Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[Hugh Thomas]

I attended the annual trade show in Washington for two years in a row,
about 2013 -14. At that show Cosmic Crisp was displayed, hyped and offered
as a tasting. I tried it twice at one show and then again at the next
year's show. There was some "crisp'" like most apples, but the taste was
shallow, it didn't linger. The crisp part was far less than Honeycrisp, and
the taste part was a lessened sensation. This is, of course, a subjective
interpretation. My taste buds are unique like my DNA, and others may have a
different view. My view is that Honeycrisp "explodes" in the mouth,
(speaking of my Honeycrisp, grown at 3500' elevation in Montana, with
summer nights cooling to 40-50 degrees F) and Cosmic Crisp is just another
apple. Most of the apples grown around Yakama, Washington have this
problem. The taste is shallow, and the fruit is huge from some orchards. I
believe the problem is night time temps. If an apple cools at night, the
fruit is smaller, firmer and sweeter. My take on it. I am not a Phd or
officially trained biologist. My guess, which is not based on science or
objective measurement, is that the hype was projected, the growers bought
into it, and now this Cosmic Crisp will enter the market and high elevation
honey crisp will blow it out of the water.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Shoemaker, William H  wrote:

> So Hugh, I hope it didn't taste "pimpled-up". Could you tell us what were
> the negatives and positives of your tasting experience?
>
> Thanks for a good laugh.
>
> Bill
>
> *William H. Shoemaker *
>
> *Retired fruit and vegetable horticulturist*
>
> *University of Illinois*
>
> wshoe...@illinois.edu
> --
> *From:* apple-crop [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] on behalf of
> Hugh Thomas [hughthoma...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 21, 2017 12:15 PM
> *To:* Apple-Crop discussion list
> *Subject:* Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp
>
> First of all, "Cosmic Crisp" is a stupid name, no doubt, some committee
> consisting of 500 came up with it. Sounds like a pimpled-up teen-aged
> super-hero character from another planet who gets real flakey if you mess
> with him. And by the way, he has a red outfit with a big logo on his chest
> with a yellow *CC*.  Secondly, it doesn't taste that good. I've tasted it
> two or three times. Third, I understand it's meant for Washington growers
> only, wherein WSU has a restriction. I not sure about this, but if true, I
> wonder if WSU gets any our federal taxes. Is so, and you want to grow it,
> contact your Senator.
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:59 AM, maurice tougas <
> appleman.maur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My understanding is that Cosmic Crisp will be an open variety in seven
>> years.
>>
>>  Numbers we were quoted for "all in" establishment costs per acre was
>> $60,000 on a large planting. No land acquisition costs. Land prep, trees,
>> support, tractors, irrigation, machinery buildings and housing for H2A
>> labor included. I do not know if overhead towards packing facility was
>> factored in.
>>
>> Mo Tougas
>> Tougas Family Farm llc
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Craig J. Kahlke 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> David,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing this.  When WA decides on something, it’s full speed
>>> ahead.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Craig J. Kahlke
>>>
>>> Area Extension Educator
>>>
>>> Fruit Quality Management
>>>
>>> Team Leader
>>>
>>> Lake Ontario Fruit Program
>>>
>>> Cornell Cooperative Extension
>>>
>>> 4487 Lake Ave
>>>
>>> Lockport, NY 14094
>>>
>>> Cell: 585-735-5448 <(585)%20735-5448>
>>>
>>> Work: 716-433-8839, ext. 237 <(716)%20433-8839>
>>>
>>> Fax: 716-438-0275 <(716)%20438-0275>
>>>
>>> Email: cj...@cornell.edu
>>>
>>> http://lof.cce.cornell.edu/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] *On
>>> Behalf Of *David Doud
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2017 10:33 AM
>>> *To:* Apple-Crop discussion list 
>>> *Subject:* [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with
>>> Cosmic Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering -
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/washington-apple-growers-gamb
>>> le-big-cosmic-crisp-byron-phillips?trk=mp-reader-card
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 'et cavete ab agricola’ -
>>>
>>> 'let the grower beware'…
>>>
>>> …and the sales desks also...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David Doud - grower, IN - silver tip on early blooming varieties -
>>>
>>> so sorry to see reports of the eastern temperatures of a couple nights
>>> ago...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> apple-crop mailing list
>>> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
>>> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Maurice Tougas
>> Tougas Family Farm
>> Northborough,MA 01532
>> 508-450-0844 <(508)%20450-0844>
>>
>> 

Re: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

[Dean]

Thanks a lot. 

Regards, Dean
Www.berrypatchfarm.com


> On Mar 21, 2017, at 10:09 AM, Tom Auvil  wrote:
> 
> Dean, 
> 
> Many if not most wood decay fungi are 'water molds' that need moisture and
> temperature to germinate and grow.  Most latex / exterior paints are
> manufactured to 'seal' things up and can increase the incidence of disease.
> A WSU pathologist recommended a copper spray or adding copper to a white
> wash would be better than a sealing paint. Grafters use sealants  to
> encourage the scion and trunk to callus and knit together before the tissues
> dry out and cease activity. Another disease management factor is if there
> are a number of trees/trunks with wood decay activity in the orchard. The
> more disease in the field increases risk and encourages treatment. 
> 
> Tom and Rose Auvil
> PO Box 408
> Orondo, WA 98843
> 
> tau...@nwi.net
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] On Behalf Of
> Dean
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 11:47 AM
> To: Apple-Crop
> Subject: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts
> 
> We have made some large cuts,
> 4-6" seems like some latex paint would be helpful (apples). 
> Realize standard advice says no
> But ready for advice. Thanks
> 77 tues forecast 15 tomorrow night in central Iowa. 
> 
> 
> Regards, Dean
> Www.berrypatchfarm.com
> 
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[Apple-Crop] Robotic Following Cart - Potential Orchard Applications?

[charlie]

Hello,

I am working to develop a robot to assist in hand picking and other
farm applications, and wanted to share what we have to get feedback.

The robot we are developing is simply a cart that follows you (picture
below).  From what we can see, it appears as if a lot of harvest and
pruning time is spent shuttling produce or stuff that has been pruned
from a point by the tree to a collection point.  I think our launch
product [1] might reduce/eliminate this shuttling time.  I WONDERED
IF ANY OF YOU MIGHT BE WILLING TO TAKE A SURVEY (HERE [2]) TO PROVIDE
US FEEDBACK ON OUR CONCEPT, OR PERHAPS REPLY WITH ANY FEEDBACK YOU
MIGHT HAVE?

Thank you very much!

Best,

Charlie

Charlie Andersen
CEO, AGR
c. 610-47-9903
char...@agrbt.com [3]
WWW.AGRBT.COM [4]



Links:
--
[1] http://www.agrbt.com/products.html
[2]
http://webmail.dreamhost.com/HTTPS://DOCS.GOOGLE.COM/FORMS/D/E/1FAIPQLSF0WMXDGVPLTILXJPMOZ3L5Y7JWT-NZEJYYX2HEO2L5UVO1WG/VIEWFORM?USP=SF_LINK
[3] mailto:char...@agrbt.com
[4] http://www.agrbt.com/

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Re: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

[Tom Auvil]

Dean, 

Many if not most wood decay fungi are 'water molds' that need moisture and
temperature to germinate and grow.  Most latex / exterior paints are
manufactured to 'seal' things up and can increase the incidence of disease.
A WSU pathologist recommended a copper spray or adding copper to a white
wash would be better than a sealing paint. Grafters use sealants  to
encourage the scion and trunk to callus and knit together before the tissues
dry out and cease activity. Another disease management factor is if there
are a number of trees/trunks with wood decay activity in the orchard. The
more disease in the field increases risk and encourages treatment. 

Tom and Rose Auvil
PO Box 408
Orondo, WA 98843

tau...@nwi.net

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] On Behalf Of
Dean
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 11:47 AM
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

We have made some large cuts,
4-6" seems like some latex paint would be helpful (apples). 
Realize standard advice says no
But ready for advice. Thanks
77 tues forecast 15 tomorrow night in central Iowa. 


Regards, Dean
Www.berrypatchfarm.com

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Re: [Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

[David Kollas]

Dean:
I use Doc Farwell’s Seal and Heal (green) or the similar Doc Farwell’s 
Grafting Seal on cuts that
I think will not heal over within two or three years if they do not slope 
enough to shed rain over the
raised lip of new growth.  Wood rot develops on wounds that provide wet 
conditions favorable to 
decay. Large cuts made to permit grafting do not heal rapidly if there is no 
foliage feeding the cut from
above. Observe temperature limitations on the label.

David Kollas
Kollas Orchard
Tolland, CT
  
> On Mar 9, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Dean  wrote:
> 
> We have made some large cuts,
> 4-6" seems like some latex paint would be helpful (apples). 
> Realize standard advice says no
> But ready for advice. Thanks
> 77 tues forecast 15 tomorrow night in central Iowa. 
> 
> 
> Regards, Dean
> Www.berrypatchfarm.com
> 
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[Apple-Crop] Pruning cuts

[Dean]

We have made some large cuts,
4-6" seems like some latex paint would be helpful (apples). 
Realize standard advice says no
But ready for advice. Thanks
77 tues forecast 15 tomorrow night in central Iowa. 


Regards, Dean
Www.berrypatchfarm.com

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[Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[David Doud]

A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with Cosmic 
Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering - 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/washington-apple-growers-gamble-big-cosmic-crisp-byron-phillips?trk=mp-reader-card

'et cavete ab agricola’ - 
'let the grower beware'…
…and the sales desks also...

David Doud - grower, IN - silver tip on early blooming varieties - 
so sorry to see reports of the eastern temperatures of a couple nights ago...

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Re: [Apple-Crop] sprayer calibration debate

[John Bruguiere]

thanks to all for helping with my calibration.

john


On 3/2/2017 10:19 AM, Jon Clements wrote:

You can look at the third item here to do exactly what you want I think:

http://fruitadvisor.info/tfruit/clements/trvcalculator.html

Jon

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 9:15 AM, John Bruguiere > wrote:


Hello all, need some healthy practical advice on sprayer
calibration.  Specifically air blast sprayers. For decades we have
measured a block of trees to determine acreage, sprayed out tank
and determined gallons per acre based on what area was covered in
tank. For example trees planted at 8 x 18 spacing gave us 300
trees to acre, we sprayed out tank, counted trees and determined
that our sprayer puts out 2.5 acres per tank.  we used this  to
determine amount of material to put in the tank etc. All the
calibration formulas , I have seen require tree row volume(height
x row spacing) to be part of equation.  I have 4-5 different
spacings in 100 acres of orchard which makes it more of a headache
to constantly figure gallons per acre and spray materials needed
in each different block(thus the reason we simply measured trees
per acre). I know my speed , i know my gallons per minute but
can't find an equation that converts this to gallons per acre
without tree row volume.

need a simple but effective solution...any takers?

in Virginia we have plums in full bloom, fantasia and red gold
nectarines in pink and some open blooms, 21 degrees forecasted on
friday and saturday night.

God Bless,

John Bruguiere

Dickie Bros. Orchard


On 1/30/2017 6:36 PM, Arthur Kelly wrote:

I agree Mo.  We try and remove trees every year and plant every
year.  I did use the word can to hedge the productive life of a
block.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 30, 2017, at 5:48 PM, maurice tougas
>
wrote:


Art

I agree that it's great to be out pruning. I disagree that you
should expect a longer productive life with high density
systems. My goal here is to be looking at replanting when the
orchard reaches twenty years or so. New varieties, strains of
varieties and improved planting system encourage 5% renewal in
my opinion.

My best to you
Mo Tougas

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:27 PM, George Greene
> wrote:

Art:

Your comment makes sense to me.  Right now I have a cold and
I fell on the ice on Dec. 29th and I am still suffering.  Pt
may help but it may take a while.

I suppose that you are enjoying the warmer weather.

Be well, George


On Jan 30, 2017, at 12:43 PM, kellyorchards
>
wrote:

Ruminations after a morning pruning.  The weather is
ideal.  The temps are in the high 20's, the wind is light
and the sun is shining.  Weather like this is why we live
here. Permanent limbs ultimately and inevitably get too
large.  This is why high density systems can have a longer
productive life than less dense orchards.




Art Kelly
Kelly Orchards
Acton, Maine
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George Greene
68 Willow Lane
Wiscasset, ME 04578
207-882-8074 
cortla...@icloud.com 





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-- 
Maurice Tougas

Tougas Family Farm
Northborough,MA 01532
508-450-0844 
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[Apple-Crop] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: sprayer calibration debate

[Glen Koehler]

A generic way to deal with different tree sizes and spacings is to
calibrate for the highest TRV / biggest trees block and then turn off
nozzles not needed for smaller trees.  Granted this simplistic method is
much less accurate than block specific settings, but it allows spraying
different blocks with same tankmix and sprayer setup.  Further adjustments
to travel speed (within suitable ranges) and as Peter mentioned, flip
nozzles allow better alignment with block specific need.  This approach can
lead to application volume tuned for the bigger trees and more than
required for the smaller trees but it's better than not doing the
calculations.

The math to estimate each blocks tree row volume based amount of water per
acre for a dilute 1X application is actually pretty simple, and it
described in Extension tree fruit management guides.  That provides the
foundation for calculating how much water and spray material is needed per
acre for the typical 2X to 8X application.  Differences between TRV
formulas are less important than doing the calculations to have that
foundation to work from and then adjust as needed from field experience.

A big ditto for Peter's recommendation for Jason Deveau's Sprayer101.com
site.  His emphasis on verifying coverage in addition to the TRV
calculations is key.

- Glen

Glen Koehler
University of Maine Cooperative Extension
Pest Management Office
Voice:  Office 207-581-3882,   Cell  207-485-0918
491 College Avenue, Orono, ME  04473
UMaine Apple IPM 
Ag-Radar 

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Peter Werts 
wrote:

> Hal,
>
>
>
> Question. As an enclosed-cabbed tractor ages, will the seal around the
> doors wear out, or better yet, how do you verify the enclosed cab is
> providing the protection you are after?  That might make an argument for
> wearing the respirator in the cab, at some point during the life of the
> tractor.
>
>
>
> Regarding the rest of calibration of the calibration discussion, you
> should be able to separate tree-row volume from your calculations which use
> row width, travel speed and gallons-per minute, to establish a gallon per
> acre application rate.  All the growers we work with have variability in
> their row spacing.  Three things we do to address this include minor
> adjustments to travel speed, flipping over/turning on or off spray nozzles,
> and use of spray control systems.  So, lots of ways to skin that cat, but
> we finish and think we have it set up correctly, we verify by hanging those
> water/oil-sensitive cards in the trees and see if we are satisfied with the
> coverage.
>
>
>
> I would never trust a site line on a spray tank and it is easy to put more
> water in a tank than what a tank is labeled to hold. Think about any water
> bottle, the 30 fl. oz. mark is about an inch below the top of the bottle.
> As with a sprayer, if you fill it all the way up, there will be more water
> in it, than what it is labeled to hold.  A good way to check is to
> calculate the GPM flow of the hose you use to fill your sprayer with, then
> just set a timer to accurately fill your tank.  This will help you be sure
> you are putting the correct amount of water in the tank, before you run it
> out through your control block.
>
>
>
> Another helpful website is http://sprayers101.com/airblast101/
>
>
>
> Several years ago we had some money from EPA to go calibrate sprayers.  We
> worked on dozens of spray scenarios and found applicators were applying 52%
> more water, on average, than what they were reporting.  The number of
> broken nozzles, missing screens, etc. was amazing.  So at the very least,
> regardless of what method you use, calibration helps address some of the
> basic maintenance needs of a sprayer, which is helpful in preventing
> breakdowns during that first primary scab infection at green tip.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
> =
>
> Peter Werts
>
> Specialty Crops Project Manager
>
> IPM Institute of North America, Inc.
>
> 211 South Paterson St.
>
> Suite #380
>
> Madison WI 53703
>
> Office: 608 232-1410 <(608)%20232-1410>
>
> Cell: 612 518-0319 <(612)%20518-0319>
>
> Fax: 608 232-1440 <(608)%20232-1440>
>
> pwe...@ipminstitute.org
>
> www.ipminstitute.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Con.Traas
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 2, 2017 9:46 AM
> *To:* 'Apple-Crop discussion list' 
> *Subject:* Re: [Apple-Crop] sprayer calibration debate
>
>
>
> Hello Hal,
>
> I don’t think an additional respirator should be needed. After all, the
> respirator in the tractor cab is the same design (only larger) than the one
> on the oral one.
>
> Regarding the theoretical calibration of sprayers, whenever an inspector
> tells me they to do it with water, and to apply that result to a
>