Re: DIS: Proto: Crystals

[Aris Merchant]

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 9:56 AM Reuben Staley 
wrote:

> Comments inline
>
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 18:47 Aris Merchant <
> thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Title: Crystals
> > Adoption index: 2.0
> > Author: Aris
> > Co-author(s):
> >
> >
> > [I'm changing it so that players CAN upgrade facilities they don't own,
> > let me know if that's a problem.]
> >
>
> Not necessarily a problem, but I struggle to see an application for such
> abilities outside of maybe bribery or something


Mostly so people can upgrade contract land units.

Amend Rule 2562, Facility Ranks, to read as follows:
> >
> >   Rank is a secured facility switch tracked by the Cartographor
> defaulting
> >   to 1, with possible values of all positive integers.
> >
> >   A player CAN increase the rank of a facility that is at eir location by
> >   exactly 1 by announcement by paying any upgrade costs of the facility
> for
> >   that specific rank, provided that e has not already done so twice for
> > that
> >   facility in the same Agoran week. A player CAN increase the rank of a
> >   facility by N by announcement by destroying N crystals in eir
> possession.
> >
>
> To clarify, you can increase the rank of any facility anywhere with
> crystals, but you can only increase the rank of facilities without crystals
> on that LU? That's what it seems like. If this is not the intent, revise
> the proposal. If this is the intent, it could be phrased more obviously.


Yep, that's what I'm going for. I'll make it more explicit.

>
> Enact a new rule, entitled "Crystals" (Power = 2.0), with the following
> text
> >
> >   Crystals, are a currency, with the Treasuror as their recordkeepor.
> >   They may be owned by Agora, persons, and contracts. The following units
> >   are defined:
> >
> >   - Bronze Crystal, 1 crystal
> >   - Silver Crystal, 2 crystals
> >   - Gold Crystal, 4 crystals
> >   - Platinum Crystal, 8 crystals
> >
>
> I'm not sold on these names since they really don't sound very crystalline.
> Perhaps types of gems like "quartz, ruby, diamond, tanzanite"? That's just
> my opinion though.


I thought of that, but those don't form as clear a hierarchy. I'm not set
on this though,

>
> Amend the rule defining welcome packages by adding as a new item,
> > appropriately
> > numbered, at the end of the list "1 Bronze Crystal".
> >
>
> I'm fine with this as long as those with welcome packages are also given
> the same gift.


No, that would flood the market. The idea is that people get them one at a
time when the register, not all at once right now.

>
> Amend Rule 2483, Economics, by changing the text "The following currencies
> > are
> > defined, and are tracked by the Treasuror." to read "The following
> > currencies,
> > known collectively as economic currencies, are defined, and are tracked
> by
> > the
> > Treasuror."
> > Enact a new rule, "Crystal Rewards" (Power = 2.0), with the following
> text:
> >
> >   When a person wins the game, if e has not won in the preceding month, 1
> > Bronze
> >   Crystal is created in eir possession.
> >
>
> I am not sure how much I approve of this. You said you wanted the price of
> crystals to be crazy high. I feel like this kinda devalues them.


Consider how rarely people actually win. I think the last one was in
December?

>
>   A player CAN, by announcement, destroy a crystal in eir possession
> >   to create 5 economic currencies of specified, possibly varying type.
> >
>
> So you get to choose? I'm actually a fan of that. It's like a last-ditch
> effort if you really are scrapped for resources but happen to have a
> crystal you haven't used.
>

Yeah. I might actually go up to 10 in the next version, but it shouldn't be
enough that people do it on a regular basis.

>
> [I expect the above to be expanded in future.]
> >
> > Enact a new rule, entitled "Crystal Auctions" (Power = 2.0), with the
> > following
> > text:
> >
> >   At the beginning of each month, the Treasuror CAN and SHALL initiate an
> >   auction. For this auction, the announcer is the Treasuror, the
> > auctioneer is
> >   Agora, the minimum bid is 1, and there is one lot, chosen as follows:
> >
>
> Interesting idea. I like the idea of having a schedule.


The idea is that rarity would drive up bidding even further when something
higher than a silver up for auction.

-Aris

Re: DIS: Proto: Crystals

[Reuben Staley]

Comments inline

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 18:47 Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Title: Crystals
> Adoption index: 2.0
> Author: Aris
> Co-author(s):
>
>
> [I'm changing it so that players CAN upgrade facilities they don't own,
> let me know if that's a problem.]
>

Not necessarily a problem, but I struggle to see an application for such
abilities outside of maybe bribery or something.

Amend Rule 2562, Facility Ranks, to read as follows:
>
>   Rank is a secured facility switch tracked by the Cartographor defaulting
>   to 1, with possible values of all positive integers.
>
>   A player CAN increase the rank of a facility that is at eir location by
>   exactly 1 by announcement by paying any upgrade costs of the facility for
>   that specific rank, provided that e has not already done so twice for
> that
>   facility in the same Agoran week. A player CAN increase the rank of a
>   facility by N by announcement by destroying N crystals in eir possession.
>

To clarify, you can increase the rank of any facility anywhere with
crystals, but you can only increase the rank of facilities without crystals
on that LU? That's what it seems like. If this is not the intent, revise
the proposal. If this is the intent, it could be phrased more obviously.

Enact a new rule, entitled "Crystals" (Power = 2.0), with the following text
>
>   Crystals, are a currency, with the Treasuror as their recordkeepor.
>   They may be owned by Agora, persons, and contracts. The following units
>   are defined:
>
>   - Bronze Crystal, 1 crystal
>   - Silver Crystal, 2 crystals
>   - Gold Crystal, 4 crystals
>   - Platinum Crystal, 8 crystals
>

I'm not sold on these names since they really don't sound very crystalline.
Perhaps types of gems like "quartz, ruby, diamond, tanzanite"? That's just
my opinion though.

Amend the rule defining welcome packages by adding as a new item,
> appropriately
> numbered, at the end of the list "1 Bronze Crystal".
>

I'm fine with this as long as those with welcome packages are also given
the same gift.

Amend Rule 2483, Economics, by changing the text "The following currencies
> are
> defined, and are tracked by the Treasuror." to read "The following
> currencies,
> known collectively as economic currencies, are defined, and are tracked by
> the
> Treasuror."
> Enact a new rule, "Crystal Rewards" (Power = 2.0), with the following text:
>
>   When a person wins the game, if e has not won in the preceding month, 1
> Bronze
>   Crystal is created in eir possession.
>

I am not sure how much I approve of this. You said you wanted the price of
crystals to be crazy high. I feel like this kinda devalues them.

  A player CAN, by announcement, destroy a crystal in eir possession
>   to create 5 economic currencies of specified, possibly varying type.
>

So you get to choose? I'm actually a fan of that. It's like a last-ditch
effort if you really are scrapped for resources but happen to have a
crystal you haven't used.

[I expect the above to be expanded in future.]
>
> Enact a new rule, entitled "Crystal Auctions" (Power = 2.0), with the
> following
> text:
>
>   At the beginning of each month, the Treasuror CAN and SHALL initiate an
>   auction. For this auction, the announcer is the Treasuror, the
> auctioneer is
>   Agora, the minimum bid is 1, and there is one lot, chosen as follows:
>

Interesting idea. I like the idea of having a schedule.

- January: Gold Crystal
> - February: Silver Crystal
> - March: Silver Crystal
> - April: Gold Crystal
> - May: Silver Crystal
> - June: Silver Crystal
> - July: Platinum Crystal
> - August: Silver Crystal
> - September: Silver Crystal
> - October: Gold Crystal
> - November: Silver Crystal
> - December: Silver Crystal
>
>   When the winner of the auction pays eir bid, the auctioned crystal is
>   immediately created in eir possession.
>

Re: DIS: Proto: Crystals

[Aris Merchant]

That wasn't really what I meant. Winning is it's own incentive, along with
Champion and maybe the chance of getting Speaker. This is more like an
extra reward. It's just a small bonus that acknowledges the victory.

The basic idea for the new system is driven by things I've noticed in video
games. Crystals are essentially a premium currency. They provide a path
through the annoyance and limitations ordinarily associated with gameplay.
My next version will allow a player to expend one to teleport, for
instance. Unlike land and the economic currencies, which are essential,
these are optional and correspondingly more limited. My hope is that the
limited supply will drive prices to ridiculous levels, which should
hopefully provide an outlet for wealth. The award for new players is
designed to give them some starting capital, which they can either save or
trade away.

-Aris



On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 6:13 PM, ATMunn  wrote:
> So winning the game is not as valuable as winning an auction?
>
>
> On 4/12/2018 8:46 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:
>>
>> Title: Crystals
>> Adoption index: 2.0
>> Author: Aris
>> Co-author(s):
>>
>>
>> [I'm changing it so that players CAN upgrade facilities they don't own,
>> let me know if that's a problem.]
>>
>> Amend Rule 2562, Facility Ranks, to read as follows:
>>
>>Rank is a secured facility switch tracked by the Cartographor
>> defaulting
>>to 1, with possible values of all positive integers.
>>
>>A player CAN increase the rank of a facility that is at eir location
by
>>exactly 1 by announcement by paying any upgrade costs of the facility
>> for
>>that specific rank, provided that e has not already done so twice for
>> that
>>facility in the same Agoran week. A player CAN increase the rank of a
>>facility by N by announcement by destroying N crystals in eir
>> possession.
>>
>> Enact a new rule, entitled "Crystals" (Power = 2.0), with the following
>> text
>>
>>Crystals, are a currency, with the Treasuror as their recordkeepor.
>>They may be owned by Agora, persons, and contracts. The following
units
>>are defined:
>>
>>- Bronze Crystal, 1 crystal
>>- Silver Crystal, 2 crystals
>>- Gold Crystal, 4 crystals
>>- Platinum Crystal, 8 crystals
>>
>> Amend the rule defining welcome packages by adding as a new item,
>> appropriately
>> numbered, at the end of the list "1 Bronze Crystal".
>>
>> Amend Rule 2483, Economics, by changing the text "The following
currencies
>> are
>> defined, and are tracked by the Treasuror." to read "The following
>> currencies,
>> known collectively as economic currencies, are defined, and are tracked
by
>> the
>> Treasuror."
>> Enact a new rule, "Crystal Rewards" (Power = 2.0), with the following
>> text:
>>
>>When a person wins the game, if e has not won in the preceding month,
1
>> Bronze
>>Crystal is created in eir possession.
>>
>>A player CAN, by announcement, destroy a crystal in eir possession
>>to create 5 economic currencies of specified, possibly varying type.
>>
>> [I expect the above to be expanded in future.]
>>
>> Enact a new rule, entitled "Crystal Auctions" (Power = 2.0), with the
>> following
>> text:
>>
>>At the beginning of each month, the Treasuror CAN and SHALL initiate
an
>>auction. For this auction, the announcer is the Treasuror, the
>> auctioneer is
>>Agora, the minimum bid is 1, and there is one lot, chosen as follows:
>>
>>  - January: Gold Crystal
>>  - February: Silver Crystal
>>  - March: Silver Crystal
>>  - April: Gold Crystal
>>  - May: Silver Crystal
>>  - June: Silver Crystal
>>  - July: Platinum Crystal
>>  - August: Silver Crystal
>>  - September: Silver Crystal
>>  - October: Gold Crystal
>>  - November: Silver Crystal
>>  - December: Silver Crystal
>>
>>When the winner of the auction pays eir bid, the auctioned crystal is
>>immediately created in eir possession.
>>
>

Re: DIS: Proto: Crystals

[Alex Smith]

On Thu, 2018-04-12 at 21:13 -0400, ATMunn wrote:
> So winning the game is not as valuable as winning an auction?

There are two types of Agorans: those who aim to gain
economic/political power so that it lets them eventually win the game,
and those who aim to win so as to gain economic/political power. The
former group would be happy even if wins /cost/ assets; the latter
would prefer a bonus. So having something that's present but small
makes sense.

-- 
ais523

Re: DIS: Proto: Crystals

[ATMunn]

So winning the game is not as valuable as winning an auction?

On 4/12/2018 8:46 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:

Title: Crystals
Adoption index: 2.0
Author: Aris
Co-author(s):


[I'm changing it so that players CAN upgrade facilities they don't own,
let me know if that's a problem.]

Amend Rule 2562, Facility Ranks, to read as follows:

   Rank is a secured facility switch tracked by the Cartographor defaulting
   to 1, with possible values of all positive integers.

   A player CAN increase the rank of a facility that is at eir location by
   exactly 1 by announcement by paying any upgrade costs of the facility for
   that specific rank, provided that e has not already done so twice for that
   facility in the same Agoran week. A player CAN increase the rank of a
   facility by N by announcement by destroying N crystals in eir possession.

Enact a new rule, entitled "Crystals" (Power = 2.0), with the following text

   Crystals, are a currency, with the Treasuror as their recordkeepor.
   They may be owned by Agora, persons, and contracts. The following units
   are defined:

   - Bronze Crystal, 1 crystal
   - Silver Crystal, 2 crystals
   - Gold Crystal, 4 crystals
   - Platinum Crystal, 8 crystals

Amend the rule defining welcome packages by adding as a new item, appropriately
numbered, at the end of the list "1 Bronze Crystal".

Amend Rule 2483, Economics, by changing the text "The following currencies are
defined, and are tracked by the Treasuror." to read "The following currencies,
known collectively as economic currencies, are defined, and are tracked by the
Treasuror."
Enact a new rule, "Crystal Rewards" (Power = 2.0), with the following text:

   When a person wins the game, if e has not won in the preceding month, 1 
Bronze
   Crystal is created in eir possession.

   A player CAN, by announcement, destroy a crystal in eir possession
   to create 5 economic currencies of specified, possibly varying type.

[I expect the above to be expanded in future.]

Enact a new rule, entitled "Crystal Auctions" (Power = 2.0), with the following
text:

   At the beginning of each month, the Treasuror CAN and SHALL initiate an
   auction. For this auction, the announcer is the Treasuror, the auctioneer is
   Agora, the minimum bid is 1, and there is one lot, chosen as follows:

 - January: Gold Crystal
 - February: Silver Crystal
 - March: Silver Crystal
 - April: Gold Crystal
 - May: Silver Crystal
 - June: Silver Crystal
 - July: Platinum Crystal
 - August: Silver Crystal
 - September: Silver Crystal
 - October: Gold Crystal
 - November: Silver Crystal
 - December: Silver Crystal

   When the winner of the auction pays eir bid, the auctioned crystal is
   immediately created in eir possession.

DIS: Proto: Crystals

[Aris Merchant]

Title: Crystals
Adoption index: 2.0
Author: Aris
Co-author(s):


[I'm changing it so that players CAN upgrade facilities they don't own,
let me know if that's a problem.]

Amend Rule 2562, Facility Ranks, to read as follows:

  Rank is a secured facility switch tracked by the Cartographor defaulting
  to 1, with possible values of all positive integers.

  A player CAN increase the rank of a facility that is at eir location by
  exactly 1 by announcement by paying any upgrade costs of the facility for
  that specific rank, provided that e has not already done so twice for that
  facility in the same Agoran week. A player CAN increase the rank of a
  facility by N by announcement by destroying N crystals in eir possession.

Enact a new rule, entitled "Crystals" (Power = 2.0), with the following text

  Crystals, are a currency, with the Treasuror as their recordkeepor.
  They may be owned by Agora, persons, and contracts. The following units
  are defined:

  - Bronze Crystal, 1 crystal
  - Silver Crystal, 2 crystals
  - Gold Crystal, 4 crystals
  - Platinum Crystal, 8 crystals

Amend the rule defining welcome packages by adding as a new item, appropriately
numbered, at the end of the list "1 Bronze Crystal".

Amend Rule 2483, Economics, by changing the text "The following currencies are
defined, and are tracked by the Treasuror." to read "The following currencies,
known collectively as economic currencies, are defined, and are tracked by the
Treasuror."
Enact a new rule, "Crystal Rewards" (Power = 2.0), with the following text:

  When a person wins the game, if e has not won in the preceding month, 1 Bronze
  Crystal is created in eir possession.

  A player CAN, by announcement, destroy a crystal in eir possession
  to create 5 economic currencies of specified, possibly varying type.

[I expect the above to be expanded in future.]

Enact a new rule, entitled "Crystal Auctions" (Power = 2.0), with the following
text:

  At the beginning of each month, the Treasuror CAN and SHALL initiate an
  auction. For this auction, the announcer is the Treasuror, the auctioneer is
  Agora, the minimum bid is 1, and there is one lot, chosen as follows:

- January: Gold Crystal
- February: Silver Crystal
- March: Silver Crystal
- April: Gold Crystal
- May: Silver Crystal
- June: Silver Crystal
- July: Platinum Crystal
- August: Silver Crystal
- September: Silver Crystal
- October: Gold Crystal
- November: Silver Crystal
- December: Silver Crystal

  When the winner of the auction pays eir bid, the auctioned crystal is
  immediately created in eir possession.