RE: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Todd Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 8:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question At 8:15 PM -0500 12/4/03, Jim Flagg wrote: - Original Message - From: Walker Haddock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question We have an installation with 9 inbound voice channels (one is the fax) and 768K data. It is a Hybrid PRI. It terminates into a T100P. It is working great! The cost was better than the POTS plus data. Can I ask what Telephone/Internet service provider you are getting this from? Does anybody else have a setup like this? Very interesting. I've had now two fights with providers (Verizon and SBC) who would not offer such a service, claiming that it was impossible to hybridize a PRI. I think that's a great offering, and of course, it is possible, and especially appealing for Asterisk users. I, too, would be interested in hearing from what vendor you are getting such a service. John, Check the front of your local phonebook for CLEC listings. In your area, I'd expect to find at a bunch listed, and at least two or three that are facilities based, capable of serving most areas in the Willamette Valley (Vancouver down to Eugene). If not, perhaps there's a good business for you to investigate. =D Our CLEC here, KMC Telecom, does the hybrid T1 thing as a matter of course. I can have a 6x6 system delivered to my customers for less than $400/month (.09/local connect), or unlimited local outbound for less than $500/month. KMC even provides the customer with a Lucent Connectreach, which breaks out the POTS lines and can hand off the data either as a FT1 or Ethernet. I'd like to play with using * to do it all, but need to find a qualified guinea pig first. -- Troy Settle Pulaski Networks http://www.psknet.com 540.994.4254 ~ 866.477.5638 Pulaski Chamber 2002 Small Business Of The Year ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John Todd Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 3:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question Very interesting. I've had now two fights with providers (Verizon and SBC) who would not offer such a service, claiming that it was impossible to hybridize a PRI. I think that's a great offering, and of course, it is possible, and especially appealing for Asterisk users. I, too, would be interested in hearing from what vendor you are getting such a service. JT ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users Unless the world o' telecom has changed there really isn't such a thing as a Hybrid PRI. You can order a PRI with either voice only, data only or voice+data. I used to order them all the time from GTE (now Verzion) when I ran an ISP here in Hawaii a few years back. We ordered voice+data to support was called data over voice. The only difference between an ISDN voice or data call is what is sent over the d channel during call setup (voice/data and 56k/64k). GTE used to charge by the minute for local isdn data calls but isdn voice calls were free. The Livingston Portmasters we used as access servers would answer the inbound call as a voice call and then look at the inbound data stream. If it was ppp the Portmaster would just process it as ppp data. It was a way of getting around gte's per minute data call charges. As far as GTE's switches (and CDR records) were concerned it was just a voice call. The person who you talked to at Verizon probably had no idea what hybrid was so they just said as usual that it didn't exist. Hell, most Telco sales I've experienced still don't even know that ISDN exists :-) Try ordering a data PRI and add voice or voice PRI and add data, either will work. I'll bet they are two different tariffs :-) To get 768k of data out of a pri you would need to bond 12 channels via multilink-ppp (rfc1618 as I recall). The linux 2.4 kernel supports multilink-ppp (mlpppd) over a number of different phy layers. I'm new * and just got my first * up and running (*very* cool so far, needs doc writers though :-). I'm expecting my GS phones Monday from pulver, I've never seen a T100P. I assume you setup the T100P to use X number of channels for voice and the remaining go to mlpppd for data. I'm guessing here but I assume you would have a hunt group assigned to the voice pri channels for inbound voice calls. If you wanted inbound data you would need a second hunt group assigned to the data channels. Is that a good guess Walker? :-) John Breeden Plum Hall, Inc. Hawaii ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question
We have an installation with 9 inbound voice channels (one is the fax) and 768K data. It is a Hybrid PRI. It terminates into a T100P. It is working great! The cost was better than the POTS plus data. Can I ask what Telephone/Internet service provider you are getting this from? Does anybody else have a setup like this? I, too, would be interested in hearing from what vendor you are getting such a service. JT Just wanted to say our PRI provider here in South Florida has this Hybrid system too! They are suppose to be offering this setup all over the US. There's is 6 voice channels and 512K Data! There called Allegiance Telecom, Inc. We have a full PRI from them. But out sister company has there Hybrid! Works great! ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 08:15:21PM -0500, Jim Flagg wrote: - Original Message - From: Walker Haddock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question We have an installation with 9 inbound voice channels (one is the fax) and 768K data. It is a Hybrid PRI. It terminates into a T100P. It is working great! The cost was better than the POTS plus data. Can I ask what Telephone/Internet service provider you are getting this from? Does anybody else have a setup like this? Xspedius -- DataCrest, Inc. -- Technically Superior ** Walker Haddock http://www.datacrest.com DataCrest, Inc.e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1634A Montgomery Hwy.phone: 1-888-941-3282, 1-205-335-8589 Birmingham, AL 35216 fax: 1-205-823-7838 *** ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question
On Fri, 2003-12-05 at 08:34, Jim Flagg wrote: Original Message - From: Ariel Batista [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question We have an installation with 9 inbound voice channels (one is the fax) and 768K data. It is a Hybrid PRI. It terminates into a T100P. It is working great! The cost was better than the POTS plus data. Can I ask what Telephone/Internet service provider you are getting this from? Does anybody else have a setup like this? I, too, would be interested in hearing from what vendor you are getting such a service. JT Just wanted to say our PRI provider here in South Florida has this Hybrid system too! They are suppose to be offering this setup all over the US. There's is 6 voice channels and 512K Data! There called Allegiance Telecom, Inc. We have a full PRI from them. But out sister company has there Hybrid! Works great! Yes, I am aware of these types of setups. I have used http://www.cbeyond.com. They are one of the few that dynamically vary the bandwidth between voice and internet based upon how many calls are in progress. If no calls are in progress the whole 1.5Mb is available for internet connections. The part that intrigued me was, It terminates into a T100P, implying that there are no channel banks between the ISP provided equipment and the T100P. I strait digital T1 connection. It seems like this would require some modifications to Asterisk and some coordination with the telephone/internet provider. That's what I was interested in. Basically it works like having ISDN dialup with a lot of bonding. When asterisk notices more than X lines idle, it dials up the other side and sends it off to ZapRAS to bond the channels in. If asterisk notices less than X channels free, it disconnects one of the ZapRAS channels. Bandwidth is then in units of 64K connections. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question
On Fri, 2003-12-05 at 10:18, Walker Haddock wrote: On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 08:15:21PM -0500, Jim Flagg wrote: - Original Message - From: Walker Haddock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question We have an installation with 9 inbound voice channels (one is the fax) and 768K data. It is a Hybrid PRI. It terminates into a T100P. It is working great! The cost was better than the POTS plus data. Can I ask what Telephone/Internet service provider you are getting this from? Does anybody else have a setup like this? Xspedius I know that Time Warner Telecom (www.twtelecom.com) also provides a mixed data/voice burstable PRI T1 with their VersiPak service. I have installed a number of both channelized/channel banked VersiPaks and one PRI versipak (though it was not with Asterisk, it's connected to an InterTel system). The non-PRI based versipak is a bit cheaper, but you don't get the PRI abilities. They will do channelized hand over via T1 or will break out to POTs for you. It's really a nice product, and well priced. For one client, we picked up a 12 Voice channel/ 768K Internet PRI with data burstable almost all the way to 1.544mbit based on voice channel use. Voice hand over was via a single PRI, and data hand over was via fast eithernet. Pricing with a 3 year contract was below $800/month, in Tucson AZ. Harry ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question
I know that Time Warner Telecom (www.twtelecom.com) also provides a mixed data/voice burstable PRI T1 with their VersiPak service. I have installed a number of both channelized/channel banked VersiPaks and one PRI versipak (though it was not with Asterisk, it's connected to an InterTel system). The non-PRI based versipak is a bit cheaper, but you don't get the PRI abilities. They will do channelized hand over via T1 or will break out to POTs for you. It's really a nice product, and well priced. For one client, we picked up a 12 Voice channel/ 768K Internet PRI with data burstable almost all the way to 1.544mbit based on voice channel use. Voice hand over was via a single PRI, and data hand over was via fast eithernet. Pricing with a 3 year contract was below $800/month, in Tucson AZ. What box or boxes do they use on either end to handle the dynamic sizing on the voice/data channels? Ray. -- Scanned for viruses and dangerous content at http://www.oneunified.net and is believed to be clean. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question
Hi All. I'm working on an * configuration. We require 8 inbound POTS lines, and CT1 or PRI seems like it will be quite expensive at that level. I've read that a T1 Channelbank plus the T100P would be a (the?) way to go for this situation. What is the recommended channelbank for use in this scenario? From searching the archives I see a lot of suggestions to get a channelbank from ebay. I would prefer to be able to use new products so I can easily duplicate the setup for other branch offices in my company. My second question relatees to the Grandstream phones. When they are a member of a queue group, I get a loud annoying ring in the handset when its in use and another call comes in on the queue. Is there a way to enforce 1 call per phone in sip.conf? Either that or a way to tell the GS102 to return busy when * trys to send them a call. Thanks in advance. Paul M. Oster Free 20MB Web Site Hosting and Personalized E-mail Service! Get It Now At Doteasy.com http://www.doteasy.com/et/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 06:26:49PM -0600, Paul Oster wrote: Hi All. I'm working on an * configuration. We require 8 inbound POTS lines, and CT1 or PRI seems like it will be We have an installation with 9 inbound voice channels (one is the fax) and 768K data. It is a Hybrid PRI. It terminates into a T100P. It is working great! The cost was better than the POTS plus data. quite expensive at that level. I've read that a T1 Channelbank plus the T100P would be a (the?) way to go for this situation. What is the recommended channelbank for use in this scenario? From searching the archives I see a lot of suggestions to get a channelbank from ebay. I would prefer to be able to use new products so I can easily duplicate the setup for other branch offices in my company. We're not using a channel bank. I have one port on a TDM card for the fax machine. My second question relatees to the Grandstream phones. When they are a member of a queue group, I get a loud annoying ring in the handset when its in use and another call comes in on the queue. Is there a way to enforce 1 call per phone in sip.conf? Either that or a way to tell the GS102 to return busy when * trys to send them a call. You need to use the latest CVS, it includes the work done by Paul Lieu. It works great. You just configure your sip.conf according to the notes in the bug report: http://bugs.digium.com/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=408 It solved my GS BT102 call waiting ring in ear problem! Walker Thanks in advance. Paul M. Oster Free 20MB Web Site Hosting and Personalized E-mail Service! Get It Now At Doteasy.com http://www.doteasy.com/et/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- DataCrest, Inc. -- Technically Superior ** Walker Haddock http://www.datacrest.com DataCrest, Inc.e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1634A Montgomery Hwy.phone: 1-888-941-3282, 1-205-335-8589 Birmingham, AL 35216 fax: 1-205-823-7838 *** ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question
I just went through this cycle. I did go ebay and went with a Carrier Access Access Bank I, since I still haven't decided if this will be our production system and I didn't want to invest too much to find out. After fighting with it all day today, I would not recommend the AB1 for this application -- both inbound and outbound calling, because the AB1 doesn't support call supervision on the inbound fxo ports. And their tech support says that Carrier Access does not sell a model with call sup. There are various work arounds, but I think not matter what it would be more functional to have a channel bank that supports call sup. I also think there are issues with some CBs and caller ID. If you want caller ID make sure to ask that it is supported and with which cards. Adtran seems to be the most recommended vendor on the list. Many refs to TA 750s. -- Jonathan Moore Director of Technology Winfield Public Schools Office 620.221.5100 Fax 620.221.0508 Quoting Paul Oster [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi All. I'm working on an * configuration. We require 8 inbound POTS lines, and CT1 or PRI seems like it will be quite expensive at that level. I've read that a T1 Channelbank plus the T100P would be a (the?) way to go for this situation. What is the recommended channelbank for use in this scenario? From searching the archives I see a lot of suggestions to get a channelbank from ebay. I would prefer to be able to use new products so I can easily duplicate the setup for other branch offices in my company. My second question relatees to the Grandstream phones. When they are a member of a queue group, I get a loud annoying ring in the handset when its in use and another call comes in on the queue. Is there a way to enforce 1 call per phone in sip.conf? Either that or a way to tell the GS102 to return busy when * trys to send them a call. Thanks in advance. Paul M. Oster Free 20MB Web Site Hosting and Personalized E-mail Service! Get It Now At Doteasy.com http://www.doteasy.com/et/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users Visit Winfield Public Schools at http://usd465.com - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question
I looked at the same idea, but since we are not in a major metro area we
couldn't get a mixed data/voice circuit. If a local number isn't necessary (say
for 800# inbound) you could also go with a VoIP provider like Vonage for PSTN
connectivity which would also eleminate the need for a channel bank (or even
the T1 card)
--
Jonathan Moore
Director of Technology
Winfield Public Schools
Office 620.221.5100
Fax 620.221.0508
Quoting Walker Haddock [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 06:26:49PM -0600, Paul Oster wrote:
Hi All.
I'm working on an * configuration. We require 8 inbound POTS lines, and
CT1 or PRI seems like it will be
We have an installation with 9 inbound voice channels (one is the fax) and
768K data. It is a Hybrid PRI. It terminates into a T100P. It is working
great! The cost was better than the POTS plus data.
quite expensive at that level. I've read that a T1 Channelbank plus
the T100P would be a (the?) way to go
for this situation. What is the recommended channelbank for use in this
scenario? From searching the archives
I see a lot of suggestions to get a channelbank from ebay. I would
prefer to be able to use new products
so I can easily duplicate the setup for other branch offices in my
company.
We're not using a channel bank. I have one port on a TDM card for the fax
machine.
My second question relatees to the Grandstream phones. When they are a
member of a queue group, I get a loud
annoying ring in the handset when its in use and another call comes in
on the queue.
Is there a way to enforce 1 call per phone in sip.conf? Either that or
a way to tell the GS102 to return busy when
* trys to send them a call.
You need to use the latest CVS, it includes the work done by Paul Lieu. It
works great. You just configure your sip.conf according to the notes in the
bug report:
http://bugs.digium.com/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=408
It solved my GS BT102 call waiting ring in ear problem!
Walker
Thanks in advance.
Paul M. Oster
Free 20MB Web Site Hosting and Personalized E-mail Service!
Get It Now At Doteasy.com http://www.doteasy.com/et/
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Walker Haddock http://www.datacrest.com
DataCrest, Inc.e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
1634A Montgomery Hwy.phone: 1-888-941-3282, 1-205-335-8589
Birmingham, AL 35216 fax: 1-205-823-7838
***
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question
- Original Message - From: Walker Haddock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question We have an installation with 9 inbound voice channels (one is the fax) and 768K data. It is a Hybrid PRI. It terminates into a T100P. It is working great! The cost was better than the POTS plus data. Can I ask what Telephone/Internet service provider you are getting this from? Does anybody else have a setup like this? ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question
At 8:15 PM -0500 12/4/03, Jim Flagg wrote: - Original Message - From: Walker Haddock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question We have an installation with 9 inbound voice channels (one is the fax) and 768K data. It is a Hybrid PRI. It terminates into a T100P. It is working great! The cost was better than the POTS plus data. Can I ask what Telephone/Internet service provider you are getting this from? Does anybody else have a setup like this? Very interesting. I've had now two fights with providers (Verizon and SBC) who would not offer such a service, claiming that it was impossible to hybridize a PRI. I think that's a great offering, and of course, it is possible, and especially appealing for Asterisk users. I, too, would be interested in hearing from what vendor you are getting such a service. JT ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question
- Original Message - From: Jonathan Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question I just went through this cycle. I did go ebay and went with a Carrier Access Access Bank I, since I still haven't decided if this will be our production system and I didn't want to invest too much to find out. After fighting with it all day today, I would not recommend the AB1 for this application -- both inbound and outbound calling, because the AB1 doesn't support call supervision on the inbound fxo ports. And their tech support says that Carrier Access does not sell a model with call sup. I am sorry but that CAC rep is on Crack ;), I have em installed perfect gear ADIT 600 from Carrier Access most certainly does supprt Far End Disconnect (watch the wrap) http://www.carrieraccess.com/dbfiles/marketing/card_specsheets_pdf/fxo_dpt_8 channel_voice_service_card_spec_sheet.pdf please see http://voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk+Hardware for first person experience with various CBs ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question
i-55.net which is a regional ISP for Louisiana, Mississippi and maybe one or two other nearby states provide us with a PRI (6 channels) and 384K internet service over a single T-1 line. They provide the service as a PRI and Ethernet Internet out of their Adtran channel bank. We asked for the service to be provided this way, I'm sure they could have terminated both into our T100P if we had asked. They are a small enough company that they actually care about their customers, but large enough to be an ISP and CLEC (their CLEC stuff is fairly recent) and provide good service. We've had the service for a week or two. This is a new office for us and it's not staffed yet. There have been some annoying installation and configuration issues, but they worked with us to resolve them quickly. The setup was not perfect, but if we had been using BellSouth of one of the big guys we would not have had any of those issues resolved by now. When we added two additional channels for our PRI a couple of days after it was turned up someone didn't map the channels in the local Adtran unit and so those channels did not work. Took 24 hours to resolve. Since the office is not staffed we did NOT push for a fast fix. They took about 24 hours from the time we placed the order for additional channels until they turned them up, then an additional 24 hrs to fix the maping problem. When I've dealt with RBOCS they spent at least two days just blaiming our equipment before they even tried to fix the problem, and that was with us ecsalating the issue with them. I've been very happy with i-55.net. Granted, they REALLY want to contract for our other current offices so they are treating us well, but I don't thing that is the major reason for our good support and service. They were priced less that most of the other companies I've worked with. John Todd wrote: At 8:15 PM -0500 12/4/03, Jim Flagg wrote: - Original Message - From: Walker Haddock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question We have an installation with 9 inbound voice channels (one is the fax) and 768K data. It is a Hybrid PRI. It terminates into a T100P. It is working great! The cost was better than the POTS plus data. Can I ask what Telephone/Internet service provider you are getting this from? Does anybody else have a setup like this? Very interesting. I've had now two fights with providers (Verizon and SBC) who would not offer such a service, claiming that it was impossible to hybridize a PRI. I think that's a great offering, and of course, it is possible, and especially appealing for Asterisk users. I, too, would be interested in hearing from what vendor you are getting such a service. JT ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Channelbank Recomendation and GS102 question
In what areas are you looking for the hybrid service? Ray Burkholder [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oneunified.net 704 576 5101 We have an installation with 9 inbound voice channels (one is the fax) and 768K data. It is a Hybrid PRI. It terminates into a T100P. It is working great! The cost was better than the POTS plus data. Can I ask what Telephone/Internet service provider you are getting this from? Does anybody else have a setup like this? I, too, would be interested in hearing from what vendor you are getting such a service. JT -- Scanned for viruses and dangerous content at http://www.oneunified.net and is believed to be clean. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
