Re: [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt
Hi Richard, Thank you for the feedback in detail! We will start to investigate the related work (e.g., MOWIE, use cases, Yaxiong's W1 paper, etc.) and try to write such a survey soon. On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 3:52 PM Y. Richard Yang wrote: > Hi Zili, > > Thanks for the quick feedback! Please see below. > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 12:18 PM Zili Meng wrote: > >> Hi Richard and all, >> >> Thanks for bringing this up! >> >> Sure we'll be very happy if we could contribute to the IETF and the alto >> group on how to feedback the network conditions (e.g., cellular >> information) to the application (the sender). And I also feel that a survey >> and a case study would be very helpful to sort out what we need in the >> scope of alto. >> > > It looks that we are in agreement :-) I did a preliminary search, but do > not see a systematic survey. Such a survey can be an ietf work or an > independent work as a paper. We can wait for the guidance from the WG > chairs or AD. > > As a starting point, I can see that the survey should include not only the > distribution methods (D-* in the previous email), which are potential > solutions, but also > - a list of benchmarking settings, including triggering events, such as > the bandwidth fluctuations that your work addresses; > > - a list of use-case restriction or required features, such as > authentication (restriction), and carrier aggregation, which motivates the > W1 work; > > - a list of performance metrics and their requirements, including those > application metrics and requirements discussed in MOWIE, and network > metrics (e.g., active users) and the requirements on their delivery by the > information channel. > > >> Unfortunately I may not be able to attend the alto meeting in IETF 114. >> > > No problem at all. Email is a good starting point. > > Do you feel it would be better if we first prepare some writeups or drafts >> for the C2 (send the network conditions back to the sender)? We could then >> bring writeups back on the design space and / or the use cases so that we >> can have something to discuss with. >> > > Yes. See above. Let’s write the draft soon. > > Richard > >> > > >> A preprint of the W2 paper is available at >> https://zilimeng.com/papers/zhuge-sigcomm22.pdf for your information. >> We'll also be highly appreciated if there are any comments or feedback. >> >> On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 1:46 PM Y. Richard Yang >> wrote: >> >>> Hi ALTO WG, >>> >>> During the weekly meeting today, the design team discussed about the >>> document, and suggested that the authors update the WG on a new version of >>> the MOWIE draft, which was uploaded last week and focuses on cellular >>> network information exposure to network-aware applications. The links to >>> the new version and the diff showing the updates can be found below. Any >>> comments, feedback, or interests in working together are welcome and >>> greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Using this email, we also want to include that there are two quite >>> relevant pieces of work: >>> W1. PBE-CC: Congestion Control via Endpoint-Centric, Physical-Layer >>> Bandwidth Measurements (https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.03475), by Yaxiong >>> Xie, Prof. Jamieson, and Prof. Rexford; >>> W2. Achieving Consistent Low Latency for Wireless Real-Time >>> Communications with the Shortest Control Loop (paper to be made public >>> soon), by Zili, and Prof. Mingwei and team. >>> >>> It helps to use this email to point out a bigger picture of the problem >>> space and related work. One perspective is that the problem space consists >>> of 3 components: >>> C1. What cellular-network information should be collected to be sent to >>> the applications? >>> C2. How is the cellular information sent to the applications? >>> C3. How do the applications use the information? >>> >>> It is important to note that the full exploration of the problem space >>> is not included in the current charter. However, this is an important >>> problem space and hence it helps to keep track of the progress and >>> potential impacts on ALTO. >>> >>> For C1, the impact will be the list of performance metrics. For C3, the >>> current ALTO charter does not include items to define application >>> behaviors, but it can be a point of discussion related to deployment. >>> >>> The most relevant component is C2. We discussed the following design >>> points for C2: >>> D-broadcast: network broadcasts its state >>> D-pass-bounce: network marks its state on pass-through packets and the >>> receiver bounces the state back to the sender >>> D-direct-send: network sends its state to app directly >>> Here by state it can be transformed state. >>> >>> Current ALTO is designed as D-direct-send. Due to lacking of deployment >>> of D-direct-send in cellular network, aforementioned W1 uses D-broadcast; >>> the D-pass-bounce design need at least a round trip time and couples >>> network feedback flow with data flow, leading to the aforementioned W2 work. >>> >>> Many of us feel that the
Re: [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt
Hi Zili, Thanks for the quick feedback! Please see below. On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 12:18 PM Zili Meng wrote: > Hi Richard and all, > > Thanks for bringing this up! > > Sure we'll be very happy if we could contribute to the IETF and the alto > group on how to feedback the network conditions (e.g., cellular > information) to the application (the sender). And I also feel that a survey > and a case study would be very helpful to sort out what we need in the > scope of alto. > It looks that we are in agreement :-) I did a preliminary search, but do not see a systematic survey. Such a survey can be an ietf work or an independent work as a paper. We can wait for the guidance from the WG chairs or AD. As a starting point, I can see that the survey should include not only the distribution methods (D-* in the previous email), which are potential solutions, but also - a list of benchmarking settings, including triggering events, such as the bandwidth fluctuations that your work addresses; - a list of use-case restriction or required features, such as authentication (restriction), and carrier aggregation, which motivates the W1 work; - a list of performance metrics and their requirements, including those application metrics and requirements discussed in MOWIE, and network metrics (e.g., active users) and the requirements on their delivery by the information channel. > Unfortunately I may not be able to attend the alto meeting in IETF 114. > No problem at all. Email is a good starting point. Do you feel it would be better if we first prepare some writeups or drafts > for the C2 (send the network conditions back to the sender)? We could then > bring writeups back on the design space and / or the use cases so that we > can have something to discuss with. > Yes. See above. Let’s write the draft soon. Richard > > A preprint of the W2 paper is available at > https://zilimeng.com/papers/zhuge-sigcomm22.pdf for your information. > We'll also be highly appreciated if there are any comments or feedback. > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 1:46 PM Y. Richard Yang > wrote: > >> Hi ALTO WG, >> >> During the weekly meeting today, the design team discussed about the >> document, and suggested that the authors update the WG on a new version of >> the MOWIE draft, which was uploaded last week and focuses on cellular >> network information exposure to network-aware applications. The links to >> the new version and the diff showing the updates can be found below. Any >> comments, feedback, or interests in working together are welcome and >> greatly appreciated. >> >> Using this email, we also want to include that there are two quite >> relevant pieces of work: >> W1. PBE-CC: Congestion Control via Endpoint-Centric, Physical-Layer >> Bandwidth Measurements (https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.03475), by Yaxiong >> Xie, Prof. Jamieson, and Prof. Rexford; >> W2. Achieving Consistent Low Latency for Wireless Real-Time >> Communications with the Shortest Control Loop (paper to be made public >> soon), by Zili, and Prof. Mingwei and team. >> >> It helps to use this email to point out a bigger picture of the problem >> space and related work. One perspective is that the problem space consists >> of 3 components: >> C1. What cellular-network information should be collected to be sent to >> the applications? >> C2. How is the cellular information sent to the applications? >> C3. How do the applications use the information? >> >> It is important to note that the full exploration of the problem space is >> not included in the current charter. However, this is an important problem >> space and hence it helps to keep track of the progress and potential >> impacts on ALTO. >> >> For C1, the impact will be the list of performance metrics. For C3, the >> current ALTO charter does not include items to define application >> behaviors, but it can be a point of discussion related to deployment. >> >> The most relevant component is C2. We discussed the following design >> points for C2: >> D-broadcast: network broadcasts its state >> D-pass-bounce: network marks its state on pass-through packets and the >> receiver bounces the state back to the sender >> D-direct-send: network sends its state to app directly >> Here by state it can be transformed state. >> >> Current ALTO is designed as D-direct-send. Due to lacking of deployment >> of D-direct-send in cellular network, aforementioned W1 uses D-broadcast; >> the D-pass-bounce design need at least a round trip time and couples >> network feedback flow with data flow, leading to the aforementioned W2 work. >> >> Many of us feel that the time is ready for introducing a highly >> efficient, flexible channel for network state exposure to applications, led >> by IETF, and the ALTO team can be a good starting point. As a first step, a >> systematic evaluation, which (1) surveys the design space and (2) >> introduces the use cases/benchmarking scenarios, can be a good starting >> point. >> >> If there is time avai
Re: [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt
Hi Richard and all, Thanks for bringing this up! Sure we'll be very happy if we could contribute to the IETF and the alto group on how to feedback the network conditions (e.g., cellular information) to the application (the sender). And I also feel that a survey and a case study would be very helpful to sort out what we need in the scope of alto. Unfortunately I may not be able to attend the alto meeting in IETF 114. Do you feel it would be better if we first prepare some writeups or drafts for the C2 (send the network conditions back to the sender)? We could then bring writeups back on the design space and / or the use cases so that we can have something to discuss with. A preprint of the W2 paper is available at https://zilimeng.com/papers/zhuge-sigcomm22.pdf for your information. We'll also be highly appreciated if there are any comments or feedback. On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 1:46 PM Y. Richard Yang wrote: > Hi ALTO WG, > > During the weekly meeting today, the design team discussed about the > document, and suggested that the authors update the WG on a new version of > the MOWIE draft, which was uploaded last week and focuses on cellular > network information exposure to network-aware applications. The links to > the new version and the diff showing the updates can be found below. Any > comments, feedback, or interests in working together are welcome and > greatly appreciated. > > Using this email, we also want to include that there are two quite > relevant pieces of work: > W1. PBE-CC: Congestion Control via Endpoint-Centric, Physical-Layer > Bandwidth Measurements (https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.03475), by Yaxiong > Xie, Prof. Jamieson, and Prof. Rexford; > W2. Achieving Consistent Low Latency for Wireless Real-Time Communications > with the Shortest Control Loop (paper to be made public soon), by Zili, and > Prof. Mingwei and team. > > It helps to use this email to point out a bigger picture of the problem > space and related work. One perspective is that the problem space consists > of 3 components: > C1. What cellular-network information should be collected to be sent to > the applications? > C2. How is the cellular information sent to the applications? > C3. How do the applications use the information? > > It is important to note that the full exploration of the problem space is > not included in the current charter. However, this is an important problem > space and hence it helps to keep track of the progress and potential > impacts on ALTO. > > For C1, the impact will be the list of performance metrics. For C3, the > current ALTO charter does not include items to define application > behaviors, but it can be a point of discussion related to deployment. > > The most relevant component is C2. We discussed the following design > points for C2: > D-broadcast: network broadcasts its state > D-pass-bounce: network marks its state on pass-through packets and the > receiver bounces the state back to the sender > D-direct-send: network sends its state to app directly > Here by state it can be transformed state. > > Current ALTO is designed as D-direct-send. Due to lacking of deployment of > D-direct-send in cellular network, aforementioned W1 uses D-broadcast; the > D-pass-bounce design need at least a round trip time and couples network > feedback flow with data flow, leading to the aforementioned W2 work. > > Many of us feel that the time is ready for introducing a highly efficient, > flexible channel for network state exposure to applications, led by IETF, > and the ALTO team can be a good starting point. As a first step, a > systematic evaluation, which (1) surveys the design space and (2) > introduces the use cases/benchmarking scenarios, can be a good starting > point. > > If there is time available in the coming 114 meeting, we can discuss more > during the presentation. Otherwise, on-list discussion is a good starting > point. We will follow up with more analysis on the list soon but use this > email to get the conversation started. > > Thanks, > > Richard on behalf of Tuesday meeting team > > > > -- Forwarded message - > From: > Date: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 2:14 PM > Subject: New Version Notification for > draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt > To: Y. Richard Yang , Gang Li < > ligan...@chinamobile.com>, Sabine Randriamasy < > sabine.randriam...@nokia-bell-labs.com>, Yixue Lei , > Yuhang Jia , Yunbo Han , > Yunfei Zhang > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt > has been successfully submitted by Y. Richard Yang and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app > Revision: 04 > Title: MoWIE for Network Aware Applications > Document date: 2022-07-11 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 25 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-huang-a
Re: [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt
Re-, Thank you, Yixue. BTW, as part of your SoA you may consider listing (analyzing?) some proposals that were made in the past to address similar issues, e.g., * https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-sprecher-mobile-tg-exposure-req-arch-03 * https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-flinck-mobile-throughput-guidance-04 cheers, Med De : Lei Yixue Envoyé : mercredi 20 juillet 2022 10:37 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET Cc : Y. Richard Yang ; IETF ALTO ; yanniszh...@tencent.com Objet : Re: [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt Dear Med and all, Thanks for the review and comments which gives some very good hints. We will analyze and incorporate in next version. If other experts have any further comments, please provide over either v04 or v04 plus Med's comments. We will take on board all comments together. Thanks a lot! Br, Yixue from Tencent mailto:mohamed.boucad...@orange.com>> 于2022年7月20日周三 15:40写道： Hi Eric, Richard, all, Thank you for sharing these details. FWIW, you may find some very few comments on the first part of the draft at: * pdf: https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/master/draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04-rev%20Med.pdf * doc: https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/master/draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04-rev%20Med.doc Cheers, Med De : Eric mailto:kinderboy2...@gmail.com>> Envoyé : mercredi 20 juillet 2022 04:13 À : Y. Richard Yang mailto:yang.r.y...@yale.edu>> Cc : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET mailto:mohamed.boucad...@orange.com>>; IETF ALTO mailto:alto@ietf.org>> Objet : Re: [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt Hi Richard and Med, This is Yixue from Tencent who works in 3GPP for 15 years but new to IETF.___^ . But actually from years ago, even in my Ph. D study, I like reading some IETF and IRTF drafts and several years ago,I have noticed ALTO WG in IETF as in Tencent my research and standard interests are focusing on how application and network could coordinate. Regarding to the Med's question on whether the proposed extensions are being discussed in 3GPP, let me try to give a brief answer. As we know, 3GPP has continuous efforts on network exposure even from 4G. In 5G, network exposure is a native feature and in Rel-17 and Rel-18 there are particular interest on how network exposure is utilized to optimized advanced interactive services (like cloud gaming, AR, VR etc). From our point of view, the main technical reason is that for these application, there are more challenges which require more collaboration between application layer and network layer to overcome. Just as we summarized in MoWIE draft 04, 3GPP and also ETSI are working on some mechanism to enable network exposure in a step-wise approach. Meanwhile, 3GPP is mainly focusing on standards within 5G system, in many cases, there is inevitable case that the application servers may be deployed at the data network outside 5G system gateway (i.e. UPF), to achieve end-to-end application optimization, have some corresponding standard work in IETF is also important from our view. To be more specific, by doing some cellular information exposing work in 3GPP, in addition to the parameters within 5G system, some 3GPP defined functionalities like AF, NEF, can have some ALTO related functions to support cellular network information exposure to applications. How application layer utilize the exposed information to optimize user experience is not standardized in 3GPP which I also think may be considered in IETF. I think this has been reflected by C1~C3 which Richard has listed in previous e-mail. Thanks a lot! Br, Yixue from Tencent Y. Richard Yang mailto:yang.r.y...@yale.edu>> 于2022年7月20日周三 04:02写道： Hi Med, There are some efforts in 3GPP; the mowie draft discussed related 3GPP efforts. I will let Tencent team (Yannis, Yixue, Yuhang) to give more info. I do not believe there are related efforts in W2; that is, shorten the feedback loop from passthrough-bounce to direct send. Zili can give an update. I see that we need coordination with 3GPP, and we will reach out to include those at 3GPP with related efforts and include them in the email thread. Is this you would suggest? Thanks! Richard On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 12:19 PM mailto:mohamed.boucad...@orange.com>> wrote: Hi Richard, Thanks for this information. Just out of curiosity, are the proposed extensions currently discussed in the 3GPP? Cheers, Med De : alto mailto:alto-boun...@ietf.org>> De la part de Y. Richard Yang Envoyé : mardi 19 juillet 2022 20:14 À : IETF ALTO mailto:alto@ietf.org>> Objet : [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Noti
Re: [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt
Dear Med and all, Thanks for the review and comments which gives some very good hints. We will analyze and incorporate in next version. If other experts have any further comments, please provide over either v04 or v04 plus Med's comments. We will take on board all comments together. Thanks a lot! Br, Yixue from Tencent 于2022年7月20日周三 15:40写道： > Hi Eric, Richard, all, > > > > Thank you for sharing these details. > > > > FWIW, you may find some very few comments on the first part of the draft > at: > > > >- pdf: > > https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/master/draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04-rev%20Med.pdf >- doc: > > https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/master/draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04-rev%20Med.doc > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > *De :* Eric > *Envoyé :* mercredi 20 juillet 2022 04:13 > *À :* Y. Richard Yang > *Cc :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET ; IETF > ALTO > *Objet :* Re: [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New > Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt > > > > Hi Richard and Med, > > > > This is Yixue from Tencent who works in 3GPP for 15 years but new to > IETF.___^ . But actually from years ago, even in my Ph. D study, I like > reading some IETF and IRTF drafts and several years ago,I have noticed > ALTO WG in IETF as in Tencent my research and standard interests are > focusing on how application and network could coordinate. > > > > Regarding to the Med's question on whether the proposed extensions are > being discussed in 3GPP, let me try to give a brief answer. > > > > As we know, 3GPP has continuous efforts on network exposure even from 4G. > In 5G, network exposure is a native feature and in Rel-17 and Rel-18 there > are particular interest on how network exposure is utilized to optimized > advanced interactive services (like cloud gaming, AR, VR etc). From our > point of view, the main technical reason is that for these application, > there are more challenges which require more collaboration between > application layer and network layer to overcome. Just as we summarized in > MoWIE draft 04, 3GPP and also ETSI are working on some mechanism to enable > network exposure in a step-wise approach. > > > > Meanwhile, 3GPP is mainly focusing on standards within 5G system, in many > cases, there is inevitable case that the application servers may be > deployed at the data network outside 5G system gateway (i.e. UPF), to > achieve end-to-end application optimization, have some corresponding > standard work in IETF is also important from our view. > > > > To be more specific, by doing some cellular information exposing work in > 3GPP, in addition to the parameters within 5G system, some 3GPP > defined functionalities like AF, NEF, can have some ALTO related functions > to support cellular network information exposure to applications. How > application layer utilize the exposed information to optimize user > experience is not standardized in 3GPP which I also think may be considered > in IETF. I think this has been reflected by C1~C3 which Richard has listed > in previous e-mail. > > > > Thanks a lot! > > Br, Yixue from Tencent > > > > Y. Richard Yang 于2022年7月20日周三 04:02写道： > > Hi Med, > > > > There are some efforts in 3GPP; the mowie draft discussed related 3GPP > efforts. I will let Tencent team (Yannis, Yixue, Yuhang) to give more info. > I do not believe there are related efforts in W2; that is, shorten the > feedback loop from passthrough-bounce to direct send. Zili can give an > update. I see that we need coordination with 3GPP, and we will reach out to > include those at 3GPP with related efforts and include them in the email > thread. Is this you would suggest? > > > > Thanks! > > Richard > > > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 12:19 PM wrote: > > Hi Richard, > > > > Thanks for this information. > > > > Just out of curiosity, are the proposed extensions currently discussed in > the 3GPP? > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > *De :* alto *De la part de* Y. Richard Yang > *Envoyé :* mardi 19 juillet 2022 20:14 > *À :* IETF ALTO > *Objet :* [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New > Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt > > > > > > Hi ALTO WG, > > > > During the weekly meeting today, the design team discussed about the > document, and suggested that the authors update the WG on a new version of > the MOWIE draft, which was uplo
Re: [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt
Hi Eric, Richard, all, Thank you for sharing these details. FWIW, you may find some very few comments on the first part of the draft at: * pdf: https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/master/draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04-rev%20Med.pdf * doc: https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/master/draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04-rev%20Med.doc Cheers, Med De : Eric Envoyé : mercredi 20 juillet 2022 04:13 À : Y. Richard Yang Cc : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET ; IETF ALTO Objet : Re: [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt Hi Richard and Med, This is Yixue from Tencent who works in 3GPP for 15 years but new to IETF.___^ . But actually from years ago, even in my Ph. D study, I like reading some IETF and IRTF drafts and several years ago,I have noticed ALTO WG in IETF as in Tencent my research and standard interests are focusing on how application and network could coordinate. Regarding to the Med's question on whether the proposed extensions are being discussed in 3GPP, let me try to give a brief answer. As we know, 3GPP has continuous efforts on network exposure even from 4G. In 5G, network exposure is a native feature and in Rel-17 and Rel-18 there are particular interest on how network exposure is utilized to optimized advanced interactive services (like cloud gaming, AR, VR etc). From our point of view, the main technical reason is that for these application, there are more challenges which require more collaboration between application layer and network layer to overcome. Just as we summarized in MoWIE draft 04, 3GPP and also ETSI are working on some mechanism to enable network exposure in a step-wise approach. Meanwhile, 3GPP is mainly focusing on standards within 5G system, in many cases, there is inevitable case that the application servers may be deployed at the data network outside 5G system gateway (i.e. UPF), to achieve end-to-end application optimization, have some corresponding standard work in IETF is also important from our view. To be more specific, by doing some cellular information exposing work in 3GPP, in addition to the parameters within 5G system, some 3GPP defined functionalities like AF, NEF, can have some ALTO related functions to support cellular network information exposure to applications. How application layer utilize the exposed information to optimize user experience is not standardized in 3GPP which I also think may be considered in IETF. I think this has been reflected by C1~C3 which Richard has listed in previous e-mail. Thanks a lot! Br, Yixue from Tencent Y. Richard Yang mailto:yang.r.y...@yale.edu>> 于2022年7月20日周三 04:02写道： Hi Med, There are some efforts in 3GPP; the mowie draft discussed related 3GPP efforts. I will let Tencent team (Yannis, Yixue, Yuhang) to give more info. I do not believe there are related efforts in W2; that is, shorten the feedback loop from passthrough-bounce to direct send. Zili can give an update. I see that we need coordination with 3GPP, and we will reach out to include those at 3GPP with related efforts and include them in the email thread. Is this you would suggest? Thanks! Richard On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 12:19 PM mailto:mohamed.boucad...@orange.com>> wrote: Hi Richard, Thanks for this information. Just out of curiosity, are the proposed extensions currently discussed in the 3GPP? Cheers, Med De : alto mailto:alto-boun...@ietf.org>> De la part de Y. Richard Yang Envoyé : mardi 19 juillet 2022 20:14 À : IETF ALTO mailto:alto@ietf.org>> Objet : [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt Hi ALTO WG, During the weekly meeting today, the design team discussed about the document, and suggested that the authors update the WG on a new version of the MOWIE draft, which was uploaded last week and focuses on cellular network information exposure to network-aware applications. The links to the new version and the diff showing the updates can be found below. Any comments, feedback, or interests in working together are welcome and greatly appreciated. Using this email, we also want to include that there are two quite relevant pieces of work: W1. PBE-CC: Congestion Control via Endpoint-Centric, Physical-Layer Bandwidth Measurements (https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.03475), by Yaxiong Xie, Prof. Jamieson, and Prof. Rexford; W2. Achieving Consistent Low Latency for Wireless Real-Time Communications with the Shortest Control Loop (paper to be made public soon), by Zili, and Prof. Mingwei and team. It helps to use this email to point out a bigger picture of the problem space and related work. One perspective is that the problem space consists of 3 components: C1. What cellular-network information should b
Re: [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt
Hi Qin， For TS 23.501, TS 29.522, there have been latest version as follows and "h" means version 17. All of them have been approved by 3GPP plenary in June 2022 thus can be considered stable. https://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/23_series/23.501/23501-h50.zip https://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/29_series/29.522/29522-h60.zip Regarding to how ALTO related to NEF or AF, I think NEF or AF is entity which can receive the exposed cellular network parameters (which is also the concern of current MoWIE draft). Whether NEF or AF can act as ALTO client or server, which is up to IETF to study and there is not constraints from 3GPP specs you listed. If NEF or AF can act as ALTO client, ALTO server maybe deployed in other place instead of the figure you pasted. These are quite much related to ALTO protocol design and I would like to hear more views and guidance from ALTO experts:-) Thanks a lot! Br, Yixue from Tencent Qin Wu 于2022年7月20日周三 11:57写道： > Richard, Yiyue: > > I think two relevant 3GPP standard are 3GPP TS 23.501 version 15.3.0 > release 15, 3GPP TS 29.522 version 15.3.0 release 15, In 3GPP TS 23.501, > there is NEF architecture, > > N33 is specified by 3GPP TS 29.522, for C2 component, my impression, it > seems relevant to 3GPP interface in the above figure, might be not. > > So we need to understand how ALTO is related NEF N33 interface? Is ALTO > one of N33 implementation? Where ALTO server is placed in this figure? > > > > -Qin > > *发件人:* alto [mailto:alto-boun...@ietf.org] *代表 *Eric > *发送时间:* 2022年7月20日 10:13 > *收件人:* Y. Richard Yang > *抄送:* IETF ALTO > *主题:* Re: [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New > Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt > > > > Hi Richard and Med, > > > > This is Yixue from Tencent who works in 3GPP for 15 years but new to > IETF.___^ . But actually from years ago, even in my Ph. D study, I like > reading some IETF and IRTF drafts and several years ago,I have noticed > ALTO WG in IETF as in Tencent my research and standard interests are > focusing on how application and network could coordinate. > > > > Regarding to the Med's question on whether the proposed extensions are > being discussed in 3GPP, let me try to give a brief answer. > > > > As we know, 3GPP has continuous efforts on network exposure even from 4G. > In 5G, network exposure is a native feature and in Rel-17 and Rel-18 there > are particular interest on how network exposure is utilized to optimized > advanced interactive services (like cloud gaming, AR, VR etc). From our > point of view, the main technical reason is that for these application, > there are more challenges which require more collaboration between > application layer and network layer to overcome. Just as we summarized in > MoWIE draft 04, 3GPP and also ETSI are working on some mechanism to enable > network exposure in a step-wise approach. > > > > Meanwhile, 3GPP is mainly focusing on standards within 5G system, in many > cases, there is inevitable case that the application servers may be > deployed at the data network outside 5G system gateway (i.e. UPF), to > achieve end-to-end application optimization, have some corresponding > standard work in IETF is also important from our view. > > > > To be more specific, by doing some cellular information exposing work in > 3GPP, in addition to the parameters within 5G system, some 3GPP > defined functionalities like AF, NEF, can have some ALTO related functions > to support cellular network information exposure to applications. How > application layer utilize the exposed information to optimize user > experience is not standardized in 3GPP which I also think may be considered > in IETF. I think this has been reflected by C1~C3 which Richard has listed > in previous e-mail. > > > > Thanks a lot! > > Br, Yixue from Tencent > > > > Y. Richard Yang 于2022年7月20日周三 04:02写道： > > Hi Med, > > > > There are some efforts in 3GPP; the mowie draft discussed related 3GPP > efforts. I will let Tencent team (Yannis, Yixue, Yuhang) to give more info. > I do not believe there are related efforts in W2; that is, shorten the > feedback loop from passthrough-bounce to direct send. Zili can give an > update. I see that we need coordination with 3GPP, and we will reach out to > include those at 3GPP with related efforts and include them in the email > thread. Is this you would suggest? > > > > Thanks! > > Richard > > > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 12:19 PM wrote: > > Hi Richard, > > > > Thanks for this information. > > > > Just out of curiosity, are the proposed extensions currently discussed in >
Re: [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt
Richard, Yiyue: I think two relevant 3GPP standard are 3GPP TS 23.501 version 15.3.0 release 15, 3GPP TS 29.522 version 15.3.0 release 15, In 3GPP TS 23.501, there is NEF architecture, [cid:image001.png@01D89C2F.D57B1940] N33 is specified by 3GPP TS 29.522, for C2 component, my impression, it seems relevant to 3GPP interface in the above figure, might be not. So we need to understand how ALTO is related NEF N33 interface? Is ALTO one of N33 implementation? Where ALTO server is placed in this figure? -Qin 发件人: alto [mailto:alto-boun...@ietf.org] 代表 Eric 发送时间: 2022年7月20日 10:13 收件人: Y. Richard Yang 抄送: IETF ALTO 主题: Re: [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt Hi Richard and Med, This is Yixue from Tencent who works in 3GPP for 15 years but new to IETF.___^ . But actually from years ago, even in my Ph. D study, I like reading some IETF and IRTF drafts and several years ago,I have noticed ALTO WG in IETF as in Tencent my research and standard interests are focusing on how application and network could coordinate. Regarding to the Med's question on whether the proposed extensions are being discussed in 3GPP, let me try to give a brief answer. As we know, 3GPP has continuous efforts on network exposure even from 4G. In 5G, network exposure is a native feature and in Rel-17 and Rel-18 there are particular interest on how network exposure is utilized to optimized advanced interactive services (like cloud gaming, AR, VR etc). From our point of view, the main technical reason is that for these application, there are more challenges which require more collaboration between application layer and network layer to overcome. Just as we summarized in MoWIE draft 04, 3GPP and also ETSI are working on some mechanism to enable network exposure in a step-wise approach. Meanwhile, 3GPP is mainly focusing on standards within 5G system, in many cases, there is inevitable case that the application servers may be deployed at the data network outside 5G system gateway (i.e. UPF), to achieve end-to-end application optimization, have some corresponding standard work in IETF is also important from our view. To be more specific, by doing some cellular information exposing work in 3GPP, in addition to the parameters within 5G system, some 3GPP defined functionalities like AF, NEF, can have some ALTO related functions to support cellular network information exposure to applications. How application layer utilize the exposed information to optimize user experience is not standardized in 3GPP which I also think may be considered in IETF. I think this has been reflected by C1~C3 which Richard has listed in previous e-mail. Thanks a lot! Br, Yixue from Tencent Y. Richard Yang mailto:yang.r.y...@yale.edu>> 于2022年7月20日周三 04:02写道： Hi Med, There are some efforts in 3GPP; the mowie draft discussed related 3GPP efforts. I will let Tencent team (Yannis, Yixue, Yuhang) to give more info. I do not believe there are related efforts in W2; that is, shorten the feedback loop from passthrough-bounce to direct send. Zili can give an update. I see that we need coordination with 3GPP, and we will reach out to include those at 3GPP with related efforts and include them in the email thread. Is this you would suggest? Thanks! Richard On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 12:19 PM mailto:mohamed.boucad...@orange.com>> wrote: Hi Richard, Thanks for this information. Just out of curiosity, are the proposed extensions currently discussed in the 3GPP? Cheers, Med De : alto mailto:alto-boun...@ietf.org>> De la part de Y. Richard Yang Envoyé : mardi 19 juillet 2022 20:14 À : IETF ALTO mailto:alto@ietf.org>> Objet : [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt Hi ALTO WG, During the weekly meeting today, the design team discussed about the document, and suggested that the authors update the WG on a new version of the MOWIE draft, which was uploaded last week and focuses on cellular network information exposure to network-aware applications. The links to the new version and the diff showing the updates can be found below. Any comments, feedback, or interests in working together are welcome and greatly appreciated. Using this email, we also want to include that there are two quite relevant pieces of work: W1. PBE-CC: Congestion Control via Endpoint-Centric, Physical-Layer Bandwidth Measurements (https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.03475), by Yaxiong Xie, Prof. Jamieson, and Prof. Rexford; W2. Achieving Consistent Low Latency for Wireless Real-Time Communications with the Shortest Control Loop (paper to be made public soon), by Zili, and Prof. Mingwei and team. It helps to use this email to point out a bigger picture of the problem space and related work. One perspective is that the problem space
Re: [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt
Hi Richard and Med, This is Yixue from Tencent who works in 3GPP for 15 years but new to IETF.___^ . But actually from years ago, even in my Ph. D study, I like reading some IETF and IRTF drafts and several years ago,I have noticed ALTO WG in IETF as in Tencent my research and standard interests are focusing on how application and network could coordinate. Regarding to the Med's question on whether the proposed extensions are being discussed in 3GPP, let me try to give a brief answer. As we know, 3GPP has continuous efforts on network exposure even from 4G. In 5G, network exposure is a native feature and in Rel-17 and Rel-18 there are particular interest on how network exposure is utilized to optimized advanced interactive services (like cloud gaming, AR, VR etc). From our point of view, the main technical reason is that for these application, there are more challenges which require more collaboration between application layer and network layer to overcome. Just as we summarized in MoWIE draft 04, 3GPP and also ETSI are working on some mechanism to enable network exposure in a step-wise approach. Meanwhile, 3GPP is mainly focusing on standards within 5G system, in many cases, there is inevitable case that the application servers may be deployed at the data network outside 5G system gateway (i.e. UPF), to achieve end-to-end application optimization, have some corresponding standard work in IETF is also important from our view. To be more specific, by doing some cellular information exposing work in 3GPP, in addition to the parameters within 5G system, some 3GPP defined functionalities like AF, NEF, can have some ALTO related functions to support cellular network information exposure to applications. How application layer utilize the exposed information to optimize user experience is not standardized in 3GPP which I also think may be considered in IETF. I think this has been reflected by C1~C3 which Richard has listed in previous e-mail. Thanks a lot! Br, Yixue from Tencent Y. Richard Yang 于2022年7月20日周三 04:02写道： > Hi Med, > > There are some efforts in 3GPP; the mowie draft discussed related 3GPP > efforts. I will let Tencent team (Yannis, Yixue, Yuhang) to give more info. > I do not believe there are related efforts in W2; that is, shorten the > feedback loop from passthrough-bounce to direct send. Zili can give an > update. I see that we need coordination with 3GPP, and we will reach out to > include those at 3GPP with related efforts and include them in the email > thread. Is this you would suggest? > > Thanks! > Richard > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 12:19 PM wrote: > >> Hi Richard, >> >> >> >> Thanks for this information. >> >> >> >> Just out of curiosity, are the proposed extensions currently discussed in >> the 3GPP? >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Med >> >> >> >> *De :* alto *De la part de* Y. Richard Yang >> *Envoyé :* mardi 19 juillet 2022 20:14 >> *À :* IETF ALTO >> *Objet :* [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New >> Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi ALTO WG, >> >> >> >> During the weekly meeting today, the design team discussed about the >> document, and suggested that the authors update the WG on a new version of >> the MOWIE draft, which was uploaded last week and focuses on cellular >> network information exposure to network-aware applications. The links to >> the new version and the diff showing the updates can be found below. Any >> comments, feedback, or interests in working together are welcome and >> greatly appreciated. >> >> >> >> Using this email, we also want to include that there are two quite >> relevant pieces of work: >> W1. PBE-CC: Congestion Control via Endpoint-Centric, Physical-Layer >> Bandwidth Measurements (https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.03475), by Yaxiong >> Xie, Prof. Jamieson, and Prof. Rexford; >> >> W2. Achieving Consistent Low Latency for Wireless Real-Time >> Communications with the Shortest Control Loop (paper to be made public >> soon), by Zili, and Prof. Mingwei and team. >> >> >> >> It helps to use this email to point out a bigger picture of the problem >> space and related work. One perspective is that the problem space consists >> of 3 components: >> >> C1. What cellular-network information should be collected to be sent to >> the applications? >> >> C2. How is the cellular information sent to the applications? >> >> C3. How do the applications use the information? >> >> >> >> It is important to note that the ful
Re: [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt
Hi Med, There are some efforts in 3GPP; the mowie draft discussed related 3GPP efforts. I will let Tencent team (Yannis, Yixue, Yuhang) to give more info. I do not believe there are related efforts in W2; that is, shorten the feedback loop from passthrough-bounce to direct send. Zili can give an update. I see that we need coordination with 3GPP, and we will reach out to include those at 3GPP with related efforts and include them in the email thread. Is this you would suggest? Thanks! Richard On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 12:19 PM wrote: > Hi Richard, > > > > Thanks for this information. > > > > Just out of curiosity, are the proposed extensions currently discussed in > the 3GPP? > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > *De :* alto *De la part de* Y. Richard Yang > *Envoyé :* mardi 19 juillet 2022 20:14 > *À :* IETF ALTO > *Objet :* [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New > Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt > > > > > > Hi ALTO WG, > > > > During the weekly meeting today, the design team discussed about the > document, and suggested that the authors update the WG on a new version of > the MOWIE draft, which was uploaded last week and focuses on cellular > network information exposure to network-aware applications. The links to > the new version and the diff showing the updates can be found below. Any > comments, feedback, or interests in working together are welcome and > greatly appreciated. > > > > Using this email, we also want to include that there are two quite > relevant pieces of work: > W1. PBE-CC: Congestion Control via Endpoint-Centric, Physical-Layer > Bandwidth Measurements (https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.03475), by Yaxiong > Xie, Prof. Jamieson, and Prof. Rexford; > > W2. Achieving Consistent Low Latency for Wireless Real-Time Communications > with the Shortest Control Loop (paper to be made public soon), by Zili, and > Prof. Mingwei and team. > > > > It helps to use this email to point out a bigger picture of the problem > space and related work. One perspective is that the problem space consists > of 3 components: > > C1. What cellular-network information should be collected to be sent to > the applications? > > C2. How is the cellular information sent to the applications? > > C3. How do the applications use the information? > > > > It is important to note that the full exploration of the problem space is > not included in the current charter. However, this is an important problem > space and hence it helps to keep track of the progress and potential > impacts on ALTO. > > > > For C1, the impact will be the list of performance metrics. For C3, the > current ALTO charter does not include items to define application > behaviors, but it can be a point of discussion related to deployment. > > > > The most relevant component is C2. We discussed the following design > points for C2: > > D-broadcast: network broadcasts its state > > D-pass-bounce: network marks its state on pass-through packets and the > receiver bounces the state back to the sender > > D-direct-send: network sends its state to app directly > > Here by state it can be transformed state. > > > > Current ALTO is designed as D-direct-send. Due to lacking of deployment of > D-direct-send in cellular network, aforementioned W1 uses D-broadcast; the > D-pass-bounce design need at least a round trip time and couples network > feedback flow with data flow, leading to the aforementioned W2 work. > > > > Many of us feel that the time is ready for introducing a highly efficient, > flexible channel for network state exposure to applications, led by IETF, > and the ALTO team can be a good starting point. As a first step, a > systematic evaluation, which (1) surveys the design space and (2) > introduces the use cases/benchmarking scenarios, can be a good starting > point. > > > > If there is time available in the coming 114 meeting, we can discuss more > during the presentation. Otherwise, on-list discussion is a good starting > point. We will follow up with more analysis on the list soon but use this > email to get the conversation started. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Richard on behalf of Tuesday meeting team > > > > > > > > -- Forwarded message - > From: > Date: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 2:14 PM > Subject: New Version Notification for > draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt > To: Y. Richard Yang , Gang Li < > ligan...@chinamobile.com>, Sabine Randriamasy < > sabine.randriam...@nokia-bell-labs.com>, Yixue Lei , > Yuhang Jia , Yunbo Han , > Y
Re: [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt
Hi Richard, Thanks for this information. Just out of curiosity, are the proposed extensions currently discussed in the 3GPP? Cheers, Med De : alto De la part de Y. Richard Yang Envoyé : mardi 19 juillet 2022 20:14 À : IETF ALTO Objet : [alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt Hi ALTO WG, During the weekly meeting today, the design team discussed about the document, and suggested that the authors update the WG on a new version of the MOWIE draft, which was uploaded last week and focuses on cellular network information exposure to network-aware applications. The links to the new version and the diff showing the updates can be found below. Any comments, feedback, or interests in working together are welcome and greatly appreciated. Using this email, we also want to include that there are two quite relevant pieces of work: W1. PBE-CC: Congestion Control via Endpoint-Centric, Physical-Layer Bandwidth Measurements (https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.03475), by Yaxiong Xie, Prof. Jamieson, and Prof. Rexford; W2. Achieving Consistent Low Latency for Wireless Real-Time Communications with the Shortest Control Loop (paper to be made public soon), by Zili, and Prof. Mingwei and team. It helps to use this email to point out a bigger picture of the problem space and related work. One perspective is that the problem space consists of 3 components: C1. What cellular-network information should be collected to be sent to the applications? C2. How is the cellular information sent to the applications? C3. How do the applications use the information? It is important to note that the full exploration of the problem space is not included in the current charter. However, this is an important problem space and hence it helps to keep track of the progress and potential impacts on ALTO. For C1, the impact will be the list of performance metrics. For C3, the current ALTO charter does not include items to define application behaviors, but it can be a point of discussion related to deployment. The most relevant component is C2. We discussed the following design points for C2: D-broadcast: network broadcasts its state D-pass-bounce: network marks its state on pass-through packets and the receiver bounces the state back to the sender D-direct-send: network sends its state to app directly Here by state it can be transformed state. Current ALTO is designed as D-direct-send. Due to lacking of deployment of D-direct-send in cellular network, aforementioned W1 uses D-broadcast; the D-pass-bounce design need at least a round trip time and couples network feedback flow with data flow, leading to the aforementioned W2 work. Many of us feel that the time is ready for introducing a highly efficient, flexible channel for network state exposure to applications, led by IETF, and the ALTO team can be a good starting point. As a first step, a systematic evaluation, which (1) surveys the design space and (2) introduces the use cases/benchmarking scenarios, can be a good starting point. If there is time available in the coming 114 meeting, we can discuss more during the presentation. Otherwise, on-list discussion is a good starting point. We will follow up with more analysis on the list soon but use this email to get the conversation started. Thanks, Richard on behalf of Tuesday meeting team -- Forwarded message - From: mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org>> Date: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 2:14 PM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt To: Y. Richard Yang mailto:yang.r.y...@yale.edu>>, Gang Li mailto:ligan...@chinamobile.com>>, Sabine Randriamasy mailto:sabine.randriam...@nokia-bell-labs.com>>, Yixue Lei mailto:yixue...@tencent.com>>, Yuhang Jia mailto:tony...@tencent.com>>, Yunbo Han mailto:yunbo...@tencent.com>>, Yunfei Zhang mailto:yanniszh...@tencent.com>> A new version of I-D, draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt has been successfully submitted by Y. Richard Yang and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app Revision: 04 Title: MoWIE for Network Aware Applications Document date: 2022-07-11 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 25 URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app/ Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04 Abstract: With the quick deployment of 5G networks in the world, cloud-based interactive applications (services) such as cloud gaming have gained substantial attention and
[alto] Cellular information exposure discussion (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt
Hi ALTO WG, During the weekly meeting today, the design team discussed about the document, and suggested that the authors update the WG on a new version of the MOWIE draft, which was uploaded last week and focuses on cellular network information exposure to network-aware applications. The links to the new version and the diff showing the updates can be found below. Any comments, feedback, or interests in working together are welcome and greatly appreciated. Using this email, we also want to include that there are two quite relevant pieces of work: W1. PBE-CC: Congestion Control via Endpoint-Centric, Physical-Layer Bandwidth Measurements (https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.03475), by Yaxiong Xie, Prof. Jamieson, and Prof. Rexford; W2. Achieving Consistent Low Latency for Wireless Real-Time Communications with the Shortest Control Loop (paper to be made public soon), by Zili, and Prof. Mingwei and team. It helps to use this email to point out a bigger picture of the problem space and related work. One perspective is that the problem space consists of 3 components: C1. What cellular-network information should be collected to be sent to the applications? C2. How is the cellular information sent to the applications? C3. How do the applications use the information? It is important to note that the full exploration of the problem space is not included in the current charter. However, this is an important problem space and hence it helps to keep track of the progress and potential impacts on ALTO. For C1, the impact will be the list of performance metrics. For C3, the current ALTO charter does not include items to define application behaviors, but it can be a point of discussion related to deployment. The most relevant component is C2. We discussed the following design points for C2: D-broadcast: network broadcasts its state D-pass-bounce: network marks its state on pass-through packets and the receiver bounces the state back to the sender D-direct-send: network sends its state to app directly Here by state it can be transformed state. Current ALTO is designed as D-direct-send. Due to lacking of deployment of D-direct-send in cellular network, aforementioned W1 uses D-broadcast; the D-pass-bounce design need at least a round trip time and couples network feedback flow with data flow, leading to the aforementioned W2 work. Many of us feel that the time is ready for introducing a highly efficient, flexible channel for network state exposure to applications, led by IETF, and the ALTO team can be a good starting point. As a first step, a systematic evaluation, which (1) surveys the design space and (2) introduces the use cases/benchmarking scenarios, can be a good starting point. If there is time available in the coming 114 meeting, we can discuss more during the presentation. Otherwise, on-list discussion is a good starting point. We will follow up with more analysis on the list soon but use this email to get the conversation started. Thanks, Richard on behalf of Tuesday meeting team -- Forwarded message - From: Date: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 2:14 PM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt To: Y. Richard Yang , Gang Li < ligan...@chinamobile.com>, Sabine Randriamasy < sabine.randriam...@nokia-bell-labs.com>, Yixue Lei , Yuhang Jia , Yunbo Han , Yunfei Zhang A new version of I-D, draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt has been successfully submitted by Y. Richard Yang and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app Revision: 04 Title: MoWIE for Network Aware Applications Document date: 2022-07-11 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 25 URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app/ Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04 Abstract: With the quick deployment of 5G networks in the world, cloud-based interactive applications (services) such as cloud gaming have gained substantial attention and are regarded as potential killer applications. To ensure users' quality of experience (QoE), a cloud interactive service may require not only high bandwidth (e.g., high- resolution media transmission) but also low delay (e.g., low latency and low lagging). However, the bandwidth and delay experienced by a mobile and wireless user can be dynamic, as a function of many factors, and unhandled changes can substantially compromise the user's QoE. In this document, we investigate network-aware applications (NAA), which realize cloud based interactive services with improved QoE, by efficient utilization of a solution named Mobile and Wireless Information Exposure (Mo
