Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
On 6 Nov 2003, at 04:32, Tilghman Lesher wrote: OK, let me get this straight. Because the Asterisk voicemail menu is fault tolerant and lets you undo a delete, it's therefore unacceptable. I don't think the OP said it was unacceptable, just that it wasn't as configurable as they would like and they considered that a con. I can sympathise - the voicemail system is complicated. I can punch through all the messages in my mobile phone voicemail with three keys. 1 plays the message again, 2 saves it, 3 deletes it. If I save or delete a message it automatically advances to the next one. In comparison, the Asterisk voicemail program is a dog. Having complex functionality is fine as long as the basic functionality isn't made obscure. And before you accuse me of being unable to handle moderately complex systems as well. The point the OP was making is that it's not *configurable* not that it's too hard. If I choose to have a simpler system - or more importantly choose for all the users at an installation to have a simpler system - I can't do that. Jonathan ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
Steve Underwood wrote: And is not based on any standards! 100% of all voicemail systems are not based on standards. There *are* no standards for voicemail. There aren't even many common practices. The From the SER admin's manual: --- 5.3. Voicemail 5.3.1. Introduction The voicemail system provides ser with voice announcement and recording capabilities. Voice messages may then be mailed to the called user. The system relies on ser for ' implementing the SIP stack and communicate with it through FIFO. It implements the dialog and media handling as described in RFC 3264 (An Offer/Answer Model with the Session Description Protocol) and RFC 1889 (Real time transport protocol) to realize its goal. I don't know what RFC 3264 is, but surely Asterisk Voicemail supports RTP ;-) Otherwise, all I can think of is suggestions to use IMAP for voicemail message stores. There's been some work within the IETF for voice profiles for Internet Mail. http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/vpim-charter.html From the charter: --- The Voice Profile for Internet Mail (VPIM) Version 2 is currently a Proposed Standard (RFC 2421) Applicability Statement. It is an application of Internet Mail originally intended for sending voice messages between voice messaging systems. As such, VPIM imposes several restrictions on the message and transport to support the characteristics of voice messaging. Many voice mail vendors have implemented systems according to RFC 2421 and are in the process of deploying these systems around the world. Most vendors have completed (or are currently involved in) interoperability testing of VPIM products and have posted their results on the VPIM website. This working group will promote the advancement of VPIM v2 on the standards track. /O ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
Steve Underwood wrote: 96% uptime would mean nearly 4 hours per month down. I have never experiemced anything that bad using the nastiest crappiest no-name server parts. unless you want to make a point, like some authors do. Then you say the hard disk failed and it took a week to get and install a new ones, so the downtime was 24x7 hours. In reality, if your service support doesn't stock all the important bits for quick replacement, it provides no service at all. I have typically found Linux and even SCO Openserver on x86 servers have better up time than the fully redundant machines from Stratus. Their hardware may not fall over, but their OS does. When it does it takes 1 to 2 hours to reboot. Regards, Steve Steve, Like I said this was from memory and so may have been inacurate.. I probably should have looked it up before hand.. As it turns out it should probably have been 99.6% availablility.. A quick look on Google came up with the following details.. http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/power/en/ps1q02_graham?c=uscs=555l=ens=biz Sorry for any stress caused.. Later.. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
And before you accuse me of being unable to handle moderately complex systems as well. The point the OP was making is that it's not *configurable* not that it's too hard. If I choose to have a simpler system - or more importantly choose for all the users at an installation to have a simpler system - I can't do that. Yeah, there was talk a while back about the whole user interface thing for Comedian Mail and especially how it works compared to other systems, what could be done to make migration easier for the users etc. There were some good threads, check the archives, but chances are not much has changed. I guess you could write your own voicemail system, use AGI or dive headlong in to changing the existing Voicemail2 app if you're in to the C thing. Ultimately it would be really nice if there was an Asterisk flavoured voicemail that could also be totally configured the way you want it, including a bunch of sample configs for other legacy voicemail systems, Octel, Meridian Mail etc.. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 20:41, Peter Brown wrote: Gavin, So you want a few reasons why you shouldn't use asterisk, I can think of some: Don't want to use a reliable operating system (linux) [...] Is this sufficient Gavin? grin Nice one - I'm already a strong Open-Source pedant, and our business is built on Apache/Perl/MySQL, etc. I'm quite aware of these points (most of them are already included in my 'Pros' section)... this was really only to try and pre-empt the kinds of questions the mgmt will ask, and I can't produce a recommendation without enev mentioning the 'bad points' :) Cheers, Gavin. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 20:47, Steven Critchfield wrote: On a PSTN connection though, you get the problem of physical interfaces. Yes, I have often wondered about this - if we have a single RJ45 connector from the PRI to the Digium Wildcard, how can we deal with the failure of the main * box without needing to manually move the cable to the other machine? While it was recently mentioned that there is a device for T1 interfaces to fail over in the case of alarm, and this could allow a new machine to pick up and deal with calls from the PSTN. OK.. so you're talking about a 'PRI switch' that only passes data through to one of the PBXs on the other side... I wonder how such a switch is informed of which PBX to use? Heartbeat via serial/LAN? From both machines I'd imagine? Of course as I think back, The Intertel hardware our sister company was installing didn't have any HA features. Just curious - since the HA will be a major plus-point for us - the Inter-Tel Axxess system we currently use has had fairly appalling results and regular failures. Of course, neither our PBX reseller will admit their hardware is faulty, nor will the phone company admit there is any fault on the PRI.. yet we still experience downtime and lost business. At least with * we can see line errors ourselves. I wouldn't consider this a CON so much as a classification of what is possible to do. I doubt the hardware the person who started this thread has has any HA features built into it right now. Amen to that, and it's the reason why I believe * to be the right choice for us simply due to the flexibility it leaves us with.. one enormous server with full Linux HA - or two decent machines, each with their own PRIs... Cheers, Gavin. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
Hi! Yeah, there was talk a while back about the whole user interface thing for Comedian Mail and especially how it works compared to other systems, what could be done to make migration easier for the users etc. There were some good threads, check the archives, but chances are not much has changed. See what's coming up in voicemail at any time now: http://bugs.digium.com/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=156 This patch adds several enhanced features to Comedian Mail. These features include: - Recording options: cancel and call operator - End-of-recording options: accept, review, re-record - Maintenance options: removal of short and silent messages - Advanced options: call back, reply, envelope, outcall - Temporary greetings - Navigation options: jump to first/last message - Access options: log into mailbox during greeting ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
-- Original Message -- From: Tilghman Lesher [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wednesday 05 November 2003 18:41, Ariel Batista wrote: and the biggest one I feel is a major problem! 5) Voicemail can not be configured unless you re program it yourself. And is not based on any standards! I'm curious as to what you find unconfigurable in Voicemail. I'm also wondering if you have an RFC for voicemail in mind (for standardization). What the major problem is folders and how they work! Also once you get into the folders the prompts will not play to what to do with them. You have to pick advanced options to know what the other keys do! You can not move around fast and if you press the wrong key it will undelete the message and it puts it in the old messages folder. Users then complain that there light is still flashing. Most other voicemail system if you delete the message it moves to the next! And you can configure it not to have delete folder and old folders. OK, let me get this straight. Because the Asterisk voicemail menu is fault tolerant and lets you undo a delete, it's therefore unacceptable. It sounds more like you're having a slight learning curve with getting up to speed on a new system. I'm not sure why you fault Asterisk for this, as every system out there is going to have a learning curve. As Steve Underwood pointed out elsewhere in this thread, there are no standards for voicemail applications, so every system is going to be different. I would agree with you that there is a learning curve with the systems. And that there are no standards. But what we did is replace another voicemail system with Asterisks. And we are planning on changing others the same way. I do like the feature like you said of having the un-delete. But you should be able to configure the features you want! 2nd all the voice mail systems I have used when you delete a message it moves on the the next. Asterisk does not. Then after you hear your new messages it just leaves you there. It will not even play the prompt to go into the old folders unless you hit the advance option. I like Asterisk and plan on using it. But you have to understand that when you install this to normal users that are used to other voice mail system they will call you every day for weeks about this. Personally, I like the fact that I have to explicitly delete a message for it to get deleted and that if I delete a message accidently, I can undo that (and more importantly, the non-techies in the office can also do that). This is a feature, not a bug. Please do not take this the wrong way. I am trying to get a system that will allow us to configure it so we can get it out to more people! It's far better then the nortel's and others in the cost and ability to change. There is a future here. It needs to move out of the geeks (My self included) use and into the mass media! ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 09:08, Gavin Hamill wrote: It would seem an odd question, but I'm trying to put together a little presentation on 'Why Asterisk?' and need to list Pros and Cons I've got plenty of Pros (including the availability of commercial support), but the only Con I can think of is 'Relatively few installations worldwide' Your listed con is only a con if you have to point to others failures to cover your own. It is lemming thinking. Can anyone think of any others? If your company has a few decent programmers with a good knowledge of open source software and software debugging, the few access of the source code is the greatest PRO. I think the only Con we could think up when we initially deployed was our question of the longevity of the Digium company. Every time I get to hear from Mark about how the company is doing, the less this concern becomes. This was only a concern because of the need to have affordable and well supported channels into asterisk. We choose to download all the software at that point and all the schematics and information, burn it to CD, and store it away in our lock box as a safety net. I'd say the only other cons you could list are really in driver support areas right now, but knowing that those are moving targets and can potentially be fixed or avoided lowers those risks. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
Gavin Hamill wrote: It would seem an odd question, but I'm trying to put together a little presentation on 'Why Asterisk?' and need to list Pros and Cons I've got plenty of Pros (including the availability of commercial support), but the only Con I can think of is 'Relatively few installations worldwide' Can anyone think of any others? No built in high availability or clustering options making it as reliable as the harware, OS and apps.. Last time I looked it up PC systems combined hardware components average reliability was about 96% uptime(This was a while back so the percentage may not be accurate).. This is a problem for telecom's system whos uptime is usually measured in years and not a percentage of 1 year.. No flames please, I realise that there are issues involved with the PSTN lines, channel banks and some other things in a clustered senario.. Later.. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
Gavin Hamill wrote: It would seem an odd question, but I'm trying to put together a little presentation on 'Why Asterisk?' and need to list Pros and Cons I've got plenty of Pros (including the availability of commercial support), but the only Con I can think of is 'Relatively few installations worldwide' Can anyone think of any others? Cons: * Not a full SIP proxy If you're looking for a SIP proxy that follows the RFC, Asterisk is not your choice. ...yet. There's work going on to fix this. * No release handling There are new schemes planned for stable/development branches but right now, there is only your pick of a CVS date and you're on your own to see if it's stable. New functions aren't downported to older, stable, versions. * Limited hardware support The software is pretty well tied to Digium hardware for PSTN connectivity. (Myself, I have no problem with this, but it could be seen as a con). /O ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 15:31, Steven Critchfield wrote: the only Con I can think of is 'Relatively few installations worldwide' Your listed con is only a con if you have to point to others failures to cover your own. It is lemming thinking. Hm, it's only a con because I can't think of anything else, to be honest :) The call centre is our lifeblood at the moment, so whilst I personally am confident that Asterisk can perform the task more reliably and more adaptably than our current PBX, the fact that not many other people (that I know of) are using the software is a significant factor in the risk assessment. Our mgmt are reasonably open and forward, but with something as core to the business as the phones, I expect they will show a more conservative side. It's a pleasant boost to my case that our current proprietary PBX has been dogged with problems. Can anyone think of any others? If your company has a few decent programmers with a good knowledge of open source software and software debugging, the few access of the source code is the greatest PRO. Alas, we're a web shop, so the coding talent extends only to Perl/PHP. Perfect for AGI scripting, but not a lot of use if we find issues in the Asterisk core. I think the only Con we could think up when we initially deployed was our question of the longevity of the Digium company. Interesting - something I'd not even considered simply because new products appear all the time, and I haven't heard a bad word said about them to date. I'd say the only other cons you could list are really in driver support areas right now, but knowing that those are moving targets and can potentially be fixed or avoided lowers those risks. nod Cheers, Gavin. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 09:36, WipeOut wrote: Gavin Hamill wrote: It would seem an odd question, but I'm trying to put together a little presentation on 'Why Asterisk?' and need to list Pros and Cons I've got plenty of Pros (including the availability of commercial support), but the only Con I can think of is 'Relatively few installations worldwide' Can anyone think of any others? No built in high availability or clustering options making it as reliable as the harware, OS and apps.. Last time I looked it up PC systems combined hardware components average reliability was about 96% uptime(This was a while back so the percentage may not be accurate).. This is a problem for telecom's system whos uptime is usually measured in years and not a percentage of 1 year.. No flames please, I realise that there are issues involved with the PSTN lines, channel banks and some other things in a clustered senario.. I think the number you cited needs qualification to be accurate. Because if it where accurate as it stands, I'm due for major downtime in my rack as I have several systems approaching 2 years uptime without a single hardware failure. These machines also where not new when they where sent to the colo facility. In fact they all had been running for about a year before hand. And as a question of the 5 9's reported on telco hardware, As far as I know, that is for total system failure. The fact that they could loose trunks, or even a portion of a neighbor hood doesn't count against their downtime. If it did, I could point to a couple of telcos in this area that would have problems meeting those requirements. --- to back up my claim about uptime, my webserver is showing 136 days uptime, this is after a 497 day wrap around of the uptime counter. This machine is a Dell pe2450 the mail server is a home built 700 celeron showing the same 136 day uptime after the 497 day uptime wrap around. Due to a hacker, our clients machine is showing 105 days uptime post 497 day uptime wrap around. Again home built machine. One of our fileservers is showing 133 days uptime post uptime wrap around. This is due to a screw up at the keyboard just 3 days after installing it in the colo. Also a home built machine. Our VPN machine is just getting up to 354 days uptime. This is a super micro we purchased and put into service shortly there after. Our database server just went through a hardware and software upgrade that caused it's reboot, now at 185 days uptime. Same hardware as the above listed webserver. The 2 machines in my rack without impressive uptimes are a NT machine and my phone gateway that just had a kernel update. This should probe that good power supply to the machine will help make hardware run well for a long time. Why do you think the telco equipment runs on 48volts? They are pulling from the batteries 100% of the time. This makes a smooth even power flow. Machines in my office are subjected to poorer quality power and tweaking so they don't tend to make it to the 200 day uptime mark very often. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
One of the biggest cons is the lack of friendly interface for configuration. However, most PBXs in use don't have one either, unless they are about 5 years old or newer, in which case it probably wouldn't be on the chopping block. I still think the pros outweigh the cons, or else I wouldn't be on this list :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gavin Hamill Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 9:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk? It would seem an odd question, but I'm trying to put together a little presentation on 'Why Asterisk?' and need to list Pros and Cons I've got plenty of Pros (including the availability of commercial support), but the only Con I can think of is 'Relatively few installations worldwide' Can anyone think of any others? Cheeres, Gavin. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 16:02, Olle E. Johansson wrote: Cons: * Not a full SIP proxy Fortunately this is not relevant to our environment :) * No release handling Good point, I've added that to the list.. * Limited hardware support The software is pretty well tied to Digium hardware for PSTN connectivity. I don't see this as an issue, either :) Digium's hardware is expensive only for those in a computing environment where even complex hardware costs only a few dollars... From a telco pricing view, $1495 for a card that lets you connect four PRIs is a bargain :) Many thanks for your suggestions. Cheers, Gavin. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
--- Gavin Hamill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would seem an odd question, but I'm trying to put together a little presentation on 'Why Asterisk?' and need to list Pros and Cons I've got plenty of Pros (including the availability of commercial support), but the only Con I can think of is 'Relatively few installations worldwide' What's few there must be many thousands of installations. Reasons not to buy it, I think all revolve around the fact that Digium is a very small bussiness and could easly vanish. and while there are numerus small consulting firms that could step in few have to ability to actually write new core PBX code or device drivers and continue development. Even those few might see that someone motivated and talented failed and not want to step in. That said, if you have some technical skills you don't need support and if all else fails there are other Open Source projects that you could fall back on. So the risk is quite low. It is _very_ low if you take the time to make plans to cover yourself. In the end, you have the Asterisk code, you don't get this if you buy a comercial PBX system. The other reason not to buy is that it simply may not be a good technical fit. Clearly Asterisk is not what you'd want if your company had 10,000 phone extensions Can anyone think of any others? Cheeres, Gavin. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users = Chris Albertson Home: 310-376-1029 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 310-990-7550 Office: 310-336-5189 [EMAIL PROTECTED] KG6OMK __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 10:16, Gavin Hamill wrote: On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 15:31, Steven Critchfield wrote: the only Con I can think of is 'Relatively few installations worldwide' Your listed con is only a con if you have to point to others failures to cover your own. It is lemming thinking. Hm, it's only a con because I can't think of anything else, to be honest :) The call centre is our lifeblood at the moment, so whilst I personally am confident that Asterisk can perform the task more reliably and more adaptably than our current PBX, the fact that not many other people (that I know of) are using the software is a significant factor in the risk assessment. Our mgmt are reasonably open and forward, but with something as core to the business as the phones, I expect they will show a more conservative side. It's a pleasant boost to my case that our current proprietary PBX has been dogged with problems. Can anyone think of any others? If your company has a few decent programmers with a good knowledge of open source software and software debugging, the few access of the source code is the greatest PRO. Alas, we're a web shop, so the coding talent extends only to Perl/PHP. Perfect for AGI scripting, but not a lot of use if we find issues in the Asterisk core. You would be surprised at how quickly you can pick up on how things are done in a well coded C project. I assume if you are doing php/perl, you probably are at least passingly familiar with a linux system and can pick up some easy debugging skills. I think the only Con we could think up when we initially deployed was our question of the longevity of the Digium company. Interesting - something I'd not even considered simply because new products appear all the time, and I haven't heard a bad word said about them to date. Our concerns where only about them being a small company and you have to understand our implementation is over a year old. I think we purchased parts before the official FCC certs where in. This all said, we where cutting it close to being on the very cutting edge of what was released. You are now coming into it after Digium has grown and released a few more products. We no longer have these kinds of fears, but 18-24 months ago would have been a little different. Another reason why we may have thought about it was simply the fact that we also are a really small shop that occasionally have to worry about how business will fair. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
Yes, I agree. Your typical PC might have only 96% uptime but you could still build a __system__ with five nines of uptime using PC hardware. You eed to do two things. 1) Use better quality PC hardware that employs some internal redundancy, like mirrored drives and multiple load sharing power supplies. 2) design the system so that critical functions can fail over or at worst be restored quickly. Doing all this will triple (at least) your costs but that's just what it takes if you _really_ need all five of those nines. Yes it would be nice if someone could port Asterisk to Sun SPARC hardware then it could run on Sun's telco-grade Netra boxes --- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 09:36, WipeOut wrote: Gavin Hamill wrote: It would seem an odd question, but I'm trying to put together a little presentation on 'Why Asterisk?' and need to list Pros and Cons I've got plenty of Pros (including the availability of commercial support), but the only Con I can think of is 'Relatively few installations worldwide' Can anyone think of any others? No built in high availability or clustering options making it as reliable as the harware, OS and apps.. Last time I looked it up PC systems combined hardware components average reliability was about 96% uptime(This was a while back so the percentage may not be accurate).. This is a problem for telecom's system whos uptime is usually measured in years and not a percentage of 1 year.. No flames please, I realise that there are issues involved with the PSTN lines, channel banks and some other things in a clustered senario.. I think the number you cited needs qualification to be accurate. Because if it where accurate as it stands, I'm due for major downtime in my rack as I have several systems approaching 2 years uptime without a single hardware failure. These machines also where not new when they where sent to the colo facility. In fact they all had been running for about a year before hand. And as a question of the 5 9's reported on telco hardware, As far as I know, that is for total system failure. The fact that they could loose trunks, or even a portion of a neighbor hood doesn't count against their downtime. If it did, I could point to a couple of telcos in this area that would have problems meeting those requirements. --- to back up my claim about uptime, my webserver is showing 136 days uptime, this is after a 497 day wrap around of the uptime counter. This machine is a Dell pe2450 the mail server is a home built 700 celeron showing the same 136 day uptime after the 497 day uptime wrap around. Due to a hacker, our clients machine is showing 105 days uptime post 497 day uptime wrap around. Again home built machine. One of our fileservers is showing 133 days uptime post uptime wrap around. This is due to a screw up at the keyboard just 3 days after installing it in the colo. Also a home built machine. Our VPN machine is just getting up to 354 days uptime. This is a super micro we purchased and put into service shortly there after. Our database server just went through a hardware and software upgrade that caused it's reboot, now at 185 days uptime. Same hardware as the above listed webserver. The 2 machines in my rack without impressive uptimes are a NT machine and my phone gateway that just had a kernel update. This should probe that good power supply to the machine will help make hardware run well for a long time. Why do you think the telco equipment runs on 48volts? They are pulling from the batteries 100% of the time. This makes a smooth even power flow. Machines in my office are subjected to poorer quality power and tweaking so they don't tend to make it to the 200 day uptime mark very often. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users = Chris Albertson Home: 310-376-1029 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 310-990-7550 Office: 310-336-5189 [EMAIL PROTECTED] KG6OMK __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
i m a newbie with * so in all likelihood my question will sound stupid to you but aren't there HA support for linux already? as to the pstn interfaces, i thought most traditional PBX uses redundant equipment to provide HA; can't we do the same with * being the switch? WipeOut wrote: Gavin Hamill wrote: It would seem an odd question, but I'm trying to put together a little presentation on 'Why Asterisk?' and need to list Pros and Cons I've got plenty of Pros (including the availability of commercial support), but the only Con I can think of is 'Relatively few installations worldwide' Can anyone think of any others? No built in high availability or clustering options making it as reliable as the harware, OS and apps.. Last time I looked it up PC systems combined hardware components average reliability was about 96% uptime(This was a while back so the percentage may not be accurate).. This is a problem for telecom's system whos uptime is usually measured in years and not a percentage of 1 year.. No flames please, I realise that there are issues involved with the PSTN lines, channel banks and some other things in a clustered senario.. Later.. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
Steven Critchfield wrote: I think the number you cited needs qualification to be accurate. Because if it where accurate as it stands, I'm due for major downtime in my rack as I have several systems approaching 2 years uptime without a single hardware failure. These machines also where not new when they where sent to the colo facility. In fact they all had been running for about a year before hand. I agree.. Like I said those numbers were based on memory.. I researched it about a year ago for a customer I was consulting to.. Also I think the numbers were based on a population of PC's in a company and then converted to an average.. In any case I agree with you completely that systems are capable of running for a year or more uninterupted.. The fact still remains that CEO's and CFO's and any other board or management member seem to feel far more comfortable when a critical business system can be made as redundant and fault tolerent as is imaginably possible.. When you tell a person there is no OPTION for redundancy of the system they will tent to shy away and so that is why I said it was a potential con in the pro's and con's list.. And as a question of the 5 9's reported on telco hardware, As far as I know, that is for total system failure. The fact that they could loose trunks, or even a portion of a neighbor hood doesn't count against their downtime. If it did, I could point to a couple of telcos in this area that would have problems meeting those requirements. I agree with you here too.. 5 9's is alway a debatable statistic in the life of a system.. Later.. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
Can anyone think of any others? mmh... some idea here * experienced linux user for production use (able to di compilation, knows how the shell works, able to debug code kernel probs, blah blah blah) * interoperating with other telco (even only lines...) needs some background in telecom world... like what I must do if my pri doesn't work ? I learned to debug pri messages, when a E1 of one customer didn't worked... also other issues... like echo or similar * must know how the net works... expecially in VoIP applications * again... a very experienced linux man to deploy robust reliable * servers ... just my 2 cents Matteo. -- Brancaleoni Matteo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Espia - Emmegi Srl ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
This company seems to think pros outweigh the cons for Asterisk: www.voicepulse.com /. reported today that VoicePulse uses a variation of Asterisk to run their Broadband Phone Service. http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/11/05/1319251mode=threadtid=126 Steven Critchfield wrote: On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 09:36, WipeOut wrote: Gavin Hamill wrote: It would seem an odd question, but I'm trying to put together a little presentation on 'Why Asterisk?' and need to list Pros and Cons I've got plenty of Pros (including the availability of commercial support), but the only Con I can think of is 'Relatively few installations worldwide' Can anyone think of any others? No built in high availability or clustering options making it as reliable as the harware, OS and apps.. Last time I looked it up PC systems combined hardware components average reliability was about 96% uptime(This was a while back so the percentage may not be accurate).. This is a problem for telecom's system whos uptime is usually measured in years and not a percentage of 1 year.. No flames please, I realise that there are issues involved with the PSTN lines, channel banks and some other things in a clustered senario.. I think the number you cited needs qualification to be accurate. Because if it where accurate as it stands, I'm due for major downtime in my rack as I have several systems approaching 2 years uptime without a single hardware failure. These machines also where not new when they where sent to the colo facility. In fact they all had been running for about a year before hand. And as a question of the 5 9's reported on telco hardware, As far as I know, that is for total system failure. The fact that they could loose trunks, or even a portion of a neighbor hood doesn't count against their downtime. If it did, I could point to a couple of telcos in this area that would have problems meeting those requirements. --- to back up my claim about uptime, my webserver is showing 136 days uptime, this is after a 497 day wrap around of the uptime counter. This machine is a Dell pe2450 the mail server is a home built 700 celeron showing the same 136 day uptime after the 497 day uptime wrap around. Due to a hacker, our clients machine is showing 105 days uptime post 497 day uptime wrap around. Again home built machine. One of our fileservers is showing 133 days uptime post uptime wrap around. This is due to a screw up at the keyboard just 3 days after installing it in the colo. Also a home built machine. Our VPN machine is just getting up to 354 days uptime. This is a super micro we purchased and put into service shortly there after. Our database server just went through a hardware and software upgrade that caused it's reboot, now at 185 days uptime. Same hardware as the above listed webserver. The 2 machines in my rack without impressive uptimes are a NT machine and my phone gateway that just had a kernel update. This should probe that good power supply to the machine will help make hardware run well for a long time. Why do you think the telco equipment runs on 48volts? They are pulling from the batteries 100% of the time. This makes a smooth even power flow. Machines in my office are subjected to poorer quality power and tweaking so they don't tend to make it to the 200 day uptime mark very often. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
Can anyone think of any others? Here is the short list I have! 1) Lack of graphical interface. 2) Un-freindly user interface (Command prompt only) 3) Network and Telephony person needed at site. 4) No standard SIP Phone nor IAX phone available. and the biggest one I feel is a major problem! 5) Voicemail can not be configured unless you re program it yourself. And is not based on any standards! ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
Gavin, So you want a few reasons why you shouldn't use asterisk, I can think of some: Don't want to use a reliable operating system (linux) Don't have the expertise to use the best operating system that is initially a very low cost to acquire You can decide when to upgrade, not being forced to do so It is open source and therefore there is some level of expertise to use it Documentation isn't good but improving (thanks to Steven, Olle, etc) Isn't yet mature (but what software is) Don't want to use telephony hardware that can support more powerful processors and support the increasing number of applications as they come along Don't want to avail yourselves of the many experts that provide their expertise for the support of others - for free Don't want to use the flexibility of having access to the source to make special improvements that only customers can demand Can't abide responsive solutions to problems Is this sufficient Gavin? Peter At 15:08 5/11/03 +, you wrote: It would seem an odd question, but I'm trying to put together a little presentation on 'Why Asterisk?' and need to list Pros and Cons I've got plenty of Pros (including the availability of commercial support), but the only Con I can think of is 'Relatively few installations worldwide' Can anyone think of any others? Cheeres, Gavin. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 11:55, hkirrc.patrick wrote: i m a newbie with * so in all likelihood my question will sound stupid to you but aren't there HA support for linux already? as to the pstn interfaces, i thought most traditional PBX uses redundant equipment to provide HA; can't we do the same with * being the switch? That depends, HA support in linux can make sure that a server or service is there to handle certain failures. RAID is there to support failing disks, and hotswap is an option for not having down time when it comes to fixing the failure. Same goes with hot swappable power supplies. On PC hardware, I think that is about as far as you can go on a single machine. The next step is to write software that can jump in and take over services when it detects the primary has failed. This isn't too difficult on a VoIP machine as the phones talk to a IP address that can be assumed on failure. This is supported currently for several services. On a PSTN connection though, you get the problem of physical interfaces. While it was recently mentioned that there is a device for T1 interfaces to fail over in the case of alarm, and this could allow a new machine to pick up and deal with calls from the PSTN. Of course for those of us on all Zap interfaces, this would be interesting in that we would have the failover piece on our inbound, and potentially on each T1 interface to our channel banks. You would loose any in process calls, but new calls would route fine. Of course as I think back, The Intertel hardware our sister company was installing didn't have any HA features. I wouldn't consider this a CON so much as a classification of what is possible to do. I doubt the hardware the person who started this thread has has any HA features built into it right now. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 12:42, Brancaleoni Matteo wrote: Can anyone think of any others? mmh... some idea here * experienced linux user for production use (able to di compilation, knows how the shell works, able to debug code kernel probs, blah blah blah) * interoperating with other telco (even only lines...) needs some background in telecom world... like what I must do if my pri doesn't work ? I learned to debug pri messages, when a E1 of one customer didn't worked... also other issues... like echo or similar * must know how the net works... expecially in VoIP applications * again... a very experienced linux man to deploy robust reliable * servers ... Other than the telco background, shouldn't every company have one of those people now? It isn't like windows has been the only option to play with for the last decade. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
As far as I can gather, the voicemailmain program is not configurable. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The other way to create a voice mail main of your own is to create a menu with many submenus in extensions.conf - and that's no walk in the park. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tilghman Lesher Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 1:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk? On Wednesday 05 November 2003 14:40, Ariel Batista wrote: Can anyone think of any others? and the biggest one I feel is a major problem! 5) Voicemail can not be configured unless you re program it yourself. And is not based on any standards! I'm curious as to what you find unconfigurable in Voicemail. I'm also wondering if you have an RFC for voicemail in mind (for standardization). -Tilghman ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
WipeOut wrote: Gavin Hamill wrote: It would seem an odd question, but I'm trying to put together a little presentation on 'Why Asterisk?' and need to list Pros and Cons I've got plenty of Pros (including the availability of commercial support), but the only Con I can think of is 'Relatively few installations worldwide' Can anyone think of any others? No built in high availability or clustering options making it as reliable as the harware, OS and apps.. Last time I looked it up PC systems combined hardware components average reliability was about 96% uptime(This was a while back so the percentage may not be accurate).. This is a problem for telecom's system whos uptime is usually measured in years and not a percentage of 1 year.. No flames please, I realise that there are issues involved with the PSTN lines, channel banks and some other things in a clustered senario.. Later.. 96% uptime would mean nearly 4 hours per month down. I have never experiemced anything that bad using the nastiest crappiest no-name server parts. unless you want to make a point, like some authors do. Then you say the hard disk failed and it took a week to get and install a new ones, so the downtime was 24x7 hours. In reality, if your service support doesn't stock all the important bits for quick replacement, it provides no service at all. I have typically found Linux and even SCO Openserver on x86 servers have better up time than the fully redundant machines from Stratus. Their hardware may not fall over, but their OS does. When it does it takes 1 to 2 hours to reboot. Regards, Steve ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
Ariel Batista wrote: Can anyone think of any others? Here is the short list I have! 1) Lack of graphical interface. 2) Un-freindly user interface (Command prompt only) 3) Network and Telephony person needed at site. 4) No standard SIP Phone nor IAX phone available. and the biggest one I feel is a major problem! 5) Voicemail can not be configured unless you re program it yourself. And is not based on any standards! 100% of all voicemail systems are not based on standards. There *are* no standards for voicemail. There aren't even many common practices. The nearest voice mail comes to haveing a standard is that you are expected to talk after a *beep*. I think that is primarily so those who don't understand the language of the prompts can still leave messages easily. Regards, Steve ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Reasons why I shouldn't use Asterisk?
On Wednesday 05 November 2003 16:39, Shoval Tom wrote: As far as I can gather, the voicemailmain program is not configurable. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Configurable? It's very configurable. You can customize your name, unavailable message, and busy message and change your password all without having to resort to the command line. In a configuration file, you can customize whether you receive emails and/or pages when you receive a message. You can customize the format of the message that gets sent to you when you receive a voicemail. You can even change the format of the datetime stamp that tells you when your message was received. The other way to create a voice mail main of your own is to create a menu with many submenus in extensions.conf - and that's no walk in the park. This differs only from other voicemail systems in that you can. Most systems out there are not configurable in this way at all. -Tilghman ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
