Re: [arr] Re: Can someone define living up to ARR's own standards?
the 3 tracks i ve listed are in reference to the 5 u said are difficult to LIKE On Jan 28, 2008 2:42 AM, Vijay Iyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Rano, i definitely do agree to the 'generation' gap herewhoa !! and to think the only generation gap was between elders who used to listen to MSV and others and us lot who rediscovered film music with A R R..a lot of people who have tuned in to A R R s music should go back and listen to ALL his stuff between 92 and 97 I tried hard to replay all the songs in my mind and came up with these 3 for now..PAROTA PAROTA from Vandi Cholai Chinrasu, YEDUKU PONDATI from Keezaku Cheemayile and KOKU SAIDE KOKU from Muthu.all 3 are very very situational but very very 'different'..there was a phase where moviemakers and lyricists tried to overdo the jeans pant baggy pant bit (started from gentleman and then hit the pits with the track onu rendu moona da...from pudhiya manargal...notice the 1st stanza where the words jeans and baggy are used and the tune seems so completely in contrast !) and also overdose of elderly voices (again started from roja and then the track in muthu which ive mentioned above). On a different note, i ve been literally humming IN LAMHON KE DAMAN..from jodhaa and accidentally slipped into the interlude of SITIRA NILAVU from Vandi Cholai..if someone could mix and match and cut and paste, id love to hear how it would sound...me thinks it would fit perfectly atleast before the stanza where Madhushree starts off -Vijay On Jan 27, 2008 11:12 AM, Ranojoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me try to explain. For the first 5 years, between 1992 and 1996, almost none of the people here or ANYWHERE will be able to find 5 A R songs that they didn't like. Out of 25-30 albums. That's a high standard. Every phrase, every intro, every verse is astounding from that period. In Guru, the first interlude from Barso Re is phenomenal and no other composer is capable of that kind of music, and many fans think that A R is capable of sustaining that sort of quality over the length of the entire album, which may or may not happen because the songs are extremely situational nowadays. It is RIDICULOUS for anyone here to say that one cannot criticize this aspect of Rahman's music or that, because there are many many fans who have been there since the first song of A R R ever aired and before, and have a right to express their feelings. I am curious to know how old some of you are, because there seems to be a generational gap developing in this group :) --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com arrahmanfans%40yahoogroups.com, Chord [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hear this phrase over and over and over in reviews. What does that mean exactly? Is it purely subjective or are there elements of Rahman's best works that can be operationalized? If ARR is a progressive artist who doesn't stick to formulas, what exactly are his standards that people expect him to adhere to album after album? I think it's the same dilemma for all suuccessful artists. You take rock bands from the west, you hear so many comments about how their earlier works outshine later works. Oh, this group's music back in the 70s was so much better than their work now. Their own success haunts them down the road, if they let it. Let's take JA. If you want to compare elements of JA to his most highly rated soundtracks of the past, there is good melody, amazing musicianship, crystal clear sound, beautiful ornamentation and attention to musical detail, haunting chords ahd harmonies, catchy rhythms, and innovativeness. So, what's the problem? I get the feeling that no matter how objectively good an ARR soundtrack will be, there will ALWAYS be folks who say the phrase above. And I guarantee you that these same folks would say he is repetitive if Rahman were indeed to go back to the Dil Se or Taal mode or whatever mode they wish for.
Re: [arr] Re: Can someone define living up to ARR's own standards?
All these discussions are signs that ARR will go down in the history as a Legend.. We just need to look at history to realise that. . Good discussion..I am enjoying it a lot. On Jan 28, 2008 2:48 PM, jamshid TC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *Vande Mataram* was released in 1997 on India's 50th anniversary of independence . -Jamshid --- On *Sun, 1/27/08, shanavas.chemmamkuzhi [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: From: shanavas.chemmamkuzhi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [arr] Re: Can someone define living up to ARR's own standards? To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 27, 2008, 10:27 PM I disagree here.Time won't affect the quality of music.Rahman used the same tune in 1994 and 2000 ,and both songs were appreciated. Porale Ponnuthayi - Karuthamma (1994) Chanda Suraj Lakhon Tare - Vande Matharam (2000) -- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51734/*http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [arr] Re: Can someone define living up to ARR's own standards?
Hey Rano, i definitely do agree to the 'generation' gap herewhoa !! and to think the only generation gap was between elders who used to listen to MSV and others and us lot who rediscovered film music with A R R..a lot of people who have tuned in to A R R s music should go back and listen to ALL his stuff between 92 and 97 I tried hard to replay all the songs in my mind and came up with these 3 for now..PAROTA PAROTA from Vandi Cholai Chinrasu, YEDUKU PONDATI from Keezaku Cheemayile and KOKU SAIDE KOKU from Muthu.all 3 are very very situational but very very 'different'..there was a phase where moviemakers and lyricists tried to overdo the jeans pant baggy pant bit (started from gentleman and then hit the pits with the track onu rendu moona da...from pudhiya manargal...notice the 1st stanza where the words jeans and baggy are used and the tune seems so completely in contrast !) and also overdose of elderly voices (again started from roja and then the track in muthu which ive mentioned above). On a different note, i ve been literally humming IN LAMHON KE DAMAN..from jodhaa and accidentally slipped into the interlude of SITIRA NILAVU from Vandi Cholai..if someone could mix and match and cut and paste, id love to hear how it would sound...me thinks it would fit perfectly atleast before the stanza where Madhushree starts off -Vijay On Jan 27, 2008 11:12 AM, Ranojoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me try to explain. For the first 5 years, between 1992 and 1996, almost none of the people here or ANYWHERE will be able to find 5 A R songs that they didn't like. Out of 25-30 albums. That's a high standard. Every phrase, every intro, every verse is astounding from that period. In Guru, the first interlude from Barso Re is phenomenal and no other composer is capable of that kind of music, and many fans think that A R is capable of sustaining that sort of quality over the length of the entire album, which may or may not happen because the songs are extremely situational nowadays. It is RIDICULOUS for anyone here to say that one cannot criticize this aspect of Rahman's music or that, because there are many many fans who have been there since the first song of A R R ever aired and before, and have a right to express their feelings. I am curious to know how old some of you are, because there seems to be a generational gap developing in this group :) --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com arrahmanfans%40yahoogroups.com, Chord [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hear this phrase over and over and over in reviews. What does that mean exactly? Is it purely subjective or are there elements of Rahman's best works that can be operationalized? If ARR is a progressive artist who doesn't stick to formulas, what exactly are his standards that people expect him to adhere to album after album? I think it's the same dilemma for all suuccessful artists. You take rock bands from the west, you hear so many comments about how their earlier works outshine later works. Oh, this group's music back in the 70s was so much better than their work now. Their own success haunts them down the road, if they let it. Let's take JA. If you want to compare elements of JA to his most highly rated soundtracks of the past, there is good melody, amazing musicianship, crystal clear sound, beautiful ornamentation and attention to musical detail, haunting chords ahd harmonies, catchy rhythms, and innovativeness. So, what's the problem? I get the feeling that no matter how objectively good an ARR soundtrack will be, there will ALWAYS be folks who say the phrase above. And I guarantee you that these same folks would say he is repetitive if Rahman were indeed to go back to the Dil Se or Taal mode or whatever mode they wish for.
Re: [arr] Re: Can someone define living up to ARR's own standards?
Hi Vij and Rano... may this so called 'generation gap' is a mere 'generation continuum' and different members are at different parts/sections/length of this continuum Vijay Iyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Rano, i definitely do agree to the 'generation' gap herewhoa !! and to think the only generation gap was between elders who used to listen to MSV and others and us lot who rediscovered film music with A R R..a lot of people who have tuned in to A R R s music should go back and listen to ALL his stuff between 92 and 97 I tried hard to replay all the songs in my mind and came up with these 3 for now..PAROTA PAROTA from Vandi Cholai Chinrasu, YEDUKU PONDATI from Keezaku Cheemayile and KOKU SAIDE KOKU from Muthu.all 3 are very very situational but very very 'different'..there was a phase where moviemakers and lyricists tried to overdo the jeans pant baggy pant bit (started from gentleman and then hit the pits with the track onu rendu moona da...from pudhiya manargal...notice the 1st stanza where the words jeans and baggy are used and the tune seems so completely in contrast !) and also overdose of elderly voices (again started from roja and then the track in muthu which ive mentioned above). On a different note, i ve been literally humming IN LAMHON KE DAMAN..from jodhaa and accidentally slipped into the interlude of SITIRA NILAVU from Vandi Cholai..if someone could mix and match and cut and paste, id love to hear how it would sound...me thinks it would fit perfectly atleast before the stanza where Madhushree starts off -Vijay On Jan 27, 2008 11:12 AM, Ranojoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me try to explain. For the first 5 years, between 1992 and 1996, almost none of the people here or ANYWHERE will be able to find 5 A R songs that they didn't like. Out of 25-30 albums. That's a high standard. Every phrase, every intro, every verse is astounding from that period. In Guru, the first interlude from Barso Re is phenomenal and no other composer is capable of that kind of music, and many fans think that A R is capable of sustaining that sort of quality over the length of the entire album, which may or may not happen because the songs are extremely situational nowadays. It is RIDICULOUS for anyone here to say that one cannot criticize this aspect of Rahman's music or that, because there are many many fans who have been there since the first song of A R R ever aired and before, and have a right to express their feelings. I am curious to know how old some of you are, because there seems to be a generational gap developing in this group :) --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Chord [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hear this phrase over and over and over in reviews. What does that mean exactly? Is it purely subjective or are there elements of Rahman's best works that can be operationalized? If ARR is a progressive artist who doesn't stick to formulas, what exactly are his standards that people expect him to adhere to album after album? I think it's the same dilemma for all suuccessful artists. You take rock bands from the west, you hear so many comments about how their earlier works outshine later works. Oh, this group's music back in the 70s was so much better than their work now. Their own success haunts them down the road, if they let it. Let's take JA. If you want to compare elements of JA to his most highly rated soundtracks of the past, there is good melody, amazing musicianship, crystal clear sound, beautiful ornamentation and attention to musical detail, haunting chords ahd harmonies, catchy rhythms, and innovativeness. So, what's the problem? I get the feeling that no matter how objectively good an ARR soundtrack will be, there will ALWAYS be folks who say the phrase above. And I guarantee you that these same folks would say he is repetitive if Rahman were indeed to go back to the Dil Se or Taal mode or whatever mode they wish for. - Sent from Yahoo! #45; a smarter inbox.
Re: [arr] Re: Can someone define living up to ARR's own standards?
small correction in red ink... Hi Vij and Rano... may be this so called 'generation gap' is a mere 'generation continuum' and different members are at different parts/sections/ length of this continuum... . neena kochhar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Vij and Rano... may this so called 'generation gap' is a mere 'generation continuum' and different members are at different parts/sections/length of this continuum Vijay Iyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Rano, i definitely do agree to the 'generation' gap herewhoa !! and to think the only generation gap was between elders who used to listen to MSV and others and us lot who rediscovered film music with A R R..a lot of people who have tuned in to A R R s music should go back and listen to ALL his stuff between 92 and 97 I tried hard to replay all the songs in my mind and came up with these 3 for now..PAROTA PAROTA from Vandi Cholai Chinrasu, YEDUKU PONDATI from Keezaku Cheemayile and KOKU SAIDE KOKU from Muthu.all 3 are very very situational but very very 'different'..there was a phase where moviemakers and lyricists tried to overdo the jeans pant baggy pant bit (started from gentleman and then hit the pits with the track onu rendu moona da...from pudhiya manargal...notice the 1st stanza where the words jeans and baggy are used and the tune seems so completely in contrast !) and also overdose of elderly voices (again started from roja and then the track in muthu which ive mentioned above). On a different note, i ve been literally humming IN LAMHON KE DAMAN..from jodhaa and accidentally slipped into the interlude of SITIRA NILAVU from Vandi Cholai..if someone could mix and match and cut and paste, id love to hear how it would sound...me thinks it would fit perfectly atleast before the stanza where Madhushree starts off -Vijay On Jan 27, 2008 11:12 AM, Ranojoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me try to explain. For the first 5 years, between 1992 and 1996, almost none of the people here or ANYWHERE will be able to find 5 A R songs that they didn't like. Out of 25-30 albums. That's a high standard. Every phrase, every intro, every verse is astounding from that period. In Guru, the first interlude from Barso Re is phenomenal and no other composer is capable of that kind of music, and many fans think that A R is capable of sustaining that sort of quality over the length of the entire album, which may or may not happen because the songs are extremely situational nowadays. It is RIDICULOUS for anyone here to say that one cannot criticize this aspect of Rahman's music or that, because there are many many fans who have been there since the first song of A R R ever aired and before, and have a right to express their feelings. I am curious to know how old some of you are, because there seems to be a generational gap developing in this group :) --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Chord [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hear this phrase over and over and over in reviews. What does that mean exactly? Is it purely subjective or are there elements of Rahman's best works that can be operationalized? If ARR is a progressive artist who doesn't stick to formulas, what exactly are his standards that people expect him to adhere to album after album? I think it's the same dilemma for all suuccessful artists. You take rock bands from the west, you hear so many comments about how their earlier works outshine later works. Oh, this group's music back in the 70s was so much better than their work now. Their own success haunts them down the road, if they let it. Let's take JA. If you want to compare elements of JA to his most highly rated soundtracks of the past, there is good melody, amazing musicianship, crystal clear sound, beautiful ornamentation and attention to musical detail, haunting chords ahd harmonies, catchy rhythms, and innovativeness. So, what's the problem? I get the feeling that no matter how objectively good an ARR soundtrack will be, there will ALWAYS be folks who say the phrase above. And I guarantee you that these same folks would say he is repetitive if Rahman were indeed to go back to the Dil Se or Taal mode or whatever mode they wish for. - Sent from Yahoo! - a smarter inbox. - Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with Yahoo! for Good
RE: [arr] Re: Can someone define living up to ARR's own standards?
I agree with Rano that the first 5 years of ARR's entry into Movie Music brought about an astounding outpouring of quality music that early listeners like Rano and myself, among many, were so overwhelmed and mesmerized. I can still recall the goosebumps I felt all over me when I first heard those scintillating and crystal clear synth sounds of Pudu Vellai Mazhai in my living room; its glissandos inducing many cool thrills up my spine. This was before his minor-digression into Prabhudeva influenced rhythmic songs over the colorful melodies of those first years, which attracted the first wave of harsh criticisms of ARR's falling below his own standards; and in ARR's defence, let me say that he did admit to being somewhat guilty of diverting his attention to more commercial efforts during the 95-97 period. Coming back to the early years, true, we have not heard those same sounds from ARR in recent times, but that is certainly not to say that he has given up, or even consciously softened his emphasis over these standards, which, to me, are still a league above the prevailing norm. That is not to mention the now very widely accepted fact that the prevailing norm has largely been shaped by ARR's pioneering work of those early years! Before we delve into a serious discussion about comparing and criticizing standards of different eras, we have to ask what we mean by 'standards': Are we comparing originality, aesthetic judgment (or taste), use of technology, choice of movies and lyrics, choice of singers and instruments, etc? Most of these standards, ARR himself acknowledged early on in his career, were very close to his heart and the advancement of which were among his main reasons for entering the movie industry. So, while I’m sure he is open enough to allow criticisms of his works, he would love to know on what facts we base our judgments. Also, for the sake of balance, I will compare the works of the 5-year period from 1992-96 with the 5-year period from 2003-07. I am just trying to keep aflame, perhaps by lighting a side fire or two, what I feel is a very worthy topic for discussion. All my thoughts here will be open for debate for I too am still learning and would love to hear the thoughts from what, to us ‘old-timers’, has now become quite a massive group! So let us investigate ARR’s Standard Deviation over the 15 years of his reign! I will post my discussion in categorical parts so that I don’t estrange you with an unpleasantly long email! If you are interested in the discussion, look for the subject line 'ARR's Standard Deviation - Part X - SUBJECT' in your inboxes for there are 100s of emails now flowing per day and I understand that you may not have the time to go through each and every email. Best regards, Dasun To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:12:02 + Subject: [arr] Re: Can someone define living up to ARR's own standards? Let me try to explain. For the first 5 years, between 1992 and 1996, almost none of the people here or ANYWHERE will be able to find 5 A R songs that they didn't like. Out of 25-30 albums. That's a high standard. Every phrase, every intro, every verse is astounding from that period. In Guru, the first interlude from Barso Re is phenomenal and no other composer is capable of that kind of music, and many fans think that A R is capable of sustaining that sort of quality over the length of the entire album, which may or may not happen because the songs are extremely situational nowadays. It is RIDICULOUS for anyone here to say that one cannot criticize this aspect of Rahman's music or that, because there are many many fans who have been there since the first song of A R R ever aired and before, and have a right to express their feelings. I am curious to know how old some of you are, because there seems to be a generational gap developing in this group :) --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Chord [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hear this phrase over and over and over in reviews. What does that mean exactly? Is it purely subjective or are there elements of Rahman's best works that can be operationalized? If ARR is a progressive artist who doesn't stick to formulas, what exactly are his standards that people expect him to adhere to album after album? I think it's the same dilemma for all suuccessful artists. You take rock bands from the west, you hear so many comments about how their earlier works outshine later works. Oh, this group's music back in the 70s was so much better than their work now. Their own success haunts them down the road, if they let it. Let's take JA. If you want to compare elements of JA to his most highly rated soundtracks of the past, there is good melody, amazing musicianship, crystal clear sound, beautiful ornamentation and attention to musical detail, haunting
Re: [arr] Re: Can someone define living up to ARR's own standards?
Yes i totally agree with you that today all the other music directors are exactly a xerox of ARR (infact color xerox), so it is difficult to maintain the orginality. For that reason ARR has to do lot of hardwork, infact he is doing more than his 100%. I don't understand one thing, if he tries something new you people say ARR is lost his magic, and he doesn't do that you people say its resembles like his previous compositions bla bla... comon guys grow up... Regards S.Sunder - Original Message From: jamshid TC [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, 28 January, 2008 9:21:13 AM Subject: Re: [arr] Re: Can someone define living up to ARR's own standards? For that matter i cried once when i was listening to Lukka chuppi from rang de basanti and yeh jo des hei tear in some other occation One important thing what chord mentioned in his earlier mail. When rahman came he introduced a new type of music to the people in india.His style was totally diffrent from the contemporary music directors that time .So everything he delievred that time was something people got to experince diffrent from others. and then we know , he set that trend and somany people followed his school.That time people could listen to a song and tell that its that new guy's song . While today its gone.its tough to diffrentiate for a non-rahman fan :-). apart from this aspect as chord said , for me rahman's standard of music composition has improved a lot from those days.I feel rahman can easily deliver a raakkozhi randum muzhichirukku or pennalla pennalla even now but it won't stand apart . But rahman with what he was that time i don't expect a yeh jo des hei tera or khalbali from him. I would say ,that time he could just deliver the gifted talent he got and it got easily accepted and stood apart. where as today, he is putting immense hard work on top of his gifts to stand apart. -Jamshid --- On Sun, 1/27/08, shanavas.chemmamkuz hi shanavas.chemmamkuz [EMAIL PROTECTED] com wrote: From: shanavas.chemmamkuz hi shanavas.chemmamkuz [EMAIL PROTECTED] com Subject: [arr] Re: Can someone define living up to ARR's own standards? To: arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, January 27, 2008, 7:34 PM I used to cry when i listen to Porale ponnuthayi from Karithamma and Ye ajnabi from Dil se. Pure magic!! I want the same magic back in Rahman music.I dont care Subash k jha or Joginder tuteja or any other so called critics, but i want all of them criticize Rahman now. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM IN PUSHING AN ARTIST WHO IS CAPABLE TO DELIVER EXTRA-ORDINARY MUSIC. fyi : Criticism is not new to AR. One south indian magazine called him one film wonder in Genteman review..But AR prove them wrong. Regards Shanavas --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, Chord [EMAIL PROTECTED] . wrote: I think it's a matter of taste, nothing more. I'm all for specific constructive criticism within reason. To hear Rahman not living up to his own standards for every fricking release of his nowadays is not within reason for me. Ok, there are some fans not as happy with Rahman's music today compared to the past. Of course they have a right to express what they feel. I have to accept that as THEIR OPINION, not a fact. Disappointed with the music for such and such reason? Fine with me. Didn't like the song for such and such reason? Ok! Rahman's not as good as he used to be? That's not getting past me! You mentioned hardly any songs unliked in Rahman's earlier days. Be careful of confounding variables including novelty, change in sound, music scene, music taste. Judging Rahman's music certainly requires an examination of the predominant music scene and most certainly, Rahman's music STOOD OUT more in his early days than today. To me, that doesn't make his music from that time period superior or a fulcrum by which to judge subsequent soundtracks. IMO if you asked Rahman himself whether his music has worsened over time or if he's not living up to his own standards from the past, I think he would scoff and say, of course not.. He sets the standard for himself each time he releases an album for better or for worse. I''m sure he has his favorites, but I'm pretty sure he would be just as proud or critical of his music back then as today. Yes, I agree, his songs have become more situational, but films too have become more specific in theme in content with diverse storylines demanding different types of music from Rahman. Rahman is more selective today too. I'm in my 30s. I'm a relatively late oncomer to Rahman's music (mid 90s) but I enjoy all his music from day 1 to now. I view him as a progressive artist who is maturing at every step and willing to experiment, even if all his experiments are not appreciated by the masses or his fans. I am just as critical of his music from Roja to Jodha Akbar and not all his music
