Re: Spec explanations for Pebble?

2005-08-13 Thread Simon Brown

Graham Parks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 On 12 Aug 2005, at 9:16 am, Carey Evans wrote:
 
  First, where does the spec actually say that the atom:id shouldn't
  change if the blog moves to a different domain?  I think that if the
  URL of the blog changes, it means that the Atom Feed Document has been
  relocated so the ID should stay the same, but Simon doesn't see this
  in the spec.
 
 Section 4.2.6, paragraph 3:
 
an atom:id element pertains to all instantiations of a particular
 Atom entry or feed; revisions retain the same content in their
 atom:id elements. It is suggested that the atom:id element be
 stored along with the associated resource.
 
 If an Atom document is a feed of the same blog, then even if the blog  
 has moved, the id should stay the same. What makes you think otherwise?

That same paragraph starts, When an Atom Document is relocated, migrated,
syndicated, republished, exported or imported, the content of its atom:id
element MUST NOT change.. For me, this paragraph talks about the *Atom
Document* moving, rather than the content that it represents (i.e. a blog). Mark
Pilgrim has a great article about Atom IDs and towards the end of it goes on to
talk about the same entry in multiple feeds
(http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/05/28/howto-atom-id#multiple), although
that's not what I'm talking about here.

Just to quote an example, Tim is currently using URL based Atom IDs, such as :

idhttp://www.tbray.org/ongoing//id
idhttp://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2005/08/09/Web-2.0/id

If Tim *moves* his blog to www.timbray.com/ongoing, would you expect his Atom
IDs to remain the same? Spec aside, this has some implications for storing Atom
IDs next to content they identify, which I imagine doesn't happen in most CMS
tools at the moment.

  Second, what sort of values should be used for the scheme attribute on
  the category?  Looking at http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/ongoing.atom as
  an authoritative example, it seems that the scheme should be the same
  for all categories, but Pebble uses the URL of the individual category
  page.  The spec doesn't say, so does it matter?
 
 Section 4.2.2.2:
 
 The scheme attribute is an IRI that identifies a  
 categorization scheme.
 
 categorization scheme means the system used to categorize entries.  
 Presumably each blog has its own system for doing so, so the scheme  
 attribute should be the same for all posts from the same blog, and  
 unique to the blog.

The categorization scheme is a little confusing, although looking at Tim's feed
and a few others has cleared up in my mind what I should be using. Basically, I
was using this

category term=pebble label=pebble
scheme=http://www.simongbrown.com/blog/tags/pebble; /

rather than this (notice the shorter scheme)

category term=pebble label=pebble
scheme=http://www.simongbrown.com/blog/tags/; /

Are there any recommendations as to that the scheme attribute should be and what
it might be used for?

Simon



Re: Spec explanations for Pebble?

2005-08-13 Thread Tim Bray


On Aug 13, 2005, at 1:34 AM, Simon Brown wrote:

Just to quote an example, Tim is currently using URL based Atom  
IDs, such as :


idhttp://www.tbray.org/ongoing//id
idhttp://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2005/08/09/Web-2.0/id

If Tim *moves* his blog to www.timbray.com/ongoing, would you  
expect his Atom

IDs to remain the same?


Absolutely, otherwise everyone who subscribes to me is going to see  
all the same old articles again, exactly what atom:id exists to  
prevent.  The fact that I use HTTP URIs for identifiers reflects my  
belief that good Web citizenship requires that once something is  
published and its URI widely disseminated, it should never ever be  
moved; so in my case this scenario is unlikely to arise. -Tim







Re: Spec explanations for Pebble?

2005-08-12 Thread Graham Parks


On 12 Aug 2005, at 9:16 am, Carey Evans wrote:


First, where does the spec actually say that the atom:id shouldn't
change if the blog moves to a different domain?  I think that if the
URL of the blog changes, it means that the Atom Feed Document has been
relocated so the ID should stay the same, but Simon doesn't see this
in the spec.


Section 4.2.6, paragraph 3:

  an atom:id element pertains to all instantiations of a particular
   Atom entry or feed; revisions retain the same content in their
   atom:id elements. It is suggested that the atom:id element be
   stored along with the associated resource.

If an Atom document is a feed of the same blog, then even if the blog  
has moved, the id should stay the same. What makes you think otherwise?



Second, what sort of values should be used for the scheme attribute on
the category?  Looking at http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/ongoing.atom as
an authoritative example, it seems that the scheme should be the same
for all categories, but Pebble uses the URL of the individual category
page.  The spec doesn't say, so does it matter?


Section 4.2.2.2:

   The scheme attribute is an IRI that identifies a  
categorization scheme.


categorization scheme means the system used to categorize entries.  
Presumably each blog has its own system for doing so, so the scheme  
attribute should be the same for all posts from the same blog, and  
unique to the blog.


Graham



Re: Spec explanations for Pebble?

2005-08-12 Thread Tim Bray


On Aug 12, 2005, at 1:55 AM, Graham Parks wrote:

categorization scheme means the system used to categorize  
entries. Presumably each blog has its own system for doing so, so  
the scheme attribute should be the same for all posts from the same  
blog, and unique to the blog.


Mostly agree.

Except for, a bunch of blogs might agree to share a categorization  
scheme, so probably not unique to each blog.


But I suspect that the notion of categorization scheme is  
underdefined enough that if someone wanted to use different URIs for  
each page like the example Carey cited, that's really dumb but not  
actually illegal. -Tim