Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA
Scott: I do see where the guy is coming from – he’s looking after his own interests, and I can understand his wanting to do that. I can even imagine a few experiences which may have prompted the writing of that particular NDA. I think the problem is, he’s so busy looking after his own interests that he doesn’t really think about how confining the arrangement being proposed is for the people he’s claiming to serve by hooking them up with prospective employers. I can’t imagine anyone except someone desperate agreeing to that. While it can be helpful to work with recruiters, that particular arrangement seems a bit too one-sided in his side’s favor to me. And if he’s pressuring you, on the one hand, I can appreciate that he’s out hustling to try and find people, but on the other, he really does need to leave things up to you. Letting people make their own decisions is basic respect, and if he has a valid position with competitive wages to offer, he shouldn’t need to pressure you – you’re either interested or you’re not. So either he’s a basically decent guy who is simply trying too hard or else he’s a not-so-decent sort with some other agenda motivating him. Personally, I’d probably steer clear. I see enough yellow flags here that working with “the Company” seems like a risk I’d prefer to avoid. Best of luck, Natalie Stroud SAIC @ Sandia National Laboratories ARS-ITSM Reporting Specialist Albuquerque, NM USA nkst...@sandia.govmailto:nkst...@sandia.gov ITSM 7.6.04 SP2 – Windows 2003 – SQL Server 2008 From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 1:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less, Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA
Ask him for a guaranteed signing bonus of say, oh I don't know, US Dollars Ten Thousand? - Original Message - From: Natalie K Stroud nkst...@sandia.gov To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 4:09:00 PM Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** Scott: I do see where the guy is coming from – he’s looking after his own interests, and I can understand his wanting to do that. I can even imagine a few experiences which may have prompted the writing of that particular NDA. I think the problem is, he’s so busy looking after his own interests that he doesn’t really think about how confining the arrangement being proposed is for the people he’s claiming to serve by hooking them up with prospective employers. I can’t imagine anyone except someone desperate agreeing to that. While it can be helpful to work with recruiters, that particular arrangement seems a bit too one-sided in his side’s favor to me. And if he’s pressuring you, on the one hand, I can appreciate that he’s out hustling to try and find people, but on the other, he really does need to leave things up to you. Letting people make their own decisions is basic respect, and if he has a valid position with competitive wages to offer, he shouldn’t need to pressure you – you’re either interested or you’re not. So either he’s a basically decent guy who is simply trying too hard or else he’s a not-so-decent sort with some other agenda motivating him. Personally, I’d probably steer clear. I see enough yellow flags here that working with “the Company” seems like a risk I’d prefer to avoid. Best of luck, Natalie Stroud SAIC @ Sandia National Laboratories ARS-ITSM Reporting Specialist Albuquerque, NM USA nkst...@sandia.gov ITSM 7.6.04 SP2 – Windows 2003 – SQL Server 2008 From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 1:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less , Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA
You can always counter the NDA and send back your own wording for them to agree to. I absolutely would not agree to pay the liquidation penalty (most likely the recruiter's fee which is normally based upon the negotiated salary) and then an addition 10k. All this recruiter would have to do is blast fax your resume out and then he/ she has introduced you to every company whether they are hiring or not. I agree though that if something makes you uncomfortable then don't do it. There are plenty of other agencies and opportunities out there. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of pritch Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 3:20 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA Ask him for a guaranteed signing bonus of say, oh I don't know, US Dollars Ten Thousand? - Original Message - From: Natalie K Stroud nkst...@sandia.gov To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 4:09:00 PM Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** Scott: I do see where the guy is coming from – he’s looking after his own interests, and I can understand his wanting to do that. I can even imagine a few experiences which may have prompted the writing of that particular NDA. I think the problem is, he’s so busy looking after his own interests that he doesn’t really think about how confining the arrangement being proposed is for the people he’s claiming to serve by hooking them up with prospective employers. I can’t imagine anyone except someone desperate agreeing to that. While it can be helpful to work with recruiters, that particular arrangement seems a bit too one-sided in his side’s favor to me. And if he’s pressuring you, on the one hand, I can appreciate that he’s out hustling to try and find people, but on the other, he really does need to leave things up to you. Letting people make their own decisions is basic respect, and if he has a valid position with competitive wages to offer, he shouldn’t need to pressure you – you’re either interested or you’re not. So either he’s a basically decent guy who is simply trying too hard or else he’s a not-so-decent sort with some other agenda motivating him. Personally, I’d probably steer clear. I see enough yellow flags here that working with “the Company” seems like a risk I’d prefer to avoid. Best of luck, Natalie Stroud SAIC @ Sandia National Laboratories ARS-ITSM Reporting Specialist Albuquerque, NM USA nkst...@sandia.gov ITSM 7.6.04 SP2 – Windows 2003 – SQL Server 2008 From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 1:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less , Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA
I agree with LJ. This is standard contracting language to prevent the client from poaching you from the contract agency. Poorly worded, but standard. I've been on both sides of it for lots of years. Rick On Aug 1, 2013 1:35 PM, Tommy Morris tommy.mor...@radioshack.com wrote: You can always counter the NDA and send back your own wording for them to agree to. I absolutely would not agree to pay the liquidation penalty (most likely the recruiter's fee which is normally based upon the negotiated salary) and then an addition 10k. All this recruiter would have to do is blast fax your resume out and then he/ she has introduced you to every company whether they are hiring or not. I agree though that if something makes you uncomfortable then don't do it. There are plenty of other agencies and opportunities out there. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of pritch Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 3:20 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA Ask him for a guaranteed signing bonus of say, oh I don't know, US Dollars Ten Thousand? - Original Message - From: Natalie K Stroud nkst...@sandia.gov To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 4:09:00 PM Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** Scott: I do see where the guy is coming from – he’s looking after his own interests, and I can understand his wanting to do that. I can even imagine a few experiences which may have prompted the writing of that particular NDA. I think the problem is, he’s so busy looking after his own interests that he doesn’t really think about how confining the arrangement being proposed is for the people he’s claiming to serve by hooking them up with prospective employers. I can’t imagine anyone except someone desperate agreeing to that. While it can be helpful to work with recruiters, that particular arrangement seems a bit too one-sided in his side’s favor to me. And if he’s pressuring you, on the one hand, I can appreciate that he’s out hustling to try and find people, but on the other, he really does need to leave things up to you. Letting people make their own decisions is basic respect, and if he has a valid position with competitive wages to offer, he shouldn’t need to pressure you – you’re either interested or you’re not. So either he’s a basically decent guy who is simply trying too hard or else he’s a not-so-decent sort with some other agenda motivating him. Personally, I’d probably steer clear. I see enough yellow flags here that working with “the Company” seems like a risk I’d prefer to avoid. Best of luck, Natalie Stroud SAIC @ Sandia National Laboratories ARS-ITSM Reporting Specialist Albuquerque, NM USA nkst...@sandia.gov ITSM 7.6.04 SP2 – Windows 2003 – SQL Server 2008 From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 1:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less , Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers
Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA
Personally, I would responds with my own contractual clause, such as... 1) During the period for which the Company markets ENTERNAMEHERE's (My, Myself, Me) skills, the Company shall perform no action that, in My opinion, reflects poorly upon My character or professionalism. Furthermore, the Company shall not market My skills nor introduce Me to a Customer without written approval from Myself. 2) The Company shall not provide any written documentation to any Customer concerning Myself that contains spelling, grammar, or mathematical errors. 3) The Company agrees to pay Me an hourly stipend (Stipend) of $125 for each Evaluatory interview. The Stipend begins when I leave My home and ends upon My return to said home. The Stipend shall be remitted to Me within 14 days of said Evaluatory interview. The Company agrees to reimburse within 60 days any Evalutory interview related travel expenses. 4) In the event the Company breaches the provisions of this Agreement, the Company agrees to pay Me, as liquidated damages and not as a penalty, a further sum of US Dollars One Hundred Thousand. The Company acknowledges that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by Me. Just my 3 cents - I have to operate at 150% to keep up :D Jim -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Stroud, Natalie K Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 4:09 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** Scott: I do see where the guy is coming from – he’s looking after his own interests, and I can understand his wanting to do that. I can even imagine a few experiences which may have prompted the writing of that particular NDA. I think the problem is, he’s so busy looking after his own interests that he doesn’t really think about how confining the arrangement being proposed is for the people he’s claiming to serve by hooking them up with prospective employers. I can’t imagine anyone except someone desperate agreeing to that. While it can be helpful to work with recruiters, that particular arrangement seems a bit too one-sided in his side’s favor to me. And if he’s pressuring you, on the one hand, I can appreciate that he’s out hustling to try and find people, but on the other, he really does need to leave things up to you. Letting people make their own decisions is basic respect, and if he has a valid position with competitive wages to offer, he shouldn’t need to pressure you – you’re either interested or you’re not. So either he’s a basically decent guy who is simply trying too hard or else he’s a not-so-decent sort with some other agenda motivating him. Personally, I’d probably steer clear. I see enough yellow flags here that working with “the Company” seems like a risk I’d prefer to avoid. Best of luck, Natalie Stroud SAIC @ Sandia National Laboratories ARS-ITSM Reporting Specialist Albuquerque, NM USA nkst...@sandia.gov ITSM 7.6.04 SP2 – Windows 2003 – SQL Server 2008 From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 1:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less, Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers
