Re: [Arm-netbook] next step is a boot image
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton writes: > On Thursday, January 12, 2023, Andreas Grapentin > wrote: >> >> I'm curious -- does the old parabola image no longer work?? > > from 2016? unfortunately the MicroSD card with the only > copy destroyed itself. > > i do have a debian/9 image left but it is not in a state > to be used for micro-desktop testing. This seems to have useful tips: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Allwinner I guess we ought to have a page on https://rhombus-tech.net/ for tips on how to get things installed, and either link to that from the debian wiki, or hopefully make the procedure simple enough that it can just be added to one of the lists of boards on the debian page (probably with a link to the rhombus-tech page). While wondering about this, I noticed that the search on rhombus-tech.net was not working, apparently because 'omega' was missing, which turns out to be provided by xapian-omega (I guess that got lost in a upgrade) so I've reinstalled that, which allows one to search the wiki again: https://rhombus-tech.net/ikiwiki.cgi?P=a20 I also notice this page: https://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner/a20/archlinux/ which seems only to be linked from the Sitemap: https://rhombus-tech.net/sitemap/ I'd have thought we want a top-level "Installing" page, with a sub-page for the EOMA68-A20, which could be populated with links and tips, but I'm not sure because the wiki as it is has some structure, but I don't understand it -- for instance, I'd not use a page called "allwinner_a10" for information that turns out to mostly be about the EOMA68-A20, but I know that's for hysterical raisins, so is presumably not easy to change -- I think the wiki needs something to say "Don't worry about the A10 vs. A20 distinction, we started out using the A10, but it's all about A20 now" somewhere, but I'm not sure where. BTW If a mass-renaming is in order, I can do that trivially via git, but I suspect we don't want to break links, so I won't do that unilaterally. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk Configuration, options, subscribe and unsubscribe at: http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to: arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Site updates (was Re: Schematic and PCB layout CAD files)
Paul Boddie writes: > On Monday, 17 June 2019 13:15:18 CET Paul Boddie wrote: >> On Monday 17. June 2019 08.40.22 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: >> > >> > repo that i started 6 years ago: >> > http://git.rhombus-tech.net/?p=eoma.git;a=summary That wasn't working because I'd neglected to add the rhombus name to the git.hands.com certificate, and I'm now serving that with nginx, which I've configured to redirect http to https, so that repository is now served via https which was then breaking with the name mismatch. BTW the most straightforward URL is: https://git.rhombus-tech.net/eoma (which is the same thing as https://git.hands.com/eoma ) > Currently, the above repository is only available securely via the following > address: > > https://git.hands.com/?p=eoma.git;a=summary Yeah, that was down to the certificate, and is now fixed. > Meanwhile, I updated the wiki page describing PCMCIA/CardBus component > details: > > https://rhombus-tech.net/pcmcia_sources/ > > (Thanks for Phil for fixing the wiki!) Glad to see that the new nginx setup seems to be working for people (it's also considerably less load-inducing than the old hybrid nginx/apache setup that left most CGI stuff to apache) If you notice any oddities, please mention them, as I may have missed something in the move. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] OpenPOWER virtual coffee continues every Tuesday UTC 22:00
Alain D D Williams writes: > On Wed, Oct 07, 2020 at 01:49:25PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > >> If you want Mate and do not want systemd, you could start with Devuan and >> install mate as a package. >> Mate is not the default desktop, but it is available. > > I would like LVM on top of Raid-1 (MDADM). I have tried hard, the Linux mint > installer only does LVM if you give it the whole disk. I mirrored 2 disks by > hand, and am installing on top of that - no LVM, so I shall throw it away once > I see if it works. > > Next: try plain Debian. If you want anything complicated regarding RAID/LVM, while it is possible to do via debian-installer, it can be a bit of a pain, especially if you end up needing to drop to a shell to do the twiddly bits, given that the shell in d-i is busybox. Instead, I'd recomend booting grml (a debian live image) which will then a) prove Debian will run nicely on your hardware (given that grml is very close to straight Debian), and give you a full OS with which to configure your disks etc.: https://grml.org/ Look here for docs: https://grml.org/docs/ Reading this might help too: https://grml.org/grml-debootstrap/ > I might be forced back to Centos 8 & Xfce ... if that does LVM on top of raid > - > should do, it works in Centos 6 - but no guarantee. LVM on MD is no problem at all with Debian -- personally I'd recomend creating several partitions on the disks, and then RAID each pair of partitions, and then add the resulting raids into LVM as PVs -- that way you get more choices about what to do when later migrating to bigger disks, or deciding that adding a third disk might be good, say. > Thank goodness for virtual machines as play areas. Definitely. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] OpenPOWER virtual coffee continues every Tuesday UTC 22:00
Hi Alain, Alain D D Williams writes: > Time to upgrade my desktop to be able to run Brave (which does work with > jitsi). Isn't Brave a bit dodgy in parts too? ISTR seeing someone talking about forking it to remove some sort of tiresomeness. If you fancy something completely different, I'm really enjoying using Nyxt as my browser at present. It's a bit rough around the edges, mostly because it's using webkit2gtk which has some issues, but it's got great potential -- it's written in common lisp, and it sort-of emacs for the web (the author actually prefers vi key bindings, so if you're not into emacs that's not necessarily a reason to turn your nose up): https://nyxt.atlas.engineer/ > I have run RedHat/CentOS for 25 years, but Centos 8 comes with Gnome > 3 -- which I hate with a passion. I could install Xfce - but prefer Mate - so > I > am prob going to install Linux Mint - a child of Debian. I knew it would happen eventually -- welcome to the clan :-) Luke's wrong about Mint being exclusively Ubuntu based BTW, as you probably already know, since you state that it's Debian based. In fact it's both -- here's the Debian flavoured version: https://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php > My desktop has mirrored disks. I will break the mirror, install on one disk, > preserve the current installation on the other, run up the current system, run > the new one as a virtual machine, configure it, copy stuff over, then boot the > new system native, test, add the old disk as a mirror to the new system (which > current versions of LVM should let me do). If I were you I wouldn't do the mirroring in LVM, but rather in md. You can create md RAID1s with a missing disk, and then add in a second disk to the raid when you have it available, with no noticeable changes to the configuration. Look in mdadm's man page for: simply give the word "missing" in place of a device name. Not having used the mint installer, I don't know how easy it is to do that at install time though. BTW I'd normally make several partitions on both disks and then raid the partitions, and add those raids as PVs into LVM. That allows one to move things around, and migrate to bigger disks etc. more flexibly than when just mirroring the whole disk, but it takes a bit more work to keep such a setup in order. > I have been putting this off for far too long :-( I imagine it will be a little painful to teach your fingers to type the debian versions of some sysadmin incantations, so I'm sure I'd also put this off if I was migrating in the other direction. Here's hoping that you have fun learning some new tricks. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] Free ASIC fab. for open designs
Hi, This seemed like it might be of intrest to someone here: https://fossi-foundation.org/2020/06/30/skywater-pdk It seems that is a 130nm fab, based in the USA somewhere. It came up in the "Debian Electronics BOF" session at DebConf20 (which is going on this week, as an online event): https://debconf20.debconf.org/talks/86-debian-electronics-bof/ The video of that session should appear within a day or so. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 Computing Devices Update: Command Not Found
David Niklas writes: > https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/command-not-found > > Dear luke, > You didn't need email, you can use wall(1). That dredges up memories of supporting users (via 1200 baud modem, thus occupying the only land line) by communicating via write(1) in each direction, which then lead to the memory of the joy of discovering talk(1) as a better alternative. Thanks for the moment of Proustian nostalgia. :-) Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] How about an opensource nuclear reactor?
Christopher Havel writes: ... > There was a kid a few decades ago who tried to do up a civvie reactor on > his own, some years ago, here in the US. I'm not sure what state... Here you go: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/eagle-scout-nuclear-reactor/ Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Urgent statement on Cryptocurrency ethics
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Philip Hands <p...@hands.com> wrote: > >> I'd like to announce a revolution in data privacy. Individuals can take >> control of their data, and ensure that it doesn't leak into the hands of >> people that they don't want to have it. >> >> Just install PGP. > > hurrah! :) > > so let's think about that case for a minute... PGP/GPG were designed > for encrypting / signing static data. if that was all that was > involved, crypto-currencies would have been replaced by people using > PGP/GPG to sign static text files containing "money" or the digital > representation of the same. You miss my point completely. What I was saying was that we have the existing experiment of a decentralised system, capable of providing a significant benefit to the public, if only they were willing to take some responsibility. We ran the experiment for decades, and the point at which it partially succeeded was when the likes of whatsap provided people with a way of avoiding responsibilty. I therefore suspect that citing benefits of crypto-currencies that will acrue, if only the public would take responsibilty for themselves, is pointless. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Urgent statement on Cryptocurrency ethics
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: > oh. sorry, i forgot to add the other qualifier to > crypto-currencies / blockchain: *individuals* have to take *direct* > responsibility [where previously they could abdicate that > responsibility to a third party / central authority]. if they fail to > take responsibility, they get ripped off [viruses, lost wallet > passwords etc.]. I'd like to announce a revolution in data privacy. Individuals can take control of their data, and ensure that it doesn't leak into the hands of people that they don't want to have it. Just install PGP. Thirty years later, where do the vast majority of people do their crypto? In Google's data centres. Even people that have been using crypto for 30 years almost never actually encrypt their email. I still sign most of mine, but that's really just nostalgia for the time when I still thought that we could expect everyone to end up doing that sort of thing. I'm pretty good at looking after my keys, and would not for instance need to revoke them if you stole my laptop, so am in a tiny minority. Would I be willing to make my current account balance contingent on my not screing that up? NO! and I definitely want a court to go to if my bank tells me they lost track of my money. I think you can be sure that the people will fight viciously to avoid taking any sort of responsibility. See: Facebook & Cambridge Analytica. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Urgent statement on Cryptocurrency ethics
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: > On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 6:15 PM, Jean Flamelle <eaterjo...@gmail.com> wrote: >> This is difficult to express so please bear patience. Able >> manipulators of money do exploit the interest in cryptocurrency to >> affect the prices thereof, > > yep, i know. there's no way to regulate or prevent the blatant > insider trading and pump-and-dump scams. interestingly, mining is > inviolate. I've no idea why you think that -- it seems to me rather like saying that farming poppies is automatically ethical, regardless of whether you expect anyone to harvest the crop and perhaps sell it to people who then profit and spend the resulting income on weapons, say. Anyway, never mind that -- this seems timely: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/20/child-abuse-imagery-bitcoin-blockchain-illegal-content erm, oops! Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Error trying to edit rhombus-tech wiki
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> wrote: > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 10:33 AM, Philip Hands <p...@hands.com> wrote: > >> hopefully the first will speed things up a little, and the latter do no >> harm. > > ok awesome, thanks phil > >> I also note that 'be' (the bug tracker) takes a couple of seconds at the >> end of every site rebuild, which strikes me as a bit slow given the >> lack of recent activity. Luke, are you actually using 'be' at present? > > mmm *stress*... no... but it would be a pain if it was switched > off as i would then have to specifically ask you for it to be > re-enabled. is it ok to leave it? I think it's fine to leave it, but then I don't often edit the wiki. ;-) It's only a second or two, so I doubt it's going to kill anyone to wait. I suspect the git thing will save more than that. If the delay upsets people it _might_ be worth trying to track down the pages that are taking longest to build, and tweak them to be quicker. There are some suggestions on the ikiwiki site about that. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Error trying to edit rhombus-tech wiki
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> wrote: > On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:54 AM, Jean Flamelle <eaterjo...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> The edits still succeed; the page just takes long to update. > > for me the page never gets to the "edit" box because it says "invalid > cgi" within a couple of seconds of pressing the "edit" link. I think that's something that's being cached in your browser. Try reloading that page and/or flushing related browser history. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Error trying to edit rhombus-tech wiki
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> wrote: > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:22 PM, Richard Wilbur > <richard.wil...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Trying to edit wiki page to add my name to list interested in >> pre-production board, et cetera. Is that page privileged? > > nope i have exactly the same error occurring, i'm forcing a rebuild > which i *believe* recreates the cgi script... if it's not fixed it's > something that phil is the person to ask for sorting it out. It is possible that fcgi was upset about something, as restarting that seems to have made things better, but I'm not 100% certain because I changed a couple of other things while I was about it. The other things are: setting ikiwiki to use git to track which files have changed, so that it doesn't need to scan the file system (only_committed_changes). setting it so that if ikiwiki.cgi ends up waiting for locks, it tells you to wait after 10 seconds, and starts retrying (cgi_overload_*) hopefully the first will speed things up a little, and the latter do no harm. I also note that 'be' (the bug tracker) takes a couple of seconds at the end of every site rebuild, which strikes me as a bit slow given the lack of recent activity. Luke, are you actually using 'be' at present? Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018, Pen-Yuan Hsing <penyuanhs...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 16/02/18 11:13, Erik Auerswald wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I did not want to enter this flame war, but I want to point out an >> obvious misunderstanding of the involved parties: >> >> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 02:51:06PM +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: >>> [...] >>> now, it so happens in the case of HDMI that you can simply put an >>> HDMI connector on the product what you CANNOT AND MUST NOT DO is >>> put the *WORD* "HDMI" anywhere on your product, because that has >>> SPECIFIC implications that the seller of that product HAS GONE THROUGH >>> THE CERTIFICATION PROCESS. >> >> Without a "product" and a "seller" there can be no infringement. A hobby >> project can exist and be publicly discussed and documented without being >> either a product or sold. >> >> Over and out, >> Erik > > I didn't want to enter this either. But I'd like to clarify that if it's > copyright we're talking about, I strongly suspect that it is _not_ copyright that we're talking about. Until Luke or someone else points at an authoritative source to show otherwise, I would assume that he's just mixed up several of the barely related branches of law that people unhelpfully lump together under the "Intellectual Property" umbrella term. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018, Hendrik Boom <hend...@topoi.pooq.com> wrote: > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 11:30:49PM -0500, Julie Marchant wrote: >> >> Either that, or perhaps you are referring to some other law which is >> neither copyright nor trademark, and spreading confusion by using two >> wrong terms. > > In Canada, I've been old that standards marks are legally recognissed as > such and are different from either copyright or trademarks. I do not > now how this is elsewhere. IANAL, but I suspect that the confusion arises because Luke is (presumably) the sole copyright holder on the canonical documentation for the standard, so while there is a Certification Mark (which I think is mostly dealt with in line with Trademark law) the thing that defines what the Certification Mark actually means is a copyrighted work. Of course, mixing those things up, and making assertions about being forced to do things by Copyright Law when it was almost certainly meant to be Trademark Law does not help. On the other hand I'd say that Luke has free rein when it comes to moderating or expelling people on this list, so the justification is largely irrelevant ... although being even-handed about it is liable to ensure a better atmosphere amongst those who remain. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
On Tue, 06 Feb 2018, zap <calmst...@posteo.de> wrote: > On 02/06/18 17:15, Tor, the Marqueteur wrote: >> On 02/06/2018 12:01 PM, zap wrote: >> >> >> May-be if Ron says , he means to ask Luke >> >> OR ANY MEMBER, to give an opinion as to whether Luke's ability or >> >> time or opportunity, means that Luke can do that something. If >> >> some one means to convey THAT, I have not noticed any one here >> >> suggest better wording than Ron's wording. But it seems that >> >> persons needed Ron to be more --verbose. :^) Ron, if this is the >> >> meaning, then please confirm. And then may-be, persons will react >> >> as desired, to future uses of such wording. >> > Just my two cents, but this has gotten WAY off topic... >> snip... >> >> Since I'm replying, I can see that the wording "Does anyone know if >> Luke has..." seems more polite and proper is the scheme of things than >> "Has Luke..." >> >> > So yeah, what is the pyra computer again? >> 5" mini laptop/game console, very open as such things go: >> https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/ > Interesting... I see, it looks like a very small laptop kind of like the > size of a nintendo ds... > > all though it has more options, buttons to press, and of course no > crapware/proprietary crap. Also, ludicrous attention to detail -- the previous incarnation took at least an extra 6 months because they didn't like the feel of the gaming nubs and/or their robustness so went through _many_ test versions and suppliers IIRC. If you want an open gaming platform that will survive several generations, this is probably it. (BTW I have no affiliation, and don't even own one as I'm not really into games, but if my kids want such a thing they'll be getting these rather than nintendos). Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] Exclave -- Factory Test Infrastructure
Hi, I just came across this: http://exclave.io/ as mentioned in this LCA2018 talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcyuzB3qLVo and thought that it might be useful for testing EOMA boards. It's cute, as it lets you write tests in whatever works for you, and just pays attention to the last line of output, and the return code. You can knock up a shell script, say, and if you can run it on the command line and get it to work, then exclave can run it for you. This is what is used to run the factory test for Bunnie's chibitronics LoveToCode microcontroller boards, among other things. BTW The LCA talk includes some handy tips on how to make such tests work for factory workers who are not likely to read English, nor to have a lot of time/concentration spare. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Can’t LogIn To Wiki?
On Sun, 28 Jan 2018, Alexander Ross <maillist_arm-netb...@aross.me> wrote: > or is it just me? No, it's not just you -- It seems that nginx had a disagreement with fcgiwrap, and got in a huff about it. I think it's all better now, so give it another try. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] OT: Librem 5?
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Bill Kontos <vkontog...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> nothing in return" my purchase decision will not change. So far all >> that they lied about was the timeframe at which they would ship the >> features, > > nooo, they lied - in a deceptive way Lying in a deceptive way? Surely not! ;-) I think that it's fairly normal practice to omit inconvenient facts in one's publicity, which is what appears to be the case, although it's really hard to tell since I didn't see the material in question, and no citations seem to have been given throughout this discussion, so the whole thing seems rather like a lot of mumbled rumour. I suspect that the EOMA crowdfunding, if subjected to the same level of scrutiny, might also be found wanting. Did it for instance mention your qualifications (or lack thereof) in the field of mechanical engineering, which might be considered a relevant fact when considering funding you to build a laptop from scratch? Is that omission a case of lying, be that in a deceptive way or otherwise? Looking at the publicity for the phone, I note that I know several of people involved with this (unless they are using people's photos without permission, and making up quotes -- which I can always check if that's what people are trying to say). Assuming the endorsements are genuine, then I know these people well enough to know that they'd only endorse something that they genuinely thought to be a good thing, as I'm pretty sure they all know how easy it is to tarnish one's reputation. If there really is something wrong with this project, then point me at actual evidence (rather than a lot of unsubstantiated assertions), and I'll pass that on so that those people can withdraw their support before the crowdfunding succeeds, which should limit the overall damage. If it all just boils down to making the perfect the enemy of the good, then I suggest that you stop shouting "Splitters!" at them for using the word Free when you think they meant Libre, or vice versa, or whatever. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] OT: Librem 5?
Michael Verrenkamp <jabj...@fastmail.com.au> writes: > On 26/09/2017 11:41 AM, zap wrote: >> >> On 09/25/2017 09:30 PM, Tor, the Marqueteur wrote: >>>> without people freaking out against people in power/corporations. >>> From my reading, pirates/piracy as relates to copyright was actually >> Okay, I thought it was something coined by corrupt arrogant specks from >> the 20th century... >> >> my bad. >> ___ >> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk >> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook >> Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk > Found this on Wiki - > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement#.22Piracy.22 > > "Article 12 of the 1886 Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary > and Artistic Works > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and_Artistic_Works> > > uses the term "piracy" in relation to copyright infringement, stating > "Pirated works may be seized on importation into those countries of the > Union where the original work enjoys legal protection." Wow! I really wasn't expecting this thread to produce anything useful. Thanks. I like it when I learn something new. ;-) FWIW I as a Debian Developer of 20+ years standing am pretty committed to Free Software, and have subscribed to things like the OpenMoko and the neo900, disappointingly without it resulting in a phone I can use to date. There was a lot of heat, but not very much light in this thread. Meanwhile I've signed up for one of these phones. I don't have any great expectation that they'll succeed, since I've seen previous attempts fail, but if I end up with a (mostly) Free Software based phone, running a mainstream kernel/distro that is likely to survive the demise of the project, I'll be pretty happy about it. I doubt the chances of that happening will be improved one iota by attempting to make them do things to satisfy people who, when it comes down to it, don't actually want a phone in their pocket, but rather a "100% libre" thing that looks like a phone, but cannot make phone calls unless you plug it into an external dongle (or some such). If you can show me a better project, then I might invest in that too, but in the absence of that I'm willing to put up with the level of non-freeness that is pretty-much inherent in making such a device. The neo900 folk seem to be aiming a little higher, but they also seem to have effectively failed at this point, because they have taken so long that they've lost their opportunity -- there is probably not going to be a vibrant developer community coalescing around a phone that is so far behind the curve and expensive. Also, even if it did become popular somehow, the parts are probably not available for a second run. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] hardware encrypted flash drive idea with gpl3 license
zap <calmst...@posteo.de> writes: ... > also, hardware encryption is far stronger than software encryption. Faster (potentially), maybe less open to side-channel attacks (if properly designed), but I see no reason that the same algorithm implemented in silicon would be any "stronger" than if it were in software. Most of the time, what you're calling hardware is liable to just be software running on a different processor, perhaps in a box that has been glued shut such that it's less convenient for bugs to be found, fixed and patched. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] hardware encrypted flash drive idea with gpl3 license
Christopher Havel <laserhaw...@gmail.com> writes: > Forgive my inevitable naivety with regard to this sort of thing, but can't > gparted create encrypted partitions, and why wouldn't that be secure > enough...? My understanding is that it still takes a few hundred years to > crack AES encryption with a standard PC... and the average criminals who > are likely to blackmail you, I can't imagine they're well funded enough to > buy a supercomputer sufficient to pop the lid on those things in a > reasonably timely fashion. > > Of course, if you piss off the Russian Mob, that's different, at least > potentially... but that's also a comparatively pretty rare circumstance, > I'd think. Obligatory XKCD: https://www.xkcd.com/538/ ;-) Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] riki200 v3 first print: success
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: > On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 9:12 AM, Philip Hands <p...@hands.com> wrote: >> Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: > >>> yep he recommended to the arduino package maintainer that the actual >>> core parts not be glommed together with a runtime and IDE and >>> everything else. >> >> Well, I reacted badly to the Java UI (because it was ludicrously broken >> under tiling window managers -- > > ohh that's right. you use xmonad. written in 1200 lines of haskell > if i recall. fricking awesome and scary at the same time :) > >> the menu required you to click the >> screen elsewhere to get anywhere, and my screen wasn't wide enough to >> click anything on the sub-menus ;-) ), and noticed that it was actually >> possible to use a Makefile, and that there were several Makefiles in >> circulation, so chose what looked to be the most maintained one, and >> suggested that the author pick up the nice features in the other ones, >> and then stuck that together as the arduino-core package. > > cool! > > yyyeah... have you noticed btw that the way they do "finding of > libraries" is... to indiscriminately extend make's "VPATH". all and > any headers, object files, modules, executables... *all* of those are > searched for in *every single one* of the paths. > > if you happen to have the same filename somewhere anywhere in those > paths, you're hosed. > > it's a total global namespace nightmare. gh! wh do > they doo this! > > >> As it happens, I fired up my arduino for the first time since doing the >> arduino-core uploads last week -- My 5 year old daughter and I are >> knocking up something to drive some LEDs and a motor in order to make >> her IKEA kitchen have a working turntable in the microwave, and a blue >> LED to simulate water coming out of the tap, etc. > > ha, cool! yeah i bought something called a "Sparki" robot for me and > lilyana to play with. which was for about... 2 days. the GUI on that > however i have to say is extremely cool. it's block-based like a > jigsaw, and it auto-generates actual code which you can then look at > to see if it does what you expected. Sounds somewhat like scratch. Also in the same vein is the thing from microsoft: 'makecode', that the Love To Code folk at chibitronics are using in conjunction with the Chibi Chip: https://makecode.chibitronics.com/ makecode also supports other microcontrollers boards, it seems: https://makecode.com/ The chibi chip is one of Bunnie's projects, for making it easy to do clever stuff with circuits made out of sticky copper tape and stick-on LEDs and sensors -- I'm awaiting one in the post, having found a UK based seller last week: https://chibitronics.com/shop/love-to-code-chibi-chip-cable/ Bunnie gave a nice talk about it at CCC last year: https://archive.org/details/media.ccc.de-33c3-7975-making_technology_inclusive_through_papercraft_and_sound (for which I happened to be on Main Camera, in the video team filming it) I particularly like his Sauerkraut analogy about always getting the same outcome if you start with the same ingredients. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] riki200 v3 first print: success
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 10:15 AM, Elena ``of Valhalla'' > <valhall...@trueelena.org> wrote: >> On 2017-09-18 at 07:07:04 +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: >>> the entire arduino software ecosystem was never designed to actually >>> give people proper access to the hardware. anything that's a 180mb >>> download and requires a 200mb runtime environment to compile and >>> upload an executable that's only 16k in size *really* isn't going to >>> end well. >> >> Well, IIRC they do bundle gcc(-avr), which tends to be quite big, but >> doesn't really need to be downloaded again if you already have it from >> your distribution, and the runtime environment is only needed if you >> want to use their IDE instead of your favourite editor + a Makefile (and >> there is (was?) at least one example Makefile somewhere in the arduino >> package). > > yehyeh... it wasn't always like that. > >> Looking at the installed sizes on debian (which has an older version for >> license reasons) I see that the libraries are about 6½MB and the IDE >> itself is just 1½MB. > > phil was instrumental in arranging that. > >> https://packages.debian.org/sid/arduino-core >> https://packages.debian.org/sid/arduino > > yep he recommended to the arduino package maintainer that the actual > core parts not be glommed together with a runtime and IDE and > everything else. Well, I reacted badly to the Java UI (because it was ludicrously broken under tiling window managers -- the menu required you to click the screen elsewhere to get anywhere, and my screen wasn't wide enough to click anything on the sub-menus ;-) ), and noticed that it was actually possible to use a Makefile, and that there were several Makefiles in circulation, so chose what looked to be the most maintained one, and suggested that the author pick up the nice features in the other ones, and then stuck that together as the arduino-core package. Then we worked out how to make the arduino package play nicely with that, in order to remove the duplication, so ironically I'm now an uploader on both, including the Java bits, despite the fact that my only motivation at the start was driven by my aversion to Java. As it happens, I fired up my arduino for the first time since doing the arduino-core uploads last week -- My 5 year old daughter and I are knocking up something to drive some LEDs and a motor in order to make her IKEA kitchen have a working turntable in the microwave, and a blue LED to simulate water coming out of the tap, etc. I was actually using the IDE for that (which now works with Xmonad) just for expediency, but this reminds me that I should use it as an excuse to make sure that arduino-core still works. > http://reprap.org/wiki/RD3D/1.0 Cool :-) BTW you called it 'R3D3' in the penultimate paragraph. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] severe systemd bugs (two of them)
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: > On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Elena ``of Valhalla'' ... > the heavy usage of d-bus for the openmoko OS basically was part of > what killed the project. it would not surprise me at all to find that > d-bus is similarly slowing systemd down when compared to other init > systems. The way that d-bus was used in OpenMoko was astonishing, and is really not something one can use to criticise d-bus in general. Not that I'm trying to say that d-bus is particulalry lovely, but what you're doing here is like saying that micrometer screw guages are rubbish becuase you once saw someone using one as a hammer, and they hurt their thumb. The program that ran most of OpenMoko was written on the assumption that it would be very soon replaced by separate components that would all pass messages around via d-bus (a stupid design, given the hardware), then time ran out and that prototype was what shipped. The result being that if one got an incoming call, it would provoke a cascade of (IIRC 7) d-bus interactions that were all being answered by call-backs in the single program that was doing everything. Each one went via a kernel context switch (or two?), dumping the cache, and that meant that it would take at least 5 seconds for the ringer to start ringing after a call came in, a few more seconds to show you the screen with the answer button, a second or two for your mad tapping to be noticed, during which the accelerometer would realise that it needed to swap portrait for landscape (repainting the "cancel" button where the "answer" used to be) and then finally it would process your demented attempts to answer the sodding thing as a call rejection. Marvelous. Enrico Zini worked all that out, and then knocked up a very short script that waited for calls, made the ringer ring, and looked out for a button press on the physical button -- that allowed it to behave quite like a phone with no fuss. If anyone wants an OpenMoko, I have one going cheap :-/ Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] systemd nonsense ad-infinitum
zap <calmst...@posteo.de> writes: > Sorry but I have to challenge you on this, it isn't right for systemd to > be the only init that can be used on debian by default. >> There is no "forcing" or "requiring" involved, and people spouting this >> bullshit is getting _really_ old now. >> >> If any such radical change had actually been enacted then: >> >> a) well, we'd be in a different universe, where Debian was run by some >> sort of overlord who was prone to making snap decisions on a whim. >> >> b) there would have been a mass bug filing for all these packages that >> did not require systemd, to somehow add that requirement. >> >> c) there would have then been a vast wave of new package uploads with >> the new packages, encumbered with those requirements. >> >> NONE OF THIS HAPPENED. > > Incorrect sorry but I am not sure where you get your info from. I'm not sure what you're expecting me to say. I pay attention to the uploads. I've been a Debian Developer for over 2 decades. I was there since before all this started on the mailing lists. I'm vaguely aware of the extent to which things depend on things. Actually, let's try a very rough estimate on "stretch" (the new release): for p in systemd libsystemd0 libselinux1 libc6 ; \ do apt-cache rdepends \ --no-suggests --no-conflicts --no-breaks --no-replaces $p \ | grep '^ ' | sort -u | wc -l ; \ done 34 144 133 19816 Note that libselinux1 (which is pretty much equivalent to libsystemd0 in its purpose) is almost as widely depended upon as libsystemd0, and that they are both two orders of magnitude less depended upon than libc6. _That_ is why I reacted badly to your "forced to require" assertion. I'll admit that there are recursive dependencies that spread that net quite a lot wider, but also those numbers include the likes of sogo where the dependency is: Depends: libc6 (>= 2.14), libcurl3-gnutls (>= 7.16.2), libgcc1 (>= 1:3.0), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.14.0), libgnustep-base1.24 (>= 1.24.7), libgnutls30 (>= 3.5.0), liblasso3 (>= 2.5.0), libmemcached11, libobjc4 (>= 4.6), libsbjson2.3, libsope1 (>= 3.2.6), init-system-helpers (>= 1.18~), tmpreaper | systemd, sogo-common (= 3.2.6-2), adduser, zip, lsb-base (>= 3.0-6) so here systemd is depended upon only as an alternative to tmpreaper. If you want better numbers, feel free to work them out yourself, but I'd hope that you'll manage to understand from this that there has not been a policy change to "force" packages to "require" (or as we'd call it "depend") upon systemd, or even libsystemd0. Oh, and not that it matters, as I wasn't there when the Debian Technical Committee made its decision to choose systemd as the default, but I would have made the same decision if I had been on the committee then, and these days I am: https://www.debian.org/intro/organization#tech-ctte so, if that doesn't qualify me to comment on happenings in Debian in your eyes, I'm not quite sure what would. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] systemd nonsense ad-infinitum
zap <calmst...@posteo.de> writes: >> Indeed, volunteer time is seriously limited, and there are things that >> are just beyond what can be expected from them. >> >> E.g. if a mayor DE would start requiring systemd to work, Debian would >> not be in the position to fork it, but that doesn't mean that >> non-systemd users will be forced to migrate to systemd, just that they >> would have to use one of the many other DE available in Debian. >> >> ¹ this is not that unlikely, however: there have been a number of calls >> for help because the numbers of complaints on the mailing list is much >> higher than the number of people actually giving even a tiny bit of help >> in ensuring that sysvinit continues to be tested and supported in >> Debian, and if nobody tests it, eventually it will bitrot and stop >> working. >> > That is why, runit and openrc are badly needed as options but no matter > what, the developers of debian had no right to force all packages to > require systemd if they are calling their distro "universally free or > free software" because that is the opposite of how free software is > supposed to work. WTAF? There is no "forcing" or "requiring" involved, and people spouting this bullshit is getting _really_ old now. If any such radical change had actually been enacted then: a) well, we'd be in a different universe, where Debian was run by some sort of overlord who was prone to making snap decisions on a whim. b) there would have been a mass bug filing for all these packages that did not require systemd, to somehow add that requirement. c) there would have then been a vast wave of new package uploads with the new packages, encumbered with those requirements. NONE OF THIS HAPPENED. Debian didn't even make it so that other inits were somehow downgraded, except for the fact that sysvinit is no longer the default on those platforms where systemd actually exists (so on other platforms it's not even the default, and most packages happily build on _all_ platforms, so how does that sit in the same universe as one where systemd is "required"?) In fact Debian instead made efforts (much of the effort being done by the Debian systemd maintainers) to make sure that is was actually rather easier to switch between inits. The systemd folk even wrote extra code to make sure that sysvinit and other inits could continue to support programs where the upstreams have decided that they want to depend on the services that systemd provides. That strikes me as above and beyond the call of duty. What thanks do they get for it? They get unending inchoate screaming about how they are part of some sort of global conspiracy, until they started burning out. The result being that they no longer have time, and certainly have no inclination, to support systemd-shim, and the useless wankers that did all the screaming of course cannot be arsed to put any effort into it, so it's now rotting, and the chances of being able to continue using other inits in Debian are now beginning to diminish. This is NOT because anyone forced anyone to do anything. If people were to decide not to post another anti-systemd rant, and instead do something as trivial as reporting a single bug where non-systemd-as-init was causing a problem, then there would be some hope of making sure that other inits continue to work, but from what I can see that is not happening. Instead people are spreading lies and scuttling off to the likes of Devuan (who are also not addressing the issues, because they are not improving application portability, because it's impossible to have Devuan _with_ systemd). Also, note that Debian is still going to the effort of making choice possible -- other ditros that switched have made the rather more sensible choice of supporting only systemd, and thus saving themselves the effort of supporting the minority inits. I imagine that's why people are still bothering to attack Debian on this since they imagine that there's a slim chance that we might switch again, but what you have now is definitely the best you're going to get. As a parent of two small children I can tell you that screaming never gets rewarded, and my children if they scream long enough will either both lose the toy they are fighting over, or have something they like even less happen to them -- I think that's pretty much the mindset that most Debian Developers have adopted to people howling about systemd, so be warned: Life can always get worse, and if you don't want that, stop screaming and put some effort into building the world as you'd like it to exist. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY __
Re: [Arm-netbook] severe systemd bugs (two of them)
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: > On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 9:26 AM, Philip Hands <p...@hands.com> wrote: > >> Might I ask in response: What the hell are you doing not fact checking >> this before repeating it? > > because in the scheme of programs-that-constitute-systemd it really > doesn't matter, phil. ... Are you aware of confirmation bias? Might I recommend this book to you: http://www.pinterandmartin.com/irrationality.html (I see there's a new edition, which I've just ordered as the update is almost certainly as interesting as the original. So, thanks for giving me a reason for looking up the canonical URL -- I look forward to re-reading it :-) ) Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] severe systemd bugs (two of them)
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: > https://it.slashdot.org/story/17/07/03/0343258/severe-systemd-bug-allowed-remote-code-execution-for-two-years > > two years. that's how long one of these bugs has been in systemd. > *via a remote network*. what the hell is an init system doing being > accessible *via DNS queries*? If you read the summary of the article to the second line, you'll note that it is talking about 'systemd-resolved' -- so not the init at all. Yes, I know that it was stupid to call all these disparate bits of the SystemD project systemd-$whatever, becuase it's just asking for people to do what you just did, but I really expect _you_ to understand that there is more than one executable involved in systemd, and that not all of them can possibly run as process 1, all at once. On my fairly default stretch laptop, systemd-resolved is not running. On free.hands.com, to which you have access, it is also not running. So, to answer your qustion, well, it isn't ... obviously. Might I ask in response: What the hell are you doing not fact checking this before repeating it? It's not as though this is the first time that an anti-systemd story has been spun to the point of becoming nonsense. I'd imagine that this has managed to go undetected for so long because most people have no interest in running this program on anything but containers (which is what it's for AFAIK) and that anyone sensible is firewalling those containers to make sure that the only DNS server they talk to is the one they control that is running on the physical host. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68-A20 2.7.4 pre-production prototypes received and working
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: > .On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 9:35 AM, mike.v...@gmail.com > <mike.v...@gmail.com> wrote: >> 2017-06-17 11:17 GMT+02:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net>: >>> On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 8:40 PM, mike.v...@gmail.com >>> <mike.v...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Bleh. It looked so pretty in my mind. ;-( >>> >>> i knoow... btw can you possibly investigate why, when you hit >>> "reply", the ">"s are not added? >> >> I was using gmail in HTML mode, apparently. I've found a switch. >> Hopefully this works better. > > it does. yay! > >> N.B. Was this a problem before the auto HTML conversion on the list? > > yes. i am constantly having to hand-edit people's replies to add > line-breaks. it's been amazingly tedious. Hi Luke, Does whatever is your favoured editor not have a widget for that sort of thing? In notmuch+emacs one is editing mails in emacs Message mode, which means you can re-wrap a paragraph, with the quotes being done as one would hope, by simply hitting M-q (Alt-q on my keyboard) when in the offending paragraph. While one could spend one's life trying to teach people how these things were generally done in the '80s, I came to the conclusion that the steady influx of Internet newbies meant that became a Sisyphean task some time in the '90s, and then got significantly worse when Microsoft inflicted a mail client on the world that punishes people for using email the way we'd prefer. Using better tools seems likely to be the shorter route to inner calm. Having said that, I did try to persuade Ron to edit out the 'Original Message' line of his mails, since that makes emacs ignore the whole mail as an empty top-post. He managed to do it a couple of times before the strain became too much, so he was trying before he became trying ;-) On the plus side, people that resolutely stick to talking in their own preferred style, rather than taking into account the preferred style of their audience, helpfully tag themselves as not being worth one's time. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Side-Topic: Liberating PocketCHIP
John Luke Gibson <eaterjo...@gmail.com> writes:
> On 5/9/17, Benson Mitchell <benson.mitchell+arm-netb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Seems like you're confusing back-quote (`) with single-quote ('), maybe?
>>
> I just want to say that alone makes for pretty terrible design within
> a fundamental language which an entire os can't run without.
When `` was first used I'm sure they were very pleased to have come up
with command substitution at all, so blaming them for introducing
readability issues is a bit harsh. It's also possible that the
distinction between ` and ' was much more obvious when one was reading
the code off of a punched paper tape ;-)
$() has been in POSIX for at least 13 years:
http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/xcu_chap02.html#tag_02_06_03
but I suspect that it was in 1003.2 in 1997, but cannot find a
reference.
It is certainly a shame when one sees new scripts being written with ``,
but that's what one gets when people are learning by example, and there
is too little curation of the examples to weed out the archaic usage.
Cheers, Phil.
--
|)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd.
|-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/
|(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] ZeroPhone
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: > On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 1:43 AM, John Luke Gibson <eaterjo...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> A more perfect solution (longterm) would be a network with >> self-modulating scarcity of addresses, in a fashion reminiscent of > > it's always been a long-term goal of mine to create some form of > globally-scalable wireless mesh network. to that end i tracked down a > copy of the IEEE 802.22 standard as it represents the best foundation > that computer scientists have yet developed, tested and deployed. > range of mobile units: 5km. range of static (base station) units: > 60km. Before you spend too much time on reinventing wheels (and discovering that some theoretically perfect wheels turn or to be a bit square when confronted with reality), you should take a good at existing deployments of mesh wireless. Freifunk in Germany is rather popular, and works rather well (although it generally is not making very many wireless links before it hits a wired uplink. https://map.hamburg.freifunk.net/ There's the Serval Project in AU/NZ where they've done quite a lot of testing of a self-assembling phone system that uses peer-to-peer WiFi between phones -- their expectations that one ought to be able to make phone calls have been mostly ditched IIRC, as they found that it works much better if they use store-and-forward of SMS for most communication. http://www.servalproject.org/ Related to that, there's https://villagetelco.org/ http://battlemesh.org/ is also something to keep an eye on. Obviously, using longer range radios to run that on is a nice idea, but probably not the hard bit. BTW, I notice that in Hamburg there are people getting 5km+ range out of off-the-shelf TP-Link outdoor wifi units that cost less than 40 EUR at each end (that's what some of the longer lines are, at the south of the map above -- you can click the lines to find out). Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] A suggestion why Systemd may be bad
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 9:12 AM, Philip Hands <p...@hands.com> wrote: >> Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: >> >>> if systemd is so bloated and all-encompassing that it in effect >>> demands *all* privileges (it doesn't, but you know what i mean), it >>> utterly defeats the object of having the security system in the first >>> place. >> >> This appears to be another instance of you conflating the init process >> with the project, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. >> >> Are you claiming that systemd (the init) uses forks where sysvinit uses >> execs? > > i don't know how you conclude i would say that when i don't mention > sysvinit. why would there be an implication of sysvinit being > involved when it's not mentioned? Well, if you're saying that systemd is bad, it must be bad relative to something else since if the nearest likely alternative e.g. sysvinit does pretty-much the same thing then you're really saying very little. The Daily Mail will cheerfully tell you that Coffee causes cancer, which is probably true, but only at about the same rate as pretty much everything else one could imagine consuming, so ... no news. > i'm saying that SE/Linux's security model is based on the isolation > of exec. but, that if the sheer overwhelming number of programs being > exec'd is so huge, it becomes pretty pointless to even *have* such > isolation. Systemd execs a lot of things by dint of it being the system's init, does it not? This sounds almost like you're claiming that SElinux isn't capable of modeling any implementation of the init task. That's why I was trying to tease out something about what makes this unique to sytemd from you. Hence the mention of sysvinit. > i provide this as a guide *without* spending the time to assess > actual instances... because it's not my job to do so. and, also, with > the sheer overwhelming number of *other* factors (all of them > individually low-probability events), when combined using > demster-shafer information theory, you don't *need* to go in-depth: to > do so is completely pointless. > > basically i'm saying, phil, knocking down one skittle by spending the > time to track down one "hole" in what i say, is pointless. the entire > design and deployment of systemd is like a dam made of swiss cheese. > > there simply aren't enough fingers to plug all the hundreds of > flaws... so there's little point in trying. this response (one of a > long line of reasons why i will never *ever* use systemd) is just one > response from a different angle, one that i have had at least one > person publicly express gratitude for taking the time to explain, and > one privately. who knows well enough and is old enough and ugly > enough *not* to get involved in the cluster-fuck known as systemd. I'm not trying to knock down skittles -- I'm trying to see whether what you're saying has any substance behind it, or is simply hand waving. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] A suggestion why Systemd may be bad
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: > if systemd is so bloated and all-encompassing that it in effect > demands *all* privileges (it doesn't, but you know what i mean), it > utterly defeats the object of having the security system in the first > place. This appears to be another instance of you conflating the init process with the project, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Are you claiming that systemd (the init) uses forks where sysvinit uses execs? Surely in order to use exec as an init, one must first fork in order to avoid no longer having an init process, so what exactly are you trying to say here? Does systemd fork all its subordinate processes? A very quick glance at the source reveals this: http://sources.debian.net/src/systemd/232-18/CODING_STYLE/?hl=342#L342 which suggests that they are at least generally intending to avoid what you're talking about. Perhaps you can cite some examples where they've failed in that quest. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] A suggestion why Systemd may be bad
John Luke Gibson <eaterjo...@gmail.com> writes: > Perhaps it is the idea that a linux machine should be wholly modular > and attaching a library to a critical component of the system, > shouldn't be a viable strategy for popularizing one's work. > > When a distro is forced to carry a package due to a dependency of a > dependency, or any magnitude there of, it breaks a core separation of > power there. The users depend on distro's to provide reliable > packages, however if a package is intentionally interweaving files to > make these dependencies simply a part of the file and therefore > robbing the distro's the ability to choose a different dependency > should another developer or team thereof prove more reliable or more > suited for their distro. > > Systemd in this sense would be like microsoft robbing those wishing to > distinguish themselves of the ability by increasing the magnitude of > difficulty in doing so. > > Now, keep in mind, I am not fluent in any programming language and > have not audited Systemd, nor do I know anyone who has. This is based > on a compiled understanding of observations expressed in arguments > both infavor and against Systemd. Which is why it does not actually add anything, sadly. In Debian we've made sure that one can run without systemd (the init replacement) as init. We actually have support for non-linux kernels, which therefore do not support systemd, which is not portable, so chances are that Debian will continue to support systems that do not have systemd as init. Under the umbrella of systemd (the project) one finds other separate components such as journald and loggind. These are separate components that one could individually replace if there were viable alternatives. They are separate in the traditional unix-like, do one thing well style that people complain about systemd not following. One set of alternatives to these components used to be mostly provided by the various Kits, like ConsoleKit which does pretty much the same thing as loggind. These alternatives have mostly rotted on the vine since the systemd efforts turned up. Blaming systemd for providing software that is better, to the extent that people switch away from the previously available components, does not strike me as overly reasonable. People that care about the lack of alternatives probably ought to start doing something about that, instead of complaining about it. It is not worthwhile to expect people that work on (or who prefer) systemd to also work on those alternatives that they do not use. As it happens, the Debian systemd folk went beyond the call of duty by coming up with the systemd-shim package, which makes it more easily possible to avoid systemd as init. Understanably they are not particularly motivated to carry maintenance for that forever, and sadly nobody else seems moved to step forward. So that package is currently orphaned, waiting for a maintainer to pick it up. Of course, once the likes of ConsoleKit have rotted, the modern desktops are left with little alternative but relying on logind to provide this functionality, at which point the popular distros end up with an implicit dependency on at least some components provided by the systemd project. That still is not a hard dependency on systemd-the-init-running-as-PID-1 It is also not something that was forced on anyone. Most distros have decided that maintaining the option to run other inits is really not worth the effort, since there's not much benefit, and certainly it introduces bugs one didn't need to experience. I hope I've got that at least broadly right, since I'm neither a systemd enthusiast, nor a systemd hater. My own systems are generally set up to need me to run sudo mount rather than having ConsoleKit/logind determine that I'm logged in, and so can do that by clicking something, so I'm not really the target audience of GUI users that need all these extra components (which are part of systemd the project, but sod all to do with what I might run as init) Having people confuse systemd the project with systemd the init, and the running of the init as a normal user process with running it as PID1, and then insisting that getting rid of libsystemd0 is important for some reason, makes the water so muddy that anyone that's been paying attention to this subject for any time at all is _very_ bored by it by now. Can we stop please? Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Logging and journaling
Elena ``of Valhalla'' <valhall...@trueelena.org> writes: > On 2017-02-11 at 17:47:18 +0100, Philip Hands wrote: >> > https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2016-2118 >> >> That should be: >> >> https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2016-10156 > > uops, thanks, big duckduckgoing-fail on my part > > (I searched for the CVE number + debian, and didn't check that I was > actually opening the right one) np -- I'd done exactly the same thing earlier and was surprised when then getting to a CVE for Samba -- clearly duckduckgo were trying to be helpful by showing us a vulnerability that actually existed on Debian ;-) Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Logging and journaling
Elena ``of Valhalla'' <valhall...@trueelena.org> writes: > On 2017-02-11 at 13:21:05 +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: >> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/24/systemd_flaw/ >> >> "Newer" versions of systemd deployed by Fedora or Ubuntu have been >> secured, but Debian systems are still running an older version and >> therefore need updating. > > Debian backports (when possibile) security fixes to the packages they > distribute; a quick check for the CVE listed in that article shows that > most debian systems should be fine: > > https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2016-2118 That should be: https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2016-10156 Note the "" against all releases. The "fixed" in the status column actually means "didn't need fixing in the first place" in this instance AFAIK. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Logging and journaling
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: > https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/24/systemd_flaw/ > > "Newer" versions of systemd deployed by Fedora or Ubuntu have been > secured, but Debian systems are still running an older version and > therefore need updating. You appear to be in full confirmation-bias mode when it comes to systemd, and thus will accept any criticism of systemd as truth without applying any critical thinking at all. That makes your signal to noise ratio on this subject _really_ poor. In this particular case, the vunlerability was in systemd v228. No release version of Debian has ever shipped that version. The version in Debian stable is 215-17+deb8u6 -- so was never vulnerable. That's why there's no DSA (Debian Security Alert) related to this. Of course, I don't know why I'm bothering to point this out. As I said, confirmation bias means that none of you that despise systemd will take the slightest notice, and I see that recent sociological research shows that doing things like debunking Trump's unusual versions of reality actually hardens the views of his supporters, becuase people are cheerful to assume that the source of the critism is fatally biased, and then spend mental effort on contradicting what is being said by coming up with counter-arguments, which they then remeber for later. *sigh* Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 In A Intel Card World?
Parobalth <paroba...@gmail.com> writes: ... > For example Debian uses a dual licensed logo with > an "open use logo" and a restricted-use logo for use by the Debian > Project and its members only. ... and I'd strongly recommend against doing the same. The way that came about was that the original vote had the logos the other way around, and quite a lot of people thought they were voting for the paint-brush swirl as the one that would be easy to use. Immediately after the vote it became clear to them that the smooth-swirl + bottle was the one that was the more liberal use license, and there was much gnashing of teeth, so we then had another vote to swap them. So now most people are completely unaware of the restricted use logo: https://www.debian.org/logos/#restricted-use It's a mess, but either were better than Captain Blue-Eye (a.k.a the deranged chicken), and also much better than the alternatives IMO. While we're on the subject though, one reason it was such a mess was that people failed to understand what a logo was, and insisted on including text in the logo ... which I just did too ... Oops! There are very few logos that include text and are also widely recognised. There's Coke's (with it's Spencerian script), there's IBM, with the stripy font) and that's about it. The Debian competition can be seen here -- the rules were pretty sane: https://www.debian.org/News/1999/19990204.en.html even if many of the submissions ignored them completely, and the ensuing argument was pretty unedifying -- as was often our way back then :-/ Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 In A Intel Card World?
Parobalth <paroba...@gmail.com> writes: > On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 08:53:33PM +, Peter Carlson wrote: >> Great effort into putting this together. >> I like the logo my only comment is that vertical reading really turns >> some >> people off. Don't know what it would look like horizontal but worth a >> look, >> > Yes, I agree with you. I have been making some drafts with horizontal > "EOMA68-text" > but not with the blue circle. I asked myself if horizontal text would be > better but then decided so send it as it is. > I am going to try out a horizontal version as soon as I have more > feedback. Could one perhaps use the E as a representation for the socket. Perhaps someone with graphical skills would like to take inspiration from: ***** * O +----+ ** M | 68 | * A ++ * Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Intel at CES
Alain Williams <a...@phcomp.co.uk> writes: > I wonder where they got the idea from: > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38515472 > > http://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/compute-card/intel-compute-card.html That's _very_ light on details, and I note that they're careful not to show the business end of the socket -- so is that the old tactic of an incumbent announcing vapourware in order to try and kill interest in a disruptive product that they would prefer not to have on the market? Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] offlineimap syncing off of gmail...
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: > after trying for 90 minutes to connect to accounts.google.com last > night, with over twenty refreshes, finally obtaining just the HTML of > a page then having to spend ANOTHER hour just to get the matching > CSS... only to run into HTTP proxy problems and having to clear the > cache and DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN > > ... i'm absolutely sick and tired of the fucking fucked internet here, > how it's interfering with my ability to communicate, get source code > and much more. > > so, i'm converting to offline imap, setting up the "prayer webmail" > client, a cyrus imap server, and syncing everything to my laptop now i > have the spare space on the 500GB SSD. If you can deal with emacs, have a look at notmuch Even if you cannot -- you should probably have a look at notmuch (there's a vim-based thingumy, and there are other front ends too) > the only thing is... well... look at the numbers: > > Folder INBOX [acc: lkcl]: > Copy message UID 143 (98/155030) Remote:INBOX -> Local > Folder INBOX.bak.sent [remote name [Gmail]/Sent Mail] [acc: lkcl]: > Copy message UID 307 (116/55244) Remote:[Gmail]/Sent Mail -> Local > Folder INBOX.bak.flagged [remote name [Gmail]/Starred] [acc: lkcl]: > Copy message UID 508 (161/3185) Remote:[Gmail]/Starred -> Local > Folder INBOX.bak.important [remote name [Gmail]/Important] [acc: lkcl]: > Copy message UID 296 (114/51381) Remote:[Gmail]/Important -> Local > > that's nearly 10 GIGABYTES of mail over a ten year period (i created > the gmail account in 2006 when i was running out of space on my laptop > to hold all the email i had in mutt Maildirs). > > 55 *thousand* messages in the "sent mail" folder. a hundred and fifty > five thousand in the inbox. > > after hacking offlineimap so that it would only use HTTPS proxy for > connecting to accounts.google.com but would connect direct to > imap.gmail.com (using a fixed IP address because the china government > MODIFIES the DNS entries to point to the wrong locations...) > > ... i was able to initiate the download / sync process. connectivity > is so fucking slow it's about one message every... two to five > seconds. at this rate it's going to take TWO HUNDRED hours to sync > the entire mailbox. that's ten DAYS for god's sake. > > we may actually have to go stay in a hotel in hong kong (where they > have a 100 mbytes / sec internet connection) just so i can sync all > the email. If you point notmuch at that it'll say something like: 523,567 mails, that's not much mail... and you'll be able to do similar searchy things to what you probably got used to with google. I tend to shunt my inbox into an archive directory so that I can use dumb imap on my phone and not need to fill the phone with 110k of mails, but I know I've got more mail than you're talking about, and searches return useful results in sub-second mostly. % find ./Maildir -type f | wc -l 559007 % du -hs Maildir 12G Maildir Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] aorus x3 plus v6
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: > ( ... thank you phil for sending privately that evaluation report you > did of their work). *sigh* "evaluation report" makes it sound much grander than what I'd call it, which would be something like "a few random thoughts that popped into my head while glancing at some git history to see if there was anything useful there" I certainly did not do any sort of general scientific survey of what they're up to, and did say that to you Luke -- I just didn't want to waste people's time on this list with such obviously off-topic stuff. In case anyone cares: I was looking at some bits of debian-installer that have been forked by Devuan, to see what they've done and whether there was anything that could be picked up in by Debian. I was prompted to do so by a conversation on #neo900. I did _not_ spend a lot of time on this. There is no secret evaluation report circulating in Debian circles. This is not a conspiracy. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Debian GNU/Linux, nonfree software, and FSF's free distros list
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <l...@lkcl.net> writes: ... > the FSF's position there covers *everyone else*, who, by definition, > cannot trust or be trusted to follow explicit written or verbal > instructions, cannot cope with a command-line prompt, cannot > comprehend the consequences of their actions, does not understand or > read "terms and conditions" and so on. Right, so hardly Debian's target audience then. It's all very well having something to cater to the non-technical folk, and I applaud the effort, but you'll note that almost all of the "Libre" OSs are actually Debian based, and if you made Debian unusable on most of the hardware that Debian developers actually use (or are paid by their employers to use) then all you'd do is make sure that they use something else, so you wouldn't have the same mindshare in Debian, and would end up with Debian being as poorly maintained as most of the "libre" things you apparently wish we'd emulate. The fact that some of the "libre" OSs base themselves on Ubuntu strikes me as particularly deranged, given that Ubuntu is actually a step further away from what they want, but there you go. So, sure, use a Libre OS of you like the compromises they make, but be aware that the main reason that you have the chance to do so is that Debian has made different compromises in order to be popular enough to be the default upstream for Linux, and thus has made it possible for someone to create the Libre OS that you are running. Giving us grief about ethics will not make things better for you. When I got into Free Software, the way you ran things was to spend three days recompiling GCC on your proprietary UNIX(TM) OS, followed by perl etc. -- How useful would it have been to be purist about things then? The place where one can draw the line has been slowly pushed towards the hardware, but pretending that the masses are currently able or interested in running on truly free hardware does not make it true. It might even sabotage the effort to make it possible. After all, most people are firmly clutching their android devices, totally unaware that there's Free software inside, without even a temptation to look under the surface. It seems to me that we're all progressing towards the same destination, even if via slightly differing routes. Reenacting "The Life of Brian's" Splitters scene is just a way of not getting on with something useful instead -- please give it a rest. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
