[Assam] Re: Floods and Droughts
Title: Re: Floods and Droughts Most people in the nation feel that Bihar is Water Surplus state, thanks to official propaganda but can we do something to bring Gujarat or Maharashtra water to Bihar in case of such emergency and such availability. A similar situation had occurred, in 1987, when almost entire country was reeling under an unprecedented drought, and Bihar was facing the worst ever flood of the 20th century. Gujarat is slowly becoming a state to face floods on a regular basis. When it comes to linking Bihar rivers to the Sabarmati, in Gujarat, to combat the shortages there, it should also be possible to bring water from Gujarat to Bihar. All that we may have to do is to have canals with adjustable and / or reversible bed slopes and this should be possible with the excellent technical expertise available in our country that can turn improbability into reality. Else, we can have parallel sets of canals flowing in opposite directions in our interlinking scheme and, thus, let it work both ways. That will take care of all conceivable problems regarding irrigational water and floods within the country, I presume. Great observations Dinesh. The only fair thing to do. No doubt our engineers are more than up to the task. Best, Chandan At 10:05 AM + 8/4/05, Dinesh Kumar Mishra wrote: We feel sorry for the people of Mumbai and most part of Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh and now Karnataka, who have suffered the onslaughts of floods and drainage congestion recently. Who else would understand the plight of the Mumbaikars and Mahrashtrians and those from Karnataka and Madhya Pradesh better than us, the people of North Bihar, who so very well understand what flooding or drainage congestion means. What happened in Mumbai and other parts of Maharashtra this year, happens every year in our part of the country. Mumbai is a narrow strip of land protruding into the ocean implying it has drainage outlets all along its coast into the Arabian Sea and there is no reason why the rainwater should not reach the sea, without causing any havoc, unless it is physically prevented from doing so. A rough sea, however, would retard the process of drainage but will not prevent it altogether. This seems to have happened. Clogged drains, undersized drains, no drains, encroachments, official apathy etc may be some of the reasons for the catastrophe. It is about the time that the people force the authorities to ensure that such incidents are never repeated in future keeping in mind that nature keeps on improving its records of flooding, rainfall and droughts. We, in Bihar, are particularly concerned by the collapse of official machinery in dealing with floods and drainage congestion in Mumbai because this single 100 years occurring will give a tool in the hands of officials and politicians to defend themselves and they would cite the Mumbai example for a long time to come. When such things can happen in one of the best governed states and financial capital of the country, why blame Bihar? A word about situation in Bihar would be relevant here. The state is reeling under a spell of drought this year. There was some flooding in the Bagmati and the Mahananda basin in early July and then on there are only clouds and little rains. Newspaper reports suggest that only 36 per cent of transplantation of paddy has taken place till 3rd August whereas it should have been 100 per cent by now. I had traveled recently to chronically flooded districts of north Bihar like Muzaffarpur, Saran, Vaishali, Saharsa, Supaul, Khagaria and Begusarai on the dusty roads in the last week of July. Jute crop is still standing in the fields and unless the ponds or depressions are filled with water, it will not be possible for the farmers to harvest Paat (Jute) and put it in ponds for retting. And unless the fields are cleared of Paat , paddy transplantation cannot be done. Those farmers who own or can afford Diesel Pumps (@ Rs 75 per hour ) are transplanting paddy and those who cannot, are still looking towards the sky. This despite the Gandak and the Kosi canals and various State Tube-Wells and other minor irrigation works. Most people in the nation feel that Bihar is Water Surplus state, thanks to official propaganda but can we do something to bring Gujarat or Maharashtra water to Bihar in case of such emergency and such availability. A similar situation had occurred, in 1987, when almost entire country was reeling under an unprecedented drought, and Bihar was facing the worst ever flood of the 20th century. Gujarat is slowly becoming a state to face floods on a regular basis. When it comes to linking Bihar rivers to the Sabarmati, in Gujarat, to combat the shortages there, it should also be possible to bring water from Gujarat to Bihar. All that we may have to do is to have canals with adjustable and / or reversible bed slopes and this should be possible with the excellent technical expertise available in our country that can turn
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
I certainly don't. I just claim to represent my own opinion and that too with great difficulty : Your opinion, whatever it may be, may be in the majority. You can safely claim that, even if you areWRONGbecause Chandan has given you the license: you may be either RIGHT or WRONG. Similarly,RIGHTLY or WRONGLY,I donot support Independence and claim that I represent the majority people in Assam. That is the point I was trying to make that his sentence does have any meaning when one use the phrase RIGHTLY or WRONGLY. RB - Original Message - From: Roy, Santanu To: Rajen Barua ; Chan Mahanta Cc: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: RE: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA I am almost scared to interject here - but I think I should say that the claim that "We all, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the popular opinion of the Assam." isnot correct. I certainly don't. I just claim to represent my own opinion and that too with great difficulty :-). Therefore, I am not like the ULFA. Actually,it would be interesting to know how many of the netters (other than RB) claim to represent the popular opinion of Assam? Santanu. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Rajen BaruaSent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 3:22 PMTo: Chan MahantaCc: assam@pikespeak.uccs.eduSubject: Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA *** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. The above sentence is grammatically and logically incorrect, and does not mean anything if you analyze. We all, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the popular opinion of the Assam. So the word unlike does not go there. And when you remove the word unlike, ULFA becomes like anybody else, me or you, us. Rajen *** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. Their constituency, their supporters, also believe that Indian political machinations have hurt Assam's interests. You may not accept that. But that is different.Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't invite from Delhi?Same explanation here.Why do you assume that just because some minister comes down from Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam.Come on Ram, you keep missing the obvious: ULFA does not recognize Indian controls over Assam. That is why they are telling Indians to keep out. It is not about whether it might be good or bad for Assam. But let me ask you this: Is it good for Assam, for its elections to be INFLUENCED by remote interests from elsewhere in India?Assuming ONLY regional parties participate in the elections, how will that benefit ULFA?I cannot speak for ULFA. But I am of the belief that Assam's interests are best served by political parties who are rooted in Assam, and whose elections are not interfered with by outside interests. That is what local self-government is all about. All of this just pure humbug. What the ULFA is probably trying to do is to draw some attention to themselves. They have been left out to dry for a while, so passing a Dikat here and a Dikat there might actually bring the spotlight on them.You may be right, or you may be wrong. Neither has anything to do with the premise of the original argument and conclusions, that started this debate.As for polarization problems, sitting cozily in Bangladesh, passing dikats, and encouraging illegal immigration does more to polarize than anything else. You can spin it anyway you wish. But can you show how ULFA is either encouraging illegal migration, or causing polarizations in Assam? At 11:03 AM -0500 8/3/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da If you were to be an independent observer and well-wisher of Assam, would that seem unreasonable or bad for Assam ? Of course, we are all well-wishers of Assam. But what has that go to do with ULFA's 'interest' in an election conducted by Indian authorities. They are the ones passing out dikats left and right, and basically infringing upon the free will of the Assamese people (not you and I). Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't invite from Delhi? Don't the Assamese in Assam know what is or what is not polarizing, instead of having the ULFA intelligensia forcing them to think otherwise and dictating behavior? Why do you assume that just because some
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
well said santanoo - Original Message - From: Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: J. Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 4:43 AM Subject: Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA Jugal, But you seem to be missing one important ingredient. All the people you listed below had mass followings and more importantly they did not have large sections of the people they wanted to 'liberate' NOT wanting them to do so on their behalf. Does ULFA have those qualities, ie. a large section of the Assamese population following their core ideals? Gandhi, Bose, Mandela were not elected memebrs, but they did command huge followings. Perhaps even Jinnah. And so did Mao and Hitler. Sometimes they were wrong (like Hitler) while at other times it paid off, like Mandela. Another important point is a 'populist leader or group' can get public support in two ways: By making people want such freedoms from their hearts. Or By using guns, threats, kidnappings, and 'or else' methods to 'win' people's hearts. IHMO, the former option is what the world looks up to and would at least give tacit support. What do you think the Assamese people will be more comfortable with? --Ram da On 8/3/05, J. Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the same logic, how did Mohandas Gandhi or Subhash Bose or Jinnah in pre-1947 British India represent the people of India? Was Mohandas Gandhi elected to be President/Prime Minister/king/emperor or whatever of pre-1947 India? Was he a demagogue? Did Nelson Mandela represent the people of South Africa when he was languishing in jail? Was he elected to represent the people of South Africa? Was Simon Bolivar elected by the countries of South America before he led the war for independence from Spain? Were the framers of the US constitution in Philadelphia elected by the people of America? Jugal Kalita Of course, we are all well-wishers of Assam. But what has that go to do with ULFA's 'interest' in an election conducted by Indian authorities. *** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. Their constituency, their supporters, also believe that Indian political machinations have hurt Assam's interests. You may not accept that. But that is different. Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't invite from Delhi? Same explanation here. Why do you assume that just because some minister comes down from Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam. Come on Ram, you keep missing the obvious: ULFA does not recognize Indian controls over Assam. That is why they are telling Indians to keep out. It is not about whether it might be good or bad for Assam. But let me ask you this: Is it good for Assam, for its elections to be INFLUENCED by remote interests from elsewhere in India? Assuming ONLY regional parties participate in the elections, how will that benefit ULFA? I cannot speak for ULFA. But I am of the belief that Assam's interests are best served by political parties who are rooted in Assam, and whose elections are not interfered with by outside interests. That is what local self-government is all about. All of this just pure humbug. What the ULFA is probably trying to do is to draw some attention to themselves. They have been left out to dry for a while, so passing a Dikat here and a Dikat there might actually bring the spotlight on them. You may be right, or you may be wrong. Neither has anything to do with the premise of the original argument and conclusions, that started this debate. As for polarization problems, sitting cozily in Bangladesh, passing dikats, and encouraging illegal immigration does more to polarize than anything else. You can spin it anyway you wish. But can you show how ULFA is either encouraging illegal migration, or causing polarizations in Assam? At 11:03 AM -0500 8/3/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da If you were to be an independent observer and well-wisher of Assam, would that seem unreasonable or bad for Assam ? Of course, we are all well-wishers of Assam. But what has that go to do with ULFA's 'interest' in an election conducted by Indian authorities. They are the ones passing out dikats left and right, and basically infringing upon the free will of the Assamese people (not you and I). Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't invite from Delhi? Don't the Assamese in Assam know what is or what is not polarizing, instead of having the ULFA intelligensia forcing them to think otherwise and dictating behavior? Why do you assume that just because some minister comes down from Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam. When Assam had no regional parties, was Assam more (or less) polarized than it is now? Assuming ONLY regional parties participate in the elections, how will that benefit
[Assam] NYTimes.com: Cultural Differences Complicate a Georgia Drug Sting Operation
Title: E-Mail This This page was sent to you by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message from sender: What is/are the truth/s? cm NATIONAL | August 4, 2005 Cultural Differences Complicate a Georgia Drug Sting Operation By KATE ZERNIKE Forty-four Indian immigrants who work as convenience store clerks and owners in Georgia were charged with selling materials used to make methamphetamine. 1. Op-Ed Columnist: Calling All Luddites 2. Basics: Just the Right Digital Camera for You 3. You Think Youve Got Tomatoes 4. Not Far From Napa, and Closing In 5. David Pogue: 1 Landline + 1 Cellphone = 1 Handset Go to Complete List Do you love NY? Get the insiders guide to where to stay, what to do and where to eat. Go to www.nytimes.com/travel for your NYC Guide now. Click here. Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company | Privacy Policy ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] NYTimes.com: Cultural Differences Complicate a Georgia Drug Sting Operation
That was a good write-up. I would have never guessed that 'cook' meant something else. BTW: I am hoping you and RB will set the tone right for netters on language skills:). Its become all the more important now that we see that lack of these skills could get us into heaps of trouble.:) On 8/4/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This page was sent to you by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message from sender: What is/are the truth/s? cm NATIONAL | August 4, 2005 Cultural Differences Complicate a Georgia Drug Sting Operation By KATE ZERNIKE Forty-four Indian immigrants who work as convenience store clerks and owners in Georgia were charged with selling materials used to make methamphetamine. 1. Op-Ed Columnist: Calling All Luddites 2. Basics: Just the Right Digital Camera for You 3. You Think You've Got Tomatoes 4. Not Far From Napa, and Closing In 5. David Pogue: 1 Landline + 1 Cellphone = 1 Handset » Go to Complete List Do you love NY? Get the insider's guide to where to stay, what to do and where to eat. Go to www.nytimes.com/travel for your NYC Guide now. Click here. Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company | Privacy Policy ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
[Assam] NYTimes.com: Cultural Differences Complicate a Georgia Drug Sting Operation
Title: E-Mail This This page was sent to you by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message from sender: a good reason why Gujratis esp. must learn good English and ethical business practices before leaving India for the West. NATIONAL | August 4, 2005 Cultural Differences Complicate a Georgia Drug Sting Operation By KATE ZERNIKE Forty-four Indian immigrants who work as convenience store clerks and owners in Georgia were charged with selling materials used to make methamphetamine. 1. Basics: Just the Right Digital Camera for You 2. Op-Ed Columnist: Calling All Luddites 3. David Pogue: 1 Landline + 1 Cellphone = 1 Handset 4. You Think Youve Got Tomatoes 5. Not Far From Napa, and Closing In Go to Complete List Do you love NY? Get the insiders guide to where to stay, what to do and where to eat. Go to www.nytimes.com/travel for your NYC Guide now. Click here. Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company | Privacy Policy ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
I have taken that into consideration, Ram da. During the British rule, it was possible, within the political system to talk about liberation or freedom. However, it's impossible to do so in a legal manner in current India under its constituion in a peaceful manner. It is not possible under current India's constitution to organize a party or movement that seeks independence in a legal manner. If someone tries to do so, they will be banned or even worse killed by the India government that exists today. Jugal Jugal, But you seem to be missing one important ingredient. All the people you listed below had mass followings and more importantly they did not have large sections of the people they wanted to 'liberate' NOT wanting them to do so on their behalf. Does ULFA have those qualities, ie. a large section of the Assamese population following their core ideals? Gandhi, Bose, Mandela were not elected memebrs, but they did command huge followings. Perhaps even Jinnah. And so did Mao and Hitler. Sometimes they were wrong (like Hitler) while at other times it paid off, like Mandela. Another important point is a 'populist leader or group' can get public support in two ways: By making people want such freedoms from their hearts. Or By using guns, threats, kidnappings, and 'or else' methods to 'win' people's hearts. IHMO, the former option is what the world looks up to and would at least give tacit support. What do you think the Assamese people will be more comfortable with? --Ram da On 8/3/05, J. Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the same logic, how did Mohandas Gandhi or Subhash Bose or Jinnah in pre-1947 British India represent the people of India? Was Mohandas Gandhi elected to be President/Prime Minister/king/emperor or whatever of pre-1947 India? Was he a demagogue? Did Nelson Mandela represent the people of South Africa when he was languishing in jail? Was he elected to represent the people of South Africa? Was Simon Bolivar elected by the countries of South America before he led the war for independence from Spain? Were the framers of the US constitution in Philadelphia elected by the people of America? Jugal Kalita Of course, we are all well-wishers of Assam. But what has that go to do with ULFA's 'interest' in an election conducted by Indian authorities. *** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. Their constituency, their supporters, also believe that Indian political machinations have hurt Assam's interests. You may not accept that. But that is different. Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't invite from Delhi? Same explanation here. Why do you assume that just because some minister comes down from Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam. Come on Ram, you keep missing the obvious: ULFA does not recognize Indian controls over Assam. That is why they are telling Indians to keep out. It is not about whether it might be good or bad for Assam. But let me ask you this: Is it good for Assam, for its elections to be INFLUENCED by remote interests from elsewhere in India? Assuming ONLY regional parties participate in the elections, how will that benefit ULFA? I cannot speak for ULFA. But I am of the belief that Assam's interests are best served by political parties who are rooted in Assam, and whose elections are not interfered with by outside interests. That is what local self-government is all about. All of this just pure humbug. What the ULFA is probably trying to do is to draw some attention to themselves. They have been left out to dry for a while, so passing a Dikat here and a Dikat there might actually bring the spotlight on them. You may be right, or you may be wrong. Neither has anything to do with the premise of the original argument and conclusions, that started this debate. As for polarization problems, sitting cozily in Bangladesh, passing dikats, and encouraging illegal immigration does more to polarize than anything else. You can spin it anyway you wish. But can you show how ULFA is either encouraging illegal migration, or causing polarizations in Assam? At 11:03 AM -0500 8/3/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da If you were to be an independent observer and well-wisher of Assam, would that seem unreasonable or bad for Assam ? Of course, we are all well-wishers of Assam. But what has that go to do with ULFA's 'interest' in an election conducted by Indian authorities. They are the ones passing out dikats left and right, and basically infringing upon the free will of the Assamese people (not you and I). Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't invite from Delhi? Don't the Assamese in Assam know what is or what is not polarizing, instead of
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
I don't think you are like the ULFA or anyone seeking independence,
autonomy or whatever in Assam. You are ensconced in the prosperity and
security of America. The only thing you do is write, mostly in an
ambiguous and scrutable and sometimes unscrutable manner. The others are
in the field sacrificing their careers and lives for something they
believe in, even though you and we are free to disagree with them. This is
the fundamental difference between wordsmiths like you and me, and the
likes of the ULFA and other liberation-seekers.
Jugal
*** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or
wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam.
The above sentence is grammatically and logically incorrect, and does not
mean anything if you analyze.
We all, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the popular opinion of the
Assam. So the word unlike does not go there. And when you remove the word
unlike, ULFA becomes like anybody else, me or you, us.
Rajen
*** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or
wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. Their
constituency, their supporters, also believe that Indian political
machinations have hurt Assam's interests.
You may not accept that. But that is different.
Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't
invite from Delhi?
Same explanation here.
Why do you assume that just because some minister comes down from
Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam.
Come on Ram, you keep missing the obvious: ULFA does not recognize
Indian controls over Assam. That is why they are telling Indians to
keep out. It is not about whether it might be good or bad for Assam.
But let me ask you this: Is it good for Assam, for its elections to
be INFLUENCED by remote interests from elsewhere in India?
Assuming ONLY regional parties participate in the elections, how
will
that benefit ULFA?
I cannot speak for ULFA. But I am of the belief that Assam's
interests are best served by political parties who are rooted in
Assam, and whose elections are not interfered with by outside
interests. That is what local self-government is all about.
All of this just pure humbug. What the ULFA is probably trying to
do
is to draw some attention to themselves. They have been left out to
dry for a while, so passing a Dikat here and a Dikat there might
actually bring the spotlight on them.
You may be right, or you may be wrong. Neither has anything to do
with the premise of the original argument and conclusions, that
started this debate.
As for polarization problems, sitting cozily in Bangladesh, passing
dikats, and encouraging illegal immigration does more to polarize than
anything else.
You can spin it anyway you wish. But can you show how ULFA is either
encouraging illegal migration, or causing polarizations in Assam?
At 11:03 AM -0500 8/3/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
C'da
If you were to be an independent
observer and well-wisher of Assam, would that seem unreasonable or
bad for Assam ?
Of course, we are all well-wishers of Assam. But what has that go to
do with ULFA's 'interest' in an election conducted by Indian
authorities. They are the ones passing out dikats left and right, and
basically infringing upon the free will of the Assamese people (not
you and I).
Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't
invite from Delhi? Don't the Assamese in Assam know what is or what is
not polarizing, instead of having the ULFA intelligensia forcing them
to think otherwise and dictating behavior?
Why do you assume that just because some minister comes down from
Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam. When
Assam had no regional parties, was Assam more (or less) polarized than
it is now?
Assuming ONLY regional parties participate in the elections, how will
that benefit ULFA?
All of this just pure humbug. What the ULFA is probably trying to do
is to draw some attention to themselves. They have been left out to
dry for a while, so passing a Dikat here and a Dikat there might
actually bring the spotlight on them.
As for polarization problems, sitting cozily in Bangladesh, passing
dikats, and encouraging illegal immigration does more to polarize than
anything else.
--Ram
On 8/3/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Huh! So, it now seems that inspite of ULFA NOT recognizing
Indian
rule, they are still interested in an election conducted and
participated by the Indians.
I can't answer that. I was merely examining the logic of the
original post, and the conclusions drawn.
But one thing can be surmised: That the ULFA is attempting to
prevent
interference of Indian political parties and injection of
regressive
Indian attitudes and polarizing
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
Wasn't Bose a terrorist by your definition? Why does he occupy a place of esteem and almost-deification in the pantheon of India's freedom-seekers? Did George Washington not organize an illegal army or militia against the rulers of America at his time, although he shared blood and family line with the ones who he was trying to overthrow? George Washington is celebrated now, deified now, talked about reverentially now, not because he used violence to overthrow the British, but because he won. If he had lost, he would not be talked about as a liberator, he would be talked about as a terrorist who was killed or destroyed by the British. I agree Mohandas sought independence in a non-violent manner and ULFA and the likes seek so violently. However, their main objective is the same: freedom and autonomy for their peoples. If Mohandas hadn't succeeded, he would be nobody. The main thing is he won and hence he is now esteemed and revered. And, if you examine the history of the world, mostly freedom-seekers have been violent. It's not violence or non-violence that differentiates founders of nations and countries. It is whether they win or not! If they win, they become great founding fathers of nations and kingdoms and empires, if they lose, they become just like anyone else, insurgents or non-celebrated ones consigned to footnotes of history. Jugal htmldiv style='background-color:'PBRBR/P Pgt;In the same logic, how did Mohandas Gandhi or Subhash Bose or Jinnah inBRgt;pre-1947 British India represent the people of India? Was Mohandas Gandhi/P DIVDon't know about Jinnah or Bose, but Gandhi and ULFA?nbsp;/DIV DIVWasn'tnbsp;Gandhi all about non-violence? Didn't he sacrifice and live on bare necessities? /DIV DIVnbsp;/DIV DIVgt;Spain? Were the framers of the US constitution in Philadelphia elected byBRgt;the people of America?BR/DIV DIVNo, but it wasnbsp;'framed' by the founding fathers and outstanding leaders of which many were members of the continental congress. They did not terrorize their own peoplenbsp;just because they wanted to get back to the colonists, or built their own empire with the extorted moneynbsp;they got fromnbsp;the people. They had the general public (who had totalnbsp;faith on them) to support them all they way. /DIV DIVnbsp;/DIV DIVWhat is the Assamese word/phrase for 'absurd comparison'?/DIV DIVBRBRgt;From: J. Kalita lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;BRgt;To: Chan Mahanta lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;BRgt;CC: Ram Sarangapani lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;, assam@pikespeak.uccs.eduBRgt;Subject: Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFABRgt;Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 13:59:31 -0600 (MDT)BRgt;BRgt;In the same logic, how did Mohandas Gandhi or Subhash Bose or Jinnah inBRgt;pre-1947 British India represent the people of India? Was Mohandas GandhiBRgt;elected to be President/Prime Minister/king/emperor or whatever ofBRgt;pre-1947 India? Was he a demagogue? Did Nelson Mandela represent theBRgt;people of South Africa when he was languishing in jail? Was he elected toBRgt;represent the people of South Africa? Was Simon Bolivar elected by theBRgt;countries of South America before he led the war for independence fromBRgt;Spain? Were the framers of the US constitution in Philadelphia elected byBRgt;the people of America?BRgt;BRgt;Jugal KalitaBRgt;BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt;gt; gt;Of course, we are all well-wishers of Assam. But what has that go toBRgt; gt;gt;do with ULFA's 'interest' in an election conducted by IndianBRgt; gt;gt;authorities.BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt; *** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly orBRgt; gt; wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. TheirBRgt; gt; constituency, their supporters, also believe that Indian politicalBRgt; gt; machinations have hurt Assam's interests.BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt; You may not accept that. But that is different.BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt;gt; gt;Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn'tBRgt; gt;gt;invite from Delhi?BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt; Same explanation here.BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt;gt; gt;Why do you assume that just because some minister comes down fromBRgt; gt;gt;Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam.BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt; Come on Ram, you keep missing the obvious: ULFA does not recognizeBRgt; gt; Indian controls over Assam. That is why they are telling Indians toBRgt; gt; keep out. It is not about whether it might be good or bad for Assam.BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt; But let me ask you this: Is it good for Assam, for its elections toBRgt; gt; be INFLUENCED by remote interests from elsewhere in India?BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt;gt; gt;Assuming ONLY regional parties participate in the elections, how willBRgt; gt;gt;that benefit ULFA?BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt;BRgt; gt; I cannot speak for ULFA. But I am of the belief that Assam'sBRgt; gt; interests are best served by political parties who are rooted inBRgt; gt; Assam, and whose elections
RE: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
You are not in Assam. I am not in Assam. The Sarangapanis are not in Assam. Chandan Mahanta is not in Assam. I am almost scared to interject here - but I think I should say that the claim that We all, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the popular opinion of the Assam. is not correct. I certainly don't. I just claim to represent my own opinion and that too with great difficulty :-). Therefore, I am not like the ULFA. Actually, it would be interesting to know how many of the netters (other than RB) claim to represent the popular opinion of Assam? Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rajen Barua Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 3:22 PM To: Chan Mahanta Cc: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Subject: Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA *** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. The above sentence is grammatically and logically incorrect, and does not mean anything if you analyze. We all, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the popular opinion of the Assam. So the word unlike does not go there. And when you remove the word unlike, ULFA becomes like anybody else, me or you, us. Rajen *** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. Their constituency, their supporters, also believe that Indian political machinations have hurt Assam's interests. You may not accept that. But that is different. Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't invite from Delhi? Same explanation here. Why do you assume that just because some minister comes down from Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam. Come on Ram, you keep missing the obvious: ULFA does not recognize Indian controls over Assam. That is why they are telling Indians to keep out. It is not about whether it might be good or bad for Assam. But let me ask you this: Is it good for Assam, for its elections to be INFLUENCED by remote interests from elsewhere in India? Assuming ONLY regional parties participate in the elections, how will that benefit ULFA? I cannot speak for ULFA. But I am of the belief that Assam's interests are best served by political parties who are rooted in Assam, and whose elections are not interfered with by outside interests. That is what local self-government is all about. All of this just pure humbug. What the ULFA is probably trying to do is to draw some attention to themselves. They have been left out to dry for a while, so passing a Dikat here and a Dikat there might actually bring the spotlight on them. You may be right, or you may be wrong. Neither has anything to do with the premise of the original argument and conclusions, that started this debate. As for polarization problems, sitting cozily in Bangladesh, passing dikats, and encouraging illegal immigration does more to polarize than anything else. You can spin it anyway you wish. But can you show how ULFA is either encouraging illegal migration, or causing polarizations in Assam? At 11:03 AM -0500 8/3/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da If you were to be an independent observer and well-wisher of Assam, would that seem unreasonable or bad for Assam ? Of course, we are all well-wishers of Assam. But what has that go to do with ULFA's 'interest' in an election conducted by Indian authorities. They are the ones passing out dikats left and right, and basically infringing upon the free will of the Assamese people (not you and I). Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't invite from Delhi? Don't the Assamese in Assam know what is or what is not polarizing, instead of having the ULFA intelligensia forcing them to think otherwise and dictating behavior? Why do you assume that just because some minister comes down from Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam. When Assam had no regional parties, was Assam more (or less) polarized than it is now? Assuming ONLY regional parties participate in the elections, how will that benefit ULFA? All of this just pure humbug. What the ULFA is probably trying to do is to draw some attention to themselves. They have been left out to dry for a while, so passing a Dikat here and a Dikat there might actually bring the spotlight on them. As for polarization problems, sitting cozily in Bangladesh, passing dikats, and encouraging illegal immigration does more to polarize than anything else. --Ram On 8/3/05, Chan Mahanta mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh! So, it now seems that inspite of ULFA NOT recognizing Indian rule, they are still interested in an election conducted and participated by the Indians.
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
And ULFA is not in Assam. So what is the difference? Rajen Barua - Original Message - From: J. Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Rajen Barua [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]; assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:23 PM Subject: RE: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA You are not in Assam. I am not in Assam. The Sarangapanis are not in Assam. Chandan Mahanta is not in Assam. I am almost scared to interject here - but I think I should say that the claim that We all, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the popular opinion of the Assam. is not correct. I certainly don't. I just claim to represent my own opinion and that too with great difficulty :-). Therefore, I am not like the ULFA. Actually, it would be interesting to know how many of the netters (other than RB) claim to represent the popular opinion of Assam? Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rajen Barua Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 3:22 PM To: Chan Mahanta Cc: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Subject: Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA *** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. The above sentence is grammatically and logically incorrect, and does not mean anything if you analyze. We all, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the popular opinion of the Assam. So the word unlike does not go there. And when you remove the word unlike, ULFA becomes like anybody else, me or you, us. Rajen *** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. Their constituency, their supporters, also believe that Indian political machinations have hurt Assam's interests. You may not accept that. But that is different. Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't invite from Delhi? Same explanation here. Why do you assume that just because some minister comes down from Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam. Come on Ram, you keep missing the obvious: ULFA does not recognize Indian controls over Assam. That is why they are telling Indians to keep out. It is not about whether it might be good or bad for Assam. But let me ask you this: Is it good for Assam, for its elections to be INFLUENCED by remote interests from elsewhere in India? Assuming ONLY regional parties participate in the elections, how will that benefit ULFA? I cannot speak for ULFA. But I am of the belief that Assam's interests are best served by political parties who are rooted in Assam, and whose elections are not interfered with by outside interests. That is what local self-government is all about. All of this just pure humbug. What the ULFA is probably trying to do is to draw some attention to themselves. They have been left out to dry for a while, so passing a Dikat here and a Dikat there might actually bring the spotlight on them. You may be right, or you may be wrong. Neither has anything to do with the premise of the original argument and conclusions, that started this debate. As for polarization problems, sitting cozily in Bangladesh, passing dikats, and encouraging illegal immigration does more to polarize than anything else. You can spin it anyway you wish. But can you show how ULFA is either encouraging illegal migration, or causing polarizations in Assam? At 11:03 AM -0500 8/3/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da If you were to be an independent observer and well-wisher of Assam, would that seem unreasonable or bad for Assam ? Of course, we are all well-wishers of Assam. But what has that go to do with ULFA's 'interest' in an election conducted by Indian authorities. They are the ones passing out dikats left and right, and basically infringing upon the free will of the Assamese people (not you and I). Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't invite from Delhi? Don't the Assamese in Assam know what is or what is not polarizing, instead of having the ULFA intelligensia forcing them to think otherwise and dictating behavior? Why do you assume that just because some minister comes down from Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam. When Assam had no regional parties, was Assam more (or less) polarized than it is now? Assuming ONLY regional parties participate in the elections, how will that benefit ULFA? All of this just pure humbug. What the ULFA is probably trying to do is to draw some attention to themselves. They have been left out to dry for a while, so passing a Dikat here and a Dikat there
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
Jugal-da, You did not specify that ULFA and their Paki ISI and Dawood Ibrahim brethren are not only sacrificing their own lives but also killing people all over the world. Dawood's crony Osama Bin Laden recently killed so many in London and now threatens many more innocent lives. Umesh Jugal-da wrote: The others are in the field sacrificing their careers and lives for something theybelieve in, even though you and we are free to disagree with them."J. Kalita" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think you are like the ULFA or anyone seeking independence,autonomy or whatever in Assam. You are ensconced in the prosperity andsecurity of America. The only thing you do is write, mostly in anambiguous and scrutable and sometimes unscrutable manner. The others arein the field sacrificing their careers and lives for something theybelieve in, even though you and we are free to disagree with them. This isthe fundamental difference between wordsmiths like you and me, and thelikes of the ULFA and other liberation-seekers.Jugal *** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. The above sentence is grammatically and logically incorrect, and does not mean anything if you analyze. We all, righ! tly or wrongly, claim to represent the popular opinion of the Assam. So the word unlike does not go there. And when you remove the word unlike, ULFA becomes like anybody else, me or you, us. Rajen*** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. Their constituency, their supporters, also believe that Indian political machinations have hurt Assam's interests. You may not accept that. But that is different.Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't invite from Delhi?Same explanation here.Why do you assume that just because some ! minister comes down from Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam.Come on Ram, you keep missing the obvious: ULFA does not recognize Indian controls over Assam. That is why they are telling Indians to keep out. It is not about whether it might be good or bad for Assam.But let me ask you this: Is it good for Assam, for its elections to be INFLUENCED by remote interests from elsewhere in India?Assuming ONLY regional parties participate in the elections, how will that benefit ULFA?I cannot speak for ULFA. But I am of the belief that Assam's interests are best served by political parties who are rooted in Assam, and w! hose elections are not interfered with by outside interests. That is what local self-government is all about.All of this just pure humbug. What the ULFA is probably trying to do is to draw some attention to themselves. They have been left out to dry for a while, so passing a Dikat here and a Dikat there might actually bring the spotlight on them.You may be right, or you may be wrong. Neither has anything to do with the premise of the original argument and conclusions, that started this debate.As for polarization problems, sitting cozily in Bangladesh, passing dikats, and encouraging illegal immigration does more to polarize than anything else.You can spin it anyway you wish. But can you show how ULFA is either encouraging illegal migration, or causing polarizations in Assam? At 11:03 AM -0500 8/3/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da If you were to be an independent observer and well-wisher of Assam, would that seem unreasonable or bad for Assam ? Of course, we are all well-wishers of Assam. But what has that go to do with ULFA's 'interest' in an election conducted by Indian authorities. They are the ones passing out dikats left and right, and basically infringing upon the free will of the Assamese people (not you ! and I). Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't invite from Delhi? Don't the Assamese in Assam know what is or what is not polarizing, instead of having the ULFA intelligensia forcing them to think otherwise and dictating behavior? Why do you assume that just because some minister comes down from Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam. When Assam had no regional parties, was Assam more (or less) polarized than it is now? Assuming ONLY regional parties participate in the elections, how will that benefit ULFA? All of this just pure humbug. What the ULFA is probably trying to do is to draw some attention to them! selves. They have been left out to dry for a while, so passing a Dikat here and a Dikat there might actually bring the spotlight on them. As for polarization problems, sitting cozily in Bangladesh, passing dikats, and encouraging illegal immigration does more to polarize than anything else. --RamOn 8/3/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Huh! So, it now seems that inspite of ULFA NOT recognizing Indian rule, they are still interested in
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
Hi Jugal, I grant you this - during the British times, yes, because of the strong British ideals for magnanimity and that they were also sure of themselves (they couldn't fathom that anyone would want to actually break away from the Empire), they did allow certain oppossing points of view. But they too did NOT allow those to be expressed in violence. They applied the laws against sedition very severely (Bhagat Singh an example). Subash Bose was always in hiding. Even Gandhi was accused of sedition, even though the British themselves knew he the apostle of peace. You may recall the number of times freedom fighters were imprisoned. So, even in the British times it was not easy for freedom fighters. And Sardar Patel died because of the beatings he sustained from the British. Now, in present day India, I think there is freedom of expression. Just read the newspapers. They are not all singing praises of the establishment. I do not think just talking about seperation or freedom necessarily means that one could be killed or jailed. In the case of South Africa, Mandela paid a huge price. Others like Patrice Lulumba was hunted down and killed. Where do you see any tolerance for seditious behavior (whether freedom was warranted or not). Nations will, usually not tolerate such behavior, specially if they are violent. In this country, you have incidents like Ruby Ridge. I am not sure which democratic country will, in this day and age, tolerate a section of its population going violent because they want freedom? Can you or anyone, name one such country? Britain again, came close to your definition, when they allowed Mullas to preach violence in mosques on English soil. Now, with the bombings, even the British patience has run out. Those Mullas now stand to be deported/jailed immediately (if they preach violence and hatred). It is not possible under current India's constitution to organize a party or movement that seeks independence in a legal manner. Legally, I think, one can sue the Govt. of India (or the Union) for a separation from the Union. It may NOT be in the Constitution, but Indian Courts do allow anyone to challenge the constitution. Whether the Supreme Court will hear such motions is another thing altogether. Jugal, I really cannot think of one single democratic country that will allow that in their constitution, a sedition clause. Does the US allow that, the UK? --Ram da On 8/4/05, J. Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have taken that into consideration, Ram da. During the British rule, it was possible, within the political system to talk about liberation or freedom. However, it's impossible to do so in a legal manner in current India under its constituion in a peaceful manner. It is not possible under current India's constitution to organize a party or movement that seeks independence in a legal manner. If someone tries to do so, they will be banned or even worse killed by the India government that exists today. Jugal Jugal, But you seem to be missing one important ingredient. All the people you listed below had mass followings and more importantly they did not have large sections of the people they wanted to 'liberate' NOT wanting them to do so on their behalf. Does ULFA have those qualities, ie. a large section of the Assamese population following their core ideals? Gandhi, Bose, Mandela were not elected memebrs, but they did command huge followings. Perhaps even Jinnah. And so did Mao and Hitler. Sometimes they were wrong (like Hitler) while at other times it paid off, like Mandela. Another important point is a 'populist leader or group' can get public support in two ways: By making people want such freedoms from their hearts. Or By using guns, threats, kidnappings, and 'or else' methods to 'win' people's hearts. IHMO, the former option is what the world looks up to and would at least give tacit support. What do you think the Assamese people will be more comfortable with? --Ram da On 8/3/05, J. Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the same logic, how did Mohandas Gandhi or Subhash Bose or Jinnah in pre-1947 British India represent the people of India? Was Mohandas Gandhi elected to be President/Prime Minister/king/emperor or whatever of pre-1947 India? Was he a demagogue? Did Nelson Mandela represent the people of South Africa when he was languishing in jail? Was he elected to represent the people of South Africa? Was Simon Bolivar elected by the countries of South America before he led the war for independence from Spain? Were the framers of the US constitution in Philadelphia elected by the people of America? Jugal Kalita Of course, we are all well-wishers of Assam. But what has that go to do with ULFA's 'interest' in an election conducted by Indian authorities. *** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or wrongly, claim to
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
Canada allows that! Jugal Jugal, I really cannot think of one single democratic country that will allow that in their constitution, a sedition clause. Does the US allow that, the UK? Catch 22 here, isn't it? No wonder then the only alternative is to defy the laws and even resort to violent means. But all this could have bee prevented, or at least diluted, when India saw what was brewing . Even at this late date things could be done, reforms undertaken to address the causes of the insurgencies. But India is unable and unwilling 25 years ago and is no different today. That is the difference. At 1:46 PM -0500 8/4/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hi Jugal, I grant you this - during the British times, yes, because of the strong British ideals for magnanimity and that they were also sure of themselves (they couldn't fathom that anyone would want to actually break away from the Empire), they did allow certain oppossing points of view. But they too did NOT allow those to be expressed in violence. They applied the laws against sedition very severely (Bhagat Singh an example). Subash Bose was always in hiding. Even Gandhi was accused of sedition, even though the British themselves knew he the apostle of peace. You may recall the number of times freedom fighters were imprisoned. So, even in the British times it was not easy for freedom fighters. And Sardar Patel died because of the beatings he sustained from the British. Now, in present day India, I think there is freedom of expression. Just read the newspapers. They are not all singing praises of the establishment. I do not think just talking about seperation or freedom necessarily means that one could be killed or jailed. In the case of South Africa, Mandela paid a huge price. Others like Patrice Lulumba was hunted down and killed. Where do you see any tolerance for seditious behavior (whether freedom was warranted or not). Nations will, usually not tolerate such behavior, specially if they are violent. In this country, you have incidents like Ruby Ridge. I am not sure which democratic country will, in this day and age, tolerate a section of its population going violent because they want freedom? Can you or anyone, name one such country? Britain again, came close to your definition, when they allowed Mullas to preach violence in mosques on English soil. Now, with the bombings, even the British patience has run out. Those Mullas now stand to be deported/jailed immediately (if they preach violence and hatred). It is not possible under current India's constitution to organize a party or movement that seeks independence in a legal manner. Legally, I think, one can sue the Govt. of India (or the Union) for a separation from the Union. It may NOT be in the Constitution, but Indian Courts do allow anyone to challenge the constitution. Whether the Supreme Court will hear such motions is another thing altogether. Jugal, I really cannot think of one single democratic country that will allow that in their constitution, a sedition clause. Does the US allow that, the UK? --Ram da On 8/4/05, J. Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have taken that into consideration, Ram da. During the British rule, it was possible, within the political system to talk about liberation or freedom. However, it's impossible to do so in a legal manner in current India under its constituion in a peaceful manner. It is not possible under current India's constitution to organize a party or movement that seeks independence in a legal manner. If someone tries to do so, they will be banned or even worse killed by the India government that exists today. Jugal Jugal, But you seem to be missing one important ingredient. All the people you listed below had mass followings and more importantly they did not have large sections of the people they wanted to 'liberate' NOT wanting them to do so on their behalf. Does ULFA have those qualities, ie. a large section of the Assamese population following their core ideals? Gandhi, Bose, Mandela were not elected memebrs, but they did command huge followings. Perhaps even Jinnah. And so did Mao and Hitler. Sometimes they were wrong (like Hitler) while at other times it paid off, like Mandela. Another important point is a 'populist leader or group' can get public support in two ways: By making people want such freedoms from their hearts. Or By using guns, threats, kidnappings, and 'or else' methods to 'win' people's hearts. IHMO, the former option is what the world looks up to and would at least give tacit support. What do you think the Assamese people will be more comfortable with? --Ram da On 8/3/05, J. Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the same logic, how did Mohandas Gandhi or Subhash Bose or Jinnah in pre-1947 British India represent the people of India? Was Mohandas Gandhi
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
The ULFA is everywhere in Assam. Their leadership is hiding. If they didn't exist in Assam, the Indian military apparatus won't be so active there. Even if many of them are not in Assam, unlike wordsmiths like you and me, they are pretty close by and make runs to Assam when necessary. Jugal And ULFA is not in Assam. So what is the difference? Rajen Barua - Original Message - From: J. Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Rajen Barua [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]; assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:23 PM Subject: RE: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA You are not in Assam. I am not in Assam. The Sarangapanis are not in Assam. Chandan Mahanta is not in Assam. I am almost scared to interject here - but I think I should say that the claim that We all, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the popular opinion of the Assam. is not correct. I certainly don't. I just claim to represent my own opinion and that too with great difficulty :-). Therefore, I am not like the ULFA. Actually, it would be interesting to know how many of the netters (other than RB) claim to represent the popular opinion of Assam? Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rajen Barua Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 3:22 PM To: Chan Mahanta Cc: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Subject: Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA *** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. The above sentence is grammatically and logically incorrect, and does not mean anything if you analyze. We all, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the popular opinion of the Assam. So the word unlike does not go there. And when you remove the word unlike, ULFA becomes like anybody else, me or you, us. Rajen *** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. Their constituency, their supporters, also believe that Indian political machinations have hurt Assam's interests. You may not accept that. But that is different. Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't invite from Delhi? Same explanation here. Why do you assume that just because some minister comes down from Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam. Come on Ram, you keep missing the obvious: ULFA does not recognize Indian controls over Assam. That is why they are telling Indians to keep out. It is not about whether it might be good or bad for Assam. But let me ask you this: Is it good for Assam, for its elections to be INFLUENCED by remote interests from elsewhere in India? Assuming ONLY regional parties participate in the elections, how will that benefit ULFA? I cannot speak for ULFA. But I am of the belief that Assam's interests are best served by political parties who are rooted in Assam, and whose elections are not interfered with by outside interests. That is what local self-government is all about. All of this just pure humbug. What the ULFA is probably trying to do is to draw some attention to themselves. They have been left out to dry for a while, so passing a Dikat here and a Dikat there might actually bring the spotlight on them. You may be right, or you may be wrong. Neither has anything to do with the premise of the original argument and conclusions, that started this debate. As for polarization problems, sitting cozily in Bangladesh, passing dikats, and encouraging illegal immigration does more to polarize than anything else. You can spin it anyway you wish. But can you show how ULFA is either encouraging illegal migration, or causing polarizations in Assam? At 11:03 AM -0500 8/3/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da If you were to be an independent observer and well-wisher of Assam, would that seem unreasonable or bad for Assam ? Of course, we are all well-wishers of Assam. But what has that go to do with ULFA's 'interest' in an election conducted by Indian authorities. They are the ones passing out dikats left and right, and basically infringing upon the free will of the Assamese people (not you and I). Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't invite from Delhi? Don't the Assamese in Assam know what is or what is not polarizing, instead of having the ULFA intelligensia forcing them to think otherwise and dictating behavior? Why do you assume that just because some minister comes down from Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam. When Assam had no regional parties, was Assam more (or less)
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
So, being a well-wisher of India, you and other vociferous mouths on behalf of Okhondo Bharat should tell the powers that be, that it is advisable to allow the nations within India to peacefully seek independence or autonomy within the political process. That will be the best thing you can do for India vis-a-vis the indepence seeking groups. Then, the problem of violence will go away. Those who cannot get support from the people will be a nuisance, but will vanish eventually. Hi Jugal, I grant you this - during the British times, yes, because of the strong British ideals for magnanimity and that they were also sure of themselves (they couldn't fathom that anyone would want to actually break away from the Empire), they did allow certain oppossing points of view. But they too did NOT allow those to be expressed in violence. They applied the laws against sedition very severely (Bhagat Singh an example). Subash Bose was always in hiding. Even Gandhi was accused of sedition, even though the British themselves knew he the apostle of peace. You may recall the number of times freedom fighters were imprisoned. So, even in the British times it was not easy for freedom fighters. And Sardar Patel died because of the beatings he sustained from the British. Now, in present day India, I think there is freedom of expression. Just read the newspapers. They are not all singing praises of the establishment. I do not think just talking about seperation or freedom necessarily means that one could be killed or jailed. In the case of South Africa, Mandela paid a huge price. Others like Patrice Lulumba was hunted down and killed. Where do you see any tolerance for seditious behavior (whether freedom was warranted or not). Nations will, usually not tolerate such behavior, specially if they are violent. In this country, you have incidents like Ruby Ridge. I am not sure which democratic country will, in this day and age, tolerate a section of its population going violent because they want freedom? Can you or anyone, name one such country? Britain again, came close to your definition, when they allowed Mullas to preach violence in mosques on English soil. Now, with the bombings, even the British patience has run out. Those Mullas now stand to be deported/jailed immediately (if they preach violence and hatred). It is not possible under current India's constitution to organize a party or movement that seeks independence in a legal manner. Legally, I think, one can sue the Govt. of India (or the Union) for a separation from the Union. It may NOT be in the Constitution, but Indian Courts do allow anyone to challenge the constitution. Whether the Supreme Court will hear such motions is another thing altogether. Jugal, I really cannot think of one single democratic country that will allow that in their constitution, a sedition clause. Does the US allow that, the UK? --Ram da On 8/4/05, J. Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have taken that into consideration, Ram da. During the British rule, it was possible, within the political system to talk about liberation or freedom. However, it's impossible to do so in a legal manner in current India under its constituion in a peaceful manner. It is not possible under current India's constitution to organize a party or movement that seeks independence in a legal manner. If someone tries to do so, they will be banned or even worse killed by the India government that exists today. Jugal Jugal, But you seem to be missing one important ingredient. All the people you listed below had mass followings and more importantly they did not have large sections of the people they wanted to 'liberate' NOT wanting them to do so on their behalf. Does ULFA have those qualities, ie. a large section of the Assamese population following their core ideals? Gandhi, Bose, Mandela were not elected memebrs, but they did command huge followings. Perhaps even Jinnah. And so did Mao and Hitler. Sometimes they were wrong (like Hitler) while at other times it paid off, like Mandela. Another important point is a 'populist leader or group' can get public support in two ways: By making people want such freedoms from their hearts. Or By using guns, threats, kidnappings, and 'or else' methods to 'win' people's hearts. IHMO, the former option is what the world looks up to and would at least give tacit support. What do you think the Assamese people will be more comfortable with? --Ram da On 8/3/05, J. Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the same logic, how did Mohandas Gandhi or Subhash Bose or Jinnah in pre-1947 British India represent the people of India? Was Mohandas Gandhi elected to be President/Prime Minister/king/emperor or whatever of pre-1947 India? Was he a demagogue? Did Nelson Mandela represent the people of South Africa when he was languishing in jail? Was he elected to
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
Catch 22 here, isn't it? It sure is. No wonder then the only alternative is to defy the laws and even resort to violent means. Many countries will allow you to at least challenge the validity of the Constitution in such cases. Even India does. So, violence and breaking laws is not the ONLY way out. But IF they see that IT IS the only way out, then, of course, those who defy such laws oughtn't to cry foul when they are hunted down. They know the rules of the game. The freedom they thus seek, if it does come, comes at a high price, and they should be prepared for the worst and hope for the best. But all this could have bee prevented, or at least diluted, when India saw what was brewing Wonder what the US would do in such a situation? The US for all its might and glory and democratic institution, puts down such insurgent tendencies with swift and summary justice. They have no patience or do not as a policy go soft on such groups. But India is unable and unwilling 25 years ago and is no different today. C'da, its a two-way traffic. IMHO, the ULFA has to put down arms and stop violence before the GOI will give it any serious hearing. The GOI for all its faults can keep this festering for another 50 years without flinching, can the ULFA? In the end the people lose. --Ram On 8/4/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jugal, I really cannot think of one single democratic country that will allow that in their constitution, a sedition clause. Does the US allow that, the UK? Catch 22 here, isn't it? No wonder then the only alternative is to defy the laws and even resort to violent means. But all this could have bee prevented, or at least diluted, when India saw what was brewing . Even at this late date things could be done, reforms undertaken to address the causes of the insurgencies. But India is unable and unwilling 25 years ago and is no different today. That is the difference. At 1:46 PM -0500 8/4/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hi Jugal, I grant you this - during the British times, yes, because of the strong British ideals for magnanimity and that they were also sure of themselves (they couldn't fathom that anyone would want to actually break away from the Empire), they did allow certain oppossing points of view. But they too did NOT allow those to be expressed in violence. They applied the laws against sedition very severely (Bhagat Singh an example). Subash Bose was always in hiding. Even Gandhi was accused of sedition, even though the British themselves knew he the apostle of peace. You may recall the number of times freedom fighters were imprisoned. So, even in the British times it was not easy for freedom fighters. And Sardar Patel died because of the beatings he sustained from the British. Now, in present day India, I think there is freedom of expression. Just read the newspapers. They are not all singing praises of the establishment. I do not think just talking about seperation or freedom necessarily means that one could be killed or jailed. In the case of South Africa, Mandela paid a huge price. Others like Patrice Lulumba was hunted down and killed. Where do you see any tolerance for seditious behavior (whether freedom was warranted or not). Nations will, usually not tolerate such behavior, specially if they are violent. In this country, you have incidents like Ruby Ridge. I am not sure which democratic country will, in this day and age, tolerate a section of its population going violent because they want freedom? Can you or anyone, name one such country? Britain again, came close to your definition, when they allowed Mullas to preach violence in mosques on English soil. Now, with the bombings, even the British patience has run out. Those Mullas now stand to be deported/jailed immediately (if they preach violence and hatred). It is not possible under current India's constitution to organize a party or movement that seeks independence in a legal manner. Legally, I think, one can sue the Govt. of India (or the Union) for a separation from the Union. It may NOT be in the Constitution, but Indian Courts do allow anyone to challenge the constitution. Whether the Supreme Court will hear such motions is another thing altogether. Jugal, I really cannot think of one single democratic country that will allow that in their constitution, a sedition clause. Does the US allow that, the UK? --Ram da On 8/4/05, J. Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have taken that into consideration, Ram da. During the British rule, it was possible, within the political system to talk about liberation or freedom. However, it's impossible to do so in a legal manner in current India under its constituion in a peaceful manner. It is not possible under current India's constitution to organize a party or movement that seeks independence in a legal manner. If someone
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
At 1:42 PM -0500 8/4/05, Rajen Barua wrote: And ULFA is not in Assam. Really? That is news to me. So what is the difference? Rajen Barua - Original Message - From: J. Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Roy, Santanu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Rajen Barua [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]; assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:23 PM Subject: RE: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA You are not in Assam. I am not in Assam. The Sarangapanis are not in Assam. Chandan Mahanta is not in Assam. I am almost scared to interject here - but I think I should say that the claim that We all, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the popular opinion of the Assam. is not correct. I certainly don't. I just claim to represent my own opinion and that too with great difficulty :-). Therefore, I am not like the ULFA. Actually, it would be interesting to know how many of the netters (other than RB) claim to represent the popular opinion of Assam? Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rajen Barua Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 3:22 PM To: Chan Mahanta Cc: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Subject: Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA *** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. The above sentence is grammatically and logically incorrect, and does not mean anything if you analyze. We all, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the popular opinion of the Assam. So the word unlike does not go there. And when you remove the word unlike, ULFA becomes like anybody else, me or you, us. Rajen *** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. Their constituency, their supporters, also believe that Indian political machinations have hurt Assam's interests. You may not accept that. But that is different. Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't invite from Delhi? Same explanation here. Why do you assume that just because some minister comes down from Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam. Come on Ram, you keep missing the obvious: ULFA does not recognize Indian controls over Assam. That is why they are telling Indians to keep out. It is not about whether it might be good or bad for Assam. But let me ask you this: Is it good for Assam, for its elections to be INFLUENCED by remote interests from elsewhere in India? Assuming ONLY regional parties participate in the elections, how will that benefit ULFA? I cannot speak for ULFA. But I am of the belief that Assam's interests are best served by political parties who are rooted in Assam, and whose elections are not interfered with by outside interests. That is what local self-government is all about. All of this just pure humbug. What the ULFA is probably trying to do is to draw some attention to themselves. They have been left out to dry for a while, so passing a Dikat here and a Dikat there might actually bring the spotlight on them. You may be right, or you may be wrong. Neither has anything to do with the premise of the original argument and conclusions, that started this debate. As for polarization problems, sitting cozily in Bangladesh, passing dikats, and encouraging illegal immigration does more to polarize than anything else. You can spin it anyway you wish. But can you show how ULFA is either encouraging illegal migration, or causing polarizations in Assam? At 11:03 AM -0500 8/3/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da If you were to be an independent observer and well-wisher of Assam, would that seem unreasonable or bad for Assam ? Of course, we are all well-wishers of Assam. But what has that go to do with ULFA's 'interest' in an election conducted by Indian authorities. They are the ones passing out dikats left and right, and basically infringing upon the free will of the Assamese people (not you and I). Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't invite from Delhi? Don't the Assamese in Assam know what is or what is not polarizing, instead of having the ULFA intelligensia forcing them to think otherwise and dictating behavior? Why do you assume that just because some minister comes down from Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam. When Assam had no regional parties, was Assam more (or less) polarized than it is now? Assuming ONLY regional parties participate in the elections, how will that benefit ULFA? All of this just pure humbug. What the ULFA is probably trying to do is to draw some
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
Canada allows that That is interesting. I did not know that Canada has a provisio in its Constitution allowing sedition. --Ram da On 8/4/05, J. Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Canada allows that! Jugal Jugal, I really cannot think of one single democratic country that will allow that in their constitution, a sedition clause. Does the US allow that, the UK? Catch 22 here, isn't it? No wonder then the only alternative is to defy the laws and even resort to violent means. But all this could have bee prevented, or at least diluted, when India saw what was brewing . Even at this late date things could be done, reforms undertaken to address the causes of the insurgencies. But India is unable and unwilling 25 years ago and is no different today. That is the difference. At 1:46 PM -0500 8/4/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hi Jugal, I grant you this - during the British times, yes, because of the strong British ideals for magnanimity and that they were also sure of themselves (they couldn't fathom that anyone would want to actually break away from the Empire), they did allow certain oppossing points of view. But they too did NOT allow those to be expressed in violence. They applied the laws against sedition very severely (Bhagat Singh an example). Subash Bose was always in hiding. Even Gandhi was accused of sedition, even though the British themselves knew he the apostle of peace. You may recall the number of times freedom fighters were imprisoned. So, even in the British times it was not easy for freedom fighters. And Sardar Patel died because of the beatings he sustained from the British. Now, in present day India, I think there is freedom of expression. Just read the newspapers. They are not all singing praises of the establishment. I do not think just talking about seperation or freedom necessarily means that one could be killed or jailed. In the case of South Africa, Mandela paid a huge price. Others like Patrice Lulumba was hunted down and killed. Where do you see any tolerance for seditious behavior (whether freedom was warranted or not). Nations will, usually not tolerate such behavior, specially if they are violent. In this country, you have incidents like Ruby Ridge. I am not sure which democratic country will, in this day and age, tolerate a section of its population going violent because they want freedom? Can you or anyone, name one such country? Britain again, came close to your definition, when they allowed Mullas to preach violence in mosques on English soil. Now, with the bombings, even the British patience has run out. Those Mullas now stand to be deported/jailed immediately (if they preach violence and hatred). It is not possible under current India's constitution to organize a party or movement that seeks independence in a legal manner. Legally, I think, one can sue the Govt. of India (or the Union) for a separation from the Union. It may NOT be in the Constitution, but Indian Courts do allow anyone to challenge the constitution. Whether the Supreme Court will hear such motions is another thing altogether. Jugal, I really cannot think of one single democratic country that will allow that in their constitution, a sedition clause. Does the US allow that, the UK? --Ram da On 8/4/05, J. Kalita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have taken that into consideration, Ram da. During the British rule, it was possible, within the political system to talk about liberation or freedom. However, it's impossible to do so in a legal manner in current India under its constituion in a peaceful manner. It is not possible under current India's constitution to organize a party or movement that seeks independence in a legal manner. If someone tries to do so, they will be banned or even worse killed by the India government that exists today. Jugal Jugal, But you seem to be missing one important ingredient. All the people you listed below had mass followings and more importantly they did not have large sections of the people they wanted to 'liberate' NOT wanting them to do so on their behalf. Does ULFA have those qualities, ie. a large section of the Assamese population following their core ideals? Gandhi, Bose, Mandela were not elected memebrs, but they did command huge followings. Perhaps even Jinnah. And so did Mao and Hitler. Sometimes they were wrong (like Hitler) while at other times it paid off, like Mandela. Another important point is a 'populist leader or group' can get public support in two ways: By making people want such freedoms from their hearts. Or By using guns, threats, kidnappings, and 'or else' methods to 'win' people's hearts. IHMO, the former option is what the world looks up to and would at least give
RE: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
You are not in Assam. I am not in Assam. The Sarangapanis are not inAssam. Chandan Mahanta is not in Assam. Very true. So, whoeverlives in Assam is an ULFA or has the right to be one and kill the innocent? If they only fought the government and left the common people in peace I wouldn't care. I only care because it is costing Assam a great deal- holding it back from being economically advanced. With all the violence and bandhs and what not, it is making people thatlive onhourly wages, beggers from being 'simply poor'. Only a certain group of people are making money - beimaani everywhere. The money that the state government spend on feeding the Army and the CRPs is diverted from it being spent on a semi-permanent solution to the flood problem in Assam. The already incompetent government can't concentrate (just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt before totally giving up on them too, that they would have worked hard to take Assam forward like they are supposed to, otherwise) on economic development of the state but is constantly fighting insurgency. And taking the name of ULFA and oftenputting the blame on them, there are so many groups of people that are creating havocs in the cities in Assam that nobody can trust anybody. Oxomotenekuwa bishringkhol oboshar shristi korar baabe` dayii kun? Kune` sol dile` baare-bongoluwa maanh aahiOxomot xumaai suri-dokaiti kori din-duporote`maanuh mora obosthar shristi kora? I think all these insurgent groups!! It is not costing the so called "leaders" anything, they are loaded with the money they extort in the name of "saving Assam", educating their children in foreign countries, but it is costing lives to the Nodai-Bhodai's that are taking up guns and fighting theauthority - thats what is making themdisliked by the common people of Assam, who are not getting fooled by their big talks. And a few of thosebig talkersduring the'bidexi kheda aandolon' are also on 'Raj-Paat' now, stillsucking the blood of the common people. I see their names on the onlinenewspapers of Assam every so oftenand that'swhen I want to puke in disgust toward them and cry inside for the misery endured bymy honest and hard-workingfriends and relatives in Assam, in addition to what they have to face everyday to get water, fire and food to survive. Sounds like a melodrama? So be it. It was nothing but an echo of the feelings ofa common man - an honest and truthful,hard-working commonAssamese who still LIVES IN ASSAM but wants to live andnot just survive. From: "J. Kalita" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: "Roy, Santanu" [EMAIL PROTECTED]CC: Rajen Barua [EMAIL PROTECTED], assam@pikespeak.uccs.eduSubject: RE: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFADate: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 12:23:40 -0600 (MDT)You are not in Assam. I am not in Assam. The Sarangapanis are not inAssam. Chandan Mahanta is not in Assam. I am almost scared to interject here - but I think I should say that the claim that "We all, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the popular opinion of the Assam." is not correct. I certainly don't. I just claim to represent my own opinion and that too with great difficulty :-). Therefore, I am not like the ULFA. Actually, it would be interesting to know how many of the netters (other than RB) claim to represent the popular opinion of Assam? Santanu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rajen Barua Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 3:22 PM To: Chan Mahanta Cc: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Subject: Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA *** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. The above sentence is grammatically and logically incorrect, and does not mean anything if you analyze. We all, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the popular opinion of the Assam. So the word unlike does not go there. And when you remove the word unlike, ULFA becomes like anybody else, me or you, us. Rajen*** Unlike me or you, ULFA is made up of people, who, rightly or wrongly, claim to represent the wishes of the people of Assam. Their constituency, their supporters, also believe that Indian political machinations have hurt Assam's interests. You may not accept that. But that is different. Who is the ULFA to tell the Assamese whom they should or shouldn't invite from Delhi? Same explanation here. Why do you assume that just because some minister comes down from Delhi to lecture, it is necessarily bad or polarizing for Assam. Come on Ram, you keep missing the obvious: ULFA does not recognize Indian controls over Assam. That is why they are telling Indians to keep out. It is not about whether it might be good or bad for Assam. But let me ask you this: Is it good for Assam, for its elections to be INFLUENCED by remote interests from elsewhere in India? Assuming ONLY regional parties participate in the elections, how
[Assam] Herpes - Ignorant NRI kids: I don't need to worry says Harvard Health
Hi, I received a Voice Mail message on Tuesdayatnoon" This is a message for Mr Sharma from Harvard University Health Services . Thetesting you had done and required your signature is all negative. Ahh U There is no cause for concern. All the blood work is negative and fine. Take care." Maybe over phone they do not mention what tests I had taken -- but the tests were for AIDS, Genital Herpes, Hepitis B etc - all incurable diseases. http://www.teensource.org/RunScript.asp?page=133Poll_ID=4p=ASP\Pg133.asp It gives me a piece of mind that for one third of my life - the most dangerous part - for acquiring AIDS or STDs is through without any scars. Though not from sexual contacts but from doctors errors while performing tests or operations - such for tonsilitis etc or other ways of getting the diseases - harmless contact ( The Genital Herpesvirus is spread only rarely, if at all, by touching objects such as a toilet seat or hot tub http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/stdherp.htm) My room mate - is the only child whose both parents are software engineers and always pointing out what to eat and what not to eat - he can't drink milk, Coca Cola or eat rice - since he would grow fat - he is moderately so now. But they never told him about a terrible diseasewith somanyhaving itin US (genital herpes infection is common in the United States. Nationwide, at least 45 million people ages 12 and older, or one out of five adolescents and adults, have had genital HSV infection. Between the late 1970s and the early 1990s, the number of Americans with genital herpes infection increased 30 percent. http://www.cdc.gov/std/Herpes/STDFact-Herpes.htm) and he went about having sex with many partners (including with an Indian girl in his college classroom - if he is to be believed) without knowing that he could get these STD through oral sex also. My landlord - also a software engineer - says that while working for TELCO in Mumbai - ALL 30 of his room mates at the Kerala hostel used to visit prostitutes at Kamathipura Red Light area in Mumbai on the weekends. Each had a favorite one. One of them infact married one of them-after these guys went in 6 cars and rescued her. He always used condoms - even though she didn't want it. So this is how education is helping avoid prostitution and female trafficking in India. his doctor father had warned him that free sexual experimentation can lead to incurable diseases - they had watched James Bond movies together when he was a child. Perhaps his (my room mate's)Guru Osho Rajneesh also died of such a disease. However he wants a homely virigin wife. Is it surprising? Umesh Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
RE: [Assam] Herpes - Ignorant NRI kids: I don't need to worry says HarvardHealth
Oh, Umesh-ji. Just can't stand it anymore. As long as you don't become one IBCD at this age- Indian Born Confused Deshi,everytihng will be fine. Also, about ADD/ADHD (Attention Deficit/Hyperativity Disorder) syndrome kids that only the NRI parents have to go through to put their ADD kidsin special class-rooms is a bunch of baloney. Kids with ADD is a common problem in the elementary/secondary schools and even many professional Americanadults with Master's degrees(including African Americans,people of Hispanic origin,Caucasian Americans),are being diagnosed as having the ADD problem. It is a social problem in America. A closed minded but brilliant and hard-workingIndian American told me some are taking it as an excuse to avoid resposibilities. so what's new?? From: umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: assam@pikespeak.uccs.eduSubject: [Assam] Herpes - Ignorant NRI kids: I don't need to worry says HarvardHealthDate: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 20:50:27 +0100 (BST)Hi,I received a Voice Mail message on Tuesday at noon" This is a message for Mr Sharma from Harvard University Health Services . The testing you had done and required your signature is all negative. Ahh U There is no cause for concern. All the blood work is negative and fine. Take care."Maybe over phone they do not mention what tests I had taken -- but the tests were for AIDS, Genital Herpes, Hepitis B etc - all incurable diseases.http://www.teensource.org/RunScript.asp?page=133Poll_ID=4p=ASP\Pg133.aspIt gives me a piece of mind that for one third of my life - the most dangerous part - for acquiring AIDS or STDs is through without any scars. Though not from sexual contacts but from doctors errors while performing tests or operations - such for tonsilitis etc or other ways of getting the diseases - harmless contact ( The Genital Herpes virus is spread only rarely, if at all, by touching objects such as a toilet seat or hot tub http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/stdherp.htm)My room mate - is the only child whose both parents are software engineers and always pointing out what to eat and what not to eat - he can't drink milk, Coca Cola or eat rice - since he would grow fat - he is moderately so now. But they never told him about a terrible disease with so many having it in US(genital herpes infection is common in the United States. Nationwide, at least 45 million people ages 12 and older, or one out of five adolescents and adults, have had genital HSV infection. Between the late 1970s and the early 1990s, the number of Americans with genital herpes infection increased 30 percent. http://www.cdc.gov/std/Herpes/STDFact-Herpes.htm ) and he went about having sex with many partners (including with an Indian girl in his college classroom - if he is to be believed) without knowing that he could get these STD through oral sex also.My landlord - also a software engineer - says that while working for TELCO in Mumbai - ALL 30 of his room mates at the Kerala hostel used to visit prostitutes at Kamathipura Red Light area in Mumbai on the weekends. Each had a favorite one. One of them infact married one of them-after these guys went in 6 cars and rescued her. He always used condoms - even though she didn't want it. So this is how education is helping avoid prostitution and female trafficking in India. his doctor father had warned him that free sexual experimentation can lead to incurable diseases - they had watched James Bond movies together when he was a child. Perhaps his (my room mate's) Guru Osho Rajneesh also died of such a disease.However he wants a homely virigin wife. Is it surprising?Umesh-Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail___Assam mailing listAssam@pikespeak.uccs.eduhttp://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assamMailing list FAQ:http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.htmlTo unsubscribe or change options:http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
RE: [Assam] Herpes - Ignorant NRI kids: I don't need to worry says HarvardHealth
Alpanaji, Glad to hear your views. Just that I do not understand why ADD kids need to survive only on pills and also why they should not be provided sex education. Umesh"Alpana B. Sarangapani" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, Umesh-ji. Just can't stand it anymore. As long as you don't become one IBCD at this age- Indian Born Confused Deshi,everytihng will be fine. Also, about ADD/ADHD (Attention Deficit/Hyperativity Disorder) syndrome kids that only the NRI parents have to go through to put their ADD kidsin special class-rooms is a bunch of baloney. Kids with ADD is a common problem in the elementary/secondary schools and even many professional Americanadults with Master's degrees(including African Americans,people of Hispanic origin,Caucasian Americans),are being diagnosed as having the ADD problem. It is a social problem in America. A closed minded but brilliant and hard-workingIndian American told me some are taking it as an excuse to avoid resposibilities. so what's new?? From: umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: assam@pikespeak.uccs.eduSubject: [Assam] Herpes - Ignorant NRI kids: I don't need to worry says HarvardHealthDate: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 20:50:27 +0100 (BST)Hi,I received a Voice Mail message on Tuesday at noon" This is a message for Mr Sharma from Harvard University Health Services . The testing you had done and required your signature is all negative. Ahh U There is no cause for concern. All the blood work is negative and fine. Take care."Maybe over phone they do not mention what tests I had taken -- but the tests were for AIDS, Genital Herpes, Hepitis B etc - all incurable diseases.http://www.teensource.org/RunScript.asp?page=133Poll_ID=4p=ASP\Pg133.aspIt gives me a piece of mind that for one third of my life - the most dangerous part - for acquirin! g AIDS or STDs is through without any scars. Though not from sexual contacts but from doctors errors while performing tests or operations - such for tonsilitis etc or other ways of getting the diseases - harmless contact ( The Genital Herpes virus is spread only rarely, if at all, by touching objects such as a toilet seat or hot tub http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/stdherp.htm)My room mate - is the only child whose both parents are software engineers and always pointing out what to eat and what not to eat - he can't drink milk, Coca Cola or eat rice - since he would grow fat - he is moderately so now. But they never told him about a terrible disease with so many having it in US(genital herpes infection is common in the United States. Nationwide, at least 45 million people ages 12 and older, or one out of five adolescents and adults, have had genital HSV infection. Between the late 1970s and the early 1990s, the number of Americans with genital herpes infect! ion increased 30 percent. http://www.cdc.gov/std/Herpes/STDFact-Herpes.htm ) and he went about having sex with many partners (including with an Indian girl in his college classroom - if he is to be believed) without knowing that he could get these STD through oral sex also.My landlord - also a software engineer - says that while working for TELCO in Mumbai - ALL 30 of his room mates at the Kerala hostel used to visit prostitutes at Kamathipura Red Light area in Mumbai on the weekends. Each had a favorite one. One of them infact married one of them-after these guys went in 6 cars and rescued her. He always used condoms - even though she didn't want it. So this is how education is helping avoid prostitution and female trafficking in India. his doctor father had warned him that free sexual experimentation can lead to incurable diseases - they had watched James Bond movies together when he was a child. Perhaps his (my room mate's) Guru Osho Rajneesh also die! d of such a disease.However he wants a homely virigin wife. Is it surprising?Umesh-Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail___Assam mailing listAssam@pikespeak.uccs.eduhttp://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assamMailing list FAQ:http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.htmlTo unsubscribe or change options:http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam Does your mail provider give you access to messages sent to other POP email accounts, like your work account? Get Yahoo! Mail___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
Even India does. So, violence and breaking laws is not the ONLY way out. Show me an instance of Indian democracy's effectiveness or efficacy in preventing all the violent uprisings the country has since 1947 peacefully? Only the last week or so, the police brutalized Honda employees savagely. Is that how the justice system work in this great civilization? India is one of the most violent nations on earth.In spite of the ceaseless propaganda touting the virtues of a peace loving country, its depredations over its weakest segments is unprecedented for a country that professes non-violence traditions and democratic behavior. But IF they see that IT IS the only way out, then, of course, those The laws are tools of the privileged,the powerful and the predatory to protect their interests. They are rarely to be found to protect the powerless and the disenfranchised. who defy such laws oughtn't to cry foul when they are hunted down. *** This is just a demonstration of the real India's rule of laws-- the propensity hunt down its own like game in an open season. C'da, its a two-way traffic. How is it a two way traffic Ram, when 13 reps, beholden to their bosses in Delhi, represent and protect the predatory policies enacted by a Lok Sabha of 400? Where are the checks and balances of democracy? The GOI for all its faults can keep this festering for another 50 years without flinching, *** We have noticed Ram. Shows India's commitments to the sanctity of human life--even its own. can the ULFA? In the end the people lose. *** That is exactly like the advise to rape victims to enjoy the act if it could not be prevented. BTW, ULFA's telling Indian politicians to stay out of exploiting Assam elections is one of those things it can do, feeble as it might be, to keep the predators at bay. Too bad many of its intelligentsia cannot found to stand by it when it is being raped, overtly and insidiously. At 2:39 PM -0500 8/4/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Catch 22 here, isn't it? It sure is. No wonder then the only alternative is to defy the laws and even resort to violent means. Many countries will allow you to at least challenge the validity of the Constitution in such cases. Even India does. So, violence and breaking laws is not the ONLY way out. But IF they see that IT IS the only way out, then, of course, those who defy such laws oughtn't to cry foul when they are hunted down. They know the rules of the game. The freedom they thus seek, if it does come, comes at a high price, and they should be prepared for the worst and hope for the best. But all this could have bee prevented, or at least diluted, when India saw what was brewing Wonder what the US would do in such a situation? The US for all its might and glory and democratic institution, puts down such insurgent tendencies with swift and summary justice. They have no patience or do not as a policy go soft on such groups. But India is unable and unwilling 25 years ago and is no different today. C'da, its a two-way traffic. IMHO, the ULFA has to put down arms and stop violence before the GOI will give it any serious hearing. The GOI for all its faults can keep this festering for another 50 years without flinching, can the ULFA? In the end the people lose. --Ram On 8/4/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jugal, I really cannot think of one single democratic country that will allow that in their constitution, a sedition clause. Does the US allow that, the UK? Catch 22 here, isn't it? No wonder then the only alternative is to defy the laws and even resort to violent means. But all this could have bee prevented, or at least diluted, when India saw what was brewing . Even at this late date things could be done, reforms undertaken to address the causes of the insurgencies. But India is unable and unwilling 25 years ago and is no different today. That is the difference. At 1:46 PM -0500 8/4/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hi Jugal, I grant you this - during the British times, yes, because of the strong British ideals for magnanimity and that they were also sure of themselves (they couldn't fathom that anyone would want to actually break away from the Empire), they did allow certain oppossing points of view. But they too did NOT allow those to be expressed in violence. They applied the laws against sedition very severely (Bhagat Singh an example). Subash Bose was always in hiding. Even Gandhi was accused of sedition, even though the British themselves knew he the apostle of peace. You may recall the number of times freedom fighters were imprisoned. So, even in the British times it was not easy for freedom fighters. And Sardar Patel died because of the beatings he sustained from the British. Now, in present day India, I think there is freedom of expression. Just read the newspapers. They are not all singing
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
C'da, Show me an instance of Indian democracy's effectiveness or efficacy in preventing all the violent uprisings the country has since 1947 peacefully? Peacefully? So, when insurgents go for the gun, the govt. is expected to tackle it peacefully? Where is the logic? Yes, there should be negotiations to come to some sort of settlement, but obviously the Govt (and Govt.) will unleash its police or military to quell violence - specially when inncocent people are caught in the middle. Only the last week or so, the police brutalized Honda employees savagely. Is that how the justice system work in this great civilization? I agree, that was bad and in poor taste on the part of the police etc. Those found guilt should be immediately punished. The justice will work it way, and the guilty will be punished. The strikers on the other hand were striking because some were laid off. The Capitalism is a double-edged sword, it doesn't come sugar-coated in situations like this. India is one of the most violent nations on earth.In spite of the ceaseless propaganda touting the virtues of a peace loving country, its depredations Obviously more than Pakistan, B'Desh, Dafur, the Congo, N Korea! *** This is just a demonstration of the real India's rule of laws-- the propensity hunt down its own like game in an open season. The US or UK also hunt down their own kind when they become violent. Why should India or any other country be different? C'da, its a two-way traffic. How is it a two way traffic Ram, when 13 reps, beholden to their bosses in Delhi, represent and protect the predatory policies enacted by a Lok Sabha of 400? Where are the checks and balances of democracy? You took that totally out of context. This is what I wrote earlier: C'da, its a two-way traffic. IMHO, the ULFA has to put down arms and stop violence before the GOI will give it any serious hearing. The GOI for all its faults can keep this festering for another 50 years without flinching, *** We have noticed Ram. Shows India's commitments to the sanctity of human life--even its own. can the ULFA? In the end the people lose. *** That is exactly like the advise to rape victims to enjoy the act if it could not be prevented. I am in no position advice anyone. But I would venture those are the facts. The GOI being more powerful and with more resources can sustain an elongated, deary battle. The ULFA or other insurgent groups do not have those. If the GOI does not want to give an inch, they can keep going. Yes, they may be blood-letting etc, but they have all the aces. IMHO, the ULFA will not be able to add or improve upon any more additional benefits that they have given the people of Assam. One big benefit, for example, has been that Delhi is now fully aware that Assam and the NE need serious attention and cannot and should not be marginalized any more. Thats one benefit that could be attributed to the insurgency. BTW, ULFA's telling Indian politicians to stay out of exploiting Assam elections is one of those things it can do, feeble as it might be, to keep the predators at bay. Too bad many of its intelligentsia cannot found to stand by it when it is being raped, overtly and insidiously. I guess, that would be one way to look at it. The other would be telling Indians to stay out of India. --Ram On 8/4/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Even India does. So, violence and breaking laws is not the ONLY way out. Show me an instance of Indian democracy's effectiveness or efficacy in preventing all the violent uprisings the country has since 1947 peacefully? Only the last week or so, the police brutalized Honda employees savagely. Is that how the justice system work in this great civilization? India is one of the most violent nations on earth.In spite of the ceaseless propaganda touting the virtues of a peace loving country, its depredations over its weakest segments is unprecedented for a country that professes non-violence traditions and democratic behavior. But IF they see that IT IS the only way out, then, of course, those The laws are tools of the privileged,the powerful and the predatory to protect their interests. They are rarely to be found to protect the powerless and the disenfranchised. who defy such laws oughtn't to cry foul when they are hunted down. *** This is just a demonstration of the real India's rule of laws-- the propensity hunt down its own like game in an open season. C'da, its a two-way traffic. How is it a two way traffic Ram, when 13 reps, beholden to their bosses in Delhi, represent and protect the predatory policies enacted by a Lok Sabha of 400? Where are the checks and balances of democracy? The GOI for all its faults can keep this festering for another 50 years without flinching, *** We have noticed Ram. Shows India's commitments to the sanctity of human life--even its own. can
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
Central leaders come to the state to campaign because people want to listen to them and then form opinions. The ULFA is not stopping elections to the state and federal level (at least not yet) - they are preventing leaders that PEOPLE IN ASSAM want them to vist from visiting during elections. After all, Narasimha Rao was never invited and Sonia Gandhi always is. The elections will happen, the state structure will remain the same. No change there. The only thing perhaps that will happen will be that the elections will be COERCED into having an outcome they want. If indeed the ULFA has such appeal amongst the masses - why issue a threat against political parties or civilians. Why not just appeal (not coerce, appeal) to the public to refrain from attending meetings that have central leaders in the interests of Assam. Without any threat whatsoever. Guess what would be the outcome amongst the people of such an appeal? --- Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Catch 22 here, isn't it? It sure is. No wonder then the only alternative is to defy the laws and even resort to violent means. Many countries will allow you to at least challenge the validity of the Constitution in such cases. Even India does. So, violence and breaking laws is not the ONLY way out. But IF they see that IT IS the only way out, then, of course, those who defy such laws oughtn't to cry foul when they are hunted down. They know the rules of the game. The freedom they thus seek, if it does come, comes at a high price, and they should be prepared for the worst and hope for the best. But all this could have bee prevented, or at least diluted, when India saw what was brewing Wonder what the US would do in such a situation? The US for all its might and glory and democratic institution, puts down such insurgent tendencies with swift and summary justice. They have no patience or do not as a policy go soft on such groups. But India is unable and unwilling 25 years ago and is no different today. C'da, its a two-way traffic. IMHO, the ULFA has to put down arms and stop violence before the GOI will give it any serious hearing. The GOI for all its faults can keep this festering for another 50 years without flinching, can the ULFA? In the end the people lose. --Ram On 8/4/05, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jugal, I really cannot think of one single democratic country that will allow that in their constitution, a sedition clause. Does the US allow that, the UK? Catch 22 here, isn't it? No wonder then the only alternative is to defy the laws and even resort to violent means. But all this could have bee prevented, or at least diluted, when India saw what was brewing . Even at this late date things could be done, reforms undertaken to address the causes of the insurgencies. But India is unable and unwilling 25 years ago and is no different today. That is the difference. At 1:46 PM -0500 8/4/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hi Jugal, I grant you this - during the British times, yes, because of the strong British ideals for magnanimity and that they were also sure of themselves (they couldn't fathom that anyone would want to actually break away from the Empire), they did allow certain oppossing points of view. But they too did NOT allow those to be expressed in violence. They applied the laws against sedition very severely (Bhagat Singh an example). Subash Bose was always in hiding. Even Gandhi was accused of sedition, even though the British themselves knew he the apostle of peace. You may recall the number of times freedom fighters were imprisoned. So, even in the British times it was not easy for freedom fighters. And Sardar Patel died because of the beatings he sustained from the British. Now, in present day India, I think there is freedom of expression. Just read the newspapers. They are not all singing praises of the establishment. I do not think just talking about seperation or freedom necessarily means that one could be killed or jailed. In the case of South Africa, Mandela paid a huge price. Others like Patrice Lulumba was hunted down and killed. Where do you see any tolerance for seditious behavior (whether freedom was warranted or not). Nations will, usually not tolerate such behavior, specially if they are violent. In this country, you have incidents like Ruby Ridge. I am not sure which democratic country will, in this day and age, tolerate a section of its population going violent because they want freedom? Can you or anyone, name one such country? Britain again, came close to your definition, when they allowed Mullas to preach violence in mosques on English soil. Now, with the bombings, even the British patience has run out. Those Mullas now
[Assam] A taste of their own bad medicine
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/04/bus.shooting/index.html Now Israeli terrorists kill Arab civilians. It is a crazy world. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
Canada allows thatThat is interesting. I did not know that Canada has a provisio in itsConstitution allowing sedition.--Ram da In a landmark Judgement, delivered by the Supreme Court of Canada in 1998 states, "it is not legal under Canadian Constitution. In fact, no word or a single line exists in the Canadian Constitution on this subject. Hence, no secession is allowed." A short note on the current whereabouts of the ULFA leaders. They must be enjoying expensive junkets offered by Dawood miya. In my view, any discussion on the separation of Assam from the rest of India, is as queer as a three dollar bill. Nevertheless, the ULFA is allowed to subsidize it's own demise by sticking to the "three dollar bill" demand. KJD. ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
[Assam] Pakistani arrested in Maryland
A Pak. Maryland paramedic on terror count for taking training to fight in Kashmir. http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/04/maryland.arrest/index.html ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
[Assam] Indian SC and Parliament attack - Indian Express
For those of us who have not faith in the Indian Courts and of justice, here is some news that they may want to think twice. The SC, while affirming the death sentence on one of the Jaish terrorist, sets free another. The GOI lost the case against Prof. Geelani, even though there was some strong evidence that he was involved. So, here is at least one case where everything didn't go the way GOI wanted and more importantly the SC probably went against public sentiment. So, it isn't all doom gloom on the Indian justice system:) ___ URL: http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=75708 Friday, August 05, 2005 Front Page SC OKs death for Dec 13 Parliament attack: Shaukat gets 10 yrs, Geelani free but under cloud ANANTHAKRISHNAN G NEW DELHI, AUGUST 4 The Supreme Court today put its stamp of approval on the death sentence awarded to alleged Jaish-e-Mohammed militant Mohammad Afzal by a designated POTA court for his role in the December 13, 2001 attack on Parliament. The court, however, relieved his co-convict, Shaukat Hussain Guru, of the capital punishment and instead sentenced him to 10 years rigorous imprisonment for not alerting the authorities about the conspiracy behind the attack despite having prior knowledge. The apex court also upheld the Delhi High Court order acquitting University lecturer S A R Geelani and Shaukat's wife, Navjot Sandhu alias Afsan Guru, of all charges in connection with the attack, which had left nine policemen dead and 16 others injured. The sheen over Geelani's acquittal was, however, lost in the court's rather caustic observations on his conduct before and after the incident, which it said gave rise to suspicions about his role in the attack. While the order is a setback to the Delhi Police Special Cell, which had been steadfast on its charges against all the accused, the comments about Geelani puts a question mark over the public perception of his innocence. On Afzal, a surrendered militant who could not resist the call of terror, the bench of Justice P P Naolekar and Justice P V Reddi said though there was no direct evidence of conspiracy, the circumstances cumulatively pointed to his collusion. His actions, said the Court, were definitely not innocuous but consistent with his involvement in the conspiracy. Afzal must have had a nexus with the terrorists, who were killed by the brave policemen during the attack, theCourt said, adding that the attack on the citadel of democracy did not have any parallel in the history of the Indian republic. His actions made him a menace to society and the death sentence was the most appropriate for him. The case against Shaukat, also an alleged JeM militant and Afzal's cousin, however failed to stand the Court's test and it absolved him of all the charges levelled by the Special Cell. Though the HC upheld the death sentence imposed on him by the trial court, the SC found that there were ''several gaps'' in the evidence. One of these, it said, was the lack of evidence to show that he was in touch with the slain terrorists. On his conversation with Afzal, the Court said these could best be termed as some talk between cousins. However, his actions show that he was aware of the conspiracy to attack Parliament. The ''illegal omission'' of not informing the police should fetch him 10 years RI and a fine of Rs 25,000. Most interesting were the observations against Geelani in today's judgment. The soft-spoken lecturer, it said, had not hidden his joy over the attack. The Court doubted Geelani's version about his links with Afzal and Shaukat and said his ''conduct was not above board''. Though all these raised suspicion , suspicion alone was not enough to convict a person unless it was backed by legal evidence, the bench added. When asked about the observations, Geelani chose the easy way out, saying he could comment only after seeing the order. If there was anything like that, Geelani said, he would seek legal remedy. Geelani also used the opportunity to harp on the struggle for ''liberating'' Kashmir, which he said was under ''occupation''. Briefing reporters after the verdict, he said all problems would cease once the Kashmir issue was resolved. However, he would not relate the Parliament attack to this struggle and said the ''politicians of India'' had linked the two. On December 18, 2002, designated POTA Judge S N Dhingra had awarded the death penalty to Shaukat, Afzal and Geelani while sentencing Afsan to five years of imprisonment. On appeal, the High Court had upheld the sentence imposed on Afzal and Shaukat, but acquitted Geelani and Afsaan. URL: http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=75708 ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options:
Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA
In my view, any discussion on the separation of Assam from the rest of India, is as queer as a three dollar bill. Nevertheless, the ULFA is allowed to subsidize it's own demise by sticking to the "three dollar bill" demand. Now RIGHT or WRONG, that is a very strong view, and it raises some interesting questions: If ULFA is everywhere in Assam, as claimedby some netters here, RIGHTLY or WRONGLY, then you may be in the very tiny minority, and the 3 dollar bill theory may not be true. In that case, at its worst, it may be a 2 dollar bill theory. If on the other hand,like ULFA itself, you claim, RIGHTLY or WRONGLY,that you represent the majority view in Assam, thenULFA and those who claim, RIGHTLY or WRONGLY, that ULFA is everywhere, may be in fact WRONG, and your 3 Dollar Bill theory may be correct. Question is which view is correct.? May be somebody should, RIGHTLY or WRONGLY, take a survey in Assam. Rajen Barua . - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] A new diktat from ULFA Canada allows thatThat is interesting. I did not know that Canada has a provisio in itsConstitution allowing sedition.--Ram da In a landmark Judgement, delivered by the Supreme Court of Canada in 1998 states, "it is not legal under Canadian Constitution. In fact, no word or a single line exists in the Canadian Constitution on this subject. Hence, no secession is allowed." A short note on the current whereabouts of the ULFA leaders. They must be enjoying expensive junkets offered by Dawood miya. In my view, any discussion on the separation of Assam from the rest of India, is as queer as a three dollar bill. Nevertheless, the ULFA is allowed to subsidize it's own demise by sticking to the "three dollar bill" demand. KJD. ___Assam mailing listAssam@pikespeak.uccs.eduhttp://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assamMailing list FAQ:http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.htmlTo unsubscribe or change options:http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam ___ Assam mailing list Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
