[Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
Hi All, Googling X100P Clone I found several information about these cards and seems that some winmodem has the same chip used from the original X100P. Here below a list winmodem which should work as X100P clone: 1057 Motorola5608 SM56 PCI Fax Voice ModemE159 Tiger Jet Network Inc0001 Tiger 300/320 PCI interface I boughtone "Trust 56k V92 PCI Internal Modem MD-1100" which has the 1057 Motorola Chip, and I installed it on my linux box. in my /proc/pci list it is recognized like 1057:3052 (Motorola) (rev 4)., IRQ 11, I/O at 0x6c00 [0x6cff] When I try to load the module wcfxo, I cannot load it (zaptel is already loaded): [EMAIL PROTECTED] misc]# modprobe wcfxo/lib/modules/2.4.22/misc/wcfxo.o: init_module: No such deviceHint: insmod errors can be caused by incorrect module parameters, including invalid IO or IRQ parameters. You may find more information in syslog or the output from dmesgmodprobe: insmod /lib/modules/2.4.22/misc/wcfxo.o failedmodprobe: insmod wcfxo failed I cannot undertand if: 1) the message occours because the FXO card use the same IRQ of the VGA card 2) it occurs because the winmodem installed is not a valid FXO card. Some one as experienced this kind of card? Regards MY PCI DEVICES: [EMAIL PROTECTED] root]# cat /proc/pciPCI devices found: Bus 0, device 0, function 0: Host bridge: Intel Corp. 440BX/ZX/DX - 82443BX/ZX/DX Host bridge (rev 3). Master Capable. Latency=64. Prefetchable 32 bit memory at 0xe000 [0xe7ff]. Bus 0, device 1, function 0: PCI bridge: Intel Corp. 440BX/ZX/DX - 82443BX/ZX/DX AGP bridge (rev 3). Master Capable. Latency=64. Min Gnt=129. Bus 0, device 7, function 0: ISA bridge: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ISA (rev 2). Bus 0, device 7, function 1: IDE interface: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 IDE (rev 1). Master Capable. Latency=64. I/O at 0xf000 [0xf00f]. Bus 0, device 7, function 2: USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 USB (rev 1). IRQ 11. Master Capable. Latency=64. I/O at 0x6400 [0x641f]. Bus 0, device 7, function 3: Bridge: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ACPI (rev 2). IRQ 9. Bus 0, device 10, function 0: Ethernet controller: 3Com Corporation 3c590 10BaseT [Vortex] (rev 0). IRQ 10. Master Capable. Latency=248. Min Gnt=3.Max Lat=8. I/O at 0x6800 [0x681f]. Bus 0, device 13, function 0: VGA compatible controller: Matrox Graphics, Inc. MGA 1064SG [Mystique] (rev 2). IRQ 11. Master Capable. Latency=64. Non-prefetchable 32 bit memory at 0xe800 [0xe8003fff]. Prefetchable 32 bit memory at 0xe900 [0xe97f]. Non-prefetchable 32 bit memory at 0xea00 [0xea7f]. Bus 0, device 14, function 0: Modem: PCI device 1057:3052 (Motorola) (rev 4). IRQ 11. Master Capable. Latency=64. Min Gnt=1.Max Lat=62. Non-prefetchable 32 bit memory at 0xeb00 [0xeb000fff]. I/O at 0x6c00 [0x6cff]. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
On March 5, 2005 08:14 am, Androtech wrote: I bought one Trust 56k V92 PCI Internal Modem MD-1100 which has the 1057 Motorola Chip, and I installed it on my linux box. When I try to load the module wcfxo, I cannot load it (zaptel is already loaded): Not to rub salt in the wound, but do you honestly expect the people on a Digium-run mailing list to rush out and help you after you consciously went and bought a clone card? You specifically denied Digium any income on the purchase of this hardware, and now you're asking them for help! You've got a lot of nerve. Caveat Emptor. As far as I'm concerned, you're on your own. If you're not experienced enough to figure this out on your own, you should have purchased the Dev Kit Lite, which comes with support from Digium for specifically these types of problems. Maybe someone else on this list is more forgiving than I am but I really hope not. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
On Sat, 2005-03-05 at 11:01 -0500, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: On March 5, 2005 08:14 am, Androtech wrote: I bought one Trust 56k V92 PCI Internal Modem MD-1100 which has the 1057 Motorola Chip, and I installed it on my linux box. When I try to load the module wcfxo, I cannot load it (zaptel is already loaded): Not to rub salt in the wound, but do you honestly expect the people on a Digium-run mailing list to rush out and help you after you consciously went and bought a clone card? You specifically denied Digium any income on the purchase of this hardware, and now you're asking them for help! You've got a lot of nerve. Caveat Emptor. As far as I'm concerned, you're on your own. If you're not experienced enough to figure this out on your own, you should have purchased the Dev Kit Lite, which comes with support from Digium for specifically these types of problems. Maybe someone else on this list is more forgiving than I am but I really hope not. Just a question, where's the Dev Lite Kit on Digium's site? The PCI Dev kit would give him an FXO and an FXS which may be more than some people want, perhaps the single FXO option could be pushed as this would then be around the same price as the old X100 card and give the same initial connectivity with the possibility of future expansion. -- Dave Cotton [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: On March 5, 2005 08:14 am, Androtech wrote: I bought one "Trust 56k V92 PCI Internal Modem MD-1100" which has the 1057 Motorola Chip, and I installed it on my linux box. When I try to load the module wcfxo, I cannot load it (zaptel is already loaded): Not to rub salt in the wound, but do you honestly expect the people on a Digium-run mailing list to rush out and help you after you consciously went and bought a clone card? You specifically denied Digium any income on the purchase of this hardware, Since Digium no longer suppliers this card, they were denied NOTHING! and now you're asking them for help! You've got a lot of nerve. Caveat Emptor. There is a LOT of traffic on this list about products that are not supplied by Digium. Do you want to exclude those also? Not to mention the 40-50 percent of traffic that does NOTHING to further the project, but is simple carping about this person not being able to find X, or that person is a dumbass because he asked Y. As far as I'm concerned, you're on your own. Ultimately we are ALL on our own. The hardware that Digium DOES supply is poorly supported. John Novack ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
Ummm... This isn't a Digium Run list. This is a Digium sponsored list. My understanding (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that this list *is not* a Digium support list. This list is a forum for Asterisk discussion by users. As such, I would suggest that all topics of discussion for all hardware manufacturers are fair game. If one isn't supposed to talk about clone cards in this forum, then this list should not be called Asterisk Users, it should be called Digium Discussion. Asterisk is an OSS product, and as such should be heavily promoted for use with all products, not just Digium's. If Digium is going to take offence to that, then they shouldn't be OSSing the software. There's plenty of discussion around non Digium hardware on this list. If you're going to get pissed off about people discussing non-Digium hardware then get pissed off about *all* of it, not just the X100P clone cards. Heck, Digium doesn't even make the X100P any more. And it's generally accepted on this list that the TDM cards have problems. So I can't say I blame people for looking for cheap alternatives. In any event, if this is a Digium Only list, then it needs to be identified as such, rather than promoted as an Asterisk list. And if that's the case, then I beg someone to start a non-Digium affilitated list so that we can have free and open discussion without worrying about getting slammed on regards, Paul - Original Message - From: Andrew Kohlsmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one? On March 5, 2005 08:14 am, Androtech wrote: I bought one Trust 56k V92 PCI Internal Modem MD-1100 which has the 1057 Motorola Chip, and I installed it on my linux box. When I try to load the module wcfxo, I cannot load it (zaptel is already loaded): Not to rub salt in the wound, but do you honestly expect the people on a Digium-run mailing list to rush out and help you after you consciously went and bought a clone card? You specifically denied Digium any income on the purchase of this hardware, and now you're asking them for help! You've got a lot of nerve. Caveat Emptor. As far as I'm concerned, you're on your own. If you're not experienced enough to figure this out on your own, you should have purchased the Dev Kit Lite, which comes with support from Digium for specifically these types of problems. Maybe someone else on this list is more forgiving than I am but I really hope not. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
Ummm... This isn't a Digium Run list. This is a Digium sponsored list. My understanding (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that this list *is not* a Digium support list. This list is a forum for Asterisk discussion by users. As such, I would suggest that all topics of discussion for all hardware manufacturers are fair game. Actually the list is maintained/managed by digium (Martin does most of the work, more or less on a part time basis). Really don't care whose servers or networks it might run on, but they are the defacto owners of the list. If one isn't supposed to talk about clone cards in this forum, then this list should not be called Asterisk Users, it should be called Digium Discussion. There seems to be about a half dozen self-appointed list cops, and none of them speak for Mark, digium or asterisk. Several of those are lurking on this list only to find fresh meat to sell their services to. It's obvious who they are. Much easier to config the mail reader to send those to your favorite trash bucket then it is to keep reading their BS day after day. If there really were any official-sponsored restrictions on the list, the words would come from Mark, Digium, etc. Come to think of it, maybe all of us that are fed up with their postings should just forward those back to their email address. Maybe they would get the hint and some manners. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
Rich Adamson wrote: snip There seems to be about a half dozen self-appointed list cops, and none of them speak for Mark, digium or asterisk. Several of those are lurking on this list only to find fresh meat to sell their services to. It's obvious who they are. Indeed. Much easier to config the mail reader to send those to your favorite trash bucket then it is to keep reading their BS day after day. Agreed. They contribute NOTHING! If there really were any official-sponsored restrictions on the list, the words would come from Mark, Digium, etc. Come to think of it, maybe all of us that are fed up with their postings should just forward those back to their email address. Maybe they would get the hint and some manners. Nah! They were never taught any social skills, and it's too late now. John Novack ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: On March 5, 2005 08:14 am, Androtech wrote: I bought one Trust 56k V92 PCI Internal Modem MD-1100 which has the 1057 Motorola Chip, and I installed it on my linux box. When I try to load the module wcfxo, I cannot load it (zaptel is already loaded): Not to rub salt in the wound, but do you honestly expect the people on a Digium-run mailing list to rush out and help you after you consciously went and bought a clone card? You specifically denied Digium any income on the purchase of this hardware, and now you're asking them for help! You've got a lot of nerve. Caveat Emptor. As far as I'm concerned, you're on your own. If you're not experienced enough to figure this out on your own, you should have purchased the Dev Kit Lite, which comes with support from Digium for specifically these types of problems. Maybe someone else on this list is more forgiving than I am but I really hope not. Funny thing is that it was the digium website that first led me to the asterisk website and then on this page: http://www.asterisk.org/index.php?menu=hardware I found the link to the X100P clone card. Some searching led me to a vendor where I got 6 of these with shipping fro about $56 total. I got them for experimentation. I am actually hoping that Digium will develop a standalone FXO-IAX2 adaptor someday. I like external standalone stuff because I don't like shutting down servers and removing the covers too much. Anyway, I don't feel guilty at all. I will buy any G.729 licenses I need from them. If they don't ever do a standalone fxo device, I will probably create one using a mini-ITX mainboard and their 4-port card. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
On March 5, 2005 12:22 pm, Rich Adamson wrote: There seems to be about a half dozen self-appointed list cops, and none of them speak for Mark, digium or asterisk. Several of those are lurking on this list only to find fresh meat to sell their services to. It's obvious who they are. I have *never* claimed to speak for Digium. Actually I don't think any of the self appointed list cops do. If you can provide me with archive URLs that prove otherwise I'd be surprised. And I also don't think that any of us self appointed list cops actively solicit our services. Again, if you'll care to peruse the list archives you'll find I am very helpful on this list, just as you are. If I was out to make a killing with Asterisk consulting I wouldn't do that, so your argument fails on this point. As I'm not subscribed to asterisk-biz I think that's an even further failure of that point. I think it comes down to tolerances. Some days I am far less tolerant than others when it comes to people who just don't want to put forward any effort. Today was particularly bad and if I was a smarter person, would probably refrain from reading the list at all. I don't always self-regulate so well, and this particular thread's a good example. Perhaps I was a little harsh when I said I hoped that nobody would help this guy out. In fact, I know I was, and I do apologize for that. I do not, however, apologize for saying if he's not able to solve these kinds of problems that he should be buying Digium hardware. When you buy outside you are on your own, and buying a clone X100P is particularly bad for this since there are so many different PCI IDs. Whether the X100P is available from Digium or not is irrelavent, there are solutions Digium has that would solve this guy's particular problem, support Digium *and* enable him to obtain support which was included in the cost of the hardware. Is it as cheap as a $20 clone X100P without its PCI ID in the driver? Hell no, but he would have functioning hardware. How much is his time worth? Digium (well Mark, but he *is* Digium) has provided the PCI IDs of several of the popular clones in the driver already. It seems our original poster either didn't buy one that was compatible, or it's even more out there than the clones Mark's already added support for. Again -- I wonder if it still feels like such a shit-hot deal. Either way -- he's gone and done his research and is stuck. I personally won't help him out of this jam, but others, perhaps even you, will. Aside: I find it an interesting datapoint that you (and everyone else, but you in particular) would reply to this thread to bitch about me rather than giving this guy his solution, especially since I'm so wrong in berating him. Much easier to config the mail reader to send those to your favorite trash bucket then it is to keep reading their BS day after day. Feel free to do so, it won't affect me in any way shape or form. If there really were any official-sponsored restrictions on the list, the words would come from Mark, Digium, etc. Totally agreed. Come to think of it, maybe all of us that are fed up with their postings should just forward those back to their email address. Maybe they would get the hint and some manners. I have plenty of manners, but sometimes I forget them and say stupid things like I did to the original poster. Further, I'm sure you'd know that any kind of stupid auto-reply like that would just escalate into an auto-reply-reply (I'm not beneath tit-for-tat if you care to play that game) and just continue until both of us had our mail filters tuned up so well that we'd just ignore each other's immature flooding, and our auto-repliers would end up wasting the available bandwidth between us, essentially proving nothing. :-) Just in case you missed it, I am sorry that I wrote that I hope that nobody helps this guy. I stand behind my other points in the original email, though. Clone/alternative hardware can work great, but if it doesn't you find yourself in this guy's shoes. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
On March 5, 2005 11:01 am, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: specifically these types of problems. Maybe someone else on this list is more forgiving than I am but I really hope not. I apologize for this remark. I still do feel, though, that if you're this new to asterisk that you should have purchased hardware which offered support from Digium. Once your system is up and running and you have some experience under your belt, feel free to be as cheap as you like. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
On March 5, 2005 11:57 am, Dave Cotton wrote: Just a question, where's the Dev Lite Kit on Digium's site? I meant Dev Kit and you're right, it's an FXO and FXS on the carrier card. US$195. The PCI Dev kit would give him an FXO and an FXS which may be more than some people want, perhaps the single FXO option could be pushed as this would then be around the same price as the old X100 card and give the same initial connectivity with the possibility of future expansion. Agreed. A TDM400P with 1 FXO would run him US$133 at the Yahoo! store, and perhaps cheaper if he can find one on Ebay. Still not as cheap as the (I'm guessing $20) winmodem that doesn't work, but is the $113 he saved worth it? -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
On March 5, 2005 12:02 pm, John Novack wrote: Since Digium no longer suppliers this card, they were denied NOTHING! They offer comparable hardware. TDM410P is $113. There is a LOT of traffic on this list about products that are not supplied by Digium. Do you want to exclude those also? The Sangoma guys typically handle support for their own product, even on this list. Atacomm's card hasn't hit the market yet. The Sipura people sell hardware that Digium doesn't have similar hardware for. I guess my specific beef was that he spent the time to research clone cards, bought one and is now asking for help solving his problem where if he just bought the Digium hardware he'd be up and running. He's not stupid, and I'm willing to bet he's quite the opposite. Not to mention the 40-50 percent of traffic that does NOTHING to further the project, but is simple carping about this person not being able to find X, or that person is a dumbass because he asked Y. Feel free to modify your mail filters to adjust the reality to your liking. I've already apologized for my remark about hoping nobody'd help him. I still feel my point stands. And if nobody's going to educate the newbies, then how will they ever learn? Do you believe in letting your children do whatever they want, too? There are 'defacto' rules for any system. No, I don't have my shiny ListCoptm badge and I'm not, nor have I ever claimed to, speak on behalf of Digium or anyone else. I'm taking time to try and educate people on what I perceive as normal and proper list ettiquette. Not everyone agrees with me, this I will admit. However most people do, and that's why lists are how they are. You can easily see that I spend a great deal of time not only here but also on IRC helping people out. Sometimes, like my original reply to this thread, I go overboard, but I generally have the decency to apologize. Maybe you don't agree but I feel that my contributions to this list far outweigh what I detract from it. You take the good with the bad. Ultimately we are ALL on our own. The hardware that Digium DOES supply is poorly supported. I've generally had nothing but good support from Digium. Now mind you I haven't had all that many problems with their hardware, so YMMV. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
- Original Message - There is a LOT of traffic on this list about products that are not supplied by Digium. Do you want to exclude those also? The Sangoma guys typically handle support for their own product, even on this list. Atacomm's card hasn't hit the market yet. The Sipura people sell hardware that Digium doesn't have similar hardware for. Very true, but I guess the point I'm trying to make is that whether or not Digium supports or runs this list, my understanding is that this list isn't intended to be a Digium hardware support forum, it's intended to be a general Asterisk Users Discussion forum. I would never expect someone to call up Digium's support channels and expect to get support for setting up a clone card. But this isn't Digium Support. The guy wasn't asking Digium to help solve his problem, he was asking 'people who use Asterisk' to help solve his problem. I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of people reading this list who have at least one clone card sitting in a server at home. It's a Users Discussion. ie. People who use Asterisk converge here to talk about Asterisk in all it's forms. Whether or not Digium runs/supports the list is beside the point. I don't really disagree with you about the cost factor - often times the pain saved by buying a $125 device is worth the extra money. However, not everyone has that luxury. While some of us (myself included) prefer to simply fix the problem by throwing money at it, a lot of people use Linux and OSS products not only because it interests them but because they're scraping out a living that doesn't let them work on anything more than the hand-me-down hardware that they've coersed off of the various people they've helped over the years, and they spend the time making it all work because time is what they've got - not money. regards, Paul ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
And if nobody's going to educate the newbies, then how will they ever learn? Do you believe in letting your children do whatever they want, too? There are 'defacto' rules for any system. No, I don't have my shiny ListCoptm There is a difference when you are that childs father or mother but you are neither? Do you stop people in the street when you see them doing things wrong and try and tell them you shouldn't be doing it like that, this is how you should do it. I hope not :) Essentially this list is the same. There are lots of very helpful people, keen to provide help and enthusiasm to new asterisk people, then there are those who seem to have so much time on there hands they have to reply to every newbies question telling them to go and look at google before asking that here! badge and I'm not, nor have I ever claimed to, speak on behalf of Digium or anyone else. I'm taking time to try and educate people on what I perceive as normal and proper list ettiquette. Not everyone agrees with me, this I will admit. However most people do, and that's why lists are how they are. And how exactly is that? Mike ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
On Sat, 2005-03-05 at 19:30 +, Mike Dent wrote: And if nobody's going to educate the newbies, then how will they ever learn? Do you believe in letting your children do whatever they want, too? There are 'defacto' rules for any system. No, I don't have my shiny ListCoptm There is a difference when you are that childs father or mother but you are neither? Seems shop owners don't mind telling a person how to behave or leave. Any time you are in an enclosed space, people attempt to enforce rules. Do you stop people in the street when you see them doing things wrong and try and tell them you shouldn't be doing it like that, this is how you should do it. I hope not :) Essentially this list is the same. While you may not stop people who haven't asked for help, but once you enter a public forum and request the help you need to be following the rules or at the least be respectful of those willing to give the help. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
Mike Dent wrote: And if nobody's going to educate the newbies, then how will they ever learn? Do you believe in letting your children do whatever they want, too? There are 'defacto' rules for any system. No, I don't have my shiny ListCoptm There is a difference when you are that childs father or mother but you are neither? Do you stop people in the street when you see them doing things wrong and try and tell them you shouldn't be doing it like that, this is how you should do it. I hope not :) Essentially this list is the same. There are lots of very helpful people, keen to provide help and enthusiasm to new asterisk people, then there are those who seem to have so much time on there hands they have to reply to every newbies question telling them to go and look at google before asking that here! Maybe one of the free web-based forum packages will eventually offer an elitist or impatient mode. Before you can post, you do the required reading and pass online exams. The idea is to weed out people who think README is just another geek buzzword. You have to know what a FAQ is and you have to know what RTFM means. Most of those people who tend to scold every newbie are probably elitist pretenders. If they were truly elite, they would be too busy to read and reply to such posts. Of course some of us are just impatient, regardless of our skill level. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
On March 5, 2005 02:30 pm, Mike Dent wrote: There is a difference when you are that childs father or mother but you are neither? You have a point, but... (read on) Do you stop people in the street when you see them doing things wrong and try and tell them you shouldn't be doing it like that, this is how you should do it. I hope not :) Essentially this list is the same. It's not the same at all -- Random people in the street aren't in a forum asking for help. If you're making a ruckus in a public library I can and have asked if you could tone it down, as it's a library and there are certain de-facto rules which the majority of people adhere to. c.f. for movie theatres, bars, strip clubs, sports avenues, etc. There are lots of very helpful people, keen to provide help and enthusiasm to new asterisk people, then there are those who seem to have so much time on there hands they have to reply to every newbies question telling them to go and look at google before asking that here! I implore you to go do some of this research yourself before trying to paint me with a certain brush. This thread aside, what percentage of my posts to -users are helpful, and what percentage are for educating newbies in ettiquette? Finally, what percentage are me just out-and-out flaming a newbie? Perhaps it's just my rants that seem to catch your eye? And how exactly is that? A generally helpful forum for people WHO HAVE SHOWED A MODICUM OF RESEARCH to obtain assistance in setting up, running and diagnosing problems with their Asterisk installations. Without some form of rules or policing as you want to call it, this forum would not be as effective as it is. I think where the problem comes in is that people take this forum to be asterisk-biz half the time. I need X done **RIGHT NOW**!! I DEMAND HELP!! -- take it to -biz, there are dozens if not hundreds of consultants who will happily exchange money for experience. This forum is for people who want to learn. Really really want to learn, not just gesticulate the intention. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
On March 5, 2005 02:46 pm, Paul wrote: Maybe one of the free web-based forum packages will eventually offer an elitist or impatient mode. Before you can post, you do the required reading and pass online exams. The idea is to weed out people who think README is just another geek buzzword. You have to know what a FAQ is and you have to know what RTFM means. That wouldn't help. If you're unwilling to learn, then this list isn't for you. Plain and simple. OSS grows when people learn. Most of those people who tend to scold every newbie are probably elitist pretenders. If they were truly elite, they would be too busy to read and reply to such posts. Of course some of us are just impatient, regardless of our skill level. Believe what you want, and I'l continue using my Asterisk servers and providing service to my customers. As I mentioned to another poster, feel free to manipulate your MUA's filters to adjust reality to your liking. FWIW, I think only the truly elite possess the time to help out others, since the elitist pretenders are too busy fiddling with their systems and trying to get them to work properly to be able to help. :-) -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
Well, considering I'm on topic, I shouldn't get flamed to badly for this. I have a bunch of these working well in my home experiments: http://www.laptops4me.com/product_info.php/products_id/1444 And yes that price is correct and they do arrive. :) Not everyone can justify buying the supported hardware to kick the tires and try it out * at home. On the commercial side support is worth every penny I'm sure. However I think it helps the community to have low cost entry options for people to learn. I know it helped me. -James ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
- Original Message - From: Andrew Kohlsmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think where the problem comes in is that people take this forum to be asterisk-biz half the time. I need X done **RIGHT NOW**!! I DEMAND HELP!! -- take it to -biz, there are dozens if not hundreds of consultants who will happily exchange money for experience. This forum is for people who want to Geepers man. Looking at the last couple of times you tried to 'educate' someone, I don't see anything in their messages that sound like I need X done **RIGHT NOW**!! I DEMAND HELP!!. Uneducated and demanding are not necessarily the same thing. Whatever, we're just going around in endless circles here. I'll get out of this discussion now and leave it up to those who wish to continue it regards, Paul ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: On March 5, 2005 02:46 pm, Paul wrote: Maybe one of the free web-based forum packages will eventually offer an elitist or impatient mode. Before you can post, you do the required reading and pass online exams. The idea is to weed out people who think README is just another geek buzzword. You have to know what a FAQ is and you have to know what RTFM means. That wouldn't help. If you're unwilling to learn, then this list isn't for you. Plain and simple. OSS grows when people learn. I was merely attempting to be sarcastically humorous. Most of those people who tend to scold every newbie are probably elitist pretenders. If they were truly elite, they would be too busy to read and reply to such posts. Of course some of us are just impatient, regardless of our skill level. Believe what you want, and I'l continue using my Asterisk servers and providing service to my customers. As I mentioned to another poster, feel free to manipulate your MUA's filters to adjust reality to your liking. FWIW, I think only the truly elite possess the time to help out others, since the elitist pretenders are too busy fiddling with their systems and trying to get them to work properly to be able to help. :-) FWIW - some of us have paying customers and helping them takes absolute over helping newbies who won't try to help themselves first. Some of them actually are capable of reading and studying the information already out there, but they are also selfish and lazy. A good illustration of this attitude happened last week: I had 3 paid technicicians who didn't have enough common sense to pick up a phone and listen for modem tone when a customer had problems with a dedicated dialup. The customer had neglected to pay the long distance carrier. Do you think the majority of us want to babysit people like this for free? ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
On March 5, 2005 04:57 pm, Paul wrote: FWIW - some of us have paying customers and helping them takes absolute over helping newbies who won't try to help themselves first. Some of them actually are capable of reading and studying the information already out there, but they are also selfish and lazy. paying customer == entitled to support. A good illustration of this attitude happened last week: I had 3 paid technicicians who didn't have enough common sense to pick up a phone and listen for modem tone when a customer had problems with a dedicated dialup. The customer had neglected to pay the long distance carrier. Do you think the majority of us want to babysit people like this for free? I can't tell if you're on my side of this debate or not, because you sure sound like it. :-) -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
On March 5, 2005 04:49 pm, Paul Fielding wrote: Geepers man. Looking at the last couple of times you tried to 'educate' someone, I don't see anything in their messages that sound like I need X done **RIGHT NOW**!! I DEMAND HELP!!. Uneducated and demanding are not necessarily the same thing. The thread moved to a more general bitch and moan, I agree. I guess it can be satated a little differently. Willfuly ignorant and ignorant are two very different things. I'll gladly help the latter if they show they are willing to overcome their ignorance. The former I'll reply with a rate sheet. Whatever, we're just going around in endless circles here. I'll get out of this discussion now and leave it up to those who wish to continue it heh, come on, this was just getting settled! :-) -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: I can't tell if you're on my side of this debate or not, because you sure sound like it. :-) I'm on my side and always on the side of the serious and earnest end user. I live in a sparsely populated rural area. Most of the locals can't afford to pay for computer help. I have told several of them that I am willing to give free classes as long as somebody volunteers to do the announcements and all that. Problem is that nobody is interested enough to give some of their own time. I mean I am even willing to do this at my own facilities and throw in free coffee. I would cover topics like protecting their wintel boxes from virus and other threats and FOSS for win32. The local school district offers paid continuing education classes that focus on things that most of these people can't afford like MS-Office. I would love the opportunity to show more win users things like openoffice and firefox. So I am willing to give one evening a week to help others but that's not good enough. They want to be able to call me anytime of day for free advice. Same thing applies to some of the people seeking help on lists like this. I think it is reasonable to expect people to RTFM before they start asking for help. The only exception I make is for pay or for a good cause. I should mention that I did two infected PC cleanups for locals last week. I don't even try to find them but somehow they find me. Both were so badly hosed that I just pulled the hard drive and mounted it on a linux box to make a copy of everything, then reinstalled win XP from scratch. I only charged $120 for this. Both customers would have benefited from a free class in how not to get the PC infected. Neither of them are the type that would be willing to do anything like posting flyers in order to make such a free class happen. No guilt here. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
Most of those people who tend to scold every newbie are probably elitist pretenders. If they were truly elite, they would be too busy to read and reply to such posts. Of course some of us are just impatient, regardless of our skill level. Very well said! Now back to helping those that need it. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Clone, Which one?
I think it comes down to tolerances. Some days I am far less tolerant than others when it comes to people who just don't want to put forward any effort. Today was particularly bad and if I was a smarter person, would probably refrain from reading the list at all. I don't always self-regulate so well, and this particular thread's a good example. Okay, so paste a little sticky note on your monitor as a reminder. It really would help the noise level a bunch by simply ignoring some of the posts instead of ranting over and over about research, etc. The rants don't really do any good; you've been around the list long enough to know that. Perhaps I was a little harsh when I said I hoped that nobody would help this guy out. Okay, lets all get back to helping out where we can. Rich ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
