DIS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Emergency Distribution of Proposal 7568
On 01/08/2013 1:34 PM, omd wrote: * I also attempt to distribute this with Chamber of each of Green, Red, and Purple (in that case, the proposal is separately Ordinary). What's that about? Nice colour scheme though.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Emergency Distribution of Proposal 7568
On 01/08/2013 1:42 PM, Sean Hunt wrote: 7568 30 O omd, etc. Agora pulls a B + some ratifications Fool, can you please distribute this in your purported gamestate as well and adopt it? -scshunt Duhhh of course. I'll do it right away without looking closely. I mean it DOES say EMEREGENCY... 8*b 8*b 8*b
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: publicity
On 01/08/2013 1:48 PM, Geoffrey Spear wrote: it's a delightfully confusing time You're welcome! :)
Re: DIS: Gratuitous arguments for logicians
On 01/08/2013 10:39 PM, Tanner Swett wrote: On Jul 29, 2013, at 8:13 PM, Fool wrote: You're right, intuitionistic logic is too weird. Heck no. Classical logic is weird. But classical logic is the system obeyed by truth-bearing statements! —Of course, who cares about truth-bearing statements, anyway Machiavelli It's common enough to hear that classical logic is about truth while intuitionistic is about provability or something like that, but I don't buy it. Keeping it on topic: We don't _assume_ the law of the excluded middle, but many special cases of it are _provable_ constructively. E.g. by induction, any two natural numbers are either equal or not equal. So in the strictly finite world, intuitionistic reasoning collapses to classical anyway. I don't think there are any essential infinities on Agora, so I doubt the distinction will matter here in the end. So most likely, if omd or others wish to appeal to intuitionistic logic to escape some sort of classical conclusion, there's going to be a way to get to that conclusion anyway.
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Emergency Distribution of Proposal 7568
On 2 August 2013 11:22, Fool fool1...@gmail.com wrote: On 01/08/2013 1:34 PM, omd wrote: * I also attempt to distribute this with Chamber of each of Green, Red, and Purple (in that case, the proposal is separately Ordinary). What's that about? Nice colour scheme though. Thanks, I chose it.
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Emergency Distribution of Proposal 7568
On 01/08/2013 5:03 PM, James Beirne wrote: FOR*1 I think you need to retract your previous vote first.
Re: DIS: Gratuitous arguments for logicians
On 2 August 2013 11:38, Fool fool1...@gmail.com wrote: It's common enough to hear that classical logic is about truth while intuitionistic is about provability or something like that, but I don't buy it. Classic logic is about irrefutability.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Emergency Distribution of Proposal 7568
On 2 August 2013 11:26, Fool fool1...@gmail.com wrote: Duhhh of course. I'll do it right away without looking closely. I mean it DOES say EMEREGENCY... 8*b 8*b 8*b *sigh*
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Emergency Distribution of Proposal 7568
7568 30 O omd, etc. Agora pulls a B + some ratifications FOR -- OscarMeyr
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Emergency Distribution of Proposal 7568
On 2 August 2013 13:46, Benjamin Schultz ben.dov.schu...@gmail.com wrote: FOR NtttPF (and please vote as FOR*1 for unambiguity).
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Stuff
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 7:59 PM, Ørjan Johansen oer...@nvg.ntnu.no wrote: On Thu, 1 Aug 2013, Charles Walker wrote: Davy I may, however, struggle with the requirement to be generally capable of communicating via email. I dunno, I hear cats are quite proficient at using keyboards. Greetings, Ørjan. I think you mean sleeping on keyboards. -- OscarMeyr
Re: DIS: Gratuitous arguments for logicians
On Aug 2, 2013, at 6:38 AM, Fool wrote: On 01/08/2013 10:39 PM, Tanner Swett wrote: But classical logic is the system obeyed by truth-bearing statements! —Of course, who cares about truth-bearing statements, anyway Machiavelli It's common enough to hear that classical logic is about truth while intuitionistic is about provability or something like that, but I don't buy it. Yeah, clearly everything provable in intuitionistic logic is true (isn't it?), whereas not everything provable in classical logic is provable in intuitionistic logic. It does make sense to me to say that intuitionistic logic is about demonstrability. If you prove that assuming the negation of a statement leads to a contradiction, you haven't really demonstrated the truth of that statement, but you have demonstrated the statement's truth if you can give an actual example. —Machiavelli
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Stuff
On Fri, 2 Aug 2013, Benjamin Schultz wrote: On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 7:59 PM, Ørjan Johansen oer...@nvg.ntnu.no wrote: I dunno, I hear cats are quite proficient at using keyboards. Greetings, Ørjan. I think you mean sleeping on keyboards. I fail to see how sleeping on is not using. Greetings, Ørjan.
DIS: Ambassador's Survey - Your Chance To Win Great Prizes!
The Ambassador-at-Large intends to unofficially deputise for the Envoy to complete that office's duties, which are to advertise Agora in appropriate non-Agoran public fora. But first, I thought I'd gather some opinions and ask questions about related topics. As part of eir continual stakeholder experience improvement programme, you are invited to take part in the following 10 minute survey. It's your chance to win one of three great prizes! One lucky winner will be selected from the responses to win an amazing Y50 cash prize! And two runners-up will receive Y20 each. So take the opportunity to answer the following questions. Come on, it's not like you're a player any more, so what better have you got to do? - What is your general view of advertising Agora? - Where is it appropriate to advertise Agora? What kind of fora? Any specific sites? - What kind of things would you say in a message to possible recruits? - Why is Agora so terrible at gaining new players? And why is Agora so terrible at retaining players? - What can Agora do to improve its record at both of the above? - Would you support defining an FAQ document in the rules, to be tracked by some officer, which would be sent to each new player? - What about a newbie friendly ruleset format, with the rules defining gameplay at the start and abstract definitions further back? (Take a look at this http://agora.qoid.us/alr.txt) - What would you think of a newbie tutorial system? E.g. The Promotor helps each new player write a proposal, the Assessor encourages them to vote, etc. within the first month of them registering. - What about a mentor system, where each newbie is assigned an Elder to show them the ropes? The mentor could get an economic bonus for each month the newbie is still an active player. - Do you have any more suggestions or comments about recruiting and retaining new players? Here ends the survey. Thank you for your time! The results of the prize draw will be announced two weeks from today.
Re: DIS: Ambassador's Survey - Your Chance To Win Great Prizes!
as far as advertising for me goes my best methods are on the radio since i am an internet radio DJ. as far as getting and retaining players the ruleset has atleast for me proven to be rather wordy and the concept is a bit confusing the best way is to present a straight forward ruleset for those who don't like reading through fluff and jargon same rules just without the fluff On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Charles Walker charles.w.wal...@gmail.comwrote: The Ambassador-at-Large intends to unofficially deputise for the Envoy to complete that office's duties, which are to advertise Agora in appropriate non-Agoran public fora. But first, I thought I'd gather some opinions and ask questions about related topics. As part of eir continual stakeholder experience improvement programme, you are invited to take part in the following 10 minute survey. It's your chance to win one of three great prizes! One lucky winner will be selected from the responses to win an amazing Y50 cash prize! And two runners-up will receive Y20 each. So take the opportunity to answer the following questions. Come on, it's not like you're a player any more, so what better have you got to do? - What is your general view of advertising Agora? - Where is it appropriate to advertise Agora? What kind of fora? Any specific sites? - What kind of things would you say in a message to possible recruits? - Why is Agora so terrible at gaining new players? And why is Agora so terrible at retaining players? - What can Agora do to improve its record at both of the above? - Would you support defining an FAQ document in the rules, to be tracked by some officer, which would be sent to each new player? - What about a newbie friendly ruleset format, with the rules defining gameplay at the start and abstract definitions further back? (Take a look at this http://agora.qoid.us/alr.txt) - What would you think of a newbie tutorial system? E.g. The Promotor helps each new player write a proposal, the Assessor encourages them to vote, etc. within the first month of them registering. - What about a mentor system, where each newbie is assigned an Elder to show them the ropes? The mentor could get an economic bonus for each month the newbie is still an active player. - Do you have any more suggestions or comments about recruiting and retaining new players? Here ends the survey. Thank you for your time! The results of the prize draw will be announced two weeks from today.
DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement in R. v. everyone but Fool, CFJ 3381
I appeal my own case on the grounds that I HAVE NO FREAKING IDEA WHAT'S GOING ON despite me being an elder On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: On Fri, 2013-08-02 at 21:25 -0400, Fool wrote: HER FELINE MAJESTY DAVY I versus ais523, arkestra, ehird, FKA441344, FSX, G., Henri, Ienpw_III, Kolja, Lindar, Machiavelli, Max Schutz, omd, OscarMeyr, Pavitra, Roujo, scshunt, Sgeo, Tomas, Turiski, Walker, Wes, woggle, Wooble, and Yally. I intend, with 2 support, to appeal this judgement using the mechanism in rule 911. Because this is appears to be a criminal case from the formatting, I appeal this judgement using the mechanism in rule 2277. -- ais523
DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement in R. v. everyone but Fool, CFJ 3381
On Sat, 2013-08-03 at 02:43 +0100, Elliott Hird wrote: On 3 August 2013 02:32, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: I intend, with 2 support, to appeal this judgement using the mechanism in rule 911. I support. (For anyone who hasn't noticed yet: this is useful in the (quite plausible) gamestate where Fool's dictatorship failed, but e correctly became CotC due to damage caused to the gamestate via the ratification bug. We shouldn't be leaving outright lies in the CFJ record.) -- ais523
DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement in R. v. everyone but Fool, CFJ 3381
if this gets my name off that list of guilty then i support it too this is insane On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Elliott Hird penguinoftheg...@googlemail.com wrote: On 3 August 2013 02:32, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: I intend, with 2 support, to appeal this judgement using the mechanism in rule 911. I support.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement in R. v. everyone but Fool, CFJ 3381
On Fri, 2013-08-02 at 21:54 -0400, Max Schutz wrote: On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Elliott Hird penguinoftheg...@googlemail.com wrote: On 3 August 2013 02:32, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: I intend, with 2 support, to appeal this judgement using the mechanism in rule 911. I support. if this gets my name off that list of guilty then i support it too this is insane I do so. -- ais523
DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement in R. v. everyone but Fool, CFJ 3381
On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 9:25 PM, Fool fool1...@gmail.com wrote: (a) provide an alternate consistent explanation that blocks the Action and show that (b) it also fits the other logical questions that arise in Agora and (c) it actually does follow from the rules (including R217 of course) Although it appears to be more difficult than we had previously assumed to formalize the logic of the rules, there are several possibilities that have been posited in the last few days - some do not work, but some do. The issue is more of finding an explanation that fits with Agora's custom than finding one at all; but even if no explanation had been suggested, there are several reasons that this would not imply your scam succeeded. The most fundamental one is, again, that although Agora generally has a positive attitude toward logical hand grenades and formalisms, some three thousand CFJs have all operated with a *primarily* legal rather than mathematical attitude toward the rules, and no sane lawyer nor arbiter of a 'normal game' would ever accept such an argument, nor would believe that failing to do so makes the rules inconsistent. The principle that Agora should operate as we have attempted to formalize it should usually hold, yet in conflict with the principle that Agora should operate sanely (common sense, among other things), it defers. (Compare Agora to other nomics, such as the old B, which would be much more likely to accept your logic.) The defense have obviously had enough time to come up with all sorts of attempts based on other technicalities, which have failed, possibly with the exception of the pending accusation that I have not treated Agora right good forever. What they have not done is even attempted step (a) above. Nor has anyone even responded to the non-logical side of the argument. Although it is unlikely that Rule 101 truly affects anything, attempting to take over the game without any indication of plans to restore it is fairly[1] rude, as the danger is that (whether legally as per your argument or simply because confusion as to the correct interpretation causes an exodus of players) you will bring an abrupt halt to a game that has been played more or less continuously for 20 years; this seems unlikely at the moment, but the attempt to do so still rankles, and certainly affects Rule 217's notion of the best interests of hte game. It is also worth noting that an attempt to use a dictatorship to break the judicial process is unprecedented in my memory, and also considered poor form; again, not the end of the world if Roujo gets around to assigning the CFJs (please do) and that universe's judicial system rules that your scam was unsuccessful[2], after which a consensus should eventually be reached, but since claiming unilateral judgement, especially in this format, does not particularly /aid/ your chances of being accepted, but merely sows discord, I consider it unfortunate that you have elected to do so. Note that in Lindrum's famous scam, the judgement was required for the scam to work; not so here. (Lindrum, for eir part, made clear from the start that e intended to continue Nomic World as a nomic [albeit in a different form], and did not attempt to kick out any players.) Now. It does occur to me that a lecture about good form in an online email game (especially one whose recipient is attempting to claim said game in the name of a cat) can often reasonably be interpreted as the lecturer taking the status quo too seriously, and I have received at least one such lecture in the recent past. On the other hand, in my perception the threatened harm in that case was considerably less, although at least some players probably misunderstood... well, while I do not wish to overly second-guess your motivations, I think you have objectively acted more aggressively, and that this response is thus warranted. If, looking back on this, we should think otherwise, well, where would the fun be without an antagonist? [1] In the large scale of things, perhaps not very much - indeed, I suppose that, nobody having (purportedly) deregistered yet, for whatever reasons, the negative ramifications will add up to less than in some past scams; but on the face of it, unprecedentedly? [2] I don't want to think about what happens if it rules that it was successful. ;p
