Re: [asterisk-users] CALEA enforcement guidelines according to Comcast

2007-10-16 Thread Kristian Kielhofner
On 10/16/07, Senad Jordanovic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Kristian Kielhofner wrote:
> > Sounds like Comcast's manual for CALEA compliance was leaked.  Pretty
> > interesting read if you are curious:
> >
> > http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/
> >
> > Direct link (PDF):
> >
> > http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/docs/handbook.pdf
> >
>
> nice one Kris :)
>
> Senad
>

  I wish I could take the credit.  It was on Slashdot - YESTERDAY!  I
was surprised no one had mentioned it yet.

  Speaking of Slashdot, the links to the relevant guides for Cox were
in the comments:

http://www.cox.com/policy/leainformation/default.asp
http://www.cox.com/policy/leainformation/CoxLawfulInterceptWorksheet.pdf


-- 
Kristian Kielhofner

___
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [asterisk-users] CALEA enforcement guidelines according to Comcast

2007-10-16 Thread Senad Jordanovic
Kristian Kielhofner wrote:
> Sounds like Comcast's manual for CALEA compliance was leaked.  Pretty
> interesting read if you are curious:
> 
> http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/
> 
> Direct link (PDF):
> 
> http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/docs/handbook.pdf
> 

nice one Kris :)

Senad


___
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


[asterisk-users] CALEA enforcement guidelines according to Comcast

2007-10-16 Thread Kristian Kielhofner
Sounds like Comcast's manual for CALEA compliance was leaked.  Pretty
interesting read if you are curious:

http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/

Direct link (PDF):

http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/docs/handbook.pdf

-- 
Kristian Kielhofner

___
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [asterisk-users] CALEA support within asterisk?

2006-10-03 Thread Brandon Galbraith
On 10/3/06, Jay R. Ashworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 02:28:01PM -0500, Brandon Galbraith wrote:>end user (IANAL, though). CALEA should be fairly easy to implement>either in Asterisk (with patches) or on the media gateway (when
>the call hits the PSTN/GSM network). It's even easier if it's>SIP end to end, as you just need a box to sit in the middle and>reinvite both ends to run through the "monitoring system" as it
>were. -brandonAgain, my imperfect memories of CALEA from 10 years ago when thetelecom-list people were fighting over it are that this wouldn't begood enough -- CALEA requires that that the tap be invisible -- you're
not going to reinvite *everything*, are you?If the calls are hitting your media gateway, then it is transparent if you pull the audio stream right off of the gateway. It gets problematic if it's end-to-end SIP and you don't want to reinvite everything. You're going to have to sit in the middle of the audio stream somewhere, and if you don't normally do that for all-SIP calls, then it's definately going to raise flags when monitoring is done on an all-SIP conversation. 
-brandonĀ -- Brandon GalbraithEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]AIM: brandong00Voice: 630.400.6992"A true pirate starts drinking before the sun hits the yard-arm. Ya. --thelost"
___
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [asterisk-users] CALEA support within asterisk?

2006-10-03 Thread Patrick
On Tue, 2006-10-03 at 14:09 -0500, Rich Adamson wrote:
[snip]
> Anyone care to confirm or elaborate on those thoughts / guesses?

These guys seem to have a ready made solution or "box":
http://www.lawfulinterception.com/

Regards,
Patrick

___
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [asterisk-users] CALEA support within asterisk?

2006-10-03 Thread Jay R. Ashworth
On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 02:28:01PM -0500, Brandon Galbraith wrote:
>end user (IANAL, though). CALEA should be fairly easy to implement
>either in Asterisk (with patches) or on the media gateway (when
>the call hits the PSTN/GSM network). It's even easier if it's
>SIP end to end, as you just need a box to sit in the middle and
>reinvite both ends to run through the "monitoring system" as it
>were. -brandon

Again, my imperfect memories of CALEA from 10 years ago when the
telecom-list people were fighting over it are that this wouldn't be
good enough -- CALEA requires that that the tap be invisible -- you're
not going to reinvite *everything*, are you?

Cheers,
-- jra
-- 
Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Designer  Baylink RFC 2100
Ashworth & AssociatesThe Things I Think'87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA  http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274

"That's women for you; you divorce them, and 10 years later,
  they stop having sex with you."  -- Jennifer Crusie; _Fast_Women_
___
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [asterisk-users] CALEA support within asterisk?

2006-10-03 Thread Jay R. Ashworth
On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 12:53:12PM -0600, Colin Anderson wrote:
> >I, for one, welcome our new Republican overlords.
> 
> lol you are just full of pop culture references, aren't you? 

I don't get to use that one much, this not being Slashdot.

Cheers,
-- jra
-- 
Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Designer  Baylink RFC 2100
Ashworth & AssociatesThe Things I Think'87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA  http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274

"That's women for you; you divorce them, and 10 years later,
  they stop having sex with you."  -- Jennifer Crusie; _Fast_Women_
___
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [asterisk-users] CALEA support within asterisk?

2006-10-03 Thread J. Oquendo

Rich Adamson wrote:
As the OP of this thread, I'm involved with an itsp operation that 
includes asterisk with links to regional/national itsp facilities, 
PRI's to local pstn facilities, and broadband sip/iax connections to 
residence and business customers. I don't think the legalese will be 
justification for not providing calea support.
You're right for that matter due to your status as a provider. Well I 
work @ a provider I never name and we are using Netrake's nCite which is 
compliant.
So, my initial guess is that some "box" will be required (probably one 
provided by law enforcement, or, one that meets technical calea specs 
that must be purchased and installed) that accepts official and secure 
calea transactions (from law enforcement), and forwards those 
requested tranactions to asterisk in some form or another. To further 
advance that "guess", calea transactions may simply request certain 
cdr detail and/or might involve setting up a real-time call monitoring 
function forwarding audio to the requested calea agency. There is 
likely some sort of internal logging and reporting function that can 
be used as a form of "checks and balances" in subsequent court cases, 
etc.


If those "guesses" are anywhere near realistic, then I'd further guess 
that some asterisk app would need to be written to handle at least a 
portion of the calea tranactions.


There you have my two cents on this. Most SBC's should be compliant. As 
for the audio streams, someone using TLS/SIP renders that irrelevant.


--

J. Oquendo
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x1383A743
sil . infiltrated @ net http://www.infiltrated.net 


The happiness of society is the end of government.
John Adams

___
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [asterisk-users] CALEA support within asterisk?

2006-10-03 Thread Rich Adamson

Matthew Thompson wrote:

On 3 Oct 2006, at 19:53, Colin Anderson wrote:


I, for one, welcome our new Republican overlords.


lol you are just full of pop culture references, aren't you?


Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.

Seriously though - is anyone aware of a precis of CALEA? I'm about to 
install an Asterisk setup into our US office and being a Brit in the UK 
I'm not totally up on what your Republic overlords are upto.


If you're simply installing asterisk as a pbx in your US office, you 
probably don't have to do anything (for calea). If you are routing voip 
calls in a manner more closely resembling the functions of a pstn 
central office switch where calls through the asterisk system can be 
to/from anyone (eg, outside your business), then you probably need to 
keep a close eye on this thread.


As one of the other gentlemen on this list suggested, calls originated 
from your UK office passing through your US asterisk box to your 
customers (or potential customers) are not governed by calea laws as the 
calea function would be implemented by the US telco in this case. The 
exact same applies in the reverse direction. Regardless of which 
direction the call is flowing in this case, the telco provides the 
necessary calea functions.


___
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [asterisk-users] CALEA support within asterisk?

2006-10-03 Thread Brandon Galbraith
On 10/3/06, Matthew Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 3 Oct 2006, at 19:53, Colin Anderson wrote:>> I, for one, welcome our new Republican overlords.>> lol you are just full of pop culture references, aren't you?Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.
Seriously though - is anyone aware of a precis of CALEA? I'm about toinstall an Asterisk setup into our US office and being a Brit in theUK I'm not totally up on what your Republic overlords are upto.
I believe CALEA applies primarily to organizations that are ITSPs
(Vonage, for example). Your business doesn't need to provide CALEA if
it's just an end user (IANAL, though). CALEA should be fairly easy to
implement either in Asterisk (with patches) or on the media gateway
(when the call hits the PSTN/GSM network). It's even easier if it's SIP
end to end, as you just need a box to sit in the middle and reinvite
both ends to run through the "monitoring system" as it were.

-brandon
___
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [asterisk-users] CALEA support within asterisk?

2006-10-03 Thread Matthew Thompson

On 3 Oct 2006, at 19:53, Colin Anderson wrote:


I, for one, welcome our new Republican overlords.


lol you are just full of pop culture references, aren't you?


Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.

Seriously though - is anyone aware of a precis of CALEA? I'm about to  
install an Asterisk setup into our US office and being a Brit in the  
UK I'm not totally up on what your Republic overlords are upto.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] :o)

--
Matthew Thompson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.voipnews.org.uk/



___
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [asterisk-users] CALEA support within asterisk?

2006-10-03 Thread Rich Adamson

Inline...


On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 12:13:27PM -0500, Rich Adamson wrote:
 
Does anyone know if asterisk currently supports the US government's 
Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) 
regulations? If not, does anyone have this item on their To-Do list?



Why in hell *would* anyone?

I don't think CALEA ("to", not "for" :-) applies to anything smaller
than a CO switch anyway, does it?

  

Yes it does. Firstly to address the original poster:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-260434A1.doc

CALEA can in this case be implemented by your provider alleviating you 
somewhat. Depending on how you infer legalese.


As the OP of this thread, I'm involved with an itsp operation that 
includes asterisk with links to regional/national itsp facilities, PRI's 
to local pstn facilities, and broadband sip/iax connections to residence 
and business customers. I don't think the legalese will be justification 
for not providing calea support.


CALEA outside of sniffing, facilitates recording information (CDR's 
etc.) , so setting up a designated machine (syslog perhpas) and saving 
the logging information(/var/log/asterisk/*) from Asterisk will likely 
suffice.


I've not dug into the calea requirements indepth as yet, however I 
believe it does require real-time call monitoring (eg, audio), cdr-like 
records, and some form of reporting (unknown what reporting truly means 
in this case).


So, my initial guess is that some "box" will be required (probably one 
provided by law enforcement, or, one that meets technical calea specs 
that must be purchased and installed) that accepts official and secure 
calea transactions (from law enforcement), and forwards those requested 
tranactions to asterisk in some form or another. To further advance that 
"guess", calea transactions may simply request certain cdr detail and/or 
might involve setting up a real-time call monitoring function forwarding 
audio to the requested calea agency. There is likely some sort of 
internal logging and reporting function that can be used as a form of 
"checks and balances" in subsequent court cases, etc.


If those "guesses" are anywhere near realistic, then I'd further guess 
that some asterisk app would need to be written to handle at least a 
portion of the calea tranactions.


Anyone care to confirm or elaborate on those thoughts / guesses?

___
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


RE: [asterisk-users] CALEA support within asterisk?

2006-10-03 Thread Colin Anderson
>I, for one, welcome our new Republican overlords.

lol you are just full of pop culture references, aren't you? 
___
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [asterisk-users] CALEA support within asterisk?

2006-10-03 Thread Jay R. Ashworth
On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 01:59:31PM -0400, J. Oquendo wrote:
> >Does that mean that they've made it illegal to use Asterisk?
> >
> Illegal? It's illegal to question your new government thank you.

I, for one, welcome our new Republican overlords.

Cheers,
-- jr 'not' a
-- 
Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Designer  Baylink RFC 2100
Ashworth & AssociatesThe Things I Think'87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA  http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274

"That's women for you; you divorce them, and 10 years later,
  they stop having sex with you."  -- Jennifer Crusie; _Fast_Women_
___
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [asterisk-users] CALEA support within asterisk?

2006-10-03 Thread J. Oquendo

Jay R. Ashworth wrote:

On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 12:13:27PM -0500, Rich Adamson wrote:
  
Does anyone know if asterisk currently supports the US government's 
Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) regulations? 
If not, does anyone have this item on their To-Do list?



Why in hell *would* anyone?

I don't think CALEA ("to", not "for" :-) applies to anything smaller
than a CO switch anyway, does it?

  

Yes it does. Firstly to address the original poster:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-260434A1.doc

CALEA can in this case be implemented by your provider alleviating you 
somewhat. Depending on how you infer legalese.


CALEA outside of sniffing, facilitates recording information (CDR's 
etc.) , so setting up a designated machine (syslog perhpas) and saving 
the logging information(/var/log/asterisk/*) from Asterisk will likely 
suffice.

Does that mean that they've made it illegal to use Asterisk?

  

Illegal? It's illegal to question your new government thank you.

--

J. Oquendo
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x1383A743
sil . infiltrated @ net http://www.infiltrated.net 


The happiness of society is the end of government.
John Adams

___
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [asterisk-users] CALEA support within asterisk?

2006-10-03 Thread Jay R. Ashworth
On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 12:13:27PM -0500, Rich Adamson wrote:
> Does anyone know if asterisk currently supports the US government's 
> Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) regulations? 
> If not, does anyone have this item on their To-Do list?

Why in hell *would* anyone?

I don't think CALEA ("to", not "for" :-) applies to anything smaller
than a CO switch anyway, does it?

> court order) for law enforcement personnel, etc. The broadband / ITSP 
> compliance due date is May 14, 2007.

Oh yeah; people are using Asterisk for things bigger than PBXen.  Oops.

> The CALEA implementation and compliance for pstn central offices is 
> complete (with some exceptions), and required software development 
> efforts by each of the central office switch vendors.

Good luck with that.  I suspect you *can't* implement CALEA support for
Asterisk -- doesn't the government require some security by obscurity
concerning the implementation?

Does that mean that they've made it illegal to use Asterisk?

Cheers,
-- jra
-- 
Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Designer  Baylink RFC 2100
Ashworth & AssociatesThe Things I Think'87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA  http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274

"That's women for you; you divorce them, and 10 years later,
  they stop having sex with you."  -- Jennifer Crusie; _Fast_Women_
___
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [asterisk-users] CALEA support within asterisk?

2006-10-03 Thread J. Oquendo

Rich Adamson wrote:
For those that are not familiar with CALEA, it's the governement's way 
of intercepting or "monitoring" voice communications (presumably with 
a court order) for law enforcement personnel, etc. The broadband / 
ITSP compliance due date is May 14, 2007. 


For those unfamiliar with CALEA entirely, Asterisk is solely a program 
running on a machine. It does logging like any other program, so logging 
is available, the majority of your concern should come from your network 
where the taps would occur... Anyway the FCC permits some providers to 
apply for an exemption to CALEA when monitoring is not technically 
feasible. Anyone with enough networking, engineering experience can 
draft up information and request exemption.


http://www.xchangemag.com/hotnews/5bh171622461175.html

Anyhow of newsworthiness and humor (depending on your view) "The FCC is 
also responsible for the steady expansion of the Communications 
Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) and has attempted to mandate 
 VoIP 
back-doors despite the fact that doing so contradicts the language and 
intent of CALEA as well as the agency's own standing policies regarding 
the classification of Internet services. The FCC is also guilty of 
frequent attempts to exceed its authority, most notably by attempting to 
mandate  the 
anti-consumer broadcast flag without congressional authorization."


http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060917-7758.html

Right... http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060917-7758.html

--

J. Oquendo
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x1383A743
sil . infiltrated @ net http://www.infiltrated.net 


The happiness of society is the end of government.
John Adams

___
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


[asterisk-users] CALEA support within asterisk?

2006-10-03 Thread Rich Adamson
Does anyone know if asterisk currently supports the US government's 
Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) regulations? 
If not, does anyone have this item on their To-Do list?


For those that are not familiar with CALEA, it's the governement's way 
of intercepting or "monitoring" voice communications (presumably with a 
court order) for law enforcement personnel, etc. The broadband / ITSP 
compliance due date is May 14, 2007.


The CALEA implementation and compliance for pstn central offices is 
complete (with some exceptions), and required software development 
efforts by each of the central office switch vendors.


Rich

___
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [Asterisk-Users] CALEA compliance (was voip connection problems)

2005-04-29 Thread Henry Devito
If you go to the fcc.gov website and search for CALEA there is around 7 
documents that come up for April 27 2005.  I believe I remember reading it 
one of those documents.
- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Capouch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion" 

Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] voip connection problems


trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com wrote:
 a couple weeks ago the FCC
(america) ruled that all voip providers that connect to the PSTN
(vonage, broadvoice, voicepulse, etc) have to have CALEA support
(wiretap equipment for law enforcement).  Failure to comply is a $10,000
fine per day.
Could you please provide a reference for this assertion?
Thx.
B.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users 
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [Asterisk-Users] CALEA?

2004-02-04 Thread Adam Hart
> I'll spell this out for those of you who couldn't catch my point in 
> that last sentence: design systems where it is _impossible_ for 
> interception to occur, at least from the standpoint of the network 
> provider.  We're a long, long way from that (with the possible 
> exception of Skype, but since they're closed source, we can't be 
> sure, can we?)
> 

We ain't that far off, something's in the works
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [Asterisk-Users] CALEA?

2004-02-04 Thread John Todd
At 3:39 PM -0600 2/4/04, Steven Critchfield wrote:
On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 15:24, Tilghman Lesher wrote:
 On Wednesday 04 February 2004 01:26, Ryan Finnesey wrote:
 > What are my support options for CALEA with Asterisk?
 Not many.  Basically, if you have Zaptel devices, you can use
 ZapBarge to listen to those conversations without having to
 physically tap the lines.  Beyond that, there isn't a capability
 to selectively listen to portions of calls.  You could choose to
 record all calls with Monitor, for example.
 IANAL, but this seems like a legal grey area, as the FCC has
 been pushing against regulating VoIP services, which may mean
 that VoIP services are not legally considered communication, which
 would exclude them from CALEA.  However, this is for lawyers to
 argue in court and for a judge to decide.

From what I remember reading, Powell doesn't want to regulate VoIP to
VoIP as it is just an application which happens to pass audio data. He
may well have to step in for PSTN to VoIP as the PSTN part is without a
doubt a telephone call. Of course the only people who really need to
worry much about that would be those considered as a CLEC right? The
majority of us here are acting as PBX operators and aren't required to
intercept.
--
Steven Critchfield  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Note: CALEA is a term used in the USA, but the concepts apply 
worldwide to interception of voice traffic or recording of call 
transactions.

This all boils down to a fundamental question:

"Do you believe that individuals have the right to communicate 
verbally without the government having the ability to listen to the 
conversation?"

If your answer is "No", then CALEA applies to VoIP, regardless of 
method, switching location, equipment, interconnection to PSTN, or 
numbering schemes.  Any _network_ provider would need to filter or 
block traffic which, based on their BELIEF of ability to transport 
voice communication, be un-interceptable.  This is fundamentally 
impossible without de-activation of much of what we know as the 
Internet (at the protocol level) and I do not seriously consider 
people who reply in the negative.

If your answer is "Yes", then things get a little more grey.  Where, 
exactly, does the (admittedly useful and "good") intercept right of 
the government stop?  At any interconnection with the PSTN?  At any 
system that uses an e.164 numbering scheme?  At any system that 
charges money for access?  The real and only legal teeth that could 
be enforced on this boils down to numbering and addressing methods. 
If there is a single, unified number allocation mechanism that is 
universally accepted, then control of any traffic has an authority 
chain that can be tracked to a responsible party, who can either a) 
be denied access to the numbering scheme based on certain criteria, 
or b) be compelled to allow interception or signalling tracing lest 
they be faced with (a).   Once you move outside of the numbering 
("authority") space, you're outside of anyone's ability to enforce 
compliance with any laws regarding intercept or session tracing: the 
directory servers can be in other nations, and the end users are 
difficult or impossible to detect if they have clever clients.

This is the same problem the Internet faces today.  There is no 
reason that someone couldn't start up another "Internet" using the 
ipv4 address space.  But they don't, because it wouldn't be _the_ 
Internet.  (don't argue with me about bogon route announcements - 
those are do not have the attention of any government on them at this 
point, or they'd be solved.)  Thus, there is a control mechanism that 
can be placed on telephony as well - there is a "root" to all phone 
numbers, and someone is assigned those numbers.  The ubiquity and 
universally expected functionality of those numbers is what prevents 
others from making up their own schemes and creating independent and 
regulation-free environments (sorry, FWD and others - unless you're 
on e.164, you won't get very far in a non-hobbyist environment.)  The 
only hope are the peer-to-peer type systems that have decent scaling 
factors, but still, gateways into the PSTN are difficult to manage 
with those platforms.

Law enforcement fails to recognize this larger issue of authority, 
and is focusing on the tactical situation of "how do we snoop on any 
call?"  Well, sorry boys, the answer is: you can't.  It will only get 
harder as time goes on.  Just like you can't read my email (easily) 
if I choose to make it difficult, I should be able to perform the 
same snoop-proofing on my telephone calls.

The good news for LEA is that court orders here in the US still have 
some traction.  If I, as a PBX operator, IPCSP, ISP, or hosting 
provider get a court order that says that I must open my records for 
search, or allow interception equipment to be installed on my 
network, I will have no problem honoring that request to the best of 
my ability.  However, that ability may be very limited base

Re: [Asterisk-Users] CALEA?

2004-02-04 Thread Steve Kennedy
On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 03:24:17PM -0600, Tilghman Lesher wrote:

> IANAL, but this seems like a legal grey area, as the FCC has
> been pushing against regulating VoIP services, which may mean
> that VoIP services are not legally considered communication, which
> would exclude them from CALEA.  However, this is for lawyers to
> argue in court and for a judge to decide.

If you read the latest Pulver.com report I believe the DOJ and Homeland
Security lot have asked the FCC that they want regulation ...

In the UK offering VoIP services definately puts you in the realms of
telco land, and the regulatory environment that entails (legal trace,
RIP Act etc).


Steve

-- 
NetTek Ltd Phone/Fax +44-(0)20 7483 2455
SMS steve-epage (at) gbnet.net [body] gpg 1024D/468952DB 2001-09-19
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [Asterisk-Users] CALEA?

2004-02-04 Thread Steven Critchfield
On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 15:24, Tilghman Lesher wrote:
> On Wednesday 04 February 2004 01:26, Ryan Finnesey wrote:
> > What are my support options for CALEA with Asterisk?
> 
> Not many.  Basically, if you have Zaptel devices, you can use
> ZapBarge to listen to those conversations without having to
> physically tap the lines.  Beyond that, there isn't a capability
> to selectively listen to portions of calls.  You could choose to
> record all calls with Monitor, for example.
> 
> IANAL, but this seems like a legal grey area, as the FCC has
> been pushing against regulating VoIP services, which may mean
> that VoIP services are not legally considered communication, which
> would exclude them from CALEA.  However, this is for lawyers to
> argue in court and for a judge to decide.

>From what I remember reading, Powell doesn't want to regulate VoIP to
VoIP as it is just an application which happens to pass audio data. He
may well have to step in for PSTN to VoIP as the PSTN part is without a
doubt a telephone call. Of course the only people who really need to
worry much about that would be those considered as a CLEC right? The
majority of us here are acting as PBX operators and aren't required to
intercept. 
-- 
Steven Critchfield  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [Asterisk-Users] CALEA?

2004-02-04 Thread Tilghman Lesher
On Wednesday 04 February 2004 01:26, Ryan Finnesey wrote:
> What are my support options for CALEA with Asterisk?

Not many.  Basically, if you have Zaptel devices, you can use
ZapBarge to listen to those conversations without having to
physically tap the lines.  Beyond that, there isn't a capability
to selectively listen to portions of calls.  You could choose to
record all calls with Monitor, for example.

IANAL, but this seems like a legal grey area, as the FCC has
been pushing against regulating VoIP services, which may mean
that VoIP services are not legally considered communication, which
would exclude them from CALEA.  However, this is for lawyers to
argue in court and for a judge to decide.

-Tilghman

___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


Re: [Asterisk-Users] CALEA?

2004-02-04 Thread Rich Adamson

> What are my support options for CALEA with Asterisk?
>  

Don't think you'll find any support without some major AGI/Manager programming,
and then not likely to interface with the calea requesters.



___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


[Asterisk-Users] CALEA?

2004-02-04 Thread Ryan Finnesey
What are my support options for CALEA with Asterisk?
 

Ryan
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users