subject:"\[asterisk\-users\] is g729 codec free\? or under license\?\?\?"

Re: [asterisk-users] is g729 codec free? or under license???

2014-04-09 Thread Tzafrir Cohen

On Wed, Apr 09, 2014 at 10:19:59AM +0800, Steve Underwood wrote:
 Hi Jeff,
 
 On 04/08/2014 12:13 PM, Jeff Brower wrote:
 Darrel- The G729 essential patents were *granted* in 1996, but
 applied for prior to June 8 1995. That means their lifespan is
 either 20 years from their application date, or 17 years from
 their grant date, whichever is greater
 (http://www.uspto.gov/main/faq/p120013.htm). Either way, they
 expire in 2014. -Jeff
 Where did you get the cutoff date of June 8 1995, and how does 20
 years from that date lead to the last of the patents expiring in
 2014? Nobody uses G.729. They use G.729A. The G.729A spec is
 somewhat later than the original G.729, but I don't know if there
 are any additional patents which specifically relate to Annex A. You
 could use G.729 instead, but it roughly doubles the compute needed.

If it allows me to avoid the trolls: I'll pay that performance hit. In
many caces there are CPU cycles to spare. But the licensing is a hard
limit.

 
 There are various things on the web saying the last of the patents
 on G.723.1, which was around in draft form long before G.729,
 expires in 2014. However, there seem to be patents related to that
 codec which don't really expire until some time in 2015. Its really
 hard to find solid information. The ITU patent database rarely
 identifies the actual patents being claimed, so its damned hard to
 look them up.

Nice.

-- 
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http://www.xorcom.com

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Re: [asterisk-users] is g729 codec free? or under license???

2014-04-09 Thread Steve Underwood


On 04/09/2014 06:54 PM, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:

On Wed, Apr 09, 2014 at 10:19:59AM +0800, Steve Underwood wrote:

Hi Jeff,

On 04/08/2014 12:13 PM, Jeff Brower wrote:

Darrel- The G729 essential patents were *granted* in 1996, but
applied for prior to June 8 1995. That means their lifespan is
either 20 years from their application date, or 17 years from
their grant date, whichever is greater
(http://www.uspto.gov/main/faq/p120013.htm). Either way, they
expire in 2014. -Jeff

Where did you get the cutoff date of June 8 1995, and how does 20
years from that date lead to the last of the patents expiring in
2014? Nobody uses G.729. They use G.729A. The G.729A spec is
somewhat later than the original G.729, but I don't know if there
are any additional patents which specifically relate to Annex A. You
could use G.729 instead, but it roughly doubles the compute needed.

If it allows me to avoid the trolls: I'll pay that performance hit. In
many caces there are CPU cycles to spare. But the licensing is a hard
limit.
Well, you do get the benefit of higher quality for your extra compute. 
G.729 sounds distinctly better than G.729A on a lot of material.

There are various things on the web saying the last of the patents
on G.723.1, which was around in draft form long before G.729,
expires in 2014. However, there seem to be patents related to that
codec which don't really expire until some time in 2015. Its really
hard to find solid information. The ITU patent database rarely
identifies the actual patents being claimed, so its damned hard to
look them up.

Nice.


Regards,
Steve


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Re: [asterisk-users] is g729 codec free? or under license???

2014-04-08 Thread Steve Underwood


Hi Jeff,

On 04/08/2014 12:13 PM, Jeff Brower wrote:
Darrel- The G729 essential patents were *granted* in 1996, but applied 
for prior to June 8 1995. That means their lifespan is either 20 years 
from their application date, or 17 years from their grant date, 
whichever is greater (http://www.uspto.gov/main/faq/p120013.htm). 
Either way, they expire in 2014. -Jeff 
Where did you get the cutoff date of June 8 1995, and how does 20 years 
from that date lead to the last of the patents expiring in 2014? Nobody 
uses G.729. They use G.729A. The G.729A spec is somewhat later than the 
original G.729, but I don't know if there are any additional patents 
which specifically relate to Annex A. You could use G.729 instead, but 
it roughly doubles the compute needed.


There are various things on the web saying the last of the patents on 
G.723.1, which was around in draft form long before G.729, expires in 
2014. However, there seem to be patents related to that codec which 
don't really expire until some time in 2015. Its really hard to find 
solid information. The ITU patent database rarely identifies the actual 
patents being claimed, so its damned hard to look them up.


Regards,
Steve

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Re: [asterisk-users] is g729 codec free? or under license???

2014-04-07 Thread Jeff Brower

Darryl Moore darryl at moores.ca writes:

 
 
 I'll explain.
 
 The g.729 compression algorithm is not protected by copyright, though
 specific instances may be. It is protected by a patent.
 
 http://www.sipro.com/G-729.html
 
 An open source version is available here:
 
 http://asterisk.hosting.lv/
 
 What stops you from using this, or even your own implementation isn't
 copyright, but patent protection. It is the right to use the patented
 technology that you are licensing, not the particular copyrighted coded
 that implements it.
 
 Here you will find the various G.729 patents which were all granted in
 1996.
 
 https://www.itu.int/ITU-T/recommendations/related_ps.aspx?id_prod=3334
 
 I had thought these expired next year because I was thinking patents
 were only 18 years. Turns out they are now 20 years, so they really do
 not expire til some time in 2016. My bad.
 
 So in countries that honour software patents, you need to have a license
 until some time in 2016. In countries which do not, you are free to use
 these open source codes now.
 
 cheers.

Darrel-

The G729 essential patents were *granted* in 1996, but applied for prior to
June 8 1995.  That means their lifespan is either 20 years from their
application date, or 17 years from their grant date, whichever is greater
(http://www.uspto.gov/main/faq/p120013.htm).

Either way, they expire in 2014.

-Jeff


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Re: [asterisk-users] is g729 codec free? or under license???

2013-10-14 Thread s m

thanks Asghar, but are you sure? my two endpoints -which are soft-phones-
have g729 codec but my asterisk on middle system has not any module for
g729 codec. i think i should get module g729 for my middle system in order
to pass calls with g729 codec. isn't it true?

On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Asghar Mohammad asghar...@gmail.comwrote:

HI,
You don't need a g729 installed in pass throw mode. if both ends have
codec g729 you can just enable on both peers.
and asterisk should pass the codec from 1 end to other.
but make sure you are not doing transcoding of any type answering the call
playing voice prompts etc.

On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 9:52 AM, s m sam.gh1...@gmail.com wrote:

thank you everybody for your useful replies and so sorry to answer late.

i understand what i need. first of all, i wanna to use pass through g729
codec (which is free). so i go to http://asterisk.hosting.lv/ to get
g729 codec. i have freebsd 8.2 and asterisk 1.8.22 but there is no
compatible codec for Xeon Intel in the list. it means that i can't use
codec g729 on my system??? or can i use codec for another type of hardware
for my system? anyone has any experience?

thanks in advance
SAM

On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 5:04 PM, John Novack
jnov...@stromberg-carlson.org wrote:

Darryl Moore wrote:

Thank you Steve, and I read a bit more on the web on this subject
including your own well reasoned page at
http://www.soft-switch.org/**patents/index.htmlhttp://www.soft-switch.org/patents/index.html

However, despite wide acceptance of the patentability of such codecs
(unfortunately), whether they are in fact software patents or not
appears to be a matter of opinion. The FSF and Fedora both refer to
codec patents as being software patents.

http://endsoftpatents.org/**2011/02/usa-patent-reform-not-**enough/http://endsoftpatents.org/2011/02/usa-patent-reform-not-enough/
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/**Software_Patentshttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Software_Patents

A quick google search of both terms will show that there are a great
many people who see codec patents as software patents, so I don't think
I am alone there.

snip

Law is ALWAYS open to interpretation, so that is not surprising.
See if you can get any lawyer, and especially a patent attorney, to give
you a definitive answer! You will not get one.
Seldom will you ever get an eggspurt legal opinion Any good lawyer
will tell you maybe, or if there is any doubt don't do it!
Law is not precisely measurable. No meter or O'scope to assist here.
Any A**hole can sue anyone for the filing fee, and the results are up to
the opinion of a judge or jury.
The lawyers want it that way, so it isn't ever going to be any different.

John Novack

Dog is my Co-pilot

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Re: [asterisk-users] is g729 codec free? or under license???

2013-10-14 Thread A J Stiles

On Saturday 12 October 2013, s m wrote:
 i have freebsd 8.2 and asterisk 1.8.22 but there is no compatible
 codec for Xeon Intel in the list. it means that i can't use codec g729 on
 my system??? or can i use codec for another type of hardware for my system?
 anyone has any experience?

Xeon is amd64  (except older ones, which are ia32).  But I would always advise 
anyone just to get the Source Code -- which is for *all* architectures -- and 
build it themselves.

-- 
AJS

Answers come *after* questions.

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Re: [asterisk-users] is g729 codec free? or under license???

2013-10-14 Thread Tony Mountifield

In article caa_1sggvs-i_swslx77kgc3md1pre9br_s9vfxz-ryd_cqs...@mail.gmail.com,
s m sam.gh1...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 thanks Asghar, but are you sure? my two endpoints -which are soft-phones-
 have g729 codec but my asterisk on middle system has not any module for
 g729 codec. i think i should get module g729 for my middle system in order
 to pass calls with g729 codec. isn't it true?

No, it's not. Asterisk can pass G.729 frames transparently from one endpoint
to another without using a codec.

However, that does limit the functionality of Asterisk a bit.

Asterisk does need the G.729 codec any time it needs to understand the
contents of a G.729 frame, in order to do any of these:

1. Play a sound (unless you have installed the g729-format sounds).
2. Save voicemail (unless you have configured voicemail ONLY to save g729 
format).
3. Detect in-band DTMF (you should be using RFC2833 instead of inband anyway).
4. Meetme or Confbridge conferencing (needs to convert to linear in order to 
mix).
5. Play music on hold (unless you have installed only g729-format music).
6. Bridge a call to a device that cannot do G.729 format or a non-VoIP channel.

There may be others I haven't thought of.

So I guess if you have only G.729-capable devices, a G.729-capable SIP trunk,
install the G.729 sounds and music and configure the system correctly, the
only thing you can't do is conferencing.

However, I don't see any real need to use G.729 unless you are severely limited
on network bandwidth. It seems to be a solution to a historical problem that
has largely gone away nowadays. You will get better quality with G.711 at least.

Cheers
Tony
-- 
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Work: t...@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: t...@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org

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Re: [asterisk-users] is g729 codec free? or under license???

2013-10-14 Thread Asghar Mohammad

Hi,
no you don't need just allow g729 on both peers or allow all on both peers
and enable only g729 on softphones.
my asterisk in middle don't have g729 and g723.1 on my asterisk but my
both end point have these codecs i just allowed the codes and it works
perfectly.

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:21 AM, s m sam.gh1...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Asghar Mohammad asghar...@gmail.comwrote:

On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 9:52 AM, s m sam.gh1...@gmail.com wrote:

thank you everybody for your useful replies and so sorry to answer late.

thanks in advance
SAM

On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 5:04 PM, John Novack
jnov...@stromberg-carlson.org wrote:

Darryl Moore wrote:

Thank you Steve, and I read a bit more on the web on this subject
including your own well reasoned page at
http://www.soft-switch.org/**patents/index.htmlhttp://www.soft-switch.org/patents/index.html

A quick google search of both terms will show that there are a great
many people who see codec patents as software patents, so I don't think
I am alone there.

snip

Law is ALWAYS open to interpretation, so that is not surprising.
See if you can get any lawyer, and especially a patent attorney, to
give you a definitive answer! You will not get one.
Seldom will you ever get an eggspurt legal opinion Any good lawyer
will tell you maybe, or if there is any doubt don't do it!
Law is not precisely measurable. No meter or O'scope to assist here.
Any A**hole can sue anyone for the filing fee, and the results are up
to the opinion of a judge or jury.
The lawyers want it that way, so it isn't ever going to be any
different.