouldn't do very well at such a test...no better than Delphi, say. OTOH, how well do human experts in the field do on such tests? The question might be, how is it developed from a sophisticated Delphi+filter system. The answer to that isn't obvious, and probably isn't singular. This approach looks like a natural one for Google to take, but you can bet that other groups are taking other approaches. E.g., already biology people are talking about modeling the methylization of DNA as a result of life experiences. This will inevitably expand in multiple ways. One way (the one I saw written up) was investigating, shades of lysenko, the heritability of life experiences. Appearantly the grandsons along the paternal line of men who started smoking before they were nine tend to be heavier than average, and the suspected cause is heritable methylization of DNA. But this will inevitably expand to tracking molecular changes throughout the body in response to experiences. Including the mind. This will probably tackled by some successor of Blue Gene (my wild guess!). Then there are the groups intentionally setting out to create a human scale AI, with creating the AI as the main goal, and what they are creating it for as secondary. Then there are the groups searching for ways to send messages without being detected (and to detect any such attempts). Some of these command an immense range of resources, and I can easily envision an awareness (inadvertently?) developing out of that arms race, though it would probably be a late entry, and as such not show up until it would result in a hard take-off. There are many endeavors in process that look to me as if they might eventually result in an AI. In many of them it would be an unplanned accident. In almost all of those scenarios it would be delayed until the result was a hard take-off. It wouldn't always be designed to have much interest in the welfare of humans. But sometimes it would. Presumably the Google attempt would result in a very slow take-off, as the original AI wouldn't be all that intelligent, but merely very fast at searching, and it would be relatively well disposed towards people. At least it would want to answer their questions. This could be one of the more hopeful scenarios. I wish it well, and hope the designers read Friendly AI. On Saturday 14 January 2006 05:00 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you think the Google AGI entity would answer if you ask what stocks are going up tomorrow and with what level of accuracy or probability? How about asking where and when the big earthquake will hit in California. Gauging AI's performance is going to be one of the major test of AI. Dan Goe From : Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To : agi@v2.listbox.com Subject : Re: [agi] Google aims for AGI (purportedly) Date : Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:15:20 -0500 Peter Norvig (one of Google's AI leaders) shed some light onto this at his talk at the ACC05 conference. What he alluded to there was a goal, in 5+ years from how, of having a system that can answer any natural language query whose answer exists somewhere on the Internet. E.g. if asked Who was the first President of the US it would answer George Washington because somewhere there is a web page with a sentence such as George Washington, the first President of the United States, blah blah. This would be Step 1. He didn't talk about it, but it's obvious the next step would be something that could answer questions whose answers are not contained on any single Web page. This is not exactly a direct approach at AGI in the sense that it has no focus on self-understanding, creativity, and so forth. However, I can see how proceeding in this direction could in time create a system that could (with appropriate expenditure of additional effort) be turned into an AGI. -- Ben On 1/13/06, Martin Striz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/13/06, Eugen Leitl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.economist.com/business/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5382048 But some people think they detect an even more grandiose design. Google is already working on a massive and global computing grid. Eventually, says Mr Saffo, .they're trying to build the machine that will pass the Turing test.. The New Turing Test will be the ability to detect spam as obviously as a human mind. :) Martin --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
