Re: DIS: Campaign proposal proto

[Ørjan Johansen]

On Wed, 22 Nov 2017, Corona wrote:


Well, I felt uncomfortable not having a Campaign Proposal if PSS is
going to have one, so... I'd rather if y'all checked it for obvious
holes, since it looks like it can't be retracted once announced.


Hm you CAN retract it from the Proposal Pool (rule 2350).  However:

* By Rule 2445, Official Proposals are always Pending, possibly even if 
not in the Pool (what about after distribution or adoption?)
* The Campaign Proposal rules only talk about whether they're Pending or 
not


I'm not sure what, if any effect that has.

Greetings,
Ørjan.

Re: DIS: Campaign proposal proto

[ATMunn]

I think it's an interesting idea, but it's a bit too pragmatic. I haven't read 
anyone else's messages, but here are my comments.

On 11/22/2017 6:17 PM, Corona wrote:

Well, I felt uncomfortable not having a Campaign Proposal if PSS is
going to have one, so... I'd rather if y'all checked it for obvious
holes, since it looks like it can't be retracted once announced.

The idea was that since the Herald, among other things, manages the
celebrations, he could have some silly gadgets for celebrations (I was
low on ideas). The Red Fireworks are meant to complement the rule that
missing deadlines on holidays should be forgiven.

I submit my Campaign Proposal for the Herald election:
Create a new rule with power 1, name "Fireworks" and text as follows:

All types of Fireworks are fixed assets. The Herald is the
recordkeepor of all types of Fireworks. The Herald CAN create any type
of Fireworks in any player's possession. He SHALL not do so without an
appropriate reason, or excessively. The types of Fireworks are:

I don't really like having each type of Firework be its own asset here, I think 
that Fireworks should be one type of asset, and fireworks have a Type switch, 
with values Red, Yellow, and Blue.

He should be switched to e.

"SHALL not" is a bit confusing; the proper capitalization is "SHALL NOT".

Also, I think it would be better to specify that the Herald needs to have a 
reason in the same message as the awarding.

Finally, "excessively" is very subjective: I'd recommend setting a certain 
amount of Fireworks per month or week that the Herald SHALL NOT award more than.


Red Firework - appropriate for holidays. If a player destroys a Red
Firework and specifies in the same message any one instance of a rule-
or contract-defined time limit in which one or more players
SHALL/SHOULD perform an action, then it is ILLEGAL to punish, in any
manner, those players for violation of the time limit, until at least
two days have passed since the time limit without them having
performed the action pertaining to the time limit.

It's not necessary to say "SHALL/SHOULD". A violation of a SHOULD is not 
punishable.


Yellow Firework - appropriate for the joyous moments of Agora. If a
player destroys a Yellow Firework and, in the same message, writes a
celebratory message of at least 20 words, describing the event they
wish to celebrate, any player reading that message SHALL set their
emotion to Joyous.

Blue Firework - appropriate for the tragic moments of Agora. If a
player destroys a Blue Firework and, in the same message, writes a
mournful message of at least 20 words, describing the event they wish
to mourn, any player reading that message SHALL set their emotion to
Melancholy.


I like the idea of these two, but the phrase "any player reading that message SHALL 
set their emotion" is very hard to enforce, as there is no way for any player to 
know what any other player read. A player can read the message, not set eir emotion, and 
claim that they didn't read the message and there would be no real way to prove otherwise.

The simple solution would just to use SHOULD instead.

Re: DIS: Campaign proposal proto

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

You SHOULD make it a SHOULD not a SHALL. That is how other emotion things have 
been done.

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



> On Nov 22, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Corona  wrote:
> 
> That was intended to be the point; you could choose not to disclose
> that you have read the message, avoiding any punishment for not having
> emotion X
> 
> On 11/22/17, VJ Rada  wrote:
>> It's a proto, correctly sent to discussion.
>> 
>> I question the wisdom of imposing an obligation on anyone who reads a
>> particular message. It's not possible to know who reads what. Also,
>> I'd like not to be punished for not being happy enough please. You
>> can't tell me what to do! Finally, I voted against emotions for adding
>> fluff to the rules: this is even more auxiliary fluff that I would
>> vote against.
>> 
>> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Madeline  wrote:
>>> Need to TTttPF, and also you forgot Spivak pronouns.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2017-11-23 10:17, Corona wrote:
 
 Well, I felt uncomfortable not having a Campaign Proposal if PSS is
 going to have one, so... I'd rather if y'all checked it for obvious
 holes, since it looks like it can't be retracted once announced.
 
 The idea was that since the Herald, among other things, manages the
 celebrations, he could have some silly gadgets for celebrations (I was
 low on ideas). The Red Fireworks are meant to complement the rule that
 missing deadlines on holidays should be forgiven.
 
 I submit my Campaign Proposal for the Herald election:
 Create a new rule with power 1, name "Fireworks" and text as follows:
 
 All types of Fireworks are fixed assets. The Herald is the
 recordkeepor of all types of Fireworks. The Herald CAN create any type
 of Fireworks in any player's possession. He SHALL not do so without an
 appropriate reason, or excessively. The types of Fireworks are:
 
 Red Firework - appropriate for holidays. If a player destroys a Red
 Firework and specifies in the same message any one instance of a rule-
 or contract-defined time limit in which one or more players
 SHALL/SHOULD perform an action, then it is ILLEGAL to punish, in any
 manner, those players for violation of the time limit, until at least
 two days have passed since the time limit without them having
 performed the action pertaining to the time limit.
 
 Yellow Firework - appropriate for the joyous moments of Agora. If a
 player destroys a Yellow Firework and, in the same message, writes a
 celebratory message of at least 20 words, describing the event they
 wish to celebrate, any player reading that message SHALL set their
 emotion to Joyous.
 
 Blue Firework - appropriate for the tragic moments of Agora. If a
 player destroys a Blue Firework and, in the same message, writes a
 mournful message of at least 20 words, describing the event they wish
 to mourn, any player reading that message SHALL set their emotion to
 Melancholy.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> From V.J. Rada
>> 



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Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

Re: DIS: Campaign proposal proto

[Corona]

Oh well. If it turns out to be unpopular, I won't submit it, and in no
case will I commit to it.

On 11/22/17, VJ Rada  wrote:
> It's a proto, correctly sent to discussion.
>
> I question the wisdom of imposing an obligation on anyone who reads a
> particular message. It's not possible to know who reads what. Also,
> I'd like not to be punished for not being happy enough please. You
> can't tell me what to do! Finally, I voted against emotions for adding
> fluff to the rules: this is even more auxiliary fluff that I would
> vote against.
>
> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Madeline  wrote:
>> Need to TTttPF, and also you forgot Spivak pronouns.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2017-11-23 10:17, Corona wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, I felt uncomfortable not having a Campaign Proposal if PSS is
>>> going to have one, so... I'd rather if y'all checked it for obvious
>>> holes, since it looks like it can't be retracted once announced.
>>>
>>> The idea was that since the Herald, among other things, manages the
>>> celebrations, he could have some silly gadgets for celebrations (I was
>>> low on ideas). The Red Fireworks are meant to complement the rule that
>>> missing deadlines on holidays should be forgiven.
>>>
>>> I submit my Campaign Proposal for the Herald election:
>>> Create a new rule with power 1, name "Fireworks" and text as follows:
>>>
>>> All types of Fireworks are fixed assets. The Herald is the
>>> recordkeepor of all types of Fireworks. The Herald CAN create any type
>>> of Fireworks in any player's possession. He SHALL not do so without an
>>> appropriate reason, or excessively. The types of Fireworks are:
>>>
>>> Red Firework - appropriate for holidays. If a player destroys a Red
>>> Firework and specifies in the same message any one instance of a rule-
>>> or contract-defined time limit in which one or more players
>>> SHALL/SHOULD perform an action, then it is ILLEGAL to punish, in any
>>> manner, those players for violation of the time limit, until at least
>>> two days have passed since the time limit without them having
>>> performed the action pertaining to the time limit.
>>>
>>> Yellow Firework - appropriate for the joyous moments of Agora. If a
>>> player destroys a Yellow Firework and, in the same message, writes a
>>> celebratory message of at least 20 words, describing the event they
>>> wish to celebrate, any player reading that message SHALL set their
>>> emotion to Joyous.
>>>
>>> Blue Firework - appropriate for the tragic moments of Agora. If a
>>> player destroys a Blue Firework and, in the same message, writes a
>>> mournful message of at least 20 words, describing the event they wish
>>> to mourn, any player reading that message SHALL set their emotion to
>>> Melancholy.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada
>

Re: DIS: Campaign proposal proto

[Corona]

That was intended to be the point; you could choose not to disclose
that you have read the message, avoiding any punishment for not having
emotion X

On 11/22/17, VJ Rada  wrote:
> It's a proto, correctly sent to discussion.
>
> I question the wisdom of imposing an obligation on anyone who reads a
> particular message. It's not possible to know who reads what. Also,
> I'd like not to be punished for not being happy enough please. You
> can't tell me what to do! Finally, I voted against emotions for adding
> fluff to the rules: this is even more auxiliary fluff that I would
> vote against.
>
> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Madeline  wrote:
>> Need to TTttPF, and also you forgot Spivak pronouns.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2017-11-23 10:17, Corona wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, I felt uncomfortable not having a Campaign Proposal if PSS is
>>> going to have one, so... I'd rather if y'all checked it for obvious
>>> holes, since it looks like it can't be retracted once announced.
>>>
>>> The idea was that since the Herald, among other things, manages the
>>> celebrations, he could have some silly gadgets for celebrations (I was
>>> low on ideas). The Red Fireworks are meant to complement the rule that
>>> missing deadlines on holidays should be forgiven.
>>>
>>> I submit my Campaign Proposal for the Herald election:
>>> Create a new rule with power 1, name "Fireworks" and text as follows:
>>>
>>> All types of Fireworks are fixed assets. The Herald is the
>>> recordkeepor of all types of Fireworks. The Herald CAN create any type
>>> of Fireworks in any player's possession. He SHALL not do so without an
>>> appropriate reason, or excessively. The types of Fireworks are:
>>>
>>> Red Firework - appropriate for holidays. If a player destroys a Red
>>> Firework and specifies in the same message any one instance of a rule-
>>> or contract-defined time limit in which one or more players
>>> SHALL/SHOULD perform an action, then it is ILLEGAL to punish, in any
>>> manner, those players for violation of the time limit, until at least
>>> two days have passed since the time limit without them having
>>> performed the action pertaining to the time limit.
>>>
>>> Yellow Firework - appropriate for the joyous moments of Agora. If a
>>> player destroys a Yellow Firework and, in the same message, writes a
>>> celebratory message of at least 20 words, describing the event they
>>> wish to celebrate, any player reading that message SHALL set their
>>> emotion to Joyous.
>>>
>>> Blue Firework - appropriate for the tragic moments of Agora. If a
>>> player destroys a Blue Firework and, in the same message, writes a
>>> mournful message of at least 20 words, describing the event they wish
>>> to mourn, any player reading that message SHALL set their emotion to
>>> Melancholy.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada
>

Re: DIS: Campaign proposal proto

[Corona]

It's a proto. I apologise for the pronouns, here's a fixed version:

I submit my Campaign Proposal for the Herald election:
Create a new rule with power 1, name "Fireworks" and text as follows:

All types of Fireworks are fixed assets. The Herald is the
recordkeepor of all types of Fireworks. The Herald CAN create any type
of Fireworks in any player's possession. E SHALL not do so without an
appropriate reason, or excessively. The types of Fireworks are:

Red Firework - appropriate for holidays. If a player destroys a Red
Firework and specifies in the same message any one instance of a rule-
or contract-defined time limit in which one or more players
SHALL/SHOULD perform an action, then it is ILLEGAL to punish, in any
manner, those players for violation of the time limit, until at least
two days have passed since the time limit without them having
performed the action pertaining to the time limit.

Yellow Firework - appropriate for the joyous moments of Agora. If a
player destroys a Yellow Firework and, in the same message, writes a
celebratory message of at least 20 words, describing the event e
wishes to celebrate, any player reading that message SHALL set eir
emotion to Joyous.

Blue Firework - appropriate for the tragic moments of Agora. If a
player destroys a Blue Firework and, in the same message, writes a
mournful message of at least 20 words, describing the event e wishes
to mourn, any player reading that message SHALL set eir emotion to
Melancholy.

On 11/22/17, Madeline  wrote:
> Need to TTttPF, and also you forgot Spivak pronouns.
>
>
> On 2017-11-23 10:17, Corona wrote:
>> Well, I felt uncomfortable not having a Campaign Proposal if PSS is
>> going to have one, so... I'd rather if y'all checked it for obvious
>> holes, since it looks like it can't be retracted once announced.
>>
>> The idea was that since the Herald, among other things, manages the
>> celebrations, he could have some silly gadgets for celebrations (I was
>> low on ideas). The Red Fireworks are meant to complement the rule that
>> missing deadlines on holidays should be forgiven.
>>
>> I submit my Campaign Proposal for the Herald election:
>> Create a new rule with power 1, name "Fireworks" and text as follows:
>>
>> All types of Fireworks are fixed assets. The Herald is the
>> recordkeepor of all types of Fireworks. The Herald CAN create any type
>> of Fireworks in any player's possession. He SHALL not do so without an
>> appropriate reason, or excessively. The types of Fireworks are:
>>
>> Red Firework - appropriate for holidays. If a player destroys a Red
>> Firework and specifies in the same message any one instance of a rule-
>> or contract-defined time limit in which one or more players
>> SHALL/SHOULD perform an action, then it is ILLEGAL to punish, in any
>> manner, those players for violation of the time limit, until at least
>> two days have passed since the time limit without them having
>> performed the action pertaining to the time limit.
>>
>> Yellow Firework - appropriate for the joyous moments of Agora. If a
>> player destroys a Yellow Firework and, in the same message, writes a
>> celebratory message of at least 20 words, describing the event they
>> wish to celebrate, any player reading that message SHALL set their
>> emotion to Joyous.
>>
>> Blue Firework - appropriate for the tragic moments of Agora. If a
>> player destroys a Blue Firework and, in the same message, writes a
>> mournful message of at least 20 words, describing the event they wish
>> to mourn, any player reading that message SHALL set their emotion to
>> Melancholy.
>
>
>

Re: DIS: Campaign proposal proto

[VJ Rada]

It's a proto, correctly sent to discussion.

I question the wisdom of imposing an obligation on anyone who reads a
particular message. It's not possible to know who reads what. Also,
I'd like not to be punished for not being happy enough please. You
can't tell me what to do! Finally, I voted against emotions for adding
fluff to the rules: this is even more auxiliary fluff that I would
vote against.

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Madeline  wrote:
> Need to TTttPF, and also you forgot Spivak pronouns.
>
>
>
> On 2017-11-23 10:17, Corona wrote:
>>
>> Well, I felt uncomfortable not having a Campaign Proposal if PSS is
>> going to have one, so... I'd rather if y'all checked it for obvious
>> holes, since it looks like it can't be retracted once announced.
>>
>> The idea was that since the Herald, among other things, manages the
>> celebrations, he could have some silly gadgets for celebrations (I was
>> low on ideas). The Red Fireworks are meant to complement the rule that
>> missing deadlines on holidays should be forgiven.
>>
>> I submit my Campaign Proposal for the Herald election:
>> Create a new rule with power 1, name "Fireworks" and text as follows:
>>
>> All types of Fireworks are fixed assets. The Herald is the
>> recordkeepor of all types of Fireworks. The Herald CAN create any type
>> of Fireworks in any player's possession. He SHALL not do so without an
>> appropriate reason, or excessively. The types of Fireworks are:
>>
>> Red Firework - appropriate for holidays. If a player destroys a Red
>> Firework and specifies in the same message any one instance of a rule-
>> or contract-defined time limit in which one or more players
>> SHALL/SHOULD perform an action, then it is ILLEGAL to punish, in any
>> manner, those players for violation of the time limit, until at least
>> two days have passed since the time limit without them having
>> performed the action pertaining to the time limit.
>>
>> Yellow Firework - appropriate for the joyous moments of Agora. If a
>> player destroys a Yellow Firework and, in the same message, writes a
>> celebratory message of at least 20 words, describing the event they
>> wish to celebrate, any player reading that message SHALL set their
>> emotion to Joyous.
>>
>> Blue Firework - appropriate for the tragic moments of Agora. If a
>> player destroys a Blue Firework and, in the same message, writes a
>> mournful message of at least 20 words, describing the event they wish
>> to mourn, any player reading that message SHALL set their emotion to
>> Melancholy.
>
>
>



-- 
>From V.J. Rada

Re: DIS: Campaign proposal proto

[Madeline]

Need to TTttPF, and also you forgot Spivak pronouns.


On 2017-11-23 10:17, Corona wrote:

Well, I felt uncomfortable not having a Campaign Proposal if PSS is
going to have one, so... I'd rather if y'all checked it for obvious
holes, since it looks like it can't be retracted once announced.

The idea was that since the Herald, among other things, manages the
celebrations, he could have some silly gadgets for celebrations (I was
low on ideas). The Red Fireworks are meant to complement the rule that
missing deadlines on holidays should be forgiven.

I submit my Campaign Proposal for the Herald election:
Create a new rule with power 1, name "Fireworks" and text as follows:

All types of Fireworks are fixed assets. The Herald is the
recordkeepor of all types of Fireworks. The Herald CAN create any type
of Fireworks in any player's possession. He SHALL not do so without an
appropriate reason, or excessively. The types of Fireworks are:

Red Firework - appropriate for holidays. If a player destroys a Red
Firework and specifies in the same message any one instance of a rule-
or contract-defined time limit in which one or more players
SHALL/SHOULD perform an action, then it is ILLEGAL to punish, in any
manner, those players for violation of the time limit, until at least
two days have passed since the time limit without them having
performed the action pertaining to the time limit.

Yellow Firework - appropriate for the joyous moments of Agora. If a
player destroys a Yellow Firework and, in the same message, writes a
celebratory message of at least 20 words, describing the event they
wish to celebrate, any player reading that message SHALL set their
emotion to Joyous.

Blue Firework - appropriate for the tragic moments of Agora. If a
player destroys a Blue Firework and, in the same message, writes a
mournful message of at least 20 words, describing the event they wish
to mourn, any player reading that message SHALL set their emotion to
Melancholy.