AW: [agi] constructivist issues
The limitations of Godelian completeness/incompleteness are a subset of the much stronger limitations of finite automata. If you want to build a spaceship to go to mars it is of no practical relevance to think whether it is theoretically possible to move through wormholes in the universe. I think, this comparison is adequate to evaluate the role of Gödel's theorem for AGI. - Matthias Abram Demski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote I agree with your point in this context, but I think you also mean to imply that Godel's incompleteness theorem isn't of any importance for artificial intelligence, which (probably pretty obviously) I wouldn't agree with. Godel's incompleteness theorem tells us important limitations of the logical approach to AI (and, indeed, any approach that can be implemented on normal computers). It *has* however been overused and abused throughout the years... which is one reason I jumped on Mark... --Abram --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
AW: [agi] constructivist issues
Mark Waser wrote: Can we get a listing of what you believe these limitations are and whether or not you believe that they apply to humans? I believe that humans are constrained by *all* the limits of finite automata yet are general intelligences so I'm not sure of your point. It is also my opinion that humans are constrained by *all* the limits of finite automata. But I do not agree that most humans can be scientists. If this is necessary for general intelligence then most humans are not general intelligences. It depends on your definition of general intelligence. Surely there are rules (=algorithms) to be a scientist. If not, AGI would not be possible and there would not be any scientist at all. But you cannot separate the rules (algorithm) from the evaluation whether a human or a machine is intelligent. Intelligence comes essentially from these rules and from a lot of data. The mere ability to use arbitrary rules does not imply general intelligence. Your computer has this ability but without the rules it is not intelligent at all. - Matthias --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
AW: [agi] constructivist issues
You have not convinced me that you can do anything a computer can't do. And, using language or math, you never will -- because any finite set of symbols you can utter, could also be uttered by some computational system. -- Ben G I have the sense that this argument is not air tight, because I can imagine a zero-knowledge proof that you can do something a computer can't do. Any finite set of symbols you utter *could*, of course, be utterable by some computational system, but if they are generated in response to queries that are not known in advance, it might be arbitrarily unlikely that they *would* be uttered by any particular computational system. For example, to make this concrete and airtight, I can add a time element. Say I compute offline the answers to a large number of problems that, if one were to solve them with a computation, provably could only be solved by extremely long sequential computations, each longer than any sequential computation that a computer that could possibly be built out of the matter in your brain could compute in an hour, and I present you these problems and you answer 1 of them in half an hour. At this point, I am going, I think, to be pursuaded that you are doing something that can not be captured by a Turing machine. Not that I believe, of course, that you can do anything a computer can't do. I'm just saying, the above argument is not a proof that, if you could, it could not be demonstrated. --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
