Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair Ill say for the record that all this is only exaserbated exponentially by a hearing loss, since often I cant actually tell if someone is speaking to me at first and/or need them to repeat themselves, which only furthers the impression. I actually read a cracked entry the other day about the social networking stuff Dark was speaking of, apparently someones trying to implement it now and its called social radar. Ive not looked into it, but the person writing the article put it in a very negative light and said it makes stalking easier than ever, so I dont think thatd be met with too much exceptance, let alone be treated as normal, anytime soon.Heres the link, its entry number 1.http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/5-ap … creeps_p2/ URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182593#p182593 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair @Paddy, eye contact is a bit more than just having your eyeballs pointed at someones face. It literally involves focusing your eyes on someone elses eyes, looking at what their eyes do and responding. it is not something Ive ever been able to do, but Ive discussed this with enough people to know how it works. You should always face someone when speaking to them as you said, sinse otherwise you can seem very rude and uninterested, however this is completely different from eye contact, indeed by the time a person is speaking to you eye contact isnt necessary (eye contact is often the precurser to speech).@Wanderer, Yep, the hearing loss cant help either, I know for a fact I avoid noisey environments myself precisely for this reason and I still occasionally make mistakes over being spoken to. For example a while ago I was at a friends wedding. I was sitting at a table in the dining area opposite another friend of mine.A pe rson she knew and I didnt turned up to speak to her and they had a chat. When said person left she said I like your tunic and went. My friend (the one sitting opposite), then asked me why Id been so rude to not thank someone whenrecieving a complement on what I was wearing. I however didnt realize the woman was speaking to mesinse she had been speaking to my friend, and while I was indeed wearing a long and fairly ornate coat in Chinese style Id have not described ait as a tunic, if shed said I like your jacket Id probably have noticed. Regarding determining who is in an area and ringing them across the room, well yes, Im not surprised people see this as a stalker tactic, its quite a modern paranoyer, indeed as I said the separation of online and offline contact is a bit worrysome, which is why I suspect the cultural acceptance of such a thing would be far more major a change than the technolog y required, which already basically exists. Heck, even if it were introduced as an access program which say could scan peoples Iphones in your vicinity and bring up their facebook profiles to read, to give blind people an equal crack at information and contact it would just contribute to the myth of misstrusting those manipulative blindies, which already can be found in some places.Probably the only real way to solve this sort of problem is try and educate the public, have more blind people on tv etc who are actually normal people rather than super sensomatic heroes like the dare devil or completely helpless and pathetic, though of course this is a very slow process. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182597#p182597 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair @Paddy, eye contact is a bit more than just having your eyeballs pointed at someones face. It literally involves focusing your eyes on someone elses eyes, looking at what their eyes do and responding. it is not something Ive ever been able to do, but Ive discussed this with enough people to know how it works. You should always face someone when speaking to them as you said, sinse otherwise you can seem very rude and uninterested, however this is completely different from eye contact, indeed by the time a person is speaking to you eye contact isnt necessary (eye contact is often the precurser to speech).@Wanderer, Yep, the hearing loss cant help either, I know for a fact I avoid noisey environments myself precisely for this reason and I still occasionally make mistakes over being spoken to. For example a while ago I was at a friends wedding. I was sitting at a table in the dining area opposite another friend of mine.A pe rson she knew and I didnt turned up to speak to her and they had a chat. When said person left she said I like your tunic and went. My friend (the one sitting opposite), then asked me why Id been so rude to not thank someone whenrecieving a complement on what I was wearing. I however didnt realize the woman was speaking to mesinse she had been speaking to my friend, and while I was indeed wearing a long and fairly ornate coat in Chinese style Id have not described ait as a tunic, if shed said I like your jacket Id probably have noticed. Regarding determining who is in an area and ringing them across the room, well yes, Im not surprised people see this as a stalker tactic, its quite a modern paranoyer, indeed as I said the separation of online and offline contact is a bit worrysome, which is why I suspect the cultural acceptance of such a thing would be far more major a change than the technolog y required, which already basically exists. Heck, even if it were introduced as an access program which say could scan peoples Iphones in your vicinity and bring up their facebook profiles to read, to give blind people an equal crack at information and contact it would just contribute to the myth of misstrusting those manipulative blindies, which already can be found in some places.Probably the only real way to solve this sort of problem is try and educate the public, have more blind people on tv etc who are actually normal people rather than super sensomatic heroes like the dare devil or completely helpless and pathetic, though of course this is a very slow process and its likely only people in the future who will get the same bennifit sinse certainly Ive not noticed any major difference in attitude change in the thirty or so years Ive been alive. Indeed with the recent financial crisis and the government and some of the worse news papers having fun labelling disabled people as scroungers there is a slight dip in attitude at least among people who pay attention to newspapers. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182597#p182597 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair @Lucas,Im not sure of that law. I dont know laws like that either. I just feel unconfterble, because the support guys dont seem to understand me and dont want to discuss matters like these, same goes to most of the security offers. I tried to ask them what their fears are, but it only works in the Heidepark, somehow you can discuss with some of them about it and if they cant find any cons anymore, what else should they do?@Dark,I hate people who talk to a blind person as to a kid! Eventhough it doesnt happen to much in Marburg, because people are confronted with blind people everyday, so they know how to communicate in the right way, at least in my opinion.However, there are a few people who dont seem to understand. There was a lady guiding me through obstacles. She was making strange, quiet noises while guiding me, hand in hand like she was guiding a small kid! Since things like that are pissing me off very quickl y, depending on how long I need to interact with people like her, I got a little unpollite to her, but still I tried to be pollite enough to tell her to go away. She finally agreed to let go of me, but then, to my greatest horror, I went into the completely wrong direction! So I turned around to go all the way back, into my actual direction, but what do you know, a surprised lady who just left me alone, appeared out of nowhere, asking me Hey, I thought ya goin home? I was just pissed off and told her in a kind of angry voice that I have forgotten a meeting with someone and tried to get away from her as quickly as possible! Luckily, she didnt follow me.But a few weeks later, a well known lady picked me up, saying Hey, Ive met ya some time ago, but you seemed to be a little angry that day. I actually had to stop myself from laughing!In my primary location, when I was about 6 years, my mother was guiding me and someone suddenly sho uted over to us Hey, whats wrong with that boy? It pissed me off, because I was wondering why he didnt ask me instead of my mother.But usually, I dont have too much problems communicating with people. Especially people around my age ask me about blindness, when they meet me for the first time. I was once waiting for the train to arive, when some people around my age asked me whether they could help me boarding the train. I really apreciated that and agreed. They were asking me how I know where I am, when being blind, or if it is bad to be blind. Someone of that group said Hey, stop that, Im sure he feels unconfterble now! I turned around to her and told her not to worry about my confterbleness, you may keep asking if you wish. They continued asking me about various things and even she started asking a little careful, however, it was pretty funny at the end and I didnt feel unconfterble about any questions.Its g ood that people ask and not believe in things they heard on the web, TV, or other persons.There are a lot of stereotypes out there and its allways nice to clear them up. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182452#p182452 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair @Lucas,Im not sure of that law. I dont know laws like that either. I just feel unconfterble, because the support guys dont seem to understand me and dont want to discuss matters like these, same goes to most of the security offers. I tried to ask them what their fears are, but it only works in the Heidepark, somehow you can discuss with some of them about it and if they cant find any cons anymore, what else should they do?@Dark,I hate people who talk to a blind person as to a kid! Although it doesnt happen to much in Marburg, because people are confronted with blind people everyday, so they know how to communicate in the right way, at least in my opinion.However, there are a few people who dont seem to understand. There was a lady guiding me through obstacles. She was making strange, quiet noises while guiding me, hand in hand like she was guiding a small kid! Since things like that are pissing me off very quickly, depending on how long I need to interact with people like her, I got a little unpollite to her, but still I tried to be pollite enough to tell her to go away. She finally agreed to let go of me, but then, to my greatest horror, I went into the completely wrong direction! So I turned around to go all the way back, into my actual direction, but what do you know, a surprised lady who just left me alone, appeared out of nowhere, asking me Hey, I thought ya goin home? I was just pissed off and told her in a kind of angry voice that I have forgotten a meeting with someone and tried to get away from her as quickly as possible! Luckily, she didnt follow me.But a few weeks later, a well known lady picked me up, saying Hey, Ive met ya some time ago, but you seemed to be a little angry that day. I actually had to stop myself from laughing!In my primary location, when I was about 6 years, my mother was guiding me and someone suddenly shout ed over to us Hey, whats wrong with that boy? It pissed me off, because I was wondering why he didnt ask me instead of my mother.But usually, I dont have too much problems communicating with people. Especially people around my age ask me about blindness, when they meet me for the first time. I was once waiting for the train to arive, when some people around my age asked me whether they could help me boarding the train. I really apreciated that and agreed. They were asking me how I know where I am, when being blind, or if it is bad to be blind. Someone of that group said Hey, stop that, Im sure he feels unconfterble now! I turned around to her and told her not to worry about my confterbleness, you may keep asking if you wish. They continued asking me about various things and even she started asking a little careful, however, it was pretty funny at the end and I didnt feel unconfterble about any questions.Its goo d that people ask and not believe in things they heard on the web, TV, or other persons.There are a lot of stereotypes out there and its allways nice to clear them up. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182452#p182452 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair @Lucas,Im not sure of that law. I dont know laws like that either. I just feel unconfterble, because the support guys dont seem to understand me and dont want to discuss matters like these, same goes to most of the security offers. I tried to ask them what their fears are, but it only works in the Heidepark, somehow you can discuss with some of them about it and if they cant find any cons anymore, what else should they do?@Dark,I hate people who talk to a blind person as to a kid! Although it doesnt happen to much in Marburg, because people are confronted with blind people everyday, so they know how to communicate in the right way, at least in my opinion.However, there are a few people who dont seem to understand. There was a lady guiding me through obstacles. She was making strange, quiet noises while guiding me, hand in hand like she was guiding a small kid! Since things like that are pissing me off very quickly, depending on how long I need to interact with people like her, I got a little unpolite to her, but still I tried to be polite enough to tell her to go away. She finally agreed to let go of me, but then, to my greatest horror, I went into the completely wrong direction! So I turned around to go all the way back, into my actual direction, but what do you know, a surprised lady who just left me alone, appeared out of nowhere, asking me Hey, I thought ya goin home? I was just pissed off and told her in a kind of angry voice that I have forgotten a meeting with someone and tried to get away from her as quickly as possible! Luckily, she didnt follow me.But a few weeks later, a well known lady picked me up, saying Hey, Ive met ya some time ago, but you seemed to be a little angry that day. I actually had to stop myself from laughing!In my primary location, when I was about 6 years, my mother was guiding me and someone suddenly shouted over to us Hey, whats wrong with that boy? It pissed me off, because I was wondering why he didnt ask me instead of my mother.But usually, I dont have too much problems communicating with people. Especially people around my age ask me about blindness, when they meet me for the first time. I was once waiting for the train to arive, when some people around my age asked me whether they could help me boarding the train. I really apreciated that and agreed. They were asking me how I know where I am, when being blind, or if it is bad to be blind. Someone of that group said Hey, stop that, Im sure he feels unconfterble now! I turned around to her and told her not to worry about my confterbleness, you may keep asking if you wish. They continued asking me about various things and even she started asking a little careful, however, it was pretty funny at the end and I didnt feel unconfterble about any questions.Its good that people ask and not believe in things they heard on the web, TV, or other persons.There are a lot of stereotypes out there and its allways nice to clear them up. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182452#p182452 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair @Paddy I agree on the encouraging people to ask questions. One of the best indicators Ive noticed when I meet a new person who initially is wary about interacting with me is when they say I dont want to offend you but, or do you mind if I ask a question? This is usually followed with either how much can you see? or have you always been blind Ive tended to start saying to people, Look if those sorts of questions offended me, Id be offended a lot of the time! and Id rather people asked than assumed If someone asks, it generally can mean that theyre seeing you as a person with different experiences to theirs and trying to learn, which is only a good thing. About becoming angry, one of the problems of blindness is you can feel as though your on show for someone else particularly if you are aware that someone is judging you as incompitant. just like anything else if you try to do something when your pissed off and rushing at it and concerned youll get it wrong youll be more likely to. These days Ive come to a point where I dont have to prove anything to anyone! if someone says can you get to the door? from here, Ill just tell them yes or no, I dont need to proove! I do, not for their stupid bennifit.If I had an incident with someone treating me like a child as you describe that lady Id first attempt to show politely my displeasure, mentioned I was doing a doctorate, engage her in conversation on other matters. If this didnt work (and how much I tried that would depend very much upon how pissed off I was), Id probably go for something sarcastic, but not angry.There is a big difference between controled, and centered anger, and uncontrolled anger which will be liable to make you make mistakes, and you have to learn which one is of use to you in situations. O ften simply stopping and directly confronting the person honestly can work, sinse usually people dont realize what they are doing and might occasionally feel shame when you point it out, although some people will carry on regardless sinse theyre morons. Again, why disabled people have to learn and do all this advocacy crap when everyone else can just swan through life regardless and expect to be treated at least like a human is just not fare, but there unfortunately isnt a choice.@TommI totally agree about no way to hide blindness or avoid eye contact sinse it is such a basic part of communication. One interesting fact however is when Ive been on stage performing my mum has witness some quite amusing conversation about whether I am blind or not. I personally dont care either way. When Im performing I care about the performance, my character, my singing, not about whether people work out that I have a visual imparement or not. However it is an interesting fact.Part of it might be lack of guide dog, cane or other symbols, but as you said, even without these blindness is fairly obvious, another part might be that on stage of dcourse I know what movements Im making and have practiced and thus am unlikely to need to say avoid bumping into someone, walk slowly or scan for an object if I cant see it to pick it up. The two major reasons however I tend to think are firstly, that on stage there is a huge confidence factor. several very good directors have said to me it doesnt really matter what! your doing on stage as a singer, as long as you do it with confidence that is something I am still learning and trying to bare in mind. The other fact however is one of focus, sinse if your on a stage, you dont need! to worry about communicating with people via eye contact, sinse people are already looking at and listening to you, and indeed for a singer the listening part is a good bit more important, an actor I know once said well there is a reason we call them the audience and not the vidiance, because the most crucial communication is still vocal in most productions and if youve got the voice part sorted enough you dont need to worry about the other as much this is certainly true, sinse many very tallented singers really dont! prance round the stage or dance a lot. This is something major I get from performance sinse I can use my emotional sense to empathise with and commmunicate to the audience in a very clear and distinct way, which is why as I said the chap at music school who was talking about eye contact found that if I had the right concentration while performaing I could give the impression of eye contact without doing it, though obviously this requires a huge amount of emotional sense and commitment from me, (I cant just expect to jaw out a song while thinking about what Im having for lunch an d for people to enjoy it). This does translate into social situations of course, sinse once you are! in conversation with someone and have their attention, that is the point you can start communicating and chipping away at that perception of difference. Its just a shame that unfortunately conversation in social senses
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
2014-07-28
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair You know, I was giving this a lot of thought. This might be more of a hypothetical thing since I dont think there would be any need to use this on an amusement ride, but what if there was some kind of electronic aide that alerted you when someone looked directly into your face, and then you would have to respond by looking into their eyes by using this same kind of beacon?Well, my chance to go to the fair last night ended, and I still feel like I have failed in some way because I never got a chance to record it which was partly due to my iPod running out of battery. Im really, really hoping I can go to the state fair in September. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182477#p182477 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair Well a device that allerted you when someone was seaking eye contact might help, though how scanning could determine this accurately, and how you would distinguish actual eye contact designed to start a conversation from someone simply glancing at you I dont know. Even if however it could allert you to the actions of others, there isnt a way you could respond naturally. Eye contact is not just looking at someones face there is rather more to it than that, its a far more two way business, just look at how it is described in novels like the good old lovvers eyes meeting across a crowded room thing. There is no way even if you could gather someone was seaking this that you could respond, nor I imagine after youve been alerted would you be able to respond quickly or appropriately enough to actually solve the problem. Eye contact between two sighted people is as instant and obvious as recognizing someones v oice. The one electronic solution I could! imagine is a far simpler idea dn one which wed likely see in the next few years, though whether it would gain enough cultural and social assimilation to be effective I dont know. Were already getting to the point where say an Iphone could track other Iphones in the immediate vicinity and tell you information about them. If it could give you basic name and general interest information on your screen, you coudd then phone the person and begin a conversation, which could then move into a real conversation once you moved closer into the same space. The problem of course is that this would depend entirely on the cultural acceptance of A, getting someones general details on your device and b, being able to ring them from their emediate area and request a personal conversation not be thought a creepy stalker. I suspect the second point is the one which is not going to happen, sinse while social media is extremely good at connecting people across the worldit does rather have the effect of isolating people in the same area, look at all the people who wander around crowded public places and would rather be doing skype or facebook than engaging with those around them. Indeed it seems online and offline existance is for a lot of people a very separate thing.This trend is actually a little scary in a lot of ways, but unfortunately doesnt help with social isolation in reality, indeed its rather ironic that frequently on the internet, especially in such open platforms as facebook telling someone your blind is a great way to get the cold shoulder, though interestingly enough once again if you reveal it in a group of common interest the situation is more likely to be different (one reason Ive always said indi developers are a rather nice bunch when talking about their games). This is also why I personally avoid facebook, though the amount of p iffle on the pages Id need to sift through is also a big contributing factor. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182510#p182510 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair Well, thats sounds kind of scifi to me. I just try to turn around to the persons voice and try to therefore indicate where their face is. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182511#p182511 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair When I was at carnivals in Germany where they offer rides, it is even no problem for me to board them alone. Someone boards with me, assisting me to a seat, car or whatever, and here it goes!It even happened that I was the only passenger on a ride, because nobody else wanted to board it at this time. It was no problem and pretty cool, not hearing anybody scream on the ride! However, this thing which holded me in my seat was shaking a bit and I was a bit scary that it suddenly opens, but all in all, it was amazing! The operator tried to animate me over the speakers to act crazy, but I didnt feel like it and just enjoy the ride. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182293#p182293 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair HiDark I think that has to do with the fact that when you have a dog, people see that dog, admire it partly because they see it working and doing things that seem like they are helping, and partly because they dont fully understand how the system works or just assume its an end all solution, its nearly the same way with a blind person that is accompanied by a sighted one, though of course then they can talk to and make eye contact, hand gestures, expressions etc with them.Its probably most recognizable in the fact that most people would talk to that other person before you, or even the dog before you as happens quite a bit, they also get the security of knowing someone else is dealing with it, so they dont have to worry as much about helping you, staying out of your way, wondering if you know where you are, etc.Many of the reasons may be selfish and uninformed, but in the end I think that works out better for both part ies, since people that know anything about blindness, canes, guide dogs, even simply how to be a bit suttle will approach you in a better way in almost any situation anyway. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182295#p182295 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair Hi Defender. You might be correct on the idea of a dog, however I disagree about appearance with a sighted person aiding in perception or otherwise. most sighted people will indeed interact with the sighted person rather than you, and generally ignore your existance. However this is not just a matter of eye contact, sinse it occurs with pretty much any visible disability, just check any accounts of disability literature or ask anyone who is in a wheel chair, on calipers, has a condition that interferes with their movement etc. Indeed its often called the does he take sugar syndrome.This is howevre not because the none disabled person aides communication, it is because the none disabled person provides a buffer, provides someone normal whom people can interact with. I remember for example once sitting in a theatre at a music festival on my own, and an old man talking to me as though I were a five year old and even patting me repeat edly on the shoulder like an animal needing soothing, he completely ignored the fact I said was a doctoral researcher and at university and a performer myself, indeed he seemed to be paying no attention to what I said at all. I was just about coming to the end of my reserve of politeness and was about to tell this old git to sod off, when a woman Id met in the hotel that morning at breakfast sat down on the other side of me and said hello The old scumbag, in great relief turned to her and said oh! hes with you Where upon the lady, who Id perhaps only conversed with for ten minutes replied Actually I only met him for the first time this morning, hes with himself! Credit to her, she even said later oh people like that must really be annoying! .Thats why my usual response is to t ry and get people to progress their opinions by firstly, making sure that even if I am with another sighted person, its me! they talk to, and secondly by literally learning enough about people, conversations and interactions, not to mention employing my emotional sense, to put people at ease and engage with people. This is not easy, but its a skill that anyone can learn, and sort of a necessary one for any disabled person.A dog however is different sinse people cant talk to a dog instead of you, maybe its that the dog is recognizable and admirable, and so people respond to that, I dont kno. eye contact is a hole other story. Eye contact doesnt really make as much difference when actually in conversation with people sinse then you can pickup emotional responses from others and show your own adequately. For example, one performance class I went to the tutor was very keen on the performers making eye contact with the audience, but he fo und if I was in the right frame of mind and being completely sensative to what others were feeling, I would exhibit the same openness as if I had! made eye contact. The problem is more that eye contact is used to initially form a link with someone and have permission for verbal conversation to begin, indeed this is why lots of casual environments for sighted people such as clubs and certain pubs to interact socially are extremely noisy, sinse the interactions there are all by eye contact. even in less noisey but still social environmentss such as pubs or social gatherings like parties often the permission to begin conversation is eye contact, and when you combine this with the avoidance youve got a recipe for most people to ignore you and its just bloody unfair, and disappointing. The only solution Ive found is to avoid those sorts of situations and try to engage with people only at gatherings of mutual interest or small groups where people are forced to interact with you, and after a while of being ignored peoples attitudes will change, however this still requires patience and often wont work, however once your out of school or university its really the only way to interact with anyone and perhaps make friends that is reliable so its a case of keep trying. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182300#p182300 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair Hi Defender. You might be correct on the idea of a dog, however I disagree about appearance with a sighted person aiding in perception or otherwise. most sighted people will indeed interact with the sighted person rather than you, and generally ignore your existance. However this is not just a matter of eye contact, sinse it occurs with pretty much any visible disability, just check any accounts of disability literature or ask anyone who is in a wheel chair, on calipers, has a condition that interferes with their movement etc. Indeed its often called the does he take sugar syndrome.This is howevre not because the none disabled person aides communication, it is because the none disabled person provides a buffer, provides someone normal whom people can interact with. I remember for example once sitting in a theatre at a music festival on my own, and an old man talking to me as though I were a five year old and even patting me repeat edly on the shoulder like an animal needing soothing, he completely ignored the fact I said was a doctoral researcher and at university and a performer myself, indeed he seemed to be paying no attention to what I said at all. I was just about coming to the end of my reserve of politeness and was about to tell this old git to sod off, when a woman Id met in the hotel that morning at breakfast sat down on the other side of me and said hello The old scumbag, in great relief turned to her and said oh! hes with you Where upon the lady, who Id perhaps only conversed with for ten minutes replied Actually I only met him for the first time this morning, hes with himself! Credit to her, she even said later oh people like that must really be annoying! .Thats why my usual response is to t ry and get people to progress their opinions by firstly, making sure that even if I am with another sighted person, its me! they talk to, and secondly by literally learning enough about people, conversations and interactions, not to mention employing my emotional sense, to put people at ease and engage with people. This is not easy, but its a skill that anyone can learn, and sort of a necessary one for any disabled person.A dog however is different sinse people cant talk to a dog instead of you, maybe its that the dog is recognizable and admirable, and so people respond to that, I dont kno. eye contact is a hole other story. Eye contact doesnt really make as much difference when actually in conversation with people sinse then you can pickup emotional responses from others and show your own adequately. For example, one performance class I went to the tutor was very keen on the performers making eye contact with the audience, but he fo und if I was in the right frame of mind and being completely sensative to what others were feeling, I would exhibit the same openness as if I had! made eye contact. The problem is more that eye contact is used to initially form a link with someone and have permission for verbal conversation to begin, indeed this is why lots of casual environments for sighted people such as clubs and certain pubs to interact socially are extremely noisy and prohibit real conversation, sinse the interactions there are all by eye contact and thus intended to be of a superficial level. Even in less noisey but still social environmentss such as quieter bars or social gatherings like parties often the permission to begin conversation is eye contact, and when you combine this with the common avoidance factor I previously mentioned youve got a recipe for most people to ignore you. This is bloody unfare, and dam annoying as well!The only solution Ive found is to avoid those s orts of situations and try to engage with people only at gatherings of mutual interest or small groups where people are forced to interact with you, and after a while of being ignored peoples attitudes will change, however this still requires patience and often wont work, however once your out of school or university its really the only way to interact with anyone and perhaps make friends that is reliable so its a case of keep trying or pretty much give up on other people entirely. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182300#p182300 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair I know exactly what you felt. Something similar happened to me when I was studying in Germany:read my blog post:http://lucasradaelli.com/?p=274they have never answered what I have written.It was one of the biggest humiliations that I have ever suffered. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182331#p182331 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair I dont speak german very well, but what I have understood from the people in the park, they told me that in Germany they have a law that does not allow people with disabilities ride roller coasters. Could you check this in more detail Paddy? Maybe this happens just in Freiburg URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182332#p182332 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair HiAgreed Dark, but I meant more checking to see if your okay instead of coming up to you to ask, though both things apply and I do know about the other disabilities thing too because Ive been around it.They will raise an eyebrow Is he okay?, gesture to you then the door Does he know where hes going?, point at you then the person Are you with them?, make a gesture to come here to the person whos trying to find where you want to go and doesnt know for sure, etc.Mostly its harmless but then yes, that other part of it comes into affect and thats no good, its allot of the reason why people snap their fingers or start talking to the dog, they need assurance that the dog is alert, knows where their going, basically is doing all of the work for the ablivious blind person over there so they dont have to do it.Its not excusable, but it is understandab le, also your teacher sounded pretty cool, so its good that that worked out. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182362#p182362 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair @Defender, I disagree on it being harmless, I find it quite harmful which is one reason I insist people talk to me, or at least try and get them to. On one other occasion forr example a friend and I were at the cinema (I think we were seeing one of the pirates films), and sinse wed just had a meal between us, I said Id pay back by paying for the the man behind the counter said oh so your paying for him?, I said Im paying, sinse I owe my friend some money, heres my card Where upon the man then said to my friend Can he sign? I then said excuse me, would you please mind addressing me sinse it is me who is paying if Id been feeling in a more sarcastic mood Id have turned to my friend and said can you tell him yes, I can certainly sign It is a question of convincing the person that your a compitant human beingsimilar to them rather than some weerd specimin of homo b lindus as apposed to homo sapiens With a dog I dont think your correct exact, sinse usually people dont talk to the dog in that way, its not usually saying to the dog to follow, indeed when Ive got my dog and say a member of train station staff or someone in a shop will aks me! can the dog follow? its more being able to be comfortable with the dog as a dog, saying hello, giving a pat etc, rather than the discomfort and oooh what is this weerd creature that they usually exhibit towards disabled people. as I said, this is not just true of blindness, a friend of mine who has recently started using a wheel chair says shes experienced much the same, and certainly there are enough accounts of such in the literature on disability, its just that sinse blind people dont have the eye contact thing to allow conversation to take place, the situation is somewhat exhassabated. For example, imagine t he way you would react to someone with a severe speech impediment? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182372#p182372 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair @Defender, I disagree on it being harmless, I find it quite harmful which is one reason I insist people talk to me, or at least try and get them to. On one other occasion forr example a friend and I were at the cinema (I think we were seeing one of the pirates films), and sinse wed just had a meal between us, I said Id pay back by paying for the the man behind the counter said oh so your paying for him?, I said Im paying, sinse I owe my friend some money, heres my card Where upon the man then said to my friend Can he sign? I then said excuse me, would you please mind addressing me sinse it is me who is paying if Id been feeling in a more sarcastic mood Id have turned to my friend and said can you tell him yes, I can certainly sign It is a question of convincing the person that your a compitant human beingsimilar to them rather than some weerd specimin of homo b lindus as apposed to homo sapiens With a dog I dont think your correct exact, sinse usually people dont talk to the dog in that way, its not usually saying to the dog to follow, indeed when Ive got my dog and say a member of train station staff or someone in a shop will aks me! can the dog follow? its more being able to be comfortable with the dog as a dog, saying hello, giving a pat etc, rather than the discomfort and oooh what is this weerd creature that they usually exhibit towards disabled people. as I said, this is not just true of blindness, a friend of mine who has recently started using a wheel chair says shes experienced much the same, and certainly there are enough accounts of such in the literature on disability, its just that sinse blind people dont have the eye contact thing to allow conversation to take place, the situation is somewhat exhassabated. For example, imagine t he way you would react to someone with a severe speech impediment?As I said I understand why! people treat blind people the way they do, I just think it is a severe pain in the arse and should be be countered as much as possible. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182372#p182372 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
2014-07-27
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair I just came up with a simple solution. What if we could somehow obscure our obvious disabilities in which we actually use some form of eyewear to distract the operator from looking into our real eyes. Would they give us a second look? Just imagine how much freedom we could get just by hiding our blindness. I know some of you may have a different opinion. You might feel that its not how you feel about your blindness because you want the world to know about it. For me, showing the world my blindness and hard-of-hearing is something I have to choose carefully, because I never know how someone will receive me in the end. I have one more chance to try and reboard the ride tonight before the fair closes down for another year. Now there is the state fair, which opens up in September, and lasts for two weeks and a half. Its very likely that they might have the same attractions that I went to last Thursday. All of the philosophical talk indeed makes sense, and I do wish that we could find more ways to get around situations like that. My mum told me just this morning that my dad broke one of my brothers tricycles once because my little brother (I was just a newborn) fell off of it and started crying. So, what did my dad do? He took the trike and smashed it to bits. I said, he could have just stored it a way in a place he wouldnt be able to find it. My mum said he did it only because he was protecting Adrian, but he wasnt letting him grow and expand in his personality development. He was sheltering my brother all the time. Now, when it became clear that my brother wouldnt be able to learn how to talk but I did, I became his favourite. He never hit me, never abused me in any way, yet he did so to my older little brother. So, this just shows that my father was in no way ready to accept two children who had physical disabilities, so he divorced my mum and had more kids, all of which are perfectly healthy and normal.In the end, my mum thinks that what the operator had made was simply because he felt concern and compassion, and he wanted to make sure I was safe. But at the same time, I feel that he was taking away my independence and not letting me grow maturity-wise. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182376#p182376 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair Ouch Ggf, abuse? Im sorry to learn as much whether you were a victim or just a witness either way that is bad. This is not the place however for such discussions. Regarding hiding lack of eye contact, the problem is its not really a thing to hide. Even if you ware sun glasses or have perfectly usual looking eyeballs, eye contact is a form of none verbal communication which sighted people engage in. You cant hide it when meeting people in person any more that you could hide deafness or a speech impediment without staying silent and not communicating with anyone. Frankly people need to grow up. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182386#p182386 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair Green Gables Fan, unfortunately, there is no real way to hide or obscure ones blindness from a sighted person. For one thing most of us use some sort of mobility aid be it a cane, a service dog, or sighted guide with a friend or family member so are naturally going to stand out from the crowd. If we try and do without such mobility aids we are still going to stand out because we are doubtless going to run into things, trip over things, and look like a total klutz to anyone watching. There just isnt a way to hide our blindness because by necessity we need a number of aids be it a service dog or cane that will instantly scream blind person to anyone sighted.Trying to wear sun glasses to mask our blindness is not a real solution either. It may make some people feel more comfortable with us, but it wont hide the fact we are blind. Sighted people automatically try to make eye contact and if you cant see to make eye contact, dont look into their face , whatever having glasses on or not wont make much of a difference. They are instantly going to know you are blind and dont respond to them the way a sighted person would in the same situation.to be honest the only real solution is to be your own best advocate. When someone starts saying you cant ride this or that ride ask them why they wont let you ride. If it is because of your blindness try and find out what their fears are, and explain to them how this or that can be worked out. Its a pain in the butt, but being assertive and being your own advocate is the only way to deal with the worlds biases one person at a time. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182399#p182399 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair Hi folks,I have had a simmilar problem either in an amusement park (Heidepark, Soltau, Germany).When I entered the Collossos, which is the biggest wooden roller-coaster in the entire world, we, my sister and I, were sitting in there, and when an operator noticed I am blind, he and a colleegue of him tried arguing why I shouldnt be on board this ride, due to my disability and the fact that my sister was under 18 and therefore not allowed to assist me in case of, thats what the two guys said, the ride gets stuck at a height of around 60 meters.I, however, didnt give up so easily and said: My friend, if the ride would get stuck at a height of 60 meters, I would be the only one climbing down the ladder and therefore follow the instructions given to us by you, only in case of an emergency!After my explanation, he didnt find any cons and allowed us to stay on board.At the end, there was nothing harmful, they were only kin d of scared because a nearby roller-coaster got stuck. I can understand that, but keeping in mind that a blind person would more likely be able to perform the instructions, the only problem is that not every blind person would eventually do so at the end, but at least most of them, because they do not have the ability to look downwards and therefore arent scared because of the height.Regarding their online support, I am only allowed to use selected rides, but when visiting the actual park they dont seem to know rules like these.However, in some of Northrein-Westphalias amusement parks, they dont let you board anything, even if you have an assisting sighted person with you. And that is definitely discrimination!Its okay for me to board rides with an assisting person who is sighted, that is not the problem! But refusing boarding anything no matter how many sighted people are with you, who gladly would assist you is just discrimination, a nd I would not visit such amusement parks in the first part!Regarding your matter, I recommend seeking for friends of yours who also love going on rides, boarding the ride with a second person shouldnt be the problem is first place. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182195#p182195 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
2014-07-26
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair Its a shame that those parks shouldnt change their rules. I wonder, if there was a different operator who managed the ride. Would they same the same thing about me like the previous operator? Its true that blind people can climb down ladders without being afraid of heighths, though I heard that blind people can still be afraid of heights. Still, there ought to be something to force those amusement parks to change, not just for ourselves, but for future generations to come. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182199#p182199 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair HelloPersonally I would have tried to gather more information while at the park as to whether you needed a second person because of the stance of the operator or because it was a rule for that particular ride. If it were because of the stance of the operator I worry that it may have been due to a miscommunication or lack thereof between the ride operator and your mother. The ride operator may have not understood that it was blindness and thought it to be a different disability and he/she was genuinely concerned for your safety.I hope youll update this thread when you get a response from them; Im curious to see how this turns out. I hope it was just a miscommunication or an already in place rule for that ride and not discrimination.Fortunately in my personal experience I havent had any problems with amusement parks and other places of that category. There have been times when people have expressed concern, but they are fine once I or someone e lse explains that it wouldnt be a safety risk. Ive been to quite a lot of places like this so I suppose I just got lucky. Even when I went parasailing, the guys asked if Id be okay. I said yes and just asked if they could explain what the meant about the hand positioning and leg placement. Since, if you did it wrong, you could, quite literaly be hanging by your nuts for the next fifteen-twenty minutes. The guy before me did that, and didnt come back so comfortable.Okay, Im getting off topic here. SOrry. But yes, please keep us updated on this. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182215#p182215 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair HelloPersonally I would have tried to gather more information while at the park as to whether you needed a second person because of the stance of the operator or because it was a rule for that particular ride. If it were because of the stance of the operator I worry that it may have been due to a miscommunication or lack thereof between the ride operator and your mother. The ride operator may have not understood that it was blindness and thought it to be a different disability and he/she was genuinely concerned for your safety.I hope youll update this thread when you get a response from them; Im curious to see how this turns out. I hope it was just a miscommunication or an already in place rule for that ride and not discrimination.Fortunately in my personal experience I havent had any problems with amusement parks and other places of that category. There have been times when people have expressed concern, but they are fine once I or someone e lse explains that it wouldnt be a safety risk. Ive been to quite a lot of places like this so I suppose I just got lucky. Even when I went parasailing, the guys asked if Id be okay. I said yes and just asked if they could clarify what they meant about the hand positioning and leg placement. Since, in his words, if you did it wrong, you could, quite literally be hanging by your nuts for the next fifteen-twenty minutes. The guy before me did that, and didnt come back so comfortable.Okay, Im getting off topic here. SOrry. But yes, please keep us updated on this. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182215#p182215 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair HelloPersonally I would have tried to gather more information while at the park as to whether you needed a second person because of the stance of the operator or because it was a rule for that particular ride. If it were because of the stance of the operator I worry that it may have been due to a miscommunication or lack thereof between the ride operator and your mother. The ride operator may have not understood that it was blindness and thought it to be a different disability and he/she was genuinely concerned for your safety.I hope youll update this thread when you get a response from them; Im curious to see how this turns out. I hope it was just a miscommunication or an already in place rule for that ride and not discrimination.Fortunately in my personal experience I havent had any problems with amusement parks and other places of that category. There have been times when people have expressed concern, but they are fine once I or someone e lse explains that it wouldnt be a safety risk. Ive been to quite a lot of places like this so I suppose I just got lucky. Even when I went parasailing, the guys asked if Id be okay. I said yes and just asked if they could clarify what they meant about the hand positioning and leg placement. Since, in his words, if you did it wrong, you could, quite literally be hanging by your nuts for the next fifteen-twenty minutes. The guy before me did that, and didnt come back so comfortable.Okay, Im getting off topic here. But yes, please keep us updated on this. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182215#p182215 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair Interesting topic with a situation I can honestly say Ive never faced, which is quite surprising, considering Ive ridden quite a few rather excentric things throughout my life as a guy who relishes in thrills and chills. It surprises me to find out that others have in fact gotten such treatment. Maybe the operater was having a bad day; maybe his responsibilities also included cleaning up after people once the ride was vacated, at least enough to make it presentable to the next crowd of individuals.I have this nagging suspicion though that impressions might have been playing a roll in the matter. its all about how a blind person looks to a sighted person. it seems rather strange that we should be so conscientious when dealing with the sighted world since were always advocating for our rights and the like, saying that in all reality were not any different from them. Truth is, we are different from them until we prove otherwise. Everyone loves the concept of innocent until proven guilty because it frees the person of any responsibility to prove themselves, a measure of grace for someone on either side of the coin, as long as no one can implicitly or explicitly prove with any sort of evidence be it physical or circumstancial, that said person is in fact guilty of anything. The mind doesnt work like that though, at least under most circumstances. People judge regularly without even realizing they are, which means that we are guilty until proven innocent, and acting slightly off makes us vulnerable to any sort of label or characterization or attack, and since first impressions go a very long way, were stuck with the task of making sure we dont appear anything less than normal, a concept defined by every person in his or her own way. To simplify that last statement, since I define normality different from the next person who posts here, and the followi ng person could have a completely diferent idea from either of ours on the concept of normal, we dont really ever win unless we can convince right off that being blind is not a problem. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=18#p18 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
2014-07-26
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair This is a very interesting post, and I do agree that first impressions has been a standard of practice set by Europeans a long time ago. Thats why I wanted to study abroad, to see why people behaved the way they did. I heard of a saying that states: Rules arent made to be obeyed, but rather, they are made to be broken. I contacted my former teacher of the visually-impaired, and they told me they were going to come meet with me this Monday for a consultation. Still, I feel this sense of emptiness, as if I need to go back and recapture that moment on tape so I would never forget it. Thats how I feel when I fail to get something like that recorded. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182229#p182229 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair I think nocturnus comments are very good and true to the point, however through all the research Ive done on disability relations for 7 years now for my thesis, I fear the answer is far simpler than just looking normal (whatever that means). some sighted people react to disabled people (any disability), with condescention, some with admiration, some with h contempt and hatred, most (at least in western countries), will simply react by avoidance or indifference.. all of these are absolutely genuine emotions and not unreal, however all are equally predicated on one key, idea that disabled people, be that blind, deaf, paraplegic, mentally ill or whatetever are all different in some way and must be considdered as a group to be different. Look at phrases such as the blind or the handicapped as though they are a homogenus thing.As humans were used to making category judgements, and unfortunately sighted people ma ke these all the time. people fall into one category, and the! disabled fall into another. This is a prejudice in the purist and truest sense, it is a pre-judgement, ie, as Nocturnus saidd, thinking someone is guilty before innocent. This is also one reason I am not a fan of disability pride or the blind identity sinse pushing the separateness and group identity of any group of people rather than the fact that any group is made up of individuals little different in scope from all the other individuals in society. For example, ask yourself why, when we already have olympic events for various sorts of humans, men and women, different weight classes in boxing, people who swim in different styles etc, must disabled people have a special olympics of their own rather than including say the wheel chair ball games or the blind skeers in the same schedule. All this is to say (sinse this does have a practical point), that myself su ch people as this ride operator arent exactly maliciious, so much as they simply view blind people as not falling in the usual scope of people they deal with every day. I suspect you were the first blind person to ask and the ride operator simply wanted to deal with you as little as possible, an attitude in wich a culture where people are more worried about protecting their backs from the law and regulations and so dont want to do anything to upset the boat is only going to fuel. Ive found myself that the first correct response to these situations is to deal with the person in question in as compitant, rational and coordinated a way as possible, to prove in fact that you are capable of interligent and reasoned discourse and dont just exist as some strange creature hanging off someone elses arm. Occasionally this works, aprticularly if you practice the art of conversation and various methods for getting people on side, sometimes, when pe ople are amazingly pig headed it dosnt! I recommend in my thesis that a disability advocacy group needs to be created for these situations sinse fundamentally most none disabled people have neither the inclination nor the experience to judge the correct course of action in matters concerning disability. Failing this however, if all else fails the correct response is frankly to go through the higher ranks of people involved until either a, you can talk to someone you can persuade to be reasonable, or B, you can assure yourself that nobody is prepared to be reasonable and relieve your feelings by getting right pissed off and snarky at them! Again, Ive experienced both. Frankly, this is a pain in the arse! and something else which makes the lives of any disabled people, particularly those with visible and obvious disabilities so dam difficult! if it isnt enough to have the problems of the disability itself, being constantly avoided and having to l earn to be your own advocate is just unfair! especially when you add on top all the down right negative views of disability that some people hold. The problem is there isnt another choice other than sitting at home and doing bugger all! so, if you want to go on these rides, your going to have to practice being convincing, and go through people until you find someone you can convince. Btw, As one amusing point, I find it quite funny that a blind person isnt allowed on a fixed ride that runs on a fixed track, your not driving! the thing? I also have my own answer when people start forbidding me from places due to stairs, or persuading me to use the lift, eyes not work, legs fine! I will admit Ive somtimes been tempted to give someone a right good boot up the back side and then say see? nothing wrong with the legs! . (I wouldnt actually do this, but it is something that makes me smile when repeated people thinking Im incompitant has got on my whick). Btw, oddly enough, having a guide dog actually helps quite a lot with this sinse for some odd reason people dont think your quite as useless if you have a dog. I have no idea why at all! but it is true
Discrimination at a County Fair
2014-07-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Discrimination at a County Fair Hi yall, Im writing this because I need some advice, and I need to do something about it. For once, I want to win this, and I want future people who have my circumstances to not go through what I went through. So, as we all know, the county fair every year is hosted in my city. I had gone there yesterday evening to use the ticket I had boughten on-line. http://www.bigfairfun.com/ I also looked at the complete list of rides so I could keep track of the rides I wanted to go on and which ones I had already gone in the past. However, the problem is that I can only go once a year because of budget reasons, so I have to choose which rides I want to sacrifice over others and leave those for next year, if they will still be there. Well, I was not expecting to find something that I have longed for ten years to be there at last.Im not sure if I told yall this yet, but there was a ride I was obsessed over. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitron Well, at the time when I was still a young child, I was not all particular in knowing the names of the rides that I went on, and hence I did not pay attention to them so I could research them. I was only nine at the time, plus I didnt have internet, let alone a computer to begin with. On Friday, July 2nd, 2004, my mum and I stumbled upon this interesting ride and we rode it. At the end I asked the operator what it was called, and he said it was a star ship or something. I would never forget the sensations I got when I rode it. It made me feel like I was lying down flat on the ground, when in reality I was still diagonal. Well, my mum and I got off. Im not sure if you know this, but when youre young, you cant feel any tightness in your chest than when you are an adult. Tonight I felt that. This is why my mum did not like the ride at all and she would not go on it again. Well tonight, my mum and I were walking around, looking for one ride in particular, until she happened to stumble on a ride called the Thriller. She described it as being like an astronauts house, which is like a space ship. That immediately got my attention. I knew where this was going. At last, tonight would be the day that my long-time dream would be realised, today I would have made history, and my mother agreed. She knew that I was obsessed about the ride ever since I read about it in a book that I read in 2012. You see, between 2004 and 2012, I did not even think about the ride. It was just in the back of my mind. I started growing suspicious of the ride when I researched it further, until I was absolutely certain that the ride I had heard about and the one I had been on since 2004 were exactly the same. I knew I had to do something about it. I would not rest until I found a chance to get on this ride. So, we finally went upstairs and I got inside and I walked over to the first panel to the right of the entrance. I took out my iPod and I started talking about how the Gravitron was set up, describing every texture, every move that I would soon feel. Then came the notice: My mother told me I had to get off the ride. Still recording, I reluctantly got off, asking why. My mother told me to just get off and that she would explain. I persisted until she finally told me that the operator told her I am not supposed to ride alone. All that information was enough to shatter my emotions of excitement, longing, happiness, and satisfaction to bits. First, sadness. Then sadness was taken over by anger and surprise. I tried to reason with my mum, asking why the operator thought it unsafe for me. Then she told me that they were afraid that I might get hurt. So what? Anyone else can get hurt. Were they afraid that because of my blindness,I would be more prone to get hurt than the sighted because I would not see if something happened to me, or even hear them? Maybe what they fear is being sued, but they can also be sued for discrimination against people with disabilities. I totally felt violated and more so when my mother betrayed me. She didnt take my side. She took on the side of those who told me I shouldnt ride alone. Whats wrong with that? Im twenty years old, five foot three inches, and they think that I cant be alone on this particular ride because of my blindness and hard-of-hearing? Or is there a completely different reason? I am aware that some rides require two people simply for the sake of balancing equilibrium, but I dont think that was necessary in this case. Also, I am aware that a spotter is required, even if you are completely enabled, for certain sports. What was the operator referring to when they told my mother I shouldnt be by myself? All my mother said was that there were rules, and that I should follow them. Thats when I felt betrayed. I vowed to myself and to my mother that I was not going to let them get away with it. I recorded a little bit of the words she and I had so I could use it as proof in court if I had to, but it would have been better if I could
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair Number 6 is a standard get out clause. It basically means If theres anything that happens that isnt on this list that we dont think is safe we reserve the right to say no anyway. Whether or not visual impairment comes under this heading depends on the ride specifics of course, I know little about such rides but I cant imagine a ride being so badly designed that someone as young as you were as a child could ride it but not a visually impaired adult.I heard about an incident here in the UK some time ago where someone with a visual impairment was denied access to a club on safety grounds, the staff were concerned that the person would be unable to safely navigate the stairs at the entrance. It went to court and was upheld as discrimination. This could be in a similar vein, safety concerns based in ignorance and not reality.As for your mother, try not to be too hard on her. Sure its horrible to not be supported but a lot of the t ime mothers simply dont want to make a fuss, theres little you can do about that. Dont let her hold you back either and dont be afraid to stand up to her if you really need to, just understand that this kind of engrained attitude probably isnt going to change. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182074#p182074 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair
2014-07-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discrimination at a County Fair I already sent this to the fair board. In this letter, I modified some aspects just to be on the same side. I didnt send them that fact, by eliminating my real name in this message.PLEASE FORWARD TO THE RESPECTED DEPARTMENTDear Members of the Washington County Fair Board,I am writing to inform you of a disturbing incident that I experienced whilst using your services provided by Buttler Amusements, and Id like to insure that future incidents do not happen to people with my circumstances.First of all Id like to introduce myself. My name is GGF. I am a twenty-year-old life-long U. S. citizen of a city in Oregon. I am totally blind and hard-of-hearing, though i have enough functional hearing to get through most situations.Yesterday, 24th July, at around 21:15, a family member and I were looking for a particular ride that I enquired about. Upon doing so, we stumbled on a ride that has actually held major significance to me because I had not ridden this ride since Friday, 2nd July 2004, so I was looking forward to ride the Thriller (Gravitron) as the sign proclaimed.In the year that I actually got to ride it, I was not yet old or tall enough to ride alone, so I was obliged to be accompanied by a family member. Since I was still quite young, names of the rides held no importance to me as they do now, as I am clearly an amusement ride enthusiast. In the year 2012, I happened to stumble upon this particular ride when I was doing vague research on the internet. I started growing suspicious of the rides description because it matched the description of the ride I had not been on since that day in 2004. Once I had validated that this was the same ride, I endeavoured to find every means possible to find it, even if it meant scouring the county and state fairs across the North-West.I finally got my chance to ride it yesterday, and I was looking forward to boarding it. However, the bad news came afte r I had boarded it. The same family member that had helped me before was not able to board with me, and after I had gotten off they explained to me that the operator told this family member that I should not be riding alone on this ride. According to rule no. 6, found on http://bigfairfun.com/rides-at-the-carnival.php, it states that it is always up to the ride operator to decide if it is safe for me to ride this ride. On this list i did not see any mention of the Gravitron whatsoever, so Im wondering if this was added at the last minute. Had there been such I could have used it to determine why the operator felt the ride was unsafe. After all, I met the following requirements.1. No Casts, pregnant persons, nor intoxicated individuals on rides 2. Children who measure under 36 in height cannot ride any carnival rides alone and children who measure 36 to 48 in height may only ride a few select rides 3. All riders must have either a Butler Amusements carnival ride wristband or Butler Amusements carnival ride coupons 4. Rides require 3 to 5 coupons each per rider 5. Infants are not allowed on any carnival rides My only difference that sets me apart from other individuals is that i have two physical disabilities, blindness and hard-of-hearing, but even so, that shouldnt be a problem, unless the operator fears that I would be more prone to getting hurt, which could result in a law suit. However, there can still be a law suit for discrimination, as it is against the Americans with Disabilities Act to not provide reasonable accomodations.I am also aware that there could have been a form of miscommunication. The operator could have meant that all riders must travel in pairs, regardless of age, height, disability, etc, sort of like a buddy or spotter. It could have been the fact that the misinterpretation occurred betwe en my family member with whom they talked to the operator, or it could have been the way that family member conveyed the information to me. In either case, I felt violated of my rights because of this unfair act, and I would simply like to resolve this issue so that this doesnt happen again. After all, my physical disabilities has not prevented me from boarding other rides alone.I am also aware that some rides require two people for the sake of balancing equilibrium, though I dont think this was the case on this particular ride.If you can inform me as to where this problem had occured, and whether this act was based on a wisely-made decision or based on ignorance and stupidity, Id really appreciate a response, as I had clearly experience distress while trying to sort things out.By sending this letter, I acknowledge that what I stated here is written to the best of my ability, and that I was not obliged to write this letter on behalf of someone els e other than myself. I hereby understand that once this missive has been sent, it cannot be undone, and that I am aware that this can be forwarded and passed onto other staff members.Any correspondence via writing or call
