[android-developers] Re: manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android
It appears google does monitor and can/will disable accounts. For example - mine has been disabled. Why? No idea but I've gotten it confirmed by google support. They said it was disabled due to high volume and suspicious traffic - with not email notification or anything. Just turned off - and no reply on how to get it turned back on. On Mar 7, 9:48 pm, Marco Nelissen marc...@android.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:58 PM, strazzere str...@gmail.com wrote: Your interaction with the market is also logged with your android id -- which also seems to be linked to a gmail account you use on that device. So I'm assuming this could be tracked - and if google wanted to, they could see. Hmmm 150+ users with the same android id? All commenting and install the same application? That is, if Google cares. All I've seen is oh, really? file a bug. And rightly so, because we can't keep track of issues brought up in a mailing list. If you see a bug, you're certainly welcome to bring it up in the mailing list, so that others may learn from your experience, but posting about it in this mailing list is no substitute for filing a bug. We can't assign a posting to an engineer. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android
:O:O:O On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 12:48 AM, strazzere str...@gmail.com wrote: It appears google does monitor and can/will disable accounts. For example - mine has been disabled. Why? No idea but I've gotten it confirmed by google support. They said it was disabled due to high volume and suspicious traffic - with not email notification or anything. Just turned off - and no reply on how to get it turned back on. On Mar 7, 9:48 pm, Marco Nelissen marc...@android.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:58 PM, strazzere str...@gmail.com wrote: Your interaction with the market is also logged with your android id -- which also seems to be linked to a gmail account you use on that device. So I'm assuming this could be tracked - and if google wanted to, they could see. Hmmm 150+ users with the same android id? All commenting and install the same application? That is, if Google cares. All I've seen is oh, really? file a bug. And rightly so, because we can't keep track of issues brought up in a mailing list. If you see a bug, you're certainly welcome to bring it up in the mailing list, so that others may learn from your experience, but posting about it in this mailing list is no substitute for filing a bug. We can't assign a posting to an engineer. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android
The user account you indicated was indeed disabled due to suspicious high-volume activity, indicative of an attempted denial-of-service attack or similar inappropriate activity. We do not provide any more detail than that in such cases. Presumably this was related to this work, although we have no way of knowing for certain: http://strazzere.com/blog/?p=158 While we don't necessarily have a problem with people accessing the Market in unusual ways, your traffic was excessive, suspicious, and in violation of the Market Terms of Service. Perhaps your traffic was accidental, but we have no way of distinguishing between an accident and an actual DoS attack. - Dan On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:48 PM, strazzere str...@gmail.com wrote: It appears google does monitor and can/will disable accounts. For example - mine has been disabled. Why? No idea but I've gotten it confirmed by google support. They said it was disabled due to high volume and suspicious traffic - with not email notification or anything. Just turned off - and no reply on how to get it turned back on. On Mar 7, 9:48 pm, Marco Nelissen marc...@android.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:58 PM, strazzere str...@gmail.com wrote: Your interaction with the market is also logged with your android id -- which also seems to be linked to a gmail account you use on that device. So I'm assuming this could be tracked - and if google wanted to, they could see. Hmmm 150+ users with the same android id? All commenting and install the same application? That is, if Google cares. All I've seen is oh, really? file a bug. And rightly so, because we can't keep track of issues brought up in a mailing list. If you see a bug, you're certainly welcome to bring it up in the mailing list, so that others may learn from your experience, but posting about it in this mailing list is no substitute for filing a bug. We can't assign a posting to an engineer. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android
How would one go about getting the account reinstated? I replied to Alan who originally sent that the account has been disabled but have been unable to get a reply. I'm sorry if traffic was suspicious but if it was from this - then it should have stopped approximately two or three weeks ago. So I guess I'm not sure why this was an issue right now - more than two weeks later? -Tim On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 7:35 PM, Dan Morrill morri...@google.com wrote: The user account you indicated was indeed disabled due to suspicious high-volume activity, indicative of an attempted denial-of-service attack or similar inappropriate activity. We do not provide any more detail than that in such cases. Presumably this was related to this work, although we have no way of knowing for certain: http://strazzere.com/blog/?p=158 While we don't necessarily have a problem with people accessing the Market in unusual ways, your traffic was excessive, suspicious, and in violation of the Market Terms of Service. Perhaps your traffic was accidental, but we have no way of distinguishing between an accident and an actual DoS attack. - Dan On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:48 PM, strazzere str...@gmail.com wrote: It appears google does monitor and can/will disable accounts. For example - mine has been disabled. Why? No idea but I've gotten it confirmed by google support. They said it was disabled due to high volume and suspicious traffic - with not email notification or anything. Just turned off - and no reply on how to get it turned back on. On Mar 7, 9:48 pm, Marco Nelissen marc...@android.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:58 PM, strazzere str...@gmail.com wrote: Your interaction with the market is also logged with your android id -- which also seems to be linked to a gmail account you use on that device. So I'm assuming this could be tracked - and if google wanted to, they could see. Hmmm 150+ users with the same android id? All commenting and install the same application? That is, if Google cares. All I've seen is oh, really? file a bug. And rightly so, because we can't keep track of issues brought up in a mailing list. If you see a bug, you're certainly welcome to bring it up in the mailing list, so that others may learn from your experience, but posting about it in this mailing list is no substitute for filing a bug. We can't assign a posting to an engineer. -- -Tim Strazzere --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android
As I said, I can't provide any additional details in such cases. Regarding reinstatement, I'm unfamiliar with Google's policies on reinstating accounts in such circumstances, but the folks who handle the support forum are. They can let you know what your options are. - Dan On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Tim str...@gmail.com wrote: How would one go about getting the account reinstated? I replied to Alan who originally sent that the account has been disabled but have been unable to get a reply. I'm sorry if traffic was suspicious but if it was from this - then it should have stopped approximately two or three weeks ago. So I guess I'm not sure why this was an issue right now - more than two weeks later? -Tim On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 7:35 PM, Dan Morrill morri...@google.com wrote: The user account you indicated was indeed disabled due to suspicious high-volume activity, indicative of an attempted denial-of-service attack or similar inappropriate activity. We do not provide any more detail than that in such cases. Presumably this was related to this work, although we have no way of knowing for certain: http://strazzere.com/blog/?p=158 While we don't necessarily have a problem with people accessing the Market in unusual ways, your traffic was excessive, suspicious, and in violation of the Market Terms of Service. Perhaps your traffic was accidental, but we have no way of distinguishing between an accident and an actual DoS attack. - Dan On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:48 PM, strazzere str...@gmail.com wrote: It appears google does monitor and can/will disable accounts. For example - mine has been disabled. Why? No idea but I've gotten it confirmed by google support. They said it was disabled due to high volume and suspicious traffic - with not email notification or anything. Just turned off - and no reply on how to get it turned back on. On Mar 7, 9:48 pm, Marco Nelissen marc...@android.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:58 PM, strazzere str...@gmail.com wrote: Your interaction with the market is also logged with your android id -- which also seems to be linked to a gmail account you use on that device. So I'm assuming this could be tracked - and if google wanted to, they could see. Hmmm 150+ users with the same android id? All commenting and install the same application? That is, if Google cares. All I've seen is oh, really? file a bug. And rightly so, because we can't keep track of issues brought up in a mailing list. If you see a bug, you're certainly welcome to bring it up in the mailing list, so that others may learn from your experience, but posting about it in this mailing list is no substitute for filing a bug. We can't assign a posting to an engineer. -- -Tim Strazzere --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android
Dan, Sorry to bother you again - but under what support board should this be posted on? Are there any direct emails I can use for this that you know of? On Mar 13, 2009 7:57 PM, Dan Morrill morri...@google.com wrote: As I said, I can't provide any additional details in such cases. Regarding reinstatement, I'm unfamiliar with Google's policies on reinstating accounts in such circumstances, but the folks who handle the support forum are. They can let you know what your options are. - Dan On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Tim str...@gmail.com wrote: How would one go about getting the account reinstated? I replied to Alan who originally sent tha... -Tim Strazzere --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ This message is part of the topic manipulat... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android
On Mar 7, 9:07 am, Mariano Kamp mariano.k...@gmail.com wrote: What about AE (or another single person) trying it out in public? Say what user he creates and what app he will rate/comment with *. We can watch if it gets deleted. I don't consider AE cheating if he does it once, in public, and as part of an experiment. Yes I have done it and to see if it really true and it works. On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote: Have you confirmed yourself on a G1 that after multiple 'phone resets and comments/ratings they all stay in the market for more than 48 hours? No it stays. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a filtering mechanism which looked for multiple comments/ratings from the same 'phone which ran (possibly as a daily batch job). Also to add for everyone here. If I had an evil vision :D I wouldn't be telling what I have found it in open public :D Furthermore not even come up with suggestion to solve the issue. Also the reason for raising the issue here is -- if all the app developer start doing it bingo we will have a serious credibility crisis for the android market! and thus Google must solve this as soon as possible. It really have the potential to destroy the android eco-system. Regards AE AE wrote: Hi, It is my understanding that the popularity index uses several parameters to such as rating, comments (not directly but indirectly), number of downloads, active install, total install, installs from regular users, install from dev phones, age of the app, number of phone sales in a region, etc,etc -- there is probably 500 elements that are in the works! And rightfully so Google doesn't want folks to game the system. Now what I like to stress here is the following -- the 3 key element that is presented to users prior to download is number of downloads, rating, comments. No matter how much we argue at the end of day -- the users makes his/her decision somewhat based on the above 3 parameters. Interestingly all of the above parameters can be manipulated by doing the following. a. Download the app - rank and comment b. Reset your phone - Create new user c. Repeat A And if you get say 5 college kid doing the above.. bingo you can always make sure that visible 3 comments are clean and positive -- you can also use those comments as a megaphone to tell the users -- what more can your app do -- beside the 325 char description , you keep your rating stable at 4.7/4.6 (so you don't look to greedy) and your number of downloads are increasing. Not only that while you are at it you might as well go ahead and make lower rating and ugly comments to competitors app -- and you make sure you uninstall competitors app, where as you don't uninstall your app -- you just hit for the hard reset -- because you send the signal -- that the phone might be off -- rinse and repeat!!! Yes very true this will not increase your popularity but slowly and surely by doing so you can only go up cos if all of the ranking elements produce X and the above 3 elements say produce Y -- no matter how insignificant these 3 parameter is -- you are on the positive -- never the less you have a propaganda megaphone to the users who download your apps. In every damn category all the top 20 - 30 apps stays the same, I have not seen them moving out of that space !! I am complete disgusted by the above, I worked hard to develop my app, I used the SDK so I can take advantage of all the phone features and I am honest and what it gets me -- nada! So why should I develop app -- what incentive does it provide me if I don't have the money power to buy my friends 5-10 G1 to game the system!! I have couple of ideas to the above problem - and I am sure there are many here who has even better idea then i list below -- 1. Rating from the new users i.e. created on the fly users -- should be separated from the users who are verified i.e. been using google for a while and have a history, so I propose 2 ratings rather then one - why - it should be transparent to the end consumer (No propaganda megaphone) -- how you use to evaluate popularity -- not my business and its googles secret. 2. Comments should have added star or colors to identify also the user has no history with google i.e. Amazon's REAL NAME. Again transparent to end consumer Yes, I do want to have real users comments and their ratings and show the world total downloads -- it just helps me improve my app. But we need a fair playing field that's my request. I am sure many of you know the above -- at least its a open secret! Now everyone can play the game!! I look forward to constructive replies/solutions and hear your views. -- * Written an Android App? - List it athttp://andappstore.com/* == Funky Android Limited is registered in England Wales with the
[android-developers] Re: manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android
No it stays. Oh. That isn't so good. Then I guess your idea to ignore new user ratings (etc.) seems like a sensible approach. Btw. I think it would also be good to give the more recent ratings a higher weighting then the old ones as it was mentioned in another thread. On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 11:00 AM, AE antonio_eggb...@yahoo.se wrote: On Mar 7, 9:07 am, Mariano Kamp mariano.k...@gmail.com wrote: What about AE (or another single person) trying it out in public? Say what user he creates and what app he will rate/comment with *. We can watch if it gets deleted. I don't consider AE cheating if he does it once, in public, and as part of an experiment. Yes I have done it and to see if it really true and it works. On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote: Have you confirmed yourself on a G1 that after multiple 'phone resets and comments/ratings they all stay in the market for more than 48 hours? No it stays. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a filtering mechanism which looked for multiple comments/ratings from the same 'phone which ran (possibly as a daily batch job). Also to add for everyone here. If I had an evil vision :D I wouldn't be telling what I have found it in open public :D Furthermore not even come up with suggestion to solve the issue. Also the reason for raising the issue here is -- if all the app developer start doing it bingo we will have a serious credibility crisis for the android market! and thus Google must solve this as soon as possible. It really have the potential to destroy the android eco-system. Regards AE AE wrote: Hi, It is my understanding that the popularity index uses several parameters to such as rating, comments (not directly but indirectly), number of downloads, active install, total install, installs from regular users, install from dev phones, age of the app, number of phone sales in a region, etc,etc -- there is probably 500 elements that are in the works! And rightfully so Google doesn't want folks to game the system. Now what I like to stress here is the following -- the 3 key element that is presented to users prior to download is number of downloads, rating, comments. No matter how much we argue at the end of day -- the users makes his/her decision somewhat based on the above 3 parameters. Interestingly all of the above parameters can be manipulated by doing the following. a. Download the app - rank and comment b. Reset your phone - Create new user c. Repeat A And if you get say 5 college kid doing the above.. bingo you can always make sure that visible 3 comments are clean and positive -- you can also use those comments as a megaphone to tell the users -- what more can your app do -- beside the 325 char description , you keep your rating stable at 4.7/4.6 (so you don't look to greedy) and your number of downloads are increasing. Not only that while you are at it you might as well go ahead and make lower rating and ugly comments to competitors app -- and you make sure you uninstall competitors app, where as you don't uninstall your app -- you just hit for the hard reset -- because you send the signal -- that the phone might be off -- rinse and repeat!!! Yes very true this will not increase your popularity but slowly and surely by doing so you can only go up cos if all of the ranking elements produce X and the above 3 elements say produce Y -- no matter how insignificant these 3 parameter is -- you are on the positive -- never the less you have a propaganda megaphone to the users who download your apps. In every damn category all the top 20 - 30 apps stays the same, I have not seen them moving out of that space !! I am complete disgusted by the above, I worked hard to develop my app, I used the SDK so I can take advantage of all the phone features and I am honest and what it gets me -- nada! So why should I develop app -- what incentive does it provide me if I don't have the money power to buy my friends 5-10 G1 to game the system!! I have couple of ideas to the above problem - and I am sure there are many here who has even better idea then i list below -- 1. Rating from the new users i.e. created on the fly users -- should be separated from the users who are verified i.e. been using google for a while and have a history, so I propose 2 ratings rather then one - why - it should be transparent to the end consumer (No propaganda megaphone) -- how you use to evaluate popularity -- not my business and its googles secret. 2. Comments should have added star or colors to identify also the user has no history with google i.e. Amazon's REAL NAME. Again transparent to end consumer Yes, I do want to have real users comments and their ratings and show the
[android-developers] Re: manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android
I actually like the discussion related to marketplace and checkout issues since I find it relevant to developers. Justin, is this your personal opinion or are you one of the moderators of the forum? Inder On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 7:45 PM, Justin Allen Jaynes jus...@ragblue.comwrote: While any interest in Android is good, this is a developer forum only. Use this forum if: You're now an experienced Android application developer. You've grasped the basics of Android app development, you're comfortable using the SDK, now you want to move to advanced topics. Get help here with troubleshooting applications, advice on implementation, and strategies for improving your application's performance and user experience.” --Google Groups Description “This is the not the right place to discuss user issues (use android-discuss for that) or beginner questions with the Android SDK (use android-beginners for that). --Google Groups Description If you were to post topics such as this to the android-discuss group, your relevant and useful dialog there would encourage others to participate in that forum. Separating the discussions by topic into two different forums improves the dialog in both forums, does it not? Please consider posting to the proper forum. For complete information see: http://developer.android.com/community AE wrote: Hi, It is my understanding that the popularity index uses several parameters to such as rating, comments (not directly but indirectly), number of downloads, active install, total install, installs from regular users, install from dev phones, age of the app, number of phone sales in a region, etc,etc -- there is probably 500 elements that are in the works! And rightfully so Google doesn't want folks to game the system. Now what I like to stress here is the following -- the 3 key element that is presented to users prior to download is number of downloads, rating, comments. No matter how much we argue at the end of day -- the users makes his/her decision somewhat based on the above 3 parameters. Interestingly all of the above parameters can be manipulated by doing the following. a. Download the app - rank and comment b. Reset your phone - Create new user c. Repeat A And if you get say 5 college kid doing the above.. bingo you can always make sure that visible 3 comments are clean and positive -- you can also use those comments as a megaphone to tell the users -- what more can your app do -- beside the 325 char description , you keep your rating stable at 4.7/4.6 (so you don't look to greedy) and your number of downloads are increasing. Not only that while you are at it you might as well go ahead and make lower rating and ugly comments to competitors app -- and you make sure you uninstall competitors app, where as you don't uninstall your app -- you just hit for the hard reset -- because you send the signal -- that the phone might be off -- rinse and repeat!!! Yes very true this will not increase your popularity but slowly and surely by doing so you can only go up cos if all of the ranking elements produce X and the above 3 elements say produce Y -- no matter how insignificant these 3 parameter is -- you are on the positive -- never the less you have a propaganda megaphone to the users who download your apps. In every damn category all the top 20 - 30 apps stays the same, I have not seen them moving out of that space !! I am complete disgusted by the above, I worked hard to develop my app, I used the SDK so I can take advantage of all the phone features and I am honest and what it gets me -- nada! So why should I develop app -- what incentive does it provide me if I don't have the money power to buy my friends 5-10 G1 to game the system!! I have couple of ideas to the above problem - and I am sure there are many here who has even better idea then i list below -- 1. Rating from the new users i.e. created on the fly users -- should be separated from the users who are verified i.e. been using google for a while and have a history, so I propose 2 ratings rather then one - why - it should be transparent to the end consumer (No propaganda megaphone) -- how you use to evaluate popularity -- not my business and its googles secret. 2. Comments should have added star or colors to identify also the user has no history with google i.e. Amazon's REAL NAME. Again transparent to end consumer Yes, I do want to have real users comments and their ratings and show the world total downloads -- it just helps me improve my app. But we need a fair playing field that's my request. I am sure many of you know the above -- at least its a open secret! Now everyone can play the game!! I look forward to constructive replies/solutions and hear your views. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed
[android-developers] Re: manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 2:00 AM, AE antonio_eggb...@yahoo.se wrote: On Mar 7, 9:07 am, Mariano Kamp mariano.k...@gmail.com wrote: What about AE (or another single person) trying it out in public? Say what user he creates and what app he will rate/comment with *. We can watch if it gets deleted. I don't consider AE cheating if he does it once, in public, and as part of an experiment. Yes I have done it and to see if it really true and it works. Did you file a bug at http://b.android.com ? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android
Your interaction with the market is also logged with your android id -- which also seems to be linked to a gmail account you use on that device. So I'm assuming this could be tracked - and if google wanted to, they could see. Hmmm 150+ users with the same android id? All commenting and install the same application? On Mar 7, 10:43 am, Marco Nelissen marc...@android.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 2:00 AM, AE antonio_eggb...@yahoo.se wrote: On Mar 7, 9:07 am, Mariano Kamp mariano.k...@gmail.com wrote: What about AE (or another single person) trying it out in public? Say what user he creates and what app he will rate/comment with *. We can watch if it gets deleted. I don't consider AE cheating if he does it once, in public, and as part of an experiment. Yes I have done it and to see if it really true and it works. Did you file a bug athttp://b.android.com? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:58 PM, strazzere str...@gmail.com wrote: Your interaction with the market is also logged with your android id -- which also seems to be linked to a gmail account you use on that device. So I'm assuming this could be tracked - and if google wanted to, they could see. Hmmm 150+ users with the same android id? All commenting and install the same application? That is, if Google cares. All I've seen is oh, really? file a bug. As if it's I put a padding of 10 dips but it looks like 9. I don't think such *very* important matter could be taken so easily. This is not simply a bug - it could be a showstopper for those who wouldn't exploit it, and a powerful weapon for those who would. P.S. Sorry for cutting the rest of the conversation -- it just got too big. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android
Filing a bug is the way to get things fixed. Most Google Android engineers do not read this list. They do respond to bug reports though. On Mar 7, 3:01 pm, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:58 PM, strazzere str...@gmail.com wrote: Your interaction with the market is also logged with your android id -- which also seems to be linked to a gmail account you use on that device. So I'm assuming this could be tracked - and if google wanted to, they could see. Hmmm 150+ users with the same android id? All commenting and install the same application? That is, if Google cares. All I've seen is oh, really? file a bug. As if it's I put a padding of 10 dips but it looks like 9. I don't think such *very* important matter could be taken so easily. This is not simply a bug - it could be a showstopper for those who wouldn't exploit it, and a powerful weapon for those who would. P.S. Sorry for cutting the rest of the conversation -- it just got too big. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:58 PM, strazzere str...@gmail.com wrote: Your interaction with the market is also logged with your android id -- which also seems to be linked to a gmail account you use on that device. So I'm assuming this could be tracked - and if google wanted to, they could see. Hmmm 150+ users with the same android id? All commenting and install the same application? That is, if Google cares. All I've seen is oh, really? file a bug. And rightly so, because we can't keep track of issues brought up in a mailing list. If you see a bug, you're certainly welcome to bring it up in the mailing list, so that others may learn from your experience, but posting about it in this mailing list is no substitute for filing a bug. We can't assign a posting to an engineer. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android
While any interest in Android is good, this is a developer forum only. Use this forum if: You're now an experienced Android application developer. You've grasped the basics of Android app development, you're comfortable using the SDK, now you want to move to advanced topics. Get help here with troubleshooting applications, advice on implementation, and strategies for improving your application's performance and user experience.” --Google Groups Description “This is the not the right place to discuss user issues (use android-discuss for that) or beginner questions with the Android SDK (use android-beginners for that). --Google Groups Description If you were to post topics such as this to the android-discuss group, your relevant and useful dialog there would encourage others to participate in that forum. Separating the discussions by topic into two different forums improves the dialog in both forums, does it not? Please consider posting to the proper forum. For complete information see: http://developer.android.com/community AE wrote: Hi, It is my understanding that the popularity index uses several parameters to such as rating, comments (not directly but indirectly), number of downloads, active install, total install, installs from regular users, install from dev phones, age of the app, number of phone sales in a region, etc,etc -- there is probably 500 elements that are in the works! And rightfully so Google doesn't want folks to game the system. Now what I like to stress here is the following -- the 3 key element that is presented to users prior to download is number of downloads, rating, comments. No matter how much we argue at the end of day -- the users makes his/her decision somewhat based on the above 3 parameters. Interestingly all of the above parameters can be manipulated by doing the following. a. Download the app - rank and comment b. Reset your phone - Create new user c. Repeat A And if you get say 5 college kid doing the above.. bingo you can always make sure that visible 3 comments are clean and positive -- you can also use those comments as a megaphone to tell the users -- what more can your app do -- beside the 325 char description , you keep your rating stable at 4.7/4.6 (so you don't look to greedy) and your number of downloads are increasing. Not only that while you are at it you might as well go ahead and make lower rating and ugly comments to competitors app -- and you make sure you uninstall competitors app, where as you don't uninstall your app -- you just hit for the hard reset -- because you send the signal -- that the phone might be off -- rinse and repeat!!! Yes very true this will not increase your popularity but slowly and surely by doing so you can only go up cos if all of the ranking elements produce X and the above 3 elements say produce Y -- no matter how insignificant these 3 parameter is -- you are on the positive -- never the less you have a propaganda megaphone to the users who download your apps. In every damn category all the top 20 - 30 apps stays the same, I have not seen them moving out of that space !! I am complete disgusted by the above, I worked hard to develop my app, I used the SDK so I can take advantage of all the phone features and I am honest and what it gets me -- nada! So why should I develop app -- what incentive does it provide me if I don't have the money power to buy my friends 5-10 G1 to game the system!! I have couple of ideas to the above problem - and I am sure there are many here who has even better idea then i list below -- 1. Rating from the new users i.e. created on the fly users -- should be separated from the users who are verified i.e. been using google for a while and have a history, so I propose 2 ratings rather then one - why - it should be transparent to the end consumer (No propaganda megaphone) -- how you use to evaluate popularity -- not my business and its googles secret. 2. Comments should have added star or colors to identify also the user has no history with google i.e. Amazon's REAL NAME. Again transparent to end consumer Yes, I do want to have real users comments and their ratings and show the world total downloads -- it just helps me improve my app. But we need a fair playing field that's my request. I am sure many of you know the above -- at least its a open secret! Now everyone can play the game!! I look forward to constructive replies/solutions and hear your views. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 7:45 PM, Justin Allen Jaynes jus...@ragblue.com wrote: While any interest in Android is good, this is a developer forum only. You've said that about 15 times in the last 2 days. I think you've made your point. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[android-developers] Re: manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android
Have you confirmed yourself on a G1 that after multiple 'phone resets and comments/ratings they all stay in the market for more than 48 hours? I'd be surprised if there wasn't a filtering mechanism which looked for multiple comments/ratings from the same 'phone which ran (possibly as a daily batch job). Al. AE wrote: Hi, It is my understanding that the popularity index uses several parameters to such as rating, comments (not directly but indirectly), number of downloads, active install, total install, installs from regular users, install from dev phones, age of the app, number of phone sales in a region, etc,etc -- there is probably 500 elements that are in the works! And rightfully so Google doesn't want folks to game the system. Now what I like to stress here is the following -- the 3 key element that is presented to users prior to download is number of downloads, rating, comments. No matter how much we argue at the end of day -- the users makes his/her decision somewhat based on the above 3 parameters. Interestingly all of the above parameters can be manipulated by doing the following. a. Download the app - rank and comment b. Reset your phone - Create new user c. Repeat A And if you get say 5 college kid doing the above.. bingo you can always make sure that visible 3 comments are clean and positive -- you can also use those comments as a megaphone to tell the users -- what more can your app do -- beside the 325 char description , you keep your rating stable at 4.7/4.6 (so you don't look to greedy) and your number of downloads are increasing. Not only that while you are at it you might as well go ahead and make lower rating and ugly comments to competitors app -- and you make sure you uninstall competitors app, where as you don't uninstall your app -- you just hit for the hard reset -- because you send the signal -- that the phone might be off -- rinse and repeat!!! Yes very true this will not increase your popularity but slowly and surely by doing so you can only go up cos if all of the ranking elements produce X and the above 3 elements say produce Y -- no matter how insignificant these 3 parameter is -- you are on the positive -- never the less you have a propaganda megaphone to the users who download your apps. In every damn category all the top 20 - 30 apps stays the same, I have not seen them moving out of that space !! I am complete disgusted by the above, I worked hard to develop my app, I used the SDK so I can take advantage of all the phone features and I am honest and what it gets me -- nada! So why should I develop app -- what incentive does it provide me if I don't have the money power to buy my friends 5-10 G1 to game the system!! I have couple of ideas to the above problem - and I am sure there are many here who has even better idea then i list below -- 1. Rating from the new users i.e. created on the fly users -- should be separated from the users who are verified i.e. been using google for a while and have a history, so I propose 2 ratings rather then one - why - it should be transparent to the end consumer (No propaganda megaphone) -- how you use to evaluate popularity -- not my business and its googles secret. 2. Comments should have added star or colors to identify also the user has no history with google i.e. Amazon's REAL NAME. Again transparent to end consumer Yes, I do want to have real users comments and their ratings and show the world total downloads -- it just helps me improve my app. But we need a fair playing field that's my request. I am sure many of you know the above -- at least its a open secret! Now everyone can play the game!! I look forward to constructive replies/solutions and hear your views. -- * Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ * == Funky Android Limited is registered in England Wales with the company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's subsidiaries. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
