Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Regardless of the Scam Result
On 6/23/20 1:59 PM, omd via agora-business wrote: > I submit, but do not (as I think I cannot) pend, the following proposal: You ought to have a Pending Card which you could pay to make a pendant if you so choose. -- nch Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager
Re: DIS: Regardless of the Scam Result
On 6/23/2020 10:21 AM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > On 6/23/20 12:16 PM, Alex Smith via agora-discussion wrote: >> For what it's worth, I think that "manually" skunking this scam by proposal >> would be a reasonable way to resolve the circumstance; I doubt either the >> scamsters, nor the other players, would have a problem with the resulting >> gamestate. > > Yea I'm fine with that. We're already hoping to keep gamestate pretty > stable when this triggers. > Sounds perfectly reasonable (again I wasn't at all annoyed personally was just pointing out how it might affect things based on my own thinking since the scam broke)
Re: DIS: Regardless of the Scam Result
On 6/23/20 12:16 PM, Alex Smith via agora-discussion wrote: > For what it's worth, I think that "manually" skunking this scam by proposal > would be a reasonable way to resolve the circumstance; I doubt either the > scamsters, nor the other players, would have a problem with the resulting > gamestate. Yea I'm fine with that. We're already hoping to keep gamestate pretty stable when this triggers. -- nch Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager
Re: DIS: Regardless of the Scam Result
On Tuesday, 23 June 2020, 16:08:36 GMT+1, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote: > ok. I'll go ahead and plan for a week for something that's so uncertain > that I might as well just wait it out. no, not gonna. That's my personal > attitude and like it or not, somewhere in Economics 101 is the fact that > uncertainty suppresses economies, even on a toy scale. Saying "hey you > can just change your strategy every time we get into scam/bug mode" is the > kind of thing that frustrates people and killed land, and spaceships. > Also consider your role: one of the things that soured us more quickly on > shinies is that o [the designer] pulled at least one scam off the bat and > maybe two and we got tired of that... hey here's something for your thesis We should really bring back some sort of skunking rule. (For people who don't know about it: the "skunk" rule was invoked immediately after a scam caused a win, and cancelled any economic reset as a consequence of the win, expect that the winning scammers' economic values were zeroed. I forget what exact mechanism was used to declare a win a skunk, but it was probably Agoran consent or something similar. The win still counted, though. It probably could have itself been scammed, but AFAIR, nobody did.) It strikes me as a fair way to allow scams to occur, but without allowing them into interfere with the rest of the gameplay. That way, people seeing an opportunity to win don't end up accidentally ruining the game for everyone else. For what it's worth, I think that "manually" skunking this scam by proposal would be a reasonable way to resolve the circumstance; I doubt either the scamsters, nor the other players, would have a problem with the resulting gamestate. -- ais523
Re: DIS: Regardless of the Scam Result
I personally am happy to write a proposal to reset the economy (everyone's assets) to the point they were right before the scam happens. so that trading in the interim will still be rewarded. On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 1:09 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > On 6/23/2020 7:57 AM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > > On 6/23/20 9:53 AM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote: > >> On 6/23/2020 7:49 AM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > >>> This scam doesn't actually grind out economy to a hault, or at least it > >>> doesn't have to. When someone wins by victory points, cards and > products > >>> get reset but coins, blots, and assets created by contracts don't. That > >>> means there should still be incentive to buy/sell/trade. If it looks > >>> like the scam is likely to succeed I recommend using what you have how > >>> you can and selling off the rest. > >>> > >> Trade what? coins, blots and contract assets were all the pre-Sets > >> economy. not much to trade there. > >> > >> If I wasn't thinking "ok here's my next trade, and my next, and then I > >> have these products" that might be a comfort. As it is, it's more like > >> "well might as well hold on to coins and there's no point in investing > in > >> any cards and products except maybe expunge a blot if I've got one". > >> > >> -G. > >> > > Trade Cards/Products to someone who can use them before the reset, in > > exchange for coins which you'll still have after. If you have extra > > pendants and someone wants to pend some things, they may be willing to > > buy. The urgency of you ditching the extras presumably will make them > > cheaper now than they will be post reset. > > ok. I'll go ahead and plan for a week for something that's so uncertain > that I might as well just wait it out. no, not gonna. That's my personal > attitude and like it or not, somewhere in Economics 101 is the fact that > uncertainty suppresses economies, even on a toy scale. Saying "hey you > can just change your strategy every time we get into scam/bug mode" is the > kind of thing that frustrates people and killed land, and spaceships. > Also consider your role: one of the things that soured us more quickly on > shinies is that o [the designer] pulled at least one scam off the bat and > maybe two and we got tired of that... hey here's something for your thesis > > [ps. not annoyed at all with the scam attempt, if it sounds like I am, > just pointing out some realities of past consequences to keep in mind if > you want the system to thrive through this]. > > -G. > > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Regardless of the Scam Result
On 6/23/20 10:06 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > ok. I'll go ahead and plan for a week for something that's so uncertain > that I might as well just wait it out. no, not gonna. That's my personal > attitude and like it or not, somewhere in Economics 101 is the fact that > uncertainty suppresses economies, even on a toy scale. Uncertainty in an economic system encourages people to liquidate uncertain assets for certain ones, that's exactly what I'm suggesting people do. If you don't want to that's fine, I'm just pointing out that some assets have continuity and people might want to consider that in their play this week. This is also not a scam specific to this economy, it pre-existed with the high score win condition. Nothing added or amended by Sets changed this scam. -- nch Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager
Re: DIS: Regardless of the Scam Result
On 6/23/2020 7:57 AM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > On 6/23/20 9:53 AM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote: >> On 6/23/2020 7:49 AM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: >>> This scam doesn't actually grind out economy to a hault, or at least it >>> doesn't have to. When someone wins by victory points, cards and products >>> get reset but coins, blots, and assets created by contracts don't. That >>> means there should still be incentive to buy/sell/trade. If it looks >>> like the scam is likely to succeed I recommend using what you have how >>> you can and selling off the rest. >>> >> Trade what? coins, blots and contract assets were all the pre-Sets >> economy. not much to trade there. >> >> If I wasn't thinking "ok here's my next trade, and my next, and then I >> have these products" that might be a comfort. As it is, it's more like >> "well might as well hold on to coins and there's no point in investing in >> any cards and products except maybe expunge a blot if I've got one". >> >> -G. >> > Trade Cards/Products to someone who can use them before the reset, in > exchange for coins which you'll still have after. If you have extra > pendants and someone wants to pend some things, they may be willing to > buy. The urgency of you ditching the extras presumably will make them > cheaper now than they will be post reset. ok. I'll go ahead and plan for a week for something that's so uncertain that I might as well just wait it out. no, not gonna. That's my personal attitude and like it or not, somewhere in Economics 101 is the fact that uncertainty suppresses economies, even on a toy scale. Saying "hey you can just change your strategy every time we get into scam/bug mode" is the kind of thing that frustrates people and killed land, and spaceships. Also consider your role: one of the things that soured us more quickly on shinies is that o [the designer] pulled at least one scam off the bat and maybe two and we got tired of that... hey here's something for your thesis [ps. not annoyed at all with the scam attempt, if it sounds like I am, just pointing out some realities of past consequences to keep in mind if you want the system to thrive through this]. -G.
Re: DIS: Regardless of the Scam Result
On 6/23/20 9:53 AM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote: > > On 6/23/2020 7:49 AM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: >> This scam doesn't actually grind out economy to a hault, or at least it >> doesn't have to. When someone wins by victory points, cards and products >> get reset but coins, blots, and assets created by contracts don't. That >> means there should still be incentive to buy/sell/trade. If it looks >> like the scam is likely to succeed I recommend using what you have how >> you can and selling off the rest. >> > Trade what? coins, blots and contract assets were all the pre-Sets > economy. not much to trade there. > > If I wasn't thinking "ok here's my next trade, and my next, and then I > have these products" that might be a comfort. As it is, it's more like > "well might as well hold on to coins and there's no point in investing in > any cards and products except maybe expunge a blot if I've got one". > > -G. > Trade Cards/Products to someone who can use them before the reset, in exchange for coins which you'll still have after. If you have extra pendants and someone wants to pend some things, they may be willing to buy. The urgency of you ditching the extras presumably will make them cheaper now than they will be post reset. -- nch Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager
Re: DIS: Regardless of the Scam Result
On 6/23/20 9:56 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion wrote: > I just noticed something about Rule 2624: After a reset, officers can't > grant new cards if they had done so in the same month but prior to the > reset. Is this by design? No, unintended/expected. I just didn't think about it but it'd be a good fix. -- nch Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager
Re: DIS: Regardless of the Scam Result
On 6/23/20 10:53 AM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote: > > On 6/23/2020 7:49 AM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: >> This scam doesn't actually grind out economy to a hault, or at least it >> doesn't have to. When someone wins by victory points, cards and products >> get reset but coins, blots, and assets created by contracts don't. That >> means there should still be incentive to buy/sell/trade. If it looks >> like the scam is likely to succeed I recommend using what you have how >> you can and selling off the rest. >> > > Trade what? coins, blots and contract assets were all the pre-Sets > economy. not much to trade there. > > If I wasn't thinking "ok here's my next trade, and my next, and then I > have these products" that might be a comfort. As it is, it's more like > "well might as well hold on to coins and there's no point in investing in > any cards and products except maybe expunge a blot if I've got one". > > -G. > I just noticed something about Rule 2624: After a reset, officers can't grant new cards if they had done so in the same month but prior to the reset. Is this by design? -- Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
Re: DIS: Regardless of the Scam Result
On 6/23/2020 7:49 AM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > This scam doesn't actually grind out economy to a hault, or at least it > doesn't have to. When someone wins by victory points, cards and products > get reset but coins, blots, and assets created by contracts don't. That > means there should still be incentive to buy/sell/trade. If it looks > like the scam is likely to succeed I recommend using what you have how > you can and selling off the rest. > Trade what? coins, blots and contract assets were all the pre-Sets economy. not much to trade there. If I wasn't thinking "ok here's my next trade, and my next, and then I have these products" that might be a comfort. As it is, it's more like "well might as well hold on to coins and there's no point in investing in any cards and products except maybe expunge a blot if I've got one". -G.
DIS: Regardless of the Scam Result
This scam doesn't actually grind out economy to a hault, or at least it doesn't have to. When someone wins by victory points, cards and products get reset but coins, blots, and assets created by contracts don't. That means there should still be incentive to buy/sell/trade. If it looks like the scam is likely to succeed I recommend using what you have how you can and selling off the rest. -- nch Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager
