DIS: Re: BUS: Re: [CFJ] ¿Puedo realizar acciónes en español?
On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 8:58 PM Rebecca via agora-discussion wrote: > > The statement of the CFJ translates to something very clear, but the > actual transfer translates to "I transfer a currency to Agora" which fails > because currency is a term of art and there are multiple currencies. Please note the final sentence of Rule 2578. Rule 2578/1 (Power=3) Currencies A currency is a class of asset defined as such by its backing document. Instances of a currency with the same owner are fungible. The "x balance of an entity", where x is a currency, is the number of x that entity possesses. Where it resolves ambiguity, the asset or currency being referred to is the currency designated as the official currency of Agora, if there is one. -Aris
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: [CFJ] ¿Puedo realizar acciónes en español?
On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 1:56 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > On 6/2/2020 7:16 PM, Rebecca via agora-discussion wrote: > >>> Trigon > >>> > >> Those CFJs aren't the end of the story, we had a player back in 2017 > who > >> communicated eir game actions almost entirely in Japanese and we > allowed > >> them if they could be google translated into making sense on the theory > >> that machine translation is so accessible these days > >> -- > >> From R. Lee > >> > > > > The relevant CFJ citation is CFJ 3471, but there are a few others > directly > > following it (that you can find in the CFJ database) > > > > However, CFJ 3530 found that there are distinct limits to that - the > translation has to be pretty clear or it fails. > > https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3530 > > This was the most recent set of such CFJs I think: > https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3534 > https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3535 > https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3536 > > The statement of the CFJ translates to something very clear, but the actual transfer translates to "I transfer a currency to Agora" which fails because currency is a term of art and there are multiple currencies. -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: [CFJ] ¿Puedo realizar acciónes en español?
On 6/2/2020 7:16 PM, Rebecca via agora-discussion wrote: >>> Trigon >>> >> Those CFJs aren't the end of the story, we had a player back in 2017 who >> communicated eir game actions almost entirely in Japanese and we allowed >> them if they could be google translated into making sense on the theory >> that machine translation is so accessible these days >> -- >> From R. Lee >> > > The relevant CFJ citation is CFJ 3471, but there are a few others directly > following it (that you can find in the CFJ database) > However, CFJ 3530 found that there are distinct limits to that - the translation has to be pretty clear or it fails. https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3530 This was the most recent set of such CFJs I think: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3534 https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3535 https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3536
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: [CFJ] ¿Puedo realizar acciónes en español?
On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 12:14 PM Rebecca wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 11:58 AM Reuben Staley via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> On 2020-06-02 19:34, ATMunn via agora-business wrote: >> > Yo transfiero una moneda a Agora. >> > >> > CFJ: En la declaración anterior, transferí una moneda a Agora. >> > >> > CFJ: In the above statement, I issued a Call for Judgement on whether >> > I transferred a coin to Agora in the statement preceding that one. >> > >> > Caller's Arguments (first [attempted] CFJ): If the second CFJ is judged >> > TRUE (arguments below), then the first attempted CFJ is, in fact, a CFJ. >> > By the precedent set by the second CFJ, the first should then be judged >> > TRUE. The only thing preventing it from being judged TRUE if the second >> > one is also is the fact that when put into Google Translate, the word >> > "moneda," intended to mean "coin," is translated as "currency." Because >> > of this, I think that the outcome of this CFJ should probably be linked >> > to the outcome of CFJ 3838. >> > >> > Caller's Arguments (second CFJ): Nothing in the rules states that >> > statements of intent must be in English. Rule 478 states that a person >> > performs an action by "unambiguously and clearly specifying the action >> > and announcing that e performs it." Though not everyone may be able to >> > understand Spanish, it is clear that the message is in Spanish, and, >> > when translated online, the message unambiguously and clearly specifies >> > the action. For this reason, I think that this CFJ should be judged >> > TRUE. However, an argument for judging it FALSE is that Agora has, since >> > its beginning, always been conducted in English. The actual statement >> > itself in its current form, therefore, could be interpreted as being >> > very unclear and ambiguous, since most readers will not understand its >> > meaning without a translator. >> >> ¡Qué genial que haya otros jugadores de Agora que hablen español! >> >> Anyway, a quick search in the FLR for "English" yielded the following >> CFJ annotations which seem relevant: >> >> CFJ 1439 (called 20 Feb 2003): A difference in language qualifies as a >> difference in dialect; it is possible to take game actions by >> messages in languages other than English. >> CFJ 1460 (called 04 Apr 2003): If a message is in a language other than >> English, and its intended audience does not understand the language, >> this constitutes gross unclarity that makes the message ineffective. >> >> (¿por qué quieren todos que mi trabajo sea aún más dificil? :P) >> >> -- >> Trigon >> > Those CFJs aren't the end of the story, we had a player back in 2017 who > communicated eir game actions almost entirely in Japanese and we allowed > them if they could be google translated into making sense on the theory > that machine translation is so accessible these days > -- > From R. Lee > The relevant CFJ citation is CFJ 3471, but there are a few others directly following it (that you can find in the CFJ database) -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: [CFJ] ¿Puedo realizar acciónes en español?
On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 11:58 AM Reuben Staley via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 2020-06-02 19:34, ATMunn via agora-business wrote: > > Yo transfiero una moneda a Agora. > > > > CFJ: En la declaración anterior, transferí una moneda a Agora. > > > > CFJ: In the above statement, I issued a Call for Judgement on whether > > I transferred a coin to Agora in the statement preceding that one. > > > > Caller's Arguments (first [attempted] CFJ): If the second CFJ is judged > > TRUE (arguments below), then the first attempted CFJ is, in fact, a CFJ. > > By the precedent set by the second CFJ, the first should then be judged > > TRUE. The only thing preventing it from being judged TRUE if the second > > one is also is the fact that when put into Google Translate, the word > > "moneda," intended to mean "coin," is translated as "currency." Because > > of this, I think that the outcome of this CFJ should probably be linked > > to the outcome of CFJ 3838. > > > > Caller's Arguments (second CFJ): Nothing in the rules states that > > statements of intent must be in English. Rule 478 states that a person > > performs an action by "unambiguously and clearly specifying the action > > and announcing that e performs it." Though not everyone may be able to > > understand Spanish, it is clear that the message is in Spanish, and, > > when translated online, the message unambiguously and clearly specifies > > the action. For this reason, I think that this CFJ should be judged > > TRUE. However, an argument for judging it FALSE is that Agora has, since > > its beginning, always been conducted in English. The actual statement > > itself in its current form, therefore, could be interpreted as being > > very unclear and ambiguous, since most readers will not understand its > > meaning without a translator. > > ¡Qué genial que haya otros jugadores de Agora que hablen español! > > Anyway, a quick search in the FLR for "English" yielded the following > CFJ annotations which seem relevant: > > CFJ 1439 (called 20 Feb 2003): A difference in language qualifies as a > difference in dialect; it is possible to take game actions by > messages in languages other than English. > CFJ 1460 (called 04 Apr 2003): If a message is in a language other than > English, and its intended audience does not understand the language, > this constitutes gross unclarity that makes the message ineffective. > > (¿por qué quieren todos que mi trabajo sea aún más dificil? :P) > > -- > Trigon > Those CFJs aren't the end of the story, we had a player back in 2017 who communicated eir game actions almost entirely in Japanese and we allowed them if they could be google translated into making sense on the theory that machine translation is so accessible these days -- >From R. Lee
