[Alsa-devel] ALSA related comments - please correct
Hello, we discovered your notes about ALSA (Advanced Linux Sound Architecture) on your web pages: http://www.transgaming.com/showthread.php?news=98 Please, let me comment ALSA issues. Perhaps, your development people should contact us directly before making such bad assumptions. ALSA, of particular interest to TransGaming's Linux audience, does not provide much of an added benefit over OSS. The primary speed advantage, hardware mixing, a slower kludgy implementation use due to the fact that looping sound doesn't appear to be supported; although full duplex What's looping sound? You can initiate endless ring buffer looping when you set stop_threshold to boundary (sw_params). I think that this major drawback does not exist. support should be easier to provide than with OSS. The major drawback of ALSA is that its mmap interface is not compatible with what is required for DirectSound unless undocumented interfaces are used. All in all it appears that using ALSA would provide some speed advantages for newer cards, but to be done properly would require a rewrite of the winealsa driver. Thus we would suggest that, for the time being, people continue to use the OSS emulation layer of ALSA with MMap = Y enabled in their config file to get the best performance if it's supported on their sound card. We can do everything with our API like OSS and our API has many other extensions which OSS does not have. Again, please, tell your developers that they are wrong and remove this paragraph from your pages, because this text hurt us. Jaroslav Kysela The ALSA project leader - Jaroslav Kysela [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Kernel Sound Maintainer ALSA Project, SuSE Labs --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials. Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills. Sign up for IBM's Free Linux Tutorials. Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin. Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1278alloc_id=3371op=click ___ Alsa-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-devel
Re: [Alsa-devel] ALSA related comments - please correct
I think transgaming should fully embrace ALSA otherwise they are hurting themselves. OSS is DEAD and with kernel 2.6 most if not all distros will use ALSA by default while providing an OSS emulation layer. mmap is not necessarily needed for good performance and low latency and it would be better if people implemented only a jackd interface to provide maximum benefits for users. writing a jackd client is much easier than using ALSA, OSS etc directly plus you get all the routing for free and you can totally forget about mmap and other soundcard specific stuff. The future of audio on linux is called jackd clients, jackd that does audio I/O via ALSA. Please remove OSS and /dev/dsp from your dictionary :-) cheers, Benno http://www.linuxsampler.org Jaroslav Kysela wrote: Hello, we discovered your notes about ALSA (Advanced Linux Sound Architecture) on your web pages: http://www.transgaming.com/showthread.php?news=98 Please, let me comment ALSA issues. Perhaps, your development people should contact us directly before making such bad assumptions. ALSA, of particular interest to TransGaming's Linux audience, does not provide much of an added benefit over OSS. The primary speed advantage, hardware mixing, a slower kludgy implementation use due to the fact that looping sound doesn't appear to be supported; although full duplex What's looping sound? You can initiate endless ring buffer looping when you set stop_threshold to boundary (sw_params). I think that this major drawback does not exist. support should be easier to provide than with OSS. The major drawback of ALSA is that its mmap interface is not compatible with what is required for DirectSound unless undocumented interfaces are used. All in all it appears that using ALSA would provide some speed advantages for newer cards, but to be done properly would require a rewrite of the winealsa driver. Thus we would suggest that, for the time being, people continue to use the OSS emulation layer of ALSA with MMap = Y enabled in their config file to get the best performance if it's supported on their sound card. We can do everything with our API like OSS and our API has many other extensions which OSS does not have. Again, please, tell your developers that they are wrong and remove this paragraph from your pages, because this text hurt us. Jaroslav Kysela The ALSA project leader - Jaroslav Kysela [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Kernel Sound Maintainer ALSA Project, SuSE Labs --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials. Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills. Sign up for IBM's Free Linux Tutorials. Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin. Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1278alloc_id=3371op=click ___ Alsa-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-devel --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials. Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills. Sign up for IBM's Free Linux Tutorials. Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin. Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1278alloc_id=3371op=click ___ Alsa-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-devel
Re: [Alsa-devel] Why does Alsa sometimes not find the HDSP 9652?
On Sat, 2003-12-20 at 16:21, Mark Knecht wrote: Wizard root # /etc/init.d/alsasound start * Loading ALSA drivers... * Loading: snd-seq-oss * Loading: snd-pcm-oss * Loading: snd-mixer-oss * Loading: snd-via82xx * Loading: snd-hdsp /lib/modules/2.4.20-gentoo-r9/kernel/sound/pci/rme9652/snd-hdsp.o: init_module: No such device Hint: insmod errors can be caused by incorrect module parameters, including inva lid IO or IRQ parameters. You may find more information in syslog or the output from dmesg You may indeed find more information in the syslog. Probably the memory allocator has failed to load. You need to load it as early as possible after boot. Might be worth moving sound start to earlier in boot. It might be something else, but without syslog cant help. Justin --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials. Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills. Sign up for IBM's Free Linux Tutorials. Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin. Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1278alloc_id=3371op=click ___ Alsa-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-devel
Re: [Alsa-devel] Why does Alsa sometimes not find the HDSP 9652?
Justin, Hi. Thanks. syslog from that series of boots is attached. Note the first boot, line 304 looks like this: Dec 20 05:43:46 Wizard kernel: ALSA ../../alsa-kernel/pci/rme9652/hdsp.c:807: wait for FIFO status = 0 failed after 100 iterations Dec 20 05:43:46 Wizard kernel: RME Hammerfall-DSP: no cards found but I didn't use sound that early in the morning, so I didn;t notice the problem. Later in the morning I finally started to kick off some work, but hdspmixer wouldn't load (line 382 or so...) and so I did a reboot. (line 414) This time the lines above did not repeat and I get a better message: (line 716) Dec 20 08:22:48 Wizard kernel: ALSA ../../alsa-kernel/pci/rme9652/hdsp.c:5061: Firmware already loaded, initializing card. If you wanted to look for other, similar, flaky aspects of Linux, my USB UPS does similar thins. Sometimes drivers load, sometimes I have to reboot to get them loaded. There is no pattern. This morning's cold boot worked jsut fine. I got both the HDSP and the UPS. I'm not clear about how to mess with the memory allocator, but I'm not sure that's appropriate after viewing the attached file. Thanks for your help! Mark On Sun, 2003-12-21 at 07:21, Justin Cormack wrote: On Sat, 2003-12-20 at 16:21, Mark Knecht wrote: Wizard root # /etc/init.d/alsasound start * Loading ALSA drivers... * Loading: snd-seq-oss * Loading: snd-pcm-oss * Loading: snd-mixer-oss * Loading: snd-via82xx * Loading: snd-hdsp /lib/modules/2.4.20-gentoo-r9/kernel/sound/pci/rme9652/snd-hdsp.o: init_module: No such device Hint: insmod errors can be caused by incorrect module parameters, including inva lid IO or IRQ parameters. You may find more information in syslog or the output from dmesg You may indeed find more information in the syslog. Probably the memory allocator has failed to load. You need to load it as early as possible after boot. Might be worth moving sound start to earlier in boot. It might be something else, but without syslog cant help. Justin --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials. Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills. Sign up for IBM's Free Linux Tutorials. Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin. Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1278alloc_id=3371op=click ___ Alsa-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-devel syslog.0.bz2 Description: application/bzip
Re: [Alsa-devel] Why does Alsa sometimes not find the HDSP 9652?
Justin, I'm running Alsa-1.0.0rc2. How much more up to date could I be? Also, this is an HDSP 9652 which has the firmware on the board. Why is a firmware loader required at all? Possibly you're on to something I don't see yet? Maybe something is left over from an older version and causing problems? Let me know, Mark On Sun, 2003-12-21 at 09:11, Justin Cormack wrote: On Sun, 2003-12-21 at 16:03, Mark Knecht wrote: Justin, Hi. Thanks. syslog from that series of boots is attached. Note the first boot, line 304 looks like this: Dec 20 05:43:46 Wizard kernel: ALSA ../../alsa-kernel/pci/rme9652/hdsp.c:807: wait for FIFO status = 0 failed after 100 iterations Dec 20 05:43:46 Wizard kernel: RME Hammerfall-DSP: no cards found ah. Update your alsa to the latest version. This is the old firmware loader bug. It is fixed now (but there is a seperate loader hdsploader that you have to run). Justin --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials. Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills. Sign up for IBM's Free Linux Tutorials. Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin. Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1278alloc_id=3371op=click ___ Alsa-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-devel
Re: [Alsa-devel] ALSA related comments - please correct
Jaroslav Kysela wrote: Hello, we discovered your notes about ALSA (Advanced Linux Sound Architecture) on your web pages: http://www.transgaming.com/showthread.php?news=98 Please, let me comment ALSA issues. Perhaps, your development people should contact us directly before making such bad assumptions. ALSA, of particular interest to TransGaming's Linux audience, does not provide much of an added benefit over OSS. The primary speed advantage, hardware mixing, a slower kludgy implementation use due to the fact that looping sound doesn't appear to be supported; although full duplex What's looping sound? You can initiate endless ring buffer looping when you set stop_threshold to boundary (sw_params). I think that this major drawback does not exist. support should be easier to provide than with OSS. The major drawback of ALSA is that its mmap interface is not compatible with what is required for DirectSound unless undocumented interfaces are used. All in all it appears that using ALSA would provide some speed advantages for newer cards, but to be done properly would require a rewrite of the winealsa driver. Thus we would suggest that, for the time being, people continue to use the OSS emulation layer of ALSA with MMap = Y enabled in their config file to get the best performance if it's supported on their sound card. We can do everything with our API like OSS and our API has many other extensions which OSS does not have. Again, please, tell your developers that they are wrong and remove this paragraph from your pages, because this text hurt us. Jaroslav Kysela The ALSA project leader - Jaroslav Kysela [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Kernel Sound Maintainer ALSA Project, SuSE Labs Jaroslav, wine's support for alsa has always been badly implemented. I have had to use wine's oss module linking to alsa emulation to get sound out. If someone from the wine project can educate me on the win32 sound api, I am sure I could get wine to support alsa properly. Whether win32 needs mmap, callback model, and looping, alsa can be made to handle all these. I will probably do it for wine instead of winex though, because I would want the resulting code to be free, and not cost money like winex does. Cheers James --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials. Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills. Sign up for IBM's Free Linux Tutorials. Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin. Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1278alloc_id=3371op=click ___ Alsa-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-devel
[Alsa-devel] Typo in Writing-an-ALSA-Driver
Hi,
two small typos in the docs on
http://www.alsa-project.org/~iwai/writing-an-alsa-driver/x494.htm
There are *playback* labeled functions for open and close:
static snd_pcm_ops_t snd_mychip_playback_ops = {
.open =snd_mychip_playback_open,
.close = snd_mychip_playback_close,
[...]
};
But OTOH they were called *pcm* instead of *playback*:
static int snd_mychip_pcm_open(snd_pcm_substream_t *subs) {}
static int snd_mychip_pcm_close(snd_pcm_substream_t *substream) {}
martin
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Re: [Alsa-devel] Typo in Writing-an-ALSA-Driver
On Sun, Dec 21, 2003 at 07:11:17PM +0100, Martin Langer wrote:
Hi,
two small typos in the docs on
http://www.alsa-project.org/~iwai/writing-an-alsa-driver/x494.htm
There are *playback* labeled functions for open and close:
static snd_pcm_ops_t snd_mychip_playback_ops = {
.open =snd_mychip_playback_open,
.close = snd_mychip_playback_close,
[...]
};
But OTOH they were called *pcm* instead of *playback*:
static int snd_mychip_pcm_open(snd_pcm_substream_t *subs) {}
another typo: subs has to be substream.
martin
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[Alsa-devel] OpenAL- ALSA advanced features hardware support update.
Hi, I updated my ALSA- OpenAL interface proposal, taking into account some suggestions i have received, and some further investigations, specially on the side of OpenAL. Take a look at: http://galadriel.mat.utfsm.cl/~mjander/aureal/alsa/OpenAL-ALSA.txt AFAIK, the linux OpenAL port was not designed taken any hardware support into account. Things that go against my goals are: - OpenAL only uses one single ALSA substream. There is no substream management (must be added). - OpenAL is not hardware mixing aware. - OpenAL ALSA structs must be changed to integrate hardware context data. Things that are favorable: - As far as i dug into OpenAL, it seems that all source buffer processing is done in one single place (_alMixSources). Replacing this call for hardware assisted sources seems feasible. The same as for the first iteration of this proposal, please take some minutes and give some comments/suggestions back. I need feedback. Best Regards -- Manuel Jander mjander(at)users(dot)sourceforge(dot)net --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials. Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills. Sign up for IBM's Free Linux Tutorials. Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin. Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1278alloc_id=3371op=click ___ Alsa-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-devel
Re: [Alsa-devel] OpenAL- ALSA advanced features hardware support update.
(Oops. Sent privately unintentionally; resending to the list.) On Sun, Dec 21, 2003 at 11:24:00PM -0400, Manuel Jander wrote: The same as for the first iteration of this proposal, please take some minutes and give some comments/suggestions back. I need feedback. I'll give some higher level feedback: Why OpenAL? I looked at it about a year ago, while rewriting the sound system for a game with relatively strict sound demands. (StepMania; we wanted hardware mixing, when possible, and sound-to-gameplay sync to be as tight as possible, within a couple ms). I couldn't find any active mailing lists. I couldn't even find any indication that anyone was working on it at all. I read some of the Windows source code, and saw what is--without exaggeration--some of the most heinous, seizure-inducing code I've ever seen. (There were conditionals and loops nested something like 12 levels deep. I don't think the programmer understood the concept of the return keyword.) And although the API was decent to look at, it had no way of getting an accurate hardware play cursor, or any other mechanism to get a good idea of the currently-playing sample (for eg. graphical sync). We couldn't reliably sync sound with any smaller resolution than a whole buffer. I don't think OpenAL has a future. Do you really want to invest your time in it? -- Glenn Maynard --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials. Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills. Sign up for IBM's Free Linux Tutorials. Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin. Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1278alloc_id=3371op=click ___ Alsa-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-devel
Re: [Alsa-devel] OpenAL- ALSA advanced features hardware support update.
On Sun, 2003-12-21 at 22:38, Glenn Maynard wrote: On Sun, Dec 21, 2003 at 11:24:00PM -0400, Manuel Jander wrote: The same as for the first iteration of this proposal, please take some minutes and give some comments/suggestions back. I need feedback. I'll give some higher level feedback: Why OpenAL? Do you know about any other alternative ?? I don't. I looked at it about a year ago, while rewriting the sound system for a game with relatively strict sound demands. (StepMania; we wanted hardware mixing, when possible, and sound-to-gameplay sync to be as tight as possible, within a couple ms). I couldn't find any active mailing lists. I couldn't even find any indication that anyone was working on it at all. I read some of the Windows source code, and saw what is--without exaggeration--some of the most heinous, seizure-inducing code I've ever seen. (There were conditionals and loops nested something like 12 levels deep. I don't think the programmer understood the concept of the return keyword.) And although the API was decent to look at, it had no way of getting an accurate hardware play cursor, or any other mechanism to get a good idea of the currently-playing sample (for eg. graphical sync). We couldn't reliably sync sound with any smaller resolution than a whole buffer. I don't think OpenAL has a future. Do you really want to invest your time in it? I agree that the implementation isn't the best. But its not about the particular implementation. Its about standards. If you look at OpenAL, its mostly a imitation of Aureals A3D. Some name changed, but in essence just like A3D, most of its look and feel (of the API) has been borrowed from OpenGL. For know i don't have the time to write a new library and pretend it to be adopted widespread by others. If we support OpenAL, the implementation may be improved, once it is working. Best Regards. Manuel Jander --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials. Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills. Sign up for IBM's Free Linux Tutorials. Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin. Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1278alloc_id=3371op=click ___ Alsa-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-devel
Re: [Alsa-devel] OpenAL- ALSA advanced features hardware support update.
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 02:27 pm, Glenn Maynard wrote: ... I don't think OpenAL has a future. Do you really want to invest your time in it? From the linked text... OpenAL is useful mostly for games and multimedia where you want 3D positional audio to be rendered in a realistic fashion. Some soundcards provide various speakers to do so, others use special filters to simulate the direction where the sound comes from. The latter works specially good using headphones. OpenAL is like DirectSound3D and EAX but cross platform. Q: what is an alternative strategy if OpenAL is so useless ? --markc --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials. Become an expert in LINUX or just sharpen your skills. Sign up for IBM's Free Linux Tutorials. Learn everything from the bash shell to sys admin. Click now! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id78alloc_id371op=click ___ Alsa-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-devel
