Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ogomez92 via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

Blood accessibility heh

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=301393#p301393





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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

Not quite, there is a pending law that games currently have an exemption from, but that only applies to in-game communication, rather than gameplay.There are ways around misuse, for example in the old xbox arcade system when a game was uploaded there was an inner circle of a few hundred gamers whose job it was to check out all of the claims that were made about that game's features. If a game received enough flags, it didn't automatically remove the features from the listing, it flagged it up as needing review by xbox staff. If there were any serial musers, they were kicked out of the circle of reviewers. Which they wouldn't want, as there was a motivation to be a reviewer - the reviewers received all of the games they reviewed for free.

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=299915#p299915





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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : DracoSelene89 via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

The issue with offfering people the ability to flag...anything really, is misuse. Look at Youtube for an example and the issue of false flagging there. Don't like somebody? Get all your subscribers to flag that person's stuff.It happens, and it will happen again with how people are if they don't like something.That's not to say that it isn't a nice idea, but I do think there needs to be a certain standard for blind gamers, deaf gamers, physically handicapped gamers and so forth, not just a single standard.I'll have to go look it up but I swear I read somewhere  that the US laws were changing in that regard.

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=299703#p299703





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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

How about crowd sourced verification - so a developer says that a game is accessible, and gamers are then free to disagree with that.. if enough gamers flag it as incorrect, the listing is removed?

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=299649#p299649





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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

The caption tag is of value, as obviously people who require captions generally don't need to use screenreaders. It was brought about as the result of a change.org campaign by a deaf gamer.

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=241624#p241624





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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Figment via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

I have to agree with Assault, until there is a standard by which a game's accessibility can be measured, accessibility is subjective enough that with a standard, it would be more confusing than useful.What Steam is doing with caption tags is a step in the right direction, but I notice that Steam themselves aren't taking that step by making their client more accessible, so the caption tag is of little value.

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=241095#p241095





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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : magurp244 via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

I though i'd just let everyone know itch.io recently put up a community forum a few days ago, complete with a section for suggestions and improvements for the site. So if anyone happens to have any suggestions or want to get more involved, now might be a good time.

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=241057#p241057





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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

User submittable tags already exist on Steam, but not one single person has, for example, tagged skullgirls as being blind accessible.I 100% get that any developer submitted tags would not result Im a complete list, would not show games that are accidentally accessible. Other tags, such as remappable controls our subtitles, dont have the same issue at all.But would it not still be a useful way to discover new content to be able to click on a blind-accessible tag and see a list of some games that the developers believe are accessible, even though it wouldnt cover everything?

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223855#p223855




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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

User submittable tags already exist on Steam, but not one single person has, for example, tagged skullgirls as being blind accessible.I 100% get that any developer submitted tags would not result in a complete list, as it would not show games that are accidentally accessible. Other tags, such as remappable controls our subtitles, dont have the same issue at all.But would it not still be a useful way to discover new content to be able to click on a blind-accessible tag and see a list of some games that the developers believe are accessible, even though it wouldnt cover everything?

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223855#p223855




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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Sightless Kombat via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

It might but again, some developers might think games are accessible when theyre not (some people treat blind as being able to see certain things instead of total lack of vision etc). I wonder how you tag a steam game? Maybe some skullgirls players from this forum should get on tagging it as completely playable by individuals with no vision...

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223937#p223937




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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Sik via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

Theres also subjectivity on whats good enough. Some people think that copying to clipboard is enough for supporting screen readers, some would demand support through the proper means and not limited to any screen reader in particular. Also theres the issue of supporting deafblind players (for whom audio-only solutions dont work) and partially deaf (for whom stereo-only solutions dont work).And yeah, blind is vague. Ive got somebody whos legally blind say that Sol with default settings is accessible, which shows the threshold for being considered blind is quite low.

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223950#p223950




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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : crashmaster via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

Hi.my issues are the stores themselves ian.ich.io is fully accessable.google play is semi accessable though to get all their music you buy for pc at least there are loads of web play download restrictions and the only other way to get things is their usable music manager.As for itunes the itunes client while usable is not really as accessable as Id like though their web store via brouser is accessable.Gog.com I have no idea if its accessable or not but if its just a website then it may be.Steam is not accessable you need a capcha to signup anyway and the client is not really blind user friendly.asura while the site was accessable the software was some windowed html thing which while semi accessable with supernova 12 only went so far.Out of all those stores ich.io was the most and the best way for me if I was a dev would to include a paypal button on my site and be done with it.ich.io may be the acception its a website and
  supports paypal and other formats but its the only store I have found good.Now access wize I dont have time to brouse a store to find something which is or may be accessable.I found it out the hard way that some stuff even visual gamebooks are not accessable.There are some devs with contacts and some without those.The fact is I dont want to spend 30 bucks on something only to find its not accessable and more over the dev is not contactable.On the other hand I have just spent 40 bucks on the physical paypal assisted walkerman by scalemail.The dev was contactable in fact I got him to make his games accessable.Sadly though if something has 1, custom images, buttons, and graphics and is allready built its unlikely devs will actually bother trying to make it work.If its easy like turning something off and on or updating a library they will do it.Or if you ask them directly and explain they may try to do that.However
  you do rely on the dev themselves to want to conttinue.I have had people in the past that just dont do anything.Ofcause it helps when the tools used by that dev are built for access and all you need is to turn it on or something.Better still if the tools are free or opensource and themselves come from someone that made them with access in mind.Ofcause I havnt needed to venture to any store as such or at least not for much.Google play I went for some music because of paypal access and Id do it again for that access.Ich.io well Id do it again.asura I never got the client to work so unless I can buy without it I wont be doing anything even though I am registered.Steam can f**ck off as far as I care.If they wont improve their client no matter if their games are accessable I wont buy from them.I am so happy neilsbauergames didnt go fully steam because their games are good.

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223974#p223974




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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

General concensus is to get rid of the tagging because it is of no practical use?Not even a specific tag to say that it has been tested with screenreaders?

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223968#p223968




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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Sightless Kombat via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

@ianhamilton_I am sorry to say that I agree with Assault on this one. I think such tags, while useful as an outcome, are far too subjective to be of any help. For instance, I am aware of people who would be at a loss when I say I play Killer Instinct and while I have issues with certain elements of the mechanics (due to not really having enough practice with people willing to teach me) I would say the game is at least playable if not accessible.The two terms are interchangable in some instances, depending on what the player as an individual defines. So while I think, in principal, developers should be allowed to tag their games with accessibility-related info, until the developers start bringing in totally blind individuals from all over the world to verify the tags before release during live testing sessions (as is common with MKX and previous fighting games), I dont think its worth the effort. As you would probably agree thi
 s endeavour would be costly and a lot of developers wouldnt agree to it, therefore that version of the idea itself would probably fall flat.Whilst I appreciate the suggestion, I believe it will be several years before developers begin to truely accept that blind people can enjoy the vast majority of games with a relatively limited amount of tweaking and a good amount of testing. Once that understanding becomes full-scale and public, then we can start thinking about having an industry-wide accessibility tagging system. Since a large number of sighted individuals are in a state of relative awe and disbelief when blind people tell them we can play videogames (pc or otherwise) without help, this is the first barrier that needs to be conquered, subjectively speaking.I did think that perhaps games like Skullgirls, where developers have worked with blind people to make sure the games are as good as they can be, should have to go through an evaluation process
  of some kind. Actually, in saying that, how about turning the system on its head and having user submittable tags, in the same style as before. So if a person finds a game to be accessible, they can tag it as such and are required to leave a comment explaining their experience in terms of playability etc. This way a broader scope of individuals can submit their thoughts on the game to allow others to judge if a game is right for them.This latter iteration of the idea, of course, would need a fair amount of work, but keep in mind its just a theory and I dont doubt that there are a large number of holes contained within it.Thanks for bringing this to the attention of this forum, its an interesting topic.

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223852#p223852




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Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Accessibility info on storefronts

Just a quick straw poll!What Id like to ask about is the idea of digital storefronts (iTunes, Google play, steam, gog.com, itch.io etc) allowing a tickbox for developers to tick to say whether or not a game is blind accessible.You can see something similar already in existence on Steam, for captions. If you look at the details of a game it tells you wether or not it has captions, and when browsing lists of games you can filter the list to show you only games that have captions.Accuracy is not guaranteed as its something that the developers tick for themselves rather than something the storefronts checks/tests, but for the steam information on captions it doesnt seem to be a problem, the developers enter it fairly accurately.So what do you think? If that functionality was available for blood accessibility, would you use it? Is it something that you would like to see happen?

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223766#p223766




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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : assault_freak via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

Uh... thats a hard one, because that all depends on your definition of accessible, which, especially among sighted developers will differ. A fighting game is accessible with a very loose sense of the word, though most would say playable not accessible. And most games these days dont have accessibility features, they just happen to be playable... which is different. So I dont think a box like that would mean a lot, until the accessible game market gets bigger and theres some sort of standard.

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223779#p223779




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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

One of the storefronts has just added an option for develoeprs to tick called blind: Blind friendly (can play without any visuals), from what I can see though it isnt too helpful, lots of games that arent even a tiny bit blind accessible are having the box ticked.When they tick the box I think all theyre actually shown is the word blind, which might be resulting in some misunderstandings.. and there might be people who are purposefully ticking incorrectly in an attempt to get more people to find their games.How about something more specific, such as screenreader accessible, would that be useful?

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223782#p223782




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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

One of the storefronts has just added an option for develoeprs to tick called blind: Blind friendly (can play without any visuals), from what I can see though it isnt too helpful, lots of games that arent even a tiny bit blind accessible are having the box ticked.When they tick the box I think all theyre actually shown is the word blind, which might be resulting in some misunderstandings.. and there might be people who are purposefully ticking incorrectly in an attempt to get more people to find their games. Or it could be teething problems, games showing up in categories that they havent been tagged in for some reason.How about something more specific, such as screenreader accessible, would that be useful?

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223782#p223782




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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

One of the storefronts has just added an option for develoeprs to tick called blind: Blind friendly (can play without any visuals), from what I can see though it isnt too helpful, lots of games that arent even a tiny bit blind accessible are having the box ticked.When they tick the box I think all theyre actually shown is the word blind, which might be resulting in some misunderstandings.. and there might be people who are purposefully ticking incorrectly in an attempt to get more people to find their games.How about something more specific, such as screenreader accessible, would that be useful?

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223782#p223782




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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

One of the storefronts has just added an option for develoeprs to tick, their definition of blind acessible is can play without any visuals. How about something more specific, such as screenreader accessible, would that be more useful?

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223782#p223782




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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : assault_freak via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

Yes, but then again each developers definition of playable without visuals will be different... some developers will not consider Street Fighter a game that is playable without visuals. But it is. And its not screen reader accessible, but its still very much a game we can navigate fully. Im not writing this to contradict, Im just not sure about the plausability of something like this. Which storefront just put up that option? I guess screen reader accessible would be the optimal definition... but there again, very few games on the storefronts you mentioned other than Google Play and Itunes are likely to have games that are actually screen reader accessible, and that doesnt necessarily include all the games we can play if you want to include the ones on the storefront which are not screen reader accessible but that blind people can still play to a great extent.

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223785#p223785




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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : assault_freak via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

Yeah... thats true. My only problem still remains that the definition of blind-friendly is completely subjective. A game might be tagged when it really isnt, but more likely a game that is blind friendly may not be tagged because the developer doesnt assume it to be.

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223790#p223790




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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

Indeed, although theres nothing stopping someone contacting a developer to let them know that their game is blind accessible and should be tagged. Also as you say some games that show up will be tagged incorrectly, but that aside it should still be a useful way to find new games, compared to at the moment where the only possible way is to either hear about it from someone else, or to just download via trial and error.The key really is what exactly the tag should be. Perhaps two - screenreader compatible (tested with NVDA, voicever etc), and audiogame (playable by sound alone)?

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223792#p223792




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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

One of the storefronts has just added an option for develoeprs to tick, their definition of blind acessible is can play without any visuals. From what I can see though it isnt too helpful yet, lots of games that arent even a tiny bit blind accessible are showing up when as a gamer you choose to display only games under the blind tag.When they tick the box I think all theyre actually shown is the word blind, which might be resulting in some misunderstandings.. and there might be people who are purposefully ticking incorrectly in an attempt to get more people to find their games.How about something more specific, such as screenreader accessible, would that be useful?

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223782#p223782




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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

Itch.io, although its not publicly available yet, its just there for developers to start tagging. Theyll make it publicly browseable once enough games have been tagged.The accessibility tags they have introduced (covering various different impairments) are:colorblind: Color-blind friendly (only safe colors used, or colorblind mode available)subtitles: When voice acting is used, subtitles are availableconfigurable_controls: Game has configurable/remappable controlshighcontrast: Interface has a high contrasttutorial: Contains an interactive tutorialone_button: Can play by pressing only one buttonblind: Blind friendly (can play without any visuals)They have also introduced other types of tags, for example what input device is required, or how long it takes to play the game.Because it is at a very early stage now is the perfect time to get it done well though, before too many people start using it. I
 9;d hope its functionality that other storefronts will copy, so if itchs approach can be done well it should hopefully have wider reach too.

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223786#p223786




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Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

[AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : assault_freak via Audiogames-reflector]

  


Re: Accessibility info on storefronts

Wouldnt be tagged as an audiogame... playable by the blind and screen reader compatible are more likely ones, but still leaves the worst one to wide interpretation. hahaha.

URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223828#p223828




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