Cross-Cultural Discussion using English [WAS Re: [agi] Creativity ...]
Ben Goertzel wrote: yeah ... that's not a matter of the English language but rather a matter of the American Way ;-p Through working with many non-Americans I have noted that what Americans often intend as a playful obnoxiousness is interpreted by non-Americans more seriously... Except that, in fact, Mike is not American but British. As a result of long experience talking to Americans, I have discovered that what British people intend as routine discussion, Americans interpret as serious, intentional obnoxiousness. And then, what Americans (as you say) intend as playful obnoxiousness, non-Americans interpret more seriously. Richard Loosemore I think we had some mutual colleagues in the past who favored such a style of discourse ;-) ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Pei Wang mail.peiw...@gmail.com mailto:mail.peiw...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org mailto:b...@goertzel.org wrote: IMHO, Mike Tintner is not often rude, and is not exactly a troll because I feel he is genuinely trying to understand the deeper issues related to AGI, rather than mainly trying to stir up trouble or cause irritation Well, I guess my English is not good enough to tell the subtle difference in tones, but his comments often sound that You AGIers are so obviously wrong that I don't even bother to understand what you are saying ... Now let me tell you I don't enjoy this tone. Pei --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=123753653-47f84b Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: Cross-Cultural Discussion using English [WAS Re: [agi] Creativity ...]
And when a Chinese doesn't answer a question, it usually means No ;-) Relatedly, I am discussing with some US gov't people a potential project involving customizing an AI reasoning system to emulate the different inferential judgments of people from different cultures... ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Richard Loosemore r...@lightlink.comwrote: Ben Goertzel wrote: yeah ... that's not a matter of the English language but rather a matter of the American Way ;-p Through working with many non-Americans I have noted that what Americans often intend as a playful obnoxiousness is interpreted by non-Americans more seriously... Except that, in fact, Mike is not American but British. As a result of long experience talking to Americans, I have discovered that what British people intend as routine discussion, Americans interpret as serious, intentional obnoxiousness. And then, what Americans (as you say) intend as playful obnoxiousness, non-Americans interpret more seriously. Richard Loosemore I think we had some mutual colleagues in the past who favored such a style of discourse ;-) ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Pei Wang mail.peiw...@gmail.commailto: mail.peiw...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org mailto:b...@goertzel.org wrote: IMHO, Mike Tintner is not often rude, and is not exactly a troll because I feel he is genuinely trying to understand the deeper issues related to AGI, rather than mainly trying to stir up trouble or cause irritation Well, I guess my English is not good enough to tell the subtle difference in tones, but his comments often sound that You AGIers are so obviously wrong that I don't even bother to understand what you are saying ... Now let me tell you I don't enjoy this tone. Pei --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...@goertzel.org I intend to live forever, or die trying. -- Groucho Marx --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=123753653-47f84b Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: Cross-Cultural Discussion using English [WAS Re: [agi] Creativity ...]
Richard and Ben, If you think I, as a Chinese, have overreacted to Mike Tintner's writing style, and this is just a culture difference, please let me know. In that case I'll try my best to learn his way of communication, at least when talking to British and American people --- who knows, it may even improve my marketing ability. ;-) Pei On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote: And when a Chinese doesn't answer a question, it usually means No ;-) Relatedly, I am discussing with some US gov't people a potential project involving customizing an AI reasoning system to emulate the different inferential judgments of people from different cultures... ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Richard Loosemore r...@lightlink.com wrote: Ben Goertzel wrote: yeah ... that's not a matter of the English language but rather a matter of the American Way ;-p Through working with many non-Americans I have noted that what Americans often intend as a playful obnoxiousness is interpreted by non-Americans more seriously... Except that, in fact, Mike is not American but British. As a result of long experience talking to Americans, I have discovered that what British people intend as routine discussion, Americans interpret as serious, intentional obnoxiousness. And then, what Americans (as you say) intend as playful obnoxiousness, non-Americans interpret more seriously. Richard Loosemore I think we had some mutual colleagues in the past who favored such a style of discourse ;-) ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Pei Wang mail.peiw...@gmail.com mailto:mail.peiw...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org mailto:b...@goertzel.org wrote: IMHO, Mike Tintner is not often rude, and is not exactly a troll because I feel he is genuinely trying to understand the deeper issues related to AGI, rather than mainly trying to stir up trouble or cause irritation Well, I guess my English is not good enough to tell the subtle difference in tones, but his comments often sound that You AGIers are so obviously wrong that I don't even bother to understand what you are saying ... Now let me tell you I don't enjoy this tone. Pei --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...@goertzel.org I intend to live forever, or die trying. -- Groucho Marx agi | Archives | Modify Your Subscription --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=123753653-47f84b Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: Cross-Cultural Discussion using English [WAS Re: [agi] Creativity ...]
Well, I think you might have overreacted to his writing style for cultural reasons However, I also think that -- to be Americanly blunt -- you're very unlikely to learn anything from conversing with Mike, nor to make much positive impact on his own understanding by conversing with him. So in this case, I reckon the cultural factors are kind of irrelevant ;-) ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:47 PM, Pei Wang mail.peiw...@gmail.com wrote: Richard and Ben, If you think I, as a Chinese, have overreacted to Mike Tintner's writing style, and this is just a culture difference, please let me know. In that case I'll try my best to learn his way of communication, at least when talking to British and American people --- who knows, it may even improve my marketing ability. ;-) Pei On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote: And when a Chinese doesn't answer a question, it usually means No ;-) Relatedly, I am discussing with some US gov't people a potential project involving customizing an AI reasoning system to emulate the different inferential judgments of people from different cultures... ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Richard Loosemore r...@lightlink.com wrote: Ben Goertzel wrote: yeah ... that's not a matter of the English language but rather a matter of the American Way ;-p Through working with many non-Americans I have noted that what Americans often intend as a playful obnoxiousness is interpreted by non-Americans more seriously... Except that, in fact, Mike is not American but British. As a result of long experience talking to Americans, I have discovered that what British people intend as routine discussion, Americans interpret as serious, intentional obnoxiousness. And then, what Americans (as you say) intend as playful obnoxiousness, non-Americans interpret more seriously. Richard Loosemore I think we had some mutual colleagues in the past who favored such a style of discourse ;-) ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Pei Wang mail.peiw...@gmail.com mailto:mail.peiw...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org mailto:b...@goertzel.org wrote: IMHO, Mike Tintner is not often rude, and is not exactly a troll because I feel he is genuinely trying to understand the deeper issues related to AGI, rather than mainly trying to stir up trouble or cause irritation Well, I guess my English is not good enough to tell the subtle difference in tones, but his comments often sound that You AGIers are so obviously wrong that I don't even bother to understand what you are saying ... Now let me tell you I don't enjoy this tone. Pei --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...@goertzel.org I intend to live forever, or die trying. -- Groucho Marx agi | Archives | Modify Your Subscription --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...@goertzel.org I intend to live forever, or die trying. -- Groucho Marx --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=123753653-47f84b Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: Cross-Cultural Discussion using English [WAS Re: [agi] Creativity ...]
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:51 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote: Well, I think you might have overreacted to his writing style for cultural reasons However, I also think that -- to be Americanly blunt -- you're very unlikely to learn anything from conversing with Mike, On AGI-related topics, I meant. He may well have other areas of expertise where we could learn a lot from him, but they are not the focus of this list. nor to make much positive impact on his own understanding by conversing with him. So in this case, I reckon the cultural factors are kind of irrelevant ;-) ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:47 PM, Pei Wang mail.peiw...@gmail.com wrote: Richard and Ben, If you think I, as a Chinese, have overreacted to Mike Tintner's writing style, and this is just a culture difference, please let me know. In that case I'll try my best to learn his way of communication, at least when talking to British and American people --- who knows, it may even improve my marketing ability. ;-) Pei On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote: And when a Chinese doesn't answer a question, it usually means No ;-) Relatedly, I am discussing with some US gov't people a potential project involving customizing an AI reasoning system to emulate the different inferential judgments of people from different cultures... ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Richard Loosemore r...@lightlink.com wrote: Ben Goertzel wrote: yeah ... that's not a matter of the English language but rather a matter of the American Way ;-p Through working with many non-Americans I have noted that what Americans often intend as a playful obnoxiousness is interpreted by non-Americans more seriously... Except that, in fact, Mike is not American but British. As a result of long experience talking to Americans, I have discovered that what British people intend as routine discussion, Americans interpret as serious, intentional obnoxiousness. And then, what Americans (as you say) intend as playful obnoxiousness, non-Americans interpret more seriously. Richard Loosemore I think we had some mutual colleagues in the past who favored such a style of discourse ;-) ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Pei Wang mail.peiw...@gmail.com mailto:mail.peiw...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org mailto:b...@goertzel.org wrote: IMHO, Mike Tintner is not often rude, and is not exactly a troll because I feel he is genuinely trying to understand the deeper issues related to AGI, rather than mainly trying to stir up trouble or cause irritation Well, I guess my English is not good enough to tell the subtle difference in tones, but his comments often sound that You AGIers are so obviously wrong that I don't even bother to understand what you are saying ... Now let me tell you I don't enjoy this tone. Pei --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...@goertzel.org I intend to live forever, or die trying. -- Groucho Marx agi | Archives | Modify Your Subscription --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...@goertzel.org I intend to live forever, or die trying. -- Groucho Marx -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...@goertzel.org I intend to live forever, or die trying. -- Groucho Marx --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=123753653-47f84b Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: Cross-Cultural Discussion using English [WAS Re: [agi] Creativity ...]
Pei Wang wrote: Richard and Ben, If you think I, as a Chinese, have overreacted to Mike Tintner's writing style, and this is just a culture difference, please let me know. In that case I'll try my best to learn his way of communication, at least when talking to British and American people --- who knows, it may even improve my marketing ability. ;-) Pei No, no: I seriously do not think you have overreacted at all. I meant my comment half in jest: Mike has some unique abilities to rub people up the wrong way on this list, quite separate from the fact that he is British. The latter is an exacerbating factor, is all. Richard Loosemore On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org wrote: And when a Chinese doesn't answer a question, it usually means No ;-) Relatedly, I am discussing with some US gov't people a potential project involving customizing an AI reasoning system to emulate the different inferential judgments of people from different cultures... ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Richard Loosemore r...@lightlink.com wrote: Ben Goertzel wrote: yeah ... that's not a matter of the English language but rather a matter of the American Way ;-p Through working with many non-Americans I have noted that what Americans often intend as a playful obnoxiousness is interpreted by non-Americans more seriously... Except that, in fact, Mike is not American but British. As a result of long experience talking to Americans, I have discovered that what British people intend as routine discussion, Americans interpret as serious, intentional obnoxiousness. And then, what Americans (as you say) intend as playful obnoxiousness, non-Americans interpret more seriously. Richard Loosemore I think we had some mutual colleagues in the past who favored such a style of discourse ;-) ben On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Pei Wang mail.peiw...@gmail.com mailto:mail.peiw...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Ben Goertzel b...@goertzel.org mailto:b...@goertzel.org wrote: IMHO, Mike Tintner is not often rude, and is not exactly a troll because I feel he is genuinely trying to understand the deeper issues related to AGI, rather than mainly trying to stir up trouble or cause irritation Well, I guess my English is not good enough to tell the subtle difference in tones, but his comments often sound that You AGIers are so obviously wrong that I don't even bother to understand what you are saying ... Now let me tell you I don't enjoy this tone. Pei --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI b...@goertzel.org I intend to live forever, or die trying. -- Groucho Marx agi | Archives | Modify Your Subscription --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com --- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=123753653-47f84b Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
