Re: [asterisk-users] asterisk-users Digest, Vol 92, Issue 43

[Ing Jimmi Salcedo]

asterisk-users-requ...@lists.digium.com wrote:

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>Today's Topics:
>
>   1. How to stop ringing when incoming PSTN call is   answered
>  externally? (ft...@mindspring.com)
>   2. Is Asterisk Support RFC-5168 (DHAVAL INDRODIYA)
>   3. Re: Dynamic hint from db? (Roland)
>   4. Asterisk and chat (Matteo Calorio)
>   5. Re: Rate sheet "normalization" (A E [Gmail])
>   6. Re: Rate sheet "normalization" (Alex Balashov)
>   7. Re: Rate sheet "normalization" (C. Savinovich)
>   8. Re: Rate sheet "normalization" (Leandro Dardini)
>   9. Re: Rate sheet "normalization" (C. Savinovich)
>  10. Re: Rate sheet "normalization" (Don Kelly)
>
>
>--
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:27:40 -0400
>From: "ft...@mindspring.com" 
>Subject: [asterisk-users] How to stop ringing when incoming PSTN call
>   is  answered externally?
>To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
>Message-ID: <4f72771c.70...@mindspring.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>This is a hard one to explain.  My home PSTN line is connected via an 
>Openvox A400P card to my Asterisk 1.6.2.23 box which then routes 
>incoming calls to my 2 SCCP extensions.
>
>The calls are routed just fine, but when a call is answered at one of 
>the extensions or externally (by a home telephone) the asterisk 
>extensions continue to ring one more time.  Is there a way to have 
>Asterisk drop an incoming PSTN call as soon as it's answered?
>
>CLI output when receiving a PSTN call:
>  Starting simple switch on 'DAHDI/3-1'
> -- Executing [s@from-pstn-3:1] Wait("DAHDI/3-1", "1") in new stack
> -- Executing [s@from-pstn-3:2] Verbose("DAHDI/3-1", "CALLERID is 
>XX") in new stack
>CALLERID is XX
> -- Executing [s@from-pstn-3:3] Verbose("DAHDI/3-1", "Time is 
>20120327-204307") in new stack
>Time is 20120327-204307
> -- Executing [s@from-pstn-3:4] Dial("DAHDI/3-1", 
>"SCCP/1000&SCCP/1100,30") in new stack
> -- Called 1000
> -- Called 1100
> -- SCCP/1000-0038 is ringing
> -- SCCP/1100-0039 is ringing
>   == Spawn extension (from-pstn-3, s, 4) exited non-zero on 'DAHDI/3-1'
> -- Hungup 'DAHDI/3-1'
>
>
>[from-pstn-3]
>exten => s,1,Wait(1)
>exten => s,n,Verbose(CALLERID is ${CALLERID(num)})
>exten => s,n,Verbose(Time is ${STRFTIME(${EPOCH},,%Y%m%d-%H%M%S)})
>;exten => s,n,Answer
>exten => s,n,Dial(SCCP/1000&SCCP/1100,30)
>exten => s,n,Hangup
>
>
>
>--
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:43:20 +0530
>From: DHAVAL INDRODIYA 
>Subject: [asterisk-users] Is Asterisk Support RFC-5168
>To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
>   
>Message-ID:
>   
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Hi All,
>
>i am working on video setup within asterisk my simple question is asterisk
>support RFC-5168.
>
>if yes then in which version ?
>
>thanks
>Dhaval
>-- next part --
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>
>--
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:19:12 +0200
>From: Roland 
>Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Dynamic hint from db?
>To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
>Message-ID:
>   
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>I'll answer my own question for the archives... although my question maybe
>was just too obvious ;-)
>
>The problem was, that I had put this piece of Dialplan in my
>extensions.conf like this:
>
>[StumpelLocal]
>exten => _ZXX!,hint,${SIP_BYEXT(${EXTEN},${CONTEXT})}
>exten => _ZXX!,1,Verbose(3, Search extension ${EXTEN} in context
>${CONTEXT})
>  same => n,Set(SIP=${SIP_BYEXT(${EXTEN},${CON

Re: [asterisk-users] T.38 troubles

[Jean-Denis Girard]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Steve,

Le 26/03/2012 14:50, Steve Underwood a écrit :
> Spandsp has some workarounds for bugs in Mediatrix boxes. They usually
> work OK.

I just made a couple of tests with spandsp snapshot 20120328: I now get
"The call dropped prematurely". Network capture is attached, hope that
helps.


Thanks,
- -- 
Jean-Denis Girard

SysNux  Systèmes  Linux  en Polynésie française
http://www.sysnux.pf/   Tél: +689 50 10 40 / GSM: +689 79 75 27
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

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fax-ast10-2.pcap.bz2
Description: BZip2 compressed data
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[asterisk-users] Realtime mapping for 'queue_log' found to engine 'odbc', but the engine is not available - why not?

[Phil Frost]

I'm attempting to direct my queue logs at a PostgreSQL table, and seeing this 
error in the asterisk console:

config.c:2256 find_engine: Realtime mapping for 'queue_log' found to engine 
'odbc', but the engine is not available

However, everything I know how to check indicates the odbc engine is available. 
I can't find any more verbose description of the error from Asterisk, so I'm 
unsure how to proceed.

extconfig.conf is simple enough:

> root@asterisk02:/etc/asterisk# cat extconfig.conf
> [settings]
> #include /etc/asterisk/extconfig.conf.d/settings.conf.d/*.conf
> root@asterisk02:/etc/asterisk# cat 
> /etc/asterisk/extconfig.conf.d/settings.conf.d/*.conf
> queue_log => odbc,asterisk,kellyreports.asterisk_queue_log

and res_odbc.conf also pretty simple:

> root@asterisk02:/etc/asterisk# cat res_odbc.conf
> #include /etc/asterisk/res_odbc.conf.d/*.conf
> root@asterisk02:/etc/asterisk# cat /etc/asterisk/res_odbc.conf.d/*.conf
> [asterisk]
> dsn => asterisk
> pre-connect => yes

The underlying ODBC configuration checks out:

> root@asterisk02:/etc/asterisk# isql asterisk
> SQL> insert into kellyreports.asterisk_queue_log default values
> SQLRowCount returns 1

and res_odbc also seems to be aware that "asterisk" is a valid ODBC resource:

> asterisk02*CLI> odbc show 
> ODBC DSN Settings
> -
>   Name:   asterisk
>   DSN:asterisk
> Last connection attempt: 1969-12-31 19:00:00
>   Pooled: No
>   Connected: Yes

I'm not sure what I can infer from the last connection attempt being forever 
ago. Is this the last connection attempt by asterisk to the odbc module? Or the 
ODBC module's last connection attempt to Postgres? I'm confused, because it 
says "Connected: Yes". Also, ODBC is writing a logfile in /tmp:

> root@asterisk02:/tmp# cat psqlodbc_asterisk14211.log
> CONN ERROR: func=PGAPI_SetConnectAttr, desc='', errnum=216, errmsg='Couldn't 
> set unsupported connect attribute 113'
> 
> henv=0x2087430, conn=0x2089780, status=0, num_stmts=16
> sock=0x2084c60, stmts=0x2084d40, lobj_type=-999
>  Socket Info ---
> socket=-1, reverse=0, errornumber=0, errormsg='(NULL)'
> buffer_in=34103648, buffer_out=34108576
> buffer_filled_in=0, buffer_filled_out=0, buffer_read_in=0
> DSN info: 
> DSN='asterisk',server='helpdesk.macprofessionals.lan',port='5432',dbase='whd',user='asterisk',passwd='x'
>   
> onlyread='No',protocol='8.4',showoid='No',fakeoidindex='No',showsystable='No'
>   conn_settings='',conn_encoding='(null)'
>   translation_dll='',translation_option=''
> conn = 0x2089780, PGAPI_Connect(DSN='asterisk', UID='asterisk', PWD='x')
> Driver Version='08.03.0200,200805030001'
> Global Options: fetch=100, socket=4096, unknown_sizes=0, 
> max_varchar_size=255, max_longvarchar_size=8190
> disable_optimizer=1, ksqo=1, unique_index=1, 
> use_declarefetch=0
> text_as_longvarchar=1, unknowns_as_longvarchar=0, 
> bools_as_char=1 NAMEDATALEN=64
> extra_systable_prefixes='dd_;', conn_settings='' 
> conn_encoding=''
> conn=0x2089780, query=' '
> conn=0x2089780, query='select version()'
> [ fetched 1 rows ]
> [ PostgreSQL version string = 'PostgreSQL 8.4.3 on i386-apple-darwin, 
> compiled by GCC i686-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1 (GCC) 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, 
> Inc. build 537' ]
> [ PostgreSQL version number = '8.4' ]
> conn=0x2089780, query='set DateStyle to 'ISO''
> conn=0x2089780, query='set geqo to 'OFF''
> conn=0x2089780, query='set extra_float_digits to 2'
> conn=0x2089780, query='select oid, typbasetype from pg_type where typname = 
> 'lo''
> [ fetched 0 rows ]
> [ Large Object oid = -999 ]
> conn=0x2089780, query='select pg_client_encoding()'
> [ fetched 1 rows ]
> [ Client encoding = 'UTF8' (code = 6) ]
> conn=0x2089780, query='select 1'
> [ fetched 1 rows ]

Not really sure what attribute 113 is or why it couldn't be set, but since I 
see a successful "select 1" at the end, I'm thinking it's benign. Am I missing 
something obvious? Any ideas on where to look next?
-- 
Phil Frost
Macprofessionals
office 248-893-0738
direct 248-662-0809



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Re: [asterisk-users] Official numbering plan - where to get?

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 11:58:45PM +0530, Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) wrote:
> On Friday 23 Mar 2012, Markus wrote:
> > I hope this is not too off-topic. As a kind-of follow up to "rate
> > sheet normalization" I'm still trying to figure out a solution for:
> > throw 10 ratesheets at a program and get the cheapest
> > codes/providers as output.
> > 
> > For this purpose I believe I need a real, detailed, accurate list of
> > all the dialing codes, incl. mobile codes, city codes etc. worldwide
> > as a reference for that particular program. There are thousands of
> > A-Z lists on the web, and there are thousands of codes in them, but
> > nothing is accurate enough or from an official source.
> > 
> > So, I spoke with the ITU today and they, funny enough, too don't have
> > such a list. At least they don't have one that is computer parseable,
> > like a .csv or .xls or something like that. What they have is: a
> > single .doc or .pdf file for EACH country (1 file per country),
> > which is not standardized in its content, with lots of text and
> > descriptions, but it has all the codes. They don't even have such a
> > list as a paid service. Feels like 30 years ago. :)  Anyway, there
> > is numberingplans.com which provide exactly what I'm looking for,
> > but they don't support one-time purchases, only subscriptions from
> > around 100 to 990 EUR per month, which is above my budget (and I
> > don't need a subscription).
> > 
> > Does anyone have an idea where to find such a list for free, or as a
> > one-time purchase? If not, I'll probably go through the effort to
> > compile my own list based on the ITU data. Let me know in case you
> > want a copy then. :)
> 
> Would it help if we start a Wiki for normalised numbering plans for each 
> country, and let people fill in data as and when they please?  Using the 
> appropriate licence would ensure that no one can pull the data and use 
> it in a proprietary list -- a GPL-like licence for the data would ensure 
> that any enhancements to the list also have to be distributed under the 
> same conditions as the original.
> 
> This way the people most benefiting from the list would probably end up 
> doing the most amount of work, which is fair.  I'd be glad to fill in 
> India (if I can figure out that bureaucratic legalese in which the data 
> is written).

IANAL, but I'm not sure if such raw data is copyrightable.
See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openstreetmap#Licensing .
There has been some criticism (not sure how founded) on their now ODbL
that it allows hijacking the database.

-- 
   Tzafrir Cohen
icq#16849755  jabber:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
+972-50-7952406   mailto:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
http://www.xorcom.com  iax:gu...@local.xorcom.com/tzafrir

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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[Alex Balashov]

On 03/28/2012 03:15 PM, Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) wrote:


Times change -- the way to deal with that is to adapt


I don't think you'll get any serious disagreement on that from anyone 
here.


--
Alex Balashov - Principal
Evariste Systems LLC
235 E Ponce de Leon Ave
Suite 106
Atlanta, GA 30030
Tel: +1-678-954-0670
Fax: +1-404-961-1892
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.alexbalashov.com/

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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 10:13:07AM -0700, C. Savinovich wrote:
> >>>If I can't make money off it, I might as well give it for free.

For the benefit of those who did not bother following us: '>>>' stands
for a single level of quoting. The following sentence was:

> > Limiting
> > access to the information has its costs as well.

Back to Savinovich's message:

> 
> That's the problem! You can not make money off anything you write
> because there is an open source version for anything you might want to
> come up with!

Maybe. Or may it is because I (the hypothetical me) focus on selling
something different? If keeping it secret reduces more value than it
adds to my customers, maybe it's not a good idea.

-- 
   Tzafrir Cohen
icq#16849755  jabber:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
+972-50-7952406   mailto:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
http://www.xorcom.com  iax:gu...@local.xorcom.com/tzafrir

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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[Raj Mathur (राज माथुर)]

On Thursday 29 Mar 2012, Alex Balashov wrote:
> Not the best analogy, since it implies that Christian's services are
> legacy and retrograde, while those in India/Arabia/Nigeria/China are
> progressive, state-of-the-art.

The analogy was in two parts, addressing the two parts of the 
gentleman's claims: (a) FOSS is bad for business (because he couldn't 
handle new ways of doing business) and (b) the completely uncalled-for, 
prejudiced and insular rant about "we guys" depriving programmers in his 
country of work.

Times change -- the way to deal with that is to adapt; shoving your head 
into a hole (specially one lower down in your anatomy) and keeping it 
there will only result in the sort of self-pitying whining one is 
seeing.

Fun as this has been, I must now respectfully decline to further clutter 
this list with nonsense and let it get back to the main business of the 
day.  No more from me on this topic.

Regards,

-- Raj
-- 
Raj Mathur  || r...@kandalaya.org   || GPG:
http://otheronepercent.blogspot.com || http://kandalaya.org || CC68
It is the mind that moves   || http://schizoid.in   || D17F

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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[C. Savinovich]

>>>A medieval monk trained in copying books by hand sits in his cell  cursing Gutenberg for inventing the printing press and depriving him of  his livelihood. Again, totally ficticious and absent from reality example.  In real life, the catholic church went ahead and became an extremely rich entity... to this day.>>>he also curses the (Arabs|Nigerians|Indians|Chinese|your choice of whipping boy) "Whipping boy" is an offensive remark that I have never even come close to.  There are many people in this world who are full of hate and discrimination.  Fortunately none of them are in this thread. Stop using the guilt trip and playing the role of being a victim.>>>Would be funny if it weren't so sad.  My sympathies. I agree, thanksChristian SavinovichVoIP & Telephony Consultant646-982-3572 


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
From: "Raj Mathur (राज  माथुर)" 
Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 2:58 pm
To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com

On Wednesday 28 Mar 2012, C. Savinovich wrote:
> Umm, like the amount you paid for your copy of Asterisk and the
> Linux server it runs on? 
> 
> First, you are missing the point.
> 
> Second, you guys take away jobs from American developers.  If there
> was a president in the USA who would make it illegal for companies
> to hire overseas developers, we would have hundreds of thousands of
> people employed here, and don't say that products will be more
> expensive, they wouldn't.  Microsoft and Google have way too much
> money in the bank, which they could share if they didn't hire
> overseas programmers

A medieval monk trained in copying books by hand sits in his cell 
cursing Gutenberg for inventing the printing press and depriving him of 
his livelihood.

Not satisfied with that, he also curses the (Arabs|Nigerians|Indians|
Chinese|your choice of whipping boy) for typesetting cheaper than he can 
and taking business away from him.

Would be funny if it weren't so sad.  My sympathies.

-- Raj
-- 
Raj Mathur  || r...@kandalaya.org   || GPG:
http://otheronepercent.blogspot.com || http://kandalaya.org || CC68
It is the mind that moves   || http://schizoid.in   || D17F

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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[Alex Balashov]

Not the best analogy, since it implies that Christian's services are legacy and 
retrograde, while those in India/Arabia/Nigeria/China are progressive, 
state-of-the-art.  

In general, the opposite tends to be the case.  There are printing presses in 
the US, but Chinese can be paid so little to transcribe books by hand that it 
is actually more economical to pay a large army of them to do just that, 
instead of investing in one typesetting machine.

--
Alex Balashov - Principal 
Evariste Systems LLC 
235 E Ponce de Leon Ave 
Suite 106
Atlanta, GA 30030 
Tel: +1-678-954-0670 
Fax: +1-404-961-1892 
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.alexbalashov.com

"Raj Mathur (राज माथुर)"  wrote:

>On Wednesday 28 Mar 2012, C. Savinovich wrote:
>> Umm, like the amount you paid for your copy of Asterisk and the
>> Linux server it runs on? 
>> 
>> First, you are missing the point.
>> 
>> Second, you guys take away jobs from American developers.  If there
>> was a president in the USA who would make it illegal for companies
>> to hire overseas developers, we would have hundreds of thousands of
>> people employed here, and don't say that products will be more
>> expensive, they wouldn't.  Microsoft and Google have way too much
>> money in the bank, which they could share if they didn't hire
>> overseas programmers
>
>A medieval monk trained in copying books by hand sits in his cell 
>cursing Gutenberg for inventing the printing press and depriving him of 
>his livelihood.
>
>Not satisfied with that, he also curses the (Arabs|Nigerians|Indians|
>Chinese|your choice of whipping boy) for typesetting cheaper than he can 
>and taking business away from him.
>
>Would be funny if it weren't so sad.  My sympathies.
>
>-- Raj
>-- 
>Raj Mathur  || r...@kandalaya.org   || GPG:
>http://otheronepercent.blogspot.com || http://kandalaya.org || CC68
>It is the mind that moves   || http://schizoid.in   || D17F
>
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>   http://www.asterisk.org/hello
>
>asterisk-users mailing list
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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[Raj Mathur (राज माथुर)]

On Wednesday 28 Mar 2012, C. Savinovich wrote:
> Umm, like the amount you paid for your copy of Asterisk and the
> Linux server it runs on? 
> 
> First, you are missing the point.
> 
> Second, you guys take away jobs from American developers.  If there
> was a president in the USA who would make it illegal for companies
> to hire overseas developers, we would have hundreds of thousands of
> people employed here, and don't say that products will be more
> expensive, they wouldn't.  Microsoft and Google have way too much
> money in the bank, which they could share if they didn't hire
> overseas programmers

A medieval monk trained in copying books by hand sits in his cell 
cursing Gutenberg for inventing the printing press and depriving him of 
his livelihood.

Not satisfied with that, he also curses the (Arabs|Nigerians|Indians|
Chinese|your choice of whipping boy) for typesetting cheaper than he can 
and taking business away from him.

Would be funny if it weren't so sad.  My sympathies.

-- Raj
-- 
Raj Mathur  || r...@kandalaya.org   || GPG:
http://otheronepercent.blogspot.com || http://kandalaya.org || CC68
It is the mind that moves   || http://schizoid.in   || D17F

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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[C. Savinovich]

>>>Microsoft and google will have no money if they dont hire overseas. Think of paying to google for every search.    That is false. A total misconception of reality. In addition, this is the second time I repeat myself. there it goes again for you: Microsoft and Google have so much money, that they only hire overseas because they are greedy.>>>Think what will be happen if India and China blocking google and facebook, Microsoft. Nothing will happen. They would just not have those markets. They would still be Google and Facebook.>>>Dont live with hate :).  No hate intended at all. This is only business.Christian SavinovichVoIP & Telephony Consultant646-982-3572 


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
From: Jai Rangi 
Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 2:37 pm
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion

Cc: r...@linux-delhi.org

Haha, Globalization my dear. Learn to deal with. Dont live with hate :). Second, Microsoft and google will have no money if they dont hire overseas. Think of paying to google for every search. Jobs going overseas have taken some jobs but also have opened lots of opportunity. Think what will be happen if India and China blocking google and facebook, Microsoft.  -Jai On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 11:25 AM, C. Savinovich  wrote: Umm, like the amount you paid for your copy of Asterisk and the Linux  server it runs on?  First, you are missing the point.Second, you guys take away jobs from American developers.  If there was a president in the USA who would make it illegal for companies to hire overseas developers, we would have hundreds of thousands of people employed here, and don't say that products will be more expensive, they wouldn't.  Microsoft and Google have way too much money in the bank, which they could share if they didn't hire overseas programmers Christian SavinovichVoIP & Telephony Consultant646-982-3572      Original Message  Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization" From: "Raj Mathur (राज माथुर)"  Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 2:13 pm To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com  On Wednesday 28 Mar 2012, C. Savinovich wrote: > I really don't think it is fair for anyone to give out such work for > free. Unfortunately, many people are used to asking for free > software solutions for all their problems. Whatever happened to > paying for someone else's time and effort?  Umm, like the amount you paid for your copy of Asterisk and the Linux  server it runs on?  -- Raj --  Raj Mathur || r...@kandalaya.org || GPG: http://otheronepercent.blogspot.com || http://kandalaya.org || CC68 It is the mind that moves || http://schizoid.in || D17F  -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs: http://www.asterisk.org/hello  asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users   -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:               http://www.asterisk.org/hello  asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users --
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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[Alex Balashov]

I sympathise, as a fellow "American" developer.  However, it is rather 
childlike wishful thinking to purport to stop by force of law that natural 
motion of capital which is certifiably unstoppable.   

Global economic integration and interdependence ("globalisation") has its 
pluses and minuses for everyone.  To partake of the benefits of modernity, you 
have to pay to play.  You can't have the good without the bad.  Developing 
nations have every bit as many gripes with it as you do. While you complain 
that jobs are being taken away from American developers and there is downward 
wage pressure, the developing world complains of their macroeconomic health 
being subjugated to the whims of some distant investors in faraway lands, there 
self-sufficiency destroyed by supposedly organic "competitive advantage", 
IMF-sponsored liberalisation and austerity measures that hurt the people and 
increase concentration of wealth into few hands, expropriation of land and 
resources into the hands of foreign conglomerates, etc.  It is what it is.

Regardless, there is no going back.  It's like trying to put the milk back into 
the cow.  All you can do is make yourself competitive in global terms.  There 
is still much that you can do that cannot be usefully offshored.

--
Alex Balashov - Principal 
Evariste Systems LLC 
235 E Ponce de Leon Ave 
Suite 106
Atlanta, GA 30030 
Tel: +1-678-954-0670 
Fax: +1-404-961-1892 
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.alexbalashov.com

"C. Savinovich"  wrote:

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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[Jai Rangi]

Haha, Globalization my dear. Learn to deal with. Dont live with hate :).
Second,
Microsoft and google will have no money if they dont hire overseas. Think
of paying to google for every search. Jobs going overseas have taken some
jobs but also have opened lots of opportunity. Think what will be happen if
India and China blocking google and facebook, Microsoft.


-Jai

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 11:25 AM, C. Savinovich  wrote:

> Umm, like the amount you paid for your copy of Asterisk and the Linux
> server it runs on?
>
> First, you are missing the point.
>
> Second, you guys take away jobs from American developers.  If there was a
> president in the USA who would make it illegal for companies to hire
> overseas developers, we would have hundreds of thousands of people employed
> here, and don't say that products will be more expensive, they wouldn't.
> Microsoft and Google have way too much money in the bank, which they could
> share if they didn't hire overseas programmers
>
>
> Christian Savinovich
> *VoIP & Telephony Consultant*
> 646-982-3572
>
>
>
>   Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
> From: "Raj Mathur (राज माथुर)" 
> Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 2:13 pm
> To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
>
>
> On Wednesday 28 Mar 2012, C. Savinovich wrote:
> > I really don't think it is fair for anyone to give out such work for
> > free. Unfortunately, many people are used to asking for free
> > software solutions for all their problems. Whatever happened to
> > paying for someone else's time and effort?
>
> Umm, like the amount you paid for your copy of Asterisk and the Linux
> server it runs on?
>
> -- Raj
> --
> Raj Mathur || r...@kandalaya.org || GPG:
> http://otheronepercent.blogspot.com || http://kandalaya.org || CC68
> It is the mind that moves || http://schizoid.in || D17F
>
> --
> _
> -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
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> http://www.asterisk.org/hello
>
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> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
>
>
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>
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Re: [asterisk-users] Official numbering plan - where to get?

[Raj Mathur (राज माथुर)]

On Friday 23 Mar 2012, Markus wrote:
> I hope this is not too off-topic. As a kind-of follow up to "rate
> sheet normalization" I'm still trying to figure out a solution for:
> throw 10 ratesheets at a program and get the cheapest
> codes/providers as output.
> 
> For this purpose I believe I need a real, detailed, accurate list of
> all the dialing codes, incl. mobile codes, city codes etc. worldwide
> as a reference for that particular program. There are thousands of
> A-Z lists on the web, and there are thousands of codes in them, but
> nothing is accurate enough or from an official source.
> 
> So, I spoke with the ITU today and they, funny enough, too don't have
> such a list. At least they don't have one that is computer parseable,
> like a .csv or .xls or something like that. What they have is: a
> single .doc or .pdf file for EACH country (1 file per country),
> which is not standardized in its content, with lots of text and
> descriptions, but it has all the codes. They don't even have such a
> list as a paid service. Feels like 30 years ago. :)  Anyway, there
> is numberingplans.com which provide exactly what I'm looking for,
> but they don't support one-time purchases, only subscriptions from
> around 100 to 990 EUR per month, which is above my budget (and I
> don't need a subscription).
> 
> Does anyone have an idea where to find such a list for free, or as a
> one-time purchase? If not, I'll probably go through the effort to
> compile my own list based on the ITU data. Let me know in case you
> want a copy then. :)

Would it help if we start a Wiki for normalised numbering plans for each 
country, and let people fill in data as and when they please?  Using the 
appropriate licence would ensure that no one can pull the data and use 
it in a proprietary list -- a GPL-like licence for the data would ensure 
that any enhancements to the list also have to be distributed under the 
same conditions as the original.

This way the people most benefiting from the list would probably end up 
doing the most amount of work, which is fair.  I'd be glad to fill in 
India (if I can figure out that bureaucratic legalese in which the data 
is written).

Regards,

-- Raj
-- 
Raj Mathur  || r...@kandalaya.org   || GPG:
http://otheronepercent.blogspot.com || http://kandalaya.org || CC68
It is the mind that moves   || http://schizoid.in   || D17F

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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[Jai Rangi]

It is just way you represent your self and what kind of customer you get. I
have seen customers who buy DIDs from us for calling card have paid upto
10K for installing asterisk and a2billing and they are very happy that
there is no limitations on number of calls as per licensing.


-Jai Rangi
www.didforsale.com
"Leader in SIP Trunking"

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Danny Nicholas  wrote:

> They would rather pay you $1500 to fix the a2billing install that fellow X
> charged them $500 for.   It isn’t “right”, that’s just the way it is.
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com [mailto:
> asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] *On Behalf Of *C. Savinovich
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:17 PM
>
> *To:* Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> >>>The "Way to make money" is to help folks use the "open source" items
> in the most efficient manner
>
> ** **
>
> Nobody wants to pay me $2,000 to install and configure A2billing, which in
> my view, is a fairly low  price for my time.  There are people who do that
> for less than $500.  I do know the tricks and formulas of how to make money
> in calling cards, but go tell the customer, they don't care.  I don't care
> either, I am very busy in my consulting business, but it is unfortunate
> that the better income source for developers just doesn't exist anymore.  I
> would make much more money if A2billing weren't open source and I would
> selling copies of my own version of A2billing, probably even developing a
> better product, definitely with the request that initiated this thread
> included ;)
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Christian Savinovich
>
> *VoIP & Telephony Consultant*
>
> 646-982-3572
>
>  
>
> ** **
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
> From: "Danny Nicholas" 
> Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 1:41 pm
> To: "'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'"
> 
>
> The “Way to make money” is to help folks use the “open source” items in
> the most efficient manner and to provide “extra value” along the way.  Just
> because you can download Asterisk for “free” doesn’t make it worthless or
> valuable; it’s what you can do to it (or can’t) that makes it that way.***
> *
>
>  
>
> *From:* 
> *asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com*[
> *mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com*]
> *On Behalf Of *Don Kelly
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:25 PM
> *To:* 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
> *Subject:* Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
>
>  
>
> Christian, your signature says you’re a “VoIP and Telephony Consultant.”
> That implies that your clients pay you for the value you add personally
> providing services to them. Open source software doesn’t download itself
> and configure itself appropriately all by itself—there are lots of people
> needing your assistance.
>
> --Don
>
>  
>
> *From:* 
> *asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com*
> *[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com]*<[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com]>
> *On Behalf Of *C. Savinovich
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:13 PM
> *To:* Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
>
>  
>
>  
>
> >>>If I can't make money off it, I might as well give it for free.
>
>  
>
> That's the problem! You can not make money off anything you write because
> there is an open source version for anything you might want to come up with!
> 
>
>  
>
> Do we all have to have Mark Zuckerberg's genious to make it in this
> market?... what about an opportunity for the rest of us, normal developers?
> 
>
>  
>
> Christian Savinovich
>
> *VoIP & Telephony Consultant*
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
> From: Tzafrir Cohen <*tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com* 
> >
> Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 12:57 pm
> To: *asterisk-users@lists.digium.com* 
>
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 07:27:03AM -0700, C. Savinovich wrote:
> > I really don't think it is fair for anyone to give out such work for
> > free. Unfortunately, many people are used to asking for free software
> > solutions for all their problems. Whatever happened to paying for
> > someone else's time and effort?
>
> If I can't make money off it, I might as well give it for free. Limiting
> access to the information has its costs as well. If the information is
> publiclly available, I may actually get some good publicity and some
> improvements from others. Not much. But then again it's better than the
> 0 money I would have gotten in the hypothetical case.
>
> If you can make money off of it, then sure, go ahead.
>
> --
> Tzafrir Cohen
> icq#16849755 jabber:*tzafrir.co...@xorcom

Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[C. Savinovich]

Umm, like the amount you paid for your copy of Asterisk and the Linux  server it runs on? First, you are missing the point.Second, you guys take away jobs from American developers.  If there was a president in the USA who would make it illegal for companies to hire overseas developers, we would have hundreds of thousands of people employed here, and don't say that products will be more expensive, they wouldn't.  Microsoft and Google have way too much money in the bank, which they could share if they didn't hire overseas programmersChristian SavinovichVoIP & Telephony Consultant646-982-3572 


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
From: "Raj Mathur (राज  माथुर)" 
Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 2:13 pm
To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com

On Wednesday 28 Mar 2012, C. Savinovich wrote:
> I really don't think it is fair for anyone to give out such work for
> free.  Unfortunately, many people are used to asking for free
> software solutions for all their problems.  Whatever happened to
> paying for someone else's time and effort?

Umm, like the amount you paid for your copy of Asterisk and the Linux 
server it runs on?

-- Raj
-- 
Raj Mathur  || r...@kandalaya.org   || GPG:
http://otheronepercent.blogspot.com || http://kandalaya.org || CC68
It is the mind that moves   || http://schizoid.in   || D17F

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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[Danny Nicholas]

They would rather pay you $1500 to fix the a2billing install that fellow X 
charged them $500 for.   It isn’t “right”, that’s just the way it is.

 

From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com 
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of C. Savinovich
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:17 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

 

 

>>>The "Way to make money" is to help folks use the "open source" items in the 
>>>most efficient manner

 

Nobody wants to pay me $2,000 to install and configure A2billing, which in my 
view, is a fairly low  price for my time.  There are people who do that for 
less than $500.  I do know the tricks and formulas of how to make money in 
calling cards, but go tell the customer, they don't care.  I don't care either, 
I am very busy in my consulting business, but it is unfortunate that the better 
income source for developers just doesn't exist anymore.  I would make much 
more money if A2billing weren't open source and I would selling copies of my 
own version of A2billing, probably even developing a better product, definitely 
with the request that initiated this thread included ;)

 

 

Christian Savinovich

VoIP & Telephony Consultant

646-982-3572

 

 

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
From: "Danny Nicholas" <  da...@debsinc.com>
Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 1:41 pm
To: "'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'"
<  asterisk-users@lists.digium.com>

The “Way to make money” is to help folks use the “open source” items in the 
most efficient manner and to provide “extra value” along the way.  Just because 
you can download Asterisk for “free” doesn’t make it worthless or valuable; 
it’s what you can do to it (or can’t) that makes it that way.

 

From:   
asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com [ 
 
mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Don Kelly
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:25 PM
To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

 

Christian, your signature says you’re a “VoIP and Telephony Consultant.” That 
implies that your clients pay you for the value you add personally providing 
services to them. Open source software doesn’t download itself and configure 
itself appropriately all by itself—there are lots of people needing your 
assistance.

--Don

 

From:   
asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com  
 
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of C. Savinovich
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:13 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

 

 

>>>If I can't make money off it, I might as well give it for free.

 

That's the problem! You can not make money off anything you write because there 
is an open source version for anything you might want to come up with!

 

Do we all have to have Mark Zuckerberg's genious to make it in this market?... 
what about an opportunity for the rest of us, normal developers?

 

Christian Savinovich

VoIP & Telephony Consultant

 

 

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
From: Tzafrir Cohen <  
tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com>
Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 12:57 pm
To:   asterisk-users@lists.digium.com

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 07:27:03AM -0700, C. Savinovich wrote:
> I really don't think it is fair for anyone to give out such work for
> free. Unfortunately, many people are used to asking for free software
> solutions for all their problems. Whatever happened to paying for
> someone else's time and effort?

If I can't make money off it, I might as well give it for free. Limiting
access to the information has its costs as well. If the information is
publiclly available, I may actually get some good publicity and some
improvements from others. Not much. But then again it's better than the
0 money I would have gotten in the hypothetical case.

If you can make money off of it, then sure, go ahead.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen
icq#16849755 jabber:  tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
+972-50-7952406   
mailto:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
  http://www.xorcom.com iax: 
 gu...@local.xorcom.com/tzafrir

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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[C. Savinovich]

>>>The "Way to make money" is to help folks use the "open source" items in the most efficient mannerNobody wants to pay me $2,000 to install and configure A2billing, which in my view, is a fairly low  price for my time.  There are people who do that for less than $500.  I do know the tricks and formulas of how to make money in calling cards, but go tell the customer, they don't care.  I don't care either, I am very busy in my consulting business, but it is unfortunate that the better income source for developers just doesn't exist anymore.  I would make much more money if A2billing weren't open source and I would selling copies of my own version of A2billing, probably even developing a better product, definitely with the request that initiated this thread included ;)Christian SavinovichVoIP & Telephony Consultant646-982-3572 


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
From: "Danny Nicholas" 
Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 1:41 pm
To: "'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'"


The “Way to make money” is to help folks use the “open source” items in the most efficient manner and to provide “extra value” along the way.  Just because you can download Asterisk for “free” doesn’t make it worthless or valuable; it’s what you can do to it (or can’t) that makes it that way. From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Don KellySent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:25 PMTo: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization" Christian, your signature says you’re a “VoIP and Telephony Consultant.” That implies that your clients pay you for the value you add personally providing services to them. Open source software doesn’t download itself and configure itself appropriately all by itself—there are lots of people needing your assistance.--Don From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of C. SavinovichSent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:13 PMTo: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial DiscussionSubject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"  >>>If I can't make money off it, I might as well give it for free. That's the problem! You can not make money off anything you write because there is an open source version for anything you might want to come up with! Do we all have to have Mark Zuckerberg's genious to make it in this market?... what about an opportunity for the rest of us, normal developers? Christian SavinovichVoIP & Telephony Consultant   Original Message Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"From: Tzafrir Cohen Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 12:57 pmTo: asterisk-users@lists.digium.comOn Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 07:27:03AM -0700, C. Savinovich wrote:> I really don't think it is fair for anyone to give out such work for> free. Unfortunately, many people are used to asking for free software> solutions for all their problems. Whatever happened to paying for> someone else's time and effort?If I can't make money off it, I might as well give it for free. Limitingaccess to the information has its costs as well. If the information ispubliclly available, I may actually get some good publicity and someimprovements from others. Not much. But then again it's better than the0 money I would have gotten in the hypothetical case.If you can make money off of it, then sure, go ahead.-- Tzafrir Cohenicq#16849755 jabber:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com+972-50-7952406 mailto:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.comhttp://www.xorcom.com iax:gu...@local.xorcom.com/tzafrir--_-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:http://www.asterisk.org/helloasterisk-users mailing listTo UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users--
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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[Raj Mathur (राज माथुर)]

On Wednesday 28 Mar 2012, C. Savinovich wrote:
> I really don't think it is fair for anyone to give out such work for
> free.  Unfortunately, many people are used to asking for free
> software solutions for all their problems.  Whatever happened to
> paying for someone else's time and effort?

Umm, like the amount you paid for your copy of Asterisk and the Linux 
server it runs on?

-- Raj
-- 
Raj Mathur  || r...@kandalaya.org   || GPG:
http://otheronepercent.blogspot.com || http://kandalaya.org || CC68
It is the mind that moves   || http://schizoid.in   || D17F

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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[Danny Nicholas]

The “Way to make money” is to help folks use the “open source” items in the 
most efficient manner and to provide “extra value” along the way.  Just because 
you can download Asterisk for “free” doesn’t make it worthless or valuable; 
it’s what you can do to it (or can’t) that makes it that way.

 

From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com 
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Don Kelly
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:25 PM
To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

 

Christian, your signature says you’re a “VoIP and Telephony Consultant.” That 
implies that your clients pay you for the value you add personally providing 
services to them. Open source software doesn’t download itself and configure 
itself appropriately all by itself—there are lots of people needing your 
assistance.

--Don

 

From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com 
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of C. Savinovich
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:13 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

 

 

>>>If I can't make money off it, I might as well give it for free.

 

That's the problem! You can not make money off anything you write because there 
is an open source version for anything you might want to come up with!

 

Do we all have to have Mark Zuckerberg's genious to make it in this market?... 
what about an opportunity for the rest of us, normal developers?

 

Christian Savinovich

VoIP & Telephony Consultant

 

 

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
From: Tzafrir Cohen 
Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 12:57 pm
To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 07:27:03AM -0700, C. Savinovich wrote:
> I really don't think it is fair for anyone to give out such work for
> free. Unfortunately, many people are used to asking for free software
> solutions for all their problems. Whatever happened to paying for
> someone else's time and effort?

If I can't make money off it, I might as well give it for free. Limiting
access to the information has its costs as well. If the information is
publiclly available, I may actually get some good publicity and some
improvements from others. Not much. But then again it's better than the
0 money I would have gotten in the hypothetical case.

If you can make money off of it, then sure, go ahead.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen
icq#16849755 jabber:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
+972-50-7952406 mailto:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
http://www.xorcom.com iax:gu...@local.xorcom.com/tzafrir

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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[Don Kelly]

Christian, your signature says you’re a “VoIP and Telephony Consultant.” That 
implies that your clients pay you for the value you add personally providing 
services to them. Open source software doesn’t download itself and configure 
itself appropriately all by itself—there are lots of people needing your 
assistance.

--Don

From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com 
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of C. Savinovich
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:13 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

 

 

>>>If I can't make money off it, I might as well give it for free.

 

That's the problem! You can not make money off anything you write because there 
is an open source version for anything you might want to come up with!

 

Do we all have to have Mark Zuckerberg's genious to make it in this market?... 
what about an opportunity for the rest of us, normal developers?

 

Christian Savinovich

VoIP & Telephony Consultant

 

 

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
From: Tzafrir Cohen 
Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 12:57 pm
To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 07:27:03AM -0700, C. Savinovich wrote:
> I really don't think it is fair for anyone to give out such work for
> free. Unfortunately, many people are used to asking for free software
> solutions for all their problems. Whatever happened to paying for
> someone else's time and effort?

If I can't make money off it, I might as well give it for free. Limiting
access to the information has its costs as well. If the information is
publiclly available, I may actually get some good publicity and some
improvements from others. Not much. But then again it's better than the
0 money I would have gotten in the hypothetical case.

If you can make money off of it, then sure, go ahead.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen
icq#16849755 jabber:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
+972-50-7952406 mailto:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
http://www.xorcom.com iax:gu...@local.xorcom.com/tzafrir

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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[C. Savinovich]

>>>If I can't make money off it, I might as well give it for free.That's the problem! You can not make money off anything you write because there is an open source version for anything you might want to come up with!Do we all have to have Mark Zuckerberg's genious to make it in this market?... what about an opportunity for the rest of us, normal developers?Christian SavinovichVoIP & Telephony Consultant 


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
From: Tzafrir Cohen 
Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 12:57 pm
To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 07:27:03AM -0700, C. Savinovich wrote:
>I really don't think it is fair for anyone to give out such work for
>free.  Unfortunately, many people are used to asking for free software
>solutions for all their problems.  Whatever happened to paying for
>someone else's time and effort?

If I can't make money off it, I might as well give it for free. Limiting
access to the information has its costs as well. If the information is
publiclly available, I may actually get some good publicity and some
improvements from others. Not much. But then again it's better than the
0 money I would have gotten in the hypothetical case.

If you can make money off of it, then sure, go ahead.

-- 
   Tzafrir Cohen
icq#16849755  jabber:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
+972-50-7952406   mailto:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
http://www.xorcom.com  iax:gu...@local.xorcom.com/tzafrir

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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 07:27:03AM -0700, C. Savinovich wrote:
>I really don't think it is fair for anyone to give out such work for
>free.  Unfortunately, many people are used to asking for free software
>solutions for all their problems.  Whatever happened to paying for
>someone else's time and effort?

If I can't make money off it, I might as well give it for free. Limiting
access to the information has its costs as well. If the information is
publiclly available, I may actually get some good publicity and some
improvements from others. Not much. But then again it's better than the
0 money I would have gotten in the hypothetical case.

If you can make money off of it, then sure, go ahead.

-- 
   Tzafrir Cohen
icq#16849755  jabber:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
+972-50-7952406   mailto:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
http://www.xorcom.com  iax:gu...@local.xorcom.com/tzafrir

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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[Don Kelly]

Adding to the top-posted discussion of doing this for free…

 

A one-time rate sheet is of no value. This is something that would need 
constant updating.

 

Think about the open source projects that provided something useful and were 
improved by the community for a couple years, then became static—continuing to 
do what they did, but not receiving any more support from the community. They 
may continue to be of value, even though they don’t improve.

 

If the same thing happened with the rate sheet, it would quickly become not 
only valueless, but dangerous to rely on—and there would likely be no free 
replacement to enable you to stay in business.

--Don

Don Kelly

PCF Corp
People Come First
651 842-1000
651 842-1001 fax

From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com 
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of C. Savinovich
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 10:58 AM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

 

 

Sure someone will benefit from it. But what about all those others who are 
financially affected by it? I certainly do not think that someone necessarily 
always contributes. It ultimately affects our economy, because money doesn't 
circulate, and many people who are in a perfect position to disburse money just 
don't do it.  It affects an entire industry (the software industry) that could 
flourish and create even better products thanks to a competition that could 
exists if there were financial rewards.  Ultimately, free software (not open 
source) affects the little guy and benefits the big guys.  Gone are the days 
when a talented programmer could create a program and make a million dollars 
from his basement with his talent. If your company name is not Google, if you 
don't do a tap and a dance to an investor, then you got no chance, as opposed 
to the days when you could just sell your own version of Vicidial and make 
money for a year.

 

But rather than discussing about the pros and cons of open source, which is 
here to stay, I would think that some people are doomed to fail if they think 
they can run a business entirely on free rides.  The goal of Open Source is to 
benefit from sharing and share ahead, but unfortunately a segment of the market 
has gotten to the point that it only takes but doesn't give back.

 

Christian Savinovich

VoIP & Telephony Consultant

646-982-3572

 

 

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
From: Leandro Dardini 
Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 10:38 am
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion


Continuing with the top post...

 

I believe in open source philosophy. A software or a list of telephone prefix 
makes no difference. If you want to make such list open source, you'll be sure 
somebody will contribute to maintain it update and all will benefit from it.

 

Leandro

2012/3/28 C. Savinovich 

 

I really don't think it is fair for anyone to give out such work for free.  
Unfortunately, many people are used to asking for free software solutions for 
all their problems.  Whatever happened to paying for someone else's time and 
effort?

 

 

Christian Savinovich

VoIP & Telephony Consultant

 

 

 

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
From: Alex Balashov 
Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 10:00 am
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion 


We solve this problem for our customers all the time, in various 
situationally-specific ways. But yes, we are not really in a position to 
genericise it and give it away. It's not because we are greedy. The time and 
resources just aren't there.

--
Alex Balashov - Principal 
Evariste Systems LLC 
235 E Ponce de Leon Ave 
Suite 106
Atlanta, GA 30030 
Tel: +1-678-954-0670   
Fax: +1-404-961-1892   
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.alexbalashov.com

"A E [Gmail]"  wrote:

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Markus  wrote:

Hi,

this question is not Asterisk specific, but since there are so many experts 
present on this list, maybe its OK to ask anyways.

I'm having a hard time "normalizing" rate sheets from different providers. What 
I mean with this: the goal is to always get the cheapest rate for a given 
destination. What I would like to do is throw like 10 rate sheets from 
different providers together and as output get a single rate sheet with only 
the cheapest rates. However, some providers are listing a country, lets say 
Germany, as code "49" with a specific rate, and another provider will list each 
city individually, and each code separately, e.g. Berlin "4930", Hamburg "4940" 
etc., and probably different cities have different rates as well. Now, if the 
"49" route of the first provider is cheaper, my system (a2billing) will still 
use the more expensive "4930" code because it is more specific.

I'm looking for some awesome, smart tool that will automatically "no

Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[C. Savinovich]

Sure someone will benefit from it. But what about all those others who are financially affected by it? I certainly do not think that someone necessarily always contributes. It ultimately affects our economy, because money doesn't circulate, and many people who are in a perfect position to disburse money just don't do it.  It affects an entire industry (the software industry) that could flourish and create even better products thanks to a competition that could exists if there were financial rewards.  Ultimately, free software (not open source) affects the little guy and benefits the big guys.  Gone are the days when a talented programmer could create a program and make a million dollars from his basement with his talent. If your company name is not Google, if you don't do a tap and a dance to an investor, then you got no chance, as opposed to the days when you could just sell your own version of Vicidial and make money for a year. But rather than discussing about the pros and cons of open source, which is here to stay, I would think that some people are doomed to fail if they think they can run a business entirely on free rides.  The goal of Open Source is to benefit from sharing and share ahead, but unfortunately a segment of the market has gotten to the point that it only takes but doesn't give back.Christian SavinovichVoIP & Telephony Consultant646-982-3572 


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
From: Leandro Dardini 
Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 10:38 am
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion


Continuing with the top post...I believe in open source philosophy. A software or a list of telephone prefix makes no difference. If you want to make such list open source, you'll be sure somebody will contribute to maintain it update and all will benefit from it. Leandro2012/3/28 C. Savinovich  I really don't think it is fair for anyone to give out such work for free.  Unfortunately, many people are used to asking for free software solutions for all their problems.  Whatever happened to paying for someone else's time and effort? Christian SavinovichVoIP & Telephony Consultant     Original Message  Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization" From: Alex Balashov  Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 10:00 am To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion    We solve this problem for our customers all the time, in various situationally-specific ways. But yes, we are not really in a position to genericise it and give it away. It's not because we are greedy. The time and resources just aren't there. --Alex Balashov - Principal Evariste Systems LLC 235 E Ponce de Leon Ave Suite 106Atlanta, GA 30030 Tel: +1-678-954-0670  Fax: +1-404-961-1892 Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.alexbalashov.com "A E [Gmail]"  wrote:On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Markus  wrote:  Hi,  this question is not Asterisk specific, but since there are so many experts present on this list, maybe its OK to ask anyways.  I'm having a hard time "normalizing" rate sheets from different providers. What I mean with this: the goal is to always get the cheapest rate for a given destination. What I would like to do is throw like 10 rate sheets from different providers together and as output get a single rate sheet with only the cheapest rates. However, some providers are listing a country, lets say Germany, as code "49" with a specific rate, and another provider will list each city individually, and each code separately, e.g. Berlin "4930", Hamburg "4940" etc., and probably different cities have different rates as well. Now, if the "49" route of the first provider is cheaper, my system (a2billing) will still use the more expensive "4930" code because it is more specific.  I'm looking for some awesome, smart tool that will automatically "normalize" all these code differences and output a clean ratesheet with only the cheapest rates.  Does such a thing exist? I wonder how everyone else is "normalizing" their different rate sheets. With a homebrewn script?  Thanks! Markus,you're not the first person and certainly not the last person who's ever asked about this. I had tried this on several mailing lists a little while ago.  A tool that could handle 10 or maybe even 5 provider rate-sheets all of which can potentially completely differ in formats from each other. Even worse are the rate update sheets from each provider which are many a times different from the initial rate sheets that the provider may have given you and then again they will differ from the rate updates from the remaining 4 providers you've just painstakingly inserted into your DB. Given the popularity of Asterisk and other popular OSS based telephony platforms with several successful businesses 

Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[Leandro Dardini]

Continuing with the top post...

I believe in open source philosophy. A software or a list of telephone
prefix makes no difference. If you want to make such list open source,
you'll be sure somebody will contribute to maintain it update and all will
benefit from it.

Leandro

2012/3/28 C. Savinovich 

>
> I really don't think it is fair for anyone to give out such work for
> free.  Unfortunately, many people are used to asking for free software
> solutions for all their problems.  Whatever happened to paying for someone
> else's time and effort?
>
>
> Christian Savinovich
> *VoIP & Telephony Consultant*
>
>
>
>
>   Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
> From: Alex Balashov 
> Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 10:00 am
> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> 
>
> We solve this problem for our customers all the time, in various
> situationally-specific ways. But yes, we are not really in a position to
> genericise it and give it away. It's not because we are greedy. The time
> and resources just aren't there.
>
> --
> Alex Balashov - Principal
> Evariste Systems LLC
> 235 E Ponce de Leon Ave
> Suite 106
> Atlanta, GA 30030
> Tel: +1-678-954-0670
> Fax: +1-404-961-1892
> Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.alexbalashov.com
>
> "A E [Gmail]"  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Markus  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> this question is not Asterisk specific, but since there are so many
>> experts present on this list, maybe its OK to ask anyways.
>>
>> I'm having a hard time "normalizing" rate sheets from different
>> providers. What I mean with this: the goal is to always get the cheapest
>> rate for a given destination. What I would like to do is throw like 10 rate
>> sheets from different providers together and as output get a single rate
>> sheet with only the cheapest rates. However, some providers are listing a
>> country, lets say Germany, as code "49" with a specific rate, and another
>> provider will list each city individually, and each code separately, e.g.
>> Berlin "4930", Hamburg "4940" etc., and probably different cities have
>> different rates as well. Now, if the "49" route of the first provider is
>> cheaper, my system (a2billing) will still use the more expensive "4930"
>> code because it is more specific.
>>
>> I'm looking for some awesome, smart tool that will automatically
>> "normalize" all these code differences and output a clean ratesheet with
>> only the cheapest rates.
>>
>> Does such a thing exist? I wonder how everyone else is "normalizing"
>> their different rate sheets. With a homebrewn script?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
> Markus,
>
> you're not the first person and certainly not the last person who's ever
> asked about this. I had tried this on several mailing lists a little while
> ago.  A tool that could handle 10 or maybe even 5 provider rate-sheets all
> of which can potentially completely differ in formats from each other. Even
> worse are the rate update sheets from each provider which are many a times
> different from the initial rate sheets that the provider may have given you
> and then again they will differ from the rate updates from the remaining 4
> providers you've just painstakingly inserted into your DB.
>
> Given the popularity of Asterisk and other popular OSS based telephony
> platforms with several successful businesses running 100s of millions of
> minutes, you'd think at least a few have sorted this problem out. But I
> believe those who have, never respond to these emails as it took them quite
> a bit of effort to create such a tool and aren't willing to just give it
> away.
>
> Just what I have observed (and was even blatantly told by someone on some
> mailing list, can't remember exactly)
>
> You may have to advertise in the commercial / business list or offer a
> bounty. There are several commercial solutions available but I think they
> all come as a "feature" of a larger billing/rating/routing platform
>
> --
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> http://www.asterisk.org/hello
>
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>
>
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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[C. Savinovich]

I really don't think it is fair for anyone to give out such work for free.  Unfortunately, many people are used to asking for free software solutions for all their problems.  Whatever happened to paying for someone else's time and effort?Christian SavinovichVoIP & Telephony Consultant 


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"
From: Alex Balashov 
Date: Wed, March 28, 2012 10:00 am
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion	


We solve this problem for our customers all the time, in various situationally-specific ways. But yes, we are not really in a position to genericise it and give it away. It's not because we are greedy. The time and resources just aren't there.--Alex Balashov - Principal Evariste Systems LLC 235 E Ponce de Leon Ave Suite 106Atlanta, GA 30030 Tel: +1-678-954-0670 Fax: +1-404-961-1892 Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.alexbalashov.com"A E [Gmail]"  wrote:On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Markus  wrote: Hi,  this question is not Asterisk specific, but since there are so many experts present on this list, maybe its OK to ask anyways.  I'm having a hard time "normalizing" rate sheets from different providers. What I mean with this: the goal is to always get the cheapest rate for a given destination. What I would like to do is throw like 10 rate sheets from different providers together and as output get a single rate sheet with only the cheapest rates. However, some providers are listing a country, lets say Germany, as code "49" with a specific rate, and another provider will list each city individually, and each code separately, e.g. Berlin "4930", Hamburg "4940" etc., and probably different cities have different rates as well. Now, if the "49" route of the first provider is cheaper, my system (a2billing) will still use the more expensive "4930" code because it is more specific.  I'm looking for some awesome, smart tool that will automatically "normalize" all these code differences and output a clean ratesheet with only the cheapest rates.  Does such a thing exist? I wonder how everyone else is "normalizing" their different rate sheets. With a homebrewn script?  Thanks! Markus,you're not the first person and certainly not the last person who's ever asked about this. I had tried this on several mailing lists a little while ago.  A tool that could handle 10 or maybe even 5 provider rate-sheets all of which can potentially completely differ in formats from each other. Even worse are the rate update sheets from each provider which are many a times different from the initial rate sheets that the provider may have given you and then again they will differ from the rate updates from the remaining 4 providers you've just painstakingly inserted into your DB. Given the popularity of Asterisk and other popular OSS based telephony platforms with several successful businesses running 100s of millions of minutes, you'd think at least a few have sorted this problem out. But I believe those who have, never respond to these emails as it took them quite a bit of effort to create such a tool and aren't willing to just give it away. Just what I have observed (and was even blatantly told by someone on some mailing list, can't remember exactly)You may have to advertise in the commercial / business list or offer a bounty. There are several commercial solutions available but I think they all come as a "feature" of a larger billing/rating/routing platform  --
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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[Alex Balashov]

We solve this problem for our customers all the time, in various 
situationally-specific ways. But yes, we are not really in a position to 
genericise it and give it away.  It's not because we are greedy.  The time and 
resources just aren't there.

--
Alex Balashov - Principal 
Evariste Systems LLC 
235 E Ponce de Leon Ave 
Suite 106
Atlanta, GA 30030 
Tel: +1-678-954-0670 
Fax: +1-404-961-1892 
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.alexbalashov.com

"A E [Gmail]"  wrote:

>On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Markus  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> this question is not Asterisk specific, but since there are so many
>> experts present on this list, maybe its OK to ask anyways.
>>
>> I'm having a hard time "normalizing" rate sheets from different providers.
>> What I mean with this: the goal is to always get the cheapest rate for a
>> given destination. What I would like to do is throw like 10 rate sheets
>> from different providers together and as output get a single rate sheet
>> with only the cheapest rates. However, some providers are listing a
>> country, lets say Germany, as code "49" with a specific rate, and another
>> provider will list each city individually, and each code separately, e.g.
>> Berlin "4930", Hamburg "4940" etc., and probably different cities have
>> different rates as well. Now, if the "49" route of the first provider is
>> cheaper, my system (a2billing) will still use the more expensive "4930"
>> code because it is more specific.
>>
>> I'm looking for some awesome, smart tool that will automatically
>> "normalize" all these code differences and output a clean ratesheet with
>> only the cheapest rates.
>>
>> Does such a thing exist? I wonder how everyone else is "normalizing" their
>> different rate sheets. With a homebrewn script?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>Markus,
>
>you're not the first person and certainly not the last person who's ever
>asked about this. I had tried this on several mailing lists a little while
>ago.  A tool that could handle 10 or maybe even 5 provider rate-sheets all
>of which can potentially completely differ in formats from each other. Even
>worse are the rate update sheets from each provider which are many a times
>different from the initial rate sheets that the provider may have given you
>and then again they will differ from the rate updates from the remaining 4
>providers you've just painstakingly inserted into your DB.
>
>Given the popularity of Asterisk and other popular OSS based telephony
>platforms with several successful businesses running 100s of millions of
>minutes, you'd think at least a few have sorted this problem out. But I
>believe those who have, never respond to these emails as it took them quite
>a bit of effort to create such a tool and aren't willing to just give it
>away.
>
>Just what I have observed (and was even blatantly told by someone on some
>mailing list, can't remember exactly)
>
>You may have to advertise in the commercial / business list or offer a
>bounty. There are several commercial solutions available but I think they
>all come as a "feature" of a larger billing/rating/routing platform
>
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Re: [asterisk-users] Rate sheet "normalization"

[A E [Gmail]]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Markus  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> this question is not Asterisk specific, but since there are so many
> experts present on this list, maybe its OK to ask anyways.
>
> I'm having a hard time "normalizing" rate sheets from different providers.
> What I mean with this: the goal is to always get the cheapest rate for a
> given destination. What I would like to do is throw like 10 rate sheets
> from different providers together and as output get a single rate sheet
> with only the cheapest rates. However, some providers are listing a
> country, lets say Germany, as code "49" with a specific rate, and another
> provider will list each city individually, and each code separately, e.g.
> Berlin "4930", Hamburg "4940" etc., and probably different cities have
> different rates as well. Now, if the "49" route of the first provider is
> cheaper, my system (a2billing) will still use the more expensive "4930"
> code because it is more specific.
>
> I'm looking for some awesome, smart tool that will automatically
> "normalize" all these code differences and output a clean ratesheet with
> only the cheapest rates.
>
> Does such a thing exist? I wonder how everyone else is "normalizing" their
> different rate sheets. With a homebrewn script?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
Markus,

you're not the first person and certainly not the last person who's ever
asked about this. I had tried this on several mailing lists a little while
ago.  A tool that could handle 10 or maybe even 5 provider rate-sheets all
of which can potentially completely differ in formats from each other. Even
worse are the rate update sheets from each provider which are many a times
different from the initial rate sheets that the provider may have given you
and then again they will differ from the rate updates from the remaining 4
providers you've just painstakingly inserted into your DB.

Given the popularity of Asterisk and other popular OSS based telephony
platforms with several successful businesses running 100s of millions of
minutes, you'd think at least a few have sorted this problem out. But I
believe those who have, never respond to these emails as it took them quite
a bit of effort to create such a tool and aren't willing to just give it
away.

Just what I have observed (and was even blatantly told by someone on some
mailing list, can't remember exactly)

You may have to advertise in the commercial / business list or offer a
bounty. There are several commercial solutions available but I think they
all come as a "feature" of a larger billing/rating/routing platform
--
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[asterisk-users] Asterisk and chat

[Matteo Calorio]

Hello,


I have a working Asterisk installation, but I would like to add chat between 
users; I have also a working Ejabberd installation and with Asterisk's 
jabber.conf file I can make my two systems communicate.

What I can't do is to link together the two accounts, the asterisk extension 
and the ejabberd account for every user.

The final effect I would like is that a user, simply putting "myuser@pbx" and 
"mypass" in his softphone (Jitsi in my case) would get both voice and text 
messages enabled with (apparently) a single account.

It's a little difficult to explain for me, but I subscribed an account on 
ippi.fr and so did some friends of mine: well, without doing anything else we 
have both voice and chat.


Bye,
  Matteo

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Re: [asterisk-users] Dynamic hint from db?

[Roland]

I'll answer my own question for the archives... although my question maybe
was just too obvious ;-)

The problem was, that I had put this piece of Dialplan in my
extensions.conf like this:

[StumpelLocal]
exten => _ZXX!,hint,${SIP_BYEXT(${EXTEN},${CONTEXT})}
exten => _ZXX!,1,Verbose(3, Search extension ${EXTEN} in context
${CONTEXT})
  same => n,Set(SIP=${SIP_BYEXT(${EXTEN},${CONTEXT})})
  same => n,GotoIf(${SIP}?:notFound)
  same => n,SIPAddHeader(Alert-Info: internal)
  same => n,Dial(${SIP})
  same => n(notFound),Playback(you-dialed-wrong-number)
  same => n,Hangup


[StumpelZwaag]
include => StumpelLocal

I registered my SIP accounts in the database with context StumpelZwaag. But
of course the hints aren't being executed from StumpelZwaag, but probably
from StumpelLocal (if they have a contect at all??), the lookup failed. So
I changed the dynamic hint to:

exten => _ZXX!,hint,${SIP_BYEXT(${EXTEN},StumpelZwaag)}
exten => _ZXX!,1,Verbose(3, Search extension ${EXTEN} in context
${CONTEXT})
  same => n,Set(SIP=${SIP_BYEXT(${EXTEN},${CONTEXT})})
  same => n,GotoIf(${SIP}?:notFound)
  same => n,SIPAddHeader(Alert-Info: internal)
  same => n,Dial(${SIP})
  same => n(notFound),Playback(you-dialed-wrong-number)
  same => n,Hangup

I hardcoded the context, so now it works.

Also I found that "core show hints" on the CLI, also show the hints that
were creating through this dynamic hint. So you will see the actual list of
hints. At first I thought the dynamic hint would only be shown as
  _ZXX!@StumpelLocal: ${SIP_BYEXT(${EXTEN}
State:Unavailable Watchers  0

This is not the case, so you can test if your dynamic hint is working
correctly by checking this table.

Also my phone seems to be rather slow in processing the hint changes... so
it may take a few minutes before the changes take effect.




On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Roland  wrote:

> I would like to fetch my extensions from the database. I created a dynamic
> hint, but doesn't seem to work. The BLF on my phone doesn't change when the
> state of the extension changed.
>
> This is in my dialplan:
>
> exten => _ZXX!,hint,${SIP_BYEXT(${EXTEN},${CONTEXT})}
> exten => _ZXX!,1,Verbose(3, Search extension ${EXTEN} in context
> ${CONTEXT})
>   same => n,Set(SIP=${SIP_BYEXT(${EXTEN},${CONTEXT})})
>   same => n,GotoIf(${SIP}?:notFound)
>   same => n,SIPAddHeader(Alert-Info: internal)
>   same => n,Dial(${SIP})
>   same => n(notFound),Playback(you-dialed-wrong-number)
>   same => n,Hangup
>
> Is something like this possible?
>
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